Egypt's role in the Arab-Israeli conflict

They're playing both sides. On the one hand they present themselves to the west as the only party through which to communicate with terrorists (HAMAS, PIJ, etc.), the only party which has clout and influence on these terrorist entities, and the only party that is trusted enough by both sides to be the mediator... be it re: peace talks, negotiations re: kidnapped hostages, etc.

And on the other side they have to show the Muslim world that they're not entirely Zionist, so they turn a blind eye on HAMAS smuggling in advanced weapons into Gaza (except the rare destruction of some tunnels). Egypt also has its own interests to take care of - mainly to keep the Muslim Bretheren quiet, which is one of the reasons they allow HAMAS to smuggle those weapons into Gaza.

http://www.ynetnews.com/articles/0,7340,L-3516715,00.html

It's a nice niche Mubarak has carved for Egypt - be everybody's friend. What he's doing though, essentially, is that he keeps feeding other people to the tiger in the hope that the tiger will eat him last.

 

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egypt, like iran, is funding terror.

just the other day they sent a helicopter to test our defenses.

 

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You can have Hamas as your comic book villains. But what should Hamas do? What wise advice good you give Hamas. If they do terror, that achieves nothing. If they stop doing terror, that also achieves nothing.

Egyptians would like to help Gaza. But how to help? Egypt needs the money that the US bribes them to do nothing. But doing nothing feels wrong.

Israel's situation is no better. What solutions could Israel try? How can Israel feel safe?

It just is not as simple as you would like things to be. Giving Israel what Israel wants is not a solution. There really are no good guys and bad guys. Hamas is not really bad guys. They have the responsibility to fix a bad situation that they don't have the ability to fix.

Pretending that Hamas is bad and Israel is good accomplishes nothing.
But no realistic plan will accomplish anything. Who could make unrealistic plans turn into realistic plans? How can anybody even hope for unrealistic plans to be considered when most people just want to turn the others into comic book villains? Long term, I think it would be better if we started by just being honest about what the situation is.

What is the dishonesty good for? Making the world seem simpler and less scary? Pretending that there are viable solutions? Building consensus for ruthless victories in which one side wins all and the other side loses everything? Or just feeling superior? I might also be a little guilty of liking to feel superior.

Good luck with what ever it is that you want.

 

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i disagree. if hamas would give up the violence, change their ways, surrender their guns, and prove to us, so we can believe them this time, their aim isnt terror, then things will change.

but alas, that will never happen-not until we will root them out by force.

 

The mere fact that you wrote the above nonsense makes the following question pretty redundant: are you fucken serious???

HAMAS ARE a comic book villain. Just check out what they do in the strip. You've gotta see it (twice) to believe your eyes.

As to what they should do, stop their homocidal and suicidal cult, which is pretty much what the entire world (including Arab governments) has been asking of them, except Iran and its proxies of Syria and Hizballah.

 

Egypt have a strong military, a war between the two today could, along with other forces, result in a victory or at least truce. Remember, during all of the conflicts it was Egypt in '48 and '73 that did the best (second to Israel in '73).

 

The main problem is that, although their tech is pretty good, they have alot of different suppliers (US, China, Russia) and that can lead to disorganization on the battlefield and it will be difficult to maintain all of it.

 

I hear Hamas is relatively honest. I don't blame Hamas for kicking the Abbas and other forces out of the Gaza strip. Hamas won the election so Abbas/USA/Israel should not have tried to disloge Hamas by force. Hamas's claim that they do not attack Israel, they only defend the people of Gaza by retaliating against Israel's attacks is about as true as Israel's claim that they do not attack Gaza, they only defend the people of Israel by retaliating against Hamas's and others attacks.

So what are you talking about? Is Hamas flogging people that flirt with the opposite sex like the Saudis do? Do you disagree that Hamas is relatively honest as far stealing goes? Do you not agree that Hamas was in the right when they defeated the Abbas/Israel/USA Palestinian militia that intended to militarily defeat Hamas and ignore the election results?

Is Hamas raping people? I never heard any one say that Hamas is raping? Are they stealing? What are you talking about?

What have you seen with your own eyes?

 

Well, for one instance, Arab-speaking Mickey Mouse and Bugs Bunny lookalikes telling kids to kill Jews and sacrifice their life for God.

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Not the more abstract "resistance", or "liberate our land" terms, but very specific, explicit and bloodthirsty "kill the Jews" (and Danes) and "die for Allah".

Come on, I can't wait to see you fall all over yourself trying to rationalize that one

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Another thing is that the Arab mentality is "rule by the fist". You're talking about a mentality that is very resistant to change, macho, and aggressive. I picture some geek in glasses coming up to a general and telling him "sir, I think this would be better instead", and getting his teeth broken as a response.

But tech wise, Egypt has almost the same toys that Israel has. That was the price that Sa'adat has put for him accepting Israel's existence. A war between Egypt and Israel today will not be pretty... that's for sure.

 

Certain things should not be tolerated. You speak of change, not all change is good.

 

What do you mean?

 

For instance, while development (change) is good, change in culture is not always good. I think society is starting to forget its roots and forgetting tradition, faith, and now instead we have liberals everywhere wanting to legalize everything. They are just selfish, changing absolutely every damn thing. We should have a more traditional, conservative society and respectable society.


For instance, in Israel:

The Israelis didn't even want the filth marching in their streets, but what happened? LIBERALS just fucked everything up.

We shouldn't tolerate this sort of behavior. I compliment the Haredi for standing up for his faith.


This is a sort of change I am talking about.

 

If the IDF would give up violence, remove the barbed wire and checkpoints, change their ways, and prove to us, so we can believe them this time, that their aim isn't terror, then things will change.

But alas, that will never happen, not until millions more die needlessly due to DU rounds, airstrikes, and ambulance killings.


It takes more than one party to change in order to bring about peace. In this case three, the US needs to stop sending arms to Israel. You've proved you can defend your self, no need for the Western aid.

 

How wise of you, oh elder statesman. Shit, if you continue spewing such wisdom you'll make it as the chief of the UN one day

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I agree with that general statement entirely. The difference is how we apply it to the facts on the ground. No matter how many ridiculous peace overtures the Israeli government offers, no matter how many humanitarian gestures it allows despite the relentless terrorism, it's all useless unless the other side reciprocates even a little. They should start by not attacking religious students having lunch anymore...

I know, it's too much to ask. But maybe it's the ultimate proof of racism and prejudice of HAMAS supporters - they believe that HAMAS and Company are simply mentally incapable of doing that. That they are emotional zombie creatures that don't have the capacity or good sense for civil dialogue behind a table. You've been exposed, Islamophobes!

 

Israel, like USA, is funding terror.

just the other day they allowed Turkish armies to kill Kurdish people in North Iraq.

 

Away from the demagogues, and back to the topic:
http://www.ynetnews.com/articles/0,7340,L-3517166,00.html

Another example of Egypt showing the world, "look, we're relevant, give us money and support our regime!".

On the one hand they're Muslim enough, as evidenced by their friendship and clout with HAMAS, but on the other hand they are a "useful friend for the west" as they "pressure" HAMAS to agree to a ceasefire.

Who are the Egyptians, a friend or a foe in the fight against global terrorism? What kind of treatment would they be getting from the world, and particularly the USA, with out this special niche role they have carved out for themselves?

 

Egyptians are their own nation 90% are muslim and only 10% are christian ... and how does the "western world" handle muslim nations? with exception to Saudi Arabia that has drowned in black gold, the muslim nations are advertised as evil.

 

Russia has been engaged in genocide against Chechens. Over 160 thousand Chechens were murdered in the last 10 years. Israel has killed less than 5% of that number (8 thousand) in the same amount of time. So please be quiet. You don't have the moral authority to judge Israeli actions.

And do me a favour, stick to the topic about Egypt.

Thank you and have a great day! :m:

 

allright than I'll stick to the topic, you just delete that Chechen-Russian stuff because all of it is lies anyway, a lot of Russian soldiers died and Chechens killed themselved off.

 

Lies? Man, don't even get me started about "lies" and "sources"... Let's start a topic about Chechnya

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I'm eager to hear what the local OCD sufferer has to say about her dear oppressed Muslims, and what all the local lefty loonies here have to say about a situation when a [genuine] oppressor is not the US.

Anyway, back to Egypt

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