We all know that Israel has benefited greatly from American patronage, whether its diplomatic support, military technology and assistance, or just plain old cash money, to the tune of 3 billion a year.

But what benefit has the US derived in return?
Anything at all?

But what benefit has the US derived in return?
Anything at all?
Nothing , in fact Israel has not even issued a thank you for all financial and military aid it has received from the American taxpayer .
US foreign aid to Israel (http://www.miftah.org/Display.cfm?DocId=753&CategoryId=4)
Inflicts great economic losses upon the American people

* Besides the roughly $8 billion in annual taxpayer money to Israel, there are hard to track forms of aid which have been causing great economic losses to the American people. According to the Central Bank of Israel, in the 1980's the US bailed out the Israeli banking system at a cost of $10-12 billion in military and economic aids. Congressional researchers disclose that this money was never paid back, and has been forgiven by the American government.
* The US's trade deficit with Israel is about $5-5.5 billion. This is due to trade imbalance between both countries. While the US pays real money for imports from Israel, Israel does not pay real money for its imports from the US. This costs the American people an equivalence of a quarter million jobs.
* In a similar manner, there are great losses to American military institutions. For every dollar of military equipment the US gives Israel, the US buys 60 cents worth of Israeli equipment. Only the difference here is that the US pays with real money, but Israel does not.
* The Oil Supplies Guarantee affirms that if Israel's oil supply is to be cut off for any political or economic reason, the US guarantees to provide Israel with oil regardless of the US oil supply levels. This guarantee carries with it a potential price tag of $20-30 million a day.
And Israel has never paid a loan back to the American people .

On top of US welfare to the Chosen Ones of Israel, they receive millions upon millions from zionist Jews in the US and elsewhere. Not to mention MORE financial support from conservative Christians in the US, a well oiled money making machine.

On top of US welfare to the Chosen Ones of Israel, they receive millions upon millions from zionist Jews in the US and elsewhere. Not to mention MORE financial support from conservative Christians in the US, a well oiled money making machine.
And in this rush to provide the chosen oneswith an airconditioned 3 bedroom home with an inbuilt garage free of charge coutesy of US taxpayer money , US citizens who are homeless are charged with loitering for sleeping on a steam grate in New York City .

Not to mention MORE financial support from conservative Christians in the US, a well oiled money making machine.
I should make a thread about that...

Why does the Christian right love Israel so much?

Is it because Christians want the holy land to look as much like their old testament as possible?

Christianity condemns the Jews because they do not accept Christ...and are therefore going to hell???

I should make a thread about that...

Why does the Christian right love Israel so much?

Is it because Christians want the holy land to look as much like their old testament as possible?

Christianity condemns the Jews because they do not accept Christ...and are therefore going to hell???
The reformation of Isreal is one of the preconditions for the second coming of Christ. During the time of the tribulations, many of the Jews will see the light and convert. They are, after all, God's chosen people. Read Revalations, or watch the Kirk Cameron movie, Left Behind.

I should make a thread about that...

Why does the Christian right love Israel so much?

Is it because Christians want the holy land to look as much like their old testament as possible?

Christianity condemns the Jews because they do not accept Christ...and are therefore going to hell???
Interesting shift with the Christian Right and Israel. The religious right was very critical of Israel and Jews until Israel moved to the far right and the war on non-Jews began. When Israel was dominated by the left leaning Labor Party and Israel followed the rules more often the righties with bibles here in the US opened fire on them. Pat Buchanan among the harshest critics. Now that war is on the Arabs, the GodSquad sees their violent prophecy coming together :rolleyes: they hope and being Christian means you are beseiged with guilt & fear so they all want to speed up Armageddon and celebrate the destruction of all that is not Christian.

The reformation of Isreal is one of the preconditions for the second coming of Christ. During the time of the tribulations, many of the Jews will see the light and convert. They are, after all, God's chosen people. Read Revalations, or watch the Kirk Cameron movie, Left Behind.
And what if the Palestinians are Gods chosen ? Does not Revelation speak of those false Jews ?
"I know you well; you are not strong, but you have tried to keep My Word and have not denied My Name. therefore I have set before you an open door that no man can shut. Behold, I will make those of the synagogue of Satan, who say they are Jews and are not but are liars; fall and worship before your feet and acknowledge that you are the ones I love. . . I am coming soon: hold fast what little strength you have, so no one will take your crown" (Revelation 3:8-9,11).
This verse implies that those Jews in Israel will acknowledge the Palestinians as the Jesus Christ loves .

We all know that Israel has benefited greatly from American patronage, whether its diplomatic support, military technology and assistance, or just plain old cash money, to the tune of 3 billion a year.

But what benefit has the US derived in return?
Anything at all?
Israel hasn't attacked us and all you folks haven't had to leave for Canaduh.

Oh, wait. That last one isn't an actual benefit.

:D

Israel hasn't attacked us and all you folks haven't had to leave for Canaduh.

It's not about Israel having to attack us to denounce them as an ally. Sometimes things become high maintenance and aren't worth the trouble it
causes.

"yalla ya Nasrallah - we will screw you inshallah we will send you back to Allah, with all the Hezbollah"

- N

AMERICA has supported israel.... because for along time... it was the only representative democracy in the middle east.... period.

THAT IS WHY THEY DONT FORM A REAL JEWISH STATE.
THAT IS WHY THEY DONT KICK OUT ALL THE MUSLIMS.
THAT IS WHY THEY HAVENT EVEN TRIED TO REBUILD THE TEMPLE OF DAVID.


THAT IS WHY... THEIR hands have been tied for democracy.

liberal democracy, is not what the jews want.

liberal democracy, is simply the reason the west continues to support it.

if it became a real jewish state... that support would be in jepardy.

-MT

You kids are too young to understand. For most of Israel's existence, the US and USSR were fighting a big chess game, the world was the board, and all the other countries were pieces and pawns. The Russians kept trying to gain control of that corner of the board. They'd pin Egypt, get a knight fork on Syria, a discovered check on Afghanistan. But Israel was our rook protecting the region and we managed to maintain parity with the Soviets. We got Saudi Arabia and Jordan. We had Iran for a long time. We eventually got Egypt. Israel was the key to our game in the Middle East.

We let the Russians take Eastern Europe. There was nothing there we needed as long as we had Western Europe to face off against it. But we couldn't let the Russians have the Middle East because of the oil.

Israel was one of our most important pieces in that game. However, that game is over and we won. Now we're playing a new game. Is Israel still a key piece because of our interest in Middle Eastern oil? Probably so. Israel forces the Muslim nations to take sides and declare themselves fundamentalist extremists who support anti-Israel terrorism or moderates who make nice with Israel to maintain peace. It lines them up as pro- or anti-America by being pro- or anti-Israel. Saudi Arabia and Egypt have signed treaties with Israel and keep on our good side. The UAE and Kuwait know which side their bread is buttered on and have pledged to be our staunch allies. This fragments the Arab/Muslim hegemony cold and prevents it from spreading through the entire region. The resulting standoff paves the way for us to get away with having troops in Afghanistan and Iraq, right there with all that oil.

Oh yeah, Israel has a tremendous strategic value to us, but it's pure politics, not military strategy. Our government thinks that advantage is worth all the money we give them. They believe that without Israel, there would be a New Caliphate extending from Albania to Xinjiang, from Malaysia to Kenya.

Fraggles words of wisdom :p

Oh yeah, Israel has a tremendous strategic value to us, but it's pure politics, not military strategy.
Israel isn't even a political ally, nevermind being a military one. Allies are parties who share mutual benefit and support. The US derives no benefit whatsoever from its defense and support of Israel.

Far from being positive, the relationship is not even 'neutral' , it is negative.

I agree, Carcano. I often hear smart people like Fraggle and public experts express the view that Israel is somehow the USA's Mideast bastion.

Our "Special Relationship" with Israel utterly complicates the pursuit of American interests in the Mideast, for negligible reward. The USA could achieve a dramatic surge of clout even now in the Mideast, save American lives, and boost our economy simply by renouncing our official obsequiousness to Israel.

Cutting Israel loose would in the long term be the kindest thing Americans could do for Israelis: On the present trajectory, there can only be violent escalation. Israel must be pulled out by the ear from beneath America's motherly skirt and stood up to directly and responsibly deal with the surrounding world.

Our "Special Relationship" with Israel utterly complicates the pursuit of American interests in the Mideast, for negligible reward. The USA could achieve a dramatic surge of clout even now in the Mideast, save American lives, and boost our economy simply by renouncing our official obsequiousness to Israel.
And I feel the same way about Taiwan. I find myself gasping in horror when I read posts on other forums about how "Taiwan is an important ally in the region", and how we should be prepared to start WWIII with China over its sovereignty!!!

We all know that Israel has benefited greatly from American patronage...But what benefit has the US derived in return?

Better TV with all these exciting wars.

I often hear smart people like Fraggle and public experts express the view that Israel is somehow the USA's Mideast bastion.I was being a little sarcastic. I tried to make it clear that the current advantage of having Israel as a putative ally is the official party line, and not necessarily reality. I don't know if the people in our government actually believe this or if they're just selling it to the voters in order to gain support for what they're doing on the orders of their puppetmasters in the energy industry. Personally I'm getting a little sick of it. To the extent that there is a problem with Islam, I don't see how supporting Israel is going to solve it. I got no beef with the Jewish people but the leaders of Israel seem to be victims of the psychosis that if you keep doing what you've always done, somehow you won't keep getting what you've always gotten.

However, I feel more confident in my analysis of Israel's value during the Cold War. At least if you buy into the metaphor of the chess game. Israel was our mineshaft canary. Some people say it still is.

As for Taiwan, hey, the China-Taiwan thing is the last gasp of the Cold War since the United States gave up on South Vietnam and the USSR imploded. This is a highly symbolic issue. Don't expect politics to be rational.

We don't need a mineshaft canary with China. Tibet already fell over dead from the imperial-communist gas fumes in that mineshaft.