Okay folks, this is it, this is the place to find out all you ever wanted to know about the opposite sex!

Men are from Mars, Women are from Venus.

Questions will be asked and answered, opinions will be given and statements will be made. Bring 'em on!

Dear Abby,
My first question to the men-folk -
After all those years of women's liberation have the men decided that women don't need to be fussed over anymore?

I usually fall straight in love with the guy who gives me his seat on a train, or holds a door open for me to go through first. I miss galant men.


Have we lost the things dear to us by trying to get paid the same amount for doing the same job? That's what I think the women's lib was all about. We may not be as physically capable of doing things but intellectually we wanted to be treated equally. Somewhere along the way, the good manners thing got screwed up.

I suspect I'll probably get beat up over asking this question - you know, "the women asked for it, now they have to live with it" type stuff. But are there any of you out there who like to do the gentlemanly thing still?

I eagerly await your replies.

Cheers
Teri

:) :) :)

The problem (in my humble opinion) is when people go to extremes with this issue. But at the same time I believe everyone is free to have their own opinions. If you want to be treated as an equal and that means to you not having a man open the door for you just because you are a woman then that's fine for you and you should look for a man who feels the same way. If you want to be treated the way our grandmother's were when chilvalry was more "popular", then by all means, find a man that will give you that. I fall in the "in betweens" and have trouble understanding what all the fuss is about. What's so bad about having your cake and eating it too so long as you share it with the person you are with?

If a guy won't be gentlemanly and also allow me to explore my potential in male-dominated fields then he isn't the kind of man I want. I'm not a feminist but I'm not a doormat either. I enjoy talking with men about important issues and also enjoy feeling protected by them (but not to the point of suffocation). That's just me, I can't speak for the rest of the women out there. I know women who don't like it when a man opens the door for them but I'm not one of 'em. Call me old-fashioned but in a more modern way. :confused:

I can also play the "traditional" role (you could say) without feeling that it inhibits my other talents or belittles my existence. Does that make any sense? I feel that things can only inhibit you or make you feel inferior when you let them. I don't feel that I have to do certain things for a man just because I'm a woman and that's what I'm SUPPOSED to do...I do things for my man because I WANT TO and it makes me feel good to do something nice for someone I love and appreciate. The same goes for him, he doesn't do things because I'm a woman and he HAS to act a certain way with me....that would make him "fake." He does things for me because he knows I appreciate them and wants to make me happy (and fellas, when your woman is happy everything else falls in place, don't it? :p :D ;) :o hehe! I'm joking of course!).

My relationship isn't perfect but it's working itself out beautifully with communication. We act as a team and as friends who want the best for eachother. He cooks when I don't feel like it and he does, I cook when I feel like it and he doesn't and we order take-out or go out to dinner when both of us don't feel like it or hell, compromise and split tasks if we both want or don't want to cook and can't afford to go out to eat. We both clean-up and do laundry and both play the drums (male-dominated instrument) and hold steady jobs with equal income. Compromise, what a concept! :rolleyes:

I guess PART of the trick is to find someone who views their role like you view their role and vice-versa. In my opinion, having it both ways just makes life easier for both women and men. You can't have discrimination against women and you can't have reverse-discrimination against men. If couples just treated eachother like team-mates instead of opposing team players, I think more would get done. But that's just what I think. ;)

I think Ana summed it all up, I really agree with her. Most of the time I do hold doors for girls, but with me it just feels...awkward, they smile and whisper and thank you and it feels nice but just awkward. If a girl ask like an extreme feminist and pushes me out of the way or something I'd leave her alone, but I bet if any of you ladies out there just didn't like it when men held the door for you then asking nicely to stop would be fine or just walking behind them when it comes to doors. It's hard to be a gentlemen around a feminist and really disconcerting if you feel like you've done something wrong.

Now for my questions:

-(I won't make a generalization) Why do some women like assholes or very unnattractive, stupid, lazy completely worthless men? I live in Maine and these guys come a dime a dozen.

-(This is racy and in my opinion a stupid question so I guess I'm just curious) Why do some women like being 'fondled' in public? I saw just a few hours ago a kid my age grab a girl my age's boob, she just laughed and jumped away while I pretended I didn't see. The girl is kind of a slut (It's her reputation) but it really isn't a good idea to do ANYTHING like that to someone you aren't going steady with, right? Tell me the truth here: Do you ladies like being fondled by men who you're not...intimate with?

I think that's it for now. I hope I didn't make you gasp and smash your computer when you read my second question (anyone)!

The intergender situation in Maine seems neanderthal...:D

The women who are drawn to the kind of men you described are either the same way themselves or suffer from very low self esteem. Or maybe other kinds of men aren´t to find in Maine??? :D

About holding doors, I always hold up the door to the person that walks behind me, so that they will not get it slapped in the face or something, and I appreciate when others do the same thing back.
But if anybody, even my personal psyk-yogi, fondled my boobs in public, they would get smacked!!! What kind of animal behaviour is that?

But I remember when I was 14 and bicycled home from a friend and a classmate came up beside me on his moped and just grabbed my boobs and laughed. I was shocked!!! :eek:
So I guess it´s just something teenage boys do for some strange hormonal reason...without thinking obviously. And the girl that is the target to this insanity is probably too shocked to think clearly herself, and may or may not laugh. I didn´t. I yelled in rage...

Team mates? Yes, that is good.

...but I would like that men ...would become more like...slaves...to women...:p

Shrike:

If we are going to view this as a social-norm kinda thing then we'll have to say that in this country, the above situations aren't completely "normal" in truly healthy relationships.

Healthy relationships aren't composed of PERFECT people....but somewhat psychologically and emotionally healthy and stable people. But maybe I'm complicating things too much.

SOME women are attracted to "bad boys" because one or a combination of the following (in no particular order and most likely not all of the reasons will be listed---add if you want):

1) They want to play mommy and feel the need to take care of a reckless man in order to feel needed

2) They get a rush out of being in a dangerous situation

3) They see "potential" in these men and feel that if they can CHANGE them for the "better" then it makes them very special women (above the rest who weren't able to change them) *note: for men it would be falling in love with a bitch--makes you feel special they would pick you to be their lover when they have such "high" (possibly unrealistic) standards in their men.

4) They have low self-esteem and subconciously don't feel worthy of anyone who isn't going to mistreat them (sort of like speaking one's belief about oneself and how they should be treated into existence, eh?)

5) Their parents might have had a similar relationship and they are falling into that pattern

6) They are addicted to the relationship's extreme dynamics.....make love, fight furiously, make up by making love furiously-->pleasure (pleasure association with bad relationships)

7) Hell, I dunno.

Question #2

SOME women like being fondled (maybe not in THAT extreme form) in public because they feel that it shows the rest of the world that they are wanted and therefore desirable. Some women just simply don't mind kissing in front of others...they are just showing affection and feel comfortable enough with it to show their love in public (I'm not talking about having sex!) and don't care what others think.

This young "lady" you mentioned seems like she could either be trying to fit in and be popular with the boys (she is trying to get validation from boys---and the attention she is getting from them is doing that). She could also seem to be laughing when she's really embarrased and doesn't know how else to express it---doesn't want to be seen as a "prude"--who knows. Maybe she's got family problems and was abused by someone at an early age. Maybe she's a slut. I don't know...ask her. :rolleyes:

Chivalry is not dead some guy's are just arseholes, that or there afraid of a femenist going off at them.
Me, i'll hold the door for a girl, even if it appears obvious thats what i'm doing, if they have a problem with it,(and they never do) I wouldn't give too stuffs cause I think their being stupid, its like "thats fine lady, next time I'll slam it in your face you unappreciative bitch":D (well probably not);)
What I find more difficult is when i'm on the train and I have a seat and an old man or lady is standing, some are quite happy to be offered a seat while others, particulary men will be offended.
Ana, what you said is what I feel are the essences to a good long lasting relationship, even the drums:D
My girlfriend is in no way musically inclined whereas everything in my life revolves around music, so while i'm sitting there either tapping out the beats to a song on whatever part of her body is closest she'll actually pay attention to what i'm doing and be held in ore cause I never fall out of time, its the coolest thing:p
every other girlfriend i've had has just asked me to stop cause its annoying.:D

Shrike, I've felt the same way you do before, especially when i was still in school, all the attractive girls went for the arseholes.
What you need to realise is that these guy's are only arseholes to you and me cause where competition, I bet these same guy's when alone with their girlfriends are just as nice as you and me would be, of course there are the few cases where the guy really is just a arsehole.
Ana couldn't have givin any better a reason for why these girls go out with arseholes I think she summed them all up perfectly.

OK, quick question.

I've always been one for the ladies.... ie: I'm very fond of them. I always open doors, give up seats etc.

The other day I met an ultra-feminist who was offended when I referred to her and her lesbian friend as a couple of ladies. Now, she was not offended by anything but the use of this word.

Lady= A well-mannered and considerate woman with high standards of proper behavior.

... go figure!:rolleyes:

Anyway, a question any girl should ask is why is a woman called a slut when a man of similar dispostion is called a stud?

... sluts are just affectionate ladies!

[Biggles exits stage to raptuous applause!]

Well, I'm one who holds the doors open in places like the post office. Doesn't matter who's coming, age, sex, race, ect. as I'm not in that much of a rush and it is the thing to do. I don't care what the other thinks as it is a responce that is to me normal. I don't even think about it. I haven't had anyone say, "I don't appreciate that" or anything to that nature. Usually, I will give a hello to go with it. That's how I was raised and how folks around there did.

I have noticed this tendancy for some of the ladies to go for the "outlaw" type. At times in my life I always wondered what was going on...

I can not answer for the ladies and what they feel. I have noticed that most women like their men to acknowledge their right to affection in public. By that I mean, an arm around the lady or holding hand in public or some such. There are exceptions to every rule of thumb and so it is here.

I am not the one to answer the "What women want and need" question. Just like anyone one else it varies from person to person. Observe, note, and pay attention. Find out.

Sometimes the realtionship goes stale. It happens. All you can do in the final stages is pick up your marbles and go home. But there is someone for every one and looking does seem to be the key. It always seems that when you are not looking is when you find what you're looking for. Maybe people give off the wrong body language when they are on the look, I don't know. But in my life it always happens that way.

BTW, now that you've mentioned Dear Abby....

Dear Abby,
My hsband cheats on me. He has cheated all our marriage.

All of our friends know it but they ignore it. They know he runs around on me and just pretend that it doesn't happen.

Heck, the whole town knows he runs around on me.

What should I do?

Signed,
Flustrated

Dear Flustrated,

Now that you're a New York Senator, you no longer have to put up with it. Dump him.

Signed,
Abby

Wet 1, Observe, note, pay attention.Well said.
One if not the only way to find out the answers we men want to know.

Ana, I think you are right, but it's not "SOME women", but "MOST women".
Listen to this, it is a strange thing that has been bothering me for quite some time.

A few years ago the girl that, at the time, I really wanted to marry left me.
The first months I lived like a zombie, but later I lived like an arsehole. I really did. Nothing and nobody really mattered to me at that point.
The strange thing is that wherever I went girls and women would flock around me and I felt like they wanted to be 'used'.
And that is just what I did. I was a player for about four months.

Before that time, and again after, I have been always a "gentleman". And I really do not get that much attention of women.
Also, I have had to warn some female friends (and family) for guys they feel attracted to. They normally don't listen "because he really is different", with the result that I have to comfort them when they feel used afterwards. These girls really are no 'sluts' and are intelligent.
I hope you can understand that I have grown somewhat angry with women for that.

Well, I have learned my lesson, even though it still puzzles me.
I remain a gentleman, galantly opening doors driving girls savely home, etcetera.
But if I want to meet a girl, I mimic the player, and get a lot of female attention. Afterwards Neb's words apply:
I bet these same guy's when alone with their girlfriends are just as nice as you and me would be
It works just fine.

Ana, you explained it wonderful.

As far as the asshole men, women go for, maybe it is the first impression and they think that this man is different. Because he behaves different. Not particular as an asshole, but different then other men do behave.

The most men are real ok and if there comes a slightly different kind of men around the corner, a woman thinks probably, that this man, because he behaves different, is nicer to hang out with.

Most of the times that kind of men are not nice at all and they treat you like garbage...
It is a real pity it has to go like this, for much hurt is done this way to as well men and women,
Men can behave like they don't care, but they care and hurt as well as women do.

Guess you have to treat eachother equal in any case and respect eachother. Then it will work out pretty good.

And listen well to what the other (your 'soulmate' in this life) has to say. It makes a difference.

And I like men who behave like gentlemen and open the doors, for I am only emancipated when it suits me well....;)

As far as standing up and give your seat to elder humans in busses and trains, I always give up my seat to as well older men and women. Or pregnant women and humans who seem to have problems by standing up for a longer time.

And yes, I open the door for humans if possible in stores the appartment I lived in and so on. Why not???:)

Excellent replies EVERYONE!!! I'll start thinking of a new question that stimulates such conversation.

P.S To everyone I'm sorry I haven't been online more but getting on the internet seems to have been a rarity this week-I can't get on at home and the seniors were taking these major tests so I couldn't use the computer labs. this might be my last post for a few days so just HANG ON tight!

Shrike, come on up with your questions.

Doesn't matter when you will be back at the Forums, you'll get an answer any way.

Hope your parents will give you the time to reply a little.:)

Talk to you as soon as you are back.

Nobody else who has to say anything or has to ask something? ;)

Everyone is talking about asshole guys and how they treat women but I've been wondering about what age group everyone is talking about. Once a guy is say late 20's he seems to grow up a bit. I remember the 'assholes' from being a teenager, but as I got older I realised that they were just immature boys who really didn't know how to act around girls or women. They were just as insecure as the girls were, but they had to put on the bravado for their mates and in doing so, acted the way we see as being an asshole.

Have I got it completely wrong?
I honestly don't know any men over 30 who act like that anymore, except maybe when they're really, really drunk... and the best thing to do then is walk away.

Cheers
Teri

Teri, there are men in this world who never seem to grow up and like to drown in their own self pity and do nothing else but hurting the woman they live(d) with.

Even if they are older then 40 years. Guess this kind of behaviour has become so much part of their lives, they can't or won't get rid of it.

And they don't have to be drunk all the time, it has become their 'natural' behaviour, for they act like this for such long time, they don't know how to change it.

And that is a pity for them and certainly for the women who have to live with such person. In daily live and even after they got divorced, they are haunted by them.

Do you have an explanation for this?

By the way, there are women who act exactly the same.....it are not only men.

Well I'm back for a limited time only, good question teri 2.

Yes, I think that there are probably just as many women assholes as there are men assholes.

Now onto defining assholes. People who don't treat anyone else the way they want to be treated.

Simple as that.

Shrike, the question which comes up with that, is how do you know how someone is treated right in the way he/she wants...

You can tell about that by just pay attention and look at a human you love very close. And listen very close to her/him. You can tell a lot about a persons feelings by looking in their eyes.

Eyes tell you more then behaviour. Because behaviour of humans is most of the time an outer 'image' of them to protect themselves for more pain and hurt that is done to them before.

It is always reflected in the eyes...take a closer look, you will see...

And pay more attention to what a person tells, listen close and don't interrupt, for then the person closes down before he/she themself knows it.

All result of this impatient behaviour of humans towards one another now a days.

Humans don't take enough time to really listen and look to eachother....rather sad...

Well said Banshee, the eye's reveal a lot about what a person is thinking, its very easy to hide how you feel with the expression on your face but the eye's always give you away.:D
I have a question for both sexes, how do you know when you've found 'the one'?, if anyone has ever felt they've found 'the one' tell us how you knew they were it for you.

im "only" 15 and i hold the door open for the girls at school (except the evil ones) :) and i beleive in chivalry and honor. of course alot of ppl at school think im slightly mad even my teachers especially when i talk to myself and stare at nothing;) most of the guys at my school are iditots/jerks theyre rude to the girls and are just well..jerks.. anyways heres my question.

why do girls smile at you and whisper to themselves? maybe theyre plotting against me but i doubt it. they just act weird..

btw heres the formula proveing some girls are evil..you have to r-click on it and click show picture http://www.geocities.com/acerbicrook/girlsevil.gif

Im a man, i am 25 yrs old, and i live in the twin cities of minnesota...I find it hard to find a "soul" mate or someone i would like to settle down with or even date for that matter. The reason is because i find that most women i meet are superficial...Oh how i dislike that persona. Like for instance i hear women saying quite often: that person is really fat or that jacket looks horrible or that guy is a wierdo...things like that...First off i think people should treat others how they themselves would like to be treated (the golden rule!) even if the target person in question isnt around to witness all this bad stuff. Second: looks, clothes, people that are different from yourself...these things dont matter in the big scheme of life...I'm all about conscious, creative, and intelligent thought...and many people i meet dont show it by their actions.
In regards to the idea of A "soul" mate...Can there be only one? Im sort of traditional but i contradict that with other thoughts that come to mind. You date one person at a time, you marry one person and stay with only that person. with this state of affairs it is highly unlikely that you will even be able to find anyone you are willing to date because they are all "taken" ...If i was seeing a women and she was also dating someone else and didnt tell me about it i would be kind of pissed and sad. But should i blame her? hmmmm...Anyways, I have so many other things i would like to add, but i am rambling on far too long...ill do it later...until then nudge nudge wink wink say no more!

Welcome FluXlog,
I posted a reply to your thread, but it suddenly dissapeared. it said you'd better take it to te "Dear Abby" thread. And so you have.
BUT this forum is not a dating service (or ... eh guys did I miss something major here???;))

Anyway, hopefully you will enjoy reading and writing posts here. I And I hope you find your soulmate.

Merlijn

P.S. I don't think I would like the mind-reading stuff. Not because of some sacret mystery, but because of the feeling of complementarity. What are your thoughts about this?

That was easy...if they smile at you and then whisper, they LIKE you!!! :D

Acerbus, you really sound like a sweetheart.:) Stay that way and you will be doing alright. At your age the (young) women will come and go probably, in the first time...But I am sure you will find a nice woman, only for you, in the end...

FluXlog, be very welcome at Sciforums.
And you know, sometimes you just know that someone is the right one. And if you've found that feeling of real love to some woman, and she does have the same real feelings of love towards you, you don't have to be afraid she start fooling around with some other man.;)

Where do you men get that silly idea of women cheating on you? Is it because they themselves don't trust themselves on that particular point?
And then again, you meet men/women and fall in love with them from the time you are a teenager. So it can take some time before you find the one and only...

Bebelina you are a joy to every man, which one wouldn't love you.:p
Tell me and I am coming to hit them for you.;)

Just be good to the opposite sex men and women, treat them like you want to be treated yourself...big chance you find the right one, eventually.

Mistakes occur in every humans love life, that is just the way it is. Guess you learn from it, how much pain and hurt it may bring sometimes.

Behave yourself towards others, men and women, for they all have feelings, no matter how the outside 'looks' and 'acts'...

so bebelina your saying i should run screaming from em?:D thanks banshee:) anyways i dont know how to act around girls. they act weird..make you feel like their pokeing at you..
one time i was walking down the hallway, this was last year,going to my next class and this girl ran up beside me and jumped up(im kind of tall) and hugged me..I have no idea why but the problem i have is the first thing i thought of was "danger" or some similar emotion i was about to take actionwhen i realized it was a girl (this all took like half a second) she just jumped down and ran off i was so shocked i didnt even look to see who it was..

You lucky guy... I wished that happened to me more often than it has in the past :D

Originally posted by Banshee


Where do you men get that silly idea of women cheating on you? Is it because they themselves don't trust themselves on that particular point?
...

Maybe for some the fear of their spouse cheating is an inner fear that they themselves can't be faithful, but in my case, and i'm sure that there are heaps of other guy's in the same boat as me, the fear comes from past experiences of being cheated on.
Also, up until now every girlfriend i've had has said, I've got more guy friends then girlfriends.
Now this is all well and good but what made me uncomfortable is how close they'd be with some of their 'friends'. I may have been a little paranoid but If i'm going out with someone then i'd expect that i'm the only one their cuddling up to.
Is this wrong?

Shrike, your golden rule about treating people the way you would like to be treated is also my golden rule. Sometimes when someone says something really horrible to you, don't you wonder whether they think about what they're saying? I know some people say things in anger that they regret later, but when that happens I know that on some level they believe what has been said. I like a good debate but I hate to verbally 'fight' with someone. I usually walk away and wait until the person can talk about it calmly. I also try to objectively look at my own motives or ideas to see if I'm being unreasonable.

Welcome FluXlog,
You're not the only one that dislikes the superficial. It's only when you begin to talk to someone that you really know what sort of a person they are and I wish more people would realise that underneath what may not be an ideal exterior, is a beautiful soul. Regarding soul mates, I don't know. I think because we change so much between our teens and middle age, at different times of our lives soul mates are bound to be different. Finding a soul mate is a very special thing and there have been times where I thought I had met mine but later find it wasn't to be. Maybe people should just enjoy the moments that matter and not expect too much of the other person. Heck, I don't know. I would love to be 'in love' again, but that hasn't happened for a long, long time.

Welcome Acerbus,
Banshee is right, you do sound like a sweetheart. You will still have many times ahead of you when your heart will do a flip-flop at the sight of someone you've fallen for.
Speaking from experience, I know that all that whispering and smiling happens on both sides. I know it's frustrating and you start to get paranoid about your own looks, but I think we all go through it. My advice is to just smile back and try to ignore the whispers. Later down the track someone will tell you what they were whispering about and you'll find it really didn't matter at all.

And Merlin, you never know. I'm beginning to hear of many romances starting on the web. So if you're in the market you'll be able to find out a lot about the people you're talking to through the forum. Actually I think it's easier to say what's inside you when you're not actually looking at someone. And I agree with you about the mind reading stuff; I think that would open up a can of worms.

Teri2,
I know. I was just making a funny remark. I thgought that would be clear. Sorry. Well, who knows, I may even find a soulmate here.
I too once lived under the impression I had found mine. (see my first post on the subject). Now I do not miss her much, however I really miss the feeling I had. The feeling of complementarity, I had a strange kind of peace in my "soul" when I was with her. Just like in the Greek philosophy.
What I meant by the remark on mind reading, was that I think it is better to complement than to become one. Since you'll be one in a sense, but there is still this ... erm I don't how to describe the feeling. Emotions are hard to capture in words, aren't they?!
I hope you all understand.

I refuse to believe in soul mates, I feel it makes too many people crazy in the search for their ideal partner.
If a soul mate is someone who shares everything in common that matters to the soul(this is how i'd define a soul mate) then i've found mine so many times I can't count.I've also known people that I would consider my soul mate but they didn't feel the same.
Its a frustrating predicament so i've abandoned the concept altogether.
Now i'm happy with someone (starting to become the theme to the thread) that will treat me the way they'd expect to be treated.

Also, I've asked 2 questions that so far haven't been answered
1: Is it wrong to be jealous of a girlfriend that has more male than female friends and is affectionate with them.?
2:Has anyone ever found someone that they thought were 'the one'?
2a: If you have (or haven't) how would you know?

Also, I've asked 2 questions that so far haven't been answered
1: Is it wrong to be jealous of a girlfriend that has more male than female friends and is affectionate with them.?
2:Has anyone ever found someone that they thought were 'the one'?
2a: If you have (or haven't) how would you know?

My thoughts:

1. If you are in love and in a serious relationship, this relationship should be built on trust. Without 100% trust there can't be a truly happy relationship(Just my oppinion of course, and i am single :p ). So, yes it is wrong to be jealous if you really trust her according to me.

2. Nope, not yet

2a. The definition of how to know if she is "the one" according to me: I would know. Simple as that. There would be no doubt that she was the one.

Thanks Daydreamer, in response to your answer to 2a I realise that when you've found the one you'd know, what i'm interested to find out is what makes them 'the one' or in other words what are you looking for in the perfect partner.

As to question 2 and 2 a: read my post and You know the answer.
The feeling of complementarity, I had a strange kind of peace in my "soul" when I was with her.
That's how I knew.
She left me because she was young and was afraid of getting married.

As to question 1.
I don't think "wrong" is the right word. But it's not optimal for your relationship.
Try to find out why you feel so jealous.
If she isn't affectionate with you, I would suggest finding out why that is. It may also be "just" the impression she makes.

And what you say about soulmates (" I feel it makes too many people crazy in the search for their ideal partner.") may very well be true. But you cannot deny that the entire culture is full of messages that say "Try to find your soulmate, the love of your life and you'll live hapily ever after". the message is everywhere.

Oh and to your answer to 1, I know you have to have trust and I feel I've been really trusting in the past, but you also have to earn trust, if you read my earlier post I explained the situation a bit better, but your probably right anyway.

Oki, i will try again :p

2a. You will know that you have found the one when:
A. All you want to do is be with this girl every single second. Just to sit beside her, hold her hand, or watch her smile.
B. You can COMPLETELY trust her. There is NO way she would be false to you, since she feels exactly like you do.
C. When you awake one morning and realize that the happiest moment in your life is when you awaken before her to watch her peaceful face, still sleeping, slightly smiling on the pillow beside you.
D.You know for a fact that you would love her exactly as much if you were blind or if you both were 99 years old.
E.When the slightest whisper from her lips is enough to make you smile.
F.If the single most important thing to both of you is to make each other happy.

6 points of theory ;) I just hope i'm right. Would be too bad to realize at 60 that there are no such relationships. But i am certain i will find mine. :D

And as for point 1: I too have had relationships where my trust has been severly broken. Sure it tore me apart each time, but still i firmly believe that no relationship is truly happy without 100% trust. So therefore i still go headfirst into every relationship with 100% trust, Sure, i will probably find myself at the edge of sanity with dispair many times yet. But one day i will be in a truly happy relationship, and really: it only take one success to be happy and infinatly many failures to be broken.

Thanks Merlijn and thanks again Daydreamer that what I was after, their also the things I use to gage if its the one.
Merlijn, The way you said "The feeling of complementarity, I had a strange kind of peace in my "soul" when I was with her."
Why I don't go for the whole soul mate idea is because I felt this before with each person I've been in love with.
So I don't believe there is just one person for you.

A girl has a boyfriend which doesn't attend the same instution as her and I. She has gone out with this guy for over a year, but we (the girl) are friends.

I'm starting to develope an attraction to her. We are good friends, and she likes me (though I belive it is plutonic).

This is so confusing I don't have an actually question.

I just need some womens' oppinions.

Hi Daydreamer,
I get the impression you are describing what it is like to be in love. And I really can understand Neb's reply. I have been in love more then once. But I only once had the feeling I tried to describe. The difference turned out to be too subtle for words.
But I do think it really is something different than being in love.
(There is still the possibility that I fooled myself, but I don't like to think of it that way. That would spoil my memories. Darn what is true - now I don't know any more)

If looking in ones eyes when asking a question, conversing, or otherwise gives you a glimpse at their true feelings and thoughts then what are we doing posting in this forum where we cannot see each other?...This could be considered a ludicrous source for information about these matters...Orrrrrr perhaps a flight away from our defense mechanisms that seem to jade things at awkward times.No telling the truth to the fullest in person or at the keyboard....Perhaps a sentience of one is our goal? Do you understand why i would like to read minds? I wish everyone could...No secrets, Everything in the open and nothing to get in the way...A mergence of all into one. No seperation whatsoever...Now thats love!



Did i get away from the original posted thread topic? In a way i did but thats when interesting things happen...

Do you understand why i would like to read minds? I wish everyone could...No secrets, Everything in the open and nothing to get in the way...A mergence of all into one. No seperation whatsoever...Now thats love!
I really would like to build a Borg homing-device. Maybe you can help me. :) I guess there would be a lot less lying and cheating when we all could.

Oh you men, why can't your girlfriend have good relationships with other men (as a friend!) and LOVE you at the same time?

I had more friends then girlfriends in my life, but no romances with them, just very good friends. We went out dancing and talked the whole night, without being romanticaly involved. Most of the time my girlfriend was with me and we (girlfriend and I ) were surrounded by good friends, which was a very good 'thing' in some cases.

Tell you one thing once happened to me. We were out dancing, late at night, in Utrecht and there were some very tall African men in there also. All of a sudden one of them came up to one of my friends and wanted to buy me from him. To take me with him to Africa. It was rather frightning, for the 5 of them, very tall Africans, were coming up to my friend because they had decided to take me away any how.
Well, I have one friend who looks like a bully ( big and strong) who was sitting a little in the dark. He stood up and came forward to them. He looked at them in his own grumpy manner and told them to get lost, very quickly before he would throw them out himself.
They were startled to see him so all at once and my friends were in the majority with him with them, so they went away...eventually.
So you see, it is not that bad to be surrounded by good (men) friends. And I could always talk better with men then with women. Had always one very good girlfriend, she still is, and a lot of friends.

Don't see the problem here. Why should a man be jealous of his girlfriend as he really knows she LOVES him, but is only with her friends to have fun and have a little good talk.

My former husband knew these friends very well and didn't have a problem with it. Never. And I stayed away for the night because I had to go by train and the last one heading home took off at midnight. Much to early, then the dancing and so on was just about to begin.
Then we took the early train in the morning at 07.00 and went home. My former husband was gone for work then and I had to start working some hours later, till 03.30 in the night, but that never has been a problem.

It is the way you look at it and handle it.

A lot of men think that their women are cheating on them as soon as they are friendly and closer to another man. That is not always true....
Perhaps you take a look from out this perspective. Nothing wrong with that...

And the women who tell you on purpose they've had so and so many boyfriends, well, I doubt it. Just to see if you are jealous,
If you are, they have it just the way they want because they want you, men, to be hooked on them and only on them.

That goes wrong in the end.

Well, my relationship went wrong also but not because of that, a whole different reason and not suitable for 'Dear Abby...'

im naturally paranoid about everyone... I guess thats just the way I am:) banshee is right. you can have friends and not have them be romantic. i have a "girlfriend" shes a girl and shes my friend we talk about all kinds of stuff.

Hi Merlijn

Couldn't agree with you more. I too have had many loves but still no one i could call "the one". The difference is really to hard to put in words. And that was what i meant with my first answer to the question:
I would know. Simple as that. There would be no doubt that she was the one.

Thats just the way it is. There is no simple way to describe it, you just know. I hope:p

The loves i have had has always been just amazing. I truly have loved them all. But i have always felt in every relationship that there was something missing. I guess that is what they mean in the movies:"you have made me a whole person". When you feel you have it all, nothing is wrong, nothing is missing that is what i imagine it would be like to find the one.

And banshee, i totally agree with you to. It is a lot easier to talk to my friends that are girls than it is with my male buddies.

I've been reading and can't remember who said what, but

Merlijn, sorry if I misunderstood your meaning in reply, sometimes it is hard to express things on paper when the look on your face would probably say it all. I hadn't heard the term complimentarity
before but I know what you mean now - you get along so well that you compliment each other, like two sides to a coin; at least I think that's what you mean.

Anyway.... I think it was Daydreamer who gave all those lovely reasons of how to know when you're in love and I agree 100 percent. It's when you love them more than you love yourself.

Neb, I think in most cases women seem to get along much better with men generally. It's because there's no competition in the romance department. She may have a lot of female friends too but probably because you're so keen, you've only noticed the men friends. I always had more male friends than women and I don't know why. Maybe it's because men seem to have more of a sense of humour than women. When I think of my close girlfriends now, they're usually ones I laugh a lot with, so maybe it's got something to do with that.

Hi thecurlyone, I think your problem happens all the time. It's like when you work closely with someone for a long time you get to know them so well that your feelings for them deepen. Although you haven't said whether you want to remain just friends I'm assuming you would like her to feel something more for you. Perhaps she is, and you haven't picked up the signals. You'll have to give us a bit more about how she is around you and maybe we can help, also watch how she is with her boyfriend, you might pick up signs of discontent on either side which would not be bad for you at all.

Hope some of this helps somebody.
Cheers
Teri

Well, there are enough women who understand as well men as women.

Guess age has something to do with that.:)

In your teens you just start to discover your romantic feelings and then with all the other feelings, both men and women have, about their awakening bodies it can be pretty confusing.

I think you have to walk the road in your own way. Try to feel what the other feels, what they really mean and think. What is really going on inside of them.

But that is difficult to do when you are also busy with school and keeping up the attitude towards friends and so on.

It will come...all in time. There is someone for everyone.;)

And be friends with eachother, men and women, not so hard to do, give it a little attention...

Acerbus, keep on the good way you are walking.:)

Thanks to everyone who helped with my dilema to do with girlfriends having more male than female friends.
It was a thing that bothered me when I was in high school with my ex girlfriend.
After my next 2 girlfriends said the same thing I told myself there was nothing to worry about.
When I left school I developed better frienships with some girls and began to understand what my past girlfriends were on about.
I just wanted to make sure I really didn't have to worry, or if there were any circumstances in which it could be a problem, from what you've all said I don't think so. HOORAY:D :D
The girlfreind i'm with now, well i'm her best guy friend as well as her boyfriend so its all good anyway.:D

I have a new question for everyone, mainly the males because it's got to do with what they would do.

Say you were injured in the groin area and could no longer perform normal sexual relations with a female, do you think you would still pursue romantic relationships knowing that you could never have children, or sex for that matter; or would you still like to be around women but never go further than friendship.

Can anyone answer this? Do you think it would be devastating not to be able to have sex anymore? And would you tell a women about it if you started having strong feelings towards her?

I'm generally asking the men, but if any of the women have known men who have had problems, I'd like the input.

I know it's rather a personal topic, but I would rather ask objective people who don't know each other questions like that because there is no connection between them.
Thanks,
Teri

This is a very hard question, Teri 2!

I have some diffculties imagining such a situation. I guess I enjoy sex too much and my mind is protecting itself.

I really like to lick... no I LOVE it. :o :D
But would I still like to get turned on like crazy when I couldn't get the O.? I wonder. maybe it would be too painful.

But I think I would still like to have a romantic relationship. And I guess I would tell the women I was starting get strong feelings for. But then again - I do have some trouble imagining the situation. Maybe when the situation is there -God forbid - things are totally different. Maybe I could not get over the anger or the sorrow.

Hahaha, men without sex? Can they live without then?

Come on men, tell me more...;)

Guess you can have a pretty good love relationship without sex.
It is the feeling of love toward eachother which is the most important.

If you really love eachother it can be very good. Even without sex.

Though I didn't find out yet myself. Good love life at the moment.:p

And then...there is always the rotten 'drug' called viagra..isn't there? ;)

More please about this subject.

Good question Teri.:)

Real curious about the reactions...

Originally posted by Teri 2
I have a new question for everyone, mainly the males because it's got to do with what they would do.

Say you were injured in the groin area and could no longer perform normal sexual relations with a female, do you think you would still pursue romantic relationships knowing that you could never have children, or sex for that matter; or would you still like to be around women but never go further than friendship.

...

Of course I could still have sex without my equipment, that's why god gave me a tongue I can touch the tip of my nose with and two sets of fingers...:D

No, really, I don't know about anyone else, but my enjoyment of sex is not solely based upon my own orgasm, in fact, the vast majority of my enjoyment comes from pleasing my partner. This can readily be done without the equipment down below. Maybe this is too explicit, but it is a point of fact that it is difficult for some women to reach orgasm solely by intercourse, therefor the lack of a penis is not necessarily a handicap. That's why there are toys out there that take batteries...:o

As to wanting to have sexual relationships with a woman, of course I still would. I might be more afraid that my injury would lead the woman to no longer be interested, but it wouldn't stop my desire for women in general. My sexual attraction to a woman does not have the least to do with the performance of my equipment, it is all about what I find attractive in the woman.

I would definitely tell her if I thought our relationship was leading somewhere, especially if she was interested in having children. If that was the case, then we would have to investigate things like artificial insemination or maybe in the future, cloning.

I can't bare to think about it, my life as I know it would be over.
I'm not saying i'm my main concern when it comes to sex, I get greater enjoyment when the girl is enjoying it.
Sure theres vibrators and dildo's but I don't think its the same for them, its nowhere near as intimate or romantic when you have to pull out something that constantly buzzes.
I don't think I would pursue any serious relationship, i'd just live out my frustrating excitence in solitaire, that way I can avoid any kind of temptation, come to think of it, I'd have to stay indoors and not see anyone cause theres so many beautiful women out there it would drive me insane.:(

You couldn't even wack off to relieve tension, good god:D

BANG!!! :(

Thanks for the answers so far, guys - and I'd love to hear some more answers too, but I want to give this thing another dimension.

Suppose you are incapacitated (by whatever means) and a woman loves you and you know it, and she pretty much shows that she would stick around no matter what, do you think you'd be able to commit to her if she's happy with the situation?

Keep in mind that the woman is thinking 'lifetime partner'; do you think you would do some soul searching before saying yes?

Seriously, do you really think your life is over because you can't use your penis? Is it really that important?

Not over, but not near as much fun :cool:

SeekerOfTruth, very nice reply. You know how to handle without your 'equipment'.

As far as the batterie material, available for women concerns....NO thank you, not in any way....Stupid inventions.

If you REALLY love someone and the feelings are good and loving towards eachother, it really must be possible to live without your male, penis, relief. You can try to find that relief in another way.

Just by being loved it is possible to come to a solution between the two of you.

Neb, you don't go to live in solitary only because of that....Do you?
Then you are all alone, such a pity. You get all cold inside then and you will not be happy any more...

Hope it will all work out for every one of you boys, now and in the time to come.

From what i've heard men are not nearly as interested in sex as the women are after the age of, say 40. I have also heard some horror stories about the fact that the male population loses the ability to have sex at a certain age. If this is true, i sure hope that EVERYONE are able to commit and love their partner in marriage even after this age(given, of course, that it is "the one" mentioned earlier). If this is not true for someone they are going to have quite a boring second half in life :p As i have said in my list:
D.You know for a fact that you would love her exactly as much if you were blind or if you both were 99 years old.
And besides this, i have to agree with the earlier answers: With tounge and hands you come a long way in bed. To watch the girlies moan in bed is just great.:D

Originally posted by Banshee
[
Neb, you don't go to live in solitary only because of that....Do you?
Then you are all alone, such a pity. You get all cold inside then and you will not be happy any more...
[/B]

No I wouldn't really, I can get satisfaction out of pleasuring the girl, but it would be a devastating loss.

"(From what i've heard men are not nearly as interested in sex as the women are after the age of, say 40.)"

I will be interested in having sex until i'm on my death bed, in fact my dying wish would be to have sex, it would be a great way to go.:D

You men shouldn't believe everything you hear.:)

Why can't you have sex any more after the age of 40? Rididculous!
It is what you yourself make of it and it is not true. If you have a good lovelife and you are not bored with eachother, you can have a good lovelife and sex til you die.

It happens often that man and woman are married for quite a long period when they are older then 40-45 years and have to work all day.
Then they come home, eat and go hanging before the television til it is time to go to sleep. And men are tired of working and the women are tired of working and/or keeping up the work in the house and with the children.
After 10-15 years of marriage the men and women are so used to one another that they go to sleep because they have to get up early in the mornig to go to work and take care of the house and children again.
Then the attention to eachother and keeping up with their lovelife gets in the background.
Sometimes you hear they have sex every Saturday or Sunday, because of that. Just sex, has nothing to do so much with love then I think.

Love has to do with keep on talking and paying attention to eachother, then your sex life will go smoothly til your death.

Unless there is another reason you can't have sex any more because of an illness, but then again, there are other way's to keep on having a very good love life without the actual deed of sex and satisfaction because of a penis.

There are very good examples in the above replies...

Try to love somebody...no one should stay all alone in this life.
Most of the time you find the love of your life while you are not looking for it...;)

Good luck and love to everyone...

Well said Banshee, sex is not love, people in love have sex, but thats not what love is.(Its just a great bonus):D
I don't know who thought you'd lose your interest in sex after 40yrs of age, maybe you already have lost the interest to be thinking like that.:p
As long as I enjoy sex i'll be having it, and as we all know sex gets better every time you have it.:D

After discussing the problems men may have without the use of their equipment, I wonder whether you guys would consider marrying a woman who admitted to you that she either doesn't want to, can't, or just plain will not have sex with you?

Would it pose a challenge of some sort? Say you've definitely worked out that you're in love (the true kind) and she cannot - for whatever reason - have sex with you, but says to you that she understands that you may have to find relief elsewhere.

You might be thinking if she doesn't want to have sex with you then she mustn't love you, but what about in the case where it's not a matter of choice? Do you think you could be with her for the rest of your life?

I'm curious as to how much importance men place on sex in a marriage. Anyone care to venture an answer?

Cheers
Teri

First, men tend to place a lot of importance on sex in marriage. Unlike women, for men, sex is one of the few, if not only, way to feel truly intimate with the one you love so to not be able to have sex would mean there would be very limited possibilities of intimacy.

Now by asking if the woman could not have "sex" with a man I need to better understand what you mean by "sex"? Do you specifically mean intercourse or do you mean any type of sexual contact whatsoever? I believe I could still have "sex" with a woman who could not have intercourse, after all, sex encompasses a lot more than just intercourse despite what President Clinton may think.:D

Now if it was just a decision on her part not to have sex, then I would probably not be able to love her because her decision would not consider my feelings at all, which would tell me that she is not in love with me.

If it was medically based, then I would still be able to love her and we could work out "sex" in some manner that did not necessitate intercourse.

Hummm ... No sex? Therefore, no children.

"Understands ... " Oh? Interesting.

"in love (the 'true' kind)" ... Even more interesting.

Tax advantages aren't that great ...

Hell, get thee to a psychiatrist! And fast!

Either that, or return her to the dog pound.

Take care ;)

Teri 2:
you may have to find relief elsewhere

You old romantic you....

SeekerOfTruth, I agree with you in this. Without any kind of 'sex' it will be hard to do to express your feelings of love towards such a woman.

Because you want to show your love and that contains holding and being intimate. Not especially intercourse, but eventhough a way of being intimate. Guess the woman must have this feeling also, 'cause it comes naturally with the feelings of love you have for the other. You just want to be as close as possible and I find it hard to understand that a woman can not be intimate at all with a man.

Medical reasons can play a part in having intercourse, but is no reason to have not a way of being intimate at all. There are more ways of being intimate and very close to eachother then intercourse only. Guess she can do something for the man to give him his sexual relief in another way.

Such women I find hard to understand. Do they really exist Teri?:confused:

It seems rather hard and cold to me. That is not real love...

I've heard the words "I'd be happy never to have sex again", more than once from women who have been married and have children. I'm pretty sure there are marriages where the sex life does not exist at all and I usually wonder why they stay together. I thought that maybe it's the comfort of being part of a family and not wanting to start all over again.

I couldn't imagine a marriage without any sort of affection, but I have seen people who are like that. Whether ithey stay together is for the sake of the children, I don't know, but I would think the children would have to suffer some sort of psychological effect from being parented by people who don't want to even touch each other.

This topic came to mind when I was with a married couple I know and watched them argue non stop the whole day. I couldn't wait to get away. I still can't understand why they stay together. The woman says that they guy threatens to do her harm if she leaves him, so she stays out of fear but still maintains that there is love for him underneath it all. Maybe you haven't seen that type of relationship and don't know what I'm talking about, but I assure you there are women who feel they have nowhere else to go. It led me to the conclusion that the woman was not showing affection of any kind, and the man's frustrations were turning him into a mean sort of a person. But I still don't know why he won't let her go if he can see that the marriage isn't working. Any ideas?

Cheers
Teri

Obvious ... They 'love' each other.

Take care.

I think I understand. Are you saying that deep, deep, down there is something there they neither of them can control (love) and that without each other they would be miserable?

So by all appearances they look miserable but are actually uniquely 'made for each other'?

Teri

BINGO!

Particularly if a parent of the opposite sex treated them that way when they were children.

Take care.

Teri, I guess these humans are bored with eachother and don't KNOW how to talk to eachother any more. Not to speak of being kind to eachother.

Obviously they lost contact and live both their own lives NEXT in stead of WITH eachother.

'Two lost souls swimming in a fish bowl...Year after year...Running over the same old ground...What have they found...The same old fears' little quote (slightly changed) by P.Floyd.

They are afraid to separate because they don't have a clue how to live on by themselves when they are all alone.

Big chance they stay alone and grow old all alone. That is the sad part of a marriage in which the love has gone and has become a routine matter. No more affection...just anger and painful words to eachother.

They've lost the ability to communicate and therefor their ability to love eachother.

It happens all the time, with so many, many marrriages all over the world. Because of the pain and lonliness they are feeling within that dead marriage, they start to argue with eachother.

What do they have left, but only that?? It is a way of (bad) communication...

I sometimes get the feeling that I've met my 'soul mate' but didn't recognise him at the time.

Does anyone else feel like that?
:(

I've been closer to feeling like I already know my soul mate but haven't recongnised them for what they are yet.

I don't know how old you are, but if you're still, say, under 20, do you ever get that flip-flop feeling in your stomach when you spot someone who just knocks your socks off?
(love at first sight and all that)

I'd love to find that again. But since I don't think I'll find it I wouldn't mind hearing from anyone who's just experienced it.

I'd be even more interested if I found out that turning 20 doesn't end that fire in your stomach when you meet someones eyes across a room.

Ah me.... said Juliette.

Bye now,
Teri

Teri, turning 20 doesn't stop that fire. You just run into Love while you least expect it...;) At any age. Age has nothing to do with feeling that fire in your stomach. It can happen to you today.

Good luck. :)

Back in '95, at the tender age of 62, I flipped out on a sweet young thing of 56 ...
And I mean really! Didn't work out the way I hoped it would, but that's life, and it
was a great roller coaster ride that surprised the hell out of me because I didn't
think I still had those feelings in me.

Six years later we're still friends, talk or E-Mail each other at least once a day and
enjoy each other's company when we get together to do something, almost like
it is between my ex and me (we've been divorced almost 30 years now) except
that Nor is more fun most of the time. ;)

Take care.

Teri 2, i'm 21, and yeah I still get that flip flop feeling when I see someone, or more usually when I meet someone for the first time and theres something about them that you just can't resist.
I had that feeling for the person i'm with now,thats why even though nothing happened between us immediatley I knew it was only a matter of time, and hey I was right:D :D
The mind and body may grow old but as long as your still young at heart you'll still get that flip flop feeling when you fall in love.:)

Yeah...That is what I mean.:) I am 41, but feel like sweet 16.
Just stay yourself and the age doesn't count that much. It is your own inner feeling that counts.

Or exactly as Neb says...Stay young at heart.;) It can happen to you at any age, if you are least expecting it.

Look at Chagurs story. Don't you think that is great? Never give up and don't shut yourself down for Love, for you will find it...

I don't know if what I found was 'love' ... but it sure was/is fun. :D

Teri2,

I am 37 and there are times, albeit rarer today than when I was younger, that my heart "flipflops", though for me it tends to feel more like my heart, and time itself, stops for a brief second when seeing or meeting someone that I later feel totally attracted to.

And it is definately not sexual, that's a whole different moment:D

Sorry I haven't been around (mean teacher giving little children final exams---hehehe bwaaa haha!):mad: :D :p ;) so this is belated but what the heck...

Okay, you want the definition of a-hole? Now granted this may be a biased definition because you really do have to consider culture clashes....but for the most part, my ex pretty much has his face plastered all over the definition of an a-hole.

How 'bout this? On our first date, he called at the last minute to ask me out and stupid me said "okay, sure" ---a decision I totally regret (although being with him taught me what to avoid in men and also how NOT to treat other human beings). He comes to my house, doesn't turn off the engine, honks the horn and we go off to a dollar movie. When we are getting off the car, I was just waiting to see if he would open the door for me (my ex-ex actually told me to get back in the car so he could be the gentleman) and he starts laughing so loud people in the parking lot start staring at him. Then he said, "you want a red carpet as well?" Okay so that was funny but hell, on a first date it was really awful. He takes 6 months to define our relationship as official (I was 7 years younger than he although he was the immature one, in my opinion). He then begins the process of "grooming me into wife material." I of course go into a deep depression over the death of a friend of mine and start to go into a self-destructive thought pattern of "I hate myself, no one could ever love me" thanks in part to my boyfriend pointing out all my faults day in and day out. He called it "bettering one self" and I of course, bought it like a moron.

He told me if I didn't help him clean his house then he wouldn't know if I was good enough to be his wife. I would clean his house and he'd inspect it to make sure I cleaned the WALLS with a wet cloth.....I f'n ironed his jeans and UNDERWEAR (now can we start calling him an a-hole? and calling me a chump?:mad: :p ). Then, it was making his favorite dish....it didn't taste quite like at his favorite restaurant. Then it was my hair....too long, I cut it, then it was too short, I was too thin or too fat, I didn't wear the right bra, my boobs were too big for my 95 pound body (he asked me if I'd consider a breast reduction--good grief!), my arms were too chubby when the rest of my body was thin (hey, no amount of toning can fight genetics), my ears were too big and thin (a trait my husband absolutely can't live without), my eyebrows needed more plucking (Mr. One Eyebrow himself telling ME I needed plucking! and yet another trait my husband can't live without), man, some of this stuff I've forgotten....anyway, a bunch of crap about my body....oh wait, then there was the time when he made me believe my eyes were partly crossed!!! :eek: :rolleyes:

Then he taunted me when I hadn't studied for an upcoming exam...."you're gonna fail....ooooh, you're gonna fail..." and proceed to asking me questions as if he were a live Government class test. Our first Christmas was awful. I was sick in bed for a week and he hadn't come to visit me yet....on Christmas Eve he said he didn't want to come over because I'd get him sick and he'd rather spend it with his parents (his words, not mine). He visits me the day after Christmas and hands me a cheap gaudy necklace (the kind that look like the stuff movie stars wear only they are five bucks)--and that's not what bothered me (really), what bugged me was that he said, "I know this is the kind of stuff you like....fancy shit." That pissed me off because I was poor (seriously people, I was poor....ramen soup and stale bread poor)....and being told I was materialistic when I had never owned anything nice or new in my life.....well, it hurt, what else can I say?

Get this. He actually followed me and listened to my phone conversations while outside my window!!! Yeah, I'm not paranoid. He'd follow me and then ask me where I'd been....the freak!

Anyway, one day, I snapped out of it....and was so incredibly pissed that I managed to turn the tables on him. After hearing him talk about how in love he had been with his ex-girlfriend and what a "B" she was, I decided to give him a dose of his own medicine right before dumping him. I tried dumping him before but he'd beg me to return....so then I started treating him so he'd end up dumping me...plus, not to mention make him feel what he'd been making me feel for so long. I'd break dates with him, I'd tell him I was too busy to talk on the phone, I'd stop kissing his ass, basically. I stopped the house cleaning and laundry business. I said he needed to get an f'n maid because he was a slob and I didn't want to marry a slob...he had to show ME that he was smart enough to care for himself. (Now why didn't I think of that sooner?!) I told him he was an ingrate, that he didn't know how to treat a woman and didn't recognize a good thing when he had one. I turned into a nightmare of a "B" and he loved it! He started sending me dozens of roses....all kinds of wildflowers, chocolates, called me every damned minute of the day, took me out to fancy places....sent me love notes and freakin' poetry....said I was more beautiful "than the moon"---funny, my looks hadn't changed much from before. He dedicated songs to me....holy crap he was a whole other person....but by then it was too late...too much damage had been done. It's as if instead of watering a plant, he poured caustic lye into the soil, and nothing would ever grow on that soil again. I didn't want to be a "B" in order to keep a man interested in me. I didn't want to be mean in order to get respect. I missed the old nice me and wanted someone who would appreciate me the way that I was. My ex didn't take it very well....he couldn't eat or sleep and I actually felt sorry for him so I would go to his house to watch him eat--the guy was so skinny he was practically anorexic.

A few years later, I met my now husband....who is the opposite of my ex (plus a hell of a lot better looking). But my ex still didn't get it. He followed me to my husband's house (when my hubby was still my boyfriend) and followed me back home---the idiot would actually WAVE from his car to say hello. I swear he had a scanner (now that he "wasn't supposed to be by my window" anymore) to listen to our conversations....he'd conviniently call when we'd have an argument---in short, he was a stalker. He found a girlfriend and all the weird crap stopped until a month before he asked her to marry him. He called and said he still thought we should get back together and this time.....THIS TIME to get married, because according to him, I probably left him because he took too long to ask me to marry him! :p :rolleyes: Oh, brother!

Okay, so how's that for an a-hole? Yes, you can tell me all you want and ask all you want about how I could have stayed with him. All I can say is that I was severely depressed (according to him depression was for stupid people.....he later "ate" his words....maybe that's why he couldnt' eat? was too full of his own regret? sarcastic little toot, aint' I?) Well, I run into him every now and then and I'm so glad I got out of that twisted "relationship" and found myself a kind man who not only is good-looking and sexy, but treats me just the way I like to be treated.....with respect and a lot of love.

The moral of this long drawn out story is:

Some of us may hang out with a-holes for a while, but eventually we wise up and find a good mate.

I just came up with another reason why some women may like a-holes.....they might want a one night stand without the trouble of having to dump the guy....he does the job for them. Could be...I dunno, I'm not for one-nighters.

Ana,

That guy would have screwed up my head so badly that I would never have recovered. You must be some strong woman to have survived that! Don't feel bad about not having the sense to see what was happening to you at the time - we all make those mistakes. Your definition wins the award for the A-hole!

What I'm very happy about is that you survived and you are now happy.

To the rest of you, thanks for regenerating my hope in possibly finding someone. They say there's a lid to every pot, but the lid I married 23 years ago didn't fit.

Thanks to all of you for cheering me up. :) It's a great Xmas present.

Love to all
Teri

Great post. I know where you come from in the way of being stalked by your ex.;) Until today...And probably tomorrow and after that and so on. Ignoring won't help a bit.

Have a good X-mas you all. Stay open Teri.:)