Concider this

If what is real is defined as whaat we see touch... interpret by our brains, then wouldn't dreams be real? Pesonally I think dreams are each an indiviual world where we want to think we are god. In dreams every thing is centered around you. In this world alot of stuff os centered on religon.

Then when we are controling our dreams we get tio do the stuff that we want. We do things how we want. We have all power in our dreams. If we try to manipulate things in our dreams we do.

I recalla dream that i had, I was in a war, and was shot right in the forehaed, i felt the "pain" or tried to, then I died. After several moments i decided that i didn't want to be dead yet, so i got up and became a rambo like person. needless to say i won the war.

But i think that we all have our own worlds that we are god of, sorta.

Anything in your mind is as real for you as anything else in your mind, so in that way a dream is as real as a waking moment. Awake or asleep, either way you're experiencing the perceptions in your mind. It's just that when you're awake the perceptions are more forced, caused by the senses.

The most important distinction is that dream reality relies on the other reality: if you dream that you've died, you can revive yourself or just wake up... but death when you're awake prevents you from ever being able to dream again.

A dream is just a meta. It's as real as a mirrage on a dry desert bed.

Although you mind is what is used to compute, and realise the world within reality. A dream is much like that of a television screen, flat and dettached from the reality of life.
(apart from the news of course)

A dream is the mergence of memory and fantasy, mixed with a dash of residual energy from the days consciousness. As your body undergoes it's re-caliberation during rest, each molecular change is made into an apparition within your dream world.

Thats how dreams are suppose to be, natural and unboundered.

<I>Although you mind is what is used to compute, and realise the world within reality. A dream is much like that of a television screen, flat and dettached from the reality of life. (apart from the news of course)</I>

I think the point Ender is trying to make is something of an idea popularized by the movies ‘fight club’, and ‘The Matrix’ which brilliantly combined action, macho-ism and entertainment with these exciting ideas about transcendence. Reality is nothing more than electrical signals interpreted by the brain. The brain is merely an apparatus that is supposedly only capable of five senses and an enigmatic intelligence that reaches a critical mass we call mind. And indeed there is much warranted cause for speculation that there is a whole lot more to the ‘mind’ then was once thought. Set aside any prejudices you may have and consider OBE’s, NDE’s, LD’s and things of this nature (sure they are simple to explain away, but first hand-experience goes along way to making a person to at least consider the possibility that our understanding of the mind and how it works still has a long way to go). It is also cause for wonder about the wild pace of theory in cosmology and physics and how modern TOE idea’s tend to be more puzzling than theistic notions. Non-local realities, bound up dimensions, infinite universes, infinite parallel universes, illusion of time, illusion of space to name a few.

It is interesting that you bring up the television set analogy, because a lot of idea’s involving metaphysics like to compare the television set and the brain as being similar, in that they interpret and communicate reality and are in no way responsible for the creation of they’re interpretations and communications.


<i>A dream is the mergence of memory and fantasy, mixed with a dash of residual energy from the days consciousness. As your body undergoes it's re-caliberation during rest, each molecular change is made into an apparition within your dream world.</i>

True, but there is still no reason at all that a person should be conscious during this process and posses the ability to recall it (as well as depend on it). Moreover, there is still no reason a person should be capable of controlling the mergence of memory, fantasy and residual energy from the day’s consciousness (ala LDs). The experience of dreams means whatever you want it to mean and in the end opinions are just as good as guesses, at this point that's all their truly is on the subject. Often, psychological descriptions tend to tell us more about the psychologist than the subject (at least in Freud's case). And I believe this too be true in all disciplines when attempting to quantify the existence of mind. Although I am no expert in this reality I am progressing to the point where I can see clearly the inner world of dreams independent of outside dogmas and prejudice. I have reached the understanding that in the experience of dreams alone, one sees no reason for this physical world to exist at all. I’m still quite puzzled over the discrepancies of a neurological description of mind and free-will.

Originally posted by Fathoms
I’m still quite puzzled over the discrepancies of a neurological description of mind and free-will.

Note that by definition neurological descriptions are of the brain, not the mind. The best physicalist attempts at describing the mind involve macroscopic quantum states and interaction of bozon fields... very much unrelated to the studies of the brain, which all deal with the causes of the mind... and of course the inability to say why we're aware of the bozon field interaction but not of the neurons is a reason why many philosophers prefer a modified theory that includes a mental aspect generated by the brain.

No theory satisfied enough to describe about dreams, yet.
So, feel free to make a guess about it. :D

Concider this

IN order for a theroy to be made then there must be a practical use for the theroy.

So really the only way to figure out if something could be a throy, then the would have to be a practial use for the thing you are theroising about.

This would mean in order for a theroy about dreams to be made, then there would have to be a practial use for the dreams. It would seem to me like there is really no pratcial use to a dream.

The practical use is that we go insane if we don't dream. :D We just don't know the reason for that very well.

Besides, there are plenty of theories about things that have no practical use.

You might want to take a look at my dreams thread in Human science forum.



bye!

Ender,


This would mean in order for a theroy about dreams to be made, then there would have to be a practial use for the dreams. It would seem to me like there is really no pratcial use to a dream.The latest theory I saw last year was that dreaming corresponded directly with increase protein production in the synapses.

The synapses are the chemical connections between neurons in the brain. During waking hours the proteins in the synapses are consumed. It seems the dream state is when these proteins are replenished.

This can be further supported when it is realized that hallucinogenic drugs directly affect the synapses by altering their behavior. It makes sense that if the protein content in the synapses changes (replenished) then the behavior of those synapses will also be temporarily affected during that process resulting in mild hallucinations, i.e. dreams.

This also explains why going too long without sleep and dreaming will result in insanity. In effect the brain ceases to function correctly because of exhausted synapses.

Cris

Zion,

I'll post in your dreams thread as well.

How do we know that THIS is not all just a dream and when we go to sleep we don't ACTUALLY wake up.

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I remember thinking as a child that life was just a series of dreams and that one day we will wake up in a crib after we 'die' in our dream world, and then go through that life nad 'die' wake up in another life as a child...

I would rather live in my dreams. Not having to experience physical laws or other restraints of reality is profound. I love how my mind can also fool me into believing they are real, but than again, how do I know that they aren't real?:)

You know it isn't real because things in the world can jolt you unwillingly out of dreams, while specific events in dreams don't tend to jolt you out of waking life. (Of course if you're tired you're dragged out of waking life, but not by any particular thing.)

Also you'll know it isn't real when you observe that dreaming of death doesn't stop you from having a waking life while death in waking life prevents you from dreaming.

Also you'll know it isn't real when you observe that dreaming of death doesn't stop you from having a waking life while death in waking life prevents you from dreaming.
Who says you can't dream when your dead:D

Actually it is amusing to note that Dreaming activity registers a tremendous increase during dying moments.

Take a peep at intelligence and machines in thread answer me,you"ll find good information.
PS:THANKS FOR POSTING CRIS.I KNOW ABOUT YOUR THEORY LONG TIME BACK,THOSE WERE DAYS WHEN I AND OTHER GUYS IN SCIFORUMS WERE MISSING YOU TERRIBLY.;)

bye!

KMGURU,
ARENT YOU GLAD OUR IDEAS ARE REALLY BEGINING TO CATCH UP:D

DESIGNED FACADES ETC...ERR...YOU KNOW WHAT I MEAN.
BYE!

Hey guys you might also want to take a look at whats in tour dreams thread(yeah he misspelled it as "tour" instead of "your")in free thoughts forums,its a wonderful thread and gives whole set of ides with its big set of replies...

thanks.

bye!

Originally posted by zion
Actually it is amusing to note that Dreaming activity registers a tremendous increase during dying moments.

And there's a tremendous decrease in that sort of activity in the brain in the moments after death. ;)

Anyhow, at least we can all (I'd hope) agree that it's much more common for something in the waking world -- say, a nice electrical shock -- to wake you up out of a dream than it is for a dreamed electrical shock to cause you to fall asleep.

Im dreaming all you people, prove im not:D

Can you see me now??????????????

Concider this

You can't.

If you have vivid dreams about the end of the world, would you be considered a prophet. Just, wondering.:)

Concider this

Maybe if they come true?

Yes, of course if it comes true in your life time I supose. Other than that I quess you would have to right it down.;)

Dreams are messages projected by your subconscient into your conscient (when you remember them) that talks about an experience that you had, you are having or you'll have. It's a Pscicological definition... ;)

You allways dream but sometimes you don't remember. That's because your subconscient didn't projected the dream into your conscient, but to itself.

Dreams are created by your Highter Self, that tries to teach you, ego, something about your life or giving you a direction to take or warning about something that you should or shouldn't do...

They sometimes are literal, being classified as prophecies, but usually are simbolical, sometimes being classified as prophecies as well, depending on the time the dream talks about. The simbolicals have religious and beliefs implications. They are molded in your beliefs in order for you to understand it easiarly.

Want them to be interpreted? I can try... ;)

Love,
Nelson