Destroy organised religion?

This is a dual question thread - one for atheists and one for theists.

Atheists

Assume that it has been proven that organised religion is the cause of great injustices and evil in the world and has no benefits in return. You have been drafted onto a committee debating the best ways to remove organised religion from your society - what do you propose?

Theists

God (or whatever) appears directly to you in his full glory. God tells you that every organised religion in the world is wrong and that he intends to instill a true religion on the world. God has chosen you and you alone to prepare the ground and destroy organised religion, you will receive no help from God in doing this task (don't question God!) - what would be the best way this could be achieved?

 

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Go with the athiest way and you're gonna create war.
Go the other and people will think you are nuts.
But ye, destroy it all!

To be honest though, let's bring back Hitler, give him a fine tune and set him off.
...shhhhhnell!

 

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watch the DVD tape given by the 'athiest' above...hehe

 

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1/ The difference between atheism and a theism (I.E a belief in god) is a religous difference
2/ Religious difference can be used as an EXCUSE for war, it has been, it is being and it will be.
3/ IF hypothetically there was some potlitical and religous tension between either a single/set of athiest states and a single/set of Religious states that the religous difference between these 2 sides can be used as an excuse for a war.

I don't think you debate either of the first 2 points. I am using an example to demsonstrate the last of these points. In it I happened to use the Religious states as the aggressor, but the roles can be easily reversed. I f you are so naive to believe that their are people out their that will manipulate the religous difference and people who are willing to be manipulated in this way then, well I do not see the point in keep going on with this. I have explained it as clearly as I can (bearing in mind english is only a second language). And I don't really understand why you are bringing converting people into this. I am talking about people who couldn't give a s*** about who or what they are manipulating as long it ends the way they want it to. Conversion is only one excuse that a group can give for a war:

suppression of 1 belief in another country
FEAR of conversion
FEAR of suppresion
Religous Artifacts being retained
Renouncement of Religion
History of suppresion

and probaly some others.


As for wether atheism/agnosticsm is more benifcial to society, that is an argument for another time. However I do think there is room for both in modern society, but what their isnt room for is when people use religion to lobby goverments or to create or petition laws based on their religious beliefs alone and not the the benefit of the society.

I have a point I would like to raise about the hypocritcal nature of the Islamist protests that I will edit into this post later, I am too tired and in a rush to put it in now.

 

It wouldn't be achieved in my lifetime. Changing a way of thinking starts with the generation after me and the one after them, and the one after them, ect...

 

firstly it's not assumption, religion is the most evil institution known to man.
I would absolutely love it to be eradicated from humanity, but I'm realistic, most humans need to worship something be it a film star, singer or a leader of men, and a god. you first have to take away that basic human trait, but then you left with non-humans, however we can outlaw religion in some way. and leave humans free to idolise anything real.
I would propose: that children should be allowed to grow up without any form of indoctrination what so ever. any person found worshiping the supernatural or anything unnatural, would be removed from society, as they would(are a danger to the development of the human animal)and are quite clearly mad. ( it might be radical but it's working in europe and the east, it's only a matter of time.) religion is dying.

 

Speculation or do you actually have real facts to support this absurd opinion. Religion dates back as far as we can accurately study in civilizations and will continue on forever.

Edit:

Yes my statement is speculation.

 

The question probably isn't the best. I don't see any evidence to suggest that such a thing called 'evil' exists. Similarly, I am not sure that we could hold religion accountable for our tolerance and definitions of justice.

However, just to play along, I would propose that we work on eliminating 'belief' (religious belief specifically) as a means to understand reality. Substituting it with evidence-based thinking, fostering education, providing training on how to have a good relationship with the ego, and uniting everyone under a common non-fantasy behavior / action / value / objective with regular celebration would probably be quite beneficial.

 

While religion has been used to support countless horrors, the belief in God is not the root cause of the problem.

The root cause is that we are social primates that have evolved so as to ensure survival of our group. We need some degree of altruism to be succesful - generally altruism related to kin and others like us - but when it comes to 'outsiders' they are competitors that must be avoided or eliminated. Hence xenophobia and racism. We are slowly emerging from these in-born traits but it is taking a long time.

Organized religion has generally made it worse, it has simply given clan A another reason to think it is superior to group B. A reading of the old testament is quite enlightening when looked at in this way. Every group naturally thinks they are the most important, that others are below them. Hence, capture the cities, kill the men, rape the women. This impulse is there whether you having the backing of a God or not. Having God's blessing just makes it worse.

Wipe organized religion off the planet tomorrow, and sure, it solves some problems, but there will still be xenophobes, there will still be racists, because, like the song says:

We all figure that our homes are set above
other peoples than the ones we know and love

Look at the North Koreans. They are just as capable of fucking up the world without any religious motivation at all.

Religion is not the root cause. It's deeper, more primal than that.

 

Interesting, it would definitely be difficult to organise anything under the 'sacrement' (in my experience anyway), thus keeping religion and spirituality personal.

Where can I get the DVD?

 

Mythbuster,

I read your argument about religious difference in another thread which you started and I am thinking about it at the moment. It is not relevant to my question though.

With regards to organised religion and atheism's benefits to society, I happen to believe we would be better off without religion but I don't have a proof for it yet. This is why I asked people to assume not accept.

In this thread I would really like to know if you have any thoughts on how organised religion could be defeated, not if you agree with the need to defeat it.

 

I have to ask people to assume for this question to stop myself from getting involved in of-topic debates.

I'm not an expert on human needs (but I am an anorak for facts) so I could do with a proof or link to a proof that most humans need to worship something or else we would be left with non-humans.

I think your proposal for a law against religious indoctrination of children is excellent - the exact details would have to be hammered out very finely to avoid violent uprising though. Perhaps starting with no religious indoctrination in schools and moving on to church and home in time. I could easily imagine a society where indoctrinating children would be considered child abuse.

 

Thanks for playing along Crunchy Cat.

I didn't put a great deal of thought into wording the questions so I'll ask for your help - how can I put my question and avoid your objections?

I agree, I think education on evidence-based thinking would help (could I just say education on reasoning or would that be different or not precise enough).

The ego/relationship point you made is great, I had thought along similar lines but I hadn't ben able to put is so concisely.

I'm assuming that your last point is regarding a change of culture so I will have to think about it for a while.

 

Lerxst,

I am not saying organised religion is evil with my question. I am just asking how you would go about destroying it.

I don't think smoking is evil (I smoke), but I can say that a good way to stop people smoking is through the health warnings on packs and advertising.

 

But how would you go about the changing of thinking in this case?

 

Samething with masturbation. They are both addicts but one is more healhy then the other. Also there is no saying in the bible (Do not smoke) so all we have is 1 life. not 2, just 1.

 

Declare war on the Vatican City and any other theocracies, except Tibet, and appeal to the inherent sense of Human Nationalism to unite all and strive toward a united human government.

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And just for fun:

I'd go: "Do it yourself, you lazy hack. I mean, you are 'god', right?"
At which point, being presented with a logical paradox, and, being not logical and being unable cope with the reality of his illogic, god would commit suicide by OD'ing on cocaine. Then, I'd laugh. A lot.

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the last thing secular atheists want... is a direct violent clash with the religious...

the religious out number them.. and are zelot.. and fanatical..

and will see the atheists as evil, and guided by satan.. and so must be destoyed.
and killing you will be just and godly, as revelations.. suggest... not to mention the koran....

no... the secular atheists do not want such a fight...

and the religious.. im sorry to say... do... its in scripture.. most anyway.

ORGANISED RELIGION... need only be reined in... and regulated.. and made to practice what it preaches.. and not just collect money.

if you stupid atheists had any real brains.. that would be your agenda..

but it is not.. so i have made it mine.. and i am definately a.......... theist.

-MT

 

Mosheh Thezion... your just wasting your time. no one is listening to your repetitive religious jargon

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Watch this: http://arkansastonight.castpost.com/185809.html

Your like this woman. :m:

 

case in point... a stupid atheist... who doesnt see the inherent value in religion..
and would instead.. probubly promote its demise..

why??? cause it makes them feel bad... about sin and stuff.

ha. you should feel bad... and if nothing else.. you need religion.. so as to give you something to oppose...

for if there was no religions at all.. humanism.. would replace it.. and so again..
you would find ways to oppose it.

that is all i ever see from atheists... they oppose for the sake of opposing..

and of course.... they all launch into tyrads about science....
science they are not prepared to discuss in detail. they cant..

they just take the word of atheistic scientists who put out big bang in the first place.

and im sorry, but.... thats called faith...

you dont investigate for yourself.. and you just buy what they sell you.

its the same as religion... your just buying a different package.. with less wrapping.

-MT