Interesting from Wikipedia

As per the traditional astronomical back-projection by Vedic system, the event of the war between Rāma and Rāvana is supposed to have happened 880,148 years ago, as of April 09, 2006.

Was that in the time of Atlantis? Interesting though...

Interesting from Wikipedia

As per the traditional astronomical back-projection by Vedic system, the event of the war between Rāma and Rāvana is supposed to have happened 880,148 years ago, as of April 09, 2006.

Was that in the time of Atlantis? Interesting though...

How old is the Surya Vansh? Also, is the dating system based on the Sun?

Was that in the time of Atlantis? Interesting though...

You mean back in the time of fiction?

See

History of the uninterrupted Ganges valley civilization of India ... (http://encyclopediaofauthentichinduism.org/articles/50_total_age.htm)

You mean back in the time of fiction?

All past is fiction, unless you were there...

All past is fiction, unless you were there...

And you were?

Interesting from Wikipedia

As per the traditional astronomical back-projection by Vedic system, the event of the war between Rāma and Rāvana is supposed to have happened 880,148 years ago, as of April 09, 2006.

Was that in the time of Atlantis? Interesting though...

The Atlantis golden age was around 50,000 BCE (supposedly) but started much earlier 100,000s of years before...

Whats really interesting is that the Mahabharata speaks of an intelligent race of monkey-like beings (kimpuruṣas)....in which the dating of 800,000 years ago would make perfect sense (which is around the same time evolution puts an intelligent race of monkey-like beings existing)

The Atlantis golden age was around 50,000 BCE (supposedly) but started much earlier 100,000s of years before...
Assuming Atlantis actually existed.

Whats really interesting is that the Mahabharata speaks of an intelligent race of monkey-like beings (kimpuruṣas)....in which the dating of 800,000 years ago would make perfect sense (which is around the same time evolution puts an intelligent race of monkey-like beings existing)
Depending upon what "intelligent" means in each context of course.

The Atlantis golden age was around 50,000 BCE (supposedly) but started much earlier 100,000s of years before...

Whats really interesting is that the Mahabharata speaks of an intelligent race of monkey-like beings (kimpuruṣas)....in which the dating of 800,000 years ago would make perfect sense (which is around the same time evolution puts an intelligent race of monkey-like beings existing)

Could be the missing link or an entirely different specis....we all have a tail bone....

I was watching History channel last night about Edgar Cayce who said that Atlantis was a super modern city and got destroyed some 12,000 years ago. And that we will find evidence under the left paw of the Sphinx. Interesting

Depending upon what "intelligent" means in each context of course.

Warning: This is Eastern Philosophy section and not the pseudoscience section. Posts are subject to deletion if out of bound...or with sarcasm

Warning: This is Eastern Philosophy section and not the pseudoscience section. Posts are subject to deletion if out of bound...or with sarcasm

It wasn't sarcasm:

How did the Mahabharata define intelligence in the race of monkey-like beings and what level of intelligence is ascribed by evolution to those monkeys?

Not pseudoscience? And you're bringing Atlantis as a "super modern city" into Eastern philosophy? With Edgar Cayce as supporting evidence?

Assuming Atlantis actually existed.
Well yeah...obviously..


Depending upon what "intelligent" means in each context of course.
Very close to human-like intelligence.....not the same as regular monkeys...

Very close to human-like intelligence.....not the same as regular monkeys...
For BOTH sources? Evolution and the scripts?
The intelligence was evidenced by what means?

The intelligence was evidenced by what means?

Same means as the virgin birth, I think.What else could it be when discussing Eastern Philosophy? I guess hints do not work for *certain* people. :(

Who recorded the monkeys' presence? Were they intelligent enough to write?

Who recorded the monkeys' presence? Were they intelligent enough to write?

If you do not know the story of Ramayan or anything about the past history of Mahabharat (the extended Indian sub-continent), then it is a good idea to google some more before posting dumb comments. Thank you

Sorry. Just wondered how much it correlates with evolutionary theory as I've heard it.

just as a point of reference, the kimpurusas are descendants of the daughter of Daksa (one of the many progenitors of living enitites)

they are attributed to possessing mystic perfections

SB 4.18.20: Others also, the inhabitants of planets known as Kimpuruṣa-loka, made the demon Maya into a calf, and they milked out mystic powers by which one can disappear immediately from another's vision and appear again in a different form.

the very word kimpurusa means kim (what?) purusa (human) - in other words "what sort of human is this?". They have a range of appearances mixed with that of humanoids (not just monkeys)

In other words kimpurusas are clearly defined as something distinct from the animal species

Sorry. Just wondered how much it correlates with evolutionary theory as I've heard it.

This is my view as I heard from several gurus in India:

The Dasha Avatar describes pretty much the evolution process.

1. Fish
2. Tortoise
3. Boar
4. Man-beast
5. Dwarf
6. Parsurama - a person using stone tools
7. Rama - The king using bows and arrows
8. Sri Krishna - Cows, Agriculture
9. Buddha - Information age
10. Kalki - World Destruction [yet to come]

I think the process is non-linear over time with an exponential structure

While Ramayana talks about Monkey people, I do not think they were just large monkeys. Perhaps they were a different human specis like Neanderthals with tails and facial feature somewhat different than humans perhaps a separate but common stock - if that time line is correct.

Edgar Cayce says " In the period, then - some hundred, some ninety-eight thousand years before the entry of Ram into India there lived in this land of Atlantis one Amilius, who had first NOTED that of the separations of the beings as inhabited that portion of the earth's sphere or plane of those peoples into male and female as separate entities, or individuals "

I can't find what date Cayce puts Amilius to have existed...but he said something about 200,000 light years ??? If Cayce puts Amilius's existence to be around 1 million years ago then the 880,000 year figure would match...

just as a point of reference, the kimpurusas are descendants of the daughter of Daksa (one of the many progenitors of living enitites)

they are attributed to possessing mystic perfections

SB 4.18.20: Others also, the inhabitants of planets known as Kimpuruṣa-loka, made the demon Maya into a calf, and they milked out mystic powers by which one can disappear immediately from another's vision and appear again in a different form.

the very word kimpurusa means kim (what?) purusa (human) - in other words "what sort of human is this?". They have a range of appearances mixed with that of humanoids (not just monkeys)

In other words kimpurusas are clearly defined as something distinct from the animal species

Kimpurusa-loka is something like the planet of the apes...

The SB Commentary states:
"The Kimpuruṣas are so called because they resemble human beings and thus prompt the question kiḿ puruṣāḥ: "Are these human beings?" Actually, they are a race of monkeys who are almost like human beings"

So let's see what non-homo sapien species there are (dating is according to what modern evolution says):
Homo cepranensis 800,000 years ago
Homo antecessor 800,000-350,000 years ago
Homo heidelbergensis 600,000-250,000 years ago
Homo neanderthalensis 230,000–30,000 years ago
Homo rhodesiensis 300,000–120,000 years ago

So assuming the Mahabharata is an accurate historical text, and they really observed an intelligent race of monkey-like beings, it had to be at least 200,000 years ago...

http://www.nautiloid.net/peanut/nyc/laetoli.jpghttp://content.answers.com/main/content/wp/en/4/46/Hanuman.jpg

Same means as the virgin birth, I think.What else could it be when discussing Eastern Philosophy? I guess hints do not work for *certain* people. :(

My apologies.
I obviously misunderstand the difference between philosophy and pseudoscience.

Atlantis? Planet of the Apes? So assuming the Mahabharata is an accurate historical text, and they really observed an intelligent race of monkey-like beings, it had to be at least 200,000 years ago... :shrug:

You do realise this is the philosophy section? Philosophy is the use of reasoning regarding information.

Yup, but some of the underlying assumptions here are... umm, debatable :)
False premises, false conclusions.
How does it differ from pseudoscience? No requirement for verifiability?

Yup, but some of the underlying assumptions here are... umm, debatable :)
False premises, false conclusions.
How does it differ from pseudoscience? No requirement for verifiability?

Thats why they are exploring it? Assumptions can lead to clarification, yes?

They can, sometimes. But assuming (as kmguru seems to have done)
Was that in the time of Atlantis? Interesting though...
that the evidence is a priori correct, and unquestioned, isn't what I learnt in my philosophy classes.

They can, sometimes. But assuming (as kmguru seems to have done)

that the evidence is a priori correct, and unquestioned, isn't what I learnt in my philosophy classes.

I think you're assuming too much.:)

Possible.
I'll keep an eye out.

Its an Eastern style discussion, there are rules of politeness and openmindedness, and giving an ear to all ideas, without necessarily agreeing with any of them. :)

Ahhh. Forgive my Western, engineering-type lack of sensibilities.
Switch is now flipped and I will follow with considerably more interest.
Thank you for the lesson, Saiyyadati.

While Ramayana talks about Monkey people, I do not think they were just large monkeys. Perhaps they were a different human specis like Neanderthals with tails and facial feature somewhat different than humans perhaps a separate but common stock - if that time line is correct.

But they could be some kind of monkey-ish. The references to the tail and the ability to jump are clear and numerous.

Intelligent beings, however.

Most Hindus (about a billion) believe Ramayan is a historical fact. Now, the point of this post is to figure out if it is possible that such activities took place and the degree of civilization at the time. Since Ramayan was dated using star charts that was written in to the epic, let us assume that there was such a civilization.

Then we can speculate how one is going to find a way to prove such items without depending on the western hemisphere people whose development came just recently who until recently lived in a flat world. Friedman even wrote a book on it :-)

Would there be an archeological evidence that happened some 880,000 years ago? Would equipments be preserved for that long under ground or in caves. I think any metal would have been oxidized long ago.

With India's economic success, I am sure, Indian archeologists would be combing the area for such finds. As they dig for coal, buxite, iron ore, I hope, when they find strange stuff, they stop digging with those automated heavy machines and look closely. Otherwise, those items will be gone forever and we will never know the truth either way.

Yup, but some of the underlying assumptions here are... umm, debatable :)
False premises, false conclusions.
How does it differ from pseudoscience? No requirement for verifiability?

Well were just speculating right now...first we speculate...then gather evidence...then after all that's done it should be open to critical scrutiny...but right now we're just speculating...its just pure speculation and could all be BS

Well were just speculating right now...first we speculate...then gather evidence...then after all that's done it should be open to critical scrutiny...but right now we're just speculating...its just pure speculation and could all be BS

Yah, thanks. Sam put me right, I wasn't aware of the procedure. :o

Then we can speculate how one is going to find a way to prove such items without depending on the western hemisphere people whose development came just recently who until recently lived in a flat world. Friedman even wrote a book on it :-)
I know it's all relative but do you class 2,000+ years as "recent" for flat world?

According to scientific data, agriculture started in the Middle East about 12.000 years ago.

And humans in Mesoamerica started the foundation on organized religion about 6.000 years ago

On the other hand, 23 to 5 million years before the present (Miocene epoch) is uncertain, but it was a planet of the apes!!
During the Miocene epoch, as many as 100 species of apes roamed throughout the Old World. New fossils suggest that the ones that gave rise to living great apes and humans evolved not in Africa but Eurasia.

Is just confusing, I don´t think we are going to get anywere

But they could be some kind of monkey-ish. The references to the tail and the ability to jump are clear and numerous.

Intelligent beings, however.

Well if they had tails then it makes no sense at all from an evolutionary stand-point...not even chimpanzees nor Gorillas have tails...although what does make sense is their jumping ability...with a tail you'd have a greater balance and greater agility...

Well if they had tails then it makes no sense at all from an evolutionary stand-point...not even chimpanzees nor Gorillas have tails...although what does make sense is their jumping ability...with a tail you'd have a greater balance and greater agility...


You are very correct. That is why, they disappeared. Survival of the fittest. Sometimes nature produces creatures that may make sense at the time, but as planet evolves, some just could not make it....the same thing could happen if the glaciers all melt...we will kill each other to eat. Yuk!!

Yah, thanks. Sam put me right, I wasn't aware of the procedure.
I know it's all relative but do you class 2,000+ years as "recent" for flat world?

You are still not getting it. If you are an engineer, you know what Systems Dynamics is. If not, get the text book that is taught at MIT called "Business Dynamics" (John D. Sherman) - then you will have a better understanding of the methodology and processes we use here.

Another three books I recommend are:

A New kind of Science - Stephen Wolfram
On Intelligence - Jeff Hawkings
The Singularity is near - Ray Kurzweil

Then, a smart person like you, will really be in the grove.:m:

[I use the ultra latest model of human knowledge to do datamining of anceint Indian thoughts. I do not like to blow my own horn, but trust me, I do have the education and experience to match]