I just noticed that Tony has the most recent response for 22 of 25 current threads. Does he always post this much? If so, its scary how much time that guy must have on his hands.

Hehe, I don't know. I post quite a bit, but that's just because I enjoy this board, it offers some great discussions (if you skip most of tony1's posts that is). Plus, I have a lot of time on my hands ;)

But note that he has never started any topics and almost all his posts are destructive, negative, and critical of others. If you consider that most Christians try to adopt friendly and helpful attitudes towards others then tony1 is one of the most un-Christian people that you are likely to meet.

Have you ever seen the Monty Python Sketches about the man who pays for an argument and at first enters the wrong room assigned to giving abuse? When he does reach the correct room he finds the argument takes the form of the opponent simply saying the opposite all the time. Tony1 plays this role very well.

On these forums if you are in the mood for a pointless argument or feel like receiving abuse then engage tony1 and he will almost certainly oblige you.

*Originally posted by Cris
Have you ever seen the Monty Python Sketches about the man who pays for an argument and at first enters the wrong room assigned to giving abuse? When he does reach the correct room he finds the argument takes the form of the opponent simply saying the opposite all the time. Tony1 plays this role very well.*

Well, duh.

What are you doing in a debate forum if you're expecting no debate?
If it's a mutual admiration society you are looking for, then you're in the wrong place.

What are you doing in a debate forum if you're expecting no debate?
If it's a mutual admiration society you are looking for, then you're in the wrong place.

I'm sorry, but what you are doing on these boards is not debating as it would require that you actually post evidence and some of your own ideas, instead of trashing other people's (again with no evidence). There is a difference between arguing and debating, you obviously have not discovered it yet.

*Originally posted by Xelios
I'm sorry, but what you are doing on these boards is not debating as it would require that you actually post evidence and some of your own ideas, instead of trashing other people's (again with no evidence).*

Since this isn't an oral examination such as for an advanced degree, I think we can actually dispense with a lot of evidence and proceed on the basis of "true, in principle."

In other words, if you say something, I won't demand evidence from you, but I will look at corollaries of your statements and the logical coherence of them.

*There is a difference between arguing and debating, you obviously have not discovered it yet. *

I'm working on it, but the majority of English speakers don't make much of a distinction...

---de·bate v. de·bat·ed, de·bat·ing, de·bates
v. intr.

1. To consider something; deliberate.
2. To engage in argument by discussing opposing points.
3. To engage in a formal discussion or argument. See Synonyms at discuss.
4. Obsolete. To fight or quarrel.---

---ar·gue v. ar·gued, ar·gu·ing, ar·gues
v. tr.

1. To put forth reasons for or against; debate
2. To attempt to prove by reasoning; maintain or contend
3. To give evidence of; indicate
4. To persuade or influence (another), as by presenting reasons---

As you can see, your distinction between the two may be somewhat difficult to discern.
But hey, maybe there is some ineffable je ne sais quoi which distinguishes the two.

Cris is right. There is never coming any sense out of Tony.

Now he is quoting a dictionary.

It gets worse and worse.

Did you lose your bible Tony?? For once?? Man, grow up and start a discussion...

By the way, I 've read you were sending love letters, at the Free Thoughts Forum...

In other words, if you say something, I won't demand evidence from you, but I will look at corollaries of your statements and the logical coherence of them.
Yes, and notice how almost all your corollaries of them are being shot down because you have no evidence?

Seems to me if one is speaking of the fate of the human race and the damnation or salvation of their own immortal soul...they might actually want some evidence.

Assuming that is of any importance, than why don't you give up some evidence to back yourself up for a change Tony?

Ahhhhhhhh I almost forgot...you don't need evidence because everyone should live by the old "The King James version said it and I believe it so it is a fact!" standard.

*Originally posted by Xelios
and notice how almost all your corollaries of them are being shot down because you have no evidence? *

This is why I don't need to supply any evidence.
You do it for me.
If they are corollaries of your own statements, then you are doing a fine job of shooting down your own statements.

*Originally posted by Taken
Seems to me if one is speaking of the fate of the human race and the damnation or salvation of their own immortal soul...they might actually want some evidence.*

First we need to establish what things mean.
Take your "immortal soul" thing there.
There is no such thing, so how does one discuss something like that when you who claims to be a Christian, who believes like a Hindu and who thinks like an atheist, doesn't know it?

*Assuming that is of any importance, than why don't you give up some evidence to back yourself up for a change Tony?*

Oh yes, O Great Mistress of Not Knowing What Religion You Belong To.
Which religion should I provide evidence from or for?
In other words, which way is the wind blowing you today?

*Ahhhhhhhh I almost forgot...you don't need evidence because everyone should live by the old "The King James version said it and I believe it so it is a fact!" standard.*

Spoken like a true atheist.

Does that mean an atheist is anyone who doesn't adhere strictly to the KJV?

--Tiassa :cool:

*Originally posted by tiassa
Does that mean an atheist is anyone who doesn't adhere strictly to the KJV?*

Probably not, since from what I've seen, most atheists quote from the KJV, when they're quoting.

“Take your "immortal soul" thing there.
There is no such thing, so how does one discuss something like that when you who claims to be a Christian, who believes like a Hindu and who thinks like an atheist, doesn't know it?”

I hate to break it to you Tony, but in America and on the Internet people have the freedom to believe pretty much whatever they please. Christian/Hindu/Atheist is perfectly acceptable.

I myself have found aspects all three of those ideologies that I feel are relevant to my life along with Buddhism, Judaism, Taoism, Confucianism, Islam, and many others. I may be an atheist but that doesn’t mean I don’t believe in the virtue of brotherly love, kindness, discipline, or justice. I don’t subscribe to cookie-cutter religions. I invented my ideology, custom fitted to me. You really need to learn to be more tolerant of people different than you.

It occurs to me that you seem far more enlightened in Hindu beliefs than I am, so perhaps you can elaborate on how you came to be the one to decide MY faith and beliefs.
I know exactly what I am, I am a believer. I do not stake claim to YOUR denomination so you reject me. Fortunatly for me you are not Christ and I am under no obligation to follow you. You are not even Christ-like, so I also see no need in giving any credidibility to your thoughts, wants, or beliefs. You produce thorns, and even an atheist would have enough sense to steer clear of a briar patch. Speaking of fruits, I have yet to notice you ever confessing Jesus Christ as the Son of God, your Lord and Savoir.

I don't know about you Tony, but my soul will live forever, just as was promised. When you twist Gods word to such an extreame that the promise of eternal life becomes null, you are really stretching it. Exactly what DO you hope to gain by being saved then?

Thinks like an atheist? Hmmmm, that would imply I think there is no God. Well I'd like to see you use my own words posted in this forum to even begin to make a case against me for that.

I know what religion I DON'T belong to...yours........ the twisted, selfserving, hypocritical, cold hearted faith in materialistic needs desire for granduer, and hunger for power.

"twisted, selfserving, hypocritical, cold hearted faith in materialistic needs desire for granduer, and hunger for power."

This is OT, but except for the twisted, selfserving, hypocritical, cold hearted part, that pretty much sums up my ideology. I desire grandeur and power for the human race. I want us to reach for the stars, to understand reality like never before, to transcend our former existence, in effect to realize all the grand things promised by religion through nonreligious means. And like i said, its my right to think that way, just as it is each of our right to follow our own path in life.

*Originally posted by Cainxinth
I hate to break it to you Tony, but in America and on the Internet people have the freedom to believe pretty much whatever they please.*

How am I changing that?

*Christian/Hindu/Atheist is perfectly acceptable.*

Acceptable to whom?

*I invented my ideology, custom fitted to me. You really need to learn to be more tolerant of people different than you. *

You invented your ideology?
LOL!!
It's the same old same old.
Invent actually means to come up with something new.

In any case, you're free to believe any old thing.
I merely assume that you would want to live.
Your custom religion fits you like a fine, tailored coffin.
Thus, if you want to live, you need to change your mind.
On the other hand, if you want to die your custom religion works perfectly for that.
You are actually free to choose.
If you don't wish to change your mind, that's fine.
I'll just use you as an example of what not to believe if you want to live.

Surely, you can't have a problem with that?
1. You're free to believe anything you want.
2. If you believe the wrong thing, you'll be an example of what not to do.

*Originally posted by Taken
It occurs to me that you seem far more enlightened in Hindu beliefs than I am, so perhaps you can elaborate on how you came to be the one to decide MY faith and beliefs.*

I'm going to assume that you're talking to me.
I don't decide what they are, you do.
I merely read what you write.

*I know exactly what I am, I am a believer. I do not stake claim to YOUR denomination so you reject me.*

Maybe you should reread some of your early posts, to remind yourself of who was rejecting whom.

*I have yet to notice you ever confessing Jesus Christ as the Son of God, your Lord and Savoir.*

It appears in every post, right above my avatar.

*I don't know about you Tony, but my soul will live forever, just as was promised.*

Of course, there is that teeny "die" thing to consider.
Immortal means can't die.
God didn't promise that.
He promises, die and live again forever.

*Exactly what DO you hope to gain by being saved then?*

After I die, if I die, I will be resurrected again.
If you never die, then you can't be born again, and if you aren't born again, you cannot enter the kingdom of heaven.

*Thinks like an atheist? Hmmmm, that would imply I think there is no God. Well I'd like to see you use my own words posted in this forum to even begin to make a case against me for that.*

You get pretty close when you say you are going to worship whales instead of God.
Besides, thinking like an atheist doesn't imply no God, it implies thinking contradictory thoughts.

*I know what religion I DON'T belong to...yours........ the twisted, selfserving, hypocritical, cold hearted faith in materialistic needs desire for granduer, and hunger for power.
Cainxinth *

You're on a roll, Taken.

*Originally posted by Cainxinth
to realize all the grand things promised by religion through nonreligious means.*

To go where no man has gone before.
Are you aware that Star Trek is fiction?

Star Trek is fiction, but its science fiction: "A literary or cinematic genre in which fantasy, typically based on scientific discoveries or developments, environmental changes, space travel, or life on other planets, forms part of the plot or background."

More importantly Tony, are you aware that Stephen Hawkings, Stephen J. Gould and other scientists write nonfiction? How about Galileo?

I don't recall ever writting that I held Hindu beliefs but then I never said i worshipped whales either. Can we get out of your fantasy world and back in to the realm of reality for this discussion or is it too risky for you?

A piece of non-fiction writing requires proof to bring it out of the fiction catagory and into fact. The Bible has no proof.

[i]fic·tion (fkshn)
n.

1) An imaginative creation or a pretense that does not represent actuality but has been invented.
2) The act of inventing such a creation or pretense.
3) A lie.

a)A literary work whose content is produced by the imagination and is not necessarily based on fact.
b)The category of literature comprising works of this kind, including novels and short stories.

By this definition, the Bible is a piece of fiction, simply because what it contains has not been proven to be factual. No matter what anyone says, the Bible will remain fiction until God becomes a proven fact. Unless of course tony, you want to change the definition to suit your arguement...

*Originally posted by Cainxinth
are you aware that Stephen Hawkings, Stephen J. Gould and other scientists write nonfiction?*

No, sorry, I think they're great sci-fi writers, though.

*How about Galileo?*

I'm guessing due to the great emphasis that you are making a great point, but yes I'm aware that he wrote non-fiction.

*Originally posted by Taken
I don't recall ever writting that I held Hindu beliefs*

No, you merely wrote your Hindu beliefs.

*but then I never said i worshipped whales either.*

Actually, you did, when you said you reverenced them.

*Originally posted by Xelios
By this definition, the Bible is a piece of fiction, simply because what it contains has not been proven to be factual.*

To you.

*No matter what anyone says, the Bible will remain fiction until God becomes a proven fact.*

To you.
Just as in the other thread where you kept losing track of the "vantage point" of the universe, you think you are the center of the universe.
You aren't.
The Bible is only fiction to you.

Excuse me tony? I think I'm the center of the universe? Hahaha! That's got a lot of credibility coming from a guy who thinks all of his ideas and beliefs are right no matter what. A guy who claims he cannot be harmed by anything of this world. A guy that constantly looks down on atheists with pity as if they're any less human for not believing in God.

Really tony, sometimes I don't know where you get these ideas.

*Originally posted by Xelios
I think I'm the center of the universe?*

Pretty much.
Of course, you cratered right around the time you failed to explain how a kitchen scale wasn't crushed by half the weight of the universe on one side and the other half on the other side.

*A guy that constantly looks down on atheists with pity as if they're any less human for not believing in God.*

Where is this looking down thing coming from?
Why are you feeling second best, as though you're missing something?

*Really tony, sometimes I don't know where you get these ideas. *

Presumably, the rest of the time you'd know it was from the Bible.
Right?