I am not talking physcially dependency, but psyho denpendency.
some people don't stop doing something that is very harmful to his life, e.g. some people watch and buy porn complusively, some people non stop gambling.

some people believe human do anything because they really want to do it. If they want to stop it they can stop it, so addiction do not exist, do yo agree with them?

it can be like a feeling ofbeing possessed cant it? part of you resisting and a prt that simply MUST. a feeling of a struggle going on, with 'you' in the middle of it

e.g. some people watch and buy porn complusively,
how is watching porn "very harmfull"?

how is watching porn "very harmfull"?

imagine a man who non stop watching porn at home, at work. use most of his bucks buying porn.

Well what about OCD? That is caused by a deficiency of a chemical in the person's brain, and results in them not being able to stop doing something....would you class that as a physical or a psychological addiction?

Duendy, yeah, possessed by an incentive?their very real and overwhelming need. That's the problem?most needs are trapped in the depths, parts of themselves so suppressed from several generations' worth of abeyance (hand-me-downs), that those natures are turned into savages. They won't so readily compromise, or lie passively in suspension once the taste of manifestation is aroused once more. It's like needing to go for a badly urgent hot pee.

But not everyone's needs have been imprisoned, or reside in the dungeon fashioned by their? milieu.


Semon, porn is similar. It relieves. Big deal.
it's dead easy for say ummmm... GWyneth Paltrow with her macrobiotic hollywood lifestle to lead the 'ascetic' styled life she leads------once read she refused to drink out of a cup that had been used for coffee the day before or sumthin----with a person livin in a grim concret treeless, litter strewn, violent shitty housing estate with tempatations all round to 'get off your head'.!

some people believe human do anything because they really want to do it. If they want to stop it they can stop it, so addiction do not exist, do yo agree with them?

I disagree with you.

At one point or another in my life, I have been psychologically addicted to studying obsessively, playing video games (shut up), having sex with lots of people, drinking lots of booze (the eternal college pastime), and more recently, using a truckload of cocaine. Yes, I have been through rehabilitation for the cocaine (among other substances), and the information I learned from my counselor was further supplemental to what I already knew too well: that psychological addiction is very, very real.

Additionally, I have read a few worthwhile books about substance addiction and abuse in my spare time as I am hoping to find a career as a counselor or something similar as an adult. You should read about it yourself. Psychological addiction is a demon for a lot of people, and not just in the realm of alcohol or drugs. Almost anyone can become addicted to almost anything.

I am currently addicted to drinking coffee (at least a full pot per day, sometimes two), buying records (which I think is worthwhile), skipping my university classes (who doesn't?), and having awesome sex with one person (woooo).

I agree with those of you that think addictions are nearly like compulsions. You know you shouldn't, and you don't really want to anymore, but you almost can't help yourself. Anything can be an addiction, if it starts to affect your life in a negative way. And no, I don't think humans are strong enough to be perfect, semon, as some do.

I disagree with you.



I am currently addicted to drinking coffee (at least a full pot per day, sometimes two), buying records (which I think is worthwhile), skipping my university classes (who doesn't?), and having awesome sex with one person (woooo).

Main Entry: ad·dic·tion
Pronunciation: &-'dik-sh&n, a-
Function: noun
1 : the quality or state of being addicted <addiction to reading>
2 : compulsive need for and use of a habit-forming substance (as heroin, nicotine, or alcohol) characterized by tolerance and by well-defined physiological symptoms upon withdrawal; broadly : persistent compulsive use of a substance known by the user to be harmful

On that Note I supose the Down Side of Addiction is Withdrawal. I wonder, If We give Cocain to some one who has never heard of it. Will they want it again> According to this STUPID Websters explanation '"Persistant compulsive use of a Substance KNOWN by the USER to be Harmfl"....'' Well So if we give some one Coke, and they have never heard of it, and they want it again, they arent addicted..... yet.. Untill they know it's bad for them.

OH NO! Now I have went and Hurt my Brain ;)
Main Entry: 1hab·it
Pronunciation: 'ha-b&t
Function: noun
Etymology: Middle English, from Old French, from Latin habitus condition, character, from habEre to have, hold -- more at GIVE
1 archaic : CLOTHING
2 a : a costume characteristic of a calling, rank, or function <a nun's habit> b : a costume worn for horseback riding
3 : manner of conducting oneself : BEARING
4 : bodily appearance or makeup <a man of fleshy habit>
5 : the prevailing disposition or character of a person's thoughts and feelings : mental makeup
6 : a settled tendency or usual manner of behavior
7 a : a behavior pattern acquired by frequent repetition or physiologic exposure that shows itself in regularity or increased facility of performance b : an acquired mode of behavior that has become nearly or completely involuntary c : ADDICTION
8 : characteristic mode of growth or occurrence <a grass similar to Indian corn in habit>


Wait... HOLD UP... *Screeeeeeetch*.... Isn't that the Definition Of Insanity? The Process of Repetition? Doing the same thing over and over again trying to get the same affect

Wait... HOLD UP... *Screeeeeeetch*.... Isn't that the Definition Of Insanity? The Process of Repetition? Doing the same thing over and over again trying to get the same affect

Close, but I would think that an insane person doesn't know he/she is doing it.

Close, but I would think that an insane person doesn't know he/she is doing it.


Yea............... hmm.... Good Point ....

Yea............... hmm.... Good Point ....
have to disagree here. the mental illness scam ICLUDED of course in the legal process uses this idea A person doesn't know what thy are doing in defence. this is treating people like children. of course we know what we are doing. but when we pretend and are backed up by a cultural mindset. then we then donna have to take responsibility for our actions. similar to te preceeding excuse of 'demonic possession' in the Age of Superstition

it is sooo easy to encapsulate oneself in that belief, and dodge reponsibility

It is a habit when there is no harm.
It is an addiction when there is harm.

true or not?

OUCH... Those are Good Questions... I wonder what the word for this Behaivior is in Chines and how THEY Define it..... Not just CHinese but also Other None english speaking (Or american speaking Chuckle) Peopls

It is a habit when there is no harm.
It is an addiction when there is harm.

true or not?

Not true.

On that Note I supose the Down Side of Addiction is Withdrawal. I wonder, If We give Cocain to some one who has never heard of it. Will they want it again> According to this STUPID Websters explanation '"Persistant compulsive use of a Substance KNOWN by the USER to be Harmfl"....'' Well So if we give some one Coke, and they have never heard of it, and they want it again, they arent addicted..... yet.. Untill they know it's bad for them.

Also not true.

Well then Zarklephaer, Please Do enlighten us on what IS TRUE

A habit is an activity one doesn't consider at all, let alone consider ever stopping. Addiction is wanting to stop, but finding it harder than simply continuing albeit not so blindly.

Hello again, by the way. I've been drinking tea.

Oh YUM! I do Like tea.... Goes great with Children.
Yes, A Habit Is a repetitious activity one fails to recognize consciously .... Usually, so They See no Harm. An Addiction is Noticed repetition to something that is Causing harm in one form or another. The Question is "Do you Believe in Addiction".... I Suppose I Do.
How ever when I read the definition Of Addiction and habit, I Fail to agree with Webster's Defined term. And Other dictionary definitions of addiction. We need a NEW Dictionary. The play on words is being abused... especially by the judicial system.... and Mr. Bush...

I see a habit as something that is merely a pattern of behaviour picked up through repetition.

I see an addiction as having a dependency (psychologically or physiologically) on a habit-forming thing.


Take, for example, alcohol: You are used to coming home from work and opening a bottle of wine.
This soon becomes a habit - done through repetitive behaviour. No side effects, no real damage to the body, but there is a definite pattern of behaviour.
The habit then becomes an addiction where the contents of the habit, the alcohol, has taken over and you now fuel the habit due to the addiction to the alcohol.

Anyhoo - just my view :)

Thats a pretty Good Veiw

Oh YUM! I do Like tea.... Goes great with Children.
Yes, A Habit Is a repetitious activity one fails to recognize consciously .... Usually, so They See no Harm. An Addiction is Noticed repetition to something that is Causing harm in one form or another. The Question is "Do you Believe in Addiction".... I Suppose I Do.
How ever when I read the definition Of Addiction and habit, I Fail to agree with Webster's Defined term. And Other dictionary definitions of addiction. We need a NEW Dictionary. The play on words is being abused... especially by the judicial system.... and Mr. Bush...

He reads y'say? Good Lord, I was under the impression the gentleman communicated mostly by a process of bearing his teeth and slinging poo at passers by. One lives, one learns. George Dubblah excepted, naturally.

Definitions, tricklish things. The nature of language by necessity leans towards transmutation of meaning - in essence, the longer a word hangs around, the more its precise meaning shifts.

Can't say I've ever tried dunking a child in m'tea though - I feel inspired to try. Biscuits, though delicious, seem suddenly passé in comparison...

He reads y'say? Good Lord, I was under the impression the gentleman communicated mostly by a process of bearing his teeth and slinging poo at passers by. One lives, one learns. George Dubblah excepted, naturally.

Definitions, tricklish things. The nature of language by necessity leans towards transmutation of meaning - in essence, the longer a word hangs around, the more its precise meaning shifts.

Can't say I've ever tried dunking a child in m'tea though - I feel inspired to try. Biscuits, though delicious, seem suddenly passé in comparison...
Well Mr. A......... I can't say I have ever Dipped a child in tea, I have How ever taken baths in Tea :) I Recommend it for every one.
But the play on Words, habit, addiction.... it's a rough call.... I wonder how many Misinterpreted texts ended up in needless killings. :D

od ylniatrec eniM. ;)

Ti Evol I

;) ?...gniht emas eht tuoba gniklat ew erA. yb eht yb.... t'nseod ohw, lleH

'Addiction is wanting to stop, but finding it harder than simply continuing albeit not so blindly.'

Addiction is wanting to stop? So if someone smokes 40 cigarettes a day and loves to smoke said person isnt an addict? Of course they are, just take away their cigarettes and watch the anxiety set in.

What about heroin? Would you not call someone who shoots daily an addict even though they have no desire to stop? Of course you would, they have an addiction and the first pang of withdrawl is the official stamp.

I don't buy the 'psychologically addicted' nonsense. I used to smoke daily and loved my Nat Sherman's though I did develop a smokers cough. One night I was finishing a pack of cigarettes and decided on the spot without any plan that the last one would mark my new life as a non-smoker. I haven't smoked since. Did I suffer physical withdrawl? Yes but that subsided in roughly seven days (it was awful!). Did the thought or desire continue? Yes I just never succumbed to the urge. I was addicted to nicotine not the idea of smoking. I believe the term 'psychological addiction' is a PC term discribing someone who doesnt want to take responsibility for their actions (guilt). Its an excuse.
Also we use the term addiction too loosely since I don't recognize this equation: habit=addiction. All habits are not harmful whereas addictions are always harmful.

Lucysnow,

I've been saying for years now how it's getting ridiculous how often a new 'addiction' pops up. Apparently people can now be addicted to food. ???? You're correct; the PC culture has made us all wanting to be irresponsible children. That being said, it is however, indeed quite possible to be psychologically addicted to something. However, the vast majority of the time, the object of addiction in these cases are behaviours, not physical items.

;) ?...gniht emas eht tuoba gniklat ew erA. yb eht yb.... t'nseod ohw, lleH
?rettam ti dluow ? ton era ew fi tahw !ho hu :D

uhm... Ok I was addicted to something, or So I thought, then I was told it was not an addiction because it wasn't Harmful... so the WHOLE idea is Totally Confusing now.

Certain pleasant activities or experiences cause the release of endorphins. It's a matter of how people are pre-programmed and how they program themselves, we're all different. Some people even get endorphins from pain, like pitbulls.

Praying or other religious activities do it for a lot of people. So do sports, both playing and observing. Hearing or playing music, playing with one's children or pets, gambling, skiing, riding a motorcycle, knitting, there are millions different things that one individual might react to positively because of the path they've taken through life. Endorphins make you feel wonderful, it's no surprise that people will go to great lengths to repeat the experience that they've discovered makes them feel that way. Unfortunately sometimes it's not such a great thing to do, something that might have a net long-term negative effect but feels good in the short term, similar to getting high on a drug that isn't the right one for you.

?rettam ti dluow ? ton era ew fi tahw !ho hu :D

...regnol yna teg secnatnes eseht fi ylnO

Gluacon:...it is however, indeed quite possible to be psychologically addicted to something. However, the vast majority of the time, the object of addiction in these cases are behaviours, not physical items.

What is a 'pyschological addiction' as opposed to a physical one? Please elaborate or give an example on how a behaviour can be the object of addiction?

Gluacon:...it is however, indeed quite possible to be psychologically addicted to something. However, the vast majority of the time, the object of addiction in these cases are behaviours, not physical items.

What is a 'pyschological addiction' as opposed to a physical one? Please elaborate or give an example on how a behaviour can be the object of addiction?

I'm referring to serious psychoactive behaviours. The most prevalent example these days would be 'cutting'; self-mutilation using sharp objects as a result of past traumas.

Glaucon: The most prevalent example these days would be 'cutting'; self-mutilation using sharp objects as a result of past traumas.

And you consider self-mutilation an addiction?

Checking the dictionary here are some definitions of addiction:

1. A chronic, relapsing disease characterized by compulsive drug-seeking and abuse and by long-lasting chemical changes in the brain.

2. Strong emotional and /or psychological dependence on a substance such as alcohol or drugs that has progressed beyond voluntary control.

3.Uncontrollable craving, seeking, and use of a substance such as a drug or alcohol.

4. dependence on a substance (such as alcohol or other drugs) or an activity, to the point that stopping is very difficult and causes severe physical and mental reactions

5. Dependence on a substance that is harmful to physical or mental health, social well-being, or economic functioning

6.A physiological and psychological compulsion for a habit-forming substance. In extreme cases, an addiction may become an obsession to the exclusion of everything else.

7. in reference to drugs, a patern of consumption marked by compulsive taking of a drug, the need for increasing doses over time to maintain the same effect(tolerance), and the appearance of symptoms when the drug is stopped that disappear when it is reinstated(withdrawal).

8. Addiction is the physical need for a substance (physiological substance dependence). Even when use of a drug does not create physical addiction, some people may overuse, or abuse, it because it gives them temporary self-confidence, enjoyment or relief from tension (Bernstein and Nash, 1999, p. 467).

The key words are SUBSTANCE and CONSUMPTION. Cutting is a serious problem but I don't see how you can classify it as an addiction. Psychoactive behaviours and psychological addiction (which I don't believe in) refer to two different concepts

I am not talking physcially dependency, but psyho denpendency.
some people don't stop doing something that is very harmful to his life, e.g. some people watch and buy porn complusively, some people non stop gambling.

some people believe human do anything because they really want to do it. If they want to stop it they can stop it, so addiction do not exist, do yo agree with them?

People use the term addiction when the 'frequent' behaviour becomes harmful in the individuals life, and while its true we can stop doing anything at any time, its hard to say no to yourself when the rest of yourself is saying yes. Saying no to yourself is the hardest thing. I myself felt I was getting addicted to this forum and IT WAS interfering with real life, my kids trashed my bathroom while I replied to a post! I chose to have a break from sci forums. I was bored though so I came back and am trying now to restrict my use instead of a complete ban. I do this whenever I feel something has more control over me than me! I guess we are hedonistic creatures and if something feels good we want to repeat it. Addiction I suppose is when the action starts to defy reason and as I said becomes harmful to others or to the individual. Stopping the addictive behaviour, ideally can be achieved by replacing it with something else (less harmful) though usually people replace them with something equally harmful. Some people are more prone to 'addictions' than others.

I once heard the opinion that all addictions are psychological. What a person is really craving is a particular state of mind, induced by a substance or a behaviour. The substance or the behaviour is just a means to get to that state of mind.
I agree with this position, and my personal experience supports it.

In my experience, an addiction is made up of two parts: craving a particular state of mind, and the habit of seeking it in a particular way.

So when trying to break the addiction, both must be addressed. Just changing the behaviour will not do -- because as long as there is the craving for a particular state of mind, one will seek ways to come to it. So one might stop smoking, but start overeating.

Once I identified the particular state of mind that I was craving, revised it, and found a healthy way of coming to it, I was left with the sheer habit of the old behaviour (and the consequences it created).

Overspending left me with a lot of things that I don't really need, but since they are of worth, I also can't throw them away just like that either. So I must find good ways to either sell them or give them away, which takes some time and effort. I am also left with a few nasty habits, like which route to take when going through town, how much money to take with me, which credit card, which bag, how to spend my spare time -- little things that must be worked on, new, healthy habits to be formed.

Glaucon: Cutting is a serious problem but I don't see how you can classify it as an addiction. Psychoactive behaviours and psychological addiction (which I don't believe in) refer to two different concepts

Anything can be an addiction to some, I am not addicted to cigarettes (can take them or leave them) but many are addicted. Same applies to cutting, shopping, gambling...its not the behaviour that defines itself as addictive but the way that behaviour manifests itself in the particular individual.

If 'cutting' feels good and provides a release in a specific situation, then it will be repeated if no other release is available, unless that individual has a very strong will and can say 'NO to themselves.

Presently I am NOT saying no the huge choccy bar I am eating despite the fact I know it is bad for my skin, will enhance any PMT symptoms I'm likely to be feeling soon, etc etc etc. I want the CHOCOLATE, I'm eating it, it feels good, tastes nice, yummy yummy yummy.

Also, who defined 'cutting' as psychoactive behaviour? Rock climbing is hazzardous but feels good to those who do it, this isn't called psycho......blah blah... cutting is no different. It just has undesirable social connotations, which by the way, some of those in the medical proffession do a thing called 'bleeding' which is very similar. Those in medical proffession cut in a particular way becuase they have studied the reasonning and understand the process and the benefits, although still its undesirable. The difference between them and 'cutters' is technique.

Many of us can see the sense in not doing it and have no urge to do it, some however tried it, liked it and continued it. I don't rock climb for the same reason I don't 'cut'.

Cutters need help with the emotional distress they feel which leads to the cutting, the cutting is not the problem it is but a symptom. Maybe its so hard to treat becuase all the focus is on the cutting and not the cause.

I have never cut but I can understand the desire to cut. Sometimes, extreme anxiety causes the body to feel physical pain. It feels uncomfortable to be inside your own skin and you want to wriggle free of it but can't. It's a horrible physical feeling, hard to explain. Experiencing some kind of physical pain at this time, blocks that 'feeling'. It's a brain thing. Me, I'd reccomend a cold cold shower. Cold water on the head itself is good for the nervous system, but I believe the shock of the cold water numbing the skin would also give releif to that 'icky inside your own skin' feeling. Only those who have felt this will have a clue what I am on about!

When I have had this feeling I have felt like I wanted to 'die' rather than continue with that feeling.

Now considering I have endured two natural births, have had two operations without pain relief (when I should have been out cold) and all manner of other things considered painful, none match that 'icky' feeling that came from sheer emotional trauma. No outwardly caused physical pain has ever made me feel that way. It was always bearable.

So for those who naturally seem to suffer some sort of terrible depressive illness, or trauma or whatever it is that gives them this vile feeling inside that they need to release themselves from, they need help to rid that feeling and the self harm will disappear as not required. I don't therfore think it is an addictive behaviour any more than taking headache tablets for a migraine is considered addictive behaviour.

Maybe its so hard to treat becuase all the focus is on the cutting and not the cause.

Yes. Traditionally, we tended to focus only that which is externally visible -- the overeating, the drugs, the cutting.

Surely those activities may be harmful in themselves, but this is not the real problem.

I Say.... Let them Hurt them selves till they are Dead... Unless... they are hurting ones who don't want to be hurt........... then that would suck.. makes me think of Drunk Drivers............. ooooooohhhhhhhhhh Anurism..........

TheoryofRelativity: its hard to say no to yourself when the rest of yourself is saying yes.

Yes so the question is what exactly is saying yes? The body or the mind? If the body says yes (ie: heroin, nicotine, valium) then its an addiction as the physical discomfort cannot be ignored. If its in the mind then there is no physical 'addicton' simply a repetitive mental contruct which is has no physical ramifications but is eventually overcome by a different mental construct. I am not implying that say depression or the urge to cut oneself isn't a miserable experience only that it isnt an 'addiction' because an addiction concerns by definition CONSUMING CHEMICAL SUBSTANCES which if ignored has physical ramifications like an alcoholic suffering shakes and dt's or the heroin addict crunched up in pain vomiting, sweating. So no not 'anything' as has been suggested can become an addiction and no I dont believe overeating is an addiction either just because the person isn't simply willing to *ahem* STOP. The human body will not go into intense duress because you deprive it of pizza or french fries. The urge to purge isnt a physical manifestation one can simply CHOOSE not to purge (ie: refrain from putting fingers down throat). So called psychic discomfort can be ignored a physical addiction cannot.

Water:

Shopping an addicton? Are you serious? So what exactly happens when all the money is spent or the shops close for the day or their credit card is cut? Do they curl up and die? Do we call the ambulance to take them into emergency as they foam at the mouth? No they simply sit around and WHINE and make excuses for well you know NOT being an adult and exercising self-control and so its easy to call shopping an addiction because, well you know, then they are addicts and don't have to take responsibility for their bourgeois ailments which consist of nothing. So they call themselves addicts because, well you know, an addict isnt responsible for their behaviour or their urges.

Opium anyone? I swear to god I can deal with real addicts but not this mamsypamsy bullshit. Addicted to shopping indeed!

If you look up psychological addiction in your search engine, you will find 'anything can be psycholigically addictive' what you are refferring to is chemical dependancy-addiction, there are different types. I'll find the link for you later if you wish.

Yes but Theory if you read my post again you will see that I am making a distinction between the two. I am also saying that the term 'psychological addiction' is a bullshit term. It means nothing. What exactly is the mind 'addicted' to? How does a 'thought' become addictive? If the thought is not acted upon how is the addictive process presented? The term is useful though. I mean therapists and such can have a blanket term to throw over any non-specific ailment (and they just love that with the $80 per hour and all) and people too bored because they have no REAL problems can find relief and be legitimized, they can give them wellbutrin (pharmaceutical companies love these new catch terminologies) and tell them to go join a 12 step program for shoppers and gamblers. Hey do you know there are love addicts and sex addicts? The pharmie-comps are busy looking for the prozac of the future to curb your need for love or dependency to curb your urge to spend $50 on some hooker for a blow job or to stop masturbating five times a day. In California there is a'*ahem* trend where people have suddenly become *ahem* 'addicted' to plastic surgery, you know they cant stop making appointments for botox, lipo and breast augmentation, they get their lips puffed with silicone, have their make-up tattooed. Can you imagine? Its Bullshit! So no you don't have to provide me with a link I understand this confusion already.

Lucy, the 'shopping' addicts you refer to don't curl up and die any more than a drug addict deprived of drugs curls up and dies.

A shopping addict will steal, prostitute themselves, commit crime to feed their addiction, oh isn't that what drug addicts do? Yehhhhhhhhh

Theory: Read my posts again. The term addiction has a specific meaning and I have listed the definitions. Now you go and find me a 'shopper' who has prostituted themselves or committed a crime so they can shop some more. (laughs) This is absurd. Its sloppy use of language and is bullshit. I wonder how many shopaholics exist outside the west? I mean speed/heroin addicts and alcoholics exist all over the world but I have never heard of someone who can't stay out of the mall or who will sell their pussy to purchase a boob implant. (eyes rolling). Tell it to the third world honey.

Theory: Read my posts again. The term addiction has a specific meaning and I have listed the definitions. Now you go and find me a 'shopper' who has prostituted themselves or committed a crime so they can shop some more. (laughs) This is absurd. Its sloppy use of language and is bullshit. I wonder how many shopaholics exist outside the west? I mean speed/heroin addicts and alcoholics exist all over the world but I have never heard of someone who can't stay out of the mall or who will sell their pussy to purchase a boob implant. (eyes rolling). Tell it to the third world honey.

Lucy, you need to get out more! The real world is happenning outside of your pc. Not all prostitues do it for the drugs! High class hookers indeed do it for the 'shopping'! lol

Theoryofrelativity:

Well your the one with the 40 post per day count! LOL.

Like I said go out and find a shopper who steals and 'hooks' so they can continue to bid on the shopping channel. Perhaps instead of 'buying' every concept that comes up like say 'psychological addiction' why not try deconstructing the concept first to discover if it really makes any sense or not. To see whether it is legitimate or just a profitable new trend who's victims are really simply neurotic and BORED!!

Either way Theory I don't buy the catch term of the day thank you and please in the future dont try and 'teach' me anything. I get out into the 'real' world more than you could possibly imagine which is why I dont simply believe everything and anything drapped on the billboard.

Lucysnow,



Shopping an addicton? Are you serious? So what exactly happens when all the money is spent or the shops close for the day or their credit card is cut? Do they curl up and die? Do we call the ambulance to take them into emergency as they foam at the mouth?

No they simply sit around and WHINE and make excuses for well you know NOT being an adult and exercising self-control

But this is their problem; their problem is that they have never learned to be an adult and exercise self-control.

This doesn't come overnight. You speak so lightly of it, taking so much for granted.


and so its easy to call shopping an addiction because, well you know, then they are addicts and don't have to take responsibility for their bourgeois ailments which consist of nothing. So they call themselves addicts because, well you know, an addict isnt responsible for their behaviour or their urges.

That is shallow. Maybe some addicts have *told* you so, but it isn't necessarily how they feel about themselves.


So no not 'anything' as has been suggested can become an addiction and no I dont believe overeating is an addiction either just because

the person isn't simply willing to *ahem* STOP.

Far from it. Many people are *willing* to stop with a certian behaviour, but there are old beliefs held that the person is unconscious of, and these old beliefs block change, even though the person has decided to change.

For example, a person may be willing to lose weight. They force themselves into a diet and exercise program, but eventually burn out and drop out. Why does this happen? Often it is because the person unconsciously thinks "I am not worthy to take care of myself. I don't deserve to look good. If I lose weight, I might look good and get raped again, so it's safer for me to stay fat and unattractive, as it protects me from getting raped." -- and so on.

So to stop a certain harmful behaviour, it must be examined if there is some secondary gain to not stopping it, and there usually is. Before the harmful behaviour can be successfully stopped or changed, those unconscious beliefs that block change must be made conscious and addressed.

Mere will doesn't accomplish much.

...victims are really simply neurotic and BORED!!


And this doesn't ring a bell for you??

To you, people can be "simply neurotic and bored", just like that?

Do you think that neuroses and boredom have no reason?

FOR ALL THOSE WHO DON'T READ OR FAIL TO UNDERSTAND WHAT THEY READ!!!

Water: But this is their problem; their problem is that they have never learned to be an adult and exercise self-control.
This doesn't come overnight. You speak so lightly of it, taking so much for granted.

Don't speak nonsense read my posts and know the point I am making. OK...WHATEVER THEIR PROBLEM THEY ARE NOT ADDICTED. NO ONE HERE HAS OUTLINED WHAT A PSYCHOLOGICAL ADDICTION IS. THE DEFINITION OF ADDICTION CONTAINS TWO IMPORTANT WORDS:

1. CONSUMPTION

2. CHEMICAL SUBSTANCE

So, to reiterate for the late or lazy, I think the term 'psychological addiction' is too broad based signifying nothing. You have to explain why or how you think the mind becomes addicted. How can a thought become addictive? How can a behaviour in itself be addictive? A substance yes but a behaviour? The mind at any moment can decide to override any thought. Just because someone is too lazy, confused, depressed or whatever petty concerns people are having in the West these days, to stop eating junk food, bidding on ebay or not willing to walk away from a roulette table DOESN'T MAKE THEM ADDICTS. Now explain to me what is it about the roulette table makes a gambler unable to walk away? Does it exhude some strange vapor preventing his legs from moving? No. He just enjoys the rush. The dice isn't making him do it, the table isn't making him do it, there is no physical pressure to continue playing he simply DECIDES TO GAMBLE as opposed to walking away. He makes a conscious decision even though he is in debt. Hello!

I understand how heroin and alcohol can be addictive or nicotine over time but food, sex, love, gambling etc. Please its pathetic. Well again they are just bored and should perhaps consider a little volunteer work from time to time or some other meaningful activity but they certainly don't need detox.

Water: To you, people can be "simply neurotic and bored", just like that
Do you think that neuroses and boredom have no reason?

Of course they do. I am not saying that a bored neurotic doesn't have a problem I just don't call them addicts.

Doesnt anyone take the time to read and comprehend posts anymore? I mean its obvious I am speaking of the definition of addiction and my reluctance to throw around the term addiction willy-nilly. What cutting, shopping, eating have to do with chemical dependency is beyond me.

Anyway this topic has become aimless. Made my point for the day.

Ciao mien lieblings

Water: But this is their problem; their problem is that they have never learned to be an adult and exercise self-control.
This doesn't come overnight. You speak so lightly of it, taking so much for granted.

Don't speak nonsense read my posts and know the point I am making. OK...WHATEVER THEIR PROBLEM THEY ARE NOT ADDICTED. NO ONE HERE HAS OUTLINED WHAT A PSYCHOLOGICAL ADDICTION IS. THE DEFINITION OF ADDICTION CONTAINS TWO IMPORTANT WORDS:

1. CONSUMPTION

2. CHEMICAL SUBSTANCE

Yes, this is what some addictions look like on the outside, that which is observable to all.
But that definition says nothing about the motivation for that consumption.


You have to explain why or how you think the mind becomes addicted.
How can a thought become addictive?

People crave a certain state of mind, a certain state of well-being.
And then they act in ways to produce this state of mind -- be it by meditation, praying, hobbies, drugs, sex, shopping, cutting etc.

We all crave a certain state of well-being, but we go about it in different ways.
Some of these ways are healthy, some are not. If we persist in unhealthy ways, we develop an addiction -- a behaviour that seems out of our control.



Doesnt anyone take the time to read and comprehend posts anymore? I mean its obvious I am speaking of the definition of addiction and my reluctance to throw around the term addiction willy-nilly.

I think your understanding of addiction is out-dated.

Water: But that definition says nothing about the motivation for that consumption.

Water it doesn't need a motivating factor its the chemical that is physically addictive. In other words I can take a healthy person of sound mind and good attitude, life loving and intelligent and give them a steady dose of heroin and over time they will be addicted because its a physical dependency an actual need. If the person suddenly doesn't receive their steady supply they become physically ill. What exactly happens to the person who is 'seeking a certain state of mind' when they are not able to reach that ineffable 'state of mind'? NOTHING! They whine and go on Oprah.

Water: I think your understanding of addiction is out-dated.

I think your mind is outdated

The mind at any moment can decide to override any thought.

No, it cannot, and this is the crux of the matter.
The mind of an addict cannot do that.


Just because someone is too lazy, confused, depressed or whatever petty concerns

Oh. You severely underestimate "laziness, confusion, depression"!
Considering them "petty concerns" only makes things worse.
They are everything but petty.


stop eating junk food, bidding on ebay or not willing to walk away from a roulette table DOESN'T MAKE THEM ADDICTS.

They may become willing, at some point. But it becomes impossible to do act on this will, the rush is too strong.


Now explain to me what is it about the roulette table makes a gambler unable to walk away? Does it exhude some strange vapor preventing his legs from moving? No. He just enjoys the rush. The dice isn't making him do it, the table isn't making him do it, there is no physical pressure to continue playing he simply DECIDES TO GAMBLE as opposed to walking away. He makes a conscious decision even though he is in debt. Hello!

You seem to be forgetting that he enjoys the rush. This makes him unable to think in any other way but the one that sustains the rush.


Well again they are just bored and should perhaps consider a little volunteer work from time to time or some other meaningful activity

They can't. They aren't used to get their satisfaction in life this way.

Water it doesn't need a motivating factor its the chemical that is physically addictive. In other words I can take a healthy person of sound mind and good attitude, life loving and intelligent and give them a steady dose of heroin and over time they will be addicted because its a physical dependency an actual need. If the person suddenly doesn't receive their steady supply they become physically ill.

If it were a good trip they'd be experiencing, then they'd surely want more.
Would they have a bad trip, they wouldn't want more.

The thing with some drugs is that they tend to give a good trip, they make a person feel good, and it's such a feel-good-feeling, better than anything else they've known. This is why they want more of the stuff.

Had you given a steady dose of heroin to an experienced meditator, an enlightened being, you couldn't move him with heroin -- except for some physical effects. Because he knows better states of mind than heroin can give.


What exactly happens to the person who is 'seeking a certain state of mind' when they are not able to reach that ineffable 'state of mind'? NOTHING! They whine and go on Oprah.

/.../

I think your mind is outdated

This is rude of you.

I am not talking physcially dependency, but psyho denpendency.
some people don't stop doing something that is very harmful to his life, e.g. some people watch and buy porn complusively, some people non stop gambling.

some people believe human do anything because they really want to do it. If they want to stop it they can stop it, so addiction do not exist, do yo agree with them?I do agree with them, addiction exists though.

You could stop smoking anytime, you just do it. However, to succeed you have to be prepared and strong, otherwise it will pop back up again. You have to hold it down as long as it takes for it to stay there. Filling the gap (the need) with other things.

I am a smoker and I told myself as a child that if I would start smoking then I could stop anytime I'd like, unfortunatly that didn't quite hold true, since the need must be filled somehow, it's just easier with a cigarette, the addiction is really another way of saying that you like to take shortcuts. There is allways something that is just waiting to fill that need for you, but you have to let it take time (and so I tell myself too), whenever we let us get addicted by something (that is in one way or another unnatural or hinders your life in any way) we are at the same time lacking something that should have been there.

Maybe thereof the constant need for more.

Lucy, the 'shopping' addicts you refer to don't curl up and die any more than a drug addict deprived of drugs curls up and dies.

A shopping addict will steal, prostitute themselves, commit crime to feed their addiction, oh isn't that what drug addicts do? Yehhhhhhhhh
.........Uhm Actualy, There have been MANY Cases of Alchoholics who with out the Drug HAVE ....."Curled up and Died"... Really :( Its awful

Water: Had you given a steady dose of heroin to an experienced meditator, an enlightened being, you couldn't move him with heroin -- except for some physical effects. Because he knows better states of mind than heroin can give.

Yea right and I suppose if I shot him up with an overdose of cyanide he would sing a little ditty for me? Your meditator would be just as strung out as any junky if he hadn't already od'd on his enlightenment. Funny, many junkies also think they are enlightened after a hit or two, everything being dreamy and all.

Maybe your meditater could teach addicts a thing or two, you know, he could teach them to transcend themselves by placing their mouth around a car exhaust.

Lucy, re you telling me not to try to teach you anything,

I have no interest in teaching you anything? You are the one ranting about your point of view and trying to force it down everyones throats, so people don't agree with you, no need to get all uptight! Some women do hook to feed shopping addictions, you don't want to belive it fine, in the words of Clarke Gable
'frankly my dear I don't give a damn'

Oh and lucy, re your sad little jibe about how many posts I have a day?
I don't know how long it takes you to construct your argument and type it, but I type super quick and think even quicker, so 40 posts for me translates into less than 20 minutes online time over a period, so who gives a shit?

I believe in mentally being addicted because it involves the brain and hormones. if your brain says its right then it is very hard to stop even when told what you are doingis wrong