I was walking down a street near where I live when I glanced up at a window from which the most awful lyrics were being blasted. Sat on the windowsill was a kid no older than 12 nodding his head to the beats.

The lyrics bein gsung were ...

Bitch I'ma kill you! You don't wanna fuck with me
Girls neither - you ain't nuttin but a slut to me
Bitch I'ma kill you! You ain't got the balls to beef
We ain't gon' never stop beefin I don't squash the beef
You better kill me! I'ma be another rapper dead
for poppin off at the mouth with shit I shouldn'ta said
But when they kill me - I'm bringin the world with me
Bitches too! You ain't nuttin but a girl to me
.. I said you don't, wanna fuck with Shady (cause why?)
Cause Shady, will fuckin kill you (ah-haha)
I said you don't, wanna fuck with Shady (why?)
Cause Shady, will fuckin kill you..

from The Marshall Mathers album. I think the song is 'Kill You'

If this is the kind of rubbish that is feeding the minds of young kids now, what can we expect our society to be like?

Is this an over-reaction or am I right to be appalled?

I like Eminem (one of the only rappers I like) but I don't like all of his stuff. I respect him as an artist. A lot of sings like that are just album fillers.

um, if you think music influences kids to grow up and kill you.. you're too close-minded. also, if kids ARE influenced then there's something wrong with them. I blame it on the parents. Although eminem does suck

um, if you think music influences kids to grow up and kill you.. you're too close-minded. also, if kids ARE influenced then there's something wrong with them. I blame it on the parents. Although eminem does suck

I do not think that there is a likelyhood of kids growing up and killing someone but what of the language and the sentiments? Is it healthy to see this as acceptable 'entertainment' in our culture? Are these healthy cultural messages to be promoted on MTV and the like?

Is it unhealthy?

Why do you care so much? You don't have to listen to it if you don't want.

I think the MTV-Culture is in fact unhealthy and portrays a mostly unreal view of the world.
If you DON'T think kids are influenced, then you're naive.


Ever read/watched High Fidelity?
All those songs of heartbreak, sadness, hate... affect children someway or another.
Same on promiscuity...
Want to blame teenage preganancy on something? Blame it on the role of sex in the media.

If you cared to memorize that passage, Eminem is good for something!

Well, some 20 yr. olds like Eminem. That means you can't really get rid of him without offending the population over 18 :p

I have a question..

You knew who you were hearing. You 'memorized' a lot of the lyrics. You knew the album. You knew the song title.

How?

I can take a shory lyric from a song and enter it into www.leoslyrics.com and find out the title and artist.

The problem is not with Eminem, rather with those ignorant and impressionable morons who would actually take his shit seriously. He has a right to sing/rap what he wants, surely some of us might not appreciate the "subtlety" of his works, but obviously millions do. The parents have a role in our society; we seem to always have a scapegoat for our inaction. We are raising our kids in front of a TV set, not teaching them what is necessary like basic morals, values, and the ideas of tolerance, and acceptance. It's a real shame that just anyone can have a kid.

awwww, it's a love song!

beautiful
*sniff*
just beautiful.

Want to blame teenage preganancy on something? Blame it on the role of sex in the media.


Yeah, the budding hormones and the pressure to get laid early in life has nothing to do with it. The ego and pride of the guy to not wear a condom is all MTV influenced.

Sex is bad

Sex is poo poo.

Is this an over-reaction

Yes

am I right to be appalled?

Yes.

some of Eminems stuff is crap, but most pop and most rap singers dont have ANY good songs, eminem actually has enough good ones that we can excuse the crap

Is this an over-reaction or am I right to be appalled?

Can I ask you a question? How is these lyrics, which center around violence any different than say an action or horror flick? Other than the action and horror flicks have realistic scenes to accompany the ideas protrayed. How is it different than a book with violence written in it? Music can create emotion that books and movies cannot...but the ideas expressed in that song I have seen in print and in a movie before.

What is it that makes your blood boil or your temperature rise ---automatically or as a reflex or reaction to that song as if it is a new idea? Or do you get that way about certain books and movies too?

Can I ask you a question? How is these lyrics, which center around violence any different than say an action or horror flick? Other than the action and horror flicks have realistic scenes to accompany the ideas protrayed. How is it different than a book with violence written in it? Music can create emotion that books and movies cannot...but the ideas expressed in that song I have seen in print and in a movie before.

What is it that makes your blood boil or your temperature rise ---automatically or as a reflex or reaction to that song as if it is a new idea? Or do you get that way about certain books and movies too?

This argument is hilarious. You are saying that because other media pushes 'evil' ideas and messages and that has been accepted by society, we should be tolerant of any new vehicle of evil and hatred as long as it still falls under the catagory 'entertainment' because to do otherwise would be hypocritical.

Music and media tends to reflect the moods of society because there is a motivation to sell it ( supply and demand). Those marketing 'music and media' are exploiting this societies fragmented state. Ironically music like Eminem's is being listened to because people feel 'united' in their choas and fragmentation when they hear it.
I think it is dangerous to dwell on such music or messages. It leads to apathy about the real issues such as the divorce rate, fatherless kids, gang mentality etc. If other media is presented in an exploitative way it too has my contempt.

So, I was staying in a hotel room once and happened to find a book -- one I later discovered is the best selling book of all time -- in the drawer. So I flipped it open and read:

"Suppose you hear in one of the towns the LORD your God is giving you that some worthless rabble among you have led their fellow citizens astray by encouraging them to worship foreign gods. In such cases, you must examine the facts carefully. If you find it is true and can prove that such a detestable act has occurred among you, you must attack that town and completely destroy all its inhabitants, as well as all the livestock. Then you must pile all the plunder in the middle of the street and burn it. Put the entire town to the torch as a burnt offering to the LORD your God. That town must remain a ruin forever; it may never be rebuilt. Keep none of the plunder that has been set apart for destruction. Then the LORD will turn from his fierce anger and be merciful to you. He will have compassion on you and make you a great nation, just as he solemnly promised your ancestors. "The LORD your God will be merciful only if you obey him and keep all the commands I am giving you today, doing what is pleasing to him." (Deuteronomy 13:13-19 NLT)

And frankly, I was appalled. Who lets their children read this filth? Killing and burning down towns because a few residents have different faiths? Just awful. Are there no standards anymore? Clearly, we should ban the book.

Josh

Is this an over-reaction or am I right to be appalled?

Seeing as you're a humourless, oversensitive little bitch, your reaction is appropriate to your nature.

All those songs of heartbreak, sadness, hate... affect children someway or another.

Am I missing something here? Life would be painless (and painless is good!) if it wasn't for the damn media! Why, before we had MTV we never composed performences about warfare, loss, sorrow and hatred! I mean there was the Illiad, and the Eddas, and Beowulf, and the Tristan romance and the plays of Euripides, Shakespeare and Sophocles, nor was there the opera Carmen or La Boheme, or...oh wait.

Want to blame teenage preganancy on something?

I'd settle just for knowing what in fuck "preganancy" is.

I guess "preganancy" is another word for "performences", Xev.

Oh go pick on someone your own size.

Plus; those plays/books aren't thrown at children in packages even an Idiot can understand.

Seeing as you're a humourless, oversensitive little bitch, your reaction is appropriate to your nature.

This is unnacceptable from a moderator.
I was presenting a common view but alledgedly from my own standpoint.
I knew when i posted the topic it may cause strong reaction but it was the strong reaction I was interested in. I wanted to know why he was 'popular'. Why people would defend him and his work. Strong reaction is one thing. Out and out flaming is another.

Unless that is dealt with I will come to the conclusion that this board is poorly moderated ( less than poorly) and I shall not be posting again.

This forum is Art and Culture. Eminem is part of our culture. To discuss his work is entirely fitting here no matter what your opinion of him is. Free speech.

So, I was staying in a hotel room once and happened to find a book -- one I later discovered is the best selling book of all time -- in the drawer. So I flipped it open and read:

"Suppose you hear in one of the towns the LORD your God is giving you that some worthless rabble among you have led their fellow citizens astray by encouraging them to worship foreign gods. In such cases, you must examine the facts carefully. If you find it is true and can prove that such a detestable act has occurred among you, you must attack that town and completely destroy all its inhabitants, as well as all the livestock. Then you must pile all the plunder in the middle of the street and burn it. Put the entire town to the torch as a burnt offering to the LORD your God. That town must remain a ruin forever; it may never be rebuilt. Keep none of the plunder that has been set apart for destruction. Then the LORD will turn from his fierce anger and be merciful to you. He will have compassion on you and make you a great nation, just as he solemnly promised your ancestors. "The LORD your God will be merciful only if you obey him and keep all the commands I am giving you today, doing what is pleasing to him." (Deuteronomy 13:13-19 NLT)

And frankly, I was appalled. Who lets their children read this filth? Killing and burning down towns because a few residents have different faiths? Just awful. Are there no standards anymore? Clearly, we should ban the book.

Josh

A couple things about the Bible:

It is the word of God, but written by humans....multiple ones by hundreds of years apart. It has also been translated a lot, so much of the original meaning is lost/blurred.

Jesus basically rebukes the OT multiple times. I'm too lazy to look up passages right now, but the one gospel where he replaces all the commandments with one is an example.

Also, you have to think of the time the Old Testament was written. At that time, all the gods in all religions were violent, vengeful, all powerful gods. The Jews, like the pagans, thought of their God as that too. When the New Testament was written and Jesus' message spread, Jews and Christians viewed God as a loving, forgiving God.

so the good stuff is "god's work through man" and the nasty and questionable bits are just "proof that man's an imperfect vessel"? do I have that right?

that's pretty convenient.

Young - Sure, the meaning's changed. All the same, you can't deny that the Israelites spend the better part of the Old Testament killing heathens or being killed by heathens.

Hell, what's the first two things people do when they get to earth? They fuck, then they kill.

Also, Jesus has no problem goin' Ike Turner on a buncha people just tryin' to make a buck.

Young - Sure, the meaning's changed. All the same, you can't deny that the Israelites spend the better part of the Old Testament killing heathens or being killed by heathens.

Hell, what's the first two things people do when they get to earth? They fuck, then they kill.

Also, Jesus has no problem goin' Ike Turner on a buncha people just tryin' to make a buck.

There is a difference between robbing a bank and doing what Jesus did. Jesus didn't needlessly kill people, he rather used his anger righteously in holding the tradition that buisness should not be conducted in a sacred place.

Also, many people (including myself) believe that much of the OT is more metaphorical/story more than fact. I take the meanings of the stories, which, even then, aren't needless killing. There are reasons and, if you want to dig deeper, a positive message. However, if you only see the word "kill", then you'll get a negative meaning.

so the good stuff is "god's work through man" and the nasty and questionable bits are just "proof that man's an imperfect vessel"? do I have that right?

that's pretty convenient.

Really, I said that? Or are you one of those white gothic boys who hates their parents?

No, I believe that it is the word of God. Everything is written in their by human hands. However, the books of the Bible were, for the most part, written for a particular group of people. They were never meant to be read and understood world wide. Which is why it is important to get the whole story and take a whole meaning and a more metaphorical approach then a factual/literal approach, especially with the Old Testament and Revelations.

...
Also, Jesus has no problem goin' Ike Turner on a buncha people just tryin' to make a buck.

Lol you make it out like He was mad cos they were 'earnin a buck'. He was mad because of all places they were doing it was in His Father's house. The market traders represented all that was bad with religion i.e the Pharisees walking around rich from their profits and subjecting the ordinary folk to misery through religous laws and stuff.
He was mad at what was happening to His Father's House! Both spiritually and physically. Thats why he flipped his nut and turned over the stalls. He was demostrating on a much wider issue that the market traders!
For the record he also called the Pharisees a 'brood of vipers'

The only Eminem is still around is because he has body guards.

[QUOTE=c20H25N3o]This is unnacceptable from a moderator.[QUOTE]

The Anti-Xev thread is not this one. This is the anti-Eminem one. Please ask for directions if you are lost ;)

Xev
Why, before we had MTV we never composed performences about warfare, loss, sorrow and hatred! I mean there was the Illiad, and the Eddas, and Beowulf, and the Tristan romance and the plays of Euripides, Shakespeare and Sophocles, nor was there the opera Carmen or La Boheme, or...oh wait.

Ya know, at times you impress me with your intellectual insights then, at times like this, I'm left confused - what are you fuq'n saying here? :confused:

EDIT: I personally think Eminem is one of the most brilliant artists of our time.

A couple things about the Bible:

It is the word of God, but written by humans....multiple ones by hundreds of years apart. It has also been translated a lot, so much of the original meaning is lost/blurred.

Jesus basically rebukes the OT multiple times. I'm too lazy to look up passages right now, but the one gospel where he replaces all the commandments with one is an example.

Also, you have to think of the time the Old Testament was written. At that time, all the gods in all religions were violent, vengeful, all powerful gods. The Jews, like the pagans, thought of their God as that too. When the New Testament was written and Jesus' message spread, Jews and Christians viewed God as a loving, forgiving God.

you have your facts wrong. Jesus SPECIFICALLY HIMSELF SAID THAT HE DID NOT COME TO UNDO OR "REBUKE" THE OT.

A couple things about the Bible:

It is the word of God, but written by humans....multiple ones by hundreds of years apart. It has also been translated a lot, so much of the original meaning is lost/blurred.

Let me guess. Somehow the good parts came through clear as crystal while the bad parts were "blurred."

Jesus basically rebukes the OT multiple times. I'm too lazy to look up passages right now, but the one gospel where he replaces all the commandments with one is an example.

Did he also issue an apology for all the violence done at the request of the OT God?

Also, you have to think of the time the Old Testament was written. At that time, all the gods in all religions were violent, vengeful, all powerful gods. The Jews, like the pagans, thought of their God as that too. When the New Testament was written and Jesus' message spread, Jews and Christians viewed God as a loving, forgiving God.

Ahhh, yes. It never ceases to amaze me how Christians pour over their book -- finding symbolism, allegory, and insight at every turn. Then, when it comes to popular culture, suddenly everything must be taken literally.

As per your assertion that the Old Testament must be read with an open mind toward metaphor... I suppose if one reads Mein Kamph looking for a good message buried beneath the layers of prejudice and hate, one might be able to unearth a positive line or two. That doesn't make a good book.

Selective reading is a marvelous tool, is it not?

I don't particularly dig Eminem, but I don't begrudge him the right to create whatever he wants to create and I certainly wouldn't read his lyrics like a Christian reviewer might, compiling each curse word and obscenity without respect to emphasis, irony, hyperbole, etc. I find it odd that Christians want a book like the Old Testament, which is filled with more killing, rape, and incest than any Eminem album, to be accepted completely, but yet they throw fits about how simple <i>exposure</i> to such things perverts young minds. Well, newsflash: If the <i>complete</i> Bible were made into a film, word for word, it would earn an NC-17 rating in the first five minutes.

Josh

Let me guess. Somehow the good parts came through clear as crystal while the bad parts were "blurred."




Why are you asking the same question.

As far as pop culture goes, I hate Eminem, not because he is a homophobic or his politics or whatever, but he is one in a long steady line of rappers that is cheapening the term of hip hop by rapping over the same beat time and time again with little variation in diversity. As far as rap goes, I like creative stuff like some Jay-Z, Beasite Boys, Public Enemy, Cypress Hill, Jurassic 5, Run DMC, and The Roots, to name a few.

I know many people, regardless of spiritual beliefs, that would say pop culture has no real depth. Maybe you need to give me a definition of pop culture.

By the way, I love how you make assumptions that I'm narrow minded.



How bout another group of violent powerful people: Greek and Roman gods. How many of these have appeared in science and folk lores, movies, music, etc...? And do we not take morals from then, regardless of if they actually happened, based off a true story, or have people kileld in them?

are you one of those white gothic boys who hates their parents?

gothic? erm... no. hate my parents? again, erm... no. I can't really see how my question about the selective interpretation of the bible that modern christians tend toward would lead you to those conclusions.

Anyway, what has caused more damage, killing, prejudice, war and mayhem throughout history than the bible? If you want models of tolerance and love to pervade the media I'd think the first book you'd toss on the bonfire would be the bible.

c20H25N3o,

Marshall asked a question ealier that I was wondering about myself and since you didn't reply I thought I'd ask it again.

I have a question..

You knew who you were hearing. You 'memorized' a lot of the lyrics. You knew the album. You knew the song title.

How?

so, what is it, photographic memory? or more likely, you made up a story to try to give your point more impact.

just curious.

This argument is hilarious.

It wasn't an argument. It was a question for you. So I could understand where you were coming from....don't be so thinned skin bud.

Ahhh, yes. It never ceases to amaze me how Christians pour over their book -- finding symbolism, allegory, and insight at every turn. Then, when it comes to popular culture, suddenly everything must be taken literally.
Josh

Good point. But probaby best to say some Christians.

Why are you asking the same question.

Because you didn't answer it the first time.

As far as pop culture goes, I hate Eminem, not because he is a homophobic or his politics or whatever, but he is one in a long steady line of rappers that is cheapening the term of hip hop by rapping over the same beat time and time again with little variation in diversity. As far as rap goes, I like creative stuff like some Jay-Z, Beasite Boys, Public Enemy, Cypress Hill, Jurassic 5, Run DMC, and The Roots, to name a few.

I know many people, regardless of spiritual beliefs, that would say pop culture has no real depth. Maybe you need to give me a definition of pop culture.

Exactly. Pop culture is subjective... just like the multitude of Biblical interpretations offered over the years. You find value where you look for it. Pop culture is an elastic term, and generalizing about its "lack of depth" is pointless and selective. Is Eminem besmirching the good name of hip-hop? Maybe. You're free to believe that. But let's say "pop culture" includes Radiohead, the films of Stanley Kubrick, and the comedy of George Carlin -- all of which I find quite insightful and engaging. No real depth? Nah, it just depends on where you look.

Arguably the Bible has entered pop culture as well, especially now that Mel Gibson seems to have effectively transformed Jesus into a blockbuster celluloid icon. So, does the Bible lack "depth" by virtue of its association with "pop culture"?

By the way, I love how you make assumptions that I'm narrow minded.

Well, my young padawan, it's so very easy when you toss us softballs like:

Really, I said that? Or are you one of those white gothic boys who hates their parents? No, I believe that it is the word of God. Everything is written in their [sic] by human hands. However, the books of the Bible were, for the most part, written for a particular group of people. They were never meant to be read and understood world wide. Which is why it is important to get the whole story and take a whole meaning and a more metaphorical approach then a factual/literal approach, especially with the Old Testament and Revelations.

An expertly crafted non-answer, topped off by a nice ad hominem.

The question posed to you - twice - was how does one judge different parts of the Bible worthy of metaphorical interpretation and others not? You seem quite ready to interpret the violent OT passages as somehow allegorical or symbolic, but I wonder what you might say if I were to assert that the <i>entire Bible</i> is metaphor, and thus Jesus never really existed, the whole narrative is a symbolic fable, and Christianity is no more than a popular myth. Assuming you believe Jesus really lived, died, and rose again, how do you decide that violent passages in the OT are <i>not</i> to be taken literally, but other passages are?

If, however, you do believe the whole Bible is metaphor, my apologies.

How bout another group of violent powerful people: Greek and Roman gods. How many of these have appeared in science and folk lores, movies, music, etc...? And do we not take morals from then [sic], regardless of if they actually happened, based off a true story, or have people kileld in them?

I'm not exactly sure what point you're trying to make here. Are you arguing that we <i>do</i> take our morals from Greek and Roman gods? And is that supposed to be some kind of vindication of the Christian God? The fact that we've copied the bad behavior of other deities and fictional characters makes the OT OK? I'm not sure that bolsters your argument, bro.

Josh

Good point. But probaby best to say some Christians.

Point well taken. Thanks for calling me on that one.

Josh

Why, before we had MTV we never composed performences about warfare, loss, sorrow and hatred! I mean there was the Illiad, and the Eddas, and Beowulf, and the Tristan romance and the plays of Euripides, Shakespeare and Sophocles, nor was there the opera Carmen or La Boheme, or...oh wait.

Ya know, at times you impress me with your intellectual insights then, at times like this, I'm left confused - what are you fuq'n saying here?

It's sarcasm. If you're usually impressed by his intellectual insight, I'm surprised you didn't get what he's saying here. It's directed towards those that say MTV is evil and the artists that spout off bad things are as well. Those that think MTV is the anti-Christ, act as if this is a first-time situation and has never happened before. They look down upon rappers that talk about violence as well as violence in the news yet when it comes to "classical works of art", they do the same thing yet have no problem with it.

While Xev's post was a bit harsh, I don't blame him for it, heh. When it comes to short-sightedness and other things that people should be able to comprehend yet aren't able to, I sometimes blow my lid in disbelief. It's like.. WTF? And well, those that think violence in enterainment is something new is well.. one of those types.

- N

While Xev's post was a bit harsh, I don't blame him for it, heh.

I have no problem with people vehemently defending Eminem. It is what I wanted.
What I have a problem with is people being rude and turning a debating forum into a flame war.
I am interested in what Eminem means in our culture, I am not interested in someone calling another a 'sensitive little bitch.' especially when the person making personal remarks is supposed to be responsible in part for the conduct of other users and for upholding the rules of the forums in general.
What example does it set. How is anybody supposed to side with the poster's point of view if they think a flame war will result because of their 'views'.
I love debate. I am happy to put opposing views to my own in a thread in the interest of debate. It is a common debating technique.
For the record I think 'Stan' is one of the most poignant songs written and I love it. I just wanted to present the view of those who believe his style and lyrics to be detrimental to the collective mindset of society in general in the interest of debate. There are a lot of these people about.
Please Xev, you do have a lot of interesting thought provoking stuff to add to debates such as these. Just stick to the rules huh and more people may join in and make it more interesting for everyone. Will you apologise and continue your points. Comon it aint that hard.
Incidentally I am very thick skinned and had an ordinary poster made such a comment I would have ignored it and dealt with the subsequent points which were made because they were intuitive and carried insight. However my issue is because Xev is a moderator and should know better.

peace

c20 :m:

YoungWriter - how can you criticize Eminem for rapping over the same beat, and say you like the Beastie Boys? "Ch-Ch-Check It Out" doesn't deviate from the Beasties' pattern in any way. On the other hand, "Tonite" is a real slow, laid-back almost lullaby-type song, whereas something like "White America" is a faster, pissed-off song.

JustARide - re: Mein Kampf. Not much of a difference between Lebensraum and the Promised Land, either.

c20H25N3o and others - hey, I agree. The Pharisees needed a beating. But a.) he did it to fulfill an obligation to God, which is the same reason the Israelites were willing to go to war to seize the holy land. and b.) how are the money changers and temple vendors any different than guys pumpin' out the Left Behind books, or for that matter, Mel Gibson?

YoungWriter - how can you criticize Eminem for rapping over the same beat, and say you like the Beastie Boys? "Ch-Ch-Check It Out" doesn't deviate from the Beasties' pattern in any way. On the other hand, "Tonite" is a real slow, laid-back almost lullaby-type song, whereas something like "White America" is a faster, pissed-off song.



Of course I'm having the opinion of never having to listen to a full album of Eminem or D12, but I have heard some 20 or more songs of his.

Sure, the new Beastie song doesn't differentiate from the standard beastie boys stuff, but you have to know the Beastie Boys a little bit better than that.

Like Marshall, the Beastie Boys rely on their vocal ability to get and remain popular. What many people DON'T know about them is that they are extremely talented musicians as far as guitar, bass, keys, etc... goes as well. They released an album entirely full of instrumentals called "The in sound from the way out" in '96. I personally know many people at least appreciated the Beastie Boys after that one. "Paul's Botique" is chock full of samples, not so much re-writing the words and putting a hip hop drum beat over it (like the new Nelly and Justing Timberlake song that uses "Back in Black"), but really making it a unique art form. The first album, "License to Ill", is still the best selling hip hop album at over 9 million units (Eminem has come close, but he hasn't beat them yet).


I'm not debating Marhsall's talent as a rapper, because he is definately a good MC. I just can't stand his lyrics, his beats, or anything about him. I still need to see 8 mile though, because I've heard its real good.

Oh yeah, and he's a jerk for not letting Weird Al make a music video :D

I've heard the Beastie Boys' instrumental. It's great. That doesn't change that by and large, their shit sounds exactly the same.

And I don't know why you'd want to see 8 Mile if you dislike Eminem, since it's basically a roman a clef of his life.

Question: I heard the freestyle battles in the movie were real. This is one of my favorite aspects of hip hop. Are they really? Hell, my religion teacher liked the film and I wouldn't call her a real hip hop person.

I'm interested in seeing it because it was critically praised as a good film. I like two songs: Stan (though I like the Grammy version infintely more than any other) and I used to like "lose yourself" for some reason...they're all a bit different for him. However, all the other songs I've heard that stray from Eminem's typical style (like the one where he sings the chorus) either don't impress me or seems like he's trying real hard for it instead of doing what comes natural. I also can't stand the new D-12 song just because the way he sings the chorus has got to be one of the most annyoing ways to sing, period.

they all do past three pages

thats another good word

yip

that word is wkd styleé haha slants.

I don´t know what people in this thread are complaining about. Just because Eminem propagades a bit of hate in his songs? He is just a mirror of our society. And there are cases that are far worse than Eminem. :p

yes, like you.
you represent the overwhelming pressure to conform you ************************************************** ************************************************** ************************************************** ********************************************
"that is why i am your king" (king arthur, Monty Python and the Holy Grail)

Yeah, cite from other people.

"You wanna get closer and get a taste
of death? I know ya wanna fuck me down
til' I'm bleeding red. I couldn't care less,
I'll end up rotting in mud, so c'mon mothafucka
and gimme yer best shot.

You really thought you'd see through what
I am and what I need, we are children of
rebellion, we'll fight, we'll bleed.
Don't try to come to preach over us and
over me, we're children of decadence, we're
right, we're real, we will fight, we'll bleed,
we're mothafucking dying breed, we're dying...

All wrecked and fucked I wonder if this is the way
I'm supposed to go. But that is all I ever got, that
is all I'll ever get, so I just let it go.."

Children of Bodom, children of decadence

I knew when i posted the topic it may cause strong reaction but it was the strong reaction I was interested in. I wanted to know why he was 'popular'. Why people would defend him and his work. Strong reaction is one thing. Out and out flaming is another.

That was not a flame. Please, if you are to use a word, do use it appropriately.
People defend Eminem either because they like his music or because they realize that to place ourselves under the heels of the petty and oversensitive is to commit cultural suicide. Your type would have picketed Oedipus Rex and boycotted Anna Karinina. You are weaklings who project your stupidity onto others.

Not to say that the average Eminem fan feels him to be a witty satirist of social conditions. However, what you represent is embarassing.

George Carlin calls it the "pussification of America". You emphatically renounce any form of expression that reflects the violence, sickness and downright ugliness of life. This is by no means an aestetic judgement on your part, but a simple need to support the status quo.

Ironically, you are just as much a part of it as Eminem. You support Eminem just as he supports you - he is the effigy you attack, your product just as he is yours. The more you attack, the more he sells records. The more he sells records, you attack him.

Tipper Gore trashes Trent Rezner's "big man with a gun", Lynne Cheney trashes "my name is". As Veblen notes in his "Theory of the Leisure Class", they perform women's traditional role as impotent enforcers.

I do not know your gender. Unsuprising if you are physically male, as the feminine role has expanded as the bourgoise has expanded. The need to offend you grows as you become more vocal, and yet the Eminem fan does not realize that he is as impotent a subversive as you are as an enforcer.

The lines never change, because you balance each other out.

I agree with you xev.

And I somehow like this quote:

"pussification of America"

That´s a good term I think.

To support my thesis, I note that there's little in Eminem that is offensive.

Is he violent? So are most of our cinematic offerings.
Is he profane? So are most songs.
Is he homophobic? So is the very institutional fabric of American religion, so are all American marital laws.
Is he misogynistic? So is almost any music video in which women are the wiggling ass in the background, incohate and impersonal. I daresay this is most music videos.

But you don't notice this, do you? Eminem's your whipping boy, that you may enjoy the rest without any icky self-knowledge.

Thank you Xev. That was an intelligent well constructed argument and made interesting reading. Perhaps the flame word was wrong, hey I dont know everything!
I dont want to dwell on it but do you think your opener was appropriate for a Mod? Yes or No?

I dont want to dwell on it but do you think your opener was appropriate for a Mod? Yes or No?

Not that again!

C20:
I have no problem with people vehemently defending Eminem. It is what I wanted.
What I have a problem with is people being rude and turning a debating forum into a flame war.
I am interested in what Eminem means in our culture, I am not interested in someone calling another a 'sensitive little bitch

Fine, epicene.

Eminem is both a mouthpiece and a whipping boy- to the pubesenct WASP he is a mouthpiece and because of this, the WASP mother uses him as whipping boy to take out her frustrations on since its always easier to blame others than oneself.

To boot, its no secret our average white boy has come to define machismo as something 'black' or 'ghetto', and so we enter into an identiy crisis where his attempts are seen as awkward or alien- Caucasoids, legend has it, lack soul.

Emminem happens to do it well- hence, he becomes the mouthpiece where Vanilla Ice and Jon B. were only embarrassing reminders. This is what he means to our culture- he's a pink elephant.

Youngwriter:
It is the word of God, but written by humans....multiple ones by hundreds of years apart. It has also been translated a lot, so much of the original meaning is lost/blurred.
It amazes me how people love blaming God's clearly defined case of schizophrenic syphyllisis- induced dementia to the amount of time it took to write both Testaments.
Also, you have to think of the time the Old Testament was written. At that time, all the gods in all religions were violent, vengeful, all powerful gods.

Yet here we are sinlgling out an aneimic piece of asshole named Emimem as violent?

The Toltecs would rip a beating heart straight out of your thorax.
Emminem sings about popping pussies.
And you people are getting worked up over the latter?

I also can't stand the new D-12 song just because the way he sings the chorus has got to be one of the most annyoing ways to sing, period.

I hated the song at first too, but you HAVE to see the video. Some songs are just meant to be seen with a video. He sings the chorus in an annoying way on purpose if you just listen to the lyrics or watch the video (since visually it's easier). If you watch the video to "My Band", you'll laugh your ass off because it's all so true.

- N

I hated the song at first too, but you HAVE to see the video. Some songs are just meant to be seen with a video. He sings the chorus in an annoying way on purpose if you just listen to the lyrics or watch the video (since visually it's easier). If you watch the video to "My Band", you'll laugh your ass off because it's all so true.

- N

I've seen it. Britney Spears videos on mute > "My Band" video

No, sorry ya'll, I just can't stand him.

Britney Spears videos on mute

LoL, hope ya don't run outta KY.

- N

Question: I heard the freestyle battles in the movie were real. This is one of my favorite aspects of hip hop. Are they really? Hell, my religion teacher liked the film and I wouldn't call her a real hip hop person.

I'm interested in seeing it because it was critically praised as a good film. I like two songs: Stan (though I like the Grammy version infintely more than any other) and I used to like "lose yourself" for some reason...they're all a bit different for him. However, all the other songs I've heard that stray from Eminem's typical style (like the one where he sings the chorus) either don't impress me or seems like he's trying real hard for it instead of doing what comes natural. I also can't stand the new D-12 song just because the way he sings the chorus has got to be one of the most annyoing ways to sing, period.

They might be, but I would doubt it, just because it seems unlikely that they could get 'em in one take, and if they can't get 'em in one take, than it's not a freestyle, per se.

And yeah, "My Band" is an atrocious song, as is D-12, in general.

rap ewww.. *shudders* *shudders again* *and again* *tries to stop shuddering but cant*