Did a woman-led Mother Goddess society rule pre-history?

The concept of a major woman-led society in prehistory is contoversial. Anthropologist M. Gimbutas popularized the concept but the anthropologist consensus seems to be that there has never been a woman-run society.


The pro-woman-run sociey evidence is the following:

(1) Ancient mythology gives evidence that a Mother Goddess worshipping society did exist

(2) Agriculture logically sprang from the female as women did the gathering in hunting/gathering societies.

(3) Hundreds of prehistoric mother goddess-like figurines have been found.

(4) Ancient Crete and the Indus valley societies were both matrineal



Against the mother goddess era thesis are the following:

(1) In the known history of mankind, there is no written record of a woman-ruled society

(2) Agriculture had to also involve animal husbandry and men were the most experienced with animals

(3) There is ample evidence of weapons and war in pre history.

(4) Agriculture flourished later in many male-run societies.


ANYONE HAVE ANY THOUGHTS ON WHICH RULED PREHISTORY?

 

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It was a partnership model, which embraced feminine values, as opposed to a dominator model, but that doesn't necessarily mean they were women-ruled. Women cooperate, which mean that men must be included. Read "The Chalice and the Blade", by Elaine Reisler. This is an important distinction. Accustomed as we are to a dominator/ patriarchal model, we often assume that a matriarchal society would be dominated by women, but the difference is more profound.

 

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I think woman prerecorded language ruled the nest . The home . It is still evident by the way woman is still the ruler of the nest . Except Man is real good at enslaving things so the Woman roll of ruling the Nest has been dominated upon by Man ideology . King of his own Castle Ideology. We see how well that works when woman realizes she can replace the king in the castle in modern society . So here is the other thing " Government was invented by Woman . Men don't talk much and I assume they didn't talk much in the stone age either . A few hand signals to plan out a skirmish line . Flanking signals and stuff like that but organizable behavior belongs to Womans talk around the fire pit . Much more complicated thought then Arg Go Go Left Animal Big Kill in a hand signal . So organized behavior I believe sprung up from Woman Gossip of organizing the nest . Which became the village . Agriculture changed it and the Man found him self hanging around the nest more and more and then and only then did Man learn to gossip . They Started there long Journey to find there feminine side . We are almost there . Still lots of Cave Men in the world , but you got to admit the Nanny state is getting stronger all the time . Woman is starting to reclaim Her rightful Roll as Goddess of the Earth too . Man is so stupid He can barely detect it . All while victory is snatched from his feeble hands .

 

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Back before agriculture, big game was hunted for tens of thousands of years until it became extinct. Then, the women developed aqgriculture. In both cases, their hunting and then the agricultural technology was wrapped up in their religious lore. The Mother Goddess probably was believed to have demanded they plant seeds of each crop at a distinct depth which (by experience the women had proven the best). They gave the goddess credit for it. (!)

And, yes, their large agricultural communes were not ruled by contralized power. Their communes had no government, no cities, no states as we know them. Women ruled only through public opinion. It was a disorganized age of Temple Prostitution and gay culture homosexuality.

Real government as we now know it did not arise until Ancient Sumer developed a patriarchal monogamous system. That was the beginning of civilization and the much more rapid progress the human race has achieved since then.

I would disagree with one thing. With women dominating through public opinon, the men would have lost their alpha-ness so that the sub-dominant gay culture would dominate the male underclass. Only a few more charismatic males would be favored by the women, and those men would have no interest in the women's other children. Most men would be "nerdish." They would have been subject to bizzare episodes of violence and worked only when they had to do so for something to eat. It was a system that brought out only the worst in men.

 

So you are saying that men have an innate need to be able to order around others? That deprived of being able to order around others, they will become dysfunctional?

Which means the rest of us have to serve as pit-props for the fragile, delicate male ego that must be nurtured gently, much like a hothouse flower?

I think your statement above shows how you are unable to view masculinity outside the context of your own cultural value systems.

I don't think Minang men...who live in a matrilineal and generally-acknowledged-to-be matriarchal society...feel particularly emasculated and weak.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Overseas_Minangkabau
In their culture...the women stay home, with the babies and wealth and farming the land.
The young men go abroad in lots of white -collar and professional fields.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Minangkabau_Merchants

 

No offense, but I fail to understand how any of that constitutes "evidence." At best, you could say that it's not inconsistent with a (completely speculative) woman-run society. None of those four points actually indicates such a society.

 

http://www.thejakartapost.com/news/2009/03/24/fathering-a-minang-matriarchy.html

 

that is strange . Me red car is going to fast today .

That sounds like Fundamental Mormons in a way . Except womens rule version . The Name is boggling my mind " Meshkianggasher the Sumerian King . You see the similarity ? This falls right into my speculation that he was king that took the day from Women . His acts of Kingship that changed society to how we know it . I think I am on to something . He fucked it up . Split the world in half . Knocked Man out of his natural role from the past evolutionary track of humanity . He is the Fucker that did it I am positive .


If I am his afterbirth then I am giving it back . Preiod


When I first saw this thread and then again today my mind said the thread was all about Mother Goose

My ears are ringing

It clouded my thought , Oh yeah I wonder if there is a lost decree . A changing of the guards so to speak . For a set time period and that is what all the 2012 stuff is about . Some of you are familiar with my speculation that there was a master plan coded into the written language . That same guy and his son are rumored to have invented language in made up mythologies . Why is the question ? Were do people get these notions ? How did they even come onto the knowledge they existed ? Scholastic achievement and then made up stories for some ungodly reason ? Fuck I don't get it ?

 

Wow!!! God Damn Me anyway ! The Mother still in this society controls the politics even at the dinner table .

This must be one of the Micronations Aye ! My new thinking cap . Yeah Nation building at its finest . Meganation stand " The 99%

 

Social scientists such as archeologists, anthropologists, sociologists, etc. compile data that needs to be interpreted. Social theorists are at the other end. Their task is to interpret it, to put it all together. In prehistory, however, there is not much reliable data.

So, what do you do when a there is not much data? The normal thing to do would be to assemble all date you had and draw up the best picture you can that is consistent with the data you have. Social theorists do not do this if it leads in directions that are "politically incorrect." Why risk your career?

I disagree with your statement that "none of those four points actually indicates such a society."

brough
http://civilization-oveview.com

 

A good reference and correct. No tribe appears to be completely woman-run in these times and perhaps in the last five thousand years. The matrilineal systems stem from the pre-history age when the male role in fertility was still unrecognized. Descent was figured only in the female line and the men were in that sense superfulous. In the hunting society, they played their instinctive role, but in the new and formative age of agriculture inwhich women, the gatherers, would have played a key part, it is only natural that the ideology would be one based on "a great mother." It would have been logical to them that female-fertility is what drove agriculture. Thus, their religious lore would have her be symbolic of agriculture and what they discovered that worked was what "She" would have bade them do in their ideological lore.

brough
http://civilization-overview.com

 

I find it very hard to believe that any society of humans could fail to recognize the male role in fertility. You don't have to be a master of the scientific method to notice that women only ever become pregnant after having sex. Is there any evidence of a society that didn't recognize the male role in fertility ever existing anywhere?

Again, no offense, but this sounds complete speculative. Is there ANY actual evidence to support ANY of this? Or does making wild-ass guesses constitute "doing social science" now?

 

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No I don't think so, there are a few matriarchial societies but they tend to be the exception rather than the norm. I think it is simply that, like cars and thunderstorms, men used to devise female names for the gods they considered as having power over them.

 

When the incest taboo and cross cousin marriage was instituted, as the willful basis for human reproduction, it would have required female leverage over the male, since the male is more compulsive in terms of diversified desire. Matriarchs would have been in charge of the marriage and reproduction rites. Once this took root patriarchs appear.

The fact that there is no written history shows this occurred before writing, more than likely, at the prehuman to human transition (in terms of the human mind ). The cross cousin marriage approach would help expand the group as a precursor to large cooperatives of civilization.

 

Again I disagree, see all patriarchial societies today, what do you think is the role of mothers in such societies?

 

If you look at the family, the mother is often in charge, since the wife will have leverage over her husband. The prehumans were small migratory groups so the leverage of the wife and mother would have a higher proportion. As the group expands, during civilization, the males start to dominate. In a small group the mother can win with her love and caring. But after a certain size you need the fear of the male since the mother loses control since unconditional love can mean anarchy. Conditional love of the father is law.

 

I haven't seen any differences in smaller tribal societies in the Indian context, even where they still have goddesses. Is there any evidence from other societies?

 

Again, this seems to fall firmly into the "wild-ass speculation" category.

...Oh, right...since there's no written record of it ever happening, we can logically conclude that it must have happened before writing. Since, after all, we know it just *must* have happened

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Nonsense, the only things that were absent were unnecessary wars that only reinforce male pride. Men were still men. You have a bizarre conception of cooperative models of society.

 

Well what about Eresh-Ki-Gal and the culture that held her up as the most important of all over earth . I know Nergal took her down in a story . Yet I think that was circumvented event of Male Dominance by taking agriculture from Female .

S,A.M. I been busy with that blue bull thing . There are some very strange anomalies surrounding Gold and Blue . Memes that have reoccurred through history . I heard one today in a song that was freaky . The song sings about Dropping out with Me . Tune in ,Give up, Drop out , With Me . Sounds like Hippie stuff . That was not the freaky part 1 The phrase "Aquarium Fortress" was . That sounds Like Enki living at the bottom of the sea to Me . I find that incredibly strange given that I live at the bottom of Lake Missoula and my new name is Me. I didn't make this shit up and I certainly did not plan it . Check out that song " Big Sky Country by Chris Whitley . Listen to the music . I think Meshkianggasher did it . He disappeared into the sea. I think he did it as a joke on humanity cause we so mean to each other . The last laugh of the Fat Lady so to speak . I do see why People in America think Meki is a girl name after all . Young Asian Girl name at that . I didn't plan that shit . I didn't even realize it until Fraggle pointed it out . Meshkiangasher has to be Melchizedek. I am almost 100% certain . It sure fits with the sea peoples Melquat. You know any one from Cyprus ? I think they know ? Or a certain Cult in Cyprus might . Milcom , Melek ,Moloch and the likes as the Blue Bull , Mithra too the way he is depicted wrestling a bull . I think all comes from that one Sumerian King and is the same King Melchizedek in the bible . Abram was from Ur in the legends of the old poets .