so, is freedom of speech better than controlled thoughts.

etc,
freedom of speech : you can speak your mind
controlled thoughts : everybody thinks alike and the goverment or what ever moderate those thoughts.

Of course control is better.
Why do you even ask?

We are the collective WESdom :D

Freedom of speech. Although this doesn't exist anywhere...you cannot say most things you think nowadays.

k, if the goverment could read minds then ...

Would you agree with me and say that those who are loyal to the goverment have nothing to fear
Or would you rather not want the goverment to use it

???

Well, the government could use this skill to get at look at the problems and shortcomings each citizen has each day. Thus it might be possible to solve these. I do not think that mind reading capabilities should be used oppress the people. No one can totally conform with the government, as a result many would get punished.

If the government could read minds, they'd make it illegal to think certain things. This will mean a totally oppressed society where no-one is free. Freedom of Thought is pretty much the only true freedom we have.

i do not agree.

if everything is controlled to the maximum (of course with strict laws even for mind control) then freedom of speech is unnecesary.

If the government could read minds, they'd make it illegal to think certain things. This will mean a totally oppressed society where no-one is free. Freedom of Thought is pretty much the only true freedom we have.


*logically unsound starts coughing suggestively*

thor does not fit in dreamwalkers WES belief. Dreamwalker wish to have world domination, just as me. Thor wishes Power to the People.

Right?

Although in the Are you a Facist poll dreamwalker claimed not to be a facist.

Freedom of speech does not imply lack of government or media controlled thoughts.

Au contraire.

nah, of course. Freedom of thought might be a better line.

I do not need to be a facist to archieve world domination.
You see, I do not totally agree with you Baal.
Just because I do not entirely support freedom of speech
I am not a facist. You do not know how I plan to
establish my world government.
I could make it religious or communistic.
There seriously is no need to accuse me of
being a facist.

no, of course you are right. Control is not a synonym for Facism.

Although you wish to be a dictator, or?

Not necessarily. Dictatorship might be a possibility.
Alas there is the definite possibility that the
people will follow me out of their free will.
I might also use an oligarchic system.
It can even work with democracy.
Or a monarchy, yes, crown me king of the world.

what system do you want (political standing)

I do not yet know.
I´ll just have to watch how democracy
works out. It´s rather new.
Perhaps one should also think
about a not yet existing system
since many systems faltered in the past.
Judging from this there have to be
faults in those ideas.

surley they want the system that the borg employs with one queen (coughcough) and everyone else is equal and the same and things.
however, the queen would only be 'boss' cause someone has to do it.
in this case wuss-1 would be the queen casue everyone is modelled after him, etc. anyone else could only act as a regent, but then the whole system would come crashing down, so by way of continuing the order, they would sacfrifice themselves for the good of the collective to becoming meaningless drones.

Oh come on man, what I wrote was halfway serious.

But of course, wes is a nice system too :D

Is this a joke thread ?

I dare say that the freedom of speech (if by doing so I do not violate rights or initiate
force on another) is a corollary of my right to live life unrestricted and unrestricting to
others, so long as my liberties don't impede on those of another individual's.

"Freedom of speech is required for liberty because without the freedom of speech, you can not persuade others of what is right and what is wrong. Without the freedom to persuade others, only force can make people act in a particular way. It is an important check on government because it allows transgressions to be identified and fixed rather than hidden and perpetuated."

this thread is only a joke where it concerns wes.
Also any posts by Unsound and my answer can
be neglected.

huh? no, my answer was a serious comment on the way wusses chould be governed. of course, wuss-5 is just a drone, so ignore him of low rank.


seriously though, i think free thought is undeniable, and free speech is good, but only to an extent. i dont like people trampling through the street saying thigs like:
"send those fucking nigggers back to the carribean to make my drinks"
thats just not right.

huh? no, my answer was a serious comment on the way wusses chould be governed. of course, wuss-5 is just a drone, so ignore him of low rank.


seriously though, i think free thought is undeniable, and free speech is good, but only to an extent. i dont like people trampling through the street saying thigs like:
"send those fucking nigggers back to the carribean to make my drinks"
thats just not right.

Indeed,

Freedom of speech is highly overrated. It is one of those american fantasies.

freedom of thought is fine though, what i was basically saying is predujice is not right, but unaviodable, whereas discriminaction is unforgivable, etc.

It´s not only American. We also got freedom of speech. As far as I know we can say nearly everything. We also do not get fined for cursing in public :D

But do not deny the holocaust, that could get you into problems

as said above in more general ways.

i still say, down with freedom of speech

It´s not only American. We also got freedom of speech. As far as I know we can say nearly everything. We also do not get fined for cursing in public :D

But do not deny the holocaust, that could get you into problems

Here too..as can racist remarks.

Well, sadly those are allowed. At least to some extent.

i still say, down with freedom of speech

you know, its only freedom of spech thats letting you say that.
if we didnt ahve if you might get shot for such a subversive comment. ;)

no shit sherlock

that is exactly why i say it

????????????????????????????????????

you know, its only freedom of spech thats letting you say that.


Not so. We can say that too.

When people say 'Freedom of Speech' they really mean 'You can think what you like but say anything against us and that's libel/slander and we'll take your asses to court, bitch'.

It's a good thing you have freedom of speech! Otherwise, you might very well find
yourself unable to discuss it... ;)

Freedom of speech is a falsity, at least in Britain. You are 'free' to say what you want but as long as it isnt to do with racial beliefs, companies or anything for which you can get sued or arrested for. To describe 'freedom of speech' as controlled freedom of speech would be more accurate.

Today freedom of speech seems to be in jeporday by the antics of our news media and other trashy magazines that seem to make up their own way of how the truth is actually happening. They like to tell everyone tales of extremes and bizzare happenings just to sell their crap. Lying to them comes second nature and there's where freedom of speech has been endangered. We hear from the media nothing but hype and sensationalism about everything that happens, so where's the truth that freedom of speech is supposed to be preserving? It has been thrown out along with freedom of the press which too was compromised long ago by our gestapo news media.

I would have to say that the poll is poorly worded, both freedom of speech and controlled thoughts are important.

I agree with CosmicTraveler, the modern media is perhaps the greatest danger to our freedoms in existence. They shape and mold us even as we shape and mold them. Unfortunately, they even shape the way we shape them, so our power is limited to control them. Eventually, the media must be reined in. I don't know what's worse the yellow journalism of the past or the sensationalist journalism of the present. At least the newspapers are still relatively free of sensationalism, probably because few read nowadays.

Newspapers are giving themselves away these days. I have had free subscriptions to the newspaper multiple times. When they finally stop delivering because of nonpayment, they wait a few weeks then the calls for another free subscription start coming in. I even tell them I still owe money from before and they don't care. They'd rather have a greater distribution than be paid.

Stop buying newspapers and turn off the TV! That will sure catch the advetisers attention if everyone would do that for a week or two.

That would be cool. But I really doubt that one can convince an adequate amount of people to do this. (sadly)

of course aggressive actions could take care of that, (although i am not suggesting anything at this point)

a friend of mine has thrown out his TV because of the low intelligence level of the movies, shows and especially the hosts of some shows :)
I would do the same but i like watching the Discovery channel and a Simpsons episode once or twice (call me old fashion, but what the heck)

Most newspapers spin every story they have in them, dramatizing and lieing about even the most insignificant story. I would class these newspapers as tabloids but unfortunately most people regard everything in them as the truth. Most broad sheets are not so bad, but they still put a political angle on the stories they choose to publish.

I agree that they are a threat to freedom of speech (whats left of it) as they use the excuse that their stories are in the public interest and therefore this gives them the right to print just about anything.

Recently, one of the newspapers in Britain, the Mirror, printed falsified pictures of Iraqis being abused by what it appeared to be British soldiers, the chairman resigned, I think this incident got alot of people thinking about the accuracy of the media which was a great thing to happen.

:)

A quote from Aqua Teen Hunger Force--"I thought you didn't like television, Frylock?" "Yeah, but we fuckin' NEED it!!"

I'm a television junkie, I tend to just keep it on as background noise most of the time. And do generally just watch documentaries and some comedies.

What ticks me off about cable is that I pay for digital cable and still I am inundated with advertising. Not only from the various stations, but built into the tuner itself. Plus, the digital tuner changes channels very, very slowly so you are forced to watch the advertising for longer periods of time. In the pre-digital age, I bet I could flip through 2 channels a second easily, and get a good idea of what was on each channel. Sampling.

I remember I threw off the yolk of television for awhile as a youth. I had run off for a few months and lived in dirt poor conditions, grew accustomed to not having television. When I returned home, I carried this mentality with me. My mom was freaked out that I wasn't watching tv all the time and kept cajoling me to put a tv in my room, finally I succumbed and haven't been free since.

your kidding right?

What, me kid? Absolutely not. If you find it odd that my mother should want me to watch television more (a concept often portrayed otherwise), you shouldn't. Television roots you. Without television you are free to move around. You don't have to worry that "your show" is coming on in a little while. It is a control mechanism. Of course, the serpent is subtle, but it's effects accumulate over time.

i bored of this thread, but i cant leave it or wusses will consume it.

i thought i could not leave it for the wusses either but atleast Dreamwalker seems to agree with me.

Control is better than Freedom.
Freedom within Control is the future i want to bring about.

well get on with it then.

in reference to my previous question how far have you got with that manifesto of yours?

the manifesto is merely a small part. If i can get enough allies then i am talking about actually making blueprints on underground bases and such. I am talking about staging coups to overthrow goverments and possibly use them to starts wars and when the world is as weakest then introduce our system of strict control.

Till i can get enough allies then i will continue working on my AI and inventing other "stuff" that we possibly could sell to fund our opperations.

so how far exactly?
*pushing for proper answer not filer information*

the manifesto is complete. (although it is completely made by me so i reckon as others join it will change a little. (more people, more plans.))

you mean youve done everything in the manifesto, or youve finished WRITING the manifesto

thought it through. not everything is in text yet. maybe 80% of the WRITTEN manifesto is complete

lolololololol


mclol

FREESPEECH IS THOUGHTCRIME. FREESPEECH VAPORIZED WES. GLORIOUS EMPIRE ENDED BY FREESPEECH.


http://www.shooshtime.com/usergallery/albums/userpics/obey%20wes.jpg

That poster is awesome. I feel the need to rejoin the collective. Must... refuse... the urge....

*holds invert back*

We must be strong brother!

FREESPEECH IS THOUGHTCRIME. FREESPEECH VAPORIZED WES. GLORIOUS EMPIRE ENDED BY FREESPEECH.

NO, ME!!!!!

The government controlling our thoughts is just a horrible idea. We would be reduced to simple lab rats, and let's just spare the details.

What do you mean "would"? We are lab rats. Where you been, man? :D

I wouldn't say the government would control out thoughts. They'd filter them, which I know is like controlling but it's not. They'd only allow thoughts about certain subjects to be allowed. If this were to happen we'd have little or no sex, no crime, no good movies, hardly any feelings...hell, I wouldn't mind someone stealing my hi-fi if I could watch a good movie!

Free speech is really an illusion. At least in my opinion. Those who do believe they posses it, I do doubt you. Can you really say everything you want?
I mean, it is not only the government who restricts free speech. We limit it ourself, or are some of you really without fear? Can you really say what you want? Most are bound by social, religious or emotional ties and are unalbe to really experience free speech.

I doubt that our lifes would be so incredibly entertaining if we all posses real free speech. I think it my be disastrous.

thats what i said, but with a practical.

there are some pro's with having mindless drones. However not all, the inventors (and those who propel the society forward (class 1 on my list)) they should not be controlled, they need to think freely.

Guess that about 80% disagree with what i say :)

Well, being a drone is not that much fun I have noticed
rather recently.

But controlling them ???

Dunno, you have to ask wes(morris) about that
one I guess. I do not have his
experience. :D

maybe, except you wouldnt get much of a reaction, and theres no point in controlling them if EVERYONES a drone.

actaully, what you should do is make a few drones think they are forming a resistance and then you could have like a really cool war type thing, until you got bored and made them normal drones again.

Unsound, your ideas sound as your name

that jokes getting a bit dull.
ill let you off though.
you all get to say it once and thats it.

nah, if everyone was a drone, what would you do with them?

i previously said that Class 1 will not be drones

o yeah. but what would they do.
dont you think theyd all feel sorry for the drones (after a while of being served by them)
and start a rebellion?
maybe

They should rebell for their slaves??

:) of course they would stage a coup against themselves

nah, i mean after a while they might get sorta sympatheitic and things towards them. younkow, like in films.

then youd get a load of activists out of your lawn, trampling your flowers and holding signs saying;
"FREE MY SLAVE"

you wouldnt like that would you, WOULD YOU?>?????

I think the possibility of such an occurence would
not be very great.

yeah, it would be great wouldnt it?

yeah, you get 'equal rights' people at some point wouldnt you?

but unsound, why do you believe that you would be apart of Class 1?

When i watch movies i do not cry when sad things occur. What makes me sad is when men of honor sacrifice their lives to save others but what really makes me sad is when digitial animations are treated badly. Creations that you cannot do anything to help is the once i feel bad about.
Class 3 would have a better life than most unemployed these days.

i never said id be part of class 1.
i was just raising a point.

I am not saying that they would be living on the streets beging for money as you walk by. Thier lives would be controlled so that they could not rebell. (it will be like rome but it will not fall from within)

Is the world better now than during the glory days of Rome?

(minus, the technological advantage we have today of course.)
Purely politically!