Micheal Jackson, Brittany Spears, Tom Cruise: does too much fame cause you to go insane? It is certainly easy to think so considering how publicized their slipping from reality is, but perhaps their insanity is nothing special, it justs that they are celebrities and thus their insanity is celebertized. There are tons of insane people in the world most of whom die in an alley somewhere and no one cares, there are tons of famous actors, singers, musicians that live completely normal lives, but when some of them go insane (just like how some unfamous people go insane) there is media double time, everyone wants to see the "great" fall, everyone wants to reinforce the idea that fame has it dark side, and thus feel better about their mediocrity, but the only dark side of fame is the public attention: that every action, every event, every word and every ailment, physical or metal will be scrutinized and amplified. Ever good ignore, ever outage focused on. Fame does not cause insanity, fame just focuses on the insane.

Interesting subject. To pick one, my take on Britney Spears is that she is a rather simple woman (mentally). She has some talent, but she was made famous for her beauty. For years she has been surrounded by sycophants and users. Who knows how many times she has been burned by people she thought she could trust? Her wealth and fame have kept her from having to suffer consequences for bad decisions (for the most part). Does she have anyone in her life she could trust to give her good advice? Would she listen to good advice? I don't think her future looks good, but I'm a notorious pessimist.

I think Britney could take a lesson from Jessica Alba. There is a young beauty who seems to have been able to keep a level head while being successful. You never see her in the tabloids.

But maybe Britney would have ended up being just another meth head if she hadn't become famous. Perhaps it's life in general that she cannot handle. But the pressure cooker of being wealthy and famous might bring out the crazy in the best of us.

I think, actually, this is a discussion that works better focusing most on the general and less on the specifics. Imagine if every time you left your house dozens if not hundreds of people know they can make really solid money if they can photograph you talking to someone - and then someone else will say you are having sex with that person - looking unflattering - say open mouth, eating. People will freely speculate on your sex life, your family life, your parenting skills and all their speculations will get back to the people you love including your children. Large %ages of the people around you start seeing you as a source of money and power. Some of these people will tell very private things about you to newpapers for money. Truth and lies will be mixed together. Again everyone you love will find out directly or indirectly. People, both strangers and even friends and family begin to see not you, but whatever role you present to the public - chosen yourself or by whatever professional monstrosities you made contracts with. People world over are hoping you will fall on your face. They want you to fail. They want to say one hit wonder
she's lost it
it was just hype
he fried is brain.
Because just as much as people admire and love talent they hate it also, even if they are not so concscious of that overwhelming lust to see talented people fail, fall, become just like the rest of us. So you are famous and you are surrounded by this fawning admiring cloud of faces, while at the same time there is this undercurrent of gimme, gimme, gimme and 'I can't wait until you are brought down'.

This would be enough to freak me out if it went on for half an hour at a party.

All day long? Every day.

Every person you get involved with you have to wonder if they are going to describe your genitals and the sounds you make during sex to a magazine.

No one is straight with you and those that are you can't be sure.

Your whole family starts acting strange and they are caught up in the vortex of your fame.

Your own image comes back at you when you least expect it. Often in ways you wish you'd never seen.

Other people steal your ideas, moves, style.

The phone never stops ringing.

Everyone who gives you any feedback about yourself has an agenda that wildly distorts what they tell you.

Thousands of people masturbate to photos of you and hundreds of these think they actually know you. Dozens of them think you should be their boygirlfriend. A couple of them will end up following you every year and if they get alone with you they will rape you and cut off parts of you because you belong to them but you were too fucked up to admit it.

And you don't know which of the people asking for an autograph or calling you or a friend of a friend is just that perfect psychopath to take you down into a torture death.

Not to speak of performance anxiety.

I agree the media a paparazzism is very psychologically stressing, I'm sure Tom Cruise likely would not have been suck into Scientology had he not been famous (as they target the rich and famous). But there are many many celebrities that don't go crazy, how do you explain them?

I think fame exacerbates whatever "pathological" (note the quote marks) there already was in a person to begin with.

Those who start off with good discipline or at least have desire for good discipline will probably handle the pressure of fame much better than those who don't.

Does Superstardom cause insanity

No, the people that surround the superstar are the ones that get them all fucked up with drugs, parties and bad advice!:(

Michael Jackson, Britney Spears, Tom Cruise: does too much fame cause you to go insane? It is certainly easy to think so considering how publicized their slipping from reality is, but perhaps their insanity is nothing special, it's just that they are celebrities and thus their insanity is celebritized. . . . Fame does not cause insanity, fame just focuses on the insane.You summed it up pretty well. There are lots of stars who lead relatively sensible lives, they're just not the ones who make the headlines.

Being a non-career professional musician and having lived in Hollywood for many years, I observe that some successful entertainers have a certain quality that affects virtually all of their relationships with other people. I don't know how to put it except to say that they are enchanting, almost in the literal sense of being able to cast spells on people. This is how they connect with their audience, and for some of them it carries over into the way they connect with their friends and family. Only their managers, colleagues, and other people in the entertainment business are immune to the spells because they have to be in order to do their jobs.

I have a colleague whom I've played with, a non-career pro musician like myself, only he's far more active in music and has been performing more or less once a week for more than thirty years. I can see this man cast his spells and enchant people. It's great on stage, it keeps the audience focused on the music and gets them dancing. When he comes down and schmoozes the patrons during intermission, I see their faces light up, looking at him like he's bigger than life, the girls comparing their boyfriends to him and the boyfriends seeing him as a role model rather than a competitor.

But he can't turn it off and I also see this happen in his personal life, where it's not so handy. The relationships he forms with women are not real. He's an enigma to his family because he doesn't seem to have any "inner" personality. His friendships are shallow because everybody likes him when they meet him but enchantment is not a very stable basis for a friendship. He's a disaster in his day job; he keeps the executives enchanted because they're not paying much attention to his actual work, but he's not very good at the actual work because he's always gotten by on his charm.

I think when you're this shallow you don't have the strength it takes to maintain your sanity in the admittedly crazy world of full-time stardom. You believe the spells you cast, and you don't have any other kind of strength to deal with life.

Nonetheless, some stars manage to develop their full personalities and avoid being taken in by their own enchantments, and they're the ones you don't see on the cover of the scandal sheets.I'm sure Tom Cruise likely would not have been sucked into Scientology had he not been famous (as they target the rich and famous).Actually his first wife (Mimi Rogers, 1987-1990) was a Scientologist and she's generally credited with getting him into it. John Travolta is a better example, he became a Scientologist in 1975 before he was rich and famous.But there are many many celebrities that don't go crazy, how do you explain them?As I said, most of them are strong enough of character to resist the appeal of the dark side. We all do crazy things once in a while, but we're not surrounded by sycophants who convince us we're sane, schemers who stand to profit by it, and fans who are delighted when we do anything that gets our picture published, so our particular kind of craziness is not reinforced. We regain our sanity, often before we've done anything irreversible.No, the people that surround the superstar are the ones that get them all fucked up with drugs, parties and bad advice!:(You have to be extremely social to be a star, it's just not a career that attracts introverts. Extroverts by definition draw energy from the people around them, and they absorb the recklessness that comes with it.

What Fraggle said.

I agree the media a paparazzism is very psychologically stressing, I'm sure Tom Cruise likely would not have been suck into Scientology had he not been famous (as they target the rich and famous). But there are many many celebrities that don't go crazy, how do you explain them?

All I have to do is back up the idea that there will be more. That they are under greater stress. Greater stress, more psyches that get broken, addicted or loopy.

I think fame exacerbates whatever "pathological" (note the quote marks) there already was in a person to begin with.

Those who start off with good discipline or at least have desire for good discipline will probably handle the pressure of fame much better than those who don't.

I think also the age one gets hit with fame and perhaps also the speed with which it comes. If it happens fast when you are young, you have less chance to integrate and adjust to the changes and know yourself less well to catch warning signs and less tools do deal with arising problems.

Micheal Jackson, Brittany Spears, Tom Cruise: does too much fame cause you to go insane? It is certainly easy to think so considering how publicized their slipping from reality is, but perhaps their insanity is nothing special, it justs that they are celebrities and thus their insanity is celebertized. There are tons of insane people in the world most of whom die in an alley somewhere and no one cares, there are tons of famous actors, singers, musicians that live completely normal lives, but when some of them go insane (just like how some unfamous people go insane) there is media double time, everyone wants to see the "great" fall, everyone wants to reinforce the idea that fame has it dark side, and thus feel better about their mediocrity, but the only dark side of fame is the public attention: that every action, every event, every word and every ailment, physical or metal will be scrutinized and amplified. Ever good ignore, ever outage focused on. Fame does not cause insanity, fame just focuses on the insane.

i dont think cruise is insane i just think he is an egotisical ass hole, who is self loving and dangerous!!

however somthing can be said for Jackson, who is totall cuckoo!!

i dont think cruise is insane i just think he is an egotisical ass hole, who is self loving and dangerous!!

however somthing can be said for Jackson, who is totall cuckoo!!

Perhaps a better word would be "Mentally Abnormal" would that be better sort lumps the crazies like Jackson with the manic egotistical assholes like Cruise all in one.

I think also the age one gets hit with fame and perhaps also the speed with which it comes. If it happens fast when you are young, you have less chance to integrate and adjust to the changes and know yourself less well to catch warning signs and less tools do deal with arising problems.

Yes. I remember an article in the Rolling Stone once, titled "The kids aren't okay", about American child actors from the 60's and 70's who have grown up into miserable, maladjusted adults with a host of health and mental problems.

South Park had an episode recently that addressed this issue. They pointed out that in societies that practiced human sacrifice, the victim to be was adorned in jewels and fine clothes and treated as an honored celebrity, until they had their hearts cut out.

They posited that celebrities are simply a modern variation on human sacrifice. We elevate them to superstardom, then hound them relentlessly to drive them to suicide.

Really an interesting take on the issue.

South Park had an episode recently that addressed this issue. They pointed out that in societies that practiced human sacrifice, the victim to be was adorned in jewels and fine clothes and treated as an honored celebrity, until they had their hearts cut out.

They posited that celebrities are simply a modern variation on human sacrifice. We elevate them to superstardom, then hound them relentlessly to drive them to suicide.

Really an interesting take on the issue.

I thought so to when I saw it, but are celebrities driven to in "abnormal mentalities" or do we just focus on the the mentally abnormal ones, maybe a little of both?

Look at child stars in particular. How many are "normal"? Hell, just look at Different Strokes. The older brother went to jail for dealing drugs, the sister robbed a video store, made some soft porn, then ended up dead. Only Gary Coleman has emerged relatively unscathed.

You'll note that the episode dealt mainly with young stars (remember the ending?).

Yes. I remember an article in the Rolling Stone once, titled "The kids aren't okay", about American child actors from the 60's and 70's who have grown up into miserable, maladjusted adults with a host of health and mental problems.

I would guess savvy and not greedy parents can make a difference. And close friends or siblings who consistantly treat you like a normal person.

Look at child stars in particular. How many are "normal"? Hell, just look at Different Strokes. The older brother went to jail for dealing drugs, the sister robbed a video store, made some soft porn, then ended up dead. Only Gary Coleman has emerged relatively unscathed.

You'll note that the episode dealt mainly with young stars (remember the ending?).

Well I think child stars might be a different case altogether from adult stars that supposedly have of conscious sense and know what they are getting into.

Maybe it's the other way around.
Maye 'insanity' helps people to become a superstar.. :shrug:

Maybe it's the other way around.
Maye 'insanity' helps people to become a superstar.. :shrug:
I think there is a strong element of truth in this. Many of these people know how to push and disregard and have levels of self-regard out of the norm. We sometimes call this charisma.

I think there is a strong element of truth in this. Many of these people know how to push and disregard and have levels of self-regard out of the norm. We sometimes call this charisma.You have to have it or you can't survive in the entertainment business. Take it from a weekend bass player. You show up in a bar and there are literally only two people there, a friend of yours and her roommate. Or there are a fair number of people but most of them are drunk and rowdy and not listening or dancing. Or they keep yelling for "Free Bird" and that's not the kind of music you play. Or you have a bad night and make a lot of mistakes or can't get the sound right.

You have to perform anyway! You've got to have a major ego to be able to do this kind of work.

But beyond that, to be really successful you have to enchant people, as I said in my first post. You have to actually be "charming" in the occult sense of the word. And the danger with that is that if you're not careful you fall for it yourself.

You have to have it or you can't survive in the entertainment business. Take it from a weekend bass player. You show up in a bar and there are literally only two people there, a friend of yours and her roommate. Or there are a fair number of people but most of them are drunk and rowdy and not listening or dancing. Or they keep yelling for "Free Bird" and that's not the kind of music you play. Or you have a bad night and make a lot of mistakes or can't get the sound right.

You have to perform anyway! You've got to have a major ego to be able to do this kind of work.

But beyond that, to be really successful you have to enchant people, as I said in my first post. You have to actually be "charming" in the occult sense of the word. And the danger with that is that if you're not careful you fall for it yourself.

I once went to a Kristin Hersh concert. She was great. This little woman with this powerhouse voice. When she got off stage, I could see she was scared. Scared of us. Scared maybe of how much she put out of herself. I don't know. It was a little club. Two band members kind of escorted her through the room. She looked small and very scared.

Now I suppose she might have had a stalker or gotten a death threat. But I had the impression that this was one person for whom fame - not superstardom, but a nice middling fame - was not something took for granted.

I respected that.

Perhaps a better word would be "Mentally Abnormal" would that be better sort lumps the crazies like Jackson with the manic egotistical assholes like Cruise all in one.

but cruise and jackson are differant in so many ways!

jackson is a freak, (his family life wasnt perfect, his dad was a control freak) and cruise because of his stance with scientology (sp) he is a dangerous dangerous man!

if i ever saw him, i would like to ask him, why he says half of the bullshit he does!

Micheal Jackson, Brittany Spears, Tom Cruise: does too much fame cause you to go insane?

Tom Cruise may well be insane in the sense of divorced from reality, but I would not call Brittany Spears insane. She is just a spoiled brat with too much money, who is not very smart and never suffered much consequence for bad behavior. As for Michael Jackson... I think the term is "extreme eccentric". My belief is not that he is divorced from reality, rather he does not LIKE reality very much, and replaces it with his own construction whenever he can. Given his riches, "whenever he can" is a rather large category.