Dear Men of Science:
I have recently read on a German web site that when certain crop circles mathematical equations are paired they represent coordinants to stars in our galaxy. Does this mean that certain intellegent beings are trying to give us hints of thier off world location?Go to www.franklaumen.com (http://www.franklaumen.com) and see them for yourself.

Machiaventa Speaks :rolleyes: :rolleyes:

[This message has been edited by paul defourneaux (edited August 03, 2000).]

[This message has been edited by paul defourneaux (edited August 03, 2000).]

No. Crop circles were made by man.

Case closed.

Hi Paul!

Long time no hearing from you.

Concerning crop circles: I also believe they are man-made. If someone gives a certain interpretation to those patterns, fine, but to me it's like having a discussion on the form and filosophical interpretation of a drop of inkt on a piece of paper: timeconsuming and not very enlightening ;).

BTW: The URL doesn't seem to exist ?

Bye!

Crisp


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"The best thing you can become in life is yourself" -- M. Eyskens.

The link didn't work, man. Tell ya what, though. If an extraterrestrial intelligence were interested in having us contact them, you'd think that with all of their intelligence they'd realize that we don't speak the same language and would come to the conclusion that writing is useless. If they've got something to say, all these years of hinting around haven't been working, so they'd better come out and just say it.

Sorry:
The link was posted wrong, when I tried to edit it it would not change.I am trying to post this the right way. Here it is folks:http//:www.franklaumen.de/Anfang.htm
:cool: :cool: :cool:

Paul/Machiaventa

[This message has been edited by paul defourneaux (edited August 08, 2000).]

I saw a documentary on crop circles that
where scientist from around the globe studied
the evidence and found some interesting facts: the wheat was bent over without breaking so it was not pushed down by anything like someones foot or a vehicle.
They stated that with todays technology they cannot recreate the same affect on the wheat.
They tried many experiment to recreate it but
all attempts ended up breaking some of the wheat stalks. there is no evidence of e.t.
They concluded that the mystery can't be
solved until they see one being made.
They made no comparisons to the star charts.
I don't believe in E.T's but I'd love to know
what made these circles.

There have been many documented cases of hoaxes. Probably the vast majority of circles are made be under grads on a weekend holiday. (Hay, I would have done the same when I was young. As a matter of fact my second year at university we faked an alien attack by constructing several hot-air balloons out of plastic dry-cleaner's bags and candles and set them adrift on the early morning breeze over campus. We had a campus cop chasing a couple of them into the woods. We were very lucky we didn't start a forest fire!

But I digress... back to crop circles. I doubt if all circles (especially the early ones)were hoaxes. I suspect they may be of natural, biological origin but who knows?

Last week (August 7 -13) a new report was run on either Sky News or BBC World, stating that scientists have actually found crop circles to be caused by localised changes is magnetic fields on the surface of the Earth. When these changes occur, there is a small discharge of static electricity which causes the crops to collapse into the pattern of the magnetic disruption. Anyone else see these reports?


Cheers,

Henrik



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Chaos, panic and disorder - my work here is done

Hi all,

Well, I didn't see that particular documentary, but I've seen plenty of others. I always find it very amusing to see people standing on some grass saying "I feel the power"... Makes you wonder what kinda grass they smoked.

Anyway, I am convinced that they are all man-made. I personally know some artists and I can tell you that when they get an idea, they will realize it, no matter how. To me cropcircles are just like graffiti: another way of art which attracts loads of attention in the beginning, but gets kinda boring after the first 20 you saw.

About the "no human being could ever possibly make that Julia fractalset in crop": well yes, Leonardo da Vinci didn't paint every hair of the Mona Lisa, Michelangelo didn't paint the pope's chapel (sorry, don't know how to phrase it in English) and the piramids weren't built.

Bye!

Crisp


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"The best thing you can become in life is yourself" -- M. Eyskens.

True, but there is evidence of many crop circles containing slight amounts of radioactivity, and the wheat seeds were distorted. And it is nearly impossible to do something on such a great scale. I mean, some artist, which is either a) drunk, or b) on drugs, going out in the middle of the night, creating a vast complex picture, without any help from the air, without leaving any footprints, pushing the wheat down without breaking it, braiding and tieing the wheat on occassion, create a slight magnetic field through unkown mysterious forces, and finally smuggle some radioactive material and sprinkle it all about, is (in my mind) absurd. Also these artists are in control of a huge international orginization spreading back hundreds of years and devoted to creating circles all over the earth. Lots are created by hoaxers true, but some were created by forces beyond me. Thx for letting me rant, i had to get it out of my system. And also, i shall deliver the rasberry, just for kicks :p

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Questions? Comments? Concerns?

regarding crop circles and any equations which arise from them (likely topographical algebra or geometry, or others of course): These things are man made, the conspirators revealed themselves, their methods, and their tools. They even demonstrated how it was all done. They are man made. In light of equations-this sort of thing reminds me of when cults leaders take obscure numerical references in the bible and try to come up with some particular date that the world will end. This is mathematical bullhockey. One thing that is clear about mathematics is that, given enough knowhow, one can make math say about anything. All you have to do is be good at rationalizing nonsensical, unrelated topics. Also the positions of stars are so many that I would be suprized if, given one could quantify anything about the crop circles, they did not correspond with some star positions. Its like shooting blindly into the sky and hoping to hit the sky, not terribly hard.

micah

I'm undecided on who/what is behind them, I don't reject that they are man made but perhaps those of you who are convinced they are man made could explain how the stems are melted at a molecular level???? i.e. not bent not broken MELTED and keep growing with a bend in the stem?? I have only ever read 1 explination that would account for this. But I'd like to here your answers first.

Originally posted by Henrik
Last week (August 7 -13) a new report was run on either Sky News or BBC World, stating that scientists have actually found crop circles to be caused by localised changes is magnetic fields on the surface of the Earth. When these changes occur, there is a small discharge of static electricity which causes the crops to collapse into the pattern of the magnetic disruption. Anyone else see these reports?



i've seen that theory before, and i think it's bogus for the simple reason that almost all of the circles are particular patterns or pictures, such as the fractals of the Mandlebrot and Julia sets. almost all of the circles are variations of man-made geometric patterns, like the pyramids and star of david, etc. the notion that it's a fluke of nature is just absurd.

however, there are electromagnetic disturbances caused by water patterns underneath the surface of the earth where the bulk of the crops are being formed. whoever is making them must be using something that harnesses that energy.

my theory is that it's someone with a shitload of money (a Rockefeller or Rotheschilde perhaps??) who invested in some zero-point energy machine. so, yes, it is man-made, but the evidence is overwhelming that it is NOT possible to do these patterns with wooden planks.

some pics of the most recent ones:
http://www.temporarytemples.co.uk/imagelib/A-2002.html


btw, anyone's whose interested, Tuesday Feb 18th at 7pm EST we're interviewing filmmaker William Gazecki about his current documentary Crop Circles: Quest for Truth on our radio show. go to http://catacombs-channel.net for more info.

peace,
zack

The only argument I've ever seen that would suggest them not being a hoax is the whole stem bending/melting evidence. i have yet to see the hard evidence though, only the mention of it. Anyone have a link to something showing some magnification or analysis or something about what happened to the plants? Without it, it's all hearsay in my book.

And no, I doubt most are natural, due to the various shapes and symbols. Perhaps the first observed one was a freak of nature, and someone took the idea and ran with it.

Both sites listed are great sites for the pictures...I notice the latter even sells them. :rolleyes:

Given the lack of info on the plants, I could think of various ways to make patterns within crops without other people noticing, especially over a long term, and then call the papers as if it's an overnight thing. Apparently there's some money to be made here...

i too have wandered around the theory that someone is making them to make a profit off of them. but you have to realize the implications...

first off, you need a large group of people to pull it off in a short amount of time, that's pretty much a given, unless you have some sort of high technology that will help you (which the magnetic radiation left behind suggests). either way, you need loads of money (unless the people are volunteers... maybe a cult of some sort??), and the money people are making off of pictures of them doesn't seem like it would suffice.

secondly, you would need a master artist to organize such an event. i have to admit, i was in the marching band in high school and we did some pretty crazy shapes on the field. but there were 120 of us. most crop circles are around the size of a football field (some even larger) and the pattern of overlaying the crops (which can be seen in the crop circle pics by the way the sun shines on them) is extremely intricate and precise. they get into that in Gazecki's movie.

you gotta admit here... scientists have used all sorts of instruments to determine their geometric perfection and have come up with very slim chances (like one in 46 million! see: http://www.dcccs.org/ccff.htm last paragraph on left-hand side) that the geometrical accuracy could have happened by coincidence.

also, the radiation hasn't only been found on one or two of the formations, it's a common occurance. (for stem node and radiation info see: http://www.diagnosis2012.co.uk/blt1.htm ) stem nodes don't just melt, they explode! what's causing this occurance??

so whoever is making them isn't just some schmoe, it's someone with access to a lot of technology.

there's also the occurance of white balls of light around the formations and in other fields. they've been recorded, and Gazecki actually shows a few of them in the documentary. pretty impressive as people are clearly seeing the balls of light from different positions on the land. in one of the videos, you see the ball of light pass by a tractor and the tractor stops to look at it. another one, the ball of light comes out and two black military helicopters come flying up to look at it. this is strange phenomena we're dealing with here...

Puzzling...I'd suggest the plasma/sprite connection with something about the areas affected, as they mentioned in the last article, with the aquifers doing something to attract the charge.

But not if the really weird shapes, like the fractal sets, have the same evidence of structure change. My question at this point would be, is there a correllation between the type of shape and the evidence left behind? Do they all share the same charge, radiation, and physical damage, or is this only found in the more natural shapes? Plus, do the locations all have something in common as the plasma/sprite theory suggests?

I don't know if I can write them all off as a hoax...but I'd have to rule out natural causes way before any thoughts of an outside influence crossed my mind.

http://www.circlemakers.org/

Home page of the originators of crop circles.

yes, both the plasma and sprite issues are very interesting. there's a still on the video of a map showing where the bulk of the circles show up and the correlation with the aquifers is amazing. i'll have to watch the video again to find that still cuz i can't seem to find it online anywhere (maybe i can get it from the DVD myself).

also, another thing i find really interesting is that there is much noise about people that claim to have 'interacted' with the circles, or the circlemakers, by holding meditation circles and trying to send a specific pattern mentally. of course they claim to have been answered with the exact formation they 'sent', but it's hearsay, so that's tough evidence to go by. but why would people spend so much time convincing themselves of such a thing? and these are groups of people saying this too. not saying it can't be faked, especially since it can't be proven. but it's an interesting social phenomenon that is surrounding the whole thing.

the most important part of the phenomenon, though, is the religious implications. lots of the formations are variations on ancient sacred geometric symbols, the newest ones reflecting various symbols of mathematics and astronomy, showing the circlemakers' interest in general 'higher wisdom' if that is an appropriate term to use.

bwahahahaa! yeah two guys are running around with wooden planks, mmmhmm... believe whatever you need to believe dude.

oh and to answer your question about consistency of structure change in the crops throughout, YES the changes are all the same, no matter what crop they are. magnetic radiation which decreases with crops picked further and further away from the circles.

Thed's link convinces me that the complexity of the design isn't an issue. I love all the logos and pics, especially the one with an ET pic in the formation.

My only question now is the validity of the plant structures' being somehow changed. I'm beginning to suspect that there are a few natural ones being formed, and the evidence for these is being assumed to be true for all of them.

Unless you want to think that aliens are promoting British celebs, rock stars, or companies...:cool:

wait a minute here... have you read that site?? they say they did the crop circle in the movie Signs, which was an extremely basic one, not complex at all (Signs is also a terrible movie obviously made to throw people off track). they also say they made them with wooden planks, which doesn't account for the radiation left behind.

that site is part of a huge disinformation campaign regarding the crop circle phenomenon. i've seen the information there mutate over the years. first they were saying they did them ALL in wilkshire, now they realize there are way too many to claim and say they are influencing others to do them.

also, almost every last pic of circles they claim to have made that appear on the site are terrible, nothing showing deep complexity. so i don't doubt they made those.

notice that if they really did it, then they would need permission from the farmers, otherwise they would get into trouble.

furthermore, if they supposedly "started it", then how do you account for those that have occured throught history?

I am no alien enthusiast by any means, but one thing I can do is derive a reasonable conclusion based on the facts and evidence.

Fact: Many crop circls in the U.K. have been found to have been made by teams of hoaksters. This is still the case today.

Fact: Crop circles are a worldwide phenomena and have been for decades (centuries in certain places). The two brothers in England who made themselves famous in the 80's for revealing to a British magazine that they were responsible for England's crop circles said that they had derived the inspiration for the circles from a story out of Australia about a rash of circles there in the 70's. The Australian circles are still unexplained, as are a plethora of others in many nations around the world. (Hard to believe that people in starving Africa or the Orient will take the time out of their day to make crop circles when the news of crop circles in other locations has never reached them, thus giving them no place to derive their inspiration.

Fact: There have been crop circles pop up over night that are over 600,000 square feet in area, with hundreds of circles forming PERFECT geometrical formations.

Fact: A mathematician In New England derived the "5th theorem of Geometry" from a crop circle and actually published his findings in an academic journal.

Fact: Several reputable geologists, physicists and other types of scientists have studied these circles in depth and do not believe all of them are man made hoaxes.

Now, as for the last fact, let me post a link to a website that was published by a geophysicist from Michigan who has researched the circles for years. Not only does he find abnormal radiation readings around most circles, but he also finds that the crops continue growing but no longer can produce seeds in many cases. Also, many of the crops in the cirlce have expulsion cavaties created presumably from the extreme microwave radiation that was applied to the crops for a brief period of time. Click the link for a more in depth explanation of what this geophysicist feels is a purely natural phenomenon.

http://www.diagnosis2012.co.uk/blt1.htm

Regards

Yes, zechaeriah posted that link above, and I found it interesting to say the least, and at least a start on a natural cause. I'd like to see other sources as far as the effects on the crops. Certainly by now there'd be a huge database of specimens.

Zechaeriah, I drew the conclusion that manmade could be complex just by the various photos of crop designs on that site. Not the geometric ones, the logos and pictures...you don't think those are natural/alien created do you?

Still on the fence here...can't dismiss it as total hoax, not convinced it's some outside communication either.

YES some cropcircles most certainly DO correspond to star coordinates, for instance the cropcircles Me and some other would be funny jackass made a week ago relatively corespond to the distance between our solar system and proxima centauri.

Offcoase we figured that some I WANT TO BELIEVE ufologist would read the signs....

no, i haven't come to a major conclusion about them yet. my guess, as i stated above, is that someone with lots of money has created a machine that uses some sort of high tech that is not available to the public. either that, or it truly is something being created by some extraterrestrial being, whether it be from outer space or another dimension of reality. that may be hard to swallow, but i simply cannot see a team of people making such complex and perfectly geometrical designs with wooden planks, it's just not possible. especially when they happen overnight, in all kinds of weather, and over 200 times a year. and that's only the RECORDED ones.

i admit that some circles are made by humans, there is plenty of evidence to that. but when you look at ones reflecting fractal sets, ones with radiation left behind, and ones that are so huge it would take days to make, the whole hoax theory kinda falls short.

the fact that the bulk of them seem to be happening near other sacred geometrical patterns (i.e. stonehenge, white horse, etc) is leading many to believe the circlemakers are spiritual. but again, i don't have any strong personal assertions about them.

Why circles why not crop triangles, or is the circle symbolic for the ubiquitous flying sausager (PUN intended) banter that surrounds us ?

One ring to bind them all...hum.

The most interesting thing to the crop-circles is how they chart the culture of the late twentieth century.

Deja vu:

<i>Fact: Crop circles are a worldwide phenomena and have been for decades (centuries in certain places). The two brothers in England who made themselves famous in the 80's for revealing to a British magazine that they were responsible for England's crop circles said that they had derived the inspiration for the circles from a story out of Australia about a rash of circles there in the 70's. The Australian circles are still unexplained, as are a plethora of others in many nations around the world.</i>

It is just possible that Australians might have come up with the idea...

<i>(Hard to believe that people in starving Africa or the Orient will take the time out of their day to make crop circles when the news of crop circles in other locations has never reached them, thus giving them no place to derive their inspiration.</i>

Who says news hasn't reached them? And if they have fields full of crops I really doubt they are starving.

<i>Fact: There have been crop circles pop up over night that are over 600,000 square feet in area, with hundreds of circles forming PERFECT geometrical formations.</i>

So, they'd need a few more people to do the construction.

<i>Fact: A mathematician In New England derived the "5th theorem of Geometry" from a crop circle and actually published his findings in an academic journal.</i>

Which mathematician? Which "5th theorem"? Reference, please.

<i>Fact: Several reputable geologists, physicists and other types of scientists have studied these circles in depth and do not believe all of them are man made hoaxes.</i>

Which reputable geologists, physicists etc.?

<i>Now, as for the last fact, let me post a link to a website that was published by a geophysicist from Michigan...</i>

Note that the article is from 1998. Note where the article appears.

Originally posted by Rambler
I'm undecided on who/what is behind them, I don't reject that they are man made but perhaps those of you who are convinced they are man made could explain how the stems are melted at a molecular level???? i.e. not bent not broken MELTED and keep growing with a bend in the stem?? I have only ever read 1 explination that would account for this. But I'd like to here your answers first.

Melted on a molecular level? What the hell are you talking about? For one, the point at which most plants burn is lower than the point at which they'd melt (And as such they'd catch on fire and burn, rather than melt), and second, where the hell are you comming from with this? Crop circles are caused by groups of 2 or there people using planks of wood and some rope, they step on the bored, and hold the rope which his tied around each end, and used as a bridal of sorts, and just keep pushing them plants over, noth a whole lot to it.

Originally posted by zechaeriah
bwahahahaa! yeah two guys are running around with wooden planks, mmmhmm... believe whatever you need to believe dude.

Translation: "HA! A rational explination, you must be out of your mind! Clearly if we speculate wildly about completely unsubstnatial topics, THAT will lead us to the truth!"

I made a crop cycle before on my parent’s 20-acre hobby farm! It was only about 10 meter wide. I used a wood plank about 2 meters long. I wanted to see if I could do it so I tried that was so long ago brings back memories.

I think crop circles are made by people… maybe very rarely a freak of nature event like fungus, tornado, and weird electrical or magnetic so forth. If aliens are doing this their pretty fuck up beings I’ll tell you that! Oooh wait this are the same aliens with the human anal fetish right? Ya they must love messing with are heads and shoving large metal things up are orifices.

As for the evidence that crop circles leave a radiation signature, mutate the plants or don’t break the straw: Who took these measurements… could they have bias opinions? Were the measurements made in comparison to a control? Were any measurements made scientifically and shown to be valid statistically?

i'm not saying that crop circles cannot be reproduced by humans. i'm just simply pointing to the bending of the crops to a perfect 90 degree angle that humans could certainly NOT do.

all the hoaxers actually break the crops or the crops bend from the point at which they stick out of the ground-- a 'genuine' (for lack of a more appropriate word) crop circle's crops are ALL bent precisely at the same point throughout the circle. sometimes it's a couple inches above the ground, sometimes it's 6-10. you simply cannot do this with wooden planks. most crops break when you try to bend them, unless you heat them up first, which adds more time to a man-made hoax, and how are they heating up the crops?

also, the magnetic radiation left behind is simply a mystery. i already left two links on a previous post on this thread to this phenomenon.

my point is that at least 40% of the crop circles that are out there are totally unexplainable. and the bulk of the circles are happening over aquafins, which is interesting as well. there's also about 200 cases a year, and all over the world. and that's just the recorded cases.

zechaeriah,

Read my post above yours! I want to see some real science done not some bullshit that was made up by some people claiming to be scientists yet also make a killing off of doing crop circle tours and books. Have any of these people made seminars or published in scientific journals?

ok, two things here.

1 - i do not wish to do all the research for you. if you are posting on a thread in the PSEUDOSCIENCE forum, then expect it to be PSEUDOSCIENCE and don't force people to prove themselves SCIENTIFICALLY on every post.

2 - if you need a starting point for scientists interested in anything extraterrestrial-related, you could go to mufon.com or check this site out http://www.connect.net/mattvest/sciufo.htm

you could also do a search on google, for christ's sake.

Ok then we don't need to believe that ANY crop circles are created by (fucked up, perhaps high) aliens since no viable unbiased evidence can be produced. Yet a huge amount of evidence and proof has shown that crops circle are made by people.

On a personal note: If any proof did come up that some crop circles were made by aliens I would freak out and demand we shot down these sickos ASP because if they have the time to draw pictures in hay, mutilate cows, abduct and anal rape locals then who knows what else they are doing, but most likely it is equally fucked up and bad for us!

Also: Psuedoscience = fake science or lack of it.

you're yet another person who comes into the pseudoscience forum just to debunk. that's ok though, i am prepared for people like you.

first of all, i'm not gonna re-explain anything that has already been explained here. read the thread in it's entirety before you ask questions. i will, however, remind you of what issues are surrounding crop circles so that you have something to start your research with.

1 - magnetic radiation
2 - seeds picked from crops grow differently than seeds picked from crop outside of circle
3 - geometric perfection and complexity of design and production
4 - apparent 'interactivity' visitors and neighbors of the circles seem to have with it.
5 - stem nodes of plants exploded
6 - plants are bent at perfect right angle and all at the same height
7 - these things don't show up in known man-made circles.

All 1-7 is questionable. Give me hard core proof that any 1-7 is true.

what kind of hardcore proof are you looking for? i mean, aside from actually being there and running tests on the plants yourself, i don't see what pictures and articles written about them can't provide you.

like i said, maybe you need to actually do some research into it yourself. but if you're really that lazy, here is link to The BLT research team http://www.bltresearch.com/plantab.html

Oh so you mean something like this? http://www.rpi.edu/~sofkam/ISUNY/Journal/vol1_6.html
Or this one that show any rust from a standard steel object could be use to make a hand made crop circle “genuine” by Dr WC Levengood theory of 'Ion-Plasma Vortex which by the way is made by meteors not aliens.
http://www.circlemakers.org/fe3.html
As for the site you gave me: Could it also be possible that after the plants were planked down and allowed to continue growing they brake point would heal (effect 2) the resulting cut off of nutrition to the seeds would produce effects 4 and 5. Also he does not explain effect 3.

I'll believe when several unconnected researchers prove Levengood theory. You need a 3rd party to verify and repeat to prove your theory as a fact.
That or we could believe in cold fusion just because two guys said they made it happen. Or we could believe in already existing viable molecular electronics or ect ect ect…

well see, now we're getting somewhere with this debate, so thanks for taking it seriously enough to give a good argument.

my response:

you gotta remember that when someone goes to dispute something, if they're not diplomatic enough, they're gonna get either a cold shoulder or a very defensive response from whom their disputing. we see it all the time on sciforums. so as far as Sofka's personal opinion about Burke goes, i don't view that as a valid argument against the validity of Burke's claims, only blatant defamation, which is expected in a Journal of
The Inquiring Skeptics of Upper New York.

regarding Sofka's comment about Burke not having control groups, if you go to the BLT research team's (which Levengood, Burke's associate, is a part of - he's the 'L') website that i listed, you'll see control groups clearly used, they even have pictures of them. my guess is that Sofka was being belligerent and Burke didn't want to answer his questions anymore, but i'll make an assumption for your sake, Fetus, that at that time, let's say there were no control groups in the experiements. alas, Sofka's JISUNY article is from 1995, 8 years ago.

you raise a good point about the rust, however, you apparently didn't read the 'magnetic material in soil' (http://www.bltresearch.com/magnetic.html) section on the BLT research page:

Most often these magnetized spherical particles are found clustered around, or just outside, the perimeters of circular crop formations, suggesting that centrifugal force from a spinning vortex is distributing this material to the edges of the formations. We have seen cases, however, where the major deposition of this material is in the soil at the centers of the circles, the amounts then dropping off toward the perimeters. And we have instances where the magnetic material is deposited linearly, usually in increasing amounts as one samples out toward the perimeters of the circles, again suggesting a rotating force as the distribution agent.

so why is the vortex theory so far-off? i personally don't think the particles are from meteorites because the circles are too 'designed', where there is obviously some thought to them. for them to be naturally occuring, like Levengood is trying to say, is like saying the wind causes me to walk down the street.

if you take a look at the particles in the pictures, they are clearly embedded in the plant as well, meaning they coudln't have just fallen off a tool. the particles are also all balled up, which happens when metal is heated so much it liquifies. how do you explain all of this?

also, the formations aren't left unnoticed for weeks, or even days. they are found the very next day. farmers aren't just oblivious to their crops, they pay attention to them. and when formations occur around places like stonehenge, where they often occur and people are always around waiting for them, there isn't enough time for broken plants to heal. nor is that a normal part of plant healing processes. we're talking broken crops vs. bent crops, exploded nodes and elongated nodes that occur over a period no longer than a few hours.

I was referring to the possibility that any hoaxer could bring in a couple of handfuls of iron oxides powder from a steel works or off any metal grinder, and sprinkle the crop circle to make it "genuine" As for imbedding of iron powder: is that common, has it been counted statically? Also there is no mention if those iron granules were not in the soil to begin with they do not state any control test of amount per gram of soil per depth, or in proximity to crop circle. Also most importantly why was an isotope count not done on the the iron granule samples to prove definitively if they came for meteorites or earth mined steel?

Are plant samples taken immediately or after several days? From the reports don’t specify.

Although most crop circles are hoaxes, the original crop circles in australia are still unexplained and did actually correspond to star charts. I wish people wouldn't pull hoaxes in this nature because it trivializes the phenomena and turns it into a joke.
It reminds me of the first reported alien abduction. I'm sure we've all heard the story of betty and barney hill? A couple of simple folks who were driving along a road in an uninhabited area. They claimed they were taken aboard an alien spacecraft and subjected to experiments by small beings with large cat like eyes. Pretty standard stuff so far right? but remember they were the first and the most compelling part of their story was they had a star chart that contained stars that weren't discovered untill five years later and also their cars paint had blistered in such a way that could not be recreated by humans even to this day. Thats pretty convincing if you ask me but the ridiculous stories from copy cats have turned the betty and barney hill story into "just another load of crap" in most peoples eyes. Its a shame really.

PS: yeah , the movie "signs" was pathetic.

Any evidence can be pulled up on a subject the thing is that to prove the subject the evidence must be check and repeatable… this is were all Alien abduction evidence falls short.

If you can not find valid evidence that either proves or disprove your theory the next thing to do is speculate its likelihood: though this is not very accurate nor is it any long in the realm of science I’ll give it a shot: Lets see… what are the chances that some alien race would come to are planet to abduct people, probe these peoples anuses, mutilate cows, spook people into believe in there existence yet not just come down to the general public and final just announce once and for all they exist?

Fetus, that's just absurd. you're taking the stance on the whole issue of extraterrestrial life that most righteous scientists take, and that's "if i can't figure it out, then it hasn't happened". ETs could be organized and political just like us, they could have their reasons for not wanting to be public. you're doing just as much speculation now as most UFO believers, so just stop before you ruin the discussion, eh?

i'll have to write more later cuz you're raising a lot of debate over the circles that i've raised myself in doing the research. i'm just sick to my stomach right now and need to go lay down. i WILL be back though, you've been warned :eek:

that right I am! I'm say since there is now real viable evidence that speculation is all that left... still if these aliens have political beliefs like the ones I have shown they might have above then we (not them) are the superior life form!

I've seen a few which really stretch the man made theory. I mean over 700 circles in an elaborate design in a few hours???!?!?!:eek: I say there are many mechanisms active around us, which we know nothing about. I am tempted to believe men did the circles but it is still difficult.

I think it was on TLC that showed a crop circle making "Artist" gang of 3 make a very elaborate crop circle in under six hours! I was shown on stop motion camera on top of a crane with time in the up right hand corner.

Uhh, I think that humans made those crop circles. And your link didn't work...but you probably know by now.

¤•¤aLysSa¤•¤:m: ;)

alyssa, if you're referring to the link in my last post, it works fine.

and you are entitled to your opinion about the phenomenon, but the evidence of magnetic particles, exploded stem nodes and mysterious balls of light caught on video on numerous occasions is still perplexing.

I believe crop circles are once again only mans want to be in a bigger picture than we really are