'War' on Christians Is Alleged, The "War on Christmas" has morphed into a "War on Christians." ... from the frontlines" on "persecution" of Christians in the United States and Canada, ...
www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2006/03/28/AR2006032801632.html

Do you feel that this is true?

The facts are self evident.

Gee, its about frigging time! those jerks. How can you take christians seriously? Cutting down a pine tree and dragging it into their house to put lights on it. They want to squabble over details. Its a pagan tradition anyways and almost no christian is aware of it. They persecute nonchristians and commit sins but worse use their religion to cover it up or absolve themselves of guilt. They deserve to be persecuted the same way.

Gee, its about frigging time! those jerksYou mean the anti religious forces?

As aggressive as these kind of Christians are, there is bound to be some blowback. To interpret that as a kind of war only reveals a severe paranoia and latent militantism. The facts are self-evident that there is no widespread persecution of Christians in America.

As aggressive as these kind of Christians are, there is bound to be some blowback. To interpret that as a kind of war only reveals a severe paranoia and latent militantism. The facts are self-evident that there is no widespread persecution of Christians in America.I don't support any radicalsim per se. but one must admit that there's as much radicalsim on the secular side.

a few people don't bow before christianity and its a war?

As aggressive as these kind of Christians are, there is bound to be some blowback. To interpret that as a kind of war only reveals a severe paranoia and latent militantism. The facts are self-evident that there is no widespread persecution of Christians in America.

Of course, christians aren't going to persecute other christians. The majority of americans believe in the christian god even if they are screwing, murdering, stealing, lying et cetera. Its the hypocrisy that makes it more a crime and harder to manage when you have churchfolks trying to intimidate their members and protect their self-interests and cover up eachothers crimes. Its actually predatory and similar to the mob.

Do you feel that this is true?

Of course not. America is the most religious among the industrialized Western countries. In France and in the UK the believers are around 30-40% only...

Many people are sick of Christianity. They do not realize that discriminating against it will not work.

A war on Christians? Are you joking? They have a stranglehold on this country. You can't say anything against them except in one of our biggest cities or on SciForums. Something like 85 percent of the population identifies themselves as Christians and you can tell they are sincere because that's the same percentage who refuse to accept the validity of evolution. They've controlled the government for six years. They've blocked stem cell research and gay marriage almost everywhere, made abortions difficult to obtain in most places, slowed the development of genetically modified food, and gotten the U.S. to resume the Crusades. That's the only war against Christians, the one the Muslims are fighting. It's a shame I can't cheer for either side because I hope they both lose.

If Christians spend all their time evangelizing among their non-Christian neighbors, no one sees any problem with that. No one would refer to that as a "War on the right to not be Christian". But if us non-Christians do anything to resist the imposition of Christian morality, law, iconography and mythology, then all of a sudden it's a "War on Christians".

No reasonable person would suggest that Christians not be allowed to practice their religion and live their lives as they see fit. Don't want an abortion? Don't have one. Don't like gay marraige? Don't marry someone of the same gender as you. Don't like how your neighbor lives? Mind your own fucking business.

If Christians perceive a monumental conspiracy to undermine their way of life and their grip on American culture, then that just shows their ignorance and paranoia, and not incidentally reveals the weakness of their position.

There's no War on Christians, just a Dislike for Ignorant People. ;)

- N

Something like 85 percent of the population identifies themselves as Christians and you can tell they are sincere because that's the same percentage who refuse to accept the validity of evolution.

Is this a real statistic? Could you please provide a source?

Moderate Christians, in my opinion, are the vast majority, and the vocal fundamentalist minority is what pervades our thoughts to make us believe that they are somehow waging a war on non-Christians.

Fundamentalists view the vocal Atheist minority and perceive the same.

In response to the Bush administration: Yes, the Christian right may have control, but it is a minority that has taken control over the majority.

There's no War on Christians, just a Dislike for Ignorant People. ;)

- N

Exactly why I don't like evolutionists. :D

Is this a real statistic? Could you please provide a source?Just do a Google on "Americans percentage Christians." Most of the hits have the number in the teaser without even needing to click on it. The average on the first page of hits appears to be about 79%. I'm close enough.

"Americans percentage believe evolution" doesn't yield quite as effortless a batch of hits. The most authoritative are probably CBS, which says 13%, and CNN which says 28%.Moderate Christians, in my opinion, are the vast majority, and the vocal fundamentalist minority is what pervades our thoughts to make us believe that they are somehow waging a war on non-Christians.Moderate, schmoderate. When the vast majority of the population is either so uneducated or so riven by cognitive dissonance that they can gainsay evolution, this is a war on science, not a war on Christianity.Yes, the Christian right may have control, but it is a minority that has taken control over the majority.Let me repeat myself: minority, schminority. What matters is their accomplishments and they are positively frightening. At the risk of violating Godwin's Law, I have to say that fundamentalist Christian philosphy has almost as much of a stranglehold on America as Nazism did on Germany, regardless of the number of people who would identify themselves as one or the other.

Being atheist is not about being against theists.

Being atheist is about being unable to rationalize certain of the theists' irrationalities.

Rejection of ideas shouldn't become a rejection of idea holders or intolerance makes it impossible to distinguish one idea-holding camp from another.

I'm an atheist, and too many of you -- by your personal behavior/irrationalty -- give my take on reality a bad name in the market place.

I reject your irrationality, too.

God, I'm surrounded by id10t errors.

There's no War on Christians, just a Dislike for Ignorant People. ;)

- N


True, but we Christian do tend to try to see past our Dislike of Ignorant People and try to educate them :)

True, but we Christian do tend to try to see past our Dislike of Ignorant People and try to educate them :)

So do atheists.
You just don't like it when they do, and instead, you call it "a war".

True, but we Christian do tend to try to see past our Dislike of Ignorant People and try to educate them :)

This was the most ignorant sentence of the year. Congratulations! :confused:

Let's nail all these so-called 'Christians' up on crosses. See how they like it then.

This was the most ignorant sentence of the year. Congratulations! :confused:
No, I think mine was.

As aggressive as these kind of Christians are, .A, Is there a "war"? Is there a war just on the "aggressive" Christians?

Because the American political vernacular has been muddied with proclamations of "war" on anything disagreeable or politically leveragable, "war" like "jihad" has been reduced to nonsense.

Do you feel that this is true?
no there is non

For once ... oh, somebody finally finally said it:


"This is a skirmish over religious pluralism, and the inclination to see it as a war against Christianity strikes me as a spoiled-brat response by Christians who have always enjoyed the privileges of a majority position," said the Rev. Robert M. Franklin, a minister in the Church of God in Christ and professor of social ethics at Emory University. (from topic article (http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2006/03/28/AR2006032801632.html))

Perhaps it is natural for a propped-up and increasingly rickety socially-privileged group to recoil at the thought of being equal to their neighbors.

Let's be careful, you know, about bringing up the oppressed and underprivileged. After all, it means a few people don't get to feel so special, I guess. Er, whatever.

"Equal?" he shrieks. "Oh, the horror! The injustice! The unfairness of having to be equal!"

If Christians spend all their time evangelizing among their non-Christian neighbors, no one sees any problem with that.Nice sarcasm. More on this in a moment.No reasonable person would suggest that Christians not be allowed to practice their religion and live their lives as they see fit. Don't want an abortion? Don't have one. Don't like gay marraige? Don't marry someone of the same gender as you. Don't like how your neighbor lives? Mind your own fucking business.This leads us into the classic conflict between my neighbor's right to swing his arm in any direction and my right not to have my nose hit by his fist. Christianity, like Islam, is the worst kind of religion: evangelical. The people who with some justification claim to be the true bearers of Jesus's teachings believe that the practice of their religion requires them to aggressively thrust themselves into everyone else's lives until we all renounce our own lifestyles and adopt theirs. They regard our telling them to "mind their own fucking business" and let us live our lives as we like as a violation of their religious freedom to pursue one of the four or five most important tenets of their faith. This is a conflict that cannot possibly be resolved to the satisfaction of both sides. If Christians perceive a monumental conspiracy to undermine their way of life and their grip on American culture, then that just shows their ignorance and paranoia, and not incidentally reveals the weakness of their position.As I just stated a few minutes ago on another thread, I am second to no one in my revulsion against the Abrahamist religions and the pathetic oversimplified model of the human spirit that turns their followers into a barely-repressed horde of Neolithic villagers armed with torches and pitchforks. Nonetheless your statement is as oversimplified as their religion. They are not "ignorant." They read the First Amendment and see in it an unlimited right to do everything a rather uncontroversial interpretation of their prophet's teachings seems to command them to do: to turn the entire human race into a Christian community.

They are not "paranoid" to suspect that their non-Abrahamist neighbors have finally lost our patience and our tolerance, and wonder whether the survival of civilization depends on finally bringing Christian and Muslim evangelism to a halt.

There's no war on Christians... but it's not a bad idea.

Do you feel that this is true?
why is it that everything is war, war, in us?

Well, I'd agree that in my field there certainly is a "war on Christians". It's extraordinarily dangerous to mention Christian affiliation in either biology or evolutionary science. Mind you, I know of one prof who is known to be religious - but his current position of power puts him above career concerns that might otherwise, shall we say, weigh him down a little. ;)

why is it that everything is war, war, in us?Because whenever we declare war on something, we get more of it. For example the War on Poverty and the War on Drugs.

why is it that everything is war, war, in us?

What would YOU like to call it? And does that make it any different or less offensive? If you call murder "putting someone to sleep for a long, long time", does it make murder less of a crime?

Baron Max

i would be hard-pressed to call anything current as being a "war on christianity" but if you got me to the point of accepting that, then i'd have to say that it was the christians who started it and the christians who are the major aggressor (even if they think their aggression is simply 'good christian values')

Does that then mean that individual Christians should suffer?

Should individual muslims suffer for the acts of their religion in the last 1400 years? Secularists for theirs?