http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/americas/6560685.stm

:(

In other news, "deadly shooting" remains something of a pleonasm.

In other news, "deadly shooting" remains something of a pleonasm.

the 20 people who were just injured would disagree with you.

guns should be banned.

Damn these suicidal people. Why can't they just kill themselves?

not jerking at all actually.i just want this thread to descend in to that pissy arguement as quickly as possible so we can just avoid the foreplay.

you think gun control will prevent this kinda shit?

illegal guns will always be found.

i live in CANADA where there's way less guns. when i was 15 i was offered to buy a Glock. how would gun control have prevented me from getting that gun?

you think criminals buy their guns from a store?

the only thing that concerns me about this story is whether the shooter was you-know-what or not.

the only thing that concerns me about this story is whether the shooter was you-know-what or not.
What?

so because someone once offered you a gun that is always the case?
yes i think criminals buy guns from a store.
gun control would make guns harder to buy

Anyone think there is a connection?!

user: swivel
http://www.sciforums.com/member.php?u=23648
his location: palmyra, VA

location of the shootings: VA Tech at Blacksburg, VA
http://198.82.162.61/about/

his recent post was: suicidal
http://www.sciforums.com/showthread.php?t=65445

distance between Suffolk and Blacksburg is less than 100 mi

nickelodeon,
what i meant to say is: is it a terrorist attack or is it another Columbine

so because someone once offered you a gun that is always the case?
yes i think criminals buy guns from a store.
gun control would make guns harder to buy

street gangs don't get their guns from a store. and if some do, they have other sources too.

look im not saying i'm for or against gun control. i think the less guns the better. i'm just saying that making it harder to get a gun legally is unlikely to make it harder to get a gun in general. guns aren't sold in stores in Toronto, but if i wanted to get one i'd just have to make a few phone calls.

and im not even in a street gang or anything.

Holy sht :(

Lower casualties than your average Iraqi university, but less expected

Anyone think there is a connection?!

nope

What?
A terrorist. That's what. This guy reported shot over fifty people, thirty of whom are dead at the last report. Also, there are conflicting reports of a second gunman on the opposite side of campus.

This does not strike me as you average spree shooting.

I'm waiting to hear the race/religion of the shooter(s).

I'm waiting to hear the race/religion of the shooter(s).

Of course you are.
Terrorists can't be white/Christian.
Like the IRA, Tim McVeigh, Ted Kaczynski, Eric Rudolph...

i just so it on the news(i was taking my beauty sleep). horrible.

http://www.thisislondon.co.uk/news/article-23392898-details/'Over%2030%20dead'%20in%20Virginia%20campus%20shoo ting/article.do

Sky also reported one witness describing a gunman as Asian, wearing a vest with an "ungodly" amount of ammunition, firing at will. The student newspaper has quoted a victim who described the shooter as an Asian male in his twenties wearing a maroon hat and a black coat.

Reports suggested the massacre may have been sparked by a romance gone wrong with the gunman hunting down his girlfriend.

The name of the gunman was not immediately released, and investigators offered no motive for the attack. It was not immediately known if the gunman was a student.

isnt' user: swivel, asian?!!!

http://www.thisislondon.co.uk/news/article-23392898-details/'Over%2030%20dead'%20in%20Virginia%20campus%20shoo ting/article.do

http://img.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2007/04_01/virginiaAP1604_468x235.jpg

An unidentified man is arrested. It is unclear what role he played in the shooting. Sources in University Relations told the student newspaper there may have been two arrests

swivel....its'...

Shame, swivel was such a nice guy.

Some reports mention shootings at opposite ends of campus. There may have been more than one shooter.

Some reports mention shootings at opposite ends of campus. There may have been more than one shooter.

Yes, there must have been... Someone HAD to be Middle Eastern/Muslim!!:rolleyes:

Yes, there must have been... Someone HAD to be Middle Eastern/Muslim!!:rolleyes:
There are no Muslims in Asia?:rolleyes:

Anyway, I was simply anwering the question posed by nickelodeon.

Completely ruling out terrorism in any mass killing seems a bit absurd these days.

that would be really weird if it was swivel, hheh.

some people just go postal and take down others with them

Some reports mention shootings at opposite ends of campus. There may have been more than one shooter.
The BBC report mentions shootings at 2 campus buildings, 2 hours and several fields apart. Maybe this is causing some confusion.

Shame, swivel was such a nice guy.

What do you mean, was?

He's not dead - they arrested him (amazingly he didn't kill himself, nor was he killed by the police).

Watch the cell phone footage of the stuff, it's so hilarious http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2007/04/16/national/main2686709.shtml

Near the end you can hear a guy screaming.

Watch the cell phone footage of the stuff, it's so hilarious http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2007/04/16/national/main2686709.shtml

Near the end you can hear a guy screaming.

and thats why women dont like you.

and thats why women dont like you.

The only reason? :bugeye:

Virginia Tech is gonna be the most happening place now that it's a famous landmark, I mean think about it... people from all over are gonna wanna see where the most deaths in a shooting on school grounds took place. Hell I may even go back to college now that this is overwith... let's rock!

I'm wondering 1 thing... how could it take place over 2 hours? It's insanity! He just walk around shooting, occasionally stopping to drink water? You'd need to be blind an a fool to not think something was amiss.. oh well... perhaps they should've let the students graduate in a shorter period of time? Maybe it drove him nuts?

Watch the cell phone footage of the stuff, it's so hilarious http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2007/04/16/national/main2686709.shtml

Near the end you can hear a guy screaming.
I can't think of any good reason why you should have the opportunity to explain this further, but let's press on:

What's 'hilarious' about people being shot and running in fear of their lives?

The cell phone footage shows what the students actually experienced during that time. It was basically bangs and noise... nothing majorly terrible. This guy would've had to be an excellent shot to hit anyone that wasn't nearby. So this means basically whoever did see him either wondered what it was he had in his hand then went to take a closer look, or that he was just walking around concealing his weapon. I just think there's a certain hilarity about stuck up rich snobs walking around ignoring everybody and thinking "I'm going to graduate and make lots of money" only to later realize their circumstances were never in full control by them alone.

You walkin down the campus, it's nice and good, people all around, they think they're so smart... then bam.

The cell phone footage shows what the students actually experienced during that time. It was basically bangs and noise... nothing majorly terrible. This guy would've had to be an excellent shot to hit anyone that wasn't nearby. So this means basically whoever did see him either wondered what it was he had in his hand then went to take a closer look, or that he was just walking around concealing his weapon. I just think there's a certain hilarity about stuck up rich snobs walking around ignoring everybody and thinking "I'm going to graduate and make lots of money" only to later realize their circumstances were never in full control by them alone.

You walkin down the campus, it's nice and good, people all around, they think they're so smart... then bam.

You're a bastard.

I'm just saying... honesly.. how hard is it to disable a gunman?! All you've gotta do is keep something in their line of fire, a garbage can lid or something... or sneak up on them.. or throw something.. the guns dropped and you can beat them up. How could all those people not attack him and disable his mass attack? It's madness.... they really need to learn how to fight down there.

You're a bastard.

i heard worse things. i give him 4 out of 10 in my scale.

Mr. Spock it's only logical to conclude those who did get shot should've tried something other than running away, the further you run the more chance he has of hitting you because his range opens up.

the further you run the more chance he has of hitting you because his range opens up.

What the hell are you talking about?

Mr. Spock it's only logical to conclude those who did get shot should've tried something other than running away, the further you run the more chance he has of hitting you because his range opens up.

I just think there's a certain hilarity about stuck up rich snobs walking around ignoring everybody and thinking "I'm going to graduate and make lots of money" only to later realize their circumstances were never in full control by them alone.

You walkin down the campus, it's nice and good, people all around, they think they're so smart... then bam.

this isnt logical.

Their is something really really wrong with some of the american kids. could all those people not attack him DarksidZz if ever whe would be it the same room with a gun man then I would remind you on that whill I use the diversion to run away so the cops can come later to identefy your ... remains. Besides where were the cops 2 hours to arrive afther the first phone call :bugeye: No effens but what the hell.

What does that even mean, "his range opens up"?

I'm waiting to hear the race/religion of the shooter(s).

What possible difference would it make?!?!?!

He was a n Asian Christian. Does that make it better?

Opening range means he has more firing options, the closer you are the more limited they become, until, mostly he has one choice of where to fire. You can intercept his attack and disable him if you're smart.

That applies if you are within a few feet of the attacker only.

i'm just saying that making it harder to get a gun legally is unlikely to make it harder to get a gun in general.


Absolute rubbish. :rolleyes:

There's nothing anyone can do to stop a mentally ill person from carrying out a bloodbath. The only way to decrease the incidence is to convince the media to stop playing the events to the absolute hilt (yeah, right, never happen) so that other people on the edge don't get the idea. It would also be nice if someone who knew this young man had some kind of clue about what could happen and let somebody know about it.

Given the easy availability of automatic weapons and ammo, this sort of thing will continue to happen. Time was a guy might show up with a 38 special and maybe manage to kill one or two people before somebody stomped his guts out while he was reloading. Now you can set yourself up Matrix-style and keep killing until you either run out of victims or the cops stop you.

Sick people + highpowered weapons + open society = repeated mass murders

Reports suggested the massacre may have been sparked by a romance gone wrong with the gunman hunting down his girlfriend.

Romance should be illegal.

Thats horrible, I knew a few people who went to Virginia Tech, hopefully they're all ok...

Were they rich?!

Were they rich?!
No...why? I go to the University of Maryland, College Park so I know a few people who went to Virginia Tech...

Just NOW heard about this. I sleep late obviously. When I think of one person then 2 then 3 then 4 it is a staggering and sickeningly high death toll. Unbelievable. Virginia is a concealed carry state so anyone can walk in armed. I hate when they kill themselves. There's no closure. If shootings like this have to happen why not at fundamentalist colleges or white power camps? Truly a stunning crime.

I keep wondering what would have happened if everyone on campus carried a loaded gun and knew how to use it? Of all of the students, one surely would have had a good shot ...before the crazed gunman killed all those people.

Maybe instead of banning guns, we should force everyone to carry a gun for their own protection ...and train them to use it properly.

Baron Max

Just NOW heard about this. I sleep late obviously. When I think of one person then 2 then 3 then 4 it is a staggering and sickeningly high death toll. Unbelievable. Virginia is a concealed carry state so anyone can walk in armed. I hate when they kill themselves. There's no closure. If shootings like this have to happen why not at fundamentalist colleges or white power camps? Truly a stunning crime.

yep, he could have carried out his plan at that oral roberts university.

He could have strapped a ton of tnt to his body and blown up the whole campus. he he, death to morons.

posted by darksidZz:

All you've gotta do is keep something in their line of fire, a garbage can lid or something... or sneak up on them.. or throw something.. the guns dropped and you can beat them up.

It's like the shield of the 21st century! Why aren't armies equipped with garbage can lids? It would surely halt high-speed projectiles like bullets! The statement about range was also as sensible. Let's go target shooting sometime. Bring your trash can armor.

I keep wondering what would have happened if everyone on campus carried a loaded gun and knew how to use it? Of all of the students, one surely would have had a good shot ...before the crazed gunman killed all those people.

Maybe instead of banning guns, we should force everyone to carry a gun for their own protection ...and train them to use it properly.

Baron Max

You've gotta be kidding me?! If they did that there'd be even more shootings, anyone that thinks "hey, that guys a prick, let me kill'm" would find themselves loading a weapon and opening fire.

The cell phone footage shows what the students actually experienced during that time. It was basically bangs and noise... nothing majorly terrible. This guy would've had to be an excellent shot to hit anyone that wasn't nearby. So this means basically whoever did see him either wondered what it was he had in his hand then went to take a closer look, or that he was just walking around concealing his weapon. I just think there's a certain hilarity about stuck up rich snobs walking around ignoring everybody and thinking "I'm going to graduate and make lots of money" only to later realize their circumstances were never in full control by them alone.

You walkin down the campus, it's nice and good, people all around, they think they're so smart... then bam.

So you enjoy the fact that everyone who isn't 20 something year old virgin working at a dead end FedEx job, who might have a future ahead of them with financial success in it, is getting shot?

I have a poll for you. Darksiddz: Insensitive Asshole or Jealous Prick?

Opening range means he has more firing options, the closer you are the more limited they become, until, mostly he has one choice of where to fire. You can intercept his attack and disable him if you're smart.

Yeah, good luck with that, armchair commando. You're delusional if you think that garbage can lid is going to protect you from small-arms fire. You're not entirely useless though: your comments always give me a hearty laugh...

I keep wondering what would have happened if everyone on campus carried a loaded gun and knew how to use it? Of all of the students, one surely would have had a good shot ...before the crazed gunman killed all those people.

Maybe instead of banning guns, we should force everyone to carry a gun for their own protection ...and train them to use it properly.

Baron Max

Errmm ok. I would imagine the confusion and everyone drawing their guns and shooting who they thought might have been the shooter would probably result in a higher death toll.

What I keep wondering is why the gunman killed two people in a dorm and then two hours later killed the rest on the other side of the campus. Why did the university think he had merely left the campus grounds? Why did they not evacuate the campus when the first shooting occured or at least have them in lockdown from then? In short, what in the hell was the university thinking in allowing students to roam the grounds after the first shooting (in the dorm) without any knowledge of who had killed the two in the dorm or where he had actually gone afterwards. In hindsight we now know where he went.. he went to the other side of the campus and killed 30 more people two hours later. But why were the 30 people there in a classroom and not off the campus or in their dorms in a proper shut down procedure that might have ensured less deaths? Most had no idea what had even happened. There was no announcement made. That school should have been in lockdown when the dorm shootings occured. The result might have been a smaller deathtoll. What in the world were they thinking?

This is almost as many people dead as "rogue" American and British soldiers have deliberately massacred this year alone.

Let's see you wring your hands over that. :(

The Virginia Tech Massacre - Goverment murders "33" people to advance terror agenda item #...

It should not be difficult to get what point of that agenda is being advanced, right?
http://terror-state.blogspot.com/2007/04/transition-from-formal-democracy-to.html

---- Latest:
*** BREAKING *** CIA reveals sordid details about Virginia shooter
The 24-year-old man arrived in San Francisco on United Airlines on Aug. 7 with box cutters

This is almost as many people dead as "rogue" American and British soldiers have deliberately massacred this year alone.

Let's see you wring your hands over that. :(

Everybody dies. It's just tragic when it's people from a close allied nation. If only the gunman realised that there are acceptable places to conduct this sort of behaviour.

Errmm ok. I would imagine the confusion and everyone drawing their guns and shooting who they thought might have been the shooter would probably result in a higher death toll.

Guess what, Virginia Tech is legally a "gun free zone". This means that even people with conceal carry permits are not allowed to carry guns there. You might not that these mass shootings almost always take place in areas where law abiding citizens are not allowed to carry guns.

Interestingly, an attempt was recently made to allow conceal carry at Virginia Tech, but it was defeated. Had it passed, this whole thing might have gone differently.

Very Intersting point madan, I think that the death toll would have been much less had every one had a gun, and I think that was a ingonrant comment Bells

Unfortunately, kneejerk reaction will probably lead to increased restrictions on firearms ownership. For some reason, the facts, statistics and logic evade the "do-gooders" in positions of power... or, if you'll allow a little tinfoil moment, they purposefully ignore the truth in order to disarm the populace and gain additional control over them.

madanthonywayne: "You might [note] that these mass shootings almost always take place in areas where law abiding citizens are not allowed to carry guns.

Interestingly, an attempt was recently made to allow conceal carry at Virginia Tech, but it was defeated. Had it passed, this whole thing might have gone differently."

That's creative speculation. There are lots of places in the world where weapons are everywhere, and madmen still commit massacres. It's nothing but a fantasy to imagine that the world can be like a corny TV episode of "Gunsmoke" or "Bonanza", where the bad guy always gets it before committing more than an entertaining amount of mayhem, because every white-hat-wearing manly-man is packing heat. The closest reality today to such a state of affairs is Baghdad, Iraq- where killings even more indiscriminate than Virginia Tech are commonplace. The massacres of that less "news-worthy" species (sub-americans) will of course draw far less attention from CNN, while there is an American drama to repeat footage on, and repeat footage on, and repeat footage on, for the weeks and months ahead.

So as with our response to 9-11, America will continue to react to tragedy badly. There will be howls for our society to be made safer, as if it is not already as safe as an open and world-dominating society can be. There will be a new round of sensationalism, while tomorrow's notoriety-craving sociopaths lick their lips with glee and anticipation.

Te Jen: "There's nothing anyone can do to stop a mentally ill person from carrying out a bloodbath. The only way to decrease the incidence is to convince the media to stop playing the events to the absolute hilt"

Let those who are grieving and healing grieve and heal, just as thousands of others are grieving and healing, having endured experiences just as painful and tragic, in a thousand other human tragedies that were not hyped today. It would be more compassionate and prudent for everyone not personally involved in such tragedies to move on.

If a wider madness (including a political stampede toward authoritarianism) is not to flourish in America, we have got to learn to stop being ghouls, drama-addicts, and weak-minded deniars of life's inherent dangers. We've got to reject the concept of some righteous new national protectors from all evil. America is as safe from evil as is feasible, because the only truly effective national measures of prevention of such tragedies would become an even greater evil.

Strangely enough, I have to agree with Dark on this one.

Logically, if you're close to a gunman, you're probably just better off rushing him and trying to disarm, which at least puts him off balance for a few seconds. Turning your back on him and running just makes you a sitting target. Someone on a killing spree isn't about to be averse to shooting you in the back. Neither option is great, but the chances of survival are probably a bit better if you tackle the bastard.

From memory, in the Monash uni shooting, someone tackled and roundhouse kicked the gunman to the ground when he was switching weapons.

Also, I think a former U.S president rushed a dual pistol wielding assassin, and disarmed him. Luckily both pistols misfired...

Of course, you'd need to have a bit of nerve to do the above.

Bad news is my favorite news. The good news is that the worst news continues to make the best news. I'm so glad that the news has a proper massacre to work with. Wailing bedouins and Anna Nicole Smith just weren't doing it for me. Is anyone else looking forward to the 20 page special in Newsweek, complete with a map of the shooter's path?

To be completely honest, though, the media hooplah over these events really pisses me off. Not because they're playing it constantly, but because I'm not supposed to enjoy it. And all the people who wring their hands and say "what a tragedy, what a tragedy," while morbidly glued to the television screen. Like the fascination people have with the holocaust. Christ, can't we just masturbate quietly to this stuff instead of having to talk insistently about what a tragedy everything is? Not that it ruins the mood, just seems a little hypocritical.

Bad news is my favorite news. The good news is that the worst news continues to make the best news. I'm so glad that the news has a proper massacre to work with. Wailing bedouins and Anna Nicole Smith just weren't doing it for me. Is anyone else looking forward to the 20 page special in Newsweek, complete with a map of the shooter's path?

To be completely honest, though, the media hooplah over these events really pisses me off. Not because they're playing it constantly, but because I'm not supposed to enjoy it. And all the people who wring their hands and say "what a tragedy, what a tragedy," while morbidly glued to the television screen. Like the fascination people have with the holocaust. Christ, can't we just masturbate quietly to this stuff instead of having to talk insistently about what a tragedy everything is? Not that it ruins the mood, just seems a little hypocritical.

You should than experience being a hero in the hooplah. The ones not deserving it are dead and you are not.

I don't believe in heroes. We all reflexively react to extreme crisis in the ways that we have prepared ourselves to react; in critical moments we react in the ways that training, adrenaline and instinct are developed to facilitate. Those who are employed in dangerous professions are attracted to these phenomena. I can appreciate admiration, but the "hero" concept is a product not of crisis-averters, but of hero-worshippers.

So I'm thinking when the videos come out, we superimpose the HUD for grand theft auto over it. I bet he only makes it to three stars.

There's nothing anyone can do to stop a mentally ill person from carrying out a bloodbath. The only way to decrease the incidence is to convince the media to stop playing the events to the absolute hilt (yeah, right, never happen) so that other people on the edge don't get the idea. It would also be nice if someone who knew this young man had some kind of clue about what could happen and let somebody know about it.

Given the easy availability of automatic weapons and ammo, this sort of thing will continue to happen. Time was a guy might show up with a 38 special and maybe manage to kill one or two people before somebody stomped his guts out while he was reloading. Now you can set yourself up Matrix-style and keep killing until you either run out of victims or the cops stop you.

Sick people + highpowered weapons + open society = repeated mass murders


What stops a person form carrying multiple revovlers, dumbass.

No, banning weapons is not the answer at all. When you make weaponry illegal all you do is make so all the gun out there are in criminal hands. If we truly lived in a society of easy access weaponry the Headline today would be. "Heavily Armed Lunatic gunned down by Intended Victims" the Death toll would be low single digits.

Guess what, Virginia Tech is legally a "gun free zone". This means that even people with conceal carry permits are not allowed to carry guns there. You might not that these mass shootings almost always take place in areas where law abiding citizens are not allowed to carry guns.

Interestingly, an attempt was recently made to allow conceal carry at Virginia Tech, but it was defeated. Had it passed, this whole thing might have gone differently.
Not quite. It was the teachers fault. The shooter was upset because the teacher gave him a 99 instead of a 100. Then he shot up the place.

reply to twscott

^the problem is if everyone carried weapons, there would be more deaths.

Simply because of the moment of passion and availability of the weapon. It's extremely easy to load a weapon and pull the trigger and if you have it on your person day in and day out, especially with most people
it would be disastrous.

It's quite different when you have to plan a crime, not that its total prevention but it certainly plays a role.

You should than experience being a hero in the hooplah. The ones not deserving it are dead and you are not.Surprisingly well written post Draqon! And I heartily agree.

Unfortunately, kneejerk reaction will probably lead to increased restrictions on firearms ownership. For some reason, the facts, statistics and logic evade the "do-gooders" in positions of power... or, if you'll allow a little tinfoil moment, they purposefully ignore the truth in order to disarm the populace and gain additional control over them.

and by "do-gooders" i assume you mean bush and his cronies?!?!HAHAHAHAHA.

gun laws in america wont change.too many retards with votes./

Guess what, Virginia Tech is legally a "gun free zone". This means that even people with conceal carry permits are not allowed to carry guns there. You might not that these mass shootings almost always take place in areas where law abiding citizens are not allowed to carry guns.

Interestingly, an attempt was recently made to allow conceal carry at Virginia Tech, but it was defeated. Had it passed, this whole thing might have gone differently.

One thing that should be noted is that these shootings always seem to mostly take place in the US. Sure they occur elsewhere around the world from time to time, but most of the time, it always seems to happen in the US. Why is that?

Anywho..

Very Intersting point madan, I think that the death toll would have been much less had every one had a gun, and I think that was a ingonrant comment Bells
Yes, very interesting point indeed.

However you can never know this with any form of certainty. You are only basing your beliefs on what should occur if everyone was allowed to carry a concealed weapon or if everyone was armed. Now imagine the situation as the shootings was taking place. In the panic, can you be 100% certain that everyone would be able to shoot the correct person? Remember that people were diving all over the place to attempt to escape that classroom. He had automatic weapons. Can you be 100% certain that things would have gone better if everyone was armed? Or could you also have a situation where some want to be heroes would start going to look for him with their guns drawn, not knowing who exactly it was they were looking for?

The death toll would most definately be lower had the school been in lockdown at the instance of the first shooting and if everyone had been warned of what happened immediately afterwards, instead of a couple of hours later by email, amazingly enough, as the shooter was killing 30 more people in that classroom across campus. Maybe if the school was in lockdown, with the police searching the grounds, the shooter would not have been able to shoot up a room full of people. I don't know.. you tell me. What would have been better? Everyone be armed and running around scared out of their wits knowing that someone on campus was the shooter and they are meant to be able to defend themselves (remember these are all virtually kids who are armed and possibly having to kill a madman with automatic weapons.. are these kids properly trained to do this?)? Or having everyone in lockdown with police actively searching for the shooter? I would prefer to take the lockdown.. call me strange.:rolleyes:

In regards to the concealed weapons argument. At what age should people be allowed to arm themselves with a concealed weapon? Some of these kids might have been around 17 to 18 or so (imagine first year college students). Would you trust a bunch of 17 year olds with loaded weapons? What about the training these kids would have to have to carry said weapons? When should that start? Possibly a subject in high school? Because at the moment, you are both advocating arming children and allowing them to carry a concealed weapon.

What possible difference would it make?!?!?!

He was a n Asian Christian. Does that make it better?

It seems many of us posting are unaware of the latent nature of most Asians.. they are by DNA a very cold, calculating and cruel people, but most of them can contain it when they have to. But just under the surface lies Mongol blood, some of the most barbarous people to have ever drawn air.

Speak for yourself kid.

Bells, I think you have a good point about forming a "witch" hunt, but in a class room situation I would presume that it would lie down more like this

Shotter walks in shoots one maby three people then some one thru the scrambling shots him and there is a slight possability that he could get shot but I would assume not more than one more person would get shot after that.


gerrr my 02 cents

Interestingly, an attempt was recently made to allow conceal carry at Virginia Tech, but it was defeated. Had it passed, this whole thing might have gone differently.

And why is that?

No, banning weapons is not the answer at all. When you make weaponry illegal all you do is make so all the gun out there are in criminal hands. If we truly lived in a society of easy access weaponry the Headline today would be. "Heavily Armed Lunatic gunned down by Intended Victims" the Death toll would be low single digits.


It’s truly amazing and quite bizarre how so many Americans can believe in such a blatantly stupid and nonsensical notion. The experience of just about every other country on Earth argues against this preposterous idea, yet somehow you all manage to hold on to it with the bone-headed determination of a captain going down with the ship. :rolleyes:

No, banning weapons is not the answer at all. When you make weaponry illegal all you do is make so all the gun out there are in criminal hands. If we truly lived in a society of easy access weaponry the Headline today would be. "Heavily Armed Lunatic gunned down by Intended Victims" the Death toll would be low single digits.
http://www.iraqbodycount.org/

Not quite. It was the teachers fault. The shooter was upset because the teacher gave him a 99 instead of a 100. Then he shot up the place.
This from one who's so quick to accuse others of racism. Here's some info on the myth of the Asian 'model minority':

http://www.huppi.com/kangaroo/L-aamodel.htm

I know this is kind of off topic, but that bald chick that pretended to be dead to survive is totally hot!

This from one who's so quick to accuse others of racism. Here's some info on the myth of the Asian 'model minority':

http://www.huppi.com/kangaroo/L-aamodel.htm


I would agree with most of that. Most asians who move overseas are better off except for majority of southeast asians and many chinese.

I would disagree about the chinese, though there are those who come from higher socio-economic status, there are many that don't which have to work menial jobs. There is more than one social bracket who are looking for opportunity.

Most japanese, koreans and many chinese are from affluent backgrounds that migrate overseas, except for those who marry servicemen.

What does need to be pointed out is that asians in general do pull themselves up by their bootstrings, they don't stay on assistance or help long and they start businesses or are hardworking. As well, asians are usually law-abiding

It seems many of us posting are unaware of the latent nature of most Asians.. they are by DNA a very cold, calculating and cruel people, but most of them can contain it when they have to. But just under the surface lies Mongol blood, some of the most barbarous people to have ever drawn air.

And what is your explanation for the crime sprees committed not only today but in all of history by all races???

I'd like to hear the logical, unbiased, true explanation.

It seems many of us posting are unaware of the latent nature of most Asians.. they are by DNA a very cold, calculating and cruel people, but most of them can contain it when they have to. But just under the surface lies Mongol blood, some of the most barbarous people to have ever drawn air.


Err... this sounds like a description of white people.

And why is that?

To contain the high incidence of violence on campus.

No, banning weapons is not the answer at all. When you make weaponry illegal all you do is make so all the gun out there are in criminal hands. If we truly lived in a society of easy access weaponry the Headline today would be. "Heavily Armed Lunatic gunned down by Intended Victims" the Death toll would be low single digits.

Really?
Is that why the countries in which it is more difficult to legally get weaponry than it is in America has less gun violence?

Category:Incendiary

Category:Fruitless Chin-Stroking

CNN said the murderer is a chinese guy from Shanghai, I guess he could be upset with US and committed genocide.

Why isn't evolution in both of those categories? :bugeye:

Why isn't evolution in both of those categories? :bugeye:

Good suggestion.:)

Evolution

Now it is.

Back on topic, perhaps every university should have a trained SWAT team for quick response.

Back on topic, perhaps every university should have a trained SWAT team for quick response.

SWAT teams go in after the shooting has occured, which is exactly what happened, Sam. So ...no lives would have been saved, they'd just be there to pick up the dead bodies.

Funny, though, we make such a big deal out of 30-some dead people, yet the 8,000-10,000 people who died in Africa yesterday we say nothing. The news media leads us all around by the nose ...it even tells us when to mourn and who to mourn ...and we all do it obediently.

How many lives were lost yesterday in traffic accidents? How many lives were lost yesterday by murder? Those happen every day, yet we don't say a thing about it ...or mourn the loss.

God, we're a strange bunch o' people, ain't we? :D

Baron Max

Back on topic, perhaps every university should have a trained SWAT team for quick response.

Why not every high school and every mall in the country as well?
That's an absurd notion, and entirely unnecessary.
You want to put armed swat teams at each of the thousands of universities in the country because of a few dozen dead?
That's the kind of paranoid thinking that makes people willing to sign away civil liberties and re-elect George Bush because they are too pathetically scared to do otherwise.

GTA 4 is going to be banned I bet.

Society by lowest common denominator.

...because of a few dozen dead?
That's the kind of paranoid thinking that makes people willing to sign away civil liberties and re-elect George Bush because they are too pathetically scared to do otherwise.

Yeah, people should gladly accept the killings and murders in exchange for their "civil liberties" and "freedoms".

In fact, the killings at the university should be celebrated as a great sign that our civil liberties and freedoms are alive and well.

Baron Max

Yeah, people should gladly accept the killings and murders in exchange for their "civil liberties" and "freedoms".

In fact, the killings at the university should be celebrated as a great sign that our civil liberties and freedoms are alive and well.

So are you saying you agree with Sam and there should be SWAT teams at every school?
Of course you don't.
So what is it then?
Are you simply having a knee-jerk reaction to what you see as liberal rhetoric and Democratic party tag lines (diminishing civil liberties)?

Or are you simply being disingenuous and argumentative for the hell of it?

I happen to enjoy being able to walk down the street without passing heavily armed soldiers asking for my ID "for my own protection" and am willing to accept that sometimes bad things do happen, and sometimes people with guns go crazy and shoot people.
The odds of getting shot (which are incredibly small, and smaller than they have ever been in the history of this country) is not enough of a reason to me to give the federal government (which is already too large, disastrously mismanaged and too powerful) the OK to position thousands of battle-ready teams of soldiers all over the country.

I'm not a scared little puppy, wanting big brother to protect me from all the boogey men at the expense of my own liberty (relative liberty, I fully admit, before you jump on your old-tired warhorse about what freedom is).

...and am willing to accept that sometimes bad things do happen, and sometimes people with guns go crazy and shoot people.

But you have to understand that others might not be so willing to accept it as you are. ...and apparently they aren't. Yet you denigrate them for their views because it's different to your own view.

The odds of getting shot (which are incredibly small, and smaller than they have ever been in the history of this country) ...

All that says is that you're willing to gamble with my life and the lives of others so that you can feel "free", right? But others don't seem to be gamblers as much as you, so....?

I'm not a scared little puppy, wanting big brother to protect me from all the boogey men at the expense of my own liberty ....

But some people are too scared and want that protection. So.....should what you want take precedent over what they want?

So are you saying you agree with Sam and there should be SWAT teams at every school?

Oh, no, of course not. What I think is that everyone should have a cop handcuffed to them all the time, 24-hours a day ...not only to protect them, but to keep them from doing anything to others.

Freedom is the ability to kill others any time one wants to do so. The more people one can kill before someone stops you is directly proportional to the degree of freedom that one has.

Baron Max

one_raven

Why not every high school and every mall in the country as well?
That's an absurd notion, and entirely unnecessary.
You want to put armed swat teams at each of the thousands of universities in the country because of a few dozen dead?
That's the kind of paranoid thinking that makes people willing to sign away civil liberties and re-elect George Bush because they are too pathetically scared to do otherwise.

You missed the point, even if every campus had a S.W.A.T. team it would do no good, as they cannot react until after something has happened, and then all they can do is be body recovery personnel, pick up the bodies and figure out the path of the destruction and who died were.

By law you are responsible for your own personnel protection, and the fact is that you are the first responder on the scene, weather you are the victim or a by stander, so since these thing happen when the police are not present, and cannot respond until some one informs them that a crime is in progress, and has been committed, it is up to you to take care of yourself, so now what are you going to do? me I am going to fight, and I a long time ago have decided to go armed, and I carry a firearm, one citizen with a gun would have had a chance of stopping this, in most of these situations the looser who decides to take his piss off out on innocent people when confronted with force put the gun to their head pull the trigger and go to hell, but I am not going to be the one dieing under a desk, with my hands around my head, praying for my life, that only leads to 30+ dead.

Baron Max,
When you are willing to honestly and openly discuss what you actually believe, I'm here.
Until then, have fun playing your game.

one_raven,

What don't you under stand about my position?

Did the Chinese screen this guy, or train him, before he came over?

Didn't Clinton bomb the Chinese Embassy in Yugoslavia?

Chinese Embassy

I think that anyone whom really breaks one of these events to it's most minute parts can conclude this:

The Law can only serve to punish, it cannot protect. The suicidal violator, does not even let them serve any function.

Whoops, Freudian slip.

"Freudian slip" was for that I misstakenly typed U.S. Embassy rather than Chinese Embassy.

What I keep wondering is why the gunman killed two people in a dorm and then two hours later killed the rest on the other side of the campus. Why did the university think he had merely left the campus grounds? Why did they not evacuate the campus when the first shooting occured or at least have them in lockdown from then? In short, what in the hell was the university thinking in allowing students to roam the grounds after the first shooting (in the dorm) without any knowledge of who had killed the two in the dorm or where he had actually gone afterwards. In hindsight we now know where he went..

Because, most people try to get away after they commit murder. They don't generally go on mass killing sprees. This is an oddity, not the rule.

You mention hindsight. Only hindsight would give any indication that such an event as this would occur.

Should the school have acted to lock the area down? Probably wouldn't have hurt. But, I wonder what the odds are that this is the only shooting that has ever taken place at this school? And I wonder how many of those shootings (if any happened) turned into mass killings? What are the percentages in general of shootings at college campuses which end up in mass killing sprees?
I suspect the percentages are pretty damned slim.


Here's my idea on what happened.

First. It's not terrorism. Terrorism requires an agenda. I don't believe the shooter had one. Other than to kill, that is.

What I believe happened is that the shooting in the dorm in the morning was an act of passion. An argument. Over something stupid, most likely. Maybe his roommate drank the last beer one too many times.
Bang. Dead roommate.

Then, after that line had been crossed, instead of trying to get away as most would do, our shooter gave in to despair and hopelessness. He figured that he might as well go out in a blaze of glory.
And he did.
Bang bang bang.


On a humourous sidenote, I was listening to an NPR interview of a professor that spoke with such a thick southern drawl that the interviewer had to slowly and carefully restate everything that he said. And he did it in such a way as to attempt not to insult the guy for talking like he had a mouth full of mud.

The Southern Drawl is practically another dialect. It's almost unintelligible. Maybe that's why the shooter went nuts.

Good point.

He was a Senior English major.

Why not every high school and every mall in the country as well?
That's an absurd notion, and entirely unnecessary.
You want to put armed swat teams at each of the thousands of universities in the country because of a few dozen dead?
That's the kind of paranoid thinking that makes people willing to sign away civil liberties and re-elect George Bush because they are too pathetically scared to do otherwise.

It was the opinion of a trained terrorist expert on CNN.:p

I was being sarcastic, btw.

It was the opinion of a trained terrorist expert on CNN.:p
trained by whom, I wonder.

I was being sarcastic, btw.

Thankfully!

He was a South Korean student.

In my experience its pretty rare for Asian people to do stuff like this especially when studying overseas.

He'd obviously flipped and it becomes inconceivable that the police didn't consider the danger this represented after the first shooting.

Heads must roll.

I don't mean to stereotype, but most asians I know that are actually from asia and just here for school have very tight family bonds, and get lip from their families an awful lot. I've overheard several phone conversations with "yes mom, i know mom, I studied for that quiz already" while the mom sounds vaguely like she's dictating his next day's schedule in the background, "you need to do this, and then you need to do...". personally, I'm in college, and me and my family touch base ever weekend, but if I was being called by my mom or dad several times a day for every intricate detail of my academic life (and lack of social life), I think i would loose it! most people like this that I know handle this by kinda blowing them off... for instance "uh-huh... yeah... uh-huh... yeah..." while sitting on the bed watching family guy.

I suppose some chicken-shits think taking out whole classrooms of your peers is a more apt solution.

Thank God he wasn't a Muslim or of ME descent.

I heard (from a friend of a friend of a friend who was hiding under a desk while her classmates were shot) that the guy was toting a big gun and lots and lots of ammo.

Bells, uh, 'argument' that letting students carry handguns would have done more harm than good isn't likely.

If the shooter entered a classroom with 20 students in it, all of whom were happening to be carrying handguns (unlikely) and in their confusion, everyone accidently ended up killing each other, that's only 20 deaths + the shooter. Which is 2/5 the casualties that actually happened.

I don't see how this incident could possibly be an argument for (stronger) gun control. America can hardly control its gang problems, its drug problems, and its boarder. How the fuck is it going to control guns, other than keeping them out of the hands of people that agree to follow the law? If only one person had a gun, this could have gone a lot differently.

Many Democrats want only the criminals and the government to have guns, such a deal.

Thank God he wasn't a Muslim or of ME descent.

Too bad he wasn't.


Did you know the word 'amok' comes from Malay? The Sikhs or Hindus or whoever live down in the archipelago that carry those big fancy, ceremonial daggers, would, when faced with no other options in life, go on a stabbing spree until overpowered by neighbors. To go amok.

Wallace wrote that the Englishman had his pistol, the Japanese seppuku, and the Malay amok.

Many Democrats want only the criminals and the government to have guns, such a deal.

Liar.

Or liar?

"Quite frankly, we have the one chance to get it right,"

- Virginia State Police Superintendent Col. Steve Flaherty.


Think you've already missed that.

Hard to have gun control in a country that makes a lot of money from guns.

Hard to have gun control in a country that makes a lot of money from guns.

Bingo.

Hard to have gun control in a country that makes a lot of money from guns.
It works in many civilised countries

i think i should be allowed to own a gun, but im not because the uk does not permit firearms.

i need to protect my home and family, i want a legal gun.


peace.

i think i should be allowed to own a gun, but im not because the uk does not permit firearms.

i need to protect my home and family, i want a legal gun.


peace.

You could always make some Molotov cocktails (http://www.1001cocktails.com/recipes/cocktails/recipe_cocktail.php?recette_cocktail=301049&recipe=molotov+cocktail).

yes but i wouldent want to set fire to my own house, i would rather shoot an intruder than kill my family trying to save them :).


petrol bombs and molotov cotails are fun to play about with though, ~(in a sensible adult manner ofcourse).


peace.

You can register for a shotgun/rifle license. You just can't have handguns or assault weaponry.

i cannot register for a shotgun license because i am a convicted felon apparently.

peace,,

thats discrimination in my books.

peace

i am a convicted felon apparently.

Apparently?
You didn't know you're a convicted felon?

http://www.gazeta.ru/2007/04/17/images/i2_236964_25_s3445.jpg

I heard (from a friend of a friend of a friend who was hiding under a desk while her classmates were shot) that the guy was toting a big gun and lots and lots of ammo.

Bells, uh, 'argument' that letting students carry handguns would have done more harm than good isn't likely.

If the shooter entered a classroom with 20 students in it, all of whom were happening to be carrying handguns (unlikely) and in their confusion, everyone accidently ended up killing each other, that's only 20 deaths + the shooter. Which is 2/5 the casualties that actually happened.

I don't see how this incident could possibly be an argument for (stronger) gun control. America can hardly control its gang problems, its drug problems, and its boarder. How the fuck is it going to control guns, other than keeping them out of the hands of people that agree to follow the law? If only one person had a gun, this could have gone a lot differently.

blabla..

The real problem is that the US society creates the mindset that is likely to commit acts like these in combination with widespead easy availability of guns.

That's all.

Anyway...this seems rather local news to me instead of world events. It's not like it is the first time or last time.

Anyway...this seems rather local news to me instead of world events. It's not like it is the first time or last time.


Local? This is the biggest mass murder in the history of the United States second to the Civil and Revolutionary wars. Either way the sudden murder of 30 people any where is faily big news. Now granted it isn't as big as some of the things that have happened in the past or that are even happening now.

I personally find that there shouldn't be a limit on guns or a harsh limit. Not this wisshy-washy crap. Everyone will be equally matched if guns were alowed. And with the limits there would be less guns. We just need to make up our minds

Local? This is the biggest mass murder in the history of the United States second to the Civil and Revolutionary wars. Either way the sudden murder of 30 people any where is faily big news. Now granted it isn't as big as some of the things that have happened in the past or that are even happening now.


The US is local. It's not the world.

Live footage of the ummm Celebration...?! They actually clapped after this girls speech, wtf.

http://us.video.aol.com/video.index.adp?pmmsid=1412029

If you see this by the time it's over this just goes to show they're more f'd than the killer was... I mean they gathered hundreds of people to celebrate the remembrance of 32 people that died but a few days ago, talk about fast.... god this is sicl

Apparently?
You didn't know you're a convicted felon?

i was trying to lighten the mood so it didnt seem so bad,


peace.

i was trying to lighten the mood so it didnt seem so bad,


peace.

What did you do?
Or should I ask what you were wrongly convicted of as an innocent man?

i was wrongly convicted of arson with intent to love, and burglary,

peace.

"He was a loner, and we're having difficulty finding information about him," school spokesman Larry Hincker said.

Yea, that's to be expected. He likely wasn't an all around popular fellow.

Professor Carolyn Rude, chairwoman of the university's English department, said she did not personally know the gunman. But she said she spoke with Lucinda Roy, the department's director of creative writing, who had Cho in one of her classes and described him as "troubled."

That makes sense, hell this guy must've been thinking about it for awhile.

"There was some concern about him," Rude said. "Sometimes, in creative writing, people reveal things and you never know if it's creative or if they're describing things, if they're imagining things or just how real it might be. But we're all alert to not ignore things like this."

Let's hope they don't start using this as an excuse to stiple free speech.

The Chicago Tribune reported on its Web site that he left a note in his dorm room that included a rambling list of grievances. Citing identified sources, the Tribune said he had recently shown troubling signs, including setting a fire in a dorm room and stalking some women.

ABC, citing law enforcement sources, reported that the note, several pages long, explains Cho's actions and says, "You caused me to do this."

Well at least he knows what caused him to go kill everybody, it was them... now what they did exactly we don't know but still he seems to. I especially like how they call his list of grievances 'rambling' as if it's unimportant. Maybe had they payed more attention to the things he listed this wouldn't have happened?!

Investigators believe Cho at some point had been taking medication for depression, the Tribune reported.

~ I'm on Zoloft :(

Jessie Ferguson, 19, a freshman from Arlington, left Newman Hall and headed for her car with tears streaming down her red cheeks.

"I'm still kind of shaky," she said. "I had to pump myself up just to kind of come out of the building. I was going to come out, but it took a little bit of 'OK, it's going to be all right. There's lots of cops around.'"

Why is she so upset? It's not like she died right... just shows you people only care when something bad happens, otherwise they're completely ignorant of those around them.
peace.

I'm not belittling this, but it's not that horrible, he got lucky in that everybody there was either just worried about themselves or ignorant of him. How blind does someone need to be not to see a gunman shooting people? It's probably something like this... he was shooting them, people saw the guy, they thought "no it's not this guy he's a loaner, nobody cares about him" then they turn to look for the shooter and they're surprised.

Anyway I'm bored, I can't believe they're already having a memorial service for these people it's not even been 3 days for christ sakes.

Everyone will probably disagree with me on this :

Guns do not kill people.......
People kill people .........

Either USA ban guns for private persons ....not very likely .......
or all teachers get a "special education in deadly firearms" ..... and are allowed to carry concealed guns in class...........

Could probably also help on the class discipline in general , knowing that your teacher is armed ......:rolleyes:
Anyway , just a thought .......:m: :p

if those students were armed with pistols, maybe a nice desert eagle or something,

they would have had a chance to save some lives, :)

i say if your gonna arm a populous why not let them actualy carry the guns where they might need them. most people get shot outside of the home statistics show,


so having the gun at home in most cases will protect nobody. either that or dont sell guns to your population in the first place,


did this guy use clean or dirty guns?


peace.

How blind does someone need to be not to see a gunman shooting people? It's probably something like this... he was shooting them, people saw the guy, they thought "no it's not this guy he's a loaner, nobody cares about him" then they turn to look for the shooter and they're surprised.

No, actually it was nothing like that at all.
They were locked in a classroom with him.
The ones that got away were the ones who jumped out the window.
Try reading the articles beofre you jump to your harsh, baseless judgements of people who were killed.
Just like your bullshit, baseless judgement that they were all self-absorbed rich kids who think they are so smart - as if that is all who go to college.

You sound like a pathetic whining brat who is jealous because he never finished school.
Was it because you couldn't afford it, or was the work too difficult for you?

Everyone will probably disagree with me on this :

Guns do not kill people.......
People kill people .........

Either USA ban guns for private persons ....not very likely .......
or all teachers get a "special education in deadly firearms" ..... and are allowed to carry concealed guns in class...........

Could probably also help on the class discipline in general , knowing that your teacher is armed ......:rolleyes:
Anyway , just a thought .......:m: :p

i dont disagree with that, if the teachers had guns they would have been able to save some lives. (not the killers obviously)

peace.

if those students were armed with pistols, maybe a nice desert eagle or something,

they would have had a chance to save some lives, :)

i say if your gonna arm a populous why not let them actualy carry the guns where they might need them. most people get shot outside of the home statistics show,


so having the gun at home in most cases will protect nobody. either that or dont sell guns to your population in the first place,


did this guy use clean or dirty guns?


peace.

I personally would prefer the teachers to be armed ......not the students ......

did this guy use clean or dirty guns?

According to one article I read, he had a recipt for them in his backpack, but the numbers were filed off, so it looks like he bought them legally and filed the numbers off himself.

Doesn't seem very bright to me.

so he is a member of the NRA ?

and yeah maybe the teachers bieng armed is a better idea than every student toting a pistol in lesson :)


peace

They wouldn't release his grades :L

The next step is a wall around campus/university area - one entrance only ...
through a metaldetector ........:m: :p

i thought most schools in the usa have metal detectors because alot of your kids are screwed up and go on killing sprees with guns.

they are putting metal detectors in schools in london now,

peace.

it seems in the uk people kill other people for a "reason" like actualy target anouther person they have a dispute with or a score to settle, or over drug turf or something like that.

but in the usa you have some wierd little boys who kill anybody and everybody they can see, on a huge rampage then they always take themselves out in suicide,

you guys have one screwed up country im glad we dont have people that crazy over here. i know we have some idiots, but nothing like these type of massecres you guys must be doing something wrong.


maybe its because you let your kids play with guns from an early age, like that little 8 year old at the NRA convention, they actualy let little kids go to nra meetings with guns on display?

peace.

Empty F of Chi .
I am NOT from USA ............ I am from Denmark in Europe , and as far as I know , there has NEVER been a shooting incident in our schools here ........

Kids are not allowed to have guns here .........only mature mentally stabile adults .........

Peace :m: :p

It's not JUST the US...

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/europe/1953425.stm

I believe this stems from unmet needs during adolecense, things like mating, peer support, etc.

If only mature mentally stabile adults had guns , then the problem might not be so grave ................. and the guns locked up, when the kids are alone at home ............:m: ;)

This will not help, all humans are unstable, it just takes certain triggers to cause this instability to come out.

sputnik i wasnt implying your from the us :)

and raven yeah i know other countrys do it too, but usa seems to be the worst for teenagers going on shooting sprees.

wow germany is just as nuts as the states! i wouldent have guessed, ok german kids and american kids are the most screwed up hands down :)


why do they always shoot themselves afterwords?

oh yeah and just a little idea here i will make a thread about it afterwards, you know people give excuses for certain acts due to chemical imbalence, and they get away with it and dont end up bieng persecuted or looked down upon because they have a "chemical imbalence" or issue witht here brain so its not there "fault" say psyco killers rapists and other criminals have a chemical imbalence and it is not there fault entirely (lets just say) how could they be judged differently from those who are pittied for having something wrong with them, like if a certain part of the brain is responsible for "humane acts of kindness" and that part is badlt damaged, is it really there "fault".





peace.

I think it's pretty simple - there should be NO guns. Unarmed people, unarmed police force. If you think about it, America allows people to carry guns for their protection from other people who have guns who only have guns because America allows people to carry guns for their protection...blah, blah, blah, etc. etc. etc. It makes completely no sense.

Here it is, the police don't have to protect the individual, they don't even have to respond, you are on your own, and it has been affirmed by court case law.


http://hematite.com/dragon/policeprot.html


Do You Have A Right to Police Protection?



One of the basic themes of gun control is that only the police and military should have handguns or any type of firearm. I cannot explain their rationale, other than to say that gun control proponents must believe that the police exist to protect the citizenry from victimization. But in light of court decisions we find such is not the case. You have no right to expect the police to protect you from crime. Incredible as it may seem, the courts have ruled that the police are not obligated to even respond to your calls for help, even in life threatening situations!. To be fair to our men in blue, I think most officers really do want to save lives and stop dangerous situations before people get hurt. But the key point to remember is that they are under no legal obligation to do so.



Case Histories
Ruth Brunell called the police on 20 different occasions to plead for protection from her husband. He was arrested only one time. One evening Mr. Brunell telephoned his wife and told her he was coming over to kill her. When she called the police, they refused her request that they come to protect her. They told her to call back when he got there. Mr. Brunell stabbed his wife to death before she could call the police to tell them that he was there. The court held that the San Jose police were not liable for ignoring Mrs. Brunell's pleas for help. Hartzler v. City of San Jose, 46 Cal. App. 3d 6 (1st Dist. 1975).[Those of you in the Silicon Valley, please note what city this happened in!]

Consider the case of Linda Riss, in which a young woman telephoned the police and begged for help because her ex-boyfriend had repeatedly threatened "If I can't have you no one else will have you, and when I get through with you, no-one else will want you." The day after she had pleaded for police protection, the ex-boyfriend threw lye in her face, blinding her in one eye, severely damaging the other, and permanently scarring her features. "What makes the City's position particularly difficult to understand," wrote a dissenting opinion in her tort suit against the City, "is that, in conformity to the dictates of the law, Linda did not carry any weapon for self-defense. Thus, by a rather bitter irony she was required to rely for protection on the City of New York which now denies all responsibility to her." Riss v. New York, 240 N.E.2d 860 (N.Y. 1968). [Note: Linda Riss obeyed the law, yet the law prevented her from arming herself in self-defense.]
Warren v. District of Columbia is one of the leading cases of this type. Two women were upstairs in a townhouse when they heard their roommate, a third woman, being attacked downstairs by intruders. They phoned the police several times and were assured that officers were on the way. After about 30 minutes, when their roommate's screams had stopped, they assumed the police had finally arrived. When the two women went downstairs they saw that in fact the police never came, but the intruders were still there. As the Warren court graphically states in the opinion: ``For the next fourteen hours the women were held captive, raped, robbed, beaten, forced to commit sexual acts upon each other, and made to submit to the sexual demands of their attackers.'' The three women sued the District of Columbia for failing to protect them, but D.C.'s highest court exonerated the District and its police, saying that it is a ``fundamental principle of American law that a government and its agents are under no general duty to provide public services, such as police protection, to any individual citizen.'' Warren v. District of Columbia, 444 A.2d 1 (D.C. Ct. of Ap., 1981).

The seminal case establishing the general rule that police have no duty under federal law to protect citizens is DeShaney v. Winnebago County Department of Social Services (109 S.Ct. 998, 1989). Frequently these cases are based on an alleged ``special relationship'' between the injured party and the police. In DeShaney the injured party was a boy who was beaten and permanently injured by his father. He claimed a special relationship existed because local officials knew he was being abused, indeed they had ``specifically proclaimed by word and deed [their] intention to protect him against that danger,'' but failed to remove him from his father's custody. ("Domestic Violence -- When Do Police Have a Constitutional Duty to Protect?'' Special Agent Daniel L. Schofield, S.J.D., FBI Law Enforcement Bulletin, January, 1991.)

The Court in DeShaney held that no duty arose because of a "special relationship,'' concluding that Constitutional duties of care and protection only exist as to certain individuals, such as incarcerated prisoners, involuntarily committed mental patients and others restrained against their will and therefore unable to protect themselves. ``The affirmative duty to protect arises not from the State's knowledge of the individual's predicament or from its expressions of intent to help him, but from the limitation which it has imposed on his freedom to act on his own behalf.'' (DeShaney v. Winnebago County Department of Social Services, 109 S.Ct. 998 (1989) at 1006.)

About a year later, the United States Court of Appeals interpreted DeShaney in the California case of Balistreri v. Pacifica Police Department. (901 F.2d 696 9th Cir. 1990) Ms. Balistreri, beaten and harassed by her estranged husband, alleged a "special relationship'' existed between her and the Pacifica Police Department, to wit, they were duty-bound to protect her because there was a restraining order against her husband. The Court of Appeals, however, concluded that DeShaney limited the circumstances that would give rise to a "special relationship'' to instances of custody. Because no such custody existed in Balistreri, the Pacifica Police had no duty to protect her, so when they failed to do so and she was injured they were not liable.

A citizen injured because the police failed to protect her can only sue the State or local government in federal court if one of their officials violated a federal statutory or Constitutional right, and can only win such a suit if a "special relationship'' can be shown to have existed, which DeShaney and its progeny make it very difficult to do. Moreover, Zinermon v. Burch (110 S.Ct. 975, 984 1990) very likely precludes Section 1983 liability for police agencies in these types of cases if there is a potential remedy via a State tort action.

Many states, however, have specifically precluded such claims, barring lawsuits against State or local officials for failure to protect, by enacting statutes such as California's Government Code, Sections 821, 845, and 846 which state, in part: "Neither a public entity or a public employee [may be sued] for failure to provide adequate police protection or service, failure to prevent the commission of crimes and failure to apprehend criminals.''

In other words this means the only people the police are duty-bound to protect are criminals in custody, and other persons in custody for such things as mental disorders. YOU have no recourse if the police fail to respond or fail to protect you from injury!

If this is true ............then god help America ..........

If this is true ............then god help America ..........

there is no God/god.

One of the basic themes of gun control is that only the police and military should have handguns or any type of firearm.


You see? That's stupid. The police shouldn't have weapons. Here in Ireland, our Gardai (police) have been unarmed since the republic was set up, and it's not like they had an easy time, they had the fucking IRA to deal with! But they never needed to be armed and sure they got rid of the IRA

You see? That's stupid. The police shouldn't have weapons. Here in Ireland, our Gardai (police) have been unarmed since the republic was set up, and it's not like they had an easy time, they had the fucking IRA to deal with! But they never needed to be armed and sure they got rid of the IRA


When you say Ireland - do you mean Ireland or North Ireland ......??
I mean , IRA do exist in Ireland but are (were) not as violent there as in North Ireland ...........
since Ireland is already liberated from the " Inglish " ....

there is no God/god.

thats why your such a pessimist,


peace.

FreeThinkers

You see? That's stupid. The police shouldn't have weapons. Here in Ireland, our Gardai (police) have been unarmed since the republic was set up, and it's not like they had an easy time, they had the fucking IRA to deal with! But they never needed to be armed and sure they got rid of the IRA


Really? provide the proof?, what did the body count come to? I have a personnel friend that will call you a liar, he was in N. Ireland, and served with the Gardai.

When you say Ireland - do you mean Ireland or North Ireland ......??
I mean , IRA do exist in Ireland but are (were) not as violent there as in North Ireland ...........
since Ireland is already liberated from the " Inglish " ....

Sorry, I mean the republic of Ireland. If I meant the North I'd say the UK, because, unfortunately, the country'll never be reunited.

The IRA weren't a big problem in most of the republic but in the regions around the Northern border like Donegal, Cavan etc. they were a very big problem.

FreeThinkers




Really? provide the proof?, what did the body count come to? I have a personnel friend that will call you a liar, he was in N. Ireland, and served with the Gardai.

Provide the proof? The IRA are gone; if they weren't we'd know about it by now.

"He was in N. Ireland and served with the Gardai" The Gardai aren't in the North!?!

The Republic's Gardai weren't even armed during the Troubles because everybody, including the police force, had strong unionist or republican views. It would be too risky.

Sorry, I mean the republic of Ireland. If I meant the North I'd say the UK, because, unfortunately, the country'll never be reunited.

The IRA weren't a big problem in most of the republic but in the regions around the Northern border like Donegal, Cavan etc. they were a very big problem.

I still hope N.I. and Ireland will one day be united ........ you can call me a dreamer if you want ..........
I have friends in Dublin ...........I love Dublin .........:m: :p

I still hope N.I. and Ireland will one day be united ........ you can call me a dreamer if you want ..........
I have friends in Dublin ...........I love Dublin .........:m: :p


Me too... I cried when Sinn Fein lost the election. They would have re-united it. Ugly old Paisley will never let the North join the Republic.

There's no way we'll ever have a re-united Ireland... you can't force 1 million Protestant Unionists to join the Republic, you know how they hate us Catholics.

FreeThinkers, He served in N.Ireland, with the police, and he shure was the hell armed.

there is no God/god.
This same type of thinking caused Columbine and this VA Tech shooting...the shooters were all atheists what did they care if they killed innocent people? There's no God, no karma, no result of good and bad deeds, no afterlife, etc...so after the shooter kills themselves they win, its just a void after that and no bad consequences for the killings....

FreeThinkers, He served in N.Ireland, with the police, and he shure was the hell armed.

Read my previous messages - I'M TALKING ABOUT THE REPUBLIC, WHERE THE GARDAI WERE NOT ARMED.

This same type of thinking caused Columbine and this VA Tech shooting...the shooters were all atheists what did they care if they killed innocent people? There's no God, no karma, no result of good and bad deeds, no afterlife, etc...so after the shooter kills themselves they win, its just a void after that and no bad consequences for the killings....

dragon will be the next athiest on a rampage in the news.


peace.

i was wrongly convicted of arson with intent to love, and burglary,

peace.

:bugeye:

Wonder what that could mean.

dragon will be the next athiest on a rampage in the news.

peace.

Unlike those who cant control their chemical imbalance, I have my chemicals well balances. I am peaceful and I do not have any rage in me stored. When I do have rage I let it go fast. So look for other puppet...sderenzi...

FreeThinkers, He served in N.Ireland, with the police, and he shure was the hell armed.

Of course they were armed in the North. I was in the North a couple of weeks ago, and it's not as bad as it used to be, I mean there's still graffiti everywhere saying 'IRA', or 'Free all POWs' or the Union Jack. But the nicest thing to see is the police, in normal police cars, without the bullet proof windows, giving out speeding tickets, doing normal police work. It's so different to how it used to be. I mean, they used to be in huge trucks, armed to the neck, and too busy looking for terrorists to be controlling traffic. The contrast between ten years ago and now is unbelievable.

This same type of thinking caused Columbine and this VA Tech shooting...the shooters were all atheists what did they care if they killed innocent people? There's no God, no karma, no result of good and bad deeds, no afterlife, etc...so after the shooter kills themselves they win, its just a void after that and no bad consequences for the killings....

thats where I am different. people stop at a belief of No God. I am a follower of Buddhism and my own set of beliefs. I have moral grounds and abide by them, because I know the power that is within me and I know I can control it. Because I have been through many hardships in my life and tested myself for that purpose. Control of will, power of will, is that which is important to me.

Me too... I cried when Sinn Fein lost the election. They would have re-united it. Ugly old Paisley will never let the North join the Republic.

There's no way we'll ever have a re-united Ireland... you can't force 1 million Protestant Unionists to join the Republic, you know how they hate us Catholics.


Cheers FreeThinkers ...........right now , I am drinking Guinness in honour of a
re-united Ireland and you .........just opened the can ......cheers mate.......:m: :p

thats where I am different. people stop at a belief of No God. I am a follower of Buddhism and my own set of beliefs. I have moral grounds and abide by them, because I know the power that is within me and I know I can control it. Because I have been through many hardships in my life and tested myself for that purpose. Control of will, power of will, is that which is important to me.

So since you are a Buddhist that means that you believe in an afterlife and the result of good and bad deeds right? Also, Gautama Buddha believed in many different devas or gods, and also many different Buddhas (on other worlds).

Unlike those who cant control their chemical imbalance, I have my chemicals well balances. I am peaceful and I do not have any rage in me stored. When I do have rage I let it go fast. So look for other puppet...sderenzi...


:)

i dont believe you would kill everybody, i dont believe darksidzz would kill everybody either,


i just believe you both need to go and get laid, and release your sexual tension, also maybe if you accepted the fact that the universe may not be as cruel as you believe you might cheer up a little,

i think you should stop assuming you know about gods existence and universal mystery, because at the end of the day none of us know about god or the universe etc, he could exist he may not,

none of us have any proof either way, so dont assume to much, and maybe if you believed in a god you would be happyer, people say theres no point in believing and they live there whole life in misery deep down,

i wuld rather live a happy uncertainty than be depressed living a unhappy uncertainty,

peace.

Thank you, it is calming to hear this :>

I concur with your statements Mr. Chi, I am without female and therefore not sane...

wow dragon, a buddhist? you do not have the attitude of one in your posts!

peace.

Cheers FreeThinkers ...........right now , I am drinking Guinness in honour of a
re-united Ireland and you .........just opened the can ......cheers mate.......:m: :p


I'd open a Guiness too only I don't have any (shameful - Irish person with no Guiness to spare). But anyway . . . To peace among Catholics and Protestants. . . . (raising non-existant can). And to a re-united Ireland.

wow dragon, a buddhist? you do not have the attitude of one in your posts!

peace.

I am obviously not there yet. :p

im not bieng a womaniser or sexiest when i say this,

but darksidzz if you just want sex sex sex, then just go for a regular looking girl maybe slightly chubby or fat, they are easy (i cant believe im saying this) just go up to as many girls as you can and ask them back to your place for a few drinks, look them in the eyes when you talk to them, dont act shy, dont stutter,

have a few drinks with them and just fuck them man, your frustration will dissapear!

the more girls you try to seduce the easyer it will beccome for you to talk to women, just go up to every girl you see and ask them back to your place, you are bound to find a few that want to fuck.

look them in one eye and then the other eye, and talk calm with confidence, "women like the one eye to anouther bit".

trust me man the more you try the better your odds, you will be surprised with the results.

peace.

I am obviously not there yet. :p

:) you sound like an atheist to be honest.

peace.

This same type of thinking caused Columbine and this VA Tech shooting...the shooters were all atheists what did they care if they killed innocent people? There's no God, no karma, no result of good and bad deeds, no afterlife, etc...so after the shooter kills themselves they win, its just a void after that and no bad consequences for the killings....
So, lack of religion causes problems?
There's no way we'll ever have a re-united Ireland... you can't force 1 million Protestant Unionists to join the Republic, you know how they hate us Catholics.

lack of religious believes with lack of power of will, is what causes the disaster.

Just saw , that there were 2 teachers among the dead ..........
I am still thinking about arming teachers ................
Just a thought ..........

So, lack of religion causes problems?

Not a lack of religion, suppressed anger + belief that after death there is nothingness

"suppressed anger + belief that after death there is nothingness"

i have been saying this for ages but alot of people like to ignore this fact that people are actualy deeply effected by the thought of one day not existing.

but people get defensive when i say things like this and they like to change the subject and get rude :)


peace

women like the one eye to anouther bit.

Haha...where did you learn that one...?

Just saw , that there were 2 teachers among the dead ..........
I am still thinking about arming teachers ................
Just a thought ..........That's not a solution, it's an arms race. The shooter would most likely go for the teacher first if this was true. Then the shooter has an undefended class.

Students carrying legally concealed weapons is an idea, but again, that's an arms race.

Sputnik


If this is true ............then god help America ..........


Check the laws in your country I think you will find it is the same, the police don't have to protect you as a individual, and don't have to respond if called, I would post on this but I don't know the case law in your country.

Haha...where did you learn that one...?

personal experience :)


peace.

i say give everybody a gun, then we are all equal, and if a fire fight breaks out anywhere we all have an equal chance of killing each other :)

there problem solved. vote empty for emporer of the world.

peace.

People ignore the actual cause. The cause isn't guns, violent videogames, or anything like that, its anger. As long as anger exists, things like this will continue to happen....

As a longtime public school employee I have to say I'm shocked the university had chains on the doors. In 2007! This District banned that old practice 15 years ago for fire safety reasons. No cameras on the campus?! In 2007? I know the university is there to educate, not prepare for massacres but every single building in my District has cameras inside and outside. A reaction to Columbine. It was very expensive but voters approved the bond overwhelmingly.
This university will have some backlash for the poor safety features and lack of security or organization. Once again we all watch the SWAT teams hiding behind trees wearing flak jackets. Once again they wait until the massacre is over then run inside.
The more I think of this event the more it turns my stomach.

and aslong as there is fear anger will exist.

young padawon :)

no but seriously

fear leads to frustration, frustration leads to anger, anger leads to murdering your entire class with an automatic weapon :)


peace.

you expect the police force or special weapons teams to actualy save some people? they are basicaly a glorified clean up crew :)

peace.

VitalOne,

People ignore the actual cause. The cause isn't guns, violent videogames, or anything like that, its anger. As long as anger exists, things like this will continue to happen....

I would tend to disagree, I think it is Respect, if you don't respect your self, you won't respect others, and you will receive no respect from them, and with out respect for others, their lives become unimportant to you and they can be killed with out mercy or thought because they don't matter in your life.

respect is important, but the root of respect is honor, wich very few people have these days.


peace.

you expect the police force or special weapons teams to actualy save some people? they are basicaly a glorified clean up crew :)

peace.Seems to be the case. Just like in every event like this they rush in, hide behind trees and cars then after the massacre they go in. Isn't the point to rush the bldg, put yourself in danger to save lives and apprehend/kill the perp? I know these cases are complicated but what use is a high tech SWAT team when they are hiding from the gunfire?

VitalOne,



I would tend to disagree, I think it is Respect, if you don't respect your self, you won't respect others, and you will receive no respect from them, and with out respect for others, their lives become unimportant to you and they can be killed with out mercy or thought because they don't matter in your life.
I agree to a certain extent with this notion. But this does not really contradict what I said. The cause is anger, anger it in itself has many other causes like the ones you described. Anger is frustration, desperation, craving, etc.....

and aslong as there is fear anger will exist.

y