This link is to an article claiming that the Chinese sailed around the world and reached America 70 years before Columbus. Everybody seems to know that Columbus already had maps, and the source of the maps nows seems to be the biggest debate. The Piri Reis map that Charles Hapgood traced to a time when the Antarctic was free of ice thousands of years ago was not a complete map of the world. This article claims evidence showing the entire globe had been mapped.

Current public opinion on the topic is what makes this article most interesting, because only 6% considered there was not enough evidence to make a serious claim on a NBC poll. Another 44% said the issue isn't worth debating, since so many people came to the Americas before Columbus. What makes this interesting is that an overwhelming majority (91%) believe that the claim that Columbus discovered America is hoogie poogie while Columbus Day remains a national holiday!

The credibility of the history still taught in schools is at rock bottom, yet it is still publicly celebrated. The breach in credibility says more than evidence that the Chinese were in America before Columbus.

http://www.msnbc.com/news/721582.asp

What do you think of claims that Chinese sailors reached America before Columbus?

* 2435 responses

The claims should be given a serious hearing.
47%

There's not enough evidence to make a serious claim.
6%

The issue isn't worth debating, since so many people came to the Americas before Columbus.
44%

None of the above.
3%


So what are your thoughts about this? :cool:

Vikings reached America ~520 years before Columbus
it's a fact. the Viking leader was called Leijf Ericson(sp)

and probably the ancient Egyptians reached SA ~unknown but ~ 5000 bc +-4000y.??????really noone knows when.

Yes, I know that too. The article is about the Chinese sailors. I agree that Ancient Egyptians reached the Americas far before anyone else.

In fact, the first Native Indians are originally coming from the direction of Egypt. That is not the issue here. It are the Chinese.

Be nice, play along...:)

sorry, have no info on Chinese
and I don't think tht it really matters, right:confused:

Right...:)

Well if the vikings got here before columbus, than others probably did too.:D

Native Americans scooted on over from far north-east Asia.

Leif Ericson found and settled L'Ans Aux Meadows or whatever in Canada using older maps and tales told by older sailos. People got there before him.

I saw, long ago, this tv show that pointed out that ancient chinese anchors had been found off the coast of California. Would that be proof? Yup, if its true.:p

all native Americans are from Asia (China) they walked across the ice bridge looking for food and slowly worked their way all the way down to South America

Originally posted by justagirl
all native Americans are from Asia (China) they walked across the ice bridge looking for food and slowly worked their way all the way down to South America

tht has already proven to be untrue. there are pictures/ sculptures of Africans in SA. Many myths are the same. they had knowledge of white and beared men. they have a story about Moses(a different name but story's the same) and the flood. Ancient Egyptian boats have proven to be able to swim over atlantic (expedition of Kon-Tiki). pyramids. and oth.

Avatar, you are right. It is told that 'Moses' who got the tablets with the Ten Commandments lost these and the Natives in the Americas do have one of them. Taken with them when they came from Egypt long, long ago. It is from that direction, humans started to scatter all over the world and settled.

The Ten Commandments are written on two tablets and one of them is kept and saved by the Indians, the Natives of the Americas, since the time they came and settled there...

Avatar, you are right. It is told that 'Moses' who got the tablets with the Ten Commandments lost these and the Natives in the Americas do have one of them

:eek: Have smth more on this. maybe a link or smth?
quite interesting, but probably it is made up

all native Americans are from Asia (China) they walked across the ice bridge looking for food and slowly worked their way all the way down to South America
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tht has already proven to be untrue. there are pictures/ sculptures of Africans in SA. Many myths are the same. they had knowledge of white and beared men. they have a story about Moses(a different name but story's the same) and the flood. Ancient Egyptian boats have proven to be able to swim over atlantic (expedition of Kon-Tiki). pyramids. and oth.

I guess we should talk specific tribes as none of the tribes in North America accept your theroy or belief.

www.nativeamerica.com

LONG BEFORE the white man set foot on American soil, the American Indians, or rather the Native Americans, had been living in America. When the Europeans came here, there were probably about 10 million Indians populating America north of present-day Mexico. And they had been living in America for quite some time. It is believed that the first Native Americans arrived during the last ice-age, approximately 20,000 - 30,000 years ago through a land-bridge across the Bering Sound, from northeastern Siberia into Alaska. The oldest documented Indian cultures in North America are Sandia (15000 BC), Clovis (12000 BC) and Folsom (8000 BC)

Also I can say the Cherokee nation, Navajo nation, and Peyote Church of God have no knowledge of your so called man named moses with the ten commandants.

He had a different name for indians. Christians named him Noas (how could I mix it with moses!!!:eek: sorry) And I know the legend and will try to find it, but the theory about indians coming only over the Bering pass is dated and many scientists now agree tht tht was not the only path inhabitants of Americas took.

One of the facts is tht There have been found equally ancient human remains in SA among the Andes(sp), which couldn't have happened if people were migrating from North to South.
the Bering-Only theory is dated and not likable.
Cheers!

I know of many flood stories and creation myths from North America Native Americans..sense my last post I have been looking into what you are saying and so far it appears the Inca might be the tribe you are talking about ..Something about a guy from Norway sailed in boat like that time and proved sailing was possible..

one myth......



the Great Flood


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In ancient times, there were so many people in the land that they lived everywhere. Soon hunting became bad and food scarce, so that the people quarrelled over hunting territories.

Even in those days, the people were skilled in making fine canoes and paddles from cedars, and clothing and baskets from their bark. In dreams their wise old men could see the future, and there came a time when they all had similar bad dreams that kept coming to them over and over again. The dreams warned of a great flood. This troubled the wise men who told each other about their dreams. They found that they all had dreamed that rain fell for such a long time, or that the river rose, causing a great flood so that all of the people were drowned. They were much afraid and called a council to hear their dreams and decide what should be done. One said that they should build a great raft by tying many canoes together. Some of the people agreed, but others laughed at the old men and their dreams.

The people who believed in the dreams worked hard building the raft. It took many moons of hard work, lashing huge cedar log canoes together with strong ropes of cedar bark. When it was completed, they tied the raft with a great rope of cedar bark to the top of Mount Cowichan by passing one end of the rope through the centre of a huge stone which can still be seen there.

During the time the people were working on the raft, those who did not believe in the dreams were idle and still laughed, but they did admire the fine, solid raft when it was at last finished and floated in Cowichan Bay.

Soon after the raft was ready, huge raindrops started falling, rivers overflowed, and the valleys were flooded. Although people climbed Mount Cowichan to avoid the great flood, it too was soon under water. But those who had believed the dreams took food to the raft and they and their families climbed into it as the waters rose. They lived on the raft many days and could see nothing but water. Even the mountain tops had disappeared beneath the flood. The people became much afraid when their canoes began to flood and they prayed for help. Nothing happened for a long time; then the rain stopped.

The waters began to go down after a time, and finally the raft was grounded on top of Mount Cowichan. The huge stone anchor and heavy rope had held it safe. As the water gradually sank lower and lower, the people could see their lands, but their homes had all been swept away. The valleys and forests had been destroyed. The people went back to their old land and started to rebuild their homes.

After a long time the number of people increased, until once again the land was filled and the people started to quarrel again. This time they separated into tribes and clans, all going to different places. The storytellers say this is how people spread all over the earth.

Genesis According to the Miao People

Translated by Edgar A. Truax*

Institute for Creation Research, PO Box 2667, El Cajon, CA 92021
Voice: (619) 448-0900 FAX: (619) 448-3469

"Vital Articles on Science/Creation" April 1991
Copyright © 1991 All Rights Reserved



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Introductory Note:
The Miao tribes, or as it is spelled in most encyclopedias "Miautso," at one time occupied most of inland China south of the Yangtze River, but have been gradually driven into the mountains of the southwest by the better-armed and better-organized Chinese. The Miao of our section claim to have been driven out of Kiangsi Province.

The Miao traditions are very precise, as compared with those of many primitive peoples, because they are not only handed down in metrical form, but, also, they are in couplets, in which the same or similar meaning is expressed in different wording, so that the second sentence acts as a definition of the first, where it might otherwise not be clear. This is very much like one form of Hebrew poetry - an example of which is found in Psalm 21:1,2.

The Translation

The Creation


On the day God created the heavens and earth.
On that day He opened the gateway of light.
In the earth then He made heaps of earth and of stone.
In the sky He made bodies, the sun and the moon.
In the earth He created the hawk and the kite.
In the water created the lobster and fish.
In the wilderness made He the tiger and bear,
Made verdure to cover the mountains,
Made forest extend with the ranges,
Made the light green cane,
Made the rank bamboo.
Man


On the earth He created a man from the dirt.
Of the man thus created, a woman He formed.
Then the Patriarch Dirt made a balance of stones.
Estimated the weight of the earth to the bottom.<!#[p.9]> (Note 1)<!#[p.255]>
Calculated the bulk of the heavenly bodies.
And pondered the ways of the Deity, God.
The Patriarch Dirt begat Patriarch Se-teh.
The Patriarch Se-Teh begat a son Lusu.
And Lusu had Gehlo and he begat Lama.
The Patriarch Lama begat the man Nuah.
His wife was the Matriarch Gaw Bo-lu-en.
Their sons were Lo Han, Lo Shen and Jah-hu. <!#[p.9]>(Note 2)<!#[p.255]>
So the earth began filling with tribes and with families.
Creation was shared by the clans and the peoples.
The World Wicked


These did not God's will nor returned His affection.
But fought with each other defying the Godhead.
Their leaders shook fists in the face of the Mighty
Then the earth was convulsed to the depth of three strata.
Rending the air to the uttermost heaven.
God's anger arose till His Being was changed;
His wrath flaring up filled His eyes and His face.
Until He must come and demolish humanity.
Come and destroy a whole world full of people.
The Flood


So it poured forty days in sheets and in torrents.
Then fifty-five days of misting and drizzle.
The waters surmounted the mountains and ranges.
The deluge ascending leapt valley and hollow.
An earth with no earth upon which to take refuge!
A world with no foothold where one might subsist!
The people were baffled, impotent and ruined,
Despairing, horror stricken, diminished and finished.
But the Patriarch Nuah was righteous.
The Matriarch Gaw Bo-lu-en upright.
Built a boat very wide.
Made a ship very vast.
Their household entire got aboard and were floated,
The family complete rode the deluge in safety.
The animals with him were female and male.
The birds went along and were mated in pairs.
When the time was fulfilled, God commanded the waters.
The day had arrived, the flood waters receded.
Then Nuah liberated a dove from their refuge,
Sent a bird to go forth and bring again tidings.
The flood had gone down into lake and to ocean;
The mud was confined to the pools and the hollows.
There was land once again where a man might reside;
There was a place in the earth now to rear habitations.
Buffalo then were brought, an oblation to God,
Fatter cattle became sacrifice to the Mighty.
The Divine One then gave them His blessing;
Their God then bestowed His good graces.
Babel


Lo-han then begat Cusah and Mesay.<!#[p.9]> (Note 3)<!#[p.255]>
Lo-shan begat Elan and Nga-shur.
Their offspring begotten became tribes and peoples;
Their descendants established encampments and cities.
Their singing was all with the same tunes and music;
Their speaking was all with the same words and language.
Then they said let us build us a very big city;
Let us raise unto heaven a very high tower.
This was wrong, but they reached this decision;
Not right, but they rashly persisted.
God struck at them then, changed their language and accent.
Descending in wrath, He confused tones and voices.
One's speech to the others who hear him has no meaning;
He's speaking in words, but they can't understand him.
So the city they builded was never completed;
The tower they wrought has to stand thus unfinished.
In despair then they separate under all heaven,
They part from each other the globe to encircle.<!#[p.9]> (Note 4)<!#[p.255]>
They arrive at six corners and speak the six languages.
Miao Genealogy


The Patriarch Jahphu got the center of nations.<!#[p.9]> (Note 5)<!#[p.255]>
The son he begat was the Patriarch Go-men.
Who took him a wife called the Matriarch Go-yong.
Their grandson and his wife both took the name Tutan.
Their descendants are given in order as follows:
Patriarch Gawndan Mew-wan,
Matriarch Cawdan Mew-jew;
Patriarch Jenku Dawvu, Matriarch Jeneo Boje;
Patriarch Gangen Newang (wife not given);
Patriarch Seageweng, Matriarch Maw gueh.
Their children, eleven in number, was each the head of a family.
Five branches became the Miao nation.
Six families joined with the Chinese.
The story continues through many more pages, telling of the separation of the Chinese and Miao; their travels and demon worship, their division into families.

The Miao at funerals and weddings recite the ancestry of the principal or principals clear back to Adam. Their frequent use of it may account for its accuracy.


Notes:

[1] The Miao say that on the bottom of the bottom of the earth is a land of dwarfs.
[2] Note the similarity of some of these names to those in the Bible account: Seth, Lamech, Noah, Ham, Shem, and Japheth.
[3] Note the similarity:
Ham's descendants: Bible Cush, Mizram; Miao Cusah, Mesay
Shem's descendants: Bible Elam, Asshur; Miao Elan, Nga shur
[4] The literal translation here is: "They parted went live encircle world ball." The Miao know nothing of the world being round, so this passage seems to indicate the perfect knowledge of the original man - Devolution instead of Evolution.
[5] From this we see that they trace their ancestry from Japheth and Gomer, which makes them of the Indo-European stock.
The Miao did not originally worship idols, but learned this from the Chinese after having been subdued by them. This poem, which is learned by heart and transmitted from generation to generation, is translated and brought to you with the hope that you will be inspired to PRAY MUCH for these people. They evidently once knew the true God. Pray that they may learn to know Him as Father, and Jesus, whom He has sent to be the Way back to Him.


Editor's Comments:
This remarkable account of creation and the flood apparently has been handed down generation after generation from the ancestors of the Miao tribespeople in the mountains of southwest China, for they possessed this legend before they met missionaries. It was translated into English by a missionary, Ernest Truax, who spent most of his life working for the Lord among these people. He sent me the story many years ago, before Acts & Facts began publication. Recently, Mr. James Honeyman also acquired a copy and sent it to me. He also was able to find the address of Mrs. Ellen Truax, widow of the missionary, and make contact with her.

Mrs. Truax has now copyrighted the translation and has graciously given us permission to publish it as an "Impact" article, so that Christians everywhere could become aware of this amazing record, and also could pray for the Miao people as Mr. Truax desired.

Although many legends of creation and the flood have been preserved, only a few have included the story of Babel and the post-flood dispersion. This is surely one of the most Bible-like of all these traditions, and bears significant independent testimony to the truth of the record in Genesis. Even though we have been unable so far to locate anyone who can confirm the authenticity of the Miao tradition or the accuracy of its translation, it clearly has the ring of truth about it and we can believe it is authentic until someone can prove otherwise. Its differences from the Biblical account clearly show its source was not directly from the Bible or early Christian missionaries (if any), but its similarities are so striking as to imply that it came from the same original source - namely, the events themselves!




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from http://www.icr.org/pubs/imp/imp-214.htm

smiles yeah I have read that one...each tribe pretty much has their own..here is two I have dug up
" There was total darkness for a great time over the whole of the earth; the Choctaw doctors or mystery-men looked out for daylight for a long time, until at last they despaired of ever seeing it, and the whole nation was very unhappy. At last a light was discovered in the North, and there was great rejoicing, until it was found to be great mountains of water rolling on, which destroyed them all, except a few families who had expected it and built a great raft, on which they were saved"


"Choctaw" Peter Pinchlin



A man named Tapi lived a long time ago. Tapi was a very pious man. The creator told Tapi to build a boat that he would live in. He was told that he should take his wife, a pair of every animal that was alive into this boat. Naturally everyone thought he was crazy. Then the rain started and the flood came. The men and animals tried to climb the mountains but the mountains became flooded as well. Finally the rain ended. Tapi decided that the water had dried up when he let a dove loose that did not return.

Aztec

I have a huge interest in this as my grandmother was Cherokee and I am a member of the Peyote Church of God smiles

Flood Traditions:

Memories of the great Flood that once covered the earth are retained in many cultures around the world. While details vary and the story is typically adapted to the local environment, they provide a remarkable anthropological testimony to the Genesis Flood. Apparently as humanity spread across the face of the earth after Babel, they carried the flood tradition with them. The following are a list of flood traditions, and a statistical breakdown of those traditions, taken from the following source:
Morris, John D. & Tim F. LaHaye, The Ark on Ararat (New York: Thomas Nelson Inc., 1976), pp. 233-237.

Note to skeptics who, to maintain the evolutionary faith and deny the Flood, have dismissed these stories as having been started by unknown missionaries:
1. Dozens of the records, such as both Gilgamesh records of the Flood, and several dozen varieties recorded by the Greeks, were recorded prior to the founding of Christianity.
2. Characteristically absent are any mention of Jesus or anything else in the New Testament or Old Testament events after Babel (when the common heritage of mankind was ended). What sort of missionary only tells stories about Noah's Flood and then moves on without mentioning Jesus?? Yet this is what we should expect if the records are indigenous.

Zecharia Sitchin books,
12th planet
genesis revisited
the stairway to heaven
the wars of gods and men
the lost realms
when time began the cosmic code
these books are greatif you can keep an open mind. The one in old type deals with south america, and those statues of african male heads that stand thirteen feet tall.:D These books also talk about similiar histories from around the world.

Originally posted by justagirl
smiles yeah I have read that one...each tribe pretty much has their own..
so why to believe the Bering-Only theory. why is it so important for you for it to be the only truth?:confused:
Cheers!

that last one I haven't seen before..but I spent a summer in Windrock learning all I could and I could make many post on the teachings of the great spirit...and have some in my pc when I showed Native American beleif's side by side and the Bible and how they could mean the same even though the words were different..if you have an interest I will show some of them to you

sure. ancient history and civilizations is my passion and hobby.
bring it on:)

http://images.amazon.com/images/P/0380758903.01.LZZZZZZZ.jpg

Originally posted by justagirl
all native Americans are from Asia (China) they walked across the ice bridge looking for food and slowly worked their way all the way down to South America
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tht has already proven to be untrue. there are pictures/ sculptures of Africans in SA. Many myths are the same. they had knowledge of white and beared men. they have a story about Moses(a different name but story's the same) and the flood. Ancient Egyptian boats have proven to be able to swim over atlantic (expedition of Kon-Tiki). pyramids. and oth.

because the land bridge hasn't been proved wrong...and the Kno_tiki_ so far all I can find on it is a man proved it could have been sailed and still hasn;t been proven...but I do want to learn more

American Indian Commandments


Sacred Instructions Given By The Creator To Native People At The Time Of Creation





Treat the Earth and all that dwell thereon with respect.



Remain close to the Great Spirit.



Show great respect for your fellow beings.



Work together for the benefit of all Mankind.



Give assistance and kindness wherever needed.



Do what you know to be right.



Look after the well being of mind and body.



Dedicate a share of your efforts to the greater good.



Be truthful and honest at all times.



Take full responsibility for your actions.

a poem by Crazy Horse 2/26/2002
Upon suffering beyond suffering, the Red Nation shall rise again and
it shall be a blessing for a sick world. A world filled with broken

promises, selfishness and separations. A World longing for light again.

I see a time long after the skies have grown dark and dirty and the

water has become bad smelling. I see a time of seven generations when

all the colors of mankind will gather under the Sacred Tree of Life and

one whole earth will become one circle again.

In that day, there will be those among the Lakota who will carry the

knowledge and understanding of unity among all living things and the

young white ones will come to those of my People and ask for this wisdom.

I salute the light within your eyes where the whole universe dwells.

For when you are at that center within you and I am at that place within

me, we shall be One."

Tashunkewitko Oglala AKA Crazy Horse .Please note his use of the words Tree of life.


He spent much time in prayer and solitude. Just what happened in these days of his fasting in the wilderness and upon the crown of bald buttes, no one will ever know; for these things may only be known when one has lived through the battles of life to an honored old age


His side of the story on Custers last stand..

"A very great vision is needed and the man who has it must follow it as the eagle seeks the deepest blue of the sky. I was hostile to the white man...we preferred hunting to a life of idleness on our reservations. At times we did not get enough to eat and we were not allowed to hunt. All we wanted was peace and to be left alone. Soldiers came and destroyed our villages. Then Long Hair (Custer) came...They say we massacred him, but he would have done the same to us. Our first impulse was to escape but we were so hemmed in we had to fight."

Tashunkewitko Oglala AKA Crazy horse

The light of the Sun enlightens the entire Universe; and as the flames of the Sun come to us in the morning, so comes the goodness of Wakantanka (Wakan --Holy, Tanka -- Great), by which all creatures are enlightened. It is because of this that the four-leggeds and the wingeds always rejoice at the coming of the light. We can all see in the day, and this seeing is sacred, for it represents the sight of that real world which we may have only through the eye of the heart. When you wear this Sacred Sign in the Dance, you should remember that you are bringing Light into the Universe, and if you concentrate on these meanings, you will gain great benefit."

Black Elk Oglala Sioux


" You are the light of the world. A city on a hill cannot be hidden. Neither do people light a lamp and put it under a bowl. Instead they put it on it's stand, and it gives light to everyone in the house. In this same way, let your light shine before men, that they may see your good deeds and praise your Father in heaven."


Jesus


"Grandfather, Great Spirit, once more behold me on earth and lean to hear my feeble voice. You lived first, and you are older than all , older than all prayer. All things belong to you -- the two-legged, the four-legged, the wings of the air,

and all green things that live.


You have set the powers of the four quarters of the earth to cross each other. You have made me cross the good road and road of difficulties, and where they cross, the place is holy. Day in, day out, forevermore, you are the life of things.


Hey! Lean to hear my feeble voice.

At the center of the sacred hoop

You have said that I should make the tree to bloom.


With tears running, O Great Spirit, my Grandfather,

With running eyes I must say

The tree has never bloomed


Here I stand, and the tree is withered.

Again, I recall the great vision you gave me.



It may be that some little root of the sacred tree still lives.

Nourish it then

That it may leaf

And bloom

And fill with singing birds!


Hear me, that the people may once again

Find the good road

And the shielding tree".


Black Elk


The native americans had no Bible to use as a guide. They had no written history to teach them right and wrong. They relied on prayer to guide them through their life. They relied on God for all things. They taught God created the heavens and the earth and we were to love all living things. God used evolution to create life and it only makes sense that God loved all of the life he created. Modern religion has sooooooo much to learn form those simple teachers of God that walked this earth and had no Bible to lean on. God loves us all the same and that has to include the tools of evolution as he made humans to walk this earth with all of the animals and plants. Native American's loved life so much they said prayers to "The Great Spirit in the Sky" before killing an animal to use for food. The opposite of this is sooooo many religions of the world teaching that God discriminates and only Loves those that believe as they teach. They agree God made all living things and we all are his child but they still like to teach he only blesses those that believe as they do..Why would God create me and then hate me because I think evolution took many years instead of 7 days. Why would God create me and you and then decide he loves you more than me. If you believe in Evolution and Believe that God loves his creation then you must learn to love all living things just as Black Elk taught without a Bible to lean on.


" Love your enemies and pray for those who persecute you"

Jesus



Upon suffering beyond suffering, the Red Nation shall rise again and


it shall be a blessing for a sick world. A world filled with broken


promises, selfishness and separations. A World longing for light again.


I see a time long after the skies have grown dark and dirty and the


water has become bad smelling. I see a time of seven generations when


all the colors of mankind will gather under the Sacred Tree of Life and


one whole earth will become one circle again.


In that day, there will be those among the Lakota who will carry the


knowledge and understanding of unity among all living things and the


young white ones will come to those of my People and ask for this wisdom.


I salute the light within your eyes where the whole universe dwells.


For when you are at that center within you and I am at that place within


me, we shall be One."


Tashunkewitko Oglala AKA Crazy Horse .Please note his use of the words Tree of life.


I am of the belief of my roots that the most important thing about God is love and to lean on him and not the words of man.


Mark 7 6,7


"Isaiah was right when he prophesied about you hypocrites as it is written:



These people honor me with their lips, but their hearts are far from me. They worship me in vain, their teachings are but rules taught by men,"


Jesus



" therefor I tell you, do not worry about your life, or what you will eat or drink, about your body and clothes. Look at the birds in the air, they do not store food away in barns, and yet your Father loves them and feeds them"

Jesus


God loves us all the same and ask that we light the world with our life so others may see our love. "The great spirit and Jesus agreed on most things"

American Indians did not come from China. Even though they look like the Chinese, they could not have possibly migrated from China some 30,000 years ago. It throws a monkey wrench on the western view of the world. What if the Chinese claim this land. Bad news for the white man....

America Indians must have come from Africa. Look at them...they look just like Africans. In fact, everybody came from Africa. That is a fact my friend. Ever hard of a lady named Lucy who lived 100,000 years ago and produced few million off springs. Must have laid a lot of eggs too.

What a BS....

That is a fact my friend. Ever hard of a lady named Lucy who lived 100,000 years ago and produced few million off springs. Must have laid a lot of eggs too. I never believed archeologists. They seem to intent on conecting everything to their theories, which even proved wrong, their still right. Their so busy tring to tie evolution to their time scale, that when someone finds a 3000 year old screw or gyro, they hide it because they don't want to face the facts. They can't seem to figure out how these structures all over the world was made without cranes, like stone henge. I find it strange that the aztecs had a better calender than we do, and sumerians knew how many planets where in our solar system without telescopes. The biggest disservice we have done to the ancient peoples of this planet is associate them with idiots.;)

I agree. I have said that in the next 5 to 10 years, we will hear a lot more from China and India about their side of the story. That will throw a major monkey wrench on the "sheep" thinking....

Lucy is not thought of by any archaeologists or palaeontologists as the one from which we all came.

The "Eve" idea does not refer to any single person; it refers to a period/place where, according to one theory, the tribe or group or whatever of our distant ancestors were concentrated at one identifiable point.

Quote

American Indians did not come from China. Even though they look like the Chinese, they could not have possibly migrated from China some 30,000 years ago. It throws a monkey wrench on the western view of the world. What if the Chinese claim this land. Bad news for the white man....

America Indians must have come from Africa. Look at them...they look just like Africans. In fact, everybody came from Africa. That is a fact my friend. Ever hard of a lady named Lucy who lived 100,000 years ago and produced few million off springs. Must have laid a lot of eggs too.

What a BS....


When I read this yesterday I found it offensive and I it upset me and I went offline. I come on this morning and wrote a little here to offer my views. But I have reread this and now see your statement for what it really is. smiles. I'm sorry for the brief time I felt you were being racist. AS you are really being openminded and very perceptive to the truth.

Natives (Indians) came in to the Americas from the direction of Egypt. Far before a Chinese or African or whatever set foot on the Land of the Americas.

The Tablet which they keep with a part of the Ten Commandments on it, they took with them while they were finding their way to a new Land where they could live.

Archeology and 'Lucy' are interesting items, I have much more the intention to go for the Egyptian way. Anyway, that direction, note that Egypt is just mentioned as a surrounding from where the human race scattered all over the Planet.

I am sorry, don't have a website on this. Is it necessarry to have a website on everything? I'll try to find some info about this and will get back to you later. Or you can try a search with 'google'.

Talk to you later...

Natives (Indians) came in to the Americas from the direction of Egypt. Far before a Chinese or African or whatever set foot on the Land of the Americas.

The Tablet which they keep with a part of the Ten Commandments on it, they took with them while they were finding their way to a new Land where they could live.
I am sorry, don't have a website on this. Is it necessarry to have a website on everything? I'll try to find some info about this and will get back to you later. Or you can try a search with 'google'


A website or a theory doesn't prove anything. However, I will show you which Native American tribes teach they DID come from the land bridge or Asia. Now you can show a site which someone from Egypt may claim otherwise or even a site from norway but those beleifs are NOT accepted in this country.

LONG BEFORE the white man set foot on American soil, the American Indians, or rather the Native Americans, had been living on this land. When the Europeans came here, there were probably 10 million Indians north of present-day Mexico and they had been living here for quite some time. It is believed by many anthropologists and archaeologists that the first people arrived during the last ice-age, approximately 20,000 - 30,000 years ago, crossing the land-bridge at the Bering Sound, from northeastern Siberia into Alaska. (There are other theories being studied, such as travel by boat - similar to Australian settlement. Here is a letter from a Native American visitor to this site about this. More information to come!) The oldest documented Indian cultures in North America are Sandia (15000 BC), Clovis (12000 BC) and Folsom (8000 BC).

When did Native Americans first arrive to North America?
After long debates over the years, archaelogists have finally come to a consensus that humans reached southern Chile 12,500 years ago. The date is more than 1,000 years before the previous benchmark for human habitation in the Americas, 11,200-year-old stone spear points first discovered in the 1930s near Clovis, N.M.
The Chilean site, known as Monte Verde, is near the Pacific Ocean. Even former skeptics have joined in agreeing that its antiquity is now firmly established and that the bone and stone tools and other materials found there definitely mark the presence of hunting-and-gathering people. The new consensus regarding Monte Verde, described in interviews last week and formally announced yesterday, thus represents the first major shift in more than 60 years in the confirmed chronology of human prehistory in what would much later be called, from the European prospective, the New World.

For American archaeologists it is a liberating experience; they have broken the Clovis barrier. Even moving back the date by as little as 1,300 years, archaeologists said, would have profound implications on theories about when people first reached America, presumably from northeastern Asia by way of the Bering Strait, and how they migrated south more than 10,000 miles to occupy the length and breadth of two continents. It could mean that early people, ancestors to the Indians, first arrived in the new world at least 20,000 years before Columbus.

Involved in this research has been a team of American and Chilean archaeologists led by Dr. Tom D. Dillehay of the University of Kentucky and a report will be published next month by the Smithsonian Institution. Also involved was Dr. Alex W. Barker, chief curator of the Dallas Museum of Natural History, Dr. C. Vance Haynes of the University of Arizona, Dr. James Adovasio of Mercyhurst College in Erie, Pa., Dr. David J. Meltzer of Southern Methodist University in Dallas, Dr. Dean Dincauze of the University of Massachusetts at Amherst, Dr. Donald K. Grayson of the University of Washington in Seattle and Dr. Dennis Stanford of the Smithsonian Institution in Washington.


Created in 1995 by Institute for Learning Technologies staff member Richard Calton, the Native American History Archive (NAHA) was an important early experiment in designing an online educational portal devoted to Native American resources for the use of K-12 teachers and students

WWW.Nativeamerica.com

Your theory may exist but it isn't accepted by the tribes of North Amrica

Originally posted by justagirl

Your theory may exist but it isn't accepted by the tribes of North Amrica

Tht is not really important. How could they remember??!
But they have stories about gods who came to them and they had beards and white skin. I do not say tht native indians were actually egyptians , but tht doesn't exclude the fact tht ancient egyptians visited Americas.

And Lucy:D I have studied ancient civilizations and have a thesis;) nothing is more relative than the evolution of human being When Britons slept in caves, Romans had mighty empire, when Romans were barbars, Heths(sp) had cities, when Heths(Hoths) sacrifaced humans (violent sacrifactions), Egyptians had united country with advanced governmental system. Humans have a trait to develop differently and be in different steps of evolution in different locations. consider Atlantis (http://www.atlan.org/articles/atlantis2/)

In some ways I have to agree with you but the reason I keep showing these links is because people keep telling me the land bridge has been proven wrong. That is incorrect..It hasn't been proven wrong but "new" therorys have been introduced. Now which is right and which is wrong???WEll for starters the land bridge HAS not been proven wrong so people that are saying that are "wrong" and the best proof any of you have offered is a link to a man from Norway that proved it was possible to sail a craft similiar to what the native americans built. WEll that isn't proof and the fact he found mythes of creation and the flood isn't proof either as I have shown you myths that were not from Egypt and I even showed the "accepted" Native American Commandants" and while a few lines are close to what moses taugh some are way different and none are like his. The accepted theory of the Native American community is the land bridge and therefore it is right until someone has proved it wrong. I admit at best the land bridge is a theory but the facts remains you are telling me that Native Americans did not cross the land bridge has no merit as I have shown you it is still considered history by the Native Americans of this country and also the United States of Amerca. Now with proof your theory one day may be taught in our schools but for now it isn't and it is wrong for you to tell me my roots are from Egypt

IoI I never told thtancient americans didn't come across the Bering.. I said tht there have been more thn just tht one way

I can show you MANY people from this thread that have said the land bridge had been proven wrong..if your not one of them I am sorry...smiles...

I'm not one of them:cool:

Many years ago, I went on a business trip to noth-east part of India, then to Beijing and then to northern province of China (Jilin) and back to US. Several weeks later, I took a vacation through New Mexico and stopped by an Indian Reservation. All I could see is the similarities in facial and body features among Northeast Indians, Northeast Chinese and Native Americans were astounding. I still think, the Native Americans came from Asia.

Smiles..you can take an Asian Born and raised in China or Japan and dress them in native American style and they look Native American. It's harder going the other way because of steoretyping and ever since I bleached my hair blonde people have quit asking me if I am Native American.

justagirl: what tribe ancestry you belong to? My wife has roots in Choctow Indian....

My Grandmother on my mothers side was Cherokee and I am a member of the Western Tribe of the Cherokee Nation(Okla even though I left there 8 years ago) But my interest in Native Americans go way beyond my roots as I am also a member of the Peyote Church of God.

Justagirl, because everybody here is always nagging about websites to prove your point I tell up front I have no website. Ok?

Surrounding! from Egypt, people, read please. Thank you. Do we have to 'argue' about this? Fact is that the Native Indians are in the Americas for thousands of years and been haunted, killed and chased away when the white men set foot on the Land of the Americas for the very first time. Now that is outrageous!

Justagirl, do you know how the Indians called the Land before it became the Americas? I am curious what the Natives called the Land they were living on. Did they actually have a name for the Land, or is that also an invention of the white men? Do you know something about it...?

There is so many different languages in Native American tribes. The reason for that is they were here as early 13000BC. As they spread in different areas looking for food many languages and belief's began to change some.

INYAN (rock) WI (sun) MAKA (earth) SKAN (sky) HANWI (moon) UNK (contention) TATE (wind

That is Lakota and many tribes base or share their culture and beliefs on it. I have their story of creation which is unlike anything taught in any other religion. The Native Americans taught "Maka" earth was God's and that no man could own it as it belonged to the two legged, the four legged, the bird, and and all green things growing. It was all considered part of Gods creation and equally loved by God.

The light of the Sun enlightens the entire Universe; and as the flames of the Sun come to us in the morning, so comes the goodness of Wakantanka (Wakan --Holy, Tanka -- Great), by which all creatures are enlightened. It is because of this that the four-leggeds and the wingeds always rejoice at the coming of the light. We can all see in the day, and this seeing is sacred, for it represents the sight of that real world which we may have only through the eye of the heart. When you wear this Sacred Sign in the Dance, you should remember that you are bringing Light into the Universe, and if you concentrate on these meanings, you will gain great benefit." Black Elk

Therefore they didn't name this country by any standards Europe was used too.

:) Thank you so much... :)

The giant (8 ft. tall) carved heads unearthed in Hondouras depict various races reminiscent of : African, Chinese, Mayan...

Who cares who is "first" its like calling the second born twin the youngest.

That was not the point. The article was the lead for a discussion, or not... That is for the people here to chose, if they want to post a reply or not...:)

"... and as the flames of the Sun come to us in the morning, so comes
the goodness of Wakantanka (Wakan --Holy, Tanka -- Great), by which
all creatures are enlightened."

Similar to the Dinè's need for the hogan's entrance to face east.

"Iiná Bindiiá, ko bee naáá anooséél"
(Together, We Carry The Torch of Life)

Take care :)

Actually, the original "Americans" were bacteria and virii.

Who here dare speak authoritatively of their inalienable rights to exist free from the imposed burden of our mammalian prejudice?

Sanctimony rules!

quote
Similar to the Dinè's need for the hogan's entrance to face east.

"Iiná Bindiiá, ko bee naáá anooséél"
(Together, We Carry The Torch of Life)

---------------------------------------------
smiles they slept facing the east so that the morning sun would greet them

Some more stuff:

PALEONTOLOGY
Study Hints at Asian Origin for Certain Mammal Groups
http://www.sciam.com/news/031502/IMG/mammal252.JPGImage: Reconstruction by E. Kasmer under direction of K.D. Rose

Around 55 million years ago, Earth's climate underwent a short but intense bout of global warming, accompanied by dramatic shifts in plant and animal life. Of particular interest to paleontologists is the sudden appearance in the Northern Hemisphere of several groups of mammals--including the primates, the even-toed hoofed mammals and the odd-toed hoofed mammals--at this so-called Paleocene/Eocene boundary. Researchers have long wondered exactly where these creatures, which differed considerably from the animals they replaced, came from. Findings published today in the journal Science indicate that at least one key group, and probably others, originated in Asia.

Working with samples obtained from southern China's Hengyang Basin, an international team of scientists led by Gabriel J. Bowen of the University of California, Santa Cruz, employed a variety of techniques to constrain the ages of important Asian animal groups. Comparisons of these sequences with those from North America and Europe clearly showed that a group of doglike carnivores known as hyaenodontid creodonts (such as the one pictured here) appeared in Asia before showing up in Europe or North America. And members of the primate and hoofed mammal groups, the investigators found, emerged in Asia no later than they did in North America. "Based on the best data we have now for correlating different Asian faunas, it looks quite possible that these groups were present in Asia first," Bowen observes, "but we can't say definitely yet."

The results fit neatly with phylogenetic analyses that have identified Asia as the birthplace of several modern mammal groups, including the primate order to which we belong," paleontologist Chris Beard of the Carnegie Museum of Natural History in Pittsburgh notes in a commentary accompanying the report. "They also point toward global warming as the driving force behind the most profound biotic reorganization of the Age of Mammals." --Kate Wong

Some say:

http://www.sciam.com/1999/0899issue/IMG/0899infocus1.gifhttp://www.sciam.com/news/030702/IMG/skull200.GIF

Hello, I would just like to say a few words seeing as I have many interests in the archaeology and paleontology.

There are remains found in Chile (S.A.) of humans that date back to around 13,500 years ago (oldest record in America's) at a site called Monte Verde. People are said to have migrated from Asia, this is true (wait I still got facts coming), but the fact remains that the Asian population originated in Africa along with the rest of the worlds population. It started in Africa and then Homo Erectus traveled out of Africa, around some 1.8 million years ago, to Middle East, Southern and Northern Asia, Southern Europe and all over Africa (includes Egypt). The difference in appearance among all these different races now is due to biological evolution. Europeans & Asians-short and stout, due to the fact of cold weather; Africans-tall and lengthy, due to the presence of the hot weather. Over years the differences got more visible and the races adapted more. Around 16 thousand years ago Asians started to migrate (best estimates) toward North America going to Siberia at Ushki Lake then continuing over toward SW Alaska. To cross it is said the had to take a short trip by walking and the a very short trip in a Canoe or Kayak over a very through Bering Strait to Alaska. From there it happened to be a certain time when the heat was just right that allowed a small path through glacial area that allowed passage into America’s (they’ve found pollen samples (date using palynology) and artifacts recovered from ice cores found near Alaska).



It’s a known fact that Asians and Indians are of the same decent due to a few major things. One reason is the fact of facial similarities: jet black hair, darker skin, facial structure, epicanthic fold, (the eye thing have present in Asians and a little in Indians).
Second fact is genetic/biological facts: shovel shape incisors http://www.sway.org/pics/10000145/20001961.jpg, cranial shape (rounder in shape from Africans and Europeans), and they have similar mitochondrial D.N.A.

Percentage of race having shovel shaped incisors.
Indians 80%
Northern Asians have a 60-70%
Southern Asians 40-50%
Europeans 3%
Africans 0%

I have more facts but going to leave it at this. Thanks.

1421: The Year China Discovered America
by Gavin Menzies:

http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/0060537639/qid=1067217295/sr=1-1/ref=sr_1_1/102-6333425-7484144?v=glance&s=books

yeah the native americans are from asia, but the egyptians probably crossed the atlantic, i believe it because there is evidence of cocao and nicotine(only found in Americas) in mummies in egypt, but i dont think there was any large scale migration. the boats were kinda small....

It is from that direction, humans started to scatter all over the world and settled.


You mean 'viruses'. I like that analogy on The Matrix! Humans are viruses.