We can read lots of threads in which we see a difference between US state of mind and the others'one. Europeans are also different from ME and from Asians who are different from Africans...
In fact everybody is different ! However there are some commun thoughts in each of these regions. That's better than a grey world in which everybody would think the same but it also creates some conflicts.

The purpose of this thread is to try to understand why we are so different : education, culture, history... each factor that could explain it. Quite hard maybe, but lets try :)
You can deal with your country (the best known...) and why you think the other are different (objectively...)

As I don't want to read "We are the best, you are morons, that's all !", I will suggest two rules :
- don't say who is the best (even if you are...) as we already have that kind of opinions in other frames and as it's not the aim here
- don't use words such as "moron", "f*cking",... (Jerreck, as you seems to know lots of things, your opinion could be interesting but try to follow that rule. I guess you can do it ! :rolleyes: )

Why are we different... because we are wonderfull (Europeans) and because you are all morons !!!
lol, hey it's just a joke ! I wanted to see if you were aware of the two rules.

Ok, Nico, be serious.
I can talk about France and why we are what we are...

At school, we learn our history, a part of the european one and some facts of the rest of the world. We are used to think about France such as an european country and we learned to be more tolerant when it deals with different cultures (but english one... don't know why ! lol). I don't know if it's the same in USA : I see them just learning their own history (including their wars in asia and in europe) but forgetting the rest of the world. History and geography are important in our school programs (before university...) and I think that it's different in USA.

About culture, well, I live in France, so...

Sociology now (used to be called "culture" too in french) : we are contradicting people, we like to be "border-law" (doing more than the law but without beeing catched) and we are a little bit proud ;). That's different from the US : you are proud of your country, of your power, of your money, of your gigantism... and we are proud of being French, of our culture (both meanings) and a new thing : we are proud to be european (however we are French at first) !

Our global view upon the world :
- USA : a 200 years old country that act as a teenager while we act as <<ancestors>> ("fast and furious" against "tolerant and take time to reflection").
- Canada : a mix of Quebec and English territory (independant) - a culture crossover.
- Rest of America : don't hear them in Europe... have a rich past and culture.
- Africa : too poor and to much political problems to have a "real" voice actualy, lack of education (in % of the population).
- ME : desert, petrol, big difference between richs and poors, a bomb because of Islamic and Jews fanatics. No distinction between religion and government in a main part of these countries.
- Asia : problems between India and Pakistan, China is becoming an important nation and all these countries have wonderfull cultures. The most complexe part of the world (all these countries are so different for their internal and international lives...)
- Australia : a far away and mainly desert country that is discrete (at least in Europe...) but that has a good eduction skills. Have an interesting culture.
- Russia : internal problems (mafia...) but I think that they will resolv it. Still be a powerfull country with a long history. "hard-lives" peoples that are not easily affraid (maybe because of their past)
- Current Europe (but England) : a community but not sheeps. Each one has its opinion.
- Future Europe (but current one) : still with their "ex-USSR" culture for a part of them. They will change in a few years... (young democracy)
- England : good education, not realy an "european" culture (maybe because of their island or their relationship with northern-america ?)
- Us (France) : I am...

Of course it's just a part of my own opinion and there are a few mistakes when I talk about foreign countries, so go on and explain...

(it's harder than I would have thought :( )

Strictly speaking, states of mind belong to individuals, not necessarily to ethnic groups.

In my mind, I would say that any intelligent, well informed individual, would agree that the US SS , in collusion with the UK SS, has, since the beginning of the last century, been consistently manipulating all parts of the world, undermining the power and wealth of its governments and its peoples, creating wars, splitting up regions, backing and promoting brutal dictators, selling arms to all sides, creating misinformation to promote conflicts and generally just being very nasty. Benefitting themselves politically and economically in the process, so that THEY can hang on to their POWER.

America is the world's greatest current Empire... don't believe me? There's hardly a place on earth where America doesn't have a military base and a tap on the local economy. This empire is based on Cosumerism. By their meddling, they keep most of the world in poverty, so that they can continue to buy their products at supercheap prices and sell them to their consumers for top dollar prices. (Too simplistic... I know, I know... but simple works!:( )

Most American citizens are shocked and angered when they hear stuff like this about their government, because their media is controlled by government sponsoring corporations and is therefore censored or watered down by default. But American people are just like people everywhere else in the world.

Most British people, though possibly better informed than the Americans, get very embarrassed by Britain's indiscretions and would rather not think about it. Most of them think that the British empire finished when they gave up India, when in fact the old British imperialists had been helping the new American ones get a foothold in Britain's old stomping grounds. But British people are just like people everywhere else in the world.

The people who live in countries that have been directly 'shitstirred' by the superpowers know about it all too well. They have borne the misery and torture, imposed, because of US and British strategy and so it's reasonable to assume that they may have more of a collective opinion as regards the US and UK and it wouldn't be favourable, as you might expect. But people in these places, are just like people everywhere else in the world.

History and geography are important in our school programs (before university...) and I think that it's different in USA. I can't comment on that one, but I learnt the history of five countries, and I know where every country is in the world and most of their capitals. I did two courses in history in high school, and one in geography.

and we are proud of being French, of our culture (both meanings) You're implying that we are proud for monetary and power reasons. True, but you're excluding the reason you listed for the French. That is even more so true is the United States. Americans are fiercely proud of being American and of their way of life. Moreso than any country in this world. Lots of people in Europe, while they are proud, wouldn't say it for fear of hurting someone's feelings. The difference between national pride in a European country (including France) and the United States is quite significant. Americans have a lot more national pride than most other countries. That is definitely one of the issues where Europeans have issues with the USA.

I would say that any intelligent, well informed individual, would agree that OK by your definition I'm not intelligent and not well informed.

Too simplistic... You're right. Far too simplistic and far from the truth.

They have borne the misery and torture I'm from one of those "shitstirred" countries and what you're saying is not true. I've never been tortured except once, and that wasn't by the government or the American military.


Now, MY take on the world, and keep in mind, this is MY opinion:

- United States, greatest superpower, a little too liberal, a model for other countries to follow as it is proven Americans are the most successful in the world several times over. The United States have cornered just about every industry in the world and has interests in all of them. One of the richest nations, even our poor people are richer than the rich people of some countries.

- Canada, lack of a self identify, way to liberal. Canadians need to get their ass in gear and reform their government. They are being lead by the nose by the Quebec people, and that should not be tolerated because Quebec speaks for itself. It is the least productive of all provinces and require billions of federal aid every year.

- Britain, ally, but the people should really vote for Ian Duncan Smith :p Overall nice people, but they should learn to speak English. :p

- Europe, trying to be the counter-balance to the United States and having issues with it. They can't agree on anything. They want to form a union but the member countries want to have their sovereignty as well. Doesn't work. Way too liberal, loves to steal from the rich to give to those that don't want to work, too politically correct, too passive, too "lets take another 10 years to decide on this issue," too weak militarily speaking, always in need of the United States to fix their problems, and if we do, we are the evils of the world, always wants to judge the world (with all these internaional courts popping up in Europe), thinks they are morally superior to everyone else, blah. Nice place for a vacation but I'd hate to live there.


Major differences (this is a *generalization*):

- Europeans love high taxes, Americans do not.
- Europeans love welfare, Americans do not go quite as far.
- Europeans are pacifists and refuse to acknowledge the need for a military, Americans do not.
- Europeans love big governments, Americans do not.
- Europeans care more for other countries' people than for their own. America does not.
- Europeans are scared of guns, Americans are not.

I'm sure there are more, but I have a headache.

Europeans are pacifists and refuse to acknowledge the need for a military, Americans do not.
This is not entirely true, especially given European history. With respect to armies, modern day European forces, although not a match for the US, are still quite up to date (especially since we use US gear and a few home grown planes) with at least a reasonable potential to defend borderlines.

That is true. But then, every country has some form of military. It is just that the European military forces are so *small* and frequently need American forces to maintain peace in Europe.

Can't argue you with you there... but in the two big ones, this was against an (more or less single) European enemy, illustrating that pacifism was not an issue nor was its military seriously underpowered.

Which really is the problem with present Europe. Only half a century ago the whole place was in ruines. One half was cut off by the USSR, and the other half was trying to get to terms with eachother after two devastating wars. Give it a few more decades, and hopefully it will become a more cohesive union.

It's not fair to lump entire Europe together as "Europeans".

There are countries that want to do the right thing (UK), and there are the axis of weasels (France, Germany, and Russia)

There are countries that want to do the right thing (UK), and there are the axis of weasels (France, Germany, and Russia)
Please reread first post of this thread.

Originally posted by mouse
Please reread first post of this thread.

Why don't you reread the first sentence of my post.

Why don't you reread the first sentence of my post.
Yes, European countries differ from eachother quite a bit. To put them all under the label "Europe" really does make you see past those otherwise interesting differences, but to pick out each and every country and compare them to the rest of the world is a task i'd rather leave to someone else. A division by the axis of weasels is hardly... well... constructive.

Interestingly though, i do wonder if we are using Europe in politicals terms (i.e. excluding the Russian Federation more or less and with a focus on the EU countries) or in geographical terms (including all land west of the Ural mountain range).

Originally posted by mouse
A division by the axis of weasels is hardly... well... constructive.


There is no way you can divide up Europe into anything.

It's extremely difficult to respond to this kind of thread without using some kind of stereotype or generalization.

Please, I do not wish to insult my British breathern by calling them Europeans. Technically you are, but with respect to my post, you are not. :)

I'm referring to mainly the western Europe.

Just to contradict myself and do my bit of the comparison
(caution: this is, by necessity, also a strong generalization):

My country, the Netherlands, being densily populated, has probably introduced some cultural differences:
- We value privacy. Extremely. This is sometimes interpreted by other nations as bad hospitality. Not inviting one for dinner or opening our life for someone we just met, is not something personal. We just want to have our sheltered lives.
- We massively flee the country whenever we can. Ironically, we all tend to end up at the same Spanish coastal line.
- We have an obsessive nature to utilize and have some form of decision process of every square meter. If you want a unscheduled tree in front of your house, you'd better be prepared to do the paperwork.
- We love to protest. Whether it is against a war or in favor of the rights for the common house flea, it doesn't matter. Perhaps, we just want to be heard in the crowd.

We are also quite a small country, which leads to all kinds of complexes:
- We all dress up funny and hit the streets if our national team of any sport gets some medal on some international tournament, just to make a point that we do make a difference every now and then. However insignificant.
- Having only about 20 million people speaking Dutch worldwide, practically all of us know at least one and usually two foreign languages quite well. Contradictory, we spent hours in debate how and whether we should protect our national language.
- We drain(ed) peaces of sea and lakes just to make more room. As a result, many of us live below sea level which probably also leaves its mark in the national psyche in one way or another.

We also have some history, of which we usually highlight the golden age in which our science, arts and cultural life was ranked among the highest. We usually neglect to tell about the extensive slave trading, the exploitation and loss of Indonesia and other more recent defeats. This is typically ironic, as we do tend to critize almost every other nation with great passion.

In foreign proverbs, the Dutch usually come out as a greedy bunch. Perhaps this is due to our past as a trader's nation. These days, we are more of a service provider and a major argicultural export. Hopefully this would change foreign attitudes a bit in time. ;)

(edit: some typos)

Scotland is a small nation and a nation which has never been at peace with itself since the dawn of it's creation. Throughout the centuries Scotland was perpetually at war with England and that legacy still permeates our mindset even today. We are a modest race but less insular than our southern cousins because we welcome european integration with a passion. Scotland has given the world much through the sciences, television, penicillin, telephone,pneumatic tyre,thermos flask, anaesthesia, steam engine,steam hammer,colour photo,vacuum,antiseptics,radar,etc. We are a people capable of great kindnesses but also random acts of wanton violence. We would never betray a friend, we always side with the underdog, perhaps because we always were and always will be. Optimism was never our strong point but I am optimistic that we shall always be pessimistic.

Originally posted by ben nevis
Scotland has given the world much through the sciences, television, penicillin, telephone,pneumatic tyre,thermos flask, anaesthesia, steam engine,steam hammer,colour photo,vacuum,antiseptics,radar,etc. Excuse me?

You read correctly jerrek. A small wager perhaps?

television: (American) Philo Farnsworth got the idea that an electron beam could scan a picture back and forth. A Russian immigrant in the United States got the idea at roughly the same time, and there were big court cases between the two who actually had the patent rights to a television.

penicillin: (Scottish) Chemist Fleming discovered mold has medicinal properties.

telephone: (American) Alexander Graham Bell built the first working telephone.

pneumatic tire: (Scottish) Some guy in Scotland invented it, for a bicycle.

thermos flask: (Scottish) Dewar I think... He worked with temperatures if I remember correctly.

anaesthesia: (Unknown) Anaesthesia was used in Egypt more than 3,000 years ago. And there are also records of its use in China and India.

steam engine: (British) Thomas Savery invented the steam engine, if I recall correctly. He was English, not Scottish.

steam hammer: (Scottish) I don't remember who invented it.

color photo: (American) Some American (Hill I think) published a book on how to take color pictures. This was a decade before Maxwell.

vacuum: I don't know what you're referring to.

antiseptics: (Unknown) Once again, Egyptians used antiseptics a long time ago. There are numerous references throughout history of antiseptics.

radar: (Scottish) I'll give you that. Maxwell was one of the most brilliant people that ever lived. :)

Correct me If I'm wrong, but wasn't A.G.Bell Scottish? And I think that Watson-Watt is credited with the invention of radar although it's been said that Tesla was the one that first described its concept.

He was born in Scotland yes, but he moved to the U.S. and became American and then invented the telephone.

Bell patented his telephone in 1876 and became an American citizen in 1882.

Scottish men invented skirts.

Scotts have the highland games those are pretty kewl.

Most Americans, up until the past couple of decades, are the descendants of people who didn't like life in Europe so they left. Most Europeans are the descendants of people who liked life in Europe so they stayed.

Americans on the average are less respectful of authority, less law-abiding, regard the legal system as a puzzle to conquer and exploit rather than a resource to make life comfortable and predictable.

Americans have a short history and most of us have little interest in what history there is; even less in the history of other countries. If ever there were a people who seem hell-bent on illustrating the proverb, "Those who don't learn from history are doomed to repeat it," it is America.

America is built on land that was stolen from its earlier inhabitants so recently, that even the typical amnesiac American has difficulty putting that disgraceful bit of history out of his mind. As a result we have a hopeless impairment to understanding ethnic conflicts based on centuries or millennia of conflict, such as Israel/Palestine or China/Tibet.

Since the Indians of North America had neither entered the resource-intensive Bronze Age nor reproduced themselves into a large resource-hungry population, by European standards the land we took from them was virgin and Americans did not have to work very hard to create a prosperous homeland. (The sacrifices made by black Americans to bring about that prosperity will be mentioned shortly.) As a result we cannot comprehend, in our hearts, how difficult life is in places like Bangla Desh or even post-Perestroika Warsaw. Our advice to everyone with an economic problem is to "stop whining and go get a job."

America is one of only two countries in the entire hemisphere that could not figure out a way to abolish slavery by peaceful means. (The other is Haiti.) It has been argued that the worst legacy of the Civil War was the focusing of all the post-war hatred and anger (on both sides of the Mason-Dixon Line) on our black citizens, as if they were the reason the bloodiest war in our history was fought, and fought entirely on our own soil. (History, which of course Americans don't study, tells us that is absolutely false. Lincoln didn't even raise abolition as an issue until halfway through the war.) One hundred-forty years later, our population is conspicuous for its distinct colors and the cultural problems that come with them, as opposed to, say, Brazil or Cuba, where everyone is a slightly different shade of brown. I don't know how that bears on our difference from Europe, but the fact that we are that different from our own neighbors has got to be significant.

America created rock and roll. I don't where Europeans place that in the grand scheme of things, but many of us think it is the most important invention in the entire history of civilization.

Originally posted by Fraggle Rocker
Americans have a short history and most of us have little interest in what history there is; even less in the history of other countries. If ever there were a people who seem hell-bent on illustrating the proverb, "Those who don't learn from history are doomed to repeat it," it is America.

America is built on land that was stolen from its earlier inhabitants so recently, that even the typical amnesiac American has difficulty putting that disgraceful bit of history out of his mind. As a result we have a hopeless impairment to understanding ethnic conflicts based on centuries or millennia of conflict, such as Israel/Palestine or China/Tibet.

Europeans did the same thing to the Indians. They were the first to start killing them. Conquering the Incas and Aztecs wasn't done that nicely. They were the ones that started all this hatred inbetween americas and inidians.

Originally posted by Fraggle Rocker
Since the Indians of North America had neither entered the resource-intensive Bronze Age nor reproduced themselves into a large resource-hungry population, by European standards the land we took from them was virgin and Americans did not have to work very hard to create a prosperous homeland. (The sacrifices made by black Americans to bring about that prosperity will be mentioned shortly.) As a result we cannot comprehend, in our hearts, how difficult life is in places like Bangla Desh or even post-Perestroika Warsaw. Our advice to everyone with an economic problem is to "stop whining and go get a job."

Actually we had it easy because we did not stay a colony that long. We had good leadership that started up industry as soon as possible. Our revolution wasn't as bloody and we didn't have any socialist leaders running our country into the ground.

Originally posted by Fraggle Rocker
America is one of only two countries in the entire hemisphere that could not figure out a way to abolish slavery by peaceful means. (The other is Haiti.) It has been argued that the worst legacy of the Civil War was the focusing of all the post-war hatred and anger (on both sides of the Mason-Dixon Line) on our black citizens, as if they were the reason the bloodiest war in our history was fought, and fought entirely on our own soil. (History, which of course Americans don't study, tells us that is absolutely false. Lincoln didn't even raise abolition as an issue until halfway through the war.) One hundred-forty years later, our population is conspicuous for its distinct colors and the cultural problems that come with them, as opposed to, say, Brazil or Cuba, where everyone is a slightly different shade of brown. I don't know how that bears on our difference from Europe, but the fact that we are that different from our own neighbors has got to be significant.

Europeans inslaved people but they called it "the whitemans burden" it ended bloody too. If Lincholn did bring up slavery in the begging he would have lost the border states and would have lost the war entirly.

Originally posted by Jerrek
He was born in Scotland yes, but he moved to the U.S. and became American and then invented the telephone.

If I'm not mistaken, he was a professor at Boston University. He eventually moved to Brantford, Ontario, where he applied for the patent for the telephone (and was granted it) Canadian, American, Scottish........ perhaps all three ?

Originally posted by Jerrek

- United States, greatest superpower, a little too liberal,


Too Liberal! I shudder to think of your idea of a conservative government.

Originally posted by Jerrek

- Canada, lack of a self identify, way to liberal. Canadians need to get their ass in gear and reform their government. They are being lead by the nose by the Quebec people, and that should not be tolerated because Quebec speaks for itself. It is the least productive of all provinces and require billions of federal aid every year.


I think you need to read a little more on Canadian Politics. I would really be interested in reading the source of your information regarding Quebec's lack of productivity.

http://www.statcan.ca/Daily/English/010824/d010824a.htm

Originally posted by Carmagio
Too Liberal! I shudder to think of your idea of a conservative government.

I bet you he wants it more like these right wing extrmist wanted the US.

http://www.thisnation.com/media/photos/signingdec.jpg

:D