hey y'all, i got a real dilemma here. One of my good friends is lusting after this boy, who's 11. and he looks and acts it. She's serious too. She is 15. this is a moral issue.....Is it bad? Is it really paedophilia? Is it wrong? I've been feeling very confused about it, on one level, she's my friend, on another, she's a paedohile....or is she? Any insights would be greatly appreciated....

She's still just a kid herself, it's perfectly fine. Four years may seem like a long time to you now, and I suppose at that age the differences tend to be more exaggerated, but there's nothing terribly unusual about it. Oh, but they're both too young for any sexual activity, so it's wrong in that sense, but really only if she did anything about this desire :p damn kids, nothing but bags of raging hormones.

damn kids, nothing but bags of raging hormones.
That's just supposed to be kids?

Thats irregular to say the least. And I kind of want to be outraged because you just know a 15 year old boy with an 11 year old girl would be strongly looked down upon.
But then i put myself in the 11 year old boys shoes, I doubt he's going to be disturbed or harmed in anyway by such a thing. He'll just look back on it like "hell yeah".
My sisters friends used to do all sorts of suspect stuff to me when I was 8 and they were 13, when i look back I don't get upset or cut my wrists, I just get a hard on, so you know, its not that big of a deal.
The girl is still screwed up of course, like there is no reason to feel sorry for the 11 year old boy but it should still be noted that she's a perverted freak, just like a 15 year old boy that checks out 6th graders, its obviously not something she should be proud of.

Oh, but they're both too young for any sexual activity

But that's the thing...
She isn't.

this reminds me of the show everwood. ephram is 16 and madison is 20. same age difference. but in that case the character ephram is underage while she is not. it still doesn't seem like a huge difference. a 15 year old and an 11 year old are both kids and not that far apart in age, so it couldn't be pedophilia. but their friends would give them a hard time until they're both older.

p.s. i love that show

That's just supposed to be kids?

Yeah ok, so things don't change too much.

But that's the thing...
She isn't.
15 is an acceptable age for sexual activity in your opinion?

Not biologically but in your opinion?

"damn kids, nothing but bags of raging hormones." you can't blame kids for having excessive hormones, thats like blaming a baby for not being able to walk or talk.
15 is an ok age to have sex, and it wont warp you. At 11, you probably shouldnt be, so i think that going out is fine but going any further than kissing is wrong

daydream believer, your friend might want to check state laws to see if she could be
held criminally liable for statutory rape. In some states, she is beyond the age of
consent while the 11 year old boy is not. If the boy told his parents about the encounter, or they found out from someone else, the parents could have her charged
with statutory rape. A link to some state-by-state laws.
http://www.agi-usa.org/pubs/journals/2903097.html

daydream believer never mentioned anything about sex.

verify: does she want to have sex with the boy?

if not, what's all this nonsense about statutory rape? i still don't think it is since she's still a kid herself.

Yeah, I agree...I don't think statuatory rape is in question but that does not make the thought of sexual activity involved in here any less disturbing.

15 isn't an ok age for sex, hell at 15 most aren't even ready for a relationship. It isn't pedophilia by any means IMO since both of them are not consenting adults.

If I stand corrected then their must be a significant amount of age difference between the two for one of them to be considered a pedophile lawfully and one must be underage.

I may have assumed too much when I understood the 15 year old may have been thinking of sex. But read the first post...One of my good friends is lusting after this
boy...she is serious,too...is it really pedophilia? It is not uncommon for some 15 year
olds to be sexually active in some countries today. I agree it is not a good idea, but
it does happen. I had read another of daydream believer's posts in which she was
praising sex as being a good thing, that it would bring peace to the world. I do not know her
age, but assumed it was close to her friends. The age of consent is 16 in most countries, but it varies. In Mexico it is 12, in Canada it is 14, it varies in the US from
14 to 18 according to the state in which you live. I did not know where the girl lived
at the time of the post, but now I assume it is Australia, in which case it is probably
16 and not a legal issue as far as statutory rape is concerned, but is a moral issue.
In some cases, such as in some states in the U.S., if there is a three year or more
difference in age between a consenting adult and an underage minor, the person of
legal age can be charged if the minor's parents press charges. As I said at the beginning of this post, I may have assumed too much when I thought the girl might
be contemplating a sexual encounter. According to some studies I have seen, about
20-24% of females aged 15 have had sex. I don't know how accurate the studies are.

Ok firstly, 15 is the age most people are having sex at these days(harsh reality but true) legal or not is irrelevent, people are developing at a younger age than before and want to explore/express that, a few hundred years ago girls would be married at 15(or younger). Secondly most people I know were into relationships well before they were 15, my g/f got with me a couple months after her 15th and we are going great. Sex and relationships are about maturity, at 11 people dont have that, at 15 they do, its a case of waiting to see if in the future she gets sexual feelings for someone that young, then its creepy, otherwise, she's an average 15 year old being attracted to someone, regardless of age. :)

Okay, she wants sex from him, she wants everything from him. I do praise sex as a good thing and a great thing, but despite this, I'm a virgin. i say this coz I'm a pagan (wiccan) and sex is considered by this view point to be a really great thing, and I belive that it is. But underage, non-con or violent sex or hurtful in any way sex is bad. very, very bad. Bec (the girl in question) wants too much from this kid. Even if it isn't illegal coz they're not doing anything (yet), i'm still worried coz she is close to being a woman and he is a child. A little boy, he still plays "harry potter" with his friends for god's sake. It freaks me out.

Not like it matters but IMO a 15 year old and a 11 year old engaged in sexual activites is just wrong and unstable.

The parents need to be informed and step in and take action.

An eleven year old is a child, and has absolutely no business engaging in sexual relations. So to answer your question, yes, that's definitely pedophilia.

As for the 15 year old, that's a little young, but getting into that grey area where it's possible that a 15 year old could be emotionally prepared, but that still might not make it a good idea. I knew a few kids that started that young, and it's about 50/50 as to how they turned out.

Ok, call me a prude, but an 11 year old is still playing with toys. He's still a kid, a little kid. Way way too young to even consider a sexual relationship.

As for the 15 year old girl, can't she find boys her own age? What 15 year old girl (or boy for that matter) goes out with an 11 year old? Honestly, think back to when you were all 15, would you ever consider going out with an 11 year old? Maybe she's 10 mentally and can't get any better and desperation has led her to looking at little kids. And at 15, she too is too young to consider a sexual relationship, and yes I'm aware that they do happen and often, but it's still so young.

I don't know the best course of action here, but I don't think informing the parents
is feasable. First, I don't think daydream believer is likely to tell what she knows because she may think of that as betraying a confidence between her and her friend.
It would also create a very uncomfortable situation for all parties involved. Although she is young, it may be best to let daydream believer try to convince her friend that
sexual exploration with an 11 year old is not a good idea. It could very well come back
to haunt her in a couple of years when she is more mature. Ask her if she would be
embaressed if the boy told his friends what happened and the word got around. Actions that could cause a lot of regret later are best left undone. daydream believer,
I am sure you could think of many reasons to tell your friend why she shouldn't actually
act out her sexual fantasies involving the boy. Your friend would be much more likely
to recieve permanent scars than the boy.

That is good advice, 2inquisitive.

Well the point is she hasn't actually DONE anything right? In that case its fine... what does it matter if she has a crush on some little kid? It's not hurting anyone really.

ALSO daydream, the definition of a paedophile is an adult who is sexually attracted to younger children right? Look it up, thats the def., well SHE IS NOT AN ADULT, not at only 15... she'd have to be over 18, alright? So don't worry. If she acts on it kill her.

daydream believer is the only person on this forum that knows both people and is able to decide whether more damage will be done to the 11 year old by her silence, or more to her friendship by her telling. 15 is DEFFINATELY not too young for sexual relationships
stupid Lemming3k took my point that a little while ago people were married at 15, ill add that 13 and 14 were much more common ages and 12 was not too rare

"As for the 15 year old girl, can't she find boys her own age" i am a 15 year old guy, and ill be one of the first to admit that we as a general group tend to be a bit shallow, obsessed with sex and slightly selfish (reading over my own writing, we also dont like being called boys)

as for everyone talking about "age of consent", c'mon, this is an ethics forum not a legal forum. anyway, who would agree that an 18 year old and a 90 year old is acceptable? yet they're both over "age of consent"

Where does the word stupid fit into your post? you've put it before my name and im slightly confused of what you are trying to say(Are you referring to me even though i agreed with you?) if i've repeated what you said i apologise i may have missed your post by accident, i simply wrote my opinion.(i just happen to pretty much agree with you)

to the bozo who said 15 yr olds are not "ready" for sex:
15, 14, 13 and even 12 yr olds are "ready", mentally and phsyically for sex, im 14, i would know. i dont profess to be an expert on you elderly, so dont do the same to us young.

sorry lemming3k, i wasnt really calling u stupid, id just worked out what i wanted to say, then ud already sed it, so i had to think of something else. dont worry

harlu, damm right!

15 is an acceptable age for sexual activity in your opinion?

Not biologically but in your opinion?

15ofthe19's answer fits quite neatly into how I feel about it.
An eleven year old is a child, and has absolutely no business engaging in sexual relations. So to answer your question, yes, that's definitely pedophilia.

As for the 15 year old, that's a little young, but getting into that grey area where it's possible that a 15 year old could be emotionally prepared, but that still might not make it a good idea. I knew a few kids that started that young, and it's about 50/50 as to how they turned out.

Biologically, of course they are ready.
Emotionally, some are mature enough, some are not.
It all depends on your surroundings and your upbringing.

who would agree that an 18 year old and a 90 year old is acceptable? yet they're both over "age of consent"

Me.

Why not?

If they are happy, what's the problem?

Ever see "Harold and Maude"?
If you haven't, I highly recommend it.
I know it's "just a movie", but I think the sentiment rings true.

We've all heard of child molesters, but how about adult molesters?

I was 7, she was 18, I sat on her lap and kissed her on the cheek and she laughed at my cheekiness, that only served to encourge me, before long I had my arm underneath her blouse and was carressing her bare back as I kissed her tenderly on the lips. I don't know how long this went on for, perhaps a few minutes before she became kind of indignant and chased me out the room threatening to tell my dad about what I'd done. She did and he laughed. The important point that I remember is that it was I that instigated it and that for a few moments she did actually seem to enjoy it, even kissing me back on the lips, until she obviously realised that what we were doing was wrong.

to the bozo who said 15 yr olds are not "ready" for sex:
15, 14, 13 and even 12 yr olds are "ready", mentally and phsyically for sex, im 14, i would know. i dont profess to be an expert on you elderly, so dont do the same to us young.

Don't worry, I thought I knew everything, too, when I was your age. I was an obnoxious little brat. Let your elders assure you, most adults aren't even ready for a sexual relationship! If you think you're quite ready you simply don't realize the implications of the decision. You're young, and as these outbursts clearly show, not emotionally ready for that sort of commitment or attachment to someone. Don't think of this as an insult, it's just a fact about your particular place in social development.

Before looking to get into a sexual relationship, try first to master driving, and possibly getting a job and learning how to support yourself, these are more important skills that shouldn't take a back-seat to screwing.

We've all heard of child molesters, but how about adult molesters?

I was 7, she was 18. . .

This confirms my suspicions about most supposed cases of pedophilia. Michael Jackson, the catholic priesthood, countless "low lifes" around the nation. . . maybe we shouldn't be blaming the adults here, but instead we should be turning a scrutinizing eye to those slutty little boys.

Michael Jackson, the catholic priesthood, countless "low lifes" around the nation. . . maybe we shouldn't be blaming the adults here, but instead we should be turning a scrutinizing eye to those slutty little boys.I cannot find the case reference, but in the 1980s, a Wisconsin judge acquitted a man of molesting a three year-old girl on the grounds that she behaved promiscuously and tempted him.anyway, who would agree that an 18 year old and a 90 year old is acceptable?Maggie Kuhn. I highly recommend the PBS production Maggie Growls (http://www.pbs.org/independentlens/maggiegrowls/film.html).We've all heard of child molesters, but how about adult molesters?Hey, I learned to harass women before I knew why I was harassing them. I used to whistle at the women in Diet Pepsi commercials, and everyone would laugh. It's one of the benefits of not being popular in school that I never actually hurt anyone, but I was in high school before I figured out there was something wrong with acting like that, much less what it was.

General Comment

Absent from this or, generally, any discussion of youth and sexuality these days is a certain medical aspect that is very important. Certes we hear of HIV, HPV, pregnancy, and so forth, but there is also much evidence indicating that a human female beginning sexual intercourse at, say, the age of her first period, is not a wise idea. That they're old enough to bleed does not make them old enough to breed; there's a gray zone pushing around between 14 and 17 that says if a woman begins sexual intercourse before this point, she triples her risk of cervical cancer. Sex before a body is ready can be as bad as smoking for twenty years.

So despite the fact that I have seen 11 year-old girls appear shockingly mature, and despite the fact that we're rushing children to become adults in every other way while simultaneously sexualizing them in order to support our economy while actually trying to quash hormones (a losing battle to begin with), I think the true ethical consideration lies well-beyond the immediate questions of whether or not an 11 year-old is simply emotionally prepared for sex.

I like pot. I like smoking pot. I think more people should smoke pot. But f@cking up the developing brain of an 11 year-old with a joint a daily bong rip is simply rude and inadvisable.

Same thing with sex. I like f@cking. I think people should f@ck more. But f@cking up the developing anatomy and medical future of a child all for an orgasm is beyond rude and inadvisable.

In older times (into the late 19th century, at least) statutes existed placing a girl's age of consent at ten years old. In some jurisdictions you could buy their consent. Nothing about informed consent, nothing about maturity. Knowing that we could condemn a generation to battling cancer, should we go forward with what was good enough for older, more traditional American mores?

Eleven year-olds should only be screwed by federal education policy. And even that is a dubious permission.

It is true that in ages past 14 year olds were considered to be a prime age for motherhood. However, back then people also died at the age of 30, and huddled in fear of witches and goblins.

Saying adults are not ready for sex is BS, sex is connected to the instinct to reproduce, we are born with that instinct, we are ready as soon as our bodys develope because of that instinct, sex is one thing, sex as part of a loving relationship is different, theres an emotional connection for that, some people will never be ready for that but we all are ready for sex as a mindless act of reproduction as soon as our bodys develope. If someone who is ready for sex says they dont want it they are lieing(they may not want it with a particular person, but they want it, its basic human and animal instinct)

The thing still is, people, that no matter what this girl WANTS, she's not getting it... and so far as daydream has told us the girl has done nothing about it. So where's the harm if she leaves him totally alone? And it still ISN'T paedophilia because SHE IS NOT AN ADULT.

Contrary to poular belief, pedophelia does not imply action.
A pedophile is an adult that is sexually attracted towards children.
What age you consider someone to be an "adult", or whether age is even a factor in considering someone an "adult" is another question.

yeah, one_raven, but she's 14... i seriously dont think thats an adult...

"Saying adults are not ready for sex is BS, sex is connected to the instinct to reproduce, we are born with that instinct, we are ready as soon as our bodys develope because of that instinct, sex is one thing, sex as part of a loving relationship is different, theres an emotional connection for that, some people will never be ready for that but we all are ready for sex as a mindless act of reproduction as soon as our bodys develope. If someone who is ready for sex says they dont want it they are lieing(they may not want it with a particular person, but they want it, its basic human and animal instinct)"

that is not true. Or at least, many people arent ready for socially acceptable sex (ie, one partner) Many adults and teens cheat on their partners


one raven -
"Me.

Why not?

If they are happy, what's the problem?"

what if the 11 and 14 year old are both happy, or a 12 and a 30 year old?

will everyone stop bringing up Michael Jacksons name in Paedophilia cases, nothing was proved against him, leave the poor guy alone

Oh and daydream, the other thing i was wondering... if he'll 11, and looks it, and acts it. Then why the hell is a 14-yr-old attracted to him at all? Let alone sexually... doesn't that seem weird to anyone? Because if he looked old or was a rebel or advanced forward in school or whatever, then perhaps. But if he's just an ordinary little kid who plays Harry Potter then why?! (seriously daydream, answer that)

I wrote this a while back.
It is a true story, except that I was not on my way to Boston for a conference.
It isn't finished yet, but I think it expresses how I feel about the whole subject...

I was on a train once. I was on my way from New York to Boston for a conference. The train stopped just north of New York City to pick up a few passengers. The train stopping always jars me from my sleep, regardless of how tired I may be. I glanced at my travel alarm on the seat next to me and it read 11:43 PM. Curiosity got the best of me (as it often does) and looked up to see what interesting characters were boarding. A lovely little girl walked into sight and gripped my attention. She must have been about twelve or thirteen years old.
It seemed that her body had begun to develop a little earlier than typical. She had reached a precarious age. She had just begun to see boys as more than just annoying playmates. She had been thrust into a body that felt sexuality. People could easily make the mistake of calling her a young woman because she had the body of one. Her boobies had already become breasts. She had hips. Her newly discovered grace and sensuality was evident in everything about her. The way she moved. The way she stood. The boys in her class had discovered her body already. She had also already discovered her body. I can understand how people can see her as a young woman.
Just about every man in the world (heterosexual man, of course) is attracted to young girls. They don't like to admit it. They think that they are freaks, or that finding such a young girl sexually appealing would mean they are pedophiles. They do not realize that nearly all men in every walk of life feel the same way. People laugh and half-heartedly offer that Shakespeare's Juliet was only thirteen years old, but the fact is that thirteen year old girls are sexual beings. They are capable of reproducing. In various times throughout history, and in some modern cultures, thirteen is a perfectly acceptable age for marriage. It is obvious that our bodies were designed to be able to procreate that early. There is nothing to be ashamed about being attracted to young girls. So many men are attracted to tight firm little bodies because young women have them, not the opposite. Even more than that it is their innocence. They look at the world through un-jaded trusting eyes. They haven't lost that yet. You can look into her eyes and see every bit of who that child is. She is not hiding behind anything. She is not peeking out from behind a one-way mirror. She is simply who she is. No barriers. No false fronts. If you looked into the eyes of this girl on the train, she was unmistakably still a little girl.
The difference between pedophiles and the rest of us, is intention, understanding and compassion. The pedophile sees this wonderful innocent pure little girl. He wants to hold this precious gift. He wants to posses it. He doesn't really understand that by doing this, he is ripping away what he does love about her. He is breaking her. He wants to own this piece of exquisite purity. What he doesn't realize is that this part of her that he is so in love with is like a pair of butterfly wings. By even touching this purity it becomes damaged, and will never be the same again. The only way he can experience the beauty he craves is to take it away from her.
I sat there and wondered about this girl. I wondered when this gift of innocence will be ripped away from her. Not if, but when. I wondered who would be the one to do it. I wondered if her mother taught her right. I wondered if she was told, "Yes, you are very pretty, but that really doesn't matter. It is who you are, not what you look like that matters."

If someone who is ready for sex says they dont want it they are lieing(they may not want it with a particular person, but they want it, its basic human and animal instinct)

There's a big difference between wanting it and being emotionally ready for it. If you honestly think that all adults are inherently ready for the responsibility of a sexual relationship then my advice to you would be to go out and meet more adults. Better yet, talk to most adults about their first sexual encounter. With women especialy (I think men are more inclined to brag reguardless of the truth) you'll find that a lot of people regret having lost their virginity at the time ant to the person they lost it too, usualy saying that they thought they were ready but only understood later that they weren't.

If you read my post through i do mention that, everyone is ready for sex once they are developed, the emotional connection is something different, all adults are ready for sex, plain mindless sex, the emotional connection is something that you have/dont have with the person, its up to the individual to decide if they want an emotional connection, the reason people regret losing their virginity is because they didnt have the emotional connection, it was just sex, many people never will be ready for the emotional connection, some people even have a fear of it, many people lose their virginity outside of a relationship, or in a relationship they are not happy with. Speaking as a man i dont brag about my first time, in fact i never mention it(and no i dont regret it) i just dont like talking about sex with other people, especially something as special and private as that. I apologise if it wasnt clear in my original post what i was trying to say but the general idea is everyone is ready for sex once developed, the emotional connection is optional and mostly forgotten in the heat of the moment.

Well people, i don't think that Daydream cares anymore, as he has not read the last 2 pages of posts so let's all go to sleep.