So,yes or no,after the world war 2 many people wanted to talk with the dead,some even say that dead soldiers(during wrold war) told where enemies' warehouse of weapons was?
So,do mediums people really talk to the dead,or it is just another farse?
Does anyone know are there any truly confrimed mediums who can indeed talk to the dead?
So,what today's scientists/explorers say about this phenomenon,is it confirmed that imediums truly are speaking with dead or not?

My take is simple, Life after death doesn't exist in anyform. Once you die your body just decays and wrots and might be home to some bacteria and bottom of the food chain lifeforms. However what was you, your consciousness and identity are lost forever other than the artifacts you leave behind for future generations like written material, film or your immortalised name in stone as a grave stone.

Mediums that claim they speak with the dead are either complete frauds in the sense that they know nothing and generalise until they see an expression change within a client or they actually work with a team of investigators that gain the background information on the clients departed love one. For instance if they gain enough information they could string someone into a few visits and charge them a great deal of money to cover both the investigation fees plus their own trumped up commission.

However on the otherhand it's preposed that the more adventureous scientists and theorists depict it could be possible to "generate" life after death, but it would mean anything "spiritual" like a ghost or loved one would actually be housed in computer framework and projected from that, but that means having the equipment scan them before death which brings about questions as whether the equipment could be used to help the individual by not actually allowing them to die in the first place.

You could suggest from the latter that such systems could well be attributed to L.A.D.E. (Life After Death Experiences) or O.B.E. (Outter Body Experiences)

It is most probably a scam, at the moment these tv programs are really popular. there are loads of them, and although they do seem really quite amazing. If someone has that kind of power, chances are they wouldn't want to exploit it on television, or they'd be more enlightened to go on TV with it. But Derrern Brown for instance does some stuff that i can't for the life of me figure out, i know he's not spiritual coz he's said he isn't but i really want to know HOW he does that stuff!

Well Television studies come from the same backgrounding as Theatrics, therefore it's all Theatre.

Yes, but I would not have believed it until I had experienced it myself. When my body was taken over by a recently deceased entity I almost panicked but the the spiritual circle I attended the first time told me that I as sitting on the chair of a member that died two days ago, and I could let it go (not it me, get it) because fighting it just made it clutch onto my body even harder.Those ten minutes seemed like an eternity, but other encounters are not nearly so scary, just potentially so,--and it is I that is causing any fear. After death, etc, these are just spirits and cannot have a physical effect that I do not allow. So a medium advised me to create a stronger shield to protect myself from unwanted contact.

We can't say that we truly encountered a person, just a spirit that can make itslef known by communicating things no one else should know.

Let me put it like this, I've see this stuff done from the Fraud's side. The current evolution in technologies pretty much means that the creation of a "Spirit" passing through a person although complex is not impossible to generate through machines.

For instance not all Parapsychologists study Paraphenomona, some actually study how to create man-made effects that "pass off" as paraphenomona. Of course their agenda might be to provide clues over what is fact or fiction, but this is where Frauds tend to step in. It's a known fact that Frauds prey upon the weak, if they spot a weakness they go for it to usually get money or credibility out of someone.

For instance you might see or feel something near a medium and you might not have parted with money, however if you are running around a circle of friends expressing what you saw and how you felt you are basically fullfilling their advertisement needs and therefore they make fame and fortune through the distortion of facts through "polymorphic whispers". (Once was called "Chinese Whispers" but since it names a country, it appeared racist)

I read 3 books by John Edwards and the description given in the book really made me think. I was a skeptic and never believed in hear say but when I saw Edward on CNN with Larry david and he spoke to deceased people related to random callers ..one caller was from Japan ...it made me go and get those books.

I just want to say that I started believing in that stuff ...I am not a religious person and if you have been a regular reader you will see I am more an atheist than follow any religion ...so please do not brush my note as one of those christian ..jesus and bible thumpers...

I would suggest everyone do some research I did and it made me change my mind ...Think about your soul as a being from 10th dimension ... it can live in all the bodies or multiple bodies at the same time ... so when one dies ...the other can talk to the deceased person by proper meditation or as John Edward says increasing the vibrations.

(http://www.johnedward.net/)

I've already mentioned something along that theoretical lines before. It's not so much spiritual as science. For instance "Schrodingers Cat" a famous theoretical experiment involved placing a cat in a box with a particular configuration of apparatus to get a better understanding about the universe.

In the experiment while the cat was in the box, it existed both alive and dead (due to the causality of a hammer eventually dropping and smashing a posionous gas vial when an atomic substance lost it's radioactive property.)

The experiment was theoretically taken further with "Wigners Friend" where Wigner decided to add to the conundrum by introducing a human assistant in the cats place. Of course the human shouldn't be killed (nor the cat for that matter) however this then causes another problem (in theory) of two universes being displaced.

I already know about the "other" universes from when I caught the reflection of parapsychologists taking pictures of a mirror in my flat... From a different "spacetime".
(Namely I saw them in the mirror behind the camera after it's flash) This is why I'm beyond skeptical and know it all to be smoke and mirrors.

So,yes or no,after the world war 2 many people wanted to talk with the dead,some even say that dead soldiers(during wrold war) told where enemies' warehouse of weapons was?
So,do mediums people really talk to the dead,or it is just another farse?
Does anyone know are there any truly confrimed mediums who can indeed talk to the dead?
So,what today's scientists/explorers say about this phenomenon,is it confirmed that imediums truly are speaking with dead or not?


They don't talk to the dead, they investigate who their next mark is and then CONvinvince them they can talk to the dead and make money in doing so.

Alright ...I say you read the books and if possible do a search on the larry king shows transcript. I say no way John Edward would have convinced the widow of Space Shuttle astronaut to play along with a crowd of 300+ ... There is a limit to the smoke and mirror ..mostly the law of physics ...John Edwards was tested with other psychics by scientist and they all came up with a very high percentage of information received from the deceased energy ..I don't think a scientist would create or be part of a big hoax when he spent all his life being a skeptic and trying to figure out a scientific reason for these phenomena.

I have read some Larry King transcripts and they are not convincing.

Don't know what you mean by this "There is a limit to the smoke and mirror ..mostly the law of physics ..."

John Edwards has been tested by Gary Schwartz but the tests have been highly criticised.

When scientists believe deeply in something that they are testing they are sometimes not objective. Misses are ignored and answers are twisted and distorted to be made into hits. There are scientists who don't seem to be sceptical at all.

No hoaxing is needed. Just people ready to believe.

It is amazing what evolved advanced technology can accomplish.

Mediums are nothing more than well versed neurolinguistic programmers. They are incredibly adept at the reading the person they are performing the seance for.
Ever seen Derren Brown at work? He would concur with me.

peace

c20

I had a friend who could channel dead people. I know, she went through a rough childhood. She does not believe she talks to them but somehow words just come to her effortlessly just like we talk normally or the thought come to you when you want a pizza. There must be some part of her brain that starts the story board that she does not actively control...may be that is basic to most of us to say a story that sometimes matches and sometimes does not....all you need is practice....

I used to, and still do believe that when we die our bodies decay and become just another part of the planet. HOWEVER, things that I've experienced over the past couple of years have caused me to examine other instances that have happened to me in the past decade that I've dismissed as probably just some freaky coincidence. I don't have any reason to lie to anyone; I don't care if anyone believes me or not: I have had experiences which I now believe to be contact by deceased 'energies'. I have no way of explaining it and I don't want to try to convince anyone that it's happened.

So I guess I'm just trying to say to the skeptics that the world thought the earth was flat once. I hope some day I learn to control my contact but at the moment I don't know when or where I am going to experience it. To those who believe something is there, I can say with certainty (although I still find it hard to believe) that stuff does happen and it's not me or anyone alive causing it.

Cheers
Teri

I have an open mind, but there is no such thing as a true medium. They are very adept at asking leading questions and cold reading. I have seen a few on the TV and does'nt take very long to see how they manipulate the crowd. Like i said, i have an open mind, but mediums really are a total fraud

Hello Teri...just because you can not explain how brain works (I recommend the book: On Intelligence) does not mean you have to believe that people talk to dead people. At the same time, if that is true and scientifically proven then we can seek other explanations as to what happens to our consciousness when we die. Until then, such items are not ture - it is magic, a show.

If it is a real phenomenon, talking to the dead, then why don't mediums use their gift to transcribe stories, poetry and history from humanity's best, but lost, minds? Surely Walt Whitman had more poetry in him. Or Poe one more frightening tale to tell. Couldn't they find Hoffa? Couldn't they get new insights from Einstein or Feynman? Wouldn't Sagan have something to say? :)

Hell, I'd even bet some of the Apostles (or those that knew them) could offer some interesting insights and first-hand perspectives on a few events. What really happened at the Crucifiction?

Instead, Edwards and his ilk offer only a good cold read to a few willing participants. There have even been investigative reporters that have exposed the John Edwards show methodology that is used to cheat the marks.

All the things you all have said are logical and make sense to me. I still don't know exactly how I feel about John Edward. I can't say for certain I believe everything. The thing is I'm not saying I talk to anyone (only in the sense of thinking about that particular person and asking a mental question) but I don't get answers per se, I get strange signs or occurrences.

My experiences have been mainly lights coming on and later going off after thinking about particular people who have died -not everyone, only those that have been close to me.

Other times I lie in bed and I feel 'something' that feels like a cat or kitten, walk over my legs on top of the blanket. One night I swear that my hair was being messed up by 'something' while I was lying in bed, and that too felt like a kitten playing with a ball of wool (my head being the wool!)

I'll lie there feeling this for a short time, absolutely straining to possibly hear something; but there is no noise. Finally I have to turn on a light and of course there's nothing there. The first few times I told myself it was my imagination; that I must have been subconsciously thinking of something that may have triggered these things. But it's times where I know I've been sleeping, and suddenly wake-up, opening my eyes, and being fully aware of a presence. It has freaked me out a little and I still feel like an idiot even talking about it.

But it's happening and I can't pretend it hasn't. A lot of other weird coincidences have compounded my belief in this, but they're too numerous to mention and too easily dismissed as coincidences or some other such explanation.

SkinWalker, I agree with your question - why is everything so elusive? Why don't these entities comunicate with us in a manner we can absolutely not doubt?

Slotty, I'm not sure of 'true' mediums either. And Kmguru (glad to see a familiar name by the way) the human brain is a facinating subject. I'd like to read a lot more and any of your recommendations are welcome.

All I want to say is I have felt these things and if they are explained away one day I won't be upset. But for now, there is no explanation and I don't want to force anyone to believe me. I find myself shrugging my shoulders thinking 'oh well, shit happens I guess.' I still don't know.

So if things have happened to you, I'll understand: And if you don't believe a word of it, I'll understand that also.

Be happy.
Cheers
Teri

I read 3 books by John Edwards and the description given in the book really made me think. I was a skeptic and never believed in hear say but when I saw Edward on CNN with Larry david and he spoke to deceased people related to random callers ..one caller was from Japan ...it made me go and get those books.

I just want to say that I started believing in that stuff ...I am not a religious person and if you have been a regular reader you will see I am more an atheist than follow any religion ...so please do not brush my note as one of those christian ..jesus and bible thumpers...

I would suggest everyone do some research I did and it made me change my mind ...Think about your soul as a being from 10th dimension ... it can live in all the bodies or multiple bodies at the same time ... so when one dies ...the other can talk to the deceased person by proper meditation or as John Edward says increasing the vibrations.

(http://www.johnedward.net/)Then stop believing that stuff straight away. John Edward's books are hardly going to be objective, neither is he going to detail the real techniques by which he achieves his effects. John Edward will talk in terms of "10th dimension" and "vibrations", but there is no actual evidence for such things - it's simply the mumbo-jumbo by which he maintains his (for want of a better word) credibility with the credulous.

Alright ...I say you read the books and if possible do a search on the larry king shows transcript. I say no way John Edward would have convinced the widow of Space Shuttle astronaut to play along with a crowd of 300+ ... There is a limit to the smoke and mirror ..mostly the law of physics ...John Edwards was tested with other psychics by scientist and they all came up with a very high percentage of information received from the deceased energy ..I don't think a scientist would create or be part of a big hoax when he spent all his life being a skeptic and trying to figure out a scientific reason for these phenomena.There is a limit to smoke and mirrors, but that limit is far from being breached by anything that happens in a TV studio filled with people willing to be duped; which is the standard mode for anyone in the audience at a séance programme, including, undoubtedly, the widows of Space Shuttle astronauts. You don't explain how Edwards and the other psychics were supposedly tested by a scientist, but since there is no such (scientific) phenomenum as "deceased energy", it sounds like the person doing the testing was into some kind of fraud himself.

Teri, you are suffering from a variety of sleep-related mental phenomena, such as sleep paralysis. You do not experience anything other than through your consciousness, so in fact your initial impression (that it was just your imagination) was the correct one. I don't want to denigrate how you feel about this, in fact what I am trying to do is to reassure you. It is very easy for people to get into a cycle of negative feedback from such experiences - and I know that they can be very frightening indeed. Viz Visited's experience:Yes, but I would not have believed it until I had experienced it myself. When my body was taken over by a recently deceased entity I almost panicked but the the spiritual circle I attended the first time told me that I as sitting on the chair of a member that died two days ago, and I could let it go (not it me, get it) because fighting it just made it clutch onto my body even harder.Those ten minutes seemed like an eternity, but other encounters are not nearly so scary, just potentially so,--and it is I that is causing any fear. After death, etc, these are just spirits and cannot have a physical effect that I do not allow. So a medium advised me to create a stronger shield to protect myself from unwanted contact.But if you'd seen a doctor or psychologist, it's unlikely that they would have put you through such a horrifying experience for the sole purpose of strengthening your belief in the supernatural. The spiritual circle may not be deliberate con artists, but they have a vested interest in maintaining the purported reality of whatever phenomena they can interpret as showing the existence of spirits. Whereas a doctor or psychologist would only be interested in your mental well-being, and would, I guarantee you, carefully steer you away from paranormal explanations for what happened to you.

Silas,
I was disconcerted and disappointed with your replies to Guru, Visited and myself. You are surmising; assuming; diagnosing and advising, without any qualifications or research to support your contentions. Clearly your conclusions are based solely on your own opinions: I would prefer to exchange theories about these occurrences with people who are experiencing the subject matter, or are not quite so restricted in thought or knowledge.

Cheers
Teri

I have no qualifications, that is quite true. However, I have read fairly extensively, and I am thoroughly acquainted with rational, scientific, logical and skeptical thinking. But specifically your thing - yes, I have had experience of it.

Guru claimed to be a skeptical and rational thinker, and yet one transcript of a tv programme, followed by the purchase of three books caused him to become a believer. I merely pointed out the illogic of believing what is written by the conman himself.

Visited described undergoing a traumatic experience. I cannot imagine sitting in a room with someone who tells me that he's under some kind of mental attack, and then telling him that the chair he is sitting on belonged to someone who died two days ago. That is not how normal, rational people behave! If someone in my presence felt a sudden, irrational fear, I would do everything in my power to reassure them that there were no real demons or spirits hovering nearby, or indeed anywhere, and that the pathway out of his fear was to hold onto the real, the material and the physical.

That, in essence, was what I was trying to do for you, too, Teri. As a matter of fact, yours is the only one of the three I've had direct experience of myself. Last week I awoke to find myself in an utterly paralysed state. I was in half a dream state, too, so I frequently got up and went downstairs, only to open my eye and find myself back in bed and paralysed again. How could I tell I was paralysed and awake? Because when I waved my right arm, nothing appeared in front of my face. My brain was totally issuing the commands and feeling the correct response from the arm - and yet nothing was really happening. There is no more vulnerable feeling. In the past, similar experiences have had me feeling that someone (a woman) was in bed with me, and I could feel everything about her being real - and yet she was not. However, having done some reading and seen a couple of documentaries on this subject, I'm perfectly satisfied that my experiences have a rational basis, and that however bad, frightening and vulnerable I feel when having it (I used to get the paralysis a lot and I can tell you it is not pleasant at all), I'm reassured by the fact that I know that any presences I feel in my room at that time are purely imaginary.

I would like you to think about your experiences and think through the possible consequences of each explanation. If there's a mysterious spirit which is messing about with you in some way, exactly what can you do about it? Who can you go to for help? Is there any actual, physical evidence of their presence or is it as if they weren't there? If someone explained to you everything there was to know about this spirit - who it was, where they came from, what they wanted from you - exactly how does that help you to fight it?

Conversely, there is clearly no physical evidence of its presence, you just feel things on your hair or your legs on occasion when you're lying in bed after just waking or just on the point of sleeping, and it's obviously just part of your imagination. Is it a pleasant experience? Undoubtedly not. But what is the benefit of imagining a real threat, if it's possible to dismiss it as pure imagination?

In my view, the first way - well, that way madness lies. And the second way is likely to promote a healthier mental outlook all round. Your case is slightly different from the other two - it's only you involved (in my view, "you're only fooling yourself"). In the case of John Edward and Visited's "spiritual circle" we are dealing with people who deliberately exploit either people's grief or their fear of the unknown, either to bolster their own beliefs, or manifestly in the case of Edward, to make money as the star of a top-rated TV show.

For a clear available exposition of the fraudulence of all mediums, I recommend the article William James and Mrs. Piper by Martin Gardner, available in his book <a href="http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/0312169493/qid=1100877088/sr=8-1/ref=sr_8_xs_ap_i1_xgl14/104-0715737-8158313?v=glance&s=books&n=507846">The Night is Large: Collected Essays 1938 - 1995</a>.

Hi Silas, :)

It seems to me that you and I are both rational people – although I am making this assumption from our brief exchange but I respect your outlook on the subject. I cannot defend or argue on behalf of Guru or Visited, so I’ll keep this exchange only between us.

I know exactly whose energy is around me –it’s my older brother-- and I can say with complete honesty that he would be the last person I would have expected to be communicating with me, because while he was alive my relationship with him was strained due to the influences of other family members: We pretty much stayed away from each other due to unfounded lies.

Firstly, please know that this is a new occurrence in my life. It was unexpected, and prior to it happening, I never even considered that I would experience this. I believe myself to be an open-minded person and I need convincing to accept something that has never before presented itself so blatantly. I don’t feel threatened, frightened or apprehensive about any of it, and I don’t feel the need to ‘do’ anything about it. It’s only the one energy that is around me (I don’t think I could handle any more anyway), and I believe that sooner or later he will move on. But for now there is nothing to be frightened about.

In the beginning I did dismiss events as pure coincidence or that I'd developed some newfound imagination. I even used to tell my workmates about things that were happening and have a giggle about it. But now, experiences are happening too often and I know that people would soon be thinking I’ve lost the plot. (Aussie expression).

As I sit here replying to you, I’ve decided to keep a diary for my own benefit. I wrote in an earlier post that I didn’t want to have to justify myself by listing events, and I still feel this way. The important thing for me is that I am aware of what is happening, and, again, I don’t care if you believe me or not. The events are too personal to be written about on the Internet, and human nature is fairly predictable. I hope you understand what I’m saying. I will, however, have a look around for the book you mentioned so I can form my own opinion about the explanations given.

If you would like to further discuss this, I would be happy to exchange PM's.

So cheers for now.
Teri

Just as human mind needs a body to exist, even a non-corporeal entity would need a mechanism to hold its charged particles or energy and be able to have an energy conversion system. With all the highly developed multispectral sensor technology, we should be able to locate and communicate if such entities exist.

Something to think about...

kmguru,
After reading your reply, you have actually prompted me to learn about the nature of energy: I'm now on a quest to learn as much about all forms of energy as possible. If it leads me to discount or amend my ideas and theories about the energy of deceased persons, then so be it.

It's just kind of frustrating when a scientist speaks of the phenomena of black holes or dark matter and it is accepted unconditionally and researched further. Energy is converted from one form to another all the time: It cannot be destroyed. I am finding it to be an amazing topic. (This has given me a question for the scientists in the forum but is not appropriate here)

When ordinary people speak of energies of the type we are discussing, they are dismissed simply because they have not yet been able to conclusively prove they exist.

When you think about the many things in this universe we don't understand, it's disappointing that contemplating that a deceased person's energy could not possibly exist. Why is it so unimaginable that the things we are discussing cannot happen?

Of course a deceased person's energy continues to exist. It just takes a chemical process to make use of it. Like cremation. Stand close to the body and you can absorb some of that energy in the form of warmth. Eat the body and you take on it's energy in the form of carbohydrates and proteins... how many calories in the average person?

Teri:
After my post, I was thinking about, if a non-corporeal lifeform is possible on Earth. Only one such life may be possible, that is Earth itself. Earth can contain a cohesive energy field due to the magnetic field as a containment in the polar regions and the energy it receives from the Sun and genarates the electrical charge out of lightening etc. Does that mean, Earth is an intelligent being? Who knows? Some say, the automated natural cycles is the proof...

It's just kind of frustrating when a scientist speaks of the phenomena of black holes or dark matter and it is accepted unconditionally and researched further. Energy is converted from one form to another all the time: It cannot be destroyed. I am finding it to be an amazing topic. (This has given me a question for the scientists in the forum but is not appropriate here)I'm very glad you're getting some kind of education in scientific matters. Let me however clarify a few matters. Whatever "aura" or "energy" you are experiencing will not, I guarantee, be picked up by any kind of scientific instrument. Since the energy you are experiencing is outside the purview of scientific exploration, there isn't even any way of knowing whether it falls within the conventional scientific laws of energy conservation.

Secondly, there is actually no such thing as "unconditional acceptance" in the scientific community. That is what science is - the conditional acceptance of theories which are supported, it is to be hoped, by some kind of mathematical analysis in the first instance, and subsequently backed up by experimental or observational evidence. Black holes are nothing more than a consideration of the laws of gravitation in extremis, to whit: what would happen if enough mass concentrated together to create a gravitational force stronger than the electromagnetic, nuclear strong and nuclear weak forces? It's been calculated that a star would only have to be 1.4 times the mass of our Sun for it to become a black hole when it collapsed at the end of its life as a normal star. It's not unlikely that they do exist therefore. So astronomers look for the evidence of their presence. Dark Matter comes from the other direction - the galaxies are not expanding or moving in a way totally consistent with Newtonian gravity or Einstein's General Relativity - so to explain what we are seeing, scientists postulate Dark Matter. It may, however, turn out to be a chimera like the aether of the 19th Century. But it is taken seriously because it's mathematically and conceptually valid.

Silas,
Firstly, I'll just get this out of the way - when I wrote the words 'accepted unconditionally', I was actually only trying to say that such things are given more credence; but that is just an aside.

Now, keeping in mind I have no qualifications of any kind in any of the areas we are discussing, I wonder whether you could maybe explain to me in layman's terms the difference in enthusiasm to investigate matters of black holes in relation to investigating the possibility of any kind of non-corporeal intelligent energy, force, or spirit, or whatever anyone wants to call the supernatural experience.

You wrote: "It's been calculated that a star would only have to be 1.4 times the mass of our Sun for it to become a black hole when it collapsed at the end of its life as a normal star. It's not unlikely that they do exist therefore. So astronomers look for the evidence of their presence." It's that last sentence I've fixated upon - the fact that scientists 'look for evidence of their presence'.

When I think about the concept of a black hole: a void where everything is extinguished - energy, light, even time itself - I can't really wrap my mind around the concept. It's as difficult as trying to imagine infinity; or simpler still, the distance of the universe. To me these things are wondrous in themselves.

Then I'll come back to earth with a bang and find I'm experiencing things that many other people have claimed to have experienced, even some of the most intelligent of minds, and I wonder why science continually pushes these things into another category. I've gone through my whole life never really taking seriously the experiences people have claimed, but I do keep an open mind. It becomes a whole other story when you experience it yourself.

This is the reason the urge to learn about energy in all forms has become important. I want an explanation - this is my dilema.

I hope I’m making some sense. It really is difficult trying to explain myself here. I don’t want the tone of this post to be taken the wrong way. I have no hostility or agitation at anyone. It is at these times I wish I had a super computer to answer my questions so I don’t have to reveal my ignorance to members of the human race. :o

In any case
Have a good day
Teri