I'm starting to hate Christmas.

Same old nonsense every year. Here's what I hate:

- How Christmas is being mentioned (and even 'celebrated'), several months prior to December.

- The constant bombardment of advertisements, attempting to con idiots into buying trash that they don't need. Yeah, excellent, just what we need. More idiots spending their money.

- Christmas carols. Christmas songs suck. They are an aural holocaust.

- The Christmas shows which clog the television throughout the Christmas season. Sure, regular TV is crap anyway, but Christmas shows are just corny pieces of trash.

- People mentioning 'the Christmas Spirit'. What a load of crock. If that spirit comes anywhere near me, I'm calling an exorcist.

That's not Christmas, that's commercial opportunism.

im forced into a christmas situation my my lady.

eh, its ok. i just remind her every day during the season of what the holiday is supposed to represent, and why neither that (or what the holiday has become) has any socially redeeming value in my eyes.

I frankly love the commercialism.

Material goods = Happiness.

well, im a severely unorthodox jew, i probably revere jesus more than the average jewish person, but i just dont see the point of celebrating his birthday. sounds like some medievel monarchal shit to me....im not much for standing in my place though, either.


this xmas, everyone should celebrate the birthday of Isaac Luria!!! he was a jewish/muslim/christian type of rabbi from the 1500's.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Isaac_Luria

Wwjd?

baptists talk to him every day..ask them!

I think Jesus would tell us to buy as much material goods as possible, especially buy-one-get-one free offers, and perhaps a second SUV.

yeah, jesus hates hybrid cars.

Hey, we gotta use those dinosaurs for SOMETHING, don't we?

But truly speaking: Material goods really are awesome.

I think Jesus would describe material goods as totally bodacious!

I think "hate" is a little strong for the way I myself feel about it.
It was a bit creepy to see X-mas displays of fake trees & such set up right after Halloween, and the whole hulaballoo about exactly what you're supposed to call the season, the stressed-out nonsense & whatnot is rather ludicrous...

On the other hand, I must confess a certain bizarre nostalgia for those silly old "claymation" television specials, and few things give me the lift of hearing my favorite X-mas tune once again:

Father Christmas
by The Kinks

When I was small I believed in Santa Claus
Though I knew it was my dad
And I would hang up my stocking at Christmas
Open my presents and I'd be glad

But the last time I played Father Christmas
I stood outside a department store
A gang of kids came over and mugged me
And knocked my reindeer to the floor

They said:
Father Christmas, give us some money
Don't mess around with those silly toys.
We'll beat you up if you don't hand it over
We want your bread so don't make us annoyed
Give all the toys to the little rich boys

Don't give my brother a Steve Austin outfit
Don't give my sister a cuddly toy
We don't want a jigsaw or monopoly money
We only want the real McCoy

Father Christmas, give us some money
We'll beat you up if you make us annoyed
Father Christmas, give us some money
Don't mess around with those silly toys

But give my daddy a job 'cause he needs one
He's got lots of mouths to feed
But if you've got one, I'll have a machine gun
So I can scare all the kids down the street

Father Christmas, give us some money
We got no time for your silly toys
We'll beat you up if you don't hand it over
We want your bread so don't make us annoyed
Give all the toys to the little rich boys

Have yourself a merry merry Christmas
Have yourself a good time
But remember the kids who got nothin'
While you're drinkin' down your wine

Father Christmas, give us some money
We got no time for your silly toys
Father Christmas, please hand it over
We'll beat you up, so don't make us annoyed

Father Christmas, give us some money
Don't mess around with those silly toys
We'll beat you up if you don't hand it over
We want your bread, so don't make us annoyed
Give all the toys to the little rich boys

ho, ho, ho...
;)

Christmas is good only for people being in a cheerful mood


Christmas has been smothered in commercialism and dwarfed by political correctness.

http://www.sciforums.com/showthread.php?t=31695

That's not Christmas, that's commercial opportunism.

christmas is commercial opportunism.

christmas is commercial opportunism.

Not everywhere.:)

Oh shit, there she goes with the smiley faces again. I think I'm going to poop myself.

The funny/sad thing is that this forced consumerism and getting together with the family puts so much STRESS on people that they would be better off without Christmas...

My friend was all stressed out about the Thanksgiving dinner, whose family they are supposed to visit. I told him, just fake diarrhoea or something...

Oh shit, there she goes with the smiley faces again. I think I'm going to poop myself.

http://us.i1.yimg.com/us.yimg.com/i/mesg/emoticons7/27.gif http://us.i1.yimg.com/us.yimg.com/i/mesg/emoticons7/26.gif

How Santa Died


It were a christmas morning
And snow lay on the ground
He wasn’t dead just fast asleep
And he didn’t even growl
As santa came in through the door
Carrying his Christmas gifts
He never saw him and he tripped
Fell down and broke his crown
The dog woke up and looked at him
And licked him in the ear
But santa didn’t stir a bit
The man was dead my dear


Coss©GeorgiouDecember2004

If that spirit comes anywhere near me, I'm calling an exorcist.
that's pretty funny.

Not everywhere.:)
1) where isn't it?
2) the very concept of christmas is an innovation and thus flawed.

1) where isn't it?
2) the very concept of christmas is an innovation and thus flawed.

http://www.indianchild.com/christmas/christmas_in_india.htm ;)

Bombay is very similar to Goa in celebrating Christmas.

http://www.surfindia.com/travel/goa/christmas-goa.html

belgian santa has a black slave.

belgian santa has a black slave.

Some people say he doesn't (the politically correct ones). They say that his helpers were black merely because they go in and out of chimneys all the time.

Zo zwart als roet!

In Iran:
http://www.santas.net/iranianchristmas.htm

In Africa:
http://www.santas.net/africanchristmas.htm

In Argentina
http://www.santas.net/argentinianchristmas.htm

In Bangladesh
http://www.santas.net/bangladeshchristmas.htm

In Bethlehem
http://www.santas.net/bethlehemchristmas.htm

In Bulgaria
http://www.santas.net/bulgarianchristmas.htm

In Ethiopia
http://www.santas.net/ethiopianchristmas.htm

In Iraq
http://www.santas.net/iraqichristmas.htm

In Ireland
http://www.santas.net/irishchristmas.htm

In Turkey
http://www.santas.net/turkishchristmas.htm

Ironically santaclaus is Turkish.

Saint Nicholas was born in Patara, Lycia, currently a part of Turkey, but in the year 280 part of the Byzantine Empire. From an early age he was a very religious person and he became a priest at the age of 19. He became bishop of Myra, the capital of Lycia, and took part in the Greek-language Council of Nicaea that greatly influenced Christianity. He died on December 6, 342. Saint Nicholas has a reputation as a friend of children because of various legends that include resurrecting children from death and saving them from prostitution.

Ironically santaclaus is Turkish.

But his outfit is by Coca Cola, a red suit, not the green thing that he originally wore. This unmistakably establishes him as a white American.

edit: apparently its an urban legend, the red outfit was popularised (http://www.thecoca-colacompany.com/heritage/cokelore_santa.html)by Coke.
http://www.snopes.com/cokelore/santa.asp

As far as I know in holland sinterklaas always dressed in red. It's the red of the bishop's dress.

this is from an early 20th century postcard
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/nl/f/fd/Sint-Nicolaas.jpg

In Iran:
http://www.santas.net/iranianchristmas.htm

In Africa:
http://www.santas.net/africanchristmas.htm

In Argentina
http://www.santas.net/argentinianchristmas.htm

In Bangladesh
http://www.santas.net/bangladeshchristmas.htm

In Bethlehem
http://www.santas.net/bethlehemchristmas.htm

In Bulgaria
http://www.santas.net/bulgarianchristmas.htm

In Ethiopia
http://www.santas.net/ethiopianchristmas.htm

In Iraq
http://www.santas.net/iraqichristmas.htm

In Ireland
http://www.santas.net/irishchristmas.htm

In Turkey
http://www.santas.net/turkishchristmas.htm
yes yes, but what is it that they're "celebrating"?

not the green thing that he originally wore.
sufi

This unmistakably establishes him as a white American.
indeed.

yes yes, but what is it that they're "celebrating"?

They call it Christmas.:)

As far as I know in holland sinterklaas always dressed in red. It's the red of the bishop's dress.

this is from an early 20th century postcard
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/nl/f/fd/Sint-Nicolaas.jpg

Ah! But is it the color of the vestments of a Byzantine Bishop?

http://www.byzantines.net/moreinfo/bishop_george.jpg

The Dutch wouldn't have known anything about that. In fact they made St nicolas come from Spain.

The Dutch wouldn't have known anything about that. In fact they made St nicolas come from Spain.

A Spanish Santa!

Thats interesting.

Norweigan version the julenissen
http://www.vedvannkanten.com/Razzia/Images/Razzia17nisse.jpg

Christmas is warm and fuzzy here:m:

Norweigan version the julenissen
http://www.vedvannkanten.com/Razzia/Images/Razzia17nisse.jpg

Christmas is warm and fuzzy here:m:

Doesn't the Norwegian Santa wear white, though?

http://www.cddolls.com/images/Db0593.JPG

The bone is a nice touch btw.

Finnish santa goes by the name of joulupukki

Joulupukki is the Finnish name for Santa Claus. The name Joulupukki literally means Yule Goat or Christmas Goat. This name is likely to come from an old Finnish tradition, where people dressed in goat hides, the apparition being called a nuuttipukki, used to go around from house to house after Christmas eating leftover food.

Pagan people used to have festivities to ward off evil spirits. In Finland these spirits of darkness wore goat skins and horns. In the beginning this creature didn't give presents but demanded them. The Christmas Goat was an ugly creature and frightened children.[citation needed]

It is unclear how this personality was transformed into the benevolent Father Christmas. Nowadays the only remaining feature is the name. The process was probably a continuous amalgamation of many old folk customs and beliefs from varied sources. One can speak of a Christmas pageant tradition consisting of many personages with roles partly Christian, partly pagan: A white-bearded saint, the Devil, demons, house gnomes, whatnot. Nowadays the Joulupukki of Finland resembles the American Santa Claus.

Popular radio programs from the year 1927 onwards probably had great influence in reformatting the concept with the Santa-like costume, reindeer and Korvatunturi (Mount Ear, near Polar Circle) as its dwelling place. Because there really are reindeer in Finland, and Finns are living up North, the popular American cult took root in Finland very fast. Maybe some caring soul decided the Joulupukki is just too scary for little kids.

Today, Finland is one of the few countries where kids actually see Father Christmas in the act of delivering the presents.

They call it Christmas.:)
*badam psssh*
yes, and what is christmas?

There are lots of diffferent ways to portray him a more traditional way from thelast few hundred years is like this
http://www.retten.no/multimedia/archive/00884/2006-julenissen-inn_884844h.jpg

or this

http://www.musiker-boersen.dk/Barn_underholdning/images/julenissen_julius.jpg

The Dutch wouldn't have known anything about that. In fact they made St nicolas come from Spain.
a lot of people making things up, that seems to be the order of the day really.

it's DIY belief.

*badam psssh*
yes, and what is christmas?

What do you think it is?

*badam psssh*
yes, and what is christmas?

In Norway it is the winter solstice----Jul. From the 21st on everyday gets a little more sun til the summer solstice.

In Norway it is the winter solstice----Jul. From the 21st on everyday gets a little more sun til the summer solstice.
indeed.
more evidence of pagan influence.
now there's nothing wrong with that, but don't celebrate paganism, and delude everyone into believing it's about some middle eastern bloke, using religious rhetoric to legitimise a lot of banal meaningless madness and over consumption.

What do you think it is?
nope.
you 1st.

There was no middle eastern bloke so they had to invent a birthdate why not capture a large constituency by timing it right;)

nope.
you 1st.

Midnight mass with party time before and after.:D

There was no middle eastern bloke so they had to invent a birthdate why not capture a large constituency by timing it right;)

Is this right?
http://www.simpletoremember.com/vitals/Christmas_TheRealStory.htm

Is this right?
http://www.simpletoremember.com/vitals/Christmas_TheRealStory.htm
the jist of it.

anyways, it's christmas, you just make it up as you go along.
kinda like chinese whisper.

http://www.indianchild.com/christmas/christmas_in_india.htm ;)

Bombay is very similar to Goa in celebrating Christmas.

http://www.surfindia.com/travel/goa/christmas-goa.html

wow thats incredible Sam. Last night i went to an Indian restaurant and even though it was very Hindu oriented (the owners, the deco and the guests etc.) there sitting on a mantle was a painting of Christ with a cloth covering the image and below it a small white cross.

I am assuming the cloth comes off on Christmas eve. Even though it was covered i could tell who was depicted in the image.

As far as hating any specific day of the year i would recommend getting **** or drunk and having a good time.

wow thats incredible Sam. Last night i went to an Indian restaurant and even though it was very Hindu oriented (the owners, the deco and the guests etc.) there sitting on a mantle was a painting of Christ with a cloth covering the image and below it a small white cross.

I am assuming the cloth comes off on Christmas eve. Even though it was covered i could tell who was depicted in the image.

As far as hating any specific day of the year i would recommend getting **** or drunk and having a good time.

We Indians like to make a song and dance about everything.:D

the jist of it.

anyways, it's christmas, you just make it up as you go along.
kinda like chinese whisper.

As long as the idea is to have fun and make everyone happy.

No one confuses Santa Claus with Jesus Christ, the idea is in the giving and spirit of goodwill that surrounds it.

In Iran:
http://www.santas.net/iranianchristmas.htm

In Africa:
http://www.santas.net/africanchristmas.htm

In Argentina
http://www.santas.net/argentinianchristmas.htm

In Bangladesh
http://www.santas.net/bangladeshchristmas.htm

In Bethlehem
http://www.santas.net/bethlehemchristmas.htm

In Bulgaria
http://www.santas.net/bulgarianchristmas.htm

In Ethiopia
http://www.santas.net/ethiopianchristmas.htm

In Iraq
http://www.santas.net/iraqichristmas.htm

In Ireland
http://www.santas.net/irishchristmas.htm

In Turkey
http://www.santas.net/turkishchristmas.htm

Those are places that can't afford mindless consumerism.

Those are places that can't afford mindless consumerism.

You have no idea. ;)

Mindless consumerism is not a prerogative of the rich though the scale may be more lavish.

Is this right?
http://www.simpletoremember.com/vitals/Christmas_TheRealStory.htm

A quick glance looks fairly accurate

indeed.
more evidence of pagan influence.
now there's nothing wrong with that, but don't celebrate paganism, and delude everyone into believing it's about some middle eastern bloke, using religious rhetoric to legitimise a lot of banal meaningless madness and over consumption.


In any case Out what you are perturbed about, the banal meaningless consumption, is not the churchs' idea it's the markets.

A quick glance looks fairly accurate
Nice. Let's all sing...

"and Lo jesus didst say, hark! (being wont to say hark) upon the day of my birth thou shalt journey unto the markets and places of shopping and there shalt thou shoppest until thou dost droppest,....Amen"

Christmas is what you make of it for my family and I (heathens that we be) it is togetherness good food and smiling faces. Thought you may enjoy Sam the other day when my sons' class went to church it was only my son one other Norweigan boy and the muslims in his class whose parents had requested they be exempt. My wife asked him "what did you guys do?" I quickly said "they prayed to god":p He fell on the floor, a good sense of humour for a 10 yr old.

Christmas is what you make of it for my family and I (heathens that we be) it is togetherness good food and smiling faces. Thought you may enjoy Sam the other day when my sons' class went to church it was only my son one other Norweigan boy and the muslims in his class whose parents had requested they be exempt. My wife asked him "what did you guys do?" I quickly said "they prayed to god":p He fell on the floor, a good sense of humour for a 10 yr old.

Sounds like you've totally brainwashed him.:D

Actually we have read to him about Jesus, the Norse gods, the greek gods and even "gasp" Muhammed.

He has a smattering of alot of things but that in itself is probably kind of defeating for the individual paths.

Actually we have read to him about Jesus, the Norse gods, the greek gods and even "gasp" Muhammed.

He has a smattering of alot of things but that in itself is probably kind of defeating for the individual paths.

Well if you exchange the Norse gods for Hindu ones, that's pretty much my childhood. I'm the religious one in my family.;)

I'm starting to hate Christmas.

Same old nonsense every year. Here's what I hate:

- How Christmas is being mentioned (and even 'celebrated'), several months prior to December.

- The constant bombardment of advertisements, attempting to con idiots into buying trash that they don't need. Yeah, excellent, just what we need. More idiots spending their money.

- Christmas carols. Christmas songs suck. They are an aural holocaust.

- The Christmas shows which clog the television throughout the Christmas season. Sure, regular TV is crap anyway, but Christmas shows are just corny pieces of trash.

- People mentioning 'the Christmas Spirit'. What a load of crock. If that spirit comes anywhere near me, I'm calling an exorcist.

dont hate it. ignore it. ignore people. ignore society, ignore life. That way there is no pain, no remorse, no hatred, and no love. (should've colored the pain...)

As long as the idea is to have fun and make everyone happy.
I'm not saying that people shouldn't enjoy themselves, what irks me is this feable, pitiful and quite frankly inaccurate connection that is made between what happens around the world from 25th dec to 1st jan and jesus. To somehow imply that all the overconsumption, overindulgence, overconsuming and mindlessness has some spirituality involved because it's connected to jesus ergo it's celebrating religion is sickening really, and blatantly deceptive.

No one confuses Santa Claus with Jesus Christ, the idea is in the giving and spirit of goodwill that surrounds it.
the fact that there may or may not be confusion between santa and jesus is irrelevant. The main issue is that there is confusion between "christmas" and jesus.
And don't be fooled by this "goodwill" again it's and another example of cynical use of sentimentality to gloss over and "legitimise" what essentially is a couple of weeks of parties, and getting completely drunk. Goodwill exsists in your heart and intention irrespective of whether it's 25th of dec.

In any case Out what you are perturbed about, the banal meaningless consumption, is not the churchs' idea it's the markets.
i'm not perturbed by the consumption per se. My issue is with the self appeasing, delusional connection with "jesus" and thus "religion" that is made with the consumption.
If people want to consume then that's fine but don't fool yourselves as to why you're consuming.
and I agree with you re the churches, but hey the roman cath church ain't exactly short of a few bucks itself know what I mean (but that's a different issue entirely)


Christmas is what you make of it for my family and I (heathens that we be) it is togetherness good food and smiling faces. Thought you may enjoy Sam the other day when my sons' class went to church it was only my son one other Norweigan boy and the muslims in his class whose parents had requested they be exempt. My wife asked him "what did you guys do?" I quickly said "they prayed to god":p He fell on the floor, a good sense of humour for a 10 yr old.
see I disagree with muslims exempting their kids from such activities, it only serves to give islam a bad press and right now people are just looking for any excuse to bash islam.
There is nothing in the hadith, or Quran that says muslims cannot visit churches.
I'm reminded of the story regarding Mohammed. A xtian delegation had travelled to mohammed's mosque in medina to have a meeting with him. Mohammed put the xtians up in his mosque. When the priest wanted to pray he approached mohammed and asked where he could do so. Mohammed answered "you can pray in any part of the mosque, for aslong as you are my guest it is yours"

Actually we have read to him about Jesus, the Norse gods, the greek gods and even "gasp" Muhammed.

He has a smattering of alot of things but that in itself is probably kind of defeating for the individual paths.
If your son grows up well informed then you've done a good job.

I'm not saying that people shouldn't enjoy themselves, what irks me is this feable, pitiful and quite frankly inaccurate connection that is made between what happens around the world from 25th dec to 1st jan and jesus. To somehow imply that all the overconsumption, overindulgence, overconsuming and mindlessness has some spirituality involved because it's connected to jesus ergo it's celebrating religion is sickening really, and blatantly deceptive.


the fact that there may or may not be confusion between santa and jesus is irrelevant. The main issue is that there is confusion between "christmas" and jesus.
And don't be fooled by this "goodwill" again it's and another example of cynical use of sentimentality to gloss over and "legitimise" what essentially is a couple of weeks of parties, and getting completely drunk. Goodwill exsists in your heart and intention irrespective of whether it's 25th of dec.


i'm not perturbed by the consumption per se. My issue is with the self appeasing, delusional connection with "jesus" and thus "religion" that is made with the consumption.
If people want to consume then that's fine but don't fool yourselves as to why you're consuming.
and I agree with you re the churches, but hey the roman cath church ain't exactly short of a few bucks itself know what I mean (but that's a different issue entirely)



Thats overanalysing in my opinion.

Most people who celebrate Christmas do it as an occasion for having fun or getting together with families a time for connecting.

see I disagree with muslims exempting their kids from such activities, it only serves to give islam a bad press and right now people are just looking for any excuse to bash islam.
There is nothing in the hadith, or Quran that says muslims cannot visit churches.
I'm reminded of the story regarding Mohammed. A xtian delegation had travelled to mohammed's mosque in medina to have a meeting with him. Mohammed put the xtians up in his mosque. When the priest wanted to pray he approached mohammed and asked where he could do so. Mohammed answered "you can pray in any part of the mosque, for aslong as you are my guest it is yours"



I totally agree

Thats overanalysing in my opinion.
not at all.
it's not for no reason that the samaritans experience one of their highest volume of calls during the silly season. The pressure to conform to "christmas" is incidious and very strong.

Most people who celebrate Christmas do it as an occasion for having fun or getting together with families a time for connecting.
and how's that any different to any other public holiday?
why not dispense with the bullshit "religiousness" and just make it a normal public holiday like spring break or something?

not at all.
it's not for no reason that the samaritans experience one of their highest volume of calls during the silly season. The pressure to conform to "christmas" is incidious and very strong.

I wouldn't know about that.


and how's that any different to any other public holiday?
why not dispense with the bullshit "religiousness" and just make it a normal public holiday like spring break or something?

Well in places like India where we get days off from the 22 of Dec to 2 Jan in schools, it is a public holiday, not a religious one.:)

Besides everyone in India gets 25 Dec off regardless of their religion, same for Ramadan Eid and Diwali.

I wouldn't know about that.


Well in places like India where we get days off from the 22 of Dec to 2 Jan in schools, it is a public holiday, not a religious one.:)

Besides everyone in India gets 25 Dec off regardless of their religion, same for Ramadan Eid and Diwali.

maybe in india, but I think you'll find that's exeption rather than norm.

i'm talking about europe and america, canada, latin america etc.

why not re name it, and just make it another public holiday. what do you think the chances are of that happening?

the christians would be up in arms, proving my point.

i'm not perturbed by the consumption per se. My issue is with the self appeasing, delusional connection with "jesus" and thus "religion" that is made with the consumption.
If people want to consume then that's fine but don't fool yourselves as to why you're consuming.
and I agree with you re the churches, but hey the roman cath church ain't exactly short of a few bucks itself know what I mean (but that's a different issue entirely)



see I disagree with muslims exempting their kids from such activities, it only serves to give islam a bad press and right now people are just looking for any excuse to bash islam.
There is nothing in the hadith, or Quran that says muslims cannot visit churches.
I'm reminded of the story regarding Mohammed. A xtian delegation had travelled to mohammed's mosque in medina to have a meeting with him. Mohammed put the xtians up in his mosque. When the priest wanted to pray he approached mohammed and asked where he could do so. Mohammed answered "you can pray in any part of the mosque, for aslong as you are my guest it is yours"


If your son grows up well informed then you've done a good job.

Actually outlandish, just for the record, if you are really concerned about not giving people an excuse to bash islam I find your self righteous anti-christmas rant far more provokative than a muslim school boy who is exempt from going to church. But hey I'm no longer christian.

I used to hate Christmas. I used to dread the end of the year because I knew that from November, I'd be hearing Bing Cosby singing Jingle Bells and seeing the Christmas decorations come up, etc. Used to drive me up the wall.

Now however I have gone Christmas crazy. I guess it has something to do with my son's first real Christmas. Last year he was 3 months old and I was frankly too tired to actually want to do anything. I'm still tired this year and actually meant to be on bed rest, but I've gone insane with wanting him to experience it. I've found that Christmas shopping online has meant that I don't have to battle the stores or the parking hassles and queues.:D

I only did that last week when I took my son to have his photo taken with Santa.:D

*Sigh*.. I'm so ashamed.:(

It's all about the kids, congratulations Bells, helluva thing isn't it? :D

Actually outlandish, just for the record, if you are really concerned about not giving people an excuse to bash islam I find your self righteous anti-christmas rant far more provokative than a muslim school boy who is exempt from going to church. But hey I'm no longer christian.
1)sock, islam is irrelevant to this topic. I mentioned it in response to your comment.
2) I wouldn't call it a rant, I think I've raised valid points.
3) I was aiming to be provocative ie: provoke thought.

I think Jesus would tell us to buy as much material goods as possible, especially buy-one-get-one free offers, and perhaps a second SUV.

Well the bible does say "they were all in one Accord..." yuk yuk. ok ill shoot myself now.