What's your problem with democracy?

it demoralizes society, creates ego's alienated, materialistic goals overshadow the spiritual gratification from uniting with society

So, you're against individualism?

So, you're against individualism?

indeed I am...in a way.

So, you think big brother should decide for you?

Only for you, I already know the answer for myself.;)

So, you think big brother should decide for you?

in a way yes...until I become the big brother.

....Democracy is great in theory

Why no poll?

why is darksidZz

I want my vote against Democracy counted!

why is darksidZz

you didn't know that? :bugeye:

I want my vote against Democracy counted!

I think having a vote about whether democracy is good or bad would be the best thing to do .

The U.S. was origionally a Constitutional Republic...

The U.S. was origionally a Constitutional Republic...

It still is to some. ;)

What's your problem with democracy?
That so far it is only an idea that we don't actually get to experience, at least on the country level.
I see gestures at it, but only that. Citizens do not yet have equal power in choosing who leads and do not have equal power influencing how those leaders lead. Not by a long shot.

But the idea itself is a good one...there it is, off at the horizon, ever receding.

it demoralizes society, creates ego's alienated, materialistic goals overshadow the spiritual gratification from uniting with society

So it's better to reduce people's free will, tell them what values to have...

I mean, if God wanted someone to do that, he was probably the one to do that.

So it's better to reduce people's free will, tell them what values to have...

I mean, if God wanted someone to do that, he was probably the one to do that.

no people choose to have their ego free will be reduced for much greater gratification of will of society. A place were there are no criminals, were everyone is a friend of everyone, were everyone can stay in another one's house because we are all friends. Yes it is better to tell people what values there are in life, because as a social matrix in communism it guides the ego to become one of its own.

The U.S. was origionally a Constitutional Republic...

It still is. It just gets mislabelled as a democracy.

no people choose to have their ego free will be reduced for much greater gratification of will of society. A place were there are no criminals, were everyone is a friend of everyone, were everyone can stay in another one's house because we are all friends. Yes it is better to tell people what values there are in life, because as a social matrix in communism it guides the ego to become one of its own.
It won't work, dragon. You can't force someone to be a friend of everyone. I myself don't want to be friends with everyone. There are too many people out there that annoy the shit out of me.
There are also too many people out there that don't give a shit about anyone but themselves. History should tell you both that, and the fact that you will never rid the world of these kinds of people, unfortunately.

Democracies only work with a well-informed populace.

- N

Democracies only work with a well-informed populace.

- N

And can you tell me the reasons that a populace wouldn't be well informed?

And can you tell me the reasons that a populace wouldn't be well informed?

Their skin colors are different?

wait no, they all have different views and economic backgrounds


Wait no they have different religions!!

wait wait!!! They have problems!

Wait no they watch different news channels!

Democracy is simply tyranny of the majority. A majority who more often than not are ignorant.

And can you tell me the reasons that a populace wouldn't be well informed?

Does anyone even have to answer that?

I guess you must not be well-informed about the uninformed. ;)

- N

no people choose to have their ego free will be reduced for much greater gratification of will of society. A place were there are no criminals, were everyone is a friend of everyone, were everyone can stay in another one's house because we are all friends. Yes it is better to tell people what values there are in life, because as a social matrix in communism it guides the ego to become one of its own.
And the biggest egos decide what the others should believe and do.
No thanks.

Democracies only work with a well-informed populace.

- N
I agree with the sentiment and I would love us to try this out, but as of today we can study no examples of this, so your assertion is simply speculative. I don't see any well-informed populaces and I see the cause: those with power control the media.

so your assertion is simply speculative

Yeah, when we have people voting on candidates due to their looks, have no idea about their voting records, or they would be the kinda guy they'd like to have a beer with, easily manipulated by soundbite ads, etc etc. Hey, I guess what we need aren't a well-informed public, we just need to get rid of morons. ;)

- N

The problem with democracy is revelaed in the ancient Latin phrase - Like king, like people.
In modern terms: Like people, like government.
And because the majority of the society is unfit to make an educated decision, a democratically elected government mostly has the same problem.

I support the rule of the most educated people. In the ancient Greece democracies worked exactly because the citizens were the most educated people - an elite.

In the modern West though I see that it's those that have the most money rule. A prime example of that is the US with its corporations.

By the way I heard an interesting observation:
In order to determine the center of power, just find the tallest building in the city.
In the middle ages those were cathedrals and churches, in the 17, 18, 19th century those were the government (state) buildings. Nowadays those are the great merchant buildings.

Quite correct, because only the most powerful can afford such expenses and it's in the human nature to show off your power.

Yeah, when we have people voting on candidates due to their looks, have no idea about their voting records, or they would be the kinda guy they'd like to have a beer with, easily manipulated by soundbite ads, etc etc. Hey, I guess what we need aren't a well-informed public, we just need to get rid of morons. ;)

- N
Well, we have a schooling system that actually punishes critical thinking - except when it is used in tiny containers, carefully controlled and segregated (on tests for example) - and we have media controlled by a small group of people with common political interests. The agar agar really on supports certain life forms.

By the way I heard an interesting observation:
In order to determine the center of power, just find the tallest building in the city.
In the middle ages those were cathedrals and churches, in the 17, 18, 19th century those were the government (state) buildings. Nowadays those are the great merchant buildings.

Quite correct, because only the most powerful can afford such expenses and it's in the human nature to show off your power.

I wonder...when Nuclear war hits Earth and the ground will be too radioactive to live on, will the rich who control the most money flow have the thickest underground bunkers? ;)

The problem with democracy is the majority of voters are not qualified to make decisions on leadership.

In the same way that the majority of soldiers are not qualified to choose the generals.

Or the majority of students are not qualified to chose their professors.

Average majorities are almost always wrong.
And this is precisely what democracy is based on.

It needs some refinement in the way of excluding the majority while empowering a competent minority of voters...possibly only 20% of eligible citizens.

Perhaps we should return to an aristocratic form of government. Individuals who are trained since birth to govern, and who lack the ambition of many politicians witnessed in today's age, might be preferable to rule by the ignorant majority of plebs.

Aristocracy will return in space age...well at least the birth of it will see rise to it.