This is a question to the Christians. It's a really simple question. So I am expecting a really simple answer. (i.e Yes, No) Provide verses from the Bible if you can, because that will strengthen your claim.

And the Question is:

Does God repent?

I'm no christian, but given what I know of their conception of god, there would be no need for "him" to repent, as "he" can't do stuff that would require repentance... and who would "he" repent to?

Why would repent? What did He do wrong?

Repent:

What does the word repent mean?
What is its basic definition?
And what has it come to mean to the general public?

You see it is very important to establish what a word means before we can answer the question. "Does God Repent?"

So what does Repent mean. Well it is to change ones mind to change ones heart.

To some people to repent is to say sorry for wrongdoing and or to stop doing something because it is a sin/wrong. So to some repentance encompasses not only the change of mind but also the fruit of repentance, saying sorry and ceasing to do the sin/wrongdoing that one has changed their mind about.

You see there is a basic problem when dealing with this question and that is people have different definitions in their heads of what a word entails.

So now lets look at scriptures:

Numbers 23:19
"God is not a man, that He should lie, Nor a son of man, that He should repent. Has He said, and will He not do? Or has He spoken, and will He not make it good?

It says clearly that God is not a sinner (lie) that he should repent as in say sorry and change His ways. But God has changed what He said He would do. This change is Not like the repentance because of wrongdoing but Relenting from doing something because of peoples being sorry and changing their ways in response to His warning.

Jeremiah 18
5Then the word of the LORD came to me, saying: 6"O house of Israel, can I not do with you as this potter?" says the LORD. "Look, as the clay is in the potter's hand, so are you in My hand, O house of Israel! 7The instant I speak concerning a nation and concerning a kingdom, to pluck up, to pull down, and to destroy it, 8 if that nation against whom I have spoken turns from its evil, I will relent of the disaster that I thought to bring upon it. 9And the instant I speak concerning a nation and concerning a kingdom, to build and to plant it, 10if it does evil in My sight so that it does not obey My voice, then I will relent concerning the good with which I said I would benefit it.

A classic example of this is detailed in the book of Jonah.

Jonah 3


Jonah Preaches at Nineveh


Nineveh Repents
1 Now the word of the LORD came to Jonah the second time, saying, 2"Arise, go to Nineveh, that great city, and preach to it the message that I tell you." 3So Jonah arose and went to Nineveh, according to the word of the LORD. Now Nineveh was an exceedingly great city, a three-day journey in extent. 4And Jonah began to enter the city on the first day's walk. Then he cried out and said, "Yet forty days, and Nineveh shall be overthrown!"


The People of Nineveh Believe
5 So the people of Nineveh believed God, proclaimed a fast, and put on sackcloth, from the greatest to the least of them. 6Then word came to the king of Nineveh; and he arose from his throne and laid aside his robe, covered himself with sackcloth and sat in ashes. 7And he caused it to be proclaimed and published throughout Nineveh by the decree of the king and his nobles, saying,


Let neither man nor beast, herd nor flock, taste anything; do not let them eat, or drink water. 8But let man and beast be covered with sackcloth, and cry mightily to God; yes, let every one turn from his evil way and from the violence that is in his hands. 9Who can tell if God will turn and relent, and turn away from His fierce anger, so that we may not perish?


10Then God saw their works, that they turned from their evil way; and God relented from the disaster that He had said He would bring upon them, and He did not do it.

So if one sees the word repent to mean an act of contrition and a change in action because it is wrong/evil then No, God does not repent. But if one sees the Word repent as simply being a change of mind then yes God has changed His mind on doing something that He said he would do. God is merciful to those who are meek and listen to His will.

All praise The Ancient Of Days

So if one sees the word repent to mean an act of contrition and a change in action because it is wrong/evil then No, God does not repent. But if one sees the Word repent as simply being a change of mind then yes God has changed His mind on doing something that He said he would do. God is merciful to those who are meek and listen to His will.

All praise The Ancient Of Days

Note- This is only for Adstar. So please answer the actual question not this.

Ok, but Why would God want to change his mind, if he is all knowing, and can see the future?

Numbers 23:19
"God is not a man, that He should lie, Nor a son of man, that He should repent. Has He said, and will He not do? Or has He spoken, and will He not make it good?

It says clearly that God is not a sinner (lie) that he should repent as in say sorry and change His ways.But God does sin (lie):

Ezekiel 14:9
And if the prophet be deceived when he hath spoken a thing, I the LORD have deceived that prophet, and I will stretch out my hand upon him, and will destroy him from the midst of my people Israel.

Jeremiah 20:7
O LORD, thou hast deceived me, and I was deceived: thou art stronger than I, and hast prevailed: I am in derision daily, every one mocketh me.

2 Thessalonians 2:11
And for this cause God shall send them strong delusion, that they should believe a lie:


So if one sees the word repent to mean an act of contrition and a change in action because it is wrong/evil then No, God does not repent. But if one sees the Word repent as simply being a change of mind then yes God has changed His mind on doing something that He said he would do. God is merciful to those who are meek and listen to His will.Yet he does repent of his actions:

Genesis 6:7
And the LORD said, I will destroy man whom I have created from the face of the earth; both man, and beast, and the creeping thing, and the fowls of the air; for it repenteth me that I have made them.

1 Samuel 15:10 - 11
Then came the word of the LORD unto Samuel, saying, it repenteth me that I have set up Saul [to be] king: for he is turned back from following me, and hath not performed my commandments. And it grieved Samuel; and he cried unto the LORD all night.

2 Samuel 24:15 - 16
So the LORD sent a pestilence upon Israel from the morning even to the time appointed: and there died of the people from Dan even to Beersheba seventy thousand men. And when the angel stretched out his hand upon Jerusalem to destroy it, the LORD repented him of the evil, and said to the angel that destroyed the people, It is enough: stay now thine hand. And the angel of the LORD was by the threshingplace of Araunah the Jebusite.

Jeremiah 15:6
Thou hast forsaken me, saith the LORD, thou art gone backward: therefore will I stretch out my hand against thee, and destroy thee; I am weary with repenting.

~Raithere

@ 786, Adstar has basically answered the question. Any other Christian would probably give you the same verses. Would you like the second question answered instead?

But God does sin (lie):

Ezekiel 14:9
And if the prophet be deceived when he hath spoken a thing, I the LORD have deceived that prophet, and I will stretch out my hand upon him, and will destroy him from the midst of my people Israel.

Jeremiah 20:7
O LORD, thou hast deceived me, and I was deceived: thou art stronger than I, and hast prevailed: I am in derision daily, every one mocketh me.

2 Thessalonians 2:11
And for this cause God shall send them strong delusion, that they should believe a lie:
Only false prophets - those who preach lies and believe them - experience God's truths as lies. As 2 Thessalonians 2:10 (the previous verse) explains: "They perish because they refused to love the truth and so be saved."
1 Kings 22
13 The messenger who had gone to summon Micaiah said to him, "Look, as one man the other prophets are predicting success for the king. Let your word agree with theirs, and speak favorably."
But Micaiah said, "As surely as the LORD lives, I can tell him only what the LORD tells me."
[then Ahab shows that he is willing to believe a lie]

20 And the LORD said, 'Who will entice Ahab into attacking Ramoth Gilead and going to his death there?'
"One suggested this, and another that. Finally, a spirit came forward, stood before the LORD and said, 'I will entice him.'
" 'By what means?' the LORD asked.
" 'I will go out and be a lying spirit in the mouths of all his prophets,' he said.
" 'You will succeed in enticing him,' said the LORD . 'Go and do it.'
Yet he does repent of his actions:

Genesis 6:7
And the LORD said, I will destroy man whom I have created from the face of the earth; both man, and beast, and the creeping thing, and the fowls of the air; for it repenteth me that I have made them.

1 Samuel 15:10 - 11
Then came the word of the LORD unto Samuel, saying, it repenteth me that I have set up Saul [to be] king: for he is turned back from following me, and hath not performed my commandments. And it grieved Samuel; and he cried unto the LORD all night.

2 Samuel 24:15 - 16
So the LORD sent a pestilence upon Israel from the morning even to the time appointed: and there died of the people from Dan even to Beersheba seventy thousand men. And when the angel stretched out his hand upon Jerusalem to destroy it, the LORD repented him of the evil, and said to the angel that destroyed the people, It is enough: stay now thine hand. And the angel of the LORD was by the threshingplace of Araunah the Jebusite.

Jeremiah 15:6
Thou hast forsaken me, saith the LORD, thou art gone backward: therefore will I stretch out my hand against thee, and destroy thee; I am weary with repenting.

~Raithere
In all these verses the word is Nacham (5162) (http://www.searchgodsword.org/lex/heb/frequency.cgi?number=5162&book=ec&translation=nsn) - to be sorry, regret or relent, to comfort.

That is quite different from Shub (http://www.searchgodsword.org/lex/heb/view.cgi?number=07725&l=en), to turn (from sin, to God), restore. Although they are used synonymously, only Shub implies sin. Also see Can God change his mind? (http://www.pytlik.com/observe/faith/mindchange.html)
“Nacham” can be translated “repent” but only in the loosest possible sense and a potentially misleading sense. The New Oxford Annotated Edition of the NRSV adds an important editorial note to its translation of the word “naham” as “repent”: “Repent, a verb that is often used to indicate a change of mind on the Lord’s part (Exodus 32:14; Jeremiah 18:8, 10). Here it does not mean repentance for sin (see vv. 7-8, where Job is said to have spoken what is right).” (The New Oxford Annotated Bible, New Revised Standard Version with the Apocryphal/ Deuterocanonical Books, Edit. B.M.Metzger and R.E.Murphy (Oxford University Press, New York, 1991) footnote to Job 42:6).

“Shub” is the normal Hebrew word for a repentance that involves a confession of wrongdoing or sin. (Harris, R.L., Archer, G.L. and Waltke, B.K, Theological Wordbook of the Old Testament: Volume 2 (The Moody Bible Institute, Chicago, 1980) pp. 571, 909) “Shub” means “turning away from sin and returning to God through repentance.” (Harris, R.L., Archer, G.L. and Waltke, B.K, Theological Wordbook of the Old Testament: Volume 2 (The Moody Bible Institute, Chicago, 1980) p. 909.; Theological Lexicon of the Old Testament: Volume 3, Edit. E. Jenni and C. Westermann; Trans. M.E. Biddle (Hendrickson Publishers, Peabody, 1997) pp. 1312-1317.; New International Dictionary of Old Testament Theology and Exegesis: Volume 4, Edit. W.A. Van Gemeren (Zondervan Publishing House, Grand Rapids, 1997) pp. 55-59.)
In the NT they are represented by:
Metamellomai – a change of heart, sorrow.
Metanoeo or metanoia – to change one’s mind.

God can do all these things, but they don't amount to lying - He can change his mind still doing what he promised He would. You can change your mind in order to lie, or repent in order not to. We are sorry for what we did wrong; God can be sorry for what He did right, such as punishing sin, or creating man. But did He punish or destroy without hope of repentance? Every time God changes His mind, it is an eternal change, something He does not go back on. Sin is going back on your word - something God never does.

Note- This is only for Adstar. So please answer the actual question not this.

Ok, but Why would God want to change his mind, if he is all knowing, and can see the future?



My belief is that God knows all History from the foundations of the earth. That is to say God knew all History before He created the universe. i believe He knows the path of every proton and neutron from its start point till the end.

This is one of the most difficult concepts of God to explain. Now lets use the example of the city of Nineveh God knew before hand what the people of Nineveh's reaction would be to His stated judgement against them. That is they humbled themselves and acknowledged the truth of Gods Judgement against them by performing those acts of contrition. Now would they have done those acts if Jonah had just walked into the city and said "repent and turn away from your sins because they are against the will of God " ? I doubt it. But because Jonah carried with Him the message from God that God was going to destroy Nineveh it sparked in them fear of God and therefore they reacted appropriately to that fear and God did not destroy their city.


You see God does not really change His mind because He know everything before hand. But He is seen from our point of view to change His Judgement/mind because of our free will reaction to His will. God knows what choices we are going to make but He must provide us with choices and with warnings of the consequences of our actions so as to be justified in carrying out those consequences when His will is rejected.

Reading through this post i feel i have not done a good job in explaining things, i have written up something about free will and fate for someone else, i will find it and post it for you.

All Praise The Ancient Of Days

Fate Free will and Predestination

Let us think about Prophesy. If the future can be accurately foretold (which Christians must believe if they agree with what’s in the bible) than we must believe in a type of fate. Now free will supporters will say that yes the future has been foretold in the bible, in the book of Revelation and elsewhere, but they are mayor world events, we still have free will on an individual level. So its up to us what our future is.

Lets look at the book of Revelation. John was on the island of Patmos when God revealed the future to him, he saw the final judgment in process, now did he see a representation of what was to happen or was he actually transported through time to the final judgment and actually saw the final judgment in progress?

You may be thinking what does it matter? Well if he was actually there at the final judgment and saw the great multitude standing before God then he would be looking at real people some of whom would not have been born until 100’s or maybe 1000’s of years after his lifetime. So he was looking at people who had not been born yet, (in his time) that had been born lived their lives believed or not believed, died and raised, which were being judged. He saw the angles dividing the multitudes and casting some into the lake of fire. So even before they were born it was known what choices they were going to make and therefore their ultimate fate.

It may seem to you that I am supporting the predestination view; well in a way I am and in another way I am not. Let me explain. If God knows the future to the detail that I have suggested above, than he knows what choices people will make during their lives even before they are born. So we still have free will it’s just that God already knows what choices we are going to make.

So to use an analogy The history of existence is like a real life documentary and God has got the tape and can F-Forward it and knows the outcome beforehand. The people who are in the documentary are free to say and do what they want and they say and do what they want. From that tape he has already written down in his book (the book of life) who he has selected for his next production and who gets the chop.

I hope I have explained my thoughts clearly enough. I can tell you it’s not easy explaining something like this using words.

All Praise The Ancient Of Days

Raithere

But God does sin (lie):

Ezekiel 14:9
And if the prophet be deceived when he hath spoken a thing, I the LORD have deceived that prophet, and I will stretch out my hand upon him, and will destroy him from the midst of my people Israel.

Jeremiah 20:7
O LORD, thou hast deceived me, and I was deceived: thou art stronger than I, and hast prevailed: I am in derision daily, every one mocketh me.

2 Thessalonians 2:11
And for this cause God shall send them strong delusion, that they should believe a lie:

Good point Raithere. God does allow those that reject the love of the truth to be deceived and He does send them strong delusions.



But i am not so sure about your reference to Ezekiel 14 in context it does not seem to carry the same meaning as it does in isolation.

Ezekiel 14

1 Now some of the elders of Israel came to me and sat before me. 2And the word of the LORD came to me, saying, 3"Son of man, these men have set up their idols in their hearts, and put before them that which causes them to stumble into iniquity. Should I let Myself be inquired of at all by them?
4"Therefore speak to them, and say to them, "Thus says the Lord GOD: "Everyone of the house of Israel who sets up his idols in his heart, and puts before him what causes him to stumble into iniquity, and then comes to the prophet, I the LORD will answer him who comes, according to the multitude of his idols, 5that I may seize the house of Israel by their heart, because they are all estranged from Me by their idols."'
6"Therefore say to the house of Israel, "Thus says the Lord GOD: "Repent, turn away from your idols, and turn your faces away from all your abominations. 7For anyone of the house of Israel, or of the strangers who dwell in Israel, who separates himself from Me and sets up his idols in his heart and puts before him what causes him to stumble into iniquity, then comes to a prophet to inquire of him concerning Me, I the LORD will answer him by Myself. 8I will set My face against that man and make him a sign and a proverb, and I will cut him off from the midst of My people. Then you shall know that I am the LORD.
9"And if the prophet is induced to speak anything, I the LORD have induced that prophet, and I will stretch out My hand against him and destroy him from among My people Israel. 10And they shall bear their iniquity; the punishment of the prophet shall be the same as the punishment of the one who inquired, 11that the house of Israel may no longer stray from Me, nor be profaned anymore with all their transgressions, but that they may be My people and I may be their God," says the Lord GOD."'

God seems to be saying that people who have idols in their hearts must not seek a prophet to inquire about Gods will or they will be punished. He also seems to be saying that if the prophet does respond to the inquirer then the response will be from God (The prophet that God causes to respond could well have idols in his heart as well?)



Well my Jeramiah 20 seems to be different from the one you have quoted:

Jeremiah 20
7 O LORD, You induced me, and I was persuaded;
You are stronger than I, and have prevailed.
I am in derision daily;
Everyone mocks me.
8For when I spoke, I cried out;
I shouted, "Violence and plunder!"
Because the word of the LORD was made to me
A reproach and a derision daily.
9Then I said, "I will not make mention of Him,
Nor speak anymore in His name."
But His word was in my heart like a burning fire
Shut up in my bones;
I was weary of holding it back,
And I could not.
10For I heard many mocking:
"Fear on every side!"
"Report," they say, "and we will report it!"
All my acquaintances watched for my stumbling, saying,
"Perhaps he can be induced;
Then we will prevail against him,
And we will take our revenge on him."
11But the LORD is with me as a mighty, awesome One.
Therefore my persecutors will stumble, and will not prevail.
They will be greatly ashamed, for they will not prosper.
Their everlasting confusion will never be forgotten.

In context it seems to have a different meaning, Jeremiah seems to have not liked being a prophet. Its never a pleasant job being the messenger of bad news. LOL



As for 2 Thessalonians 2:11 you will get no dispute from me. That is a prophecy of the times before the return of the Messiah Jesus. God will cause all those who dwell on the earth who have rejected the love of the truth to be deceived by the Anti-Messiah and His false prophet by the great wonders and lying signs that He will grant them to do.

All Praise The Ancient of Days

Only false prophets - those who preach lies and believe them - experience God's truths as lies. As 2 Thessalonians 2:10 (the previous verse) explains: "They perish because they refused to love the truth and so be saved."This is just apologetics. It states quite explicitly, "God shall send them strong delusion"(KJV). It doesn't say that God shall send them the truth and they shall be deceived.

Other translations still indicate the same thing
"God will send upon them a deluding influence so that they will believe what is false" (NASB)
"God sends upon them a strong delusion, to make them believe what is false" (RSV)
"God sends (sendeth) to them a working of error, that they should believe what is false" (Darby, (ASV))

In all these verses the word is Nacham (5162) - to be sorry, regret or relent, to comfort.Interesting editing of your own reference, here's the full entry:

"1. to be sorry, console oneself, repent, regret, comfort, be comforted
a. (Niphal)1. to be sorry, be moved to pity, have compassion
2. to be sorry, rue, suffer grief, repent
3. to comfort oneself, be comforted
4. to comfort oneself, ease oneself"
(emphasis mine)

Nacham (http://www.searchgodsword.org/lex/heb/view.cgi?number=05162)

That is quite different from Shub, to turn (from sin, to God), restore. Although they are used synonymously, only Shub implies sin. The two words are indeed different but I don't see where it makes any difference. We have to consider the question in the initial post. The word Shub would make the question absurd; "Can God turn back to God?" The question is either open to modern interpretation or we can ask 786 to let us know what he meant.

God can do all these things, but they don't amount to lying - He can change his mind still doing what he promised He would.What about when he doesn't do what he promised?

You can change your mind in order to lie, or repent in order not to. We are sorry for what we did wrong; God can be sorry for what He did right, such as punishing sin, or creating man. But did He punish or destroy without hope of repentance? Every time God changes His mind, it is an eternal change, something He does not go back on. Sin is going back on your word - something God never does.Okay, that makes no sense at all. If God says he'll do something then changes his mind he's not going back on his word and if God does something and then regrets doing it he's not repentant but if I do it, I am? I guess there is a different standard for God's behavior, huh?


~Raithere

The two words are indeed different but I don't see where it makes any difference. We have to consider the question in the initial post. The word Shub would make the question absurd; "Can God turn back to God?" The question is either open to modern interpretation or we can ask 786 to let us know what he meant.
~Raithere

By the word repent, I meant to feel sorry, regret, mourn, grieve.

@Jenyar
Funny thing.

You can change your mind in order to lie, or repent in order not to. We are sorry for what we did wrong; God can be sorry for what He did right, such as punishing sin, or creating man. But did He punish or destroy without hope of repentance? Every time God changes His mind, it is an eternal change, something He does not go back on. Sin is going back on your word - something God never does.

"God can be sorry for what he did right".

That is something new to me. So that means God feels sorry for his decisions. And anyway why would he be sorry, if he did something right?

So if one sees the word repent to mean an act of contrition and a change in action because it is wrong/evil then No, God does not repent. But if one sees the Word repent as simply being a change of mind then yes God has changed His mind on doing something that He said he would do. God is merciful to those who are meek and listen to His will.

Genesis 6:6
"And it repented the LORD that he had made man on the earth, and it grieved him at his heart."

Genesis 6:7
"And the LORD said, I will destroy man whom I have created from the face of the earth; both man, and beast, and the creeping thing, and the fowls of the air; for it repenteth me that I have made them."

Could you please give me your remarks on these verses.

Genesis 6
5Then the LORD saw that the wickedness of man was great in the earth, and that every intent of the thoughts of his heart was only evil continually. 6And the LORD was sorry that He had made man on the earth, and He was grieved in His heart. 7So the LORD said, "I will destroy man whom I have created from the face of the earth, both man and beast, creeping thing and birds of the air, for I am sorry that I have made them." 8But Noah found grace in the eyes of the LORD.

Why do you want me to comment on the above scripture? God was sorrowful that mans thoughts where evil continually and He decided to destroy the men of the earth, But as it says Noah found forgiveness/grace in Gods eyes. I was under the impression that islam acknowledges the story of Noah as correct?

All Praise The Ancient Of Days

Genesis 6
5Then the LORD saw that the wickedness of man was great in the earth, and that every intent of the thoughts of his heart was only evil continually. 6And the LORD was sorry that He had made man on the earth, and He was grieved in His heart. 7So the LORD said, "I will destroy man whom I have created from the face of the earth, both man and beast, creeping thing and birds of the air, for I am sorry that I have made them." 8But Noah found grace in the eyes of the LORD.

Why do you want me to comment on the above scripture? God was sorrowful that mans thoughts where evil continually and He decided to destroy the men of the earth, But as it says Noah found forgiveness/grace in Gods eyes. I was under the impression that islam acknowledges the story of Noah as correct?

All Praise The Ancient Of Days

Yes, there is a Chapter on Noah in the Quran. I don't think you got my question.

Here is the verses you provided.

"5Then the LORD saw that the wickedness of man was great in the earth, and that every intent of the thoughts of his heart was only evil continually. 6And the LORD was sorry that He had made man on the earth, and He was grieved in His heart. 7So the LORD said, "I will destroy man whom I have created from the face of the earth, both man and beast, creeping thing and birds of the air, for I am sorry that I have made them." 8But Noah found grace in the eyes of the LORD."

Look at the words I put in bold. You, yourself, just said that he felt sorry for making man. Feeling sorry for something, is the same as regretting.

So God regrets?

As I said above, God is all knowing and can see the future. God would have known the actions of his creation. Even though we have a choice (free will). He would not have created us, if God was going to regret, or feel sorry for creating us. This is an obvious answer.

@ 786

You are misinterpreting the meanings of the words. See here:

http://www.christiancourier.com/notes/doesGodRepent.htm

@ 786

You are misinterpreting the meanings of the words. See here:

http://www.christiancourier.com/notes/doesGodRepent.htm

The site has good points but I still think it didn't answer my question.

What does repent mean? Adstar gave two choices. Change of mind, or be sorrowful. change of mind does not fit this verse, so it has to be sorrowful because it makes sense, doesn't it?

If I were to believe, that site, then that is a complete confusion.

Adstar's explanation is unfortunately incomplete. You should look up more on "anthropomorphism" and "anthropopathism".

God obviously cannot "feel" sorry for man's sin when He allowed man to sin. These feelings are human emotions attributed to God. When God destroys, He is said to be angry. Now obviously no man can understand God, much more His temperance, or emotions. Therefore we can only view his qualities by our own. As we are finite, we cannot fathom His infinite nature. You must also remember, from the other thread that because of the limits of the English language, certain ambiguities may arise in the translations, but this is the fault of the language, not the translator.

God can certainly "feel" love, so even if we anthropomorphize as we do, his grief is also genuine. But we should expect to see a difference between our "emotional" reactions and God's.


That is something new to me. So that means God feels sorry for his decisions. And anyway why would he be sorry, if he did something right?
Because our sins sadden Him, persistence in sin angers Him and the results of sin requires judgment - and justice means destruction to us. There was nothing wrong with what God did, but there was with what his creation did. He did not intend a life of suffering for us, but life - of course He is sorry that there are people who will miss that life because they persist in sin!

This is just apologetics. It states quite explicitly, "God shall send them strong delusion"(KJV). It doesn't say that God shall send them the truth and they shall be deceived.
It says they already believe the lie. God will send them what they will believe, just like it is explained in 1 Kings 22. It's a way of saying God won't force them to believe what they're not prepared to. It's a process of polarization that ends with the "hardening of the heart" - like clay in an oven: its inherent strength or weakness comes out. By doing this, God makes the person become who he is. Read your examples again thoroughly, you'll see what I mean.
What about when he doesn't do what he promised?
Show one instance where God will not do as He promised.
Okay, that makes no sense at all. If God says he'll do something then changes his mind he's not going back on his word and if God does something and then regrets doing it he's not repentant but if I do it, I am? I guess there is a different standard for God's behavior, huh?
You are conveniently condensing the meaning of Nacham to mean only what you want it to. I deliberately left our "repent" out of the definition so that you would realize that; "to be sorry, rue, suffer grief, repent" - why do you suppose the one word, 'repent', contradicts the rest of the instance? Do you have a reason for thinking that?

For instance, God says He will totally destroy every living thing, but spares Noah because of his faith. Did He go back on his word? He regrets making mankind, but not Noah - Noah doesn't grieve Him. Later, God says He will destroy Sodom and Gemorrah, but is willing to spare them if there are even a few believers. Once again, those who are faithful to Him are spared from His anger. Does He go back on His word?

If we do something that turns out wrong, regret is all we have. That's it. Our only way "back" is through repentance and forgiveness. Repentance would have been an empty word if it had no meaning. When we feel sorry about something, it can be an empty passing feeling, or it can lead to us changing our behaviour so as not to do it again - repentance. But God can feel sorry for something He did right, in the sense we are sorry for a bird that still dies in summer after we have taken care of it all winter. Or a judge that has to pronounce a just sentence over his own son. When God "changes his mind", it is counter-intuitive: He stops correcting us, and continues with his plan for our life. He actually suspends his promise - so that we can have one more chance, so that justice can still be seen on earth, and more people can base their decisions on his mercy, rather than his justice. But He will not postpone his promises forever.

Numbers 23:19
"God is not a man, that He should lie, Nor a son of man, that He should repent. Has He said, and will He not do? Or has He spoken, and will He not make it good?

@Anyone who believes that God repents. The above verse should explain everything. So God doesn't repent. That is also the belief of Muslims. So Jenyar don't try to make nonsense out of the verse I provided in the previous post. Above verse claims that GOD DOES NOT REPENT. This takes your hypothesis of God being sorry for what he did "right", out of the ball park.

But in the verse I provided before it claims that it grieved at his heart and that it repenth him. Contradiction unless you look it the SoutStar explained it to me. Jenyar you are just making up nonsense to prove 1 verse right. How do you then explain the verse above.

@SouthStar
The verse above uses the word repent, and claims that God does not repent. In this verse we understand the meaning of repent. But when we go to the verse provided in the previous post, then you can't figure to use the same meaning, even though it had the same way of saying the word. Your answer is more like an excuse than an actual answer. But it is better than Jenyar making up nonsense.

I believe that God does not repent. I was just trying to show the two verses differ in opinions. One claims he doesn't repent, another that he did repent.

But in the verse I provided before it claims that it grieved at his heart and that it repenth him. Contradiction unless you look it the SoutStar explained it to me. Jenyar you are just making up nonsense to prove 1 verse right. How do you then explain the verse above.
Numbers 23:19
a)God is not a man,
b)that He should lie,
a)Nor a son of man,
b)that He should repent.
Has He said, and will He not do? Or has He spoken, and will He not make it good?
This is a classic Hebrew zeugma (parallelism): lie and repent are almost synonymous in that context. The final sentence is the key to understanding the verse.

I guess Jenyar's beautifully eloquent answer is ok, but will you like me to answer?

There is being sorrowful because of ones own actions and there is being sorrowful because of other peoples actions. Where did Gods sorrow come from? He was sorrowful because all the men on earth though and did evil continually. Only Noah found grace in his eyes and therefore Humanity continued to exist after the flood.

As i said before it is very hard to explain these things scripture must be read in context and even then we can all come to the wrong conclusions. It is my belief that God reveals the correct meaning of scripture to those He wills to know it. The only way to know anything is to ask God to open ones eyes.

All Praise The Ancient Of Days

There is being sorrowful because of ones own actions and there is being sorrowful because of other peoples actions. Where did Gods sorrow come from? He was sorrowful because all the men on earth though and did evil continually. Only Noah found grace in his eyes and therefore Humanity continued to exist after the flood.
All Praise The Ancient Of Days

I see your point. But in the verse he is repenting because he made man on earth. I think it is Genesis 6:6, maybe Geneses 7:7. I have to go so, sorry for not providing the verses. I think they are somewhere in this thread.

I guess Jenyar's beautifully eloquent answer is ok, but will you like me to answer?

Yeah, sure. I want as much information as possible.

Well you'll have to ask the question again because I'm not sure what it is now. Sorry :)

Does God Repent?(Regret his decision, regrets his work, makes a mistake which he regrets)

It must seem so from our perspective. After all, isn't any act of mercy really "repentance" in a certain sense?

Does God Repent?(Regret his decision, regrets his work, makes a mistake which he regrets)

I believe:

God is saddened by those who reject Him.

Matthew 23:37
"O Jerusalem, Jerusalem, the one who kills the prophets and stones those who are sent to her! How often I wanted to gather your children together, as a hen gathers her chicks under her wings, but you were not willing!

God does not regret His work

God never makes mistakes, everything that has happened fits into His ultimate objective.

Romans 8:28
And we know that all things work together for good to those who love God, to those who are the called according to His purpose.


All praise The Ancient Of Days

I believe:

God is saddened by those who reject Him.

Matthew 23:37
"O Jerusalem, Jerusalem, the one who kills the prophets and stones those who are sent to her! How often I wanted to gather your children together, as a hen gathers her chicks under her wings, but you were not willing!

God does not regret His work

God never makes mistakes, everything that has happened fits into His ultimate objective.

Romans 8:28
And we know that all things work together for good to those who love God, to those who are the called according to His purpose.


All praise The Ancient Of Days

It shouldn't sadden God if he can see the future. Why create something, which saddens you?

Does a mother suffer through the process of child birth?

If knowledge of suffering stops one from creating, then woman after their first child would never get pregnant again. But i see a lot of woman walking around with more than one child.

Likewise God knowing that someone is going to reject Him does not stop Him from feeling the pain for the one that rejects Him when the actual time of that rejection is reached.

Jeremiah 1
1 The words of Jeremiah the son of Hilkiah, of the priests who were in Anathoth in the land of Benjamin, 2to whom the word of the LORD came in the days of Josiah the son of Amon, king of Judah, in the thirteenth year of his reign. 3It came also in the days of Jehoiakim the son of Josiah, king of Judah, until the end of the eleventh year of Zedekiah the son of Josiah, king of Judah, until the carrying away of Jerusalem captive in the fifth month.
4 Then the word of the LORD came to me, saying: 5"Before I formed you in the womb I knew you; Before you were born I sanctified you; I ordained you a prophet to the nations."

Romans 8
28And we know that all things work together for good to those who love God, to those who are the called according to His purpose. 29For whom He foreknew, He also predestined to be conformed to the image of His Son, that He might be the firstborn among many brethren. 30Moreover whom He predestined, these He also called; whom He called, these He also justified; and whom He justified, these He also glorified. 31 What then shall we say to these things? If God is for us, who can be against us? 32He who did not spare His own Son, but delivered Him up for us all, how shall He not with Him also freely give us all things? 33Who shall bring a charge against God's elect? It is God who justifies. 34Who is he who condemns? It is Christ who died, and furthermore is also risen, who is even at the right hand of God, who also makes intercession for us. 35Who shall separate us from the love of Christ? Shall tribulation, or distress, or persecution, or famine, or nakedness, or peril, or sword? 36As it is written: "For Your sake we are killed all day long; We are accounted as sheep for the slaughter." 37Yet in all these things we are more than conquerors through Him who loved us.

All Praise The Ancient of Days

It says they already believe the lie. God will send them what they will believe, just like it is explained in 1 Kings 22. It's a way of saying God won't force them to believe what they're not prepared to. It's a process of polarization that ends with the "hardening of the heart" - like clay in an oven: its inherent strength or weakness comes out. By doing this, God makes the person become who he is. Read your examples again thoroughly, you'll see what I mean.I’ve read them multiple times from different translations and I still find it rather clear. Regardless, I find your explanation lacking. If God was interesting in saving people wouldn’t send them the truth instead of further delusions? If a child is about to drink antifreeze because he thinks it’s fruit juice do you confirm his false belief that it’s fruit juice or do you tell him the truth?

Show one instance where God will not do as He promised.Let’s start at the beginning. “From any tree of the garden you may eat freely; but from the tree of the knowledge of good and evil you shall not eat, for in the day that you eat from it you will surely die."

Adam did not die “in the day” that he ate from the tree; he lived to the ripe old age of 930.

You are conveniently condensing the meaning of Nacham to mean only what you want it to. Actually, I looked at several translations and many experts concur since they chose to translate it as “repent”. I didn’t look up the word Nacham and try to find an alternative meaning on my own. In fact that’s what you did. I just took the time to examine your source.

I deliberately left our "repent" out of the definition so that you would realize that; "to be sorry, rue, suffer grief, repent" - why do you suppose the one word, 'repent', contradicts the rest of the instance? Do you have a reason for thinking that?Yes, the Bible. Throughout the OT, God is constantly changing his mind. God says Cain will be “a vagrant and a wanderer” but immediately thereafter Cain “settled in the land of Nod” and “built a city”. There are many such examples.

Once again, those who are faithful to Him are spared from His anger. Does He go back on His word?Technically, yes. And fairly often. The OT is filled with examples of God saying he will do one thing and then doing something completely different (often after a bit of convincing).

When God "changes his mind", it is counter-intuitive: He stops correcting us, and continues with his plan for our life. He actually suspends his promise - so that we can have one more chance, so that justice can still be seen on earth, and more people can base their decisions on his mercy, rather than his justice. But He will not postpone his promises forever.Just more apologetics and not very convincing ones. It’s like that book about Nostradamus’s predictions that has to be rewritten every few years when the predictions don’t come true. All you’re saying is that God will fulfill his promises, he just hasn’t gotten around to it yet (for whatever reason). But that doesn’t really hold up under serious scrutiny.

Samuel 7:12
"When your days are complete and you lie down with your fathers, I will raise up your descendant after you, who will come forth from you, and I will establish his kingdom.

For instance:

2 Samuel 7:13 –
"He shall build a house for My name, and I will establish the throne of his kingdom forever. I will be a father to him and he will be a son to Me; when he commits iniquity, I will correct him with the rod of men and the strokes of the sons of men, but My lovingkindness shall not depart from him, as I took it away from Saul, whom I removed from before you. Your house and your kingdom shall endure before Me forever; your throne shall be established forever."

Yet where is Solomon’s kingdom today?

~Raithere

Let’s start at the beginning. “From any tree of the garden you may eat freely; but from the tree of the knowledge of good and evil you shall not eat, for in the day that you eat from it you will surely die."

~Raithere

Not to butt in, but "die" refers to spiritual separation since if your explanation were at all valid, then what would be the point of creating Adam in the first place?

A similar thing is observed in the NT, where Jesus refers to the dead as being "asleep", instead of "dead".

SouthStar:

In both instances the word used is muwth. Here’s the definition:

“Muwth
1) to die, kill, have one executed
a) (Qal)
1) to die
2) to die (as penalty), be put to death
3) to die, perish (of a nation)
4) to die prematurely (by neglect of wise moral conduct)
b) (Polel) to kill, put to death, dispatch
c) (Hiphil) to kill, put to death
d) (Hophal)
1) to be killed, be put to death
a) to die prematurely”

http://www.blueletterbible.org/tmp_dir/words/4/1091978917-9625.html

Here’s the issue, IMO:

I have no problem with man’s spiritual quest, I fully approve of it. Indeed, I think it is necessary or at least intrinsic to the human experience. What confounds me is the claim that a singular expression can or must be the only true expression.

What I see happening in interpretations such as you and Jenyar are providing is the attempt to reconcile the literal with the subjective. Again, I fully approve of this except for the point that you then attempt to assert that this subjective interpretation must be universally true. It seems obvious to me that it’s not.

~Raithere

I’ve read them multiple times from different translations and I still find it rather clear. Regardless, I find your explanation lacking. If God was interesting in saving people wouldn’t send them the truth instead of further delusions? If a child is about to drink antifreeze because he thinks it’s fruit juice do you confirm his false belief that it’s fruit juice or do you tell him the truth?
Can you understand that someone who believes an apple to be a orange will continue to believe apples to be oranges no matter how many "apples" God shows him? This passage and the ones below are actually good examples of this principle - I have no problem believing that they are significant and find it strange that you have such a problem seeing their truth beyond what you call the "literal". However, that's all God gave you and me. He didn't show us lies, neither did Jesus or the apostles. Yet that's all you see.

Let’s start at the beginning. “From any tree of the garden you may eat freely; but from the tree of the knowledge of good and evil you shall not eat, for in the day that you eat from it you will surely die."

Adam did not die “in the day” that he ate from the tree; he lived to the ripe old age of 930.
The Rabbi's saw an interesting interpretation of this: to God, they said, one day is as a thousand years (Psalm 90:4). God took away the length of a man's life (seventy years - Psalm 90:10) from Adam. If Adam wasn't under the grace of God, his death would have been conclusive, as would ours.

Actually, I looked at several translations and many experts concur since they chose to translate it as “repent”. I didn’t look up the word Nacham and try to find an alternative meaning on my own. In fact that’s what you did. I just took the time to examine your source.
I wasn't look for alternative meanings, but for the meaning of the word used. If it will make you happy, we could find a language other than English that has an even narrower definition of "repent", and translate it with that. God changed his course of action without changing his mind. He always acts according to his will, and his will is clear. Repentance looks somewhat different in humans - otherwise you would not have had this problem with using the word for an action of God.

As I see it, you have two different problems with God "repenting": 1) Numbers 23:19, which I explained; 2) The problem with God repenting as a human would, which Numbers 23:19 refutes.

Yes, the Bible. Throughout the OT, God is constantly changing his mind. God says Cain will be “a vagrant and a wanderer” but immediately thereafter Cain “settled in the land of Nod” and “built a city”. There are many such examples.
I'm sure there are. Let's stick with this one for now:
Genesis 4:16
So Cain went out from the LORD's presence and lived in the land of Nod, ["Nod" means "wandering" (see verses 12 and 14).] east of Eden.
Take note of "went out from the Lord's presence" - i.e., forever in exile,wandering. Even the place he stayed meant "wandering". That he built a city (http://www.searchgodsword.org/lex/heb/view.cgi?number=05892&l=en) (from (5782) a city (a place guarded by waking or a watch)), and according to the Legends of the Jews (http://ancienthistory.about.com/library/bl/bl_text_jewslegends1c.htm#_ednTHE DESCENDANTS OF CAIN):
This building of cities was a godless deed, for he surrounded them with a wall, forcing his family to remain within. The punishment God had ordained for him did not effect any improvement. He sinned in order to secure his own pleasure, though his neighbors suffered injury thereby.
Although, the text (verse 17) only tells us that Cain "was then building a city", not that he ever finished. It doesn't say "Cain built a city", as with Nimrod in Gen. 10:11 "he built Nineveh". But that's just "technically"...
Technically, yes. And fairly often. The OT is filled with examples of God saying he will do one thing and then doing something completely different (often after a bit of convincing).
God takes our actions, prayers and repentances into account. Does that make Him into a liar? Even "technically"? His words remain valid, but God can apply or lessen their force as He wills. In the end, Adam (man) will die, physically and spiritually, for his sins. But the new man (Christ, and those who live in Him) will live. Abel will be vindicated and Cain forever wandering.

Just more apologetics and not very convincing ones. It’s like that book about Nostradamus’s predictions that has to be rewritten every few years when the predictions don’t come true. All you’re saying is that God will fulfill his promises, he just hasn’t gotten around to it yet (for whatever reason). But that doesn’t really hold up under serious scrutiny.
God's promises remain valid even after they have been fulfilled, because what God does is not for the sake of one man, or one time, but for all humanity and all eternity. Otherwise none of the prophets would have been any use to us - they were speaking to the Hebrews of their time.

Samuel 7:12
"When your days are complete and you lie down with your fathers, I will raise up your descendant after you, who will come forth from you, and I will establish his kingdom.

For instance:

2 Samuel 7:13 –
"He shall build a house for My name, and I will establish the throne of his kingdom forever. I will be a father to him and he will be a son to Me; when he commits iniquity, I will correct him with the rod of men and the strokes of the sons of men, but My lovingkindness shall not depart from him, as I took it away from Saul, whom I removed from before you. Your house and your kingdom shall endure before Me forever; your throne shall be established forever."

Yet where is Solomon’s kingdom today?
Ever heard of the throne of David?
1 Kings 2:12
So Solomon sat on the throne of his father David, and his rule was firmly established.

1 Kings 2:45
But King Solomon will be blessed, and David's throne will remain secure before the LORD forever."
See also Psalm 132. You're aware that this wasn't all God was promising David. God said your house and your throne shall be established forever. I'm sure David didn't expect to live forever on earth, and neither did Solomon. What was his throne worth if their wasn't someone on it?
Luke 1:30
But the angel said to her, "Do not be afraid, Mary, you have found favor with God. You will be with child and give birth to a son, and you are to give him the name Jesus. He will be great and will be called the Son of the Most High. The Lord God will give him the throne of his father David, and he will reign over the house of Jacob forever; his kingdom will never end."
Not to mention the prophecy of Isaiah 9:6
"For to us a child is born,
to us a son is given...
He will reign on David's throne
and over his kingdom,
establishing and upholding it
with justice and righteousness
from that time on and forever."

Can you understand that someone who believes an apple to be a orange will continue to believe apples to be oranges no matter how many "apples" God shows him?

And what does it take to break such a hellish spell?

And what does it take to break such a hellish spell?
I think it's merciful to both.

I think it's merciful to both.

I don't understand -- merciful to both -- whom?

To those who want to believe their prophets, who say "[religion] lessens the importance given to life, since it gives the promise of an afterlife," or "Some people simply are good people, and would be with or without religion. Same with some bad people. But believing in the bible tends to lead to most people having a corrupted sense of ethics," and to those who believe Christ was not a deluded liar.

PS. My PM doesn't seem to be working at the moment!

I have no problem believing that they are significant and find it strange that you have such a problem seeing their truth beyond what you call the "literal".I do find truths therein, just not in the way that you do. You want the story to be true and are going to great lengths to make that feasible, to rectify any apparent contradictions or problematic passages. I find it more honest to perceive the Bible as a work of man, with all his inherent shortcomings. This way I don’t have to pound on its interpretations and metaphors to make them fit my perception of God. The flaws have a human source and are therefore easily explained.

However, that's all God gave you and me.How sad. God gave you the entire Universe, a history, a world full of other people, and a brain. Everything you see is an expression of God. Do you really think it can all be condensed into a single book?

He didn't show us lies, neither did Jesus or the apostles. Yet that's all you see.No, what I see is an expression of mankind’s spiritual quest. Rather than an absolute or divine truth I see a human truth. It is the assertion that these truths are absolute and universal that I find to be the perversion.

As I see it, you have two different problems with God "repenting": 1) Numbers 23:19, which I explained; 2) The problem with God repenting as a human would, which Numbers 23:19 refutes.And as I see it the problem is still yours. 786 gave his definition of ‘repent’ for us to frame the initial question.

So Cain went out from the LORD's presence and lived in the land of Nod, ["Nod" means "wandering" (see verses 12 and 14).] east of Eden.And ‘Hell’ means the Valley of Hinnom, a garbage dump outside Jerusalem which is where as a non-believer I guess I’m going when I die.

according to the Legends of the JewsAre you really going there to try and validate this? Are we then going to discuss the 7 Earths and Lilith? How about Asherah, Yahweh’s wife?

Although, the text (verse 17) only tells us that Cain "was then building a city", not that he ever finished. It doesn't say "Cain built a city", as with Nimrod in Gen. 10:11 "he built Nineveh". But that's just "technically"...Yes, I found that translation as well in Young’s. It still makes no sense one cannot even begin to build a city until one stops wandering.

God takes our actions, prayers and repentances into account. Does that make Him into a liar?I guess it depends upon your conception of God. If God is fallible and ignorant of some matters then no, I would expect his opinion to change as he gains new insight. If God is perfect and omniscient then I expect him to remain constant and consider these changes of opinion to be lies.

Even "technically"? His words remain validNo. In the day means in the day not several hundred years later. Technically his words are false. If I told you that the day you eat this poison apple you will die and you eat it but don’t die until you’re 90 would you say I was right? Would you say my words are valid?

You're aware that this wasn't all God was promising David. God said your house and your throne shall be established forever. I'm sure David didn't expect to live forever on earth, and neither did Solomon. What was his throne worth if their wasn't someone on it?Quite. So where is David’s throne and why doesn’t his house still rule? Now I already know your answer so my next question is; at what point was David’s throne translated from an Earthly kingdom to a heavenly one? And would we expect that David understood this implicitly or did David think God would establish his house an Earthly kingdom? At the very least we can accuse God of being misleading.

I just find these explanations to be terribly convenient. It’s like Return of the Jedi, (paraphrasing) “Oh! I didn’t mean that Darth Vader literally killed your father, I meant that figuratively. And I didn’t realize we were going to film a sequel at the time and we’d need the plot line.”

~Raithere

I do find truths therein, just not in the way that you do. You want the story to be true and are going to great lengths to make that feasible, to rectify any apparent contradictions or problematic passages. I find it more honest to perceive the Bible as a work of man, with all his inherent shortcomings. This way I don’t have to pound on its interpretations and metaphors to make them fit my perception of God. The flaws have a human source and are therefore easily explained.
But you have no perception of God, not even seeing the Bible as a work of man. Is that by any fault of the Bible?
How sad. God gave you the entire Universe, a history, a world full of other people, and a brain. Everything you see is an expression of God. Do you really think it can all be condensed into a single book?
Not at all, I just think that the information had to be distilled, since "everything" isn't enough - people need to hear the truth one message at a time.

No, what I see is an expression of mankind’s spiritual quest. Rather than an absolute or divine truth I see a human truth. It is the assertion that these truths are absolute and universal that I find to be the perversion.
So they're just passing truths - only true as far as you can stretch them? I think you're reading the words but not understanding their message. Or at least, not believing their message.
And as I see it the problem is still yours. 786 gave his definition of ‘repent’ for us to frame the initial question.
Oh, right. So we're discussing whether 786's god can repent or not. I must have missed that detail...
And ‘Hell’ means the Valley of Hinnom, a garbage dump outside Jerusalem which is where as a non-believer I guess I’m going when I die.
It was an appropriate example at the time. Go listen to the child sacrifices and the constantly burning garbage, and you'll have some idea what Jesus thought of hell.

Are you really going there to try and validate this? Are we then going to discuss the 7 Earths and Lilith? How about Asherah, Yahweh’s wife?
That building a city, whether completed or not, was outside God's will - or his punishment, in this case? Yes, of course. As long as you have a problem with it, I don't mind discussing it. Do we revoke the description 'nomad' when a Tuareg tries to settle down; or 'gypsy', when they cease their travelling ways? What God decreed for Cain was a lifetime of exile, what he did during that exile makes him no less an exile. But maybe, if he didn't rebel against the punishment, he would have found a place of rest at the end of his life.
I guess it depends upon your conception of God. If God is fallible and ignorant of some matters then no, I would expect his opinion to change as he gains new insight. If God is perfect and omniscient then I expect him to remain constant and consider these changes of opinion to be lies.
With utter disregard of the people inbetween Adam and Christ? Why should God not enter into their hell and pull them from the fire?

Knowledge does not make the deed done.

No. In the day means in the day not several hundred years later. Technically his words are false. If I told you that the day you eat this poison apple you will die and you eat it but don’t die until you’re 90 would you say I was right? Would you say my words are valid?
Yes, if you were speaking in an English idiom. Why do you still presume God spoke English? Maybe the fact that I only learned English in school makes me more sensitive to this kind of fallacy.

For one thing, why do you simply assume God, of all speakers, meant physical death? But even if we assume He did - the Hebrew idiom bayowm ("in the day") can mean the certainty of death, not the immediacy of it. An example:
1 Kings 2
37 The day you leave and cross the Kidron Valley, you can be sure you will die; your blood will be on your own head."
...
41 When Solomon was told that Shimei had gone from Jerusalem to Gath and had returned, the king summoned Shimei...
From Jerusalem to Gath is about a 50-60 mile round trip. A donkey’s average journey was only about 20 miles a day (Cansdale, G.S. 1996, "Animals of the Bible," p. 38). But in verse 42 Solomon still sees it fit to remind Shimei that his warning was "on the day you leave to go anywhere else, you can be sure you will die". If Solomon's - a man's - bayowm can be three days, then God's bayowm can be a thousand.

Quite. So where is David’s throne and why doesn’t his house still rule? Now I already know your answer so my next question is; at what point was David’s throne translated from an Earthly kingdom to a heavenly one?
The throne never really belonged to David: 1 Chron.29:23 (parallel to 1 Kings 2:12) "Then Solomon sat on the throne of the LORD as king instead of David his father, and prospered; and all Israel obeyed him." David understood it (Acts 2:25-36).

Jesus was an earthly decendent of David, and therefore fit for the throne. Although the monarchy of David practically ended during the exile in Babylon (Ezekiel 21:25-27), after which a theological state (http://www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org/jsource/History/Exile1.html) emerged (the second Temple period), David's reign doesn't have to visible to exist, according to the Talmud. See What is the origin of the phrase “David king of Israel lives and endures!”? (http://www.askmoses.com/qa_detail.html?o=496).

Jesus, the messiah (anointed by God himself) was heir to David's earthly kingdom, but with his resurrection transcended it also into the spiritual realm, "rebuilding the third temple" in three days, a spiritual kingdom - in other words: one that will last forever (Acts 2:25-36 and from a Jewish perspective: Why only after the Messiah comes can a third Temple be built? (http://www.askmoses.com/qa_detail.html?h=242&o=523)).
Jeremiah 30:9
Instead, they will serve the LORD their God
and David their king,
whom I will raise up for them.
This is Episode Three, not a reinterpretation of Episode 1!