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View Full Version : Does God Have Free Will?
nicholas1M7 11-09-04, 08:43 PM The following question was posed in another thread some time ago:
Is God free to do as he please's?
If so what certainty do we have that he ultimatly is not evil, or weather he has the capacity to be or not be evil?
God does not exist. there is no heaven. there is no hell. there is no afterlife(how do you think without a brain?). Give it up, live your life for a real reason or kill your self, just stop bothering the rest of us with religious rhetoric.
sevenblu 11-09-04, 10:41 PM For the sake of arguement:
If God does exist, then he is limited to our ability to concieve him. God can only do or not do what we concieve Him to do or not do. He cannot do what is logically imposible, because we would not understand what is logically impossible... for we have created Him as much as He has created us.
God has free will only to the extent that we understand free will. He cannot do what we cannot know.
glaucon 11-09-04, 11:17 PM All of this assumes a vast amount of a priori assumptions. In any case, a more interesting question is: If God invokes free will to have his free will taken from him, what then?
:-)
Actually I think the more interesting question we can derive from this is; can any infinite (temporally, let's say) being have a possibility not actualized, thus does it have free will?
c20H25N3o 11-10-04, 01:28 AM Does God have free will?
What would the goldfish answer if he could speak, watching you through its bowl? Are you free to come and go as you please from that little fishes perspective?
Why does that little fish look for you when it is time to be fed? Because it knows God loves it and wouldn't let it starve of course. But you do not have to feed it. You can chose not too. If the fish is left to starve to death God will be angry at man for a short time and you will be sad and regret what you have done. But you are more important than the fish and whilst you may have been an evil keeper of fish, God is the perfect Father who looks after you.
peace
c20
Bad Christian 11-10-04, 04:01 AM Actually I think the more interesting question we can derive from this is; can any infinite (temporally, let's say) being have a possibility not actualized, thus does it have free will?
The fact that God 'created' the universe, and that the universe (an infinite being, one might say) is constantly changing implies that an infinite being has many possibilities that are not yet actualized. As it progresses through time, it touches on different concepts and becomes different things.
When I say the universe is infinite, I mean down to the most minute kernel of the universe. Common sense is really useless here... one might think that the universe is infinite(if one is an atheist), or that there must be something infinite behind it - God. The first is based more on empiricism, the second on logic.
If the universe if infinite, as an atheist might contend(after all, how could the universe come from complete oblivion? Oblivion causes nothing), then is it actually God for an atheist? And might it have some overarching sentience and hidden structure? All just conjecture, but it seems like these are conclusions a godless person must come up with. In the end, they must come up with a God of sorts - though the God is amoral.
Of course, if the universe is just in a constant cycle(eternal recurrence - Nietzche), then the answer is no. Infinity might imply that everything will, eventually, be repeated.
One might argue that the concept of infinity is an abstract, false concept, much like afterlife, but how could the universe be oblivion at one time? How could that possibly spur the development of anything?
beyondtimeandspace 11-10-04, 04:40 AM If God were not free, then nothing would be created. Non-freedom in action implies scarcity, and hence, need. If God is infinite (actually, not potentially), as God is said to be, then there is no need to create (i.e., no scarcity). Hence, if God created the universe, then it was a freely chosen action, and not otherwise.
If God is actually infinite, then God is not an experiencer of time (time being a sequential movement from one event to another). God would experience holistic eternality, rather than sequential eternality. Hence, within God there is no change (this in line with God being actually infinite), and therefore no non-actualized potentiality. This implies that the creative act was performed from all eternity, and that only those who experience time experience beginning. Hence, even if the universe was created from eternity, it would still experience beginning, since it operates under a space-time model.
Bad Christian 11-10-04, 04:53 AM Hence, even if the universe was created from eternity, it would still experience beginning, since it operates under a space-time model.
Very interesting. This implies that God made a deliberate action, and thus has motives and is somewhat sentient in our sense of the word. It(God) ends up being completely unexplainable.
Why would an eternal, unchanging being be motivated to do anything? If he never changes, why deliberately create the time-space universe? Surely such a thing might influence him? Does he necessarily know the future of the time-space universe, being completely divorced from its rules? Is he just watching to see what the complex interrelationship brings, like a scientist?
w30dogg 11-11-04, 12:31 AM I think he was bored. If you had eternity to kill and limitless powers wouldn't you creat your own toys? And say he creat us to be toys, perhaps we were the beta, and he has since moved on to a "better" version... A version of people that would not kill his only begotten son haha or hmmm. just a thought.
Is God free to do as he please's?
If so what certainty do we have that he ultimatly is not evil, or weather he has the capacity to be or not be evil?
which god?
I think the concept of free will doesn't really apply to a (the) Creator, if It exists. I think Its creations (us, etc) are Its "free will extensions". I think that's precisely why we exist. GOD PLAYS DICE.
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