The public will be asked whether scientists should be allowed to create hybrid human-animal embryos, regulators have announced.

The Human Fertilisation and Embryo Authority says it will not rule on any research applications until a consultation has been completed.

Ministers proposed outlawing such work after unfavourable public opinion.

Two UK teams have put in requests to mix human and animal cells in order to find cures for degenerative diseases.

Dr Donald Bruce of the Church of Scotland said while the Church was not opposed to all research involving embryonic stem cells, it was expressly opposed to research involving the creation of human-animal 'hybrid' cloned embryos, calling the work unethical and unnecessary.

He explained: "Some experiments, no matter how medically useful, would be unethical. Research with animal-human cloned embryos would breach moral norms."
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/health/6251627.stm


Discuss

http://www.unf.edu/classes/freshmancore/core1images/discus.jpg

Discus.

Discuss
That's...awesome...
http://www.unf.edu/classes/freshmancore/core1images/discus.jpg

Discus.

I could probably take him.

It is too bad that the people who are in favor of it, or who are at least in favor of allowing it, aren't as vociferous as those against. Those who are against always mind everyone else's business and cause trouble.

Could we really make centaurs like that?

Could we really make centaurs like that?

No, but I like interesting poll options

What are hybrid embryos?
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/main.jhtml?xml=/news/2007/01/05/nembryo05.xml

Scientists want to create the hybrid embryos that would be around 99.9 per cent human and 0.1 per cent animal in order to produce embryonic stem cells - the body's basic building blocks that can grow into all other types of cells.
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They hope to use stem cells to both understand and provide new treatments for diseases such as Alzheimer's, Parkinson's, cystic fibrosis, motor neurone disease and Huntington's.

Until now the process of creating an early embryo by putting human DNA into an egg that has its nucleus removed – known as therapeutic cloning – has been carried out using human eggs from consenting IVF patients. However, these are in short supply and success rates have been low.

Chinese scientists have shown it is possible to harvest stem cells from embryos created by transferring human cells into rabbit or cow eggs.

http://xs511.xs.to/xs511/07025/discus2.jpg (http://xs.to)

If I was that discus thrower, I'd be pissed.

The public will be asked whether scientists should be allowed to create hybrid human-animal embryos, regulators have announced.
for what purpose?

sometimes science scares the shit out of me . . .

for what purpose?
"....to produce embryonic stem cells - the body's basic building blocks that can grow into all other types of cells."

To be honest, I don't get it why you need to create hybrids to produce embryonic stem cells.

Chinese scientists have shown it is possible to harvest stem cells from embryos created by transferring human cells into rabbit or cow eggs.

Why not just harvest human embryos?

Create an unethical issue to solve an unethical issue?

Sounds silly.

It's ghoulish and a bastardization of life and humanity.

It's truly science run amok.

Why not just harvest human embryos?It might clog the toilets and also cause more silly arguments.

Approximately 10,000 human embryos, which did not properly implant / attach to the uterine wall, go daily into US toilets. They could be caught by some clever filter, which “swings away” except when females* urinate, but that is no doubt against their "human rights" :rolleyes:

All we can do is recruit “right wing believers” to pray for these souls before they die in the sewers.
------------------------------
*I volunteer to work on design and testing of the automatic sex detection camera system.;)

PS to Spurious: You must stop asking these tempting questions or people will think you are just my "straightman."
For another current example of you doing this, see: http://www.sciforums.com/showpost.php?p=1262758&postcount=68

Poll's question is:

Hybrid embryos are a good idea.

No box is provided for the simple answer, YES, so I can not vote.

No one is suggesting any creature as complex or as sensate / sensitive as an ant or amoeba* be created. What is being suggested it that mankind may learn how to cure many terrible diseases of man (and dogs etc. for that mater). Thus, greatly reducing suffering in sensate creatures, including man. If opposed to this, explain why; but don’t waste your time trying to explain to someone who is suffering.
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*Your city water company kills them by the “zillions” every second.

It won't make a damned bit of difference how we or anyone actually feels about this scientific study/research, it's gonna' be done anyway, by someone somewhere.

Which makes me wonder ....has any scientific research ever been stopped by some silly ethical or moral problems with it?

Baron Max

I would think this would be more controversial than cloning. Basically, we're creating a new species; but I find nothing wrong with either. It's exciting!

When you mix the superior with the inferior, you produce a bastard medium that denigrates the former and raises the latter.

It is a moral atrocity that befouls the essence of mankind.

It is a moral atrocity that befouls the essence of mankind.

Hmm, I think the "essence of mankind" has already been befouled long, long ago ...probably like 10 seconds after the first ape stood upright on the African plains! :D

Ya' noticed, didn't you, that I didn't even bother to ask what the "essence of mankind" actually is. I mean, I can just imagine the grandiose bullshit that one might type up for it! ...LOL!

Baron Max

Of course! That is why we use such things, so we might be given a chance to do so.

But no, this is a rather revolting practice, as it degrades man.

Poll's question is:

Hybrid embryos are a good idea.

No box is provided for the simple answer, YES, so I can not vote.

No one is suggesting any creature as complex or as sensate / sensitive as an ant or amoeba* be created. What is being suggested it that mankind may learn how to cure many terrible diseases of man (and dogs etc. for that mater). Thus, greatly reducing suffering in sensate creatures, including man. If opposed to this, explain why; but don’t waste your time trying to explain to someone who is suffering.
-------------------------------------------
*Your city water company kills them by the “zillions” every second.

The first option, irreverently worded though it is.:)

The first option, irreverently worded though it is.:)OK I will vote "first option" if it needs support.
A few minutes later by edit:
First option well in the lead, but voted anyway as I noted Baron Max has voted twice -once for each of the last two options. How is this possible? I will try to vote again also.
still later by edit: I think you must mark several votes the first time as after voting, the system does not give the vote choice again.

OK I will vote "first option" if it needs support.
A few minutes later by edit:
First option well in the lead, but voted anyway as I noted Baron Max has voted twice -once for each of the last two options. How is this possible? I will try to vote again also.
I think you must mark several votes the first time as after voting, the system does not give the vote choice again.

haha! not possible now, its a multiple choice poll, need to select before voting.:p

I think I may have been in error in saying "no sensate creatures are to be produced from hybrid embryos." (Must have been tired and mainly annoyed that anyone would want to limit this type of research - force his or her morality on others - when I posted that)

I knew hybrid mice, perhaps cats etc., have been made years ago. I think by "fusing" two embryos or perhaps only a set of cells from one added to that other in approximate the 64-cell stage. I have seen photos of mouse (cat? - memory not clear - only the idea still clear) where part of animal was with some part of body of one color skin (or fur?) different from the rest of body. Main point of these studies as I recall was to lean more about tissue differentiation (it all comes from one egg).

This has caused me to offer $1000 for a strand of Baron Max's hair - We will use it to clone him but with some hybrid so he has hands and face and feet with high pigmentation - (with clothes on looks like a black man). Next we capture the current BM and extract his brain (some may think that impossible, but I think he has one) for transplant into the new hybrid BM body.

This all in the interest of social science - we can learn if it is possible to change ones set of beliefs about racial inferiority etc.

I think I may have been in error in saying "no sensate creatures are to be produced from hybrid embryos." (Must have been tired and mainly annoyed that anyone would want to limit this type of research - force his or her morality on others - when I posted that)

I knew hybrid mice, perhaps cats etc., have been made years ago. I think by "fusing" two embryos or perhaps only a set of cells from one added to that other in approximate the 64-cell stage. I have seen photos of mouse (cat? - memory not clear - only the idea still clear) where part of animal was with some part of body of one color skin (or fur?) different from the rest of body Main point of these studies as I recall was to lean more about tissue differentiation (it all comes from one egg).

This has caused me to offer $1000 for a strand of Baton Max's hair - We will use it to clone him but with some hybrid so he has hands and face and feet with high pigmentation - (with clothes on looks like a black man). Next we capture the current BM and extract his brain (some may think that impossible, but I think he has one) for transplant into the new hybrid BM body.

This all in the interest of social science - we can learn if it is possible to change ones set of beliefs about racial inferiority etc.


I have a feeling the Baron's bark is worse than his bite.:)

I have a feeling the Baron's bark is worse than his bite.:)Me too - but he and I like to have fun at the others expense. It may not be obvious, but I like the Baron - no hypocrisy from him and makes his point in few words (I really need to learn from him on this.)

Baron Max keeps it real.

it degrades man.

I like to think of it as upgrades.

Wouldn't you like a set of wings?

Do I have to have hollow bones and have an anus-vagina/penis combo?

If we're talking about emptying out the eggs of other species and putting human genetic material in them for cloning, that's not a real hybrid.

Do I have to have hollow bones and have an anus-vagina/penis combo?

Hm, well, how badly do you want to fly?
I bet we could get you some cloacal spurs, too.

If we're talking about emptying out the eggs of other species and putting human genetic material in them for cloning, that's not a real hybrid.

It isn't? So ...what is a hybrid then?

Baron Max

Aren't they using this sort of technology to duplicate neanderthale DNA? I've heard that they'd entered parts of the DNA in microbes, to make duplicates of them. So they didn't have to destroy a other bone/teeth evrytime they wanted to do a experiment.

Besides some virusses are higly capable to repair damaged DNA I wonder what would happen if you put all highly damaged DNA in there and see if the virus cell could put the strands back together. It would be nice to own a dingo

It isn't? So ...what is a hybrid then?

Baron Max

A hybrid would be when nuclear DNA is combined and viable offspring result. A human would not be genetically different if he were born of human nuclear DNA inserted in a cow's egg, unless something went wrong.

Update:
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/health/6760707.stm

Medical research using hybrid embryos that are a mixture of human and animal is "vital" in the fight against disease, scientists have said.

The Academy of Medical Sciences said it backed the draft Human Tissue and Embryos Bill allowing embryos that were 99.9% human and 0.1% animal.

Under plans, it would be illegal for embryos to grow for more than 14 days.

The report says that, in the future, the "true" hybrids - containing more animal DNA - may be vital for research.

However,

There were currently no scientific reasons to create true hybrid embryos, Mr Bobrow added.

"However, given the speed of this field of research, the working group could not rule out the emergence of scientifically valid reasons in the future."

:D

A hybrid would be when nuclear DNA is combined and viable offspring result. A human would not be genetically different if he were born of human nuclear DNA inserted in a cow's egg, unless something went wrong.

I wonder a chimps DNA is 95% similar to a human if only those different 5% would be altered to match a human would the object be a human because it has a 100% accurate human genome or would it be a chimera because effectivly 95% of his DNA had not have been contributed by a homo sapiens

Hybrid embryos are tasty.

Voted yes because it has every possibility of leading to a cure for some terrible disease or other with no actual drawbacks.

voted yes for research on cure disease and make some animals more resistant to climat changes or polution (isnt already done for bee's?)

but remember to not get more intelect and leggs to a White shark or we all will regret it lol :p

Eh, as far as I can remember, they was an uproar of this nature in China when scientists wanted to breed a human with an ape. The authorities promised to scratch the experiment after protests from the public, but some other scientists hinted the experiment went on. Anyone remember? I personally don't like the idea, but if it has to be done, then I'd prefer all evidences be desotroyed after use. Not every scientific creation is entirely awesome, borrowing inferences from Nuclear bombs, Frankenstien(okay, its fiction), and breast implants.

your talking abouth that chinese rabbit?
anyway Ilya Ivanovich (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ilya_Ivanovich_Ivanov_(biologist)) was a far bigger nut then those chinese guys

Introducing a new species to the enviroment. How has this ever worked well?

Introducing a new species to the enviroment. How has this ever worked well?

Did you read the article? The hybrid embryos will be destroyed before they reach a state you would recognise as alive. Nobody is making ten-legged chickens or flying snakes. It is for research into genetic diseases.

Did you read the article? The hybrid embryos will be destroyed before they reach a state you would recognise as alive. Nobody is making ten-legged chickens or flying snakes. It is for research into genetic diseases.

Yeah, so? The poll question was if hybrid embryos were a good idea. NO! It won't stop there. If the UK can do it so will other countries.

It starts with a goat/sheep that has better wool, then a camel/cow that can tolerate drought, then there are new species everywhere. Its not what this planet can tolerate.

Any reason why not? It's just a faster form of selective breeding. Woolly sheep do not appear in nature, they only exist because of selective breeding.

Besides, these hybrid embryos are not even able to be born into things like that. They just wouldn't develop because of their genes. They are used to research treatments for Alzheimers and uncountable other horrendous genetic disease. If you're against it, then please explain why to the sufferers (and their families) of those diseases

...They are used to research treatments for Alzheimers and uncountable other horrendous genetic disease. If you're against it, then please explain why to the sufferers (and their families) of those diseases

You don't know me and I can tell you, you're preaching to the choir.

Stem cell research, no problem. Hybrid embryos? Nope. It won't stop there.

Stem cell research, no problem. Hybrid embryos? Nope. It won't stop there.

I'm not fond on little mutants or rich people who will make a groserie list on how their small sprout chould look and behave like.
However the rechearge seems relevant considering certain goals like cure against alzheimer etc.
I'm pro

Hybrid embryos could work. We don't really know what they (the military) are doing behind closed doors. Making a superhuman with super intelligence to make super weapons.