Didn't know where this should go so feel free to move.

I was reading the paper at the same time as watching the news on tv, I was reading an article about two school girls going missing at the same time as the tv was showing a report about electronically tagging pets and I thought....

Why dont we have every human being on the planet tagged so that we can trace their movements by GPS?

No one could ever go missing.

All crime would be stopped because you know were a crime took place just find out who was there by looking at the records.

The only problem would occur when people found out how to remove their chip, but if you introduce the death penalty for anyone who is caught without a chip, it should deter people.

anyway, what do you think.

screw human rights, I would rather live in a world without crime.

What crime is greater than screwing human rights? But hey, it is a good idea for me to..hmmmm POOP ON! Just kidding..ok not really.

I don't want anything like that. It is not that I am criminal, I value my sense of independance. I don't want big brother that close. It bothers me enough that there are cameras everywhere you go. After these "pet bugs" are in place someone will want to come along and change the rules and make use of all this great new info. Can you imagine what some company like Micro$oft could do with this kind of info?

Why don't they use the technology of optics? Everytime you go somewhere you get retina scanned :D

That movie was too cool :cool:

Cruise and Collen were great actors.

Originally posted by ~The_Chosen~
Why don't they use the technology of optics? Everytime you go somewhere you get retina scanned :D

That movie was too cool :cool:

Cruise and Collen were great actors.

Hell yea! Also to add they could have camera's along with the retina scanner. So just in case a criminal switches their eyes, the camera would pick up anyone's face that has a similar symmetry to the criminal. Then register all of their retina's and quickly track each one down to find the right one. But only a very few rich, smart criminals would have the resources to change their eyes.

Originally posted by sjmarsha
Why dont we have every human being on the planet tagged so that we can trace their movements by GPS?

No one could ever go missing.

Good idea...buttttt rather have all the criminals tagged :D People that have commited great crimes. As in if they enter jail, tag them. Well no need for light punishments though.

All crime would be stopped because you know were a crime took place just find out who was there by looking at the records.

Not exactly, although most crime would. But what if that information gets into the wrong hands? Bad guys need to find someone to kill them, just tap in somehow and get the information and it's over. By the time the government blocks them out, it's too late. Retina scan is the best.

screw human rights, I would rather live in a world without crime.

You must notice that the more rights, the more crime. The less, the less crime, but also the more people rebel. ;)

You could make the chips non-removable -- they would kill the person doing the removing, if an attempt were made.

A much neglected "human right" these days is the right to personal safety. This would provide that, to a great degree. People who were willing to be caught and punished for a crime could still commit them, though.

I would not give up personal freedom and human rights in exchange for a crime-free world, even if it could be brought about, which I dont for one second believe. I can think of many crimes that could be committed even if you could track exactly where everybody have been. Economical crime, fraud, corruption, just to mention a few.

Hans

I agree with you, MRC_Hans. So far the death penalty has done little to stop murder...

tagging would not stop child abductions since the tag could be removed. I guess it is inevitable. maybe already happening.:eek:

While we're at it, let's make some neuro-cannula devices that we can attach to the cortex and coerce others into doing things they don't want to--such as crime or just lounging around the house on a Saturday afternoon.

Implants may save those relative few that stray or get abducted, but what about those that leave their abusive husbands? Would you prefer their husbands have GPS equipment to track their wayward wives?

Stalkers would absolutely love the idea of personal implants. Though, eventually, they'd have to learn to electronically subvert the signals so they themselves wouldn't be implicated.

Pedophiles and would-be rapists (not caring so much when they got caught) would be alerted as to the exact moment the parents or guardians left the person they're after.

Eradicating crime at the cost of personal freedom is a crime. I'd rather we had the flawed conception of justice and protection than the forced safety measures of the implants.

Like <b>wet1</b> said, the death penalty has done absolutely nothing to eradicate murderous behavior, except to perpetuate it. I read in an Asimov book once (<i>Foundation and Earth</i>?) that the best way to deal with murderous behavior was through pain rather than a quick death. Alas, I digress.

Some people seem to be under the erroneous assumption that, "Hey, if you've nothing to hide, then wearing the implant won't harm you in any way." But that's the whole thing. Something I do may be reason for you to hide your actions, which seem perfectly normal to me. An implant represents someone else's behaviors and standards imposed on everyone.

Kind of thought we all had a choice on what to do with our lives. As for me and my house, we will NOT take implants!

Cheers!

prag

-itches wrists- i dont like that idea at all.... :( as you soon as you creat power, someone will firgue out how to abuse it. as for the retina scans... has anyone ever looked into if that has any long term affects... you'd kinda think it would. but who knows?

i think the best way of security/tracking that wouldn't get to creepy is the little pin pricks in gattica. it wouldn't work in tracking too well.. but... i think its would be better than the retina scan....


but heres a question.....
what if the chips are already here... just know one knows about it... gwahahahaha... ;)

Theres nothing to stop parents using currently available gps tech, to keep track of their kids. I saw one on the news the other night in the form of a watch. That seems sensible and does not impinge on freedoms as its optional.

now that i thnk is a very good idea... as long as the kid doesn't know it... otherwise he would just take it off. lol..
bet that kid never gets away with skipping school. LOL

MRC Hans - (by the way are you really posting from somewhere south of St. Petersburg, or is that a joke?) - we were talking about crimes of violence against people -- this system would allow the identification of the culprit in most cases. Sure, not in all, but in most.

Bringing up the death penalty here doesn't make sense. The real question should be does the threat of ANY punishment for murder reduce the number of murders committed, and the answer is definitely "Yes" -- hell, if there were no punishment for it, I'd murder someone everyday on my commute to and from work (like those idiots who go a constant speed for miles and then speed up just as I attempt to pass :mad: ).

Originally posted by nightfall
now that i thnk is a very good idea... as long as the kid doesn't know it... otherwise he would just take it off. lol..
bet that kid never gets away with skipping school. LOL

haha, damn that sucks! :mad: Feel sorry for him

naah- kids would get smarter. they always figure out smth:)
like organising a close-to-body EM explosion that will kill the tracker

Some say that the chip is what the bible is referring to with the sign of the beast.

Right hand and forehad...

You'll see, when they come up with the chip, there will be a 666 on it somewhere.

Everybody will get spooked... what if it's true....? :)

Why dont we have every human being on the planet tagged so that we can trace their movements by GPS?
sure, and while ur at it hitler, y not put a poster of urself on every wall?
is that ok with u Big Brother?

Well I left it for a day and most of the responses are exactly what I expected, complete refusal. So either you are all criminals, or are more worried that it is not 100% secure so instead of getting 1000 abductions a year, if it is possible to reduce that number to around 100 you would still be against it? (you know what i mean)

Pedophiles and would-be rapists (not caring so much when they got caught) would be alerted as to the exact moment the parents or guardians left the person they're after.

But if you had an alarm system in your house that called the police the moment that someone else stepped into the house, the problem would be solved.

sure, and while ur at it hitler, y not put a poster of urself on every wall?

:confused: What would that achieve?

Kind of thought we all had a choice on what to do with our lives. As for me and my house, we will NOT take implants!

Ok, so we will have to wait for every one who is aginst it to die off, but at least our children will see sense.

On a slight tangent now.... What about the death penalty for all crimes? You steal a chocolate bar...zap...your dead.

So either you are all criminals, or are more worried that it is not 100% secure so instead of getting 1000 abductions a year, if it is possible to reduce that number to around 100 you would still be against it?

We are all criminals.

No wait, we are fond of our freedom.

Children can be tagged when the parrents agree, but only temporarily.

Mobile phones can be located too.

Criminals will find a way around the chips.

But if you had an alarm system in your house that called the police the moment that someone else stepped into the house, the problem would be solved.

No it wouldn't. If you could know EXACTLY when the children were alone, you would need two minutes to barge in and get the children.

No response team is that fast.

Ok, so we will have to wait for every one who is aginst it to die off, but at least our children will see sense.

You don't understand personal freedom nor democracy.

Yeah, you just sit there and wait. Quietly.

On a slight tangent now.... What about the death penalty for all crimes? You steal a chocolate bar...zap...your dead.

I said quietly.

Originally posted by sjmarsha
getting 1000 abductions a year, if it is possible to reduce that number to around 100

suppose these "criminals" who do these abductions are doing them for the army... there'd still be 1000...:eek:

seriously ur joking ryt?
putting tags on people?

do u kno y we kidnap, rob, shoot, and kill?

how is treating us worse going 2 make things better?

even if it does lower crime, it wouldnt be possible to live under those conditions.

if we cant live and grow as humans and be treated correctly without being tagged like we're a bunch of morons, y would we stop kidnapping robbing, and killing?

i dont kno about u but most people feel that they could be living better lives, acheiving more, and feel happier and healthier.

the problem is, those that we elected 2 watch over us protect us and take care of us r actually the ones that r slowing our progress and stepping on us.

u will hav 2 wait until all of us who r against tagging dies or u can go liv somwer else in ur own separate nightmare society wer everbody gets tagged and treated like crap but they cant do anything about it. y? because they r tagged and they will get caught if they try 2 fight back.

if we wer treated with mor respect and given more freedom, if we wer actually cared for maybe we wouldnt hav the tym or the thot 2 commit all these crimes.

we wait for the day society stops treating us like a problem to be dealt with.

the day when society cares enough 2 provide the individual with a more nurturing evironment

until that day, we will continue 2 rob, we will continue 2 kidnap, we will continue 2 murder, we will continue 2 shoot up our schools, we will continue 2 crash airplanes and blow up large buildings, and we will continue 2 resent one another.

they hurt us, we hurt them back, they hurt us back, we hurt them again, and so on and so forth.

they bomb us, we bomb them.

it doesnt end until the one more powerful seems 2 cum out on top.
its not good triumphing over evil.
its the powerful overcoming the weak.
with great power comes what?
responsibility?
not in this world.

anyone ever seen resident evil yet?
its about the effects of a good security system (and having too much advanced technology) or i think so anyway....

i think people need to deal with their problems and stop trying to find some computer or other force to do it for them. if your a parent. take care of your kid. if you leave your house.. lock the door. and most of all.. people dont just brak into your house or kidknapp your kid becuase "he/she was there"... no one is going to hold a poor persons kid ransom. and (in most cases) no one is going to break into your ouse unless they know you have something they want.

I've seen it. Thats one mean security system.

No it wouldn't. If you could know EXACTLY when the children were alone, you would need two minutes to barge in and get the children.

Yes but the children would be tagged so the police could follow them.

I said quietly.
Sorry its taking too long.

You don't understand personal freedom nor democracy.
What makes you say that?Perhaps if more people were willing to give a little then we could get alot in return. i.e give up a bit of personal freedom for a better world.

What does democracy have to do with it?

Coolskill--> Sorry but i cannot read what you have written. Do you not have vowels on your keyboard?

i think people need to deal with their problems and stop trying to find some computer or other force to do it for them. if your a parent. take care of your kid. if you leave your house.. lock the door.

here here. People are too stupid.

Yes but the children would be tagged so the police could follow them.

Like I said, criminals will find a way around the chips.

Say we put the chip in the arm.

Now when some secret service want to kidnap someone, that would make for interesting dismemberment scenes.

We found an arm chief.

Sorry its taking too long.

Patience is a virtue. Enforcing your ideas to others will never work.

What makes you say that?

Waiting for your opponents to die off shows a poor understanding of democracy.

give up a bit of personal freedom for a better world.

It is giving up A LOT of personal freedom. Why do you think 1984 was written? Do you see any difference between cameras and chips?

here here. People are too stupid.

At least they know how to value freedom.

i think people need to deal with their problems and stop trying to find some computer or other force to do it for them.

I agree.

We'd all be cyborgs in the near future anyway :D :cool:

postoak:
(by the way are you really posting from somewhere south of St. Petersburg, or is that a joke?)

St. Petersburg??? Where do you buy maps? Nahh, look again. Your lattitude is OK, but you're a bit off in longitude. A thousand miles or so.

Btw, I've met several Russians on the www, so whats the joke?

Hans

I think that it is aprox 6 km E of Vordingborg, Storestroems Amt, Denmark

http://www.confluence.org/dk/all/n55e012/pic1.jpg




edit to add- and to all who may wonder- it is not a joke, I'm really posting from Latvia:bugeye:

I all ofr it!
And I don't see how such implants would restrain me in my freedom (if there is such a thing at all).
I really do believe this would dramatically reduce crime rates. Most of the serious crimes are commited by recidivistic individuals, so the dept of justice would know who to follow. I don't think they would be very interested in e.g. my daily going to work and the supermarket.

Furthermore, many cards most of us carry (credit-cards, paycards, discount cards, membership cards, etc.) do quite some monitoring allready. The difference is that you have to actively use them to be monited.

Good thinking sjmarsha!

Wahay someone on my side!
Say we put the chip in the arm.
What if we put it in the heart? or the brain?

Do you see any difference between cameras and chips? Yep. but we are already being semi tracked like Merlijn said. What diffference does it make wether it be by camera or chip? because they have face recognition now adays, it could be implemented without our knowledge.

At least they know how to value freedom
Yes but do they? If you truly valued your freedom then surely you would give some of it up to allow others their freedom as well?

And please remember that the dead do not have any freedom.

Heheh, I've now checked those coordinates twice, and they're correct. I would discourage both of you to go sailing before brushing up your navigation, heheh. You're getting closer, though. Its north of Copenhagen.

sjmarsha:
Now IF the tagging scheme could virtually abolish crime, it just might be worth considering. But it cant:

Murder: Many murders happen in a momentary rage. The murderer does not contemplete wether he's going to be caught or not. Also tags will only help solve cases if only the murderer and the victim were at the scene. With tags, premeditated murders would be done in a crowd (endangering bystanders). Finally, many murder cases must rest because it cannot be proved that it WAS murder ("No I didnt push him").

Rape: Problem with rape cases is usually to prove that it was rape, not that the perpetrator was on the scene.

Burglary: Well sure it would help, but some burglars are desparate junkeys, they might run the risk.

And of course, we dont at present have the technology to trace small passive implantable chips over great areas, that would require a very complex structure of tracer stations all over the country.

And it could still be foiled, --- actually thats a pun; wrap the part of your body containing the chip in aluminum foil and you go undetected. We dont have a technology that cannot be fooled, and because of that, the scheme might bring us from the ashes into the fire: Now a criminal could get the perfect aliby; "Did you trace me there? No? Then I wasnt there!".

Im afraid the solution to the problem of crime is not in technology but in sociology.

Hans

sjmarsha -- hey, I'm on your side too. It doesn't matter if ALL crime is prevented to make this a worthwhile idea. It's really not about prevention, anyway, it's about catching perpetrators. Since, as someone pointed out, most crime is committed by a small percentage of the population, doing multiple crimes, getting those people into prison as quickly as possible would drastically reduce crime rates. Also, there would be other benefits as well. For example, locating missing children.

Of course it's not doable now -- this is a pie-in-the-sky discussion anyway.

We've been trying to control crime via sociology for a couple of hundred years now, with little or no progress made. I think we can use some help from technology.

MRC Hans -- oops, sorry, I read the coordinates too quickly and saw 30 degrees east instead of 12 degrees 30 minutes east.

Actually, I don't encounter many Russians on the net -- more people from the other parts of the former Soviet Union. Especially Belarussians. This might make a good thread sometime, to have Non-north-American members "check in".

the mark is out

What if we put it in the heart? or the brain?

Heart or brain surgery enforced on little children?

but we are already being semi tracked like Merlijn said.

Lots of these assaults on our freedom are condemned by for example the European Court. It is a violation of the right on privacy.

If you truly valued your freedom then surely you would give some of it up to allow others their freedom as well?

I allow others their freedom by not having them tagged.

And please remember that the dead do not have any freedom.

Are you sure? Ever been dead?

Most crimes do not involve killing someone. Mrc Hans pointed out some other flaws.

I read that a woman and her associate have been granted several patents for GPS systems which can be concealed in a child's clothing. It will set off an alarm if the child leaves a predetermine boundary. It can be used to locate a missing child.

I'm for individual tracking systems, providing we retain the option to shut down those systems.

Originally posted by nightfall
anyone ever seen resident evil yet?
its about the effects of a good security system (and having too much advanced technology) or i think so anyway....


Damn, I love that movie. The Red Queen is such a manipulative little cyber child...

the story was good... but i wasn't able to actually *watch* all of it... kept the lights on for few nights afterwards.. but im such a scardycat anyhow..

i think having a chip in a childs clothing sounds like a good idea... but actaully implanting it into a persons body is a little too much playing god. i feel for technology to improve, it needs to take a few steps backward.

It has already een done in UK.
watched on Discovery
one proffesor has an implant and everywhere e goes in his lab house doors are opened before him, lights are switched on, temperature adjusted and what not
.
I think that a simple card could do the trick - no need for implanting

yes yes.. and it does! wher my mom works... everything is opened by cardkey, like alot of places... doors open for her too. LOL however i must say.. are we really that lazy that we cant flip our own light swtich?

As long as there is no invasion of privacy, you can be as lazy as you want :)

Technology rocks.

may I add, A4Ever?

As long as there is no invasion of privacy or degradation, you can be as lazy as you want


Technology rocks!

True.

Heart or brain surgery enforced on little children?

Sorry I was just going to the other extreme.

Lots of these assaults on our freedom are condemned by for example the European Court. It is a violation of the right on privacy.

Screw human rights. If i am murdered I want to know that the culprit will be punished, so I can kick his ass in the afterlife.

I allow others their freedom by not having them tagged.

Its all relative. People who are raped are scarred for life.

Murder: Many murders happen in a momentary rage. The murderer does not contemplete wether he's going to be caught or not. Also tags will only help solve cases if only the murderer and the victim were at the scene. With tags, premeditated murders would be done in a crowd (endangering bystanders). Finally, many murder cases must rest because it cannot be proved that it WAS murder ("No I didnt push him").

Yes but he could be caught Then he/she could be punished (i.e. death penalty) and that is one less person who would kill someone.
Yes (to the second point in above qoute) but you could find out who was at that place during the day and question everyone if you have to.

Burglary: Well sure it would help, but some burglars are desparate junkeys, they might run the risk.

So they would be caught and given the death penalty. One less junky about that I have to worry about.

And it could still be foiled, --- actually thats a pun; wrap the part of your body containing the chip in aluminum foil and you go undetected. We dont have a technology that cannot be fooled, and because of that, the scheme might bring us from the ashes into the fire: Now a criminal could get the perfect aliby; "Did you trace me there? No? Then I wasnt there!".

Well if you see anyone wrapped in silver foil arrest them then give them the death penalty for avoiding being traced. They could have committed a crime whist wrapped up.

Another point slightly on a tangent came from a scifi book. one of clarkes rama series. He talks about an alien race where everyone must contribute to the society as a whole, but are given a house food etc. If you fall below the qouta then you are killed. Seems like a good way to get arid of all crime to me. i.e you all live the same so no one else has anything you want.

Originally posted by sjmarsha
Screw human rights. If i am murdered I want to know that the culprit will be punished, so I can kick his ass in the afterlife.

Screw human rights??? Well that is your opinion and I really respect my privacy.

Well if you see anyone wrapped in silver foil arrest them then give them the death penalty for avoiding being traced. They could have committed a crime whist wrapped up.

You are assuming you can see the silver foil on them? It's called wearing clothes and people can conceal it. And aren't you harsh, "Just give them the death penalty if they avoid to be traced! Give them the death penalty if they take the chip out!." :rolleyes: You are living a fantasy. And YOU can't JUST KILL people like that.

Just drop this because it is stupid. Simply because there are ways around it, and with this kind of technology, it could be put to really bad use. Don't make me point it out.

Another point slightly on a tangent came from a scifi book. one of clarkes rama series. He talks about an alien race where everyone must contribute to the society as a whole, but are given a house food etc. If you fall below the qouta then you are killed. Seems like a good way to get arid of all crime to me. i.e you all live the same so no one else has anything you want.

Seems like a good way to rid of CRIME. YES, but do YOU want to live granted the conditions???

You believe crime is everything and you would simply sacrifice everything for it?!?! OPEN your mind a bit.

sjmarsha:

Death penalty for burglary, addiction, evading tracking, for being uselss ---:eek:

Well, you may want to live in such a society, but I sure as hell wont! If anybody would come around and try to enforce that in my neck of the would, they would be well adviced to come well armed.

Hans

I think we are getting side tracked by discussing whether these tags would reduce/prevent crime (or by how much), or whether they could be blocked/removed, or how invasive they would be to install.

The real issue is privacy. That, I think, is why those who are opposed to them are opposed to them. The rest is just a smokescreen. So, for those who are opposed to them, for the sake of argument, grant that they would reduce crime a lot, couldn't be removed/blocked, and could be installed at birth with no pain/trauma. You're still opposed to them, right? Now tell us why. One good reason would be that if the government became "evil", they could be used to evil ends -- that's a good reason to oppose them, IMO. But lets eliminate even that possibility. Some of you would STILL be opposed to them -- why? Why is "privacy" so important to you? Most of the time, all the tracking information would just be stored in computers. Humans would look at it only when determining who might have committed a crime. So, your "privacy" is invaded only in a very passive way. Yet, I'll bet your still opposed to it. Tell us why, please.

Originally posted by postoak
The real issue is privacy.

NO it isn't, it's in the humans themselves.

That, I think, is why those who are opposed to them are opposed to them. The rest is just a smokescreen. So, for those who are opposed to them, for the sake of argument, grant that they would reduce crime a lot, couldn't be removed/blocked, and could be installed at birth with no pain/trauma. You're still opposed to them, right? Now tell us why.

Sorry, it just doesn't work that way. What is put in can be removed. And what you are saying is impossible. But with those implications, yes I wouldn't mind. As long as nothing is video recorded. But with the possibilities and the danger in real life, it just won't happen.

Provided if only crime rates skyrocket, and too much damage is done. Then this "drastic" action would be suitable. And I don't even think that is going to happen, as in crime rate. Only if the world were like hell the government would do such a thing.

One good reason would be that if the government became "evil", they could be used to evil ends -- that's a good reason to oppose them, IMO. But lets eliminate even that possibility. Some of you would STILL be opposed to them -- why? Why is "privacy" so important to you? Most of the time, all the tracking information would just be stored in computers. Humans would look at it only when determining who might have committed a crime. So, your "privacy" is invaded only in a very passive way. Yet, I'll bet your still opposed to it. Tell us why, please.

For some, yes, they will be opposed to it because they want to feel free. It's maybe an instinct grown into some humans when they grew up. Also concious ability to determine if you want it into your body or not, not given a decision would be immoral to some, and therefore unagreed. But yes, if no EVIL was intended with such a device, I would be for it. But in this world, there will always be human evil and human good, one simply cannot co-exist without the other.

postoak:

Sure, if they could really really prevent a lot of crime, couldnt be fooled, couldnt be misused, etc. etc. ---- But that would be an ideal world, wouldnt it? And what need would we have for these things in an ideal world?

I am answering this question in the real world where the very person who started the debate seems to be in favor of forcing it on people and sentence a few milloin people to death.

And my answer is: No way!

Hans

Originally posted by MRC_Hans
I am answering this question in the real world where the very person who started the debate seems to be in favor of forcing it on people and sentence a few milloin people to death.

And my answer is: No way!

DAMN straight! You can't just send people to death for such STUPID shit like that. Contemplate more please and don't say, "you take it off, you simply die." That's living in a world of fear buddy, and I don't think anyone wants that. Peace.

Yes but he could be caught Then he/she could be punished (i.e. death penalty) and that is one less person who would kill someone.

You just replaced one killer with another.

All other issues have already been adressed.

You just replaced one killer with another

Alright then. Lets take everone off Australlia and send the criminals there. When they die out great. Jails are not the way forward.

STUPID shit like that.

Have you ever been burgled? Had someone you loved murdered? Had your daughter raped!? These are all invasions of peoples freedom as well. We just need to choose the lesser of two evils. Innocent people dieing? or criminals? You decide which you would rather.

You lot keep thinking too small. There are 5 billion human beings on this planet. How many of them want to know how often you go to the toilet? or how long you spend in your house?

The whole world doesn't revolve around you!

Well, you may want to live in such a society, but I sure as hell wont! If anybody would come around and try to enforce that in my neck of the would, they would be well adviced to come well armed.

Good. Then anyone who shoots at the police can be killed as well. That would soon make your area safer to live in.

Just drop this because it is stupid. Simply because there are ways around it, and with this kind of technology, it could be put to really bad use. Don't make me point it out.

No please go ahead.

Originally posted by sjmarsha
Alright then. Lets take everone off Australlia and send the criminals there. When they die out great. Jails are not the way forward.

You are really ignorant. Send them to Australia??? They will just form their own country again, if you have learned any history, Australia was a continent were criminals have been sent, but did they die out??? I don't think so. And anyways, the Australians won't just leave their island. :rolleyes: Let me ask you HOW OLD ARE YOU?

Have you ever been burgled? Had someone you loved murdered? Had your daughter raped!? These are all invasions of peoples freedom as well. We just need to choose the lesser of two evils. Innocent people dieing? or criminals? You decide which you would rather.

Have you? I believe that is why your vision is seriously veered into one sole direction, your direciton. I'm sorry if any heavenly inauspicious events have happened to you pertained to murder or rape, but by implying people that even raise a hand against this "tracer" of yours to be sentenced to death, that is even worse then murder and rape.

Why don't you think out of that "box" of yours and look at it that way?

OMG, by what you are suggesting with your immature thinking, many innocent people will die. The reason I stated "STUPID shit like that," is that you proposed an idea that whoever tries to hide, run, or remove your tracer technology would simply die, and whoever commits a crime and caught by the tracer will simply sentenced to death.

Now that is nonsense and not needed.

You lot keep thinking too small.

YOU are thinking too small. And the way you provide a solution to a question asked, as in, "What if they take the tracer off?" Your pathetic solution is, "OH, just kill them." I'm glad you're not some type of leader. :D

Good. Then anyone who shoots at the police can be killed as well. That would soon make your area safer to live in.

WTF, so you would let MRC_Hans die because he doesn't think and believe in this as you do? And he is NOT even a criminal, just doesn't want to be tagged like a doggy. You indubitably need to stop thinking about things for yourself.

Your notion of a tracer is somewhat effective, and it is a good idea. But the problems that will arise after it make it useless, and YOUR solutions to just kill whoever opposes will never BE ACCEPTED. I could understand people to be sentenced to less harsh punishments, but your death sentence crap will never work.

Dark Master I did not like the tone of your reply and usually would not answer but you do bring up some interresting ideas.

You are really ignorant. Send them to Australia??? They will just form their own country again, if you have learned any history, Australia was a continent were criminals have been sent, but did they die out??? I don't think so. And anyways, the Australians won't just leave their island. Let me ask you HOW OLD ARE YOU?

Yes I realised that. I do live in England and not some country that doesn't get taught history. And did you not think that might be the reason why I suggested it? No. You automatically think that every one is worthless but your self. I am 19. What about you?
I didn't necessarily want them to die off, lets just build a huge electric fence or something.

Have you?
Nope.

YOU are thinking too small. And the way you provide a solution to a question asked, as in, "What if they take the tracer off?" Your pathetic solution is, "OH, just kill them." I'm glad you're not some type of leader.

Can you deny that it would work?

WTF, so you would let MRC_Hans die

Only if he commits a crime. Which should include not having a tracer.

You indubitably need to stop thinking about things for yourself.

Now you are trying to invade my freedom.

I could understand people to be sentenced to less harsh punishments, but your death sentence crap will never work.

But without solid proof? It would become a mockery. I could just point my finger at you and say that you took my biscuit. I could drop some crumbs in your house and get you killed.

Everyone who is opposed to this should sit down and think, "Do I have a better idea?"

Originally posted by sjmarsha


Have you ever been burgled? Had someone you loved murdered? Had your daughter raped!? These are all invasions of peoples freedom as well. We just need to choose the lesser of two evils. Innocent people dieing? or criminals? You decide which you would rather.



It comes down to what our society values most: criminals or innocents.

Originally posted by sjmarsha
Everyone who is opposed to this should sit down and think, "Do I have a better idea?"

Your idea is quixotic at best.

What about the implications of such "tagging"? What if a corrupt goverment took control? It would be easy to silence people that oppose.

Your idea is frivolous, I'm sure the retina scanning idea promulgated through the movie Minority Report would be a much better idea.

Think about it for just a second. Look at the anti-piracy technology that they are trying to implement. Right when it is released the technology is hacked and bypassed in less than 7 days.

Quite pathetic right? Also the idea of other imbroglios that could occur. What if such a device is capable of emitting some sort of eletronic signal that is capable of killing the bearer? Or by the time such technology is available, nanotechnology would be developed. Imagine nano-probes inside the human body and its implications.

What if...what if...the possible flaws and complications of such an idea are egregious. The feasibility of it, I cannot see.

Mmmm, isnt it about time we put a few things straight here?

First, the technical side:

Right now there exist three main types of devices suitable for tracing persons.

1) A GPS device. It is esentially a combination of a GPS navigation unit, a cellphone, and a small computer. It is about the size of a three year old cellphone. It runs on recharchable batteries and can be used for finding persons, automatically and for alarm calls. It has virtually unlimited range (provided cell-phone coverage). GPS coverage is poor to non-existent inside buildings, but the device might store the latest outdoor position. Indoor short range tracers could take over in buildings. Because of the size and the need for recharging, the device is only realistic on a voluntary basis. It would be relatively easy to fake its signals to give a false position.

2) An active transponder which will respond to an activation signal. This device is battery-driven and can be made coin-sized. It can be attached to the bearer with a sealed strap and can track the bearer with good precision. Battery lasts weeks. Range is around 100 meters of the tracer station, so extended coverage will require an extensive net of tracking stations. The device can be sabotaged by the bearer and regular battery change is required. It is used for keeping track of convicts serving terms confined in their home, as it requires an element of acceptance from the bearer.

3) A passive transponder which will respond to an activation signal using power derived from the activation signal. The device does not use any internal power source and can be made as an implantable chip. Because living tissue absorbs radio waves it has to be placed directly under the skin. The range is a few feet. It is excellent for ID purposes, but the short range makes tracing over any sizeable area unrealistic. The chip can be implated on an unwilling carrier, but can be sabotaged in various ways, e.g. by removing it and making the wound resemble an accidential trauma, or by making it malfunction by subjecting it to a strong electromagnetic field.

---- So even the most ardent proponents of compulsory tracking must be patient; there is at present no realistic technology for the scheme. Of course that may come before long.


There's another thing I'd like to point out.

We are really discussing two different things here:

1) How do we catch criminals?

2) Once we've caught them, by whatever means, how do we punish them?

It is important to keep the two things apart; a tracking system (assuming the technology becomes available) does not in itself imply a harsh punishment scheme. Actually you could argue that it might have better impact on crime rates if combined with a humane punishment and threathment scheme.

Likewise, a harsh punishment scheme does not depend on electronic tracking; you might make any sort of crime eligible for capital punishment, regardless of which method you use to catch offenders.

Hans

Originally posted by sjmarsha
Dark Master I did not like the tone of your reply and usually would not answer but you do bring up some interresting ideas.

My tone of reply serves you right for that immature mind of yours. If you want something to work, think more realistic. And it is very impolitic to simply suggest people to death sentences for removing or having the mind to reject this tracer. :mad: It's like saying, "Kill'em, who cares, one less criminal to worry about." And think are they even criminals to not want what they not believe in??? And to even render such harsh statements for people who don't deserve being eradicated.

Can you see the flaw in that?

Yes I realised that. I do live in England and not some country that doesn't get taught history. And did you not think that might be the reason why I suggested it? No. You automatically think that every one is worthless but your self.

Suggested it, yes you did. BUT DID IT WORK IN THE PAST??? :rolleyes:

No one is worthless, YOUR idea was worthless.

Just like your other crazy ideas. Contemplate more, you can't give such simple solutions.

"Kill'em!!!"

"Send'em all to Australia!!!"

See the flaw in how you think? You make like it is so easy to do that. Simple minded blockhead.

The reason my tone of reply is so harsh to you is because you say you would just kill people that do not comply with your tracer. That sounds like dictatorship, and you don't go suggesting you would just kill people like that. THAT is unintelligent with the lack of any consideration.

I am 19. What about you?

19...you sound very simplistic through your way of thinking. I am 18.

I didn't necessarily want them to die off, lets just build a huge electric fence or something.

Nowwwww yourrrr thinkingggggg. :)

Understand what I mean?

Nope.

If none of this has ever happened to you...then why are you so worried about criminals... As in you would sacrifice everything, even innocent lives to have this world criminal free.

Can you deny that it would work?

It could work, yeaaaa killing everyone that does a crime, you know HOW many people will DIE??? But you know how much damage you will do to society. EVERYONE will live in fear, and people will not think right. Millions or more will die Let's say your mom didn't want the tracer. So you would kill her too? Answer that QUESTION please.

Only if he commits a crime. Which should include not having a tracer.

So all because MRC_Hans didn't want to be doggy tagged you're just going to kill him? THAT'S fucked up right there. Now you wonder why my statements are harsh towards you. And this is proof you are thinking selfishly, so don't even accuse me I think about myself.

But without solid proof? It would become a mockery. I could just point my finger at you and say that you took my biscuit. I could drop some crumbs in your house and get you killed.

What the hell are you assuming here? I said your death sentence structure will never work.

Everyone who is opposed to this should sit down and think, "Do I have a better idea?"

I already voiced my opinion with Chosen. Retina scan. Peace. ;)

Firstly, there's way to many problems associated with tagging humans for a established governing body to ever impliment any such crowd control system. Secondly, it appears your very willing to sentence criminals to death, but could you bear the weight of murder on your conscience if a person recieved the death pentalty for a crime they never comitted?

Hey, I realize that we're on a totally different subject now, but back to the original topic...

I saw a thing on TV about how they actually ARE tagging retarded and otherwise mentally-disabled kids, so they can give them some freedom, but still find 'em if they wander off.

Another thought: the U.S. government has spy satellites that can read a printed page from orbit. Are we really that concerned about GPS tagging?

Originally posted by Walker
Another thought: the U.S. government has spy satellites that can read a printed page from orbit.Unrelated Gibberish: Assuming perfect atmospheric conditions.. and we all know what assuming makes you and I.:bugeye:

exactly.

Until GPS tagging becomes somehow manditory, it's no more of a threat to our privacy than an eye in the sky that can MAYBE see me SOMETIMES if anyone is even INTERESTED.

What makes it related is that I don't see why we should feel any more "watched" with GPS technology around, when the government can already keep tabs on whoever they want.

By arbitrarily forcing anyone to have a device surgically implanted into his/her body, the above statement would be nullified and one would forever be a suspect until proven innocent.

This whole issue reminds me of an experience that I had recently involving a "Drug Interdiction point." Four State Police officers had created a roadblock to stop & check everyone who came through the area. After being stopped & detained, my vehicle was searched, and I was frisked & interrogated on the spot by an officer who reminded me of a USSR KGB agent. After posing many leading questions, being patronized & insulted, (without an attorney present) the interrogating police officer told to have a nice day:) & allowed to me to go on to my destination.
:mad: Even though I had done nothing to be detained, interrogated, and searched for, I was scrutinized as a "potential" criminal! The thing about this is that older generations would not have put up with this. This has come about because each succeeding generation is born into a world where the individual rights and freedoms of the past generation has been chipped and eroded away by the "Do Gooders" that are present in each generation. SJMARSHA is a "Do Gooder." She has no intention to cause harm to the hard fought for freedoms of the people, but harm will be done when this eventually does happen!

SJMARSHA doesn't realise that her countrymen had a heck of a lot more freedoms and rights long before she was born. She doesn't feel like she is becoming constrained and imprisoned with each new "helpful" law simply because she never knew what it was like to be living before 1983. The same can be said for me as I gauge my own freedoms and rights based on laws that have been made since 1964, although I am a student of history. I can tell you that if my parents & grandparents had been told that one day the government was going to forcibly fingerprint, assign an ID #, and surgically implant a radio tracking device into their decendants at birth, they would have either laughed at the idea or perhaps started a new revolutionary war if believed.

By the very nature of what it is, any government which implements laws and regulations upon it's people without the consent of the whole people, becomes elevated to the position of being more important than the people. I personally believe that all previously made laws should have term limitations, just as I believe that all law makers should be forced to adhere to. Since the ability for each person to communicate his/her opinion is now greatly enhanced in the 21st century, there should exist the ability of the people to periodically vote and repeal any possibly restrictive law that has been made in the past. Without sufficient votes for, a law/regulation would automatically expire.

"Surgically implanted devices will prevent crimes."
No, such implanted devices will not prevent crimes any more than dialing 911 emergency will prevent any crime, unless the crime is being committed in a police station, next to the dispatchers desk, right across from the coffee & donut table!

"Only criminals need to fear such an implanted device."
No, every person who accidently drives 56 MPH in a 55 MPH zone can expect that (s)he will get a speeding ticket through the mail when such a device is implanted in the future. Since the location of a person would be known in real time, then the speed of a person would also be known if that person were to be driving a vehicle. Unless the person were traveling 500 MPH (currently impossible for a car) in a jet airplane, it is very likely that computer systems of the future will be able to determine whether you were actually driving the car or not. It also comes to mind that jaywalkers, ect.. could find themselves regulated by such mandatory technology.

"The technology for such a device does not exist."
No, the technology does indeed exist. Currently, the NSA has admitted the abilty to detect virtually any "VLPES" (very low power electromagnetic source) from satellites. This means that basically any low power EM source that might come from even a nanowatt can be detected and tracked. What it comes down to today is this: if you light a cigarette with a lighter that uses an electric spark ignitor, it can & probably is detected by overhead orbiting satellites!

In years to come, the technology will definately exist to incorporate other things to such implanted devices, that haven't been considered:

Stunning technolgy. It is the wet dream of every sadist law enforcement officer to have the abilty to simply press a button and cause a person to become unconscious or perhaps even die upon command. I'm sure that many law makers would also like to have this technology, even though I am sure that they will be exempt from this because after all, they are trusted public servants and never do anything criminal!;) How many people would be comfortable in the knowledge that no matter the situation, (s)he might suddenly be rendered unconscious, if only by a computer operator mistake? When the implanted tracking devices become standard, it will only be a generation or two later that the world governments will begin to add in a chemical release agent or an electrical stunner "to safeguard the public with instant law enforcement." The tech to build such a thing already exists & tests have almost certainly been performed on lab animals. How secure would SJMARSHA be if a cop who was "hard up" decided to pull her teenage ass over and simply pressed a button to stun her into unconsciousness. After raping her unconscious ass for a couple of hours, he decided to dump her in a garbage bin--dead? Personally, I never signed onto this world with the idea that I could be made helpless at the touch of a button, without even being able to fight the hell back!

How about a hundred years from now? Has anybody here ever fixed a car or done a little work on the side for a friend? Did you think that it was the governments business to track any little money that you received in evening after work? When such mandatory implants become standard, you will find that even a few bucks or a shared beer will become recorded as earned income & be taxed. Your decendants will have no other choice. Besides, at the time that they are born in 2102, they will have become accustomed to becoming stunned unconscious, just because an asshole cop decided to search them for drugs.......---:confused:

Everything that I have proposed is absolutely possible and will happen, unless the people of the world take steps to assure that it does not happen.

ps.. Of all of the other things that I was going to write about regarding this, I neglected to say "thanks" to SJMARSHA for posting this subject. Although I do not agree with you SJMARSHA, you have definately opened up on one hell of a topic! Seldom are there subjects at Sciforums that truly deserve so many opinions & replies. Well done & thanks again for bringing this subject up.:) This is why I am a Sciforums Junkie:cool:

:(

As far as punishing criminals---

For the most part, it is cheaper to educate people who have ran afoul of the LAW, than it is to imprison them. Since the majority of criminals are uneducated and have resorted to crime as the only known way to live, then I have to wonder if the good members here at sciforums would still be living as the same wealthy, happy, law abiding citizens, if they were born into the impoverished and hopeless situations that most convicted felons are now trying to climb away from.

The fact is that not one of you could absolutely be sure that you would not be a criminal today if you were born into the kinds of situations that so many impoverished people are born into. When you have mommy & daddies money, a guaranteed college education, and rich relatives to fall back on if you are a total fuck up, it's pretty hard to understand the motives of a poor person who has not even one parent. If any of you believe that you deserve to be at the top, then wonder about somebody who may well have three times your brain potential, but never caught a break.

The true answer to crime is NOT punishment, but a chance to become educated. Canada has the best system that I have heard about, while the USA certainly ranks toward the bottom. Besides, what good God Damn Fucking Good does it really do to punish a criminal? Revenge for the victim? If that is the case then why not just let everyone carry guns & shoot the other guy when he feels that he has been wronged? Sounds like the same kind of revenge to me.

Penetentiaries are now known as Correctional Facilities, not Revenge for the Victims' Dungeons. It is highly ironic to me that a person can advocate high technology for the purpose of reducing crime, yet the same person is in favor of punishing another lifeform that is simply trying to survive according to the skills that are present during it's maturation cycle. It's like trying to convict a lion because it ate an osterich!:bugeye:

After reading all of that I have a few things I would like to add.

1)Perhaps the word electronic tagging has confused the point. I should have said electronic tracking. Which would encompace retina scanning etc.

2)I'm a Bloke not a woman.

3)There are only two ways of stopping crime. 1)Kill all criminals,
2)Equalise the living conditions.

OK! The second option will NEVER occur because of people like Dark Master who only think of themselves.

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------If you want something to work, think more realistic

I could say the same to you. Just because you have an opposing view doesn't mean that it isn't realistic.

"Kill'em, who cares, one less criminal to worry about."

Thats exactly what I am saying.Just put nicer.

No one is worthless, YOUR idea was worthless.
Moving closer and closer to that personal insult. Go on drop to the level of a 12 year old.

Simple minded blockhead.
OOps there it is.

That sounds like dictatorship, and you don't go suggesting you would just kill people like that
Yes it is a dictatorship. Why not?They have commited a crime. Other countrys already have the death penalty, why not extend it here/everywhere?
you sound very simplistic through your way of thinking
Some might say the reverse.

If none of this has ever happened to you...then why are you so worried about criminals... As in you would sacrifice everything, even innocent lives to have this world criminal free.

I never said i would sacrifice innocent lives. Just people who have commited crimes, so they would no longer be innocent would they? Why should something have to happen to me for me to realise that it is there? Now you are sounding single minded.

So you would kill her too?

Yes of course I would. and my dad, my girfriend whoever.

And this is proof you are thinking selfishly

Nope. You are thinking selfishly. I am thinking for the whole world. You are thinking about individuals.

I already voiced my opinion with Chosen. Retina scan. Peace.
with Chosen?doesn't make sense to me. However retina scans fall under the same bracket.
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
"Surgically implanted devices will prevent crimes."
No, such implanted devices will not prevent crimes any more than dialing 911 emergency will prevent any crime, unless the crime is being committed in a police station, next to the dispatchers desk, right across from the coffee & donut table!


Yes it will in the long run. The first crime will be commited, then the police will catch the criminal (as they know where they are at all times) and that criminal will NOT reoffend. hence crime prevention.

Stunning technolgy
I would not want this implemented. as you have already stated the bad points.

When such mandatory implants become standard, you will find that even a few bucks or a shared beer will become recorded as earned income & be taxed.

Sorry i didn't say that would hapen. BUT perhaps it is a good idea.

what good God Damn Fucking Good does it really do to punish a criminal? Revenge for the victim?

No NOT revenge. PREVENTION OF MORE CRIME!

You know what. I already stated my position and points. I'm not going to waste my time with your selfish thinking, harsh decisions, and unrealistic world. Maybe if you suggest tracking that is NOT in your system, which would be a much better idea. The retina scan is a much better and SAFER idea :D But no, you didn't even change anything to YOUR suggestions, that is in the point to have people accept your ideas, change it so they are satisfied.

I don't even like, rather hate, your FATUOUS "send everyone to death" crap. You are truly foolish.

How impassive...even would kill your family for your idea that isn't even going to work. Let's say you have a son, then your son steals? You would sentence him to death? :bugeye:

Now you understand what I mean yet? Or are you still quixotic in thinking?

Quixotic, the meaning of such a word: Caught up in the romance of noble deeds and the pursuit of unreachable goals; idealistic without regard to [b]practicality.

Practicality means no ones going to accept those death sentences of yours, or otherwords UTTER CRAP, UNLESS you change them.

Can't believe you even brought up stealing a simple chocolate bar, and that person be put to death. Utter crap I say.

See why I would reject such a harsh, ILLOGICAL, unemotional, solution. And that is all I do not like about your tracking. It must be out of the human system and better sentences must be thought up, instead of those senseless death sentences.

Well your idea may work, provided life is like hell and the majority of people commit crimes, but certainly people will not accept YOUR solution to the crimes not worth killing a precious human life.

is ther anybody here with a good imagination that can think of friendlier ways 2 eliminate crime?


is ther anybody here aware how much energy, food, water, and other natural resources is wasted in this country?

is anybody aware how insanely abundant our resources are and how we are just throwing almost all of it away?

could wasting all of these natural resources b correlated 2 wasting human resources?

would putting a stop 2 nature abuse and using our resources more efefectivly make us more productive as a collective society?

how would it affect crime?


let me know if anybody is interested in some stats on how much we waste.

In Queen of the Damned Akasha's plan was to elimenate 90% of all males to make eternal peace on earth

well dark master you are going around in circles. Think of a new argument. I had already stated in my last post and I qoute from my previous post...

1)Perhaps the word electronic tagging has confused the point. I should have said electronic tracking. Which would encompace retina scanning etc.
----------------------------------------------------------

Dark Master----but certainly people will not accept YOUR solution to the crimes not worth killing a precious human life.

But how many lives in Africa, how many in Afganistan could be saved if we didn't have to support these criminals. Yes life is precious, but again I would always choose an innocent life over that of a criminal.

I donate to charity, but I wouldn't donate to a prison?!? or a prisoner rehabilitation scheme.

People will accept what I am saying because it will greatly increase the living standards in EVERY country in the world.
--------------------------------------------------------------
is ther anybody here with a good imagination that can think of friendlier ways 2 eliminate crime?

Yes I can. Equalise the living conditions. If everyone at this moment in time was willing to give everything they own to the government. Then with this money the government should knock down every single house and rebuild them all identically. Everyone gets the same TV,stereo,food, everything!

I can garantee that crime would be reduced dramatically. Nobody would have anything that anybody else didn't already have.Hence, gratly reduced crime rates.

is ther anybody here aware how much energy, food, water, and other natural resources is wasted in this country?

I do not know which country you are talking about, but in the UK I use the same amount of electricity in a day that 100 africans use in a year.

would putting a stop 2 nature abuse and using our resources more efefectivly make us more productive as a collective society?

I am going to say YES!

let me know if anybody is interested in some stats on how much we waste.

Yes I wouldn't mind. Either PM, Email or post will do.

well dark master you are going around in circles. Think of a new argument. I had already stated in my last post and I qoute from my previous post...



quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
1)Perhaps the word electronic tagging has confused the point. I should have said electronic tracking. Which would encompace retina scanning etc.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


----------------------------------------------------------

Going around in circles? I have debated with you and have gotten nowhere to even budge that emotionless mind of yours. Why do you think I have stated my position and points???...AND said it is useless?!? Duh. Like I said a waste of my time. :rolleyes:

You do not understand my view point or how mindless your "death sentence" is, and yet you have not even mentioned a word of revising it. So how am I going in circles when you can't even answer the question? Well it is said that dense people need things to be reiterated for them. :D

No human is perfect, I believe a world is balance with everything. Good, evil, everything must be balanced. Of course it may tip or favor one side a bit, but still, the other must exist. As for evil, coming from human instinct, which is selfishness, will always exist in us humans. To survive, many of us will do ANYTHING, to eat we may steal, to gain status in society or live an easier life through cheating we may do, it is all selfish to the good of oneself.

Rid the world of crime, which is basically trying to rid the world of evil. And to do that with your idea of forcing the trackers on many, will kill many. As Avatar explained, in the Queen of the Damned, Akasha's plan was to eliminated 90% of the males for peace. What you are trying to do, is quite similiar.

Now let me ask you this, is it worth the price???...90% of the males?!?!

Through doing what is BEST for us, it not exactly GOOD for everything else. Although it is possible, but in this case not yours. :)

But for the sake of argument, I already mentioned this implicitly.

Will your tracking system still be injected into the human body???



--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Dark Master----but certainly people will not accept YOUR solution to the crimes not worth killing a precious human life.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------



But how many lives in Africa, how many in Afganistan could be saved if we didn't have to support these criminals. Yes life is precious, but again I would always choose an innocent life over that of a criminal.

You don't get my point. Just shut the your mindless trap already. An innocent life over that of a criminal??? Uhhhh of course I too would do that. But have you been listening to anything I have been explaining???

And what is this about Africa and Afghanistan, please be more specific if you want to explain something.

Innocent as in not even worth the effort to eradicate someone because of a little thievery. Innocent of YOUR punishment.

Innocent as in people who do NOT want to be injected (are you still for injection to the human body?) with the tracker, since, as you explained, the many that will NOT want the tracker will simply DIE.

Understand my explanation of how I used the term innocence???

I donate to charity, but I wouldn't donate to a prison?!? or a prisoner rehabilitation scheme.

Me too. Although if I was rich, I would donate to educate the poor. (Spend some money to educate that mind of yours too and teach you human and family value. :D) Aussieoriginal's solution, which I prefer. :D

People will accept what I am saying because it will greatly increase the living standards in EVERY country in the world.
--------------------------------------------------------------

quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
is ther anybody here with a good imagination that can think of friendlier ways 2 eliminate crime?
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------



Yes I can. Equalise the living conditions. If everyone at this moment in time was willing to give everything they own to the government. Then with this money the government should knock down every single house and rebuild them all identically. Everyone gets the same TV,stereo,food, everything!

You are retarded "communist thinker." What makes you think people will do that? AGAIN quixotic.

Now I miss arguing with the practical few. :D

I can garantee that crime would be reduced dramatically. Nobody would have anything that anybody else didn't already have.Hence, gratly reduced crime rates.

Yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah..... Your solution will work, HA to only reduce crime. Through reducing crime you will sacrifice many other things, WHICH AGAIN IS NOTTT WORTH IT. But you think people will accept that?!?! Probably mindless fools like you and the many uneducated that are lazy and have poor standards. That is why you work for what you earn. And ever read the book The Giver. Yes a adolescent book, but it teaches a valuable lesson. To live in a perfect world would be sacrificing too much, yes in the Giver almost EVERYONE has the same things. And do you know how boring and RESTRICTED their life is.

And when a human life is in boredom, you know how worthless they feel??? Of course you don't because you seem to not know much view points or even openminded. I for one will never want that. You work for what you deserve and I believe people are placed where they should be.

Lazy and uneducated = low living standard

Hard working, educated oneself = better then average living standard.

Understand? We can only help the poor educate themselves, hence show them the path to take, but it is solely TO THEM to improve their life. Babying people like you do will only cause more problems. Too liberal in thinking.

Other problems conflicting from your solution. TV companies, EVERYTHING will be monopolized etc. BECAUSE everyone will have the SAME items as you described. How will we improve our technology? Who would want to if everything is that same??? Such a restricted life right?

Another flaw, next idea please. (Just like basically all your other ideas :D but hey, AT LEAST you thought of one ;) )

I DONT HAV MUCH TIME SO ILL TALK ABOUT FOOD


U.S. department of agriculture america:

production: 356 billion pounds of edible food per year

ends up in landfills each year:
96 billion pounds of all edible food
(130 pounds of food per person per year)
including:
16 billion pounds of milk products
14 billion pounds of grain products

annual value of food lost: $31 billion


would u say i was an evil dictator if i said we should illegalize meat, milk and animal products?

1. health reasons: they do nothing but damage to the human body.

2. animal abuse: there r no laws protecting the rights of live stock. none. look at any animal rights website and u’ll see some mind blowing stuff on physical and psychological torture (torture a mild way of putting it) of chickens, cows, pigs, etc. that we use for food.
it would probably cost 200 times more money to care humanely for these animals that we use for food. we r eating parts of tortured slaughtered animals.
this brings me 2 the third point.
3. economic reasons.
(im not going 2 get into the first 2 reasons here. this discussion relates more to economy and waste of resources.)

3. ECONOMIC REASONS why animal products should be illegal:
51.75% of us land is used for food production.
45% for raising livestock.
6.75% for growing crops.
45 + 6.75 = 51.75
about 90% of these crops produced are used to feed animals
producing 1lb meat: 2500 gal water
producing 1lb wheat: 25 gal water
producing 1 hamburger patty:
water for 17 showers
55 acres of rainforest
fuel to drive a small car 20 miles

garbage: livestock and dairy industries in the US produces 130 times more trash than the entire world human consumer population produces.

if we weren’t feeding livestock, the crops yielded in the u.s. alone could feed the entire world population 3 times over.

Now let me ask you this, is it worth the price???...90% of the males?!?!

When did I say that?

90% of all reported crime in the uk is committed by 100,000 people. We have 56million people living here. Do you see my point yet?

Will your tracking system still be injected into the human body???

For F*cks sake read your own post. you even qouted my answer to this question!

Just shut the your mindless trap already
Do you always answer with insults?

have you been listening to anything I have been explaining
Yes I have. If you think I do not under stand then please explain like a nice person would. Don't just throw insults around.

the many that will NOT want the tracker will simply DIE.
What makes you think that? Why do you think most people will reject it. I would say that it is around 50/50 slpit so far in this thread. Get your facts straight mate.

Spend some money to educate that mind of yours too and teach you human and family value.
Do you always answer with insults?

You are retarded "communist thinker." What makes you think people will do that?
Do you always answer with insults?

Again to dramatically reduce crime. Are YOU listenening to me?

Your solution will work, HA to only reduce crime
Am i the only one who doesn't know what HA is?

Probably mindless fools like you and the many uneducated that are lazy and have poor standards.
Do you always answer with insults?

What makes you think that I am lazy and uneducated? I am at university like you? just because I am in a different field to my idea. If I understand you it isn't in your field either, therefore you are just as uneducated in this idea.

And ever read the book The Giver
No I haven't. But I hate to tell you this....but what happens in a book doesn't necessarily happen in real life. Its called Fiction.....

You work for what you deserve and I believe people are placed where they should be.
Now thats a very narrow minded idea.
You accuse me of not thinking of individuals, and yet you do exactly the same. Are you saying that those people in africa who are starving to death are there because they are lazy?!?That they deserve to be there?!? Grow up man. It isn't always like that.

How will we improve our technology?
If we can lift other countrys out of poverty there will be millions of more scientists. All working towards the perfect living conditions, i.e advancing technology.

AT LEAST you thought of one
Exactly. I do not see you having any good ideas yet!

We already have nigh-universal medical procedures for young people here. Vaccinations. At 18 many of us enter a feederal database of drivers and voters. Wow, the government has information about us! The medical system has information about us.

How is having a chip implanted different from all that, in principle?

How does having such a chip implanted make us criminal suspects, when al those other things do not?

I would rather live like a suspect than as a victim.

When did I say that?

90% of all reported crime in the uk is committed by 100,000 people. We have 56million people living here. Do you see my point yet?

If you can read, I made a comparison with AVATAR's thoughts of the Queen of Damned and the 90% of the males she wants to elminate for world peace. Yes I see your point, but stillllll your tracker is not needed. I have a better suggestion. Do you see my point? :D


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Will your tracking system still be injected into the human body???
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For F*cks sake read your own post. you even qouted my answer to this question!

"For f*cks sake" you haven't answered my QUESTION. Show ME WHERE I QUOTED YOU that you stated that your tracking system will no longer injected into the human body??? Here is the closest quote to you answering your question from where I quoted you.

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well dark master you are going around in circles. Think of a new argument. I had already stated in my last post and I qoute from my previous post...



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1)Perhaps the word electronic tagging has confused the point. I should have said electronic tracking. Which would encompace retina scanning etc.
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You seriously don't know how to read and write your own crap. And you seriously have some pathetic debating skills. You amuse me haha. :D

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have you been listening to anything I have been explaining
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Yes I have. If you think I do not under stand then please explain like a nice person would. Don't just throw insults around.

Yeah yeah, I'll be nice from now on :) (no insults) Since insulting the other only makes them more stubborn, but it was fun while worth it.

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the many that will NOT want the tracker will simply DIE.
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What makes you think that? Why do you think most people will reject it. I would say that it is around 50/50 slpit so far in this thread. Get your facts straight mate.

Ok, let's keep it simple since you have a simple mind.

Cons: Adam, Dark Master, Walker, Giller, MRC_Hans, AUSSIEABORIGINAL, Chosen, Nightfall, coolskill

Which probably means, I believe, most of the world will reject it. ;)

DAMNNN I don't even need to name the pros. That is clearly over 50%. SO no not 50/50. And "I, sjmarsha, would say" is an ASSUMPTION, and ASSUMPTIONS ARE NOT RELIABLE AS FACTS. So Get YOUR facts straight "mate". :D

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You are retarded "communist thinker." What makes you think people will do that?
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Do you always answer with insults?

Again to dramatically reduce crime. Are YOU listenening to me?

AGAIN it is simply not worth the RISKS. Technology, companies that will fight for monopolization, MONEY; and I believe rich people and above average people, even average people will not be for it, I could go on and on....but...first...ARE YOU LISTENING TO ME?

I have already debunked that "reduce crime crap" and stated my valid assumptions, even could be facts, that why people will not do that. So LISTEN, because I am already LISTENING to you.

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You work for what you deserve and I believe people are placed where they should be.
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Now thats a very narrow minded idea.
You accuse me of not thinking of individuals, and yet you do exactly the same. Are you saying that those people in africa who are starving to death are there because they are lazy?!?That they deserve to be there?!? Grow up man. It isn't always like that.

Ok I stated other opinions to back up my claim. As in we can help those who need help, educate them, assist them, but CERTAINLY not baby them and GIVE it to you. IN that, they will not value hardwork, education, and they will simply take. You believe people will improve that way. Of course we can give some, food etc, and education. BUt supplying EVERYONE with the same crap is not going to work.

I cannot blame the Africans for the position they are in. As I stated we can help them, but giving to them like that will only create more problems as you can see. Will the AFricans know how to use TV? The advanced technology? Will they learn to appreciate the houses? Are they even educated enough to use it? Would they even know this "program" of yours? What if someone abuses them because they do not know much? EDUCATION is VALUABLE. They might even abuse it. So thus, we cannot give EVERYONE the same thing. Simple as that. I have already debunked so many of your views, and yet you show no improvement. SO YOU NEED TO GROW UP.

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AT LEAST you thought of one
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Exactly. I do not see you having any good ideas yet!

HA, as in "HAHAHA" gettt the meaning now??? ;) Good. ok.

HA, I can think of one in a SEC. Watch and I guarantee it will work better then yours. RETINA SCAN! And for retina only one opposed, any long term effects on that eye? And for yours almost COUNTLESS :D You can tell a good idea from a bad one ;) But hey there's always improvement which you don't even suggest. Ok wait..another one.

Carried personal tracking device withhhh special buttons for many situations!!! For only $299!!! (Improved by Dark Master throught sjmarsha!)

1st button for "HELP!!! I MIGHT DIE!!!"
2nd button for "Something is suspicious, check it out :eek:" Thus society can help with crime prevention.
3rd button for "I feel uncomfortable, but I will try and avoid, locate me and help me if you can."

I could elaborate more add more etc, improve, but I believe that is sufficient enough to PROVE A POINT TO YOU. With this personal, preferbly very small and blah blah someway to hide from the criminal. Preferbly to YOUR skin color for camouflage. Simply press and button and the nearest officier with their technology will come to your aide. In the situation they will come. Better then officiers cruzing around looking for crime right? If you have people help it is much better. Good crime prevention, or to catch criminals right there? OF course there can be many improvements, but personally, it is a good idea. Then if your really in stress, you can turn on audio listening for the nearest cop to here, and therefore determine the risks and rush!

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And ever read the book The Giver
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No I haven't. But I hate to tell you this....but what happens in a book doesn't necessarily happen in real life. Its called Fiction.....

It's called a story, a moral to learn from. It's called contemplate more on what we, as people, do that will affect society...it's call showing an example....it's called for the benefits are we willingly to outweight the risks?...its called learning from a story, author's thinking....its called...its called.......PEACE ;)

ok ok, these posts are getting tooooooo long. I can see that my two ideas have become crisscrossed and are now confusing everything.

My point about the africans was that you were suggesting that everyone gets what they deserve. My point was that that depends on what country you live in. If you lived in Africa you would not be at uni would you? no matter how hard you worked.

Your idea about the retina scanning has been incorporated into my tracking system, and i qoute myself...
After reading all of that I have a few things I would like to add.
1)Perhaps the word electronic tagging has confused the point. I should have said electronic tracking. Which would encompace retina scanning etc.


As for your GPS button pressing thing. It is a good idea, but simpler versions are already available and it will not bring the same benefits as the tracking system.

The idea of a tracking implant is both totally foreign and totally uncalled for. Taking AUSSIEABORIGINAL's idea a little farther, it would not be out of the question to experience a mass knockout several times.

Say a "suspected criminal" is loose in your vicinity, there will always be the idiot that says, "Let's stun them all and sort out the mess later." So you wind up that later may be a day or two. Surely you do not mind in the interests of justice...

And what if you are starting down the long winding stairway when this comes about? Do you get lucky a few days later and wake up in the hospital? Or a worse example, you are toting your child when this knock out comes and she/he is injuried in the fall. After all justice seems to be the prime motive. Are you ready for this?

Technology has a way of outrunning laws. Usually by the time the are laws on the books to protect you it is because someone has been victimized. Many someones in order to get the attention of the lawmakers.

I have to say that it is a bad idea. The tax situtation is another that was brought up that I think would be just a matter of time before it was applied. Whether you realize it or not the taxes removed from your earned money is far more than it should be. You can not make money nor spend money that it is not taxed. This chipping away at your disposable income has become so prevalent that it is thought to be unamerican not to pay. I say it is the equivalent of legal highway robbery. It comes straight out of your pocket before you ever see it. It is at too high a rate and you really have little choice in the matter. Expenses are so high today that it is rare that both parents are not working just to afford what they need.

taxes removed from your earned money is far more than it should be.
CORRECT!

ok ok, these posts are getting tooooooo long. I can see that my two ideas have become crisscrossed and are now confusing everything.

Your ideas were not confusing, you just presented them wrong. And it wasn't confusing to begin with, your idea is just not widely accepted :D We have another con, Wet1. It's good to know that there are still sensible and practical people out there. :p

My point about the africans was that you were suggesting that everyone gets what they deserve.

Not exactly. Everyone deserves what they worked for. The way you reword it makes it seem traducing. And I also explained the many exceptions of people that may need help in situations like this, which already covers the idea and to me, seems very valid and rational. So you came up with your point for no reason because I have already thought it out, that is what happens when a person excogitates more on what they say. :)

My point was that that depends on what country you live in. If you lived in Africa you would not be at uni would you? no matter how hard you worked.

That is why I brought up education and aide for them. Read above.

Your idea about the retina scanning has been incorporated into my tracking system, and i qoute myself...

Uhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh...why WOULD you need retina scanning if YOUR "technology" already KNOWS where they ARE?! :eek:

Doesn't make ANY sense to me. It's one or the other. Having both would waste much resources. And if your tracker was external to the human body, it would be somewhat useless. Therefore the retina scan is superior.

As for your GPS button pressing thing. It is a good idea, but simpler versions are already available and it will not bring the same benefits as the tracking system.

Simpler versions are already avaible? As complex as mine? Camouflage material??? Stop assuming please because you know what the ASS in assumptions are. :)

And tell me this, how would it not bring the same benefits as the tracking system?

Your tracking crap can't bring the benefits mines can, and almost everyone is against your idea! haha

You press a button on mines, you know where trouble is or might occur. While yours, all you have stated is interal/external tracking with nothing else but by keeping watch over people you can't even see

My idea has a tracking system and if something happens, they will be tracked down.

But in YOUR case, if someone dies, you'll just find the body, BECAUSE how will you know if they were killed?!

Crime prevention huh!!! :bugeye:

At least my idea has a CHANCE of stopping that crime. :D

You make no sense again...and...again...

Please read what I have posted S..L..O..W..L..Y.

Uhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh...why WOULD you need retina scanning if YOUR "technology" already KNOWS where they ARE?!
My point was that I am for tacking peoples posistions. I do not care how you do that. i.e.retina scanning. (wouldn't work in country side), implants anything...

Simpler versions are already avaible? As complex as mine? Camouflage material??? Stop assuming please because you know what the ASS in assumptions are.

WTF are you saying. Yes simpler versions are used by ramblers. If they get in trouble they push a button and can be found easier. Same idea used by people who go cross country skiiing.

As I said, they are simpler than yours. Please do not stress points that I agree with in such an aggressive manner.

Whats this about camouflage material. What good would that do?

And tell me this, how would it not bring the same benefits as the tracking system?

You have to push the button. Understand?

But in YOUR case, if someone dies, you'll just find the body, BECAUSE how will you know if they were killed?!

Have you read what I posted?!? I agreed that to begin with the crime rate would NOT drop until the criminals are caught. If everyone has a tracker you can work out where everyone was at the moment of the crime (which can be calculated) and then arrest the criminals, (and possibly kill them).

Then there will be hardly any criminals left, dropping the crime rate dramatically. You would not have to kill that many people, as as soon as people realise that they WILL get caught they will not commit the crime. If they do then there is another example for other potential criminals.

Please read what I have posted S..L..O..W..L..Y.

Sorry I don't need to meticulously analyze a post like insensible people do. :)

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Uhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh...why WOULD you need retina scanning if YOUR "technology" already KNOWS where they ARE?!
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My point was that I am for tacking peoples posistions. I do not care how you do that. i.e.retina scanning. (wouldn't work in country side), implants anything...

You don't get it do you. Why have both? It's like possessing two shoes, but one is better by opinion. (retina scanning) If you can't understand, it's either your pretty pathetic or I feel real sorry for you.


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Simpler versions are already avaible? As complex as mine? Camouflage material??? Stop assuming please because you know what the ASS in assumptions are.
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WTF are you saying. Yes simpler versions are used by ramblers. If they get in trouble they push a button and can be found easier. Same idea used by people who go cross country skiiing.

Hmm...is that idea pertaining to crime prevention? That is what my idea is used for with better benefits and advancements. What you are saying is irrelevant. I mean this WHOLE discussing is about crime right?

So WTF ARE YOU SAYING :bugeye: :D

As I said, they are simpler than yours. Please do not stress points that I agree with in such an aggressive manner.

Yes they are simpler, but are they for the same idea???

Whats this about camouflage material. What good would that do?

You see, if you present an idea for crime prevention and that it goes to public, along with many adds and commercials.

Isn't that technology going to be maybe known by criminals also?

So with the ability of camouflage, the criminal will have a ardous effort to find it; therefore wasting the criminals time searching for it, and increasing the time the cops will be there to prevent the crime. :D

And if you want to counter it with what if the public abuses it's abilities. Simple, one-time and your out. Meaning, you press the distress signal and the cops rush there, and then nothing is wrong. The cops will simple avoid your signal the next time, their lost. ;)

Of course I could elaborate more, and there will be more flaws and obstacles for this, but I believe never as many as yours. :D


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And tell me this, how would it not bring the same benefits as the tracking system?
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You have to push the button. Understand?

First of all, how stupid are you??? Communication is a VERY good way to prevent crime, mines also states the danger level. While yours just tracks. And you think if criminals commit a crime they will still be doing it with a tag? Many will REMOVE the tag.

Like I stated, you'll only FIND the dead body or find them abused and possibly in a detrimental condition. And plus they already have trackers for INDIVIDUALS who WANT to be tracked. Tracking every INDIVIDUAL by tagging will not work, because they can simply remove it and people will OBJECT to it.

So for your idea, they HAVE SIMPLE VERSIONS. :D And it can't be internal because that idea is DEBUNKED and DISMISSED.

Face the truth already, my IDEA is better then yours.

"Understand!?" :D

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But in YOUR case, if someone dies, you'll just find the body, BECAUSE how will you know if they were killed?!
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Have you read what I posted?!? I agreed that to begin with the crime rate would NOT drop until the criminals are caught. If everyone has a tracker you can work out where everyone was at the moment of the crime (which can be calculated) and then arrest the criminals, (and possibly kill them).

Then there will be hardly any criminals left, dropping the crime rate dramatically. You would not have to kill that many people, as as soon as people realise that they WILL get caught they will not commit the crime. If they do then there is another example for other potential criminals.

Don't even mention internal trackers, please, for your sake. ;)

Trackers can be removed fool so your point is praticially invalid. Yes I have been listening, but sad to say I'm about to fall asleep. :rolleyes:

So forget all this. This will be my last post concerning this matter. I'm wasting my brillant ideas and wasting my time. It is useless arguing about ideas. It's getting nowhere because you are going nowhere. You can't really think things out clearly. Maybe you should put your ideas to test and let them SLAM back into your face, with the way you think. So don't even bother to reply, this is my last post. Sick of arguing and I just...don't...want...to...stoop...to...your...lev el. Arguing with fools will make you a fool.

Looks like it has succeeded, at least in this case.

it's all been tought of, it's all covered allready,...
take a look at this SITE (http://adanet1.adacomp.net/~mcherney/delgado.htm) for example,...

it's easy to concieve other toughts on this one,....twart them towards a global organisation of slaves,...that we definately are,...didn't you know the rich get richer (without doing anything for their gettin it) and the poor get poorer (whilst running and working and paying their asses of).
here's an exerpt:

'In patients, brain stimulation during surgical interventions or with electrodes implanted for days or months has blocked the thinking process, inhibited speech and movement, or in other cases has evoked pleasure, laughter, friendliness, verbal output, hostility, fear, hallucinations, and memories. Delgado et al. 1952, 1968; Penfield and jasper, 1954; see bibliography in Ramey and O'Doherty, 1960.'


I'm telling you: with implants this life becomes totally obsolete, and not worth fighting for anymore,...

LONG LIVE FREEDOM! *fukushi blows up the databanks that behold the worlds virtual money* (that are garded more then a nuclear bunker!)

For crying out load!!! You are not reading my posts properly Dark MAster. IT clearly states that I do not care the tracking method, just as long as people are tracked. NEVER have I said anything about using both at the same time. I have said that both could be used. That is different.

Your button system has the same flaws as my tracking system. I would not want to rely on a system that requires me to 'push a button'.

So WTF ARE YOU SAYING
I am pointing out that they are already available and used for a number of different things. Including the above.i.e. your idea was not original.

Which is what I asked for.

Maybe you should put your ideas to test and let them SLAM back into your face, with the way you think. So don't even bother to reply, this is my last post. Sick of arguing and I just...don't...want...to...stoop...to...your...lev el. Arguing with fools will make you a fool.

You are the most arogant, self centered dick head I have ever had the misfortune to communicate with. You don't read what I post properly. You use the same arguments over and over, personal insults all over the place, when asked to producce a better idea, you come up with the idea of retina scanning an idea which has all the flaws you have been arguing against.

and to top it all off there is an insult. Are you really 18 or are you lying? you sound more like 13 to me.

I am GLAD that I have the option NEVER to talk to you again!

Fukushi->

I'm telling you: with implants this life becomes totally obsolete, and not worth fighting for anymore,...

I just cannot understand that line of thought. Why does it become obsolete?because your movements are recorded in a database? or is it something different that I have missed. Please elaborate and explain.

You don't see the need for entropy yet do you?
A human needs freedom and space to think and live freely,
otherwhilst he's no more then a laboratory rat!


Electromagnetic technology is a new emerging weapon with significant importance to international politics. Electromagnetic technology has been developed internationally as a weapon of war for at least forty years, but it has been highly classified.(Pasternak,1997). The weapons are designed to target any and every nerve of the body including the human brain. There are many independent sources that verify this little-publicized fact. "Research work in this field [directed energy weapons] has been carried out in almost all industrialized countries, and especially by the great powers, with a view to using these phenomena for anti-materiel or anti-personnel purposes." (Doswald-Beck,1990,18). ..."[U.S.] scientists, aided by government research on the 'bioeffects' of beamed energy, are searching the electromagnetic and sonic spectrums for wavelengths that can affect human behavior." (Pasternak,1997,38). A 1993 Defense News article entitled "U.S. Explores Russian Mind-Control Technology" described "acoustic psycho-correction, the capability to control minds and alter behavior of civilians and soldiers..." It uses "transmission of specific commands via static or white noise bands into the human subconscious..." The article further stated that U.S. and Russian sources were planning "...discussions aimed at creating a framework for bringing the issue under bilateral or multilateral controls".(Opall,1993,4). These are just a few examples of the dozens of articles available on this topic.

Hundreds of people in the US and Europe claim their government is experimenting on them using electromagnetic and neurological devices. This is a concerted effort of all technologically advanced countries to ultimately gain total control of every person on earth.
I guess you would like to be a prisoner ,....

For crying out load!!! You are not reading my posts properly Dark MAster.

I am very competent in analyzing your posts. But it's ok for imbeciles like you who DO NOT know what they write (too many grammatical errors along with SPELLING ERRORS) . Here is where I will prove you utterly wrong. I hope you will LEARN when to shut up. :mad:

And yes, cry you big baby.

IT clearly states that I do not care the tracking method, just as long as people are tracked. NEVER have I said anything about using both at the same time.

Oh really you BIG babyyy :bugeye: Here are the three things you have stated concerning this matter, and I will ultimately prove your fallacy.



My point was that I am for tacking peoples posistions. I do not care how you do that. i.e.retina scanning. (wouldn't work in country side), implants anything...



Definition of tacking (v) - to ADD as an extra item; append

Ok, sjmarsha, in your first sentence it says, "My point was that I am for TACKING peoples positions." When means, "My point is to ADD peoples positions." (keyword tacking, maybe you spelt it wrong from TRACKING, but AM I SUPPOSE TO KNOW? Haha, you IMBECILE) THEN, LISTEN NOW!, THEN the next sentence says, "I do not care how you do that. i.e. retina scanning."

WHERE does it say "IT clearly states that I do not care the tracking method, just as long as people are tracked."

Point 1 - PROVEN FALSE (due to your FUCKEN poor english and SPELLING ERROR) :D

So DO NOT even IMPLY "IT clearly states..." Pathetic fool.

This VERY amusing. :p



Your idea about the retina scanning has been incorporated into my tracking system, and i qoute myself...

After reading all of that I have a few things I would like to add.
1)Perhaps the word electronic tagging has confused the point. I should have said electronic tracking. Which would encompace retina scanning etc.



Definition of INCORPORATED - To UNITE (one thing) with something else already in existence.

Definition of ENCOMPASS - to CONSITUTE or INCLUDE

Ok, in both these sentences I see you CLEARLY indicating the you are UNITING and INCLUDING retina scanning into your idea.


"NEVER have I said anything about using both at the same time"


Point 2 - Another PROVEN fallacy. :D

Ohh! Ohh! and here is also where I have proven you wrong in a previous post.



"For f*cks sake" you haven't answered my QUESTION. Show ME WHERE I QUOTED YOU that you stated that your tracking system will no longer injected into the human body??? Here is the closest quote to you answering your question from where I quoted you.


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well dark master you are going around in circles. Think of a new argument. I had already stated in my last post and I qoute from my previous post...



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1)Perhaps the word electronic tagging has confused the point. I should have said electronic tracking. Which would encompace retina scanning etc.
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You seriously don't know how to read and write your own crap. And you seriously have some pathetic debating skills. You amuse me haha.



Hmmm....why didn't you reply to this... :bugeye: BECAUSE you are proven WRONG on YOUR own ENGLISH! HAHAHA. God, and now again, as above, you are proven wrong in YOUR OWN ENGLISH! Pathetic I say, pathetic. A PITY actually. :D

Now will you SHUT up???????????

You don't read what I post properly.

Uhhh...(read above please!!!) So EXCUSEEEE MEEE!!! :D

I'm telling you: with implants this life becomes totally obsolete, and not worth fighting for anymore,...

LONG LIVE FREEDOM! *fukushi blows up the databanks that behold the worlds virtual money* (that are garded more then a nuclear bunker!)

Thank you Fukushi!!! (again another con sjmarsha, when will you quit? :bugeye: Or TOO stupid to quit :D)

Dark Master -> Can't be bothered. I do not read dictionarys.

Fukushi ->
advanced countries to ultimately gain total control of every person on earth.I guess you would like to be a prisoner ,....

No I would not like to be a prisoner. Which is why I would accept electronic tracking. The way this world is going we will all be prisoners in our homes before long. Which is why we must take a stand against criminals.

A good example of the increasing crime levels and lack of police, I heard of today.... Someone I met, her grandson had been saving up for over a year for a new bike. He took it down the park, and within half an hour of him getting his new bike it had been nicked... and the police, basically t