Don't be mislead by Far Lefties claims of Fascism and Nazism arousing its ugly head again. The recent resurgence in France of Le Pen's far right party in a direct threat to the Presidency is down to the democratic vote of the people of France. They have simply had enough of outrageous immigration and Brussels bungling in what they see, rightly, as French affairs. Here in Britain, last night, we had local Council Elections - in some regions there emerged new Councillors from the British National Party, another far right organisation. Democracy hath reared its ugly head!! The people have spoken through the ballot box and declared WE HAVE HAD ENOUGH! The far left have had it their own way for about 30 years, with their pathetic "political correctness" and democracy rules as long as it agrees with their own version! Now that the people of Burnley and elsewhere have elected far right representatives it is a clear message to the socialist government that they are no longer "happy" to have Britain flooded with immigrants of illegal or otherwise status. The "white person" in Britain has been second class for years - until EVERYONE is treated exactly the same, this result will grow and grow and fester until.......... All we ask is that we can have our country back - is that too much to ask? My own politics are pretty much middle of the road but one thing I do protect is my democratic right to vote for whom I please. The left whingers are crying now that their own version of democracy is in danger - so the lies and innuendoes will now flow.....

Wait up a second the bnp is nothing more then the voice of the skinhead, lets not be fooled into voting the next hitler into power!

My politics are quite left wing mixed with a few "righty" sentiments (new labour?) ;)

Xev's signature mentions the "Straw Man" argument... most of the arguments against so-called "Right Wing" policies are based along those lines.

As soon as Racism rears it's ugly head, people stop thinking about what the person is saying. Instead, they take hold of a few words and refuse to hear any more.

On the flip side, it's unfortunate that political parties emerging along the lines of "right-wing" policies tend to attract a lot of militant brain dead proles - by association, the party also becomes one of them.

Being on the right isn't a bad thing. Being on the left isnt bad either. Often times a country needs to alternate between the two, to make some progress. Take a look at Canada for example; the liberals have been in power for more than 12 years. As a result, Canada has sunk quite a bit in the wealth area. This would not be if there was slightly more fiscal prudency in the government. Just recently they spent 100 million on two luxury jets. 25 million $$ was spent on a health website. The computers used to build that (high end) are now in storage collecting dust.

Now I don't agree AT ALL with la pen and his racist views. He's just another jorg haider as far as I'm concerned. It's okay if you want to tighten immigration for the very wellbeing of a countries' inhabitants, but not to keep out different ethnicities.

Right is on the rise all over the world. This isn't neccesarily a bad thing until fascists get in to power. left has ruled for a long time and things are a bit offbalance.

I have views on both sides: education and health are very important, but so is military in maintining the world balance of power. Seniles like Hussein won't walk out of office with a smile on their face. It's far too naive to believe the world is ready for disarmament.

Now if only Canada had a moderate party....that would be the way to go. When I'm old and senile, I plan to form the Canada General Interest Party. Anyways I gotta go to school.......

Originally posted by Benji
Wait up a second the bnp is nothing more then the voice of the skinhead, lets not be fooled into voting the next hitler into power!

My politics are quite left wing mixed with a few "righty" sentiments (new labour?) ;)

If the BNP, of which the left is so scared, is the voice of the skinhead - then your "new" labour is the voice of anarchy - May Day - London - yes?? I know which I would prefer! By the way, I don't and didn't!!

Hmm... If Hitler were alive today, he'd be dead again in 2 seconds if I had any say in it. :mad: +:D = my current expression.

Nice post Elbaz. In WW2 we had the "best" politician in the best job, irrespective of party. Surely we could do the same in peacetime too? If a person is suitable to do a specific job in Government, he would not be able to do it if his party was in "opposition" - pillocks!

Originally posted by Red Devil


If the BNP, of which the left is so scared, is the voice of the skinhead - then your "new" labour is the voice of anarchy - May Day - London - yes?? I know which I would prefer! By the way, I don't and didn't!!

Nailing my own colours to the mast - I an dead centre; leaning left(ish) but I also recognise the will of the people - the far left hate democracy - it screws up their anarchistic plans!!

Originally posted by Red Devil
The "white person" second class ....

An oxymoron if I ever heard one!!!

Originally posted by The Metatron


An oxymoron if I ever heard one!!!

Look! Just because I am thick and breath oxygen does not make me an oxymoron!!!!

Racism is a funny topic to have appear on a board with a bunch of multi-national onlookers.

Now as mentioned the whole arguement is a countries funds and resources being stretched by illegal immigration. Now that in sense is a problem, but that doesn't mean that concern about it is left to a bunch of skinheaded thuggers.

The problem is something that governments around the world try to sort, as we move further through time and into larger population expectancies. This is cast aside the usual commentary that lefties would chuck into the framework about "stealing our jobs" and extreme racist remarks.

In truth the only way to stop this illegal immigration is to begin fixing the places that those people have come from, and most of the time people forget how some of these peoples homes might have been burnt and looted due to global changes in policies.

If the world is going to deal with such immigration, then our countries are going to have to buy islands and build new colonies, This would let immigrants have somewhere to live, and farm, and not just become a burden on a society.

I know that what I've mentioned will get criticised, but afterall this is a discussion forum, and thats what it's here for... discussion.

I think your partly right BUT no matter how much we fix up "their" homeland they will still flood in and why? Because this is a Welfare State - "the state will provide" and all that..... It would not stop them. We have to be heavy handed and say to anyone who comes here, like in other countries, look - you can come but you must be self supporting, can claim no benefits and cannot have citizenship for 5 years. We in the UK are far too soft, an easy touch, go to UK they will give you handouts.

I work with an Albanian who came here legally 4 years ago. He was told you can wait 5 years then apply for citizenship. He is furious as he sees all these "illegals" flooding in, taking passport handouts at the ports, freebies, free housing, naturalisation documentation etc etc. He was given no help when he arrived, had to find his own way, get a job, accomodation etc. I have seen some of these papers on these illegals. Written across one, immediately before he changed his name by deed poll was "Claims to Be" - he is on the run - no messing!!!

Whether it is France, England or US - there is a big problem in immigration. In US, the government does a good job managing the money. The rate goes up or down based on the economic conditions. But when it comes to immigration, no body really manages the demand and surplus. Our Immigration service is so inept, they gave visa to the terrorist after he was dead.

Three years ago, here in US, we had a strong demand for computer people. The business pushed to get foreign workers so that we can compete in the world market. So far so good. Then, our economy went sour. Companies started laying off people by the thousands. But the flood gate to get the foreign workers remained open - where they can take the job at 33% wage rate. That has created a lot of resentment among our citizens. I think in UK, it is worse.

Here is my solution. First, whatever people come in as immigrants should be able to be integrated in to the society before opening the door. Dumping immigrants is not a good solution in the long run.

Second, manage people coming in based on demand. Only exception is immediate family. That management should be such that a new comer can only take the job no less than 85% of the market rate. If a person is on a work visa for less than 6 months of work, that person must go back for 6 months before being eligible to reenter the country.

Whatever are the rules, if it is managed well, there will be less social tension. Longtime citizens will have less reason to lash out at newcomers when times are tough.

Most of the born Britons will agree with me that a common culture keeps a country strong. Some variations upto 20% adds variety and spice to the culture. But too little integration creates racial, ethnic, country of origin divisions. I am sure in UK today, there is little India, little Turkey, little Pakistan, little China etc. where people never have to get out of their island of culture/language etc all their lives. It is the societies' responsibility to integrate as much as possible without destroying the religion of the new culture. It is a fine balance. If I sound kinda racist, I probably did not explain very well. Unless the problems are dealt with early on, the consequences can be disaster as happened in Germany.

The problem is there is no mechanism in US to deal with such long term complex social issues without being heavy handed. I do not know if UK government has any such programs. Going right or left is a symptom rather than cause....IMHO...

Your pal's problem is that he was actually trying to become a citizen. Why would ANY government want another tax-paying, by-the-book resident? They have enough. They need laborers that are willing to work for FAR less than the minimum wage that the government has decided is fair for the rest of the citizens to fight over.
The only way to get these "willing" participants in sweat-shops is to import them like goods. There's another word on the tip of my tongue ...

Quote: Most of the born Britons will agree with me that a common culture keeps a country strong. Unquote

We have NO culture of our own now, it is not allowed under the leftish "pc". We cannot crack jokes deemed to be ethnic (Did you hear the one about the Englishman, Irishman and the Scot?); we cannot criticise other religions or ethnic "minorities" - now "majorities" we have no freedom of speech and even our media bends over backwards to accomodate "ethnic" tendencies. Today I posted a mail in a government forum calling the far left anarchistic scum (re: May Day Parade/Riots in London) and they would not allow it!!! Did you know, and this is official, that the most common surname in England is PATEL!! Whatever happened to Smith or Jones? Advertising agencies are "encouraged" to use ethnic's in their commercials. Programs on tv must have "token" ethnics - the BBC being the worst of all; they also promote the employment of that section of society that I refer to as "shirt lifters"..................

Originally posted by Eman Resu
Your pal's problem is that he was actually trying to become a citizen. Why would ANY government want another tax-paying, by-the-book resident? They have enough. They need laborers that are willing to work for FAR less than the minimum wage that the government has decided is fair for the rest of the citizens to fight over.
The only way to get these "willing" participants in sweat-shops is to import them like goods. There's another word on the tip of my tongue ...

Actually that is not the case. We have a "minimum wage" law in the UK and in my place of work, we employ more ethnics that "white" and all are actually on more than me!!!!!! We asked for a substantial rise to "catch up" and were turned down flat!

Ah...the PATELs...even in India, they are called the jews of India. Even in US, you can open up any white page of a major city and find pages of Patels. Even in a small town, if there is an Indian, it would be a Patel.

I have not figured out the "Patel" phenomenon. I am sure they are law abiding, nice people. But there is definitely an under current of hostility towards them by Indians and non-Indians alike.

Originally posted by kmguru
Ah...the PATELs...even in India, they are called the jews of India. Even in US, you can open up any white page of a major city and find pages of Patels. Even in a small town, if there is an Indian, it would be a Patel.

I have not figured out the "Patel" phenomenon. I am sure they are law abiding, nice people. But there is definitely an under current of hostility towards them by Indians and non-Indians alike.



I meant nothing by my statement, implied or otherwise but the name "Patel" seems to spread like Aids does it not?

I personally had minimal contact with the word 'patel' except when I stay at a hotel owned by one. Whether it is a patel or any other minorities in a society - if there is a tension, we should get to the bottom of it and solve the problem before the cancer of such feelings spreads.

Here in USA, in certain localities there is a low level tension between african americans and the rest of the people. On the surface it looks great, but it is there. Once in a while it flares up...No one wants to talk about it for fear of being branded as a racist.

Originally posted by kmguru
I personally had minimal contact with the word 'patel' except when I stay at a hotel owned by one. Whether it is a patel or any other minorities in a society - if there is a tension, we should get to the bottom of it and solve the problem before the cancer of such feelings spreads.

Here in USA, in certain localities there is a low level tension between african americans and the rest of the people. On the surface it looks great, but it is there. Once in a while it flares up...No one wants to talk about it for fear of being branded as a racist.

Precisely the situation here regarding "nobody wants to talk" I am branded all sorts from "german" to "fascist" to "nazi" to worse if I dare to open my mouth and publically criticise anything I find wrong - and race in this country is so black biased it is untrue. Our wimpish politicians are so shit scared of them - its a joke. It is OK for the "ethnics" to call the "native" population white scum, honkies or whatever - but we cannot open our mouths. It is OK for the "ethnics" to drive their illegal vehicles wantonly about the streets, the Police look at their shoe laces when these people drive past. But if that driver is white - god help him!!! You could look on my Company car park any night after 10 and find at least a half dozen untaxed, therefore uninsured cars, therefor illegal. Does anyone care - YES I do! But I am told to shut up!!

There is a solution for such complex issues. But the solution has to be implementated with the blessing of the highest authorities. I work with several Fortune 500 companies who have extremetely complex problems. What I found is that those who implement policies at a lower level or half-heartedly, it fails and some of them go bankcrupt. Those who understand the enitire landscape become successful.

Having worked with governments both nationally and internationally (some experience already posted), I think it is doable. Failure to do so will turn UK into South Africa in 15 or so years ...

Originally posted by kmguru
There is a solution for such complex issues. But the solution has to be implementated with the blessing of the highest authorities. I work with several Fortune 500 companies who have extremetely complex problems. What I found is that those who implement policies at a lower level or half-heartedly, it fails and some of them go bankcrupt. Those who understand the enitire landscape become successful.

Having worked with governments both nationally and internationally (some experience already posted), I think it is doable. Failure to do so will turn UK into South Africa in 15 or so years ...

I think it will be sooner - and also, we will be an islamic country on your timescale..............

Goofyfish wrote in another thread: http://www.sciforums.com/t7356/s3ba31ecabc8fa54e07786e90c70469c6/thread.html

He was quite concerned that people who do not share western values are entering western nations in great numbers, and he thought this would damage the values of a free society. He specifically spoke up about female gender apartheid amongst Muslims and the doctrine of 'honorable revenge' violence. His main problem with the Muslim religion is that certain parts of the Netherlands (especially the big cities as Amsterdam, The Hague and Rotterdam) are becoming safe havens for large groups of immigrants who create their own subculture, where they do not adapt to Dutch customs and/or law. The last few years we have had a lot of honor-killings in the Netherlands. Muslim women have been killed for having affairs and the judges give them lenient sentences because it "is their culture".

Very interesting...

Thanks for that - and I am dead against it! People who move to other countries should abide by the laws AND culture of that country - not take it over as the same people are doing here in the UK. The Socialist Government here in UK even want to "fiddle" with electoral laws to get more "blacks" elected. Imagine if I went to live in, for example, Saudi Arabia and wanted to open a pub for "ex pats" I would soo be told where to go - forcibly. Or if I emigrated to the USA and demanded (they do here) this and that - it would be "next plane out buddy!"