Your thoughts please.
My view is that it's clear why a paedophile would choose a career in the church, but not why the church would then protect him and cover up his crimes. Perhaps this film will tell us why?

http://www.apple.com/trailers/lions_gate/deliverusfromevil/

Once again ..... is it an issue of religion or an issue of power?
:rolleyes:

ar'nt they one and them same, unless your on another planet to the rest of us.

If you create a priest class that is not allowed to have wives then you will attract men who do not want wives. You set yourself up for trouble.

Then when trouble comes they do their best to cover up the trouble, Because revelation undermines the standing of the organization in public opinion.

It is clear that child abusers strive to get into positions of control over children. Any organization will do. The Scouts, the Church, little Athletics, Cadets, pre-schools, the options are many and varied.


All Praise The Ancient Of Days

My view is that it's clear why a paedophile would choose a career in the church, but not why the church would then protect him and cover up his crimes.

Well, isn't it quite similar to how a family will stand up for, try to protect, another family member that's been accused of a crime? I mean, you always hear family members say, "Oh, Johnny would't kill his wife! He's a good boy and he loved his wife!" Same thing, ain't it. And wouldn't you call it denial?

Baron Max

Well, isn't it quite similar to how a family will stand up for, try to protect, another family member that's been accused of a crime? I mean, you always hear family members say, "Oh, Johnny would't kill his wife! He's a good boy and he loved his wife!" Same thing, ain't it. And wouldn't you call it denial?

Baron Max

No I don't think it's the same, and even if it was then it doesn't make it any better, denial or otherwise.

If you create a priest class that is not allowed to have wives then you will attract men who do not want wives. You set yourself up for trouble.

Then when trouble comes they do their best to cover up the trouble, Because revelation undermines the standing of the organization in public opinion.

It is clear that child abusers strive to get into positions of control over children. Any organization will do. The Scouts, the Church, little Athletics, Cadets, pre-schools, the options are many and varied.


All Praise The Ancient Of Days

I don't see the connection between not being married and being a paedohile.

Once again ..... is it an issue of religion or an issue of power?
:rolleyes:

It's an issue of organized religion abusing power.

Is not religion a grab at power?

But I can’t even get a pizza delivered, how can I get delivered from evil?

Just send the church of spuriousmonkey 50$ and we will deliver you from evil.

Just send the church of spuriousmonkey 50$ and we will deliver you from evil.Are you muscling in on this den of selfless, intellectual, dim-wits, ripe for exploitation?
Get your own barn, mister!!!!

I can save them for $20.

I'll save them for $10 and they all get a free chicken meal.

I'll save them for $10 and they all get a free chicken meal.You might but do you teach the correct epistemology from the appropriate unquestionable authority figures, concerning ontology?

No…I didn’t think so.

You might but do you teach the correct epistemology from the appropriate unquestionable authority figures, concerning ontology?

No…I didn’t think so.
Did I mention that I'll also supersize the Cokes?

People will not believe they can be saved for a mere 10$. They are not that stupid. 50$ will buy them the right feeling!

My company has delivered 1000s of people from evil in a dozen countries across the world. Economies of scale mean that we can now deliver you from evil for the new LOW PRICE of $9.99*!!!

Price excludes VAT. Transport not provided. Customers may not necessarily be delivered from evil. Your home is at risk if you do not keep up repayments on any mortgage or loan secured on it. If you're absolutely positive that you do not not want us to not sell your details to 3rd party advertisers, please don't not tick here. [ ]

People will not believe they can be saved for a mere 10$. They are not that stupid. 50$ will buy them the right feeling!I think spuriousmonkey makes a good point.

I once saw a documentary concerning consumerism.
Someone in marketing said that sports cars are purposely pricy because it gives off the feeling of exclusivity.

The buyer wants to feel like he’s buying into a selective group.
If the cars were cheaper they wouldn’t buy them, the feeling of exclusivity would be diminished.

This is another example of how the clever prey on the vanity and stupidity of human beings.

Now see how it relates to religion?
Faith must be based on accepting the absurd as ‘truth’.
The more absurd the claim is the more sacrifice in reason is required by the believer. The believer feels like he’s sacrificing to belong to a select few, chosen ones.

Make the claim absurd enough and then sprinkle it with threats and promises to compensate for any misgivings and you’ve got the foundations of a religion.

My company has delivered 1000s of people from evil in a dozen countries across the world. Economies of scale mean that we can now deliver you from evil for the new LOW PRICE of $9.99*!!!

Price excludes VAT. Transport not provided. Customers may not necessarily be delivered from evil. Your home is at risk if you do not keep up repayments on any mortgage or loan secured on it. If you're absolutely positive that you do not not want us to not sell your details to 3rd party advertisers, please don't not tick here. [ ]For $9.98 Satyr offers salvation, the forgiveness of sin, a private tet-a-tet prayer session in which Satyr will place you in direct contact with the Man Him self, a beachfront resort (open bar and buffet included) for two weeks and afterwards a signed and sealed letter of God’s approval and a promise that you will be given front row seats in paradises Cirque De Soleil performances.

The church of Spuriousmonkey will deliver you from evil for a mere $499.99*.

Bring us your teenage daughter and we bless her spirit in a private room for only $199**

delivery demands a sacrifice!









*excluding prayer tax of $99.
**excluding condom charges of $34,99. An ugly surcharge of $459,99 will be charged depending on the quality of the material offered.

The church of Spuriousmonkey will deliver you from evil for a mere $499.99*.

Bring us your teenage daughter and we bless her spirit in a private room for only $199**

delivery demands a sacrifice!









*excluding prayer tax of $99.
**excluding condom charges of $34,99. An ugly surcharge of $459,99 will be charged depending on the quality of the material offered.Did I say $9.98?
I meant $998.99.

Satyr will allow a few select female worshipers to kiss his Holy …scepter, followed by a screaming, private exaltation of God’s penis in which Satyr will stand in for God and impregnate the faithful.
The splattering of God’s seed on their upturned faces is free.

Let me see:

Sermon - $100.00
Holy Seed – 399.99
Satyr’s Sweat - $100.00
Satyr’s Private Prayer Session - $400.00

The Experience – priceless.

Seriously though, you guys have got to stop having a joke at religions expense. It's all serious business you know.










October fools. :D (it's like April fools but in October)

ar'nt they one and them same, unless your on another planet to the rest of us.
No - improper religius conduct is one thing (ie philosophical deviation), improper use of power is another - in this instance its a case of improper use of power in the guise of religion - says nothing about religion - says more about human fallibility, which you can find examples of all across the board - but if you have a pet hate of religin then this might seem noteworthy I guess
:D

It's an issue of organized religion abusing power.

So you agree its a power issue?

So you agree its a power issue?

Yes I do, in as much that the power the church seems to have over it's congregation is abused. In the same way that radical Muslim clerics incite violence, they are also abusing children but in a different way.
Light, why do you think the church attempted to cover up and even condone these crimes (as this brief trailer would have us believe)?

Yes I do, in as much that the power the church seems to have over it's congregation is abused. In the same way that radical Muslim clerics incite violence, they are also abusing children but in a different way.
Light, why do you think the church attempted to cover up and even condone these crimes (as this brief trailer would have us believe)?
simple - its a power issue

And how man reaches for omnipotence by invoking the unknown and unknowable and allying one’s self with its uncertain certainty.
And how religion, has always and will forever be, another human power grab and form of mental control – a way of claiming divine power while avoiding personal effort.
And how religion has always been and forever will be an organized form of mind-control, residing on its unquestionable decrees and the gullibility, ignorance and fears of its minions.

1. God is allegedly Omnipotent, Omniscient, and Omnibenevolent
2. Through Omniscience, God knows how to prevent evil
3. Through Omnibenevolence, God wants to prevent evil
4. Through Omnipotence, God has the power to prevent evil
5. Evil still exists.

God created universe in balance.
Love and evil are presented in human actions.
If you don't believe in evil, you might see it as merely the abscence of love.
If you believe in evil, then it is the balance against love, unless you also don't believe love exists.

Live,

Love and evil are presented in human actions. But an omnipotent god could have designed people without evil. Since evil exists then if an omnipotent god exists then it deliberately wanted and chose to allow evil. It has nothing to do with us.

Perhaps it's that damn forgiveness thing.
Perhaps it's a focus on appearance rather than substance.

Live,

But an omnipotent god could have designed people without evil. Since evil exists then if an omnipotent god exists then it deliberately wanted and chose to allow evil. It has nothing to do with us.
That only works if good and evil are objective qualities separate from the individual perceiving the act. There could still be an omnipotent god if good and evil are relative.

JM,

That only works if good and evil are objective qualities separate from the individual perceiving the act. There could still be an omnipotent god if good and evil are relative.I think the point is not to deny an omnipotent god but to indicate the conflict with Omni-benevolence (can do only good). Even if evil is considered relative then doesn’t that still contradict the claim for Omni-benevolence? The issue would then become how to erase the relativity of the two paradigms. Wouldn’t the result simply be a bland “goodness”. We could argue that good can only be truly appreciated when contrasted with evil, but then would evil actually have to exist for that appreciation to occur?

JM,

I think the point is not to deny an omnipotent god but to indicate the conflict with Omni-benevolence (can do only good). Even if evil is considered relative then doesn’t that still contradict the claim for Omni-benevolence? The issue would then become how to erase the relativity of the two paradigms. Wouldn’t the result simply be a bland “goodness”. We could argue that good can only be truly appreciated when contrasted with evil, but then would evil actually have to exist for that appreciation to occur?
Well, I would have to agree with you, then. Omni-benevolence is not a quality that I usually attribute to God when considering it's potential qualities.

1. God is allegedly Omnipotent, Omniscient, and Omnibenevolent
2. Through Omniscience, God knows how to prevent evil
3. Through Omnibenevolence, God wants to prevent evil
4. Through Omnipotence, God has the power to prevent evil
5. Evil still exists.
Only when the living entity misuses their free will - I think you posted the same version of the same argument before - you have to address how free will can exist with out the opportunity to express "evil", or error