I want to see what your thoughts are concerning cryonics. Do you think there is a chance that science will be able to revive a frozen human brain someday and have that person be restored to a normal life at some point in the future when all sorts of new things are scientifically possible?

It seems that a lot of people think it is quackery, but imo, it is about having "faith" in future science, as opposed to a god. That gives me a bit of hope.

(I just read The First Immortal, by James L. Halperin.)

i plan on being frozen,it beats the hell out of the alternitive of dying.

only those who are frozen will have a chance at being revived.

http://www.buzzle.com/editorials/3-16-2006-91291.asp

I've lost a few ice creams and a packet of peas in a similar situation

i plan on being frozen,it beats the hell out of the alternitive of dying.

only those who are frozen will have a chance at being revived.

I agree. There is no promise that it will be possible to be revived in the future, but there is at least hope. This, to me, is the answer to the religious when they say, "Well, what happens to you (atheist) when you die?" I have much more faith in science being able to return my brain to life at some point in the future than I do that some god will.
http://www.buzzle.com/editorials/3-16-2006-91291.asp

I've lost a few ice creams and a packet of peas in a similar situationThough most of the largest institutes in America don't rely on electricity to keep their patients frozen (they use liquid nitrogen, which requires no electricity), there is always the chance that you will be prematurely thawed for some reason: religious terrorism, religious zealots in the courts, human error, ignorance in society, whatever. However, if you have yourself frozen at death, there is a chance, a chance, that you will wake up in the year 3000 like Fry. :)

A few facts:

Right now, there are two non-profit organizations (among others), the Cryonics Institute in Michigan (founded by Robert Ettinger) and Alcor Life Extension Foundation in Arizona, that seem to be fairly highly regarded (though Alcor did have a problem of some sort with Ted Williams (the baseball player) last year).

Alcor: "As of March 2006, Alcor had 789 members, and 74 patients in cryopreservation."

http://www.alcor.org/epilogue.html

Cryonics Institute (As of April 1, 2006):

Total Members: 581

Funded Members with Contracts: 250

Human Patients in Cryostasis: 73

Human Tissue/DNA Samples in Cryostasis: 81

Pets in Cryostasis: 42

Pet Tissue/DNA Samples in Cryostasis: 10

http://www.cryonics.org/

For the costs below, a lot of people use Life Insurance to pay for the fees.

Alcor costs:

* $150,000.00 Whole Body Suspension ($65,000 to the Patient Care Trust, $70,000 for cryonic suspension, $15,000.00 to the CMS Fund).

* $ 80,000.00 Neurosuspension (brain only) ($25,000 to the Patient Care Trust, $40,000 for cryonic suspension, $15,000.00 to the CMS Fund).

Cryonics Institute costs: They only do whole-body suspensions and they charge $28,000. This price hasn't changed since they were founded in 1976. They do not include Standby or Transport in this price. The company that they recommend (Suspended Animation out of Florida) charges about another $25,000 for the Standby and Transport (though they have some cheaper plans).

Standby: They have technicians that come to your hospital bed (preferably before you die) and wait until death is announced. Then, they start the process before ischemia starts.

Transport: Transporting you to the facility where your body will be cryonically frozen until the time in the future when you will be reivived.

These are just two examples to give you an idea of what is going on right now.

Anyone who's ever tried to cheap out and buy a lot of meat on sale, freeze it, and then thaw it out to eat knows the answer to this one.

Remember that water is a unique chemical compound because its density decreases when it freezes. Ice takes up more volume than the equivalent amount of water. This means that when you freeze organic tissue, which is mostly water, the ice crystals burst the cellular membranes and turn it all into bad-tasting leftover frozen steak.

It's certainly conceivable that when they discover all those cryonically frozen people five hundred years from now, they'll have the nanotechnology to repair the damaged cells so they can be brought back to "life" and not simply become necrotic all at once.

But do you really think the information that was stored in those cells will have survived their original ham-fisted 21st century destruction by freezing? By the time the Star Fleet doctors try to put you back together, your thoughts will have been irreparably lost for hundreds of years.

We'll need a way to store the information in the brain cybernetically, not just the physical structure.

The answer that I see them give to that is that they either use what they call cryoprotectants like glycerol, ethylene glycerol, and dimethylsulfoxide to affect the way the cells in the brain freeze, or they use a process called vitrification, depending on the organization.

From the Alcor website:

Q: What is a cryoprotectant?

A: A cryoprotectant is a small molecule that easily penetrates inside cells and that depresses the freezing point of water. Glycerol, ethylene glycerol, and dimethylsulfoxide (DMSO) are examples.

Q: How is cryoprotectant administered?

A: In cryonics, cryoprotectant solutions are administered through the circulatory system of the patient so that cryoprotectant enters almost every cell of the body. This process is done near a temperature of O°C (32°F) over several hours, during which the cryoprotectant concentration slowly rises to more than 8 Molar (greater than 50%). (Isolated organs are subjected to similar protocols in organ banking research.) Amazingly, living cells can survive replacement of more than 50% of the water inside them with other molecules -- if introduction and removal is done at low temperature.

Q: How do cryoprotectants protect cells?

A: When tissue is slowly cooled, ice first forms between cells. The growing ice crystals increase the concentration of solutes in the remaining liquid around them, causing osmotic dehydration of cells. If cryoprotectants are present, the freezing point of the unfrozen solution drops sooner and faster, limiting the total amount of ice that forms. As the temperature drops below -40°C, the cryoprotectant concentration becomes so high in the remaining unfrozen solution that ice stops growing. Cells survive suspended in the residual unfrozen liquid between ice crystals. As the temperature drops below about -100°C, this unfrozen solution containing the cells becomes a glassy solid.

Q: What is vitrification?

A: During ordinary freezing, the cryoprotectant concentration between ice crystals becomes so high that ice growth eventually stops. What if you start with a cryoprotectant concentration that is so high to begin with that ice never forms at all? That is vitrification. The combination of rapid cooling and high cryoprotectant concentration to completely avoid ice formation was first suggested in the paper, "Vitrification as an Approach to Cryopreservation" (Cryobiology 21, 407-426 (1984)). Embryos, ova, skin, pancreatic islets, blood cells, blood vessels, and other tissues have since been successfully vitrified. Whole kidneys have been reversibly cooled to -50°C (-58°F) with full recovery when protected by vitrification solutions. Vitrification is now widely regarded as the most promising approach for long-term banking of large organs.


The real question to me, Fraggle, is whether you want a chance at immortality or not.

But do you really think the information that was stored in those cells will have survived their original ham-fisted 21st century destruction by freezing? I think there is a chance, and that is more than you will have if you are buried or cremated or mummified.

We'll need a way to store the information in the brain cybernetically, not just the physical structure.How do you think the information in the brain (long-term memory) is stored? Isn't the information itself just a physical and chemical structure? In my opinion, being able to repair cells at the molecular level someday will overcome this.

I'd really like to be frozen. Cheating death would be great. I just hope that I'll have that kind of money by the time I die.

I'd really like to be frozen. Cheating death would be great. I just hope that I'll have that kind of money by the time I die.

Get yourself a life insurance policy now while your in good health and it is cheaper. The cryo places take life insurance policies as payment.

The whole idea of cryonics compleletely illustrates--for me--that so-called atheism carries on with the patriarchal religious myth albeit unconsciously.

how do imean?

well, the patriarchal 'heroic' dream from te first is to escape 'MOTHER'---escape Mother Hature, which the patriarchal mind thinks is a trap. Keepin the 'male spirit' tied to cycles of life and death. It therefore demands immortality. And in its modern version it believes he will get this by keeping his brain in frozen suspension!

The WHOLEpoint of death is this, it constantly renews, refreeshes. 'Death' is not just an end point, a terminal, it is interfused throughout life. life and death are like warp and woof. you couldn't havemovment witout te constant DEATHof movement. And this process HASto include the actual death of organism, in order for there to be regeneration.

But you see the patriarchal man wants order. he doesn't want to yield to the unknown of post mortem death. he wan ts 'paradises' assured or 'nothing but death' what ever that means....? or a frozen brain!

Duendy, you are too funny. LOL. Are you saying that if you had the chance to see the year 3000, you wouldn't take it, no matter how small?

Duendy, you are too funny. LOL.

me)))actually i'm being deadly serious Cotton....

Are you saying that if you had the chance to see the year 3000, you wouldn't take it, no matter how small?

me))OK. what IS 'you'? this is also a serious question. we know we arehere right. i am here typing this and you are way over there, soon going to read it. if you weren't tere and me not here we couldn't even play this game. for us to be i am me and you is you.
Just then heard a dog bark. the dog is beng her or him.
what does we all share? we are aware

ALL of Nature is aware. the materialists hafve got it wrong. the ones that have come up wit the idea of cryonics. they believe that only complex matterproduces consciousness---and thew human brain for tem is top dog. henc of bleedin COURSE from that idea comes the idea of freezin it so as to restore consciousness....!

But if you can understand that Nature is deeply intelligent and aware, the tere isn't that absurd notion of freezing brains to bring 'you' back

relly wat 'you' is is but the tip of an interfused communion with all Nature, which is an intelligent process of life death and regeneration

Just go WITH it is all

Well, until there is proof that mother nature is conscious, I'll stick with freezing myself. If it takes a 1000 years to determine that she is conscious, then in a 1000 years, I'll decide whether I should die or not. :) Surely she doesn't need me right away.

Well, until there is proof that mother nature is conscious, I'll stick with freezing myself. If it takes a 1000 years to determine that she is conscious, then in a 1000 years, I'll decide whether I should die or not. :)
Ya know Cotton, you've said over the time, that you despair of many people---their apathy, seeming deadness regarding proper reponsibility for what actually is going on in thew world, etc. well me too. but i have used tis despair to really seek to kow why i feel like tis, and why things is the way they are. has kept me errr sane

For last 500years and post enlightenemnt there has been a relentless mechanisation of 'our' understanding of ourselves and Nature

This shit has seriously alientated us---and to make it wors it grew OUT of the relentless alienating belief systems of Judaic Christinity, which indoctrnated the belief that we are guilty and can expect heaven or hell depending on how like 'sheep' or 'goats' we were....!!

so we are talking hundreds of fukin years of being battered with silly male-supremacist/patriarchal notions about Nature and what we are

Time to fuuuukin ENDthis crap is what i am about. Big style!!!!!!!!

For now very Nature is serously under treat. tis is no game. we HAVE to act. if only individually

The Indigenous understanding----you know, the peoples that te mindset described above crushed, commited genocide on, tortured, burnt at the stake, hung, suppressed, made slaves, 'untouchables, druged with their 'meds', etc etc-----DID understand Nature to be alive, aware, intelligent

So, as a friend, i am encouraging you to take me seriously as i am speaking from the heart to you, and to drop this cryonics trip and research about how Nature is alifve.....

I hear you duendy, but until you can show me proof, documented proof, that nature is conscious, you will continue to sound just as bad as the christians, jews, muslims and mormons of the world. Do you realize that that is how you sound when you talk about nature?

I'd much rather have my friends use my body for practical jokes then pretend I could live forever.

You know, I think you could make a pretty good business out of this. Tell suckers you'll freeze their corpse so they can live forever. When they die, take their money and dump the body.

Yeah, you could do that Roman. I'm sure some have. One company in California comes to mind. It's no longer in business and the owners are in jail.

There are a lot of people out there who believe in what they are doing. Who have been frozen by the organizations that they founded. Cryonics Institute is one such place.

If you do get "dumped" though, by a scum-bag, that is on you, and you will be no worse off than any of the rest of the world being buried or cremated. Short a few dollars, but who gives a shit about money, right? If I'm frozen and revived 50 years from now, I'll look you up, if you are still around.

I'd much rather have my friends use my body for practical jokes then pretend I could live forever.

You know, I think you could make a pretty good business out of this. Tell suckers you'll freeze their corpse so they can live forever. When they die, take their money and dump the body.
WO somthin we agree on. let's milk it....
Yeah, Crytonics is modern-idea equivalent of the ancinent Eygptian idea of mummifying bodies sos their 'owners' could come back and parTAY. of couuuuurse it qas only the rich, anting to keep on hangin on who got to do it. as lookin at the cost of crytonics is same old same old.

How much does a legal burial run you duendy? With, say, a casket, headstone and funeral service, not to mention the burial plot itself? Compare whatever figure you come up with for that to $28,000, which is what the Cryonics Institute charges to freeze and store your whole body for the forseeable future.

I hear you duendy, but until you can show me proof, documented proof, that nature is conscious,

me))))documented proof hey? tat very idea-demand comes FROm thematerialistic idea that only thru measure can you know....! that aything that cant be measured must be false. and underlying tis attitude is the object/object dichotomy which patriarchy has created amongst its many followers both 'religious' and 'secular'. Rather the actual FEELER, YOU is how you come to understand and feel Nature is alive. this shit dont come in a test tube or peer reviewed paper. tho of course it can include analysis and reasn. but therehas to bea point you FEEL it, as in sense of deep connection with environment and this is not measureable

you will continue to sound just as bad as the christians, jews, muslims and mormons of the world. Do you realize that that is how you sound when you talk about nature?
then you have obviously totally misunderstood me completely mate. Christian Muslims and Jews and Mormons are belief systems all stemming from the patriarchy. liaten close. theyt do NOT believe that Nature is live. in fact they want out and/or to 'spiritualize' Nature from its 'fallen' state. The Indigenous understanding is that Nature already IS alife, IS sacred. and by 'sacred' i am not meaning how patriarchs have appropriated the term to mean divided from the 'profane'. for what the patriarchs did/do is ABSTRACT sacred put of Natue and put it in the sky etc, thus de-spiritualizing Nature and guilting its believers to believe they are born in sin, or must cowtow to a 'God'

so sorry dude. i a not sounding like them at all........?

Christian Muslims and Jews and Mormons are belief systems all stemming from the patriarchy. So, you'd have me trade a patriarchal belief in an imaginary god for a matriarchal belief in an imaginary, conscious mother nature. Get real.
so sorry dude. i a not sounding like them at all........?No, you're right. You aren't sounding like them at all.

If you are going to discount all legitimate science, in order to expound upon your tired argument for mother nature (as equally old and decrepit a belief system as christianity, judaism, islam and too many other old, archaic belief systems to name) -- then please listen. I hear what you're saying, and I don't need to hear it anymore.

Please stick to the topic of cryonics here, if you don't mind terribly much.

Actually i do mind, and wont. of course you can ignore what i say, that's up to you, but if you could see, this isn't just an isolated ubject, tis has to include what i am fukin talkin about. actualy no issue is specialized in essense. so....to continue then!

So, you'd have me trade a patriarchal belief in an imaginary god for a matriarchal belief in an imaginary, conscious mother nature. Get real.

me))))))alright i can dig what you mean. you are beliving you can be had by both, and you, being the hard heDED DUDE YO IS DONT WANT NO MORE BULLCRAP. YOU WANT REsults, evidence. certainty.
well i am encouraging you to then study more closely what i am saying is all. this is not a criminal offence is it....???
the whole transition from prepatriarchal to patriarchal is a huge difference psychologically. for xample. in every institution, take the ingrained notion that the male 'MUST' separate from mother. This idea is edmic in patriarchal culture.
In psychoanalysis we have had Frued calim that the desire for bliss , ecstasy, pleasure is the 'regressive' need to 'reurn to the womb'. all implying a put-down
But rally our deepness IS that, and this is what patriarchy suppresses. it suppresses ecstatc expresion with its war on it. it doesn't want us being emotional and despairing about the way things is going with this crazy shit----which i had ASSUMED YOU were 'tired of???--and seek to drug it away and claim it is merely 'chemical imbalnce' etc. wit me? so this shit goes right to the heart of what actually ar feeling right now. it's no littel thing.

No, you're right. You aren't sounding like them at all.

If you are going to discount all legitimate science, in order to expound upon your tired argument for mother nature (as equally old and decrepit a belief system as christianity, judaism, islam and too many other old, archaic belief systems to name) -- then please listen. I hear what you're saying, and I don't need to hear it anymore.

me)))oh what am i fukin botherin wid you for. fuck you. i tried to be a friend and you've thrown it in my face. go and gett your silly fukin brain frozen. like i care....??

Please stick to the topic of cryonics here, if you don't mind terribly much.
STICK IT WHERE THE SUN DONT SHINE I'M OUTTA HERE AND YO LIFE!

Now, how much does a normal burial cost?

Now, how much does a normal burial cost?

Like the kind the funeral director tells you is "normal?" Tens of thousands of dollars, and most of it is gonna be buried with you. 28 grand sounded about right.

Burial is outdated. It's for those that think Gawd will raise them come the rapture or whatever. Just wrap me in newspaper and leave me for the trash man. Or better yet, turn me into mulch and fertilize the plants with it. Then, after the plants mature, my friends and family could eat them. That way I could live on, forever! Or, I could just have kids.

What's freezing cost?

If cryoprotectants are present, the freezing point of the unfrozen solution drops sooner and faster, limiting the total amount of ice that forms.


I wouldn't trust anything that wasn't 100%. This process looks to me like it REDUCES the strawberry effect as opposed to eliminating it. I could picture those who went through the procedure being thawed out, and encounter some pretty nasty hemorrhaging on the various spots where the solution failed.

Like the kind the funeral director tells you is "normal?" Tens of thousands of dollars, and most of it is gonna be buried with you. 28 grand sounded about right.
What's freezing cost?At the Cryonics Institute, they charge $28,000 for a whole-body suspension. That's where that number came from. Reference my third post in this thread for the details of two of the largest organizations that are freezing people.

I wouldn't trust anything that wasn't 100%. This process looks to me like it REDUCES the strawberry effect as opposed to eliminating it. I could picture those who went through the procedure being thawed out, and encounter some pretty nasty hemorrhaging on the various spots where the solution failed.This isn't a guarantee. It's a chance. By the time that you are thawed, technology, however, should be sufficient to overcome almost any obstacle. Long term memory is the important part, and it's stored in many places all over the brain. Not in just one cell or cluster of cells. Redundancy. The physical problems of having a body brought back to life will be the easy part.

Why would you want to be the un-frozen caveman lawyer (http://snltranscripts.jt.org/91/91gcaveman.phtml)?
Your world frightens and confuses me! Sometimes the honking horns of your traffic make me want to get out of my BMW.. and run off into the hills, or wherever.. Sometimes when I get a message on my fax machine, I wonder: "Did little demons get inside and type it?" I don't know! My primitive mind can't grasp these concepts.
What makes you think the future would want you around anyway? Except as a novelty.

And a head in a jar?
Oooh.

Head in a jar. Head in a jar.
I want to be a head in a jar.
Can I stand in line to be a head in a jar?
Will I get a lot of pussy being a head in a jar?
Who'll drive my car when I'm a head in a jar?
Will I get very far as a head in a jar?
I don't know and no one can say.
But I really want to be a head in a jar.....

That was an original composition by yours truly.
Worship me.

Anyway. It would suck to be a head in a jar.
And it would suck to get made fun of for being a slow and primitive screwhead.
There is no time like the present.


By the way, Timothy Leary was signed up to be a head in a jar. But he apparently got into some kind of squabble with Alcor and opted out. Now instead of a head in a jar, he's ash in a jar....

Is there really much difference?


Also.
Even the cardboard box to get cremated in costs 100 bucks....

Why would you want to be the un-frozen caveman lawyer (http://snltranscripts.jt.org/91/91gcaveman.phtml)?Because I'm in love with Amy Wong!
What makes you think the future would want you around anyway? Except as a novelty.After another few thousand years, they might forget that I'm a novelty. Hell, it might only take a few decades for them and myself to forget.
And a head in a jar?
Oooh.

Head in a jar. Head in a jar.
I want to be a head in a jar.
Can I stand in line to be a head in a jar?
Will I get a lot of pussy being a head in a jar?
Who'll drive my car when I'm a head in a jar?
Will I get very far as a head in a jar?
I don't know and no one can say.
But I really want to be a head in a jar.....
Do you think that we will never be able to transplant a brain into a newly grown body?
That was an original composition by yours truly.
Worship me.
All praise the ancient of days.
Anyway. It would suck to be a head in a jar.
And it would suck to get made fun of for being a slow and primitive screwhead.Hey, if that's your biggest worry, I don't think you'll have any problems. Get lost in new designer drugs that have no negative physical consequences while fucking Catherine the Great's brains out in a VR machine. They'll never know you. If this was a jab at me, blow me.

There is no time like the present.Or the present 1000 years from now.


By the way, Timothy Leary was signed up to be a head in a jar. But he apparently got into some kind of squabble with Alcor and opted out. Now instead of a head in a jar, he's ash in a jar....
Apparently he changed his mind after a fallout with members of CryoCare (a company that split from Alcor in 1993) over his wanting to commit suicide as a sufferer from prostate cancer and CryoCare's desire that everything be on the up-and-up. Here is an article from the LA Times about it: http://rae.tnir.org/documents/2005/cryonics/latimes/1996-05-09.html


Is there really much difference?If you want to live, there could be. You may wonder at my choice in this matter, seeing as how I hate life and all. However, my hope is that in 50 or a 100 years there will be much more understanding of depression and all the other reasons that I hate life.
Also.
Even the cardboard box to get cremated in costs 100 bucks....I don't doubt it.

I definitely want to be frozen, have the chance to see what the future may be like, ok so its only a chance but who knows what the advances of nanotechnology and technology we can only dream of may bring in 500 to a thousand years if the human race still exists.

Think of it this way it would be like falling asleep and waking up the next day so to me even the smallest chance of being woken up appeals to me, as technology gets more and more advanced this "smallest chance" would become a "bigger chance",

what would suck though is if I were put into some ROBOCOP by the government to fight some sort of Cyberwar, but hey thats the chance I am willing to take.

I respect people who believe in God and the afterlife and I am open minded about such subjects, but I wish people would also respect peoples wishes and beliefs on such subjects as these, instead of try to ridicule them.

Who are you to say that technology won't exist in the future to bring people back to life who have been frozen.
Who am I to say God doesn't exist.

just let me say as way of final goodbye tothis thread....all yo idiots who want yer brians frozen?...well yer half way there already!

Think of it this way it would be like falling asleep and waking up the next day so to me even the smallest chance of being woken up appeals to me, as technology gets more and more advanced this "smallest chance" would become a "bigger chance",That's what I'm hoping for. I think you are right about the chances getting better and better every day. The more people that get interested in this, the more money there will be to research the technology that will someday revive those of us who chose to do this.

Think about this. There may exist the technology right now to prevent the death of another human being, ever.

Well the main problem with cryogenics is how fast freezing and unfreezing is done. Basically if a new technology was developed in freezing the body very fast, say by instant liquid nitrogen submersion...not sure how...this will allow the cells to freeze without turning into crystals. However the unfreezing part is much more complicated...The only way I imagine of unfreezing the body is one cell at a time using nanotechnology, nanorotobots that unfreeze the cell and make an illusion of the cell membrane as though it was in a regular state around cells. Thus if each cell was processed at a time using nanorobots that would have specific chemicals and water release and absorption to fake the cell environment...the unfreezing can be done. The main problem here is of course the nanotechnology itself, so far the only advance in nanotechnology that was done up to this day is the nano-engine, acts something like the muscle...uses potassium and sodium pumps...

So yes I would say that to be able to freeze a person and unfreeze him it would need the development of nanotechnology

Another problem is of course the CHOICE. Do you really want to be frozen and unfrozen and then face the future with all its curiocity and the feeling of being out of place, a feeling of not being connected to the surroundings? Do you by any chance accept a possibility that death is a beginning of a new life? That death is when you loose your body and memories but your consciousness transcends into another body? Wouldnt that be great to have a bold new future, new possibilities ahead of you?

The problem as I see it is not whether it works, but if it works.

Imagine, you 'die' aged 66 for example, and are revived some 60 yrs later. In your brain you will be 66 having closed your eyes for a moment and woken up in new body. All your loved ones will be dead or themselves frozen or themselves in new bodies, or very aged. What would be the psychological impact of this?

Remember, even though 60 yrs have passed, to you, only moments will have passed. You will not have had any time to be mentally prepared for what awaits you when you awake, it will be like waking up in a dream and remaining in it. Your past life entirely lost.

Think about this. There may exist the technology right now to prevent the death of another human being, ever.

We will have enormous problems with population explosion if we develop technology wherein we do not die ever! How do we viably support every new living being as well as every being that existed before them? Logans Run springs to mind.

Dragon and ToR, you two are free to die, if you like. That is your choice, not mine. If there is a god, dragon, I can always choose to take that risk of finding out at some point in the future. There is no rush, and, perhaps, through the process of cryonics, an answer will be found to the age-old question of god or no god.

As to population explosion, we will find an answer.

You will not have had any time to be mentally prepared for what awaits you when you awake, it will be like waking up in a dream and remaining in it. Your past life entirely lost.And a new one waiting to be started. It will be like having a second chance at life. A chance to start over. To do things differently. With no rush whatsoever. Imagine knowing that you could live forever. Imagine everyone knowing that they could live forever. Imagine exploring new worlds, new stars, finding new life in the universe. To me, the promise and the payoff are worth the small risk of never finding god.

Face it, and accept it. YOU ARE GOING TO DIE. Everyone dies. It's not THAT big of a deal, really. There are infinitely more-significant endeavors the human race should be working on.

I'm not gonna miss your dumb ass, dsds. Did you know that in the future even someone like you can be smart?

Face it, and accept it. YOU ARE GOING TO DIE. Everyone dies. It's not THAT big of a deal, really. There are infinitely more-significant endeavors the human race should be working on.


I know I'm going to die. But I don't know whether I'll be brought back to life. That's what he is talking about. I mean, hey, it'd be so pimp to see the year 3000. Although It would suck knowing that everyone you knew was dead. Unless they were frozen as well. Now that would be super hella pimp.

LOL. Yes, super hella pimp. I wonder though. Even if the people you knew from this time period were not around in the future when you were revived, how long would it take for you to make new friends? I can understand missing your brothers, mother or father, a spouse or your best friend, but after another 1000 years, would they be anymore than just a distant memory? Wouldn't we just go on, like we do now when we lose someone close?

What makes you think you'll be welcomed in the future? If you're among the first to be successfully thawed (after 1000 years), you'll be studied and probed like a lab rat. After the scientists are done with you, you'll be regarded as an alien or circus freak. How would you live? Where will you work? You think you'll wake up, turn on your computer, and start posting on sciforums? How presumptious and conceded to believe that future societies will support you and hold your hand just so you can satisfy your curiousity.

It's "conceited" you fool, not conceded. Come on, concede the point, moron. You are another one that can be worm-food for all I care. In fact, let me encourage you to buy a burial plot today.

Yes you are "conceited", thank you for the correction.
My God are you for real? You actually believe dieing is an option. I shudder to think of future populations being infested with insecure idiots. I’m sorry if I threatened your dream of a second chance at life (where you would do things differently) – What, you’re first attempt is not going very well? Not happy with your (or your lack of) wife, kids, career? Well, not to worry. Soon it will be over and you’ll be revived one day in a peaceful world in a garden filled with roses and lilies. A world where you can “do things differently” and achieve your dreams of happiness. Just imagine, you won’t feel so insecure anymore! And you won’t feel the need to stomp on my worm infested grave!

What makes you think you'll be welcomed in the future? If you're among the first to be successfully thawed (after 1000 years), you'll be studied and probed like a lab rat. After the scientists are done with you, you'll be regarded as an alien or circus freak. How would you live? Where will you work?

Your question makes me ponder what it would be like if an individual from medieval times (~1000 a.d.) was revived today. I don't think the person would be considered under-evolved, but I do see where all of his/her mannerisms, habits, and culture may make it hard to adjust.
The person would be faced with the daunting task of learning a bunch of new technology (which is no problem since alot of it is easy to learn.......excluding that which requires literacy). Other than that, the experience would be comparable to living in a foreign coutry. Eventually, the person would learn our ways, and get used to it.

BTW-- this is just a guess. I don't have many facts to back it up other than an estimation based on human nature

Your question makes me ponder what it would be like if an individual from medieval times (~1000 a.d.) was revived today. I don't think the person would be considered under-evolved, but I do see where all of his/her mannerisms, habits, and culture may make it hard to adjust.
The person would be faced with the daunting task of learning a bunch of new technology (which is no problem since alot of it is easy to learn.......excluding that which requires literacy). Other than that, the experience would be comparable to living in a foreign coutry. Eventually, the person would learn our ways, and get used to it.

BTW-- this is just a guess. I don't have many facts to back it up other than an estimation based on human nature

I don't think it would be easy at all. I doubt it would even be possible for an "average" person from 1000 years ago to be able to adjust socially. (women's rights, racism, science vs religion, etc.. ).. Remember, we're not talking about a baby. We're talking about a wrinkled 80 year old geezer who would have to start over. A baby starts off with a clean slate. The geezer's slate would have to be practically wiped clean before he can be re-integrated. Where would he/she work? Macdonalds? Someone who can afford to be cryonically preserved would have a high social class today and would never accept working in the future's "Macdonalds".

LOL. Yes, super hella pimp. I wonder though. Even if the people you knew from this time period were not around in the future when you were revived, how long would it take for you to make new friends? I can understand missing your brothers, mother or father, a spouse or your best friend, but after another 1000 years, would they be anymore than just a distant memory? Wouldn't we just go on, like we do now when we lose someone close?


Well to you it would only seem like yesterday...literally...

You would have no memory of being frozen I'm guesssing. You just died, and then woke up. Or just woke up from life. It would be very confusing.

Well to you it would only seem like yesterday...literally...

You would have no memory of being frozen I'm guesssing. You just died, and then woke up. Or just woke up from life. It would be very confusing.

It could also be very enlightening, and very exciting, imo. It might be a way of confirming or denying the existence of god and heaven or hell. If you died, were frozen, went to either heaven or hell, and then were revived, you might be either thankful or angry that you were revived. Either way, we might shed some light on the whole god issue.

Otherwise, if you were revived successfully, and didn't encounter heaven or hell, I would imagine that you'd be very thankful for the new lease on life, regardless of how different life may or may not be. Thrill-seeker's paradise.

LOL!
Scenario1: You "die". Nothing happens. You "wake up". Proof that God & Heaven does not exist.
Scenario2: You "die". You meet God in Heaven. Time to wake up --"Hahaha God, I fooled you! See ya later!!!". Proof that God & Heaven exists. :rolleyes:

worse comes to worse with cryonics,your dead just the same,best case scenario you get to live forever.

freeze the brain people,freeze the brain.

Yes, freeze the brain. :) I like the thought of being a 7-11 slurpy in the 31st century.

The problem with cryonics is that it would most likely be super super expensive to get revived, and the $50,000 you paid will be absolutely nothing. Therefore your body is just going to be frozen for say 50-100 years, and then given a proper burial by a bankrupt company.

Still, I'll take my chances. Hopefully, ethics will play a larger role in future society than the almighty dollar.

thats why you have your life insurance invested in slow growth companies[water generation,nano tech,computers,semiconducters] and gold until your revived.or,if money is worthless then,they revive you because its the right thing to do.

its a win win.

or waste your money on a funeral and coffin and burial plot,let me know how that works out in the long run.



besides, a new body would be relitivly cheap to manufacture and produce in 50 years,like a new car or so,demand will lower the price to affordable,all hail the nano tech.

I've been thinking about it, and you know, we'd almost surely have to learn a new language when we are revived. Anyone who reads Shakespeare can tell you that a language can change quite a bit in four to five hundred years' time. And English has been doing a lot of evolving lately – borrowing words, innovating grammar, etc. Either we'll have to learn a new variety of English, or English will have declined in use and been replaced by a new world language, which will have also changed from its modern-day variant.

It's a bit unnerving to know that I'd wake up and have absolutely no one to talk to who understands English, German, or even French as I know them. But I'm also excited about it: Another language to learn. :D

Solution: Memory/Knowledge implants. You could learn the whole body of human knowlege in less time than it takes to cook dinner today. If we can learn to repair cells at the molecular level, we can and will learn what memory and thoughts consist of, at the molecular level. It will then be an easy step to give a revived person all the knowledge he/she needs to survive and prosper.

like I said,ALL HAIL THE NANO TECH!!!!!!!!

Solution: Memory/Knowledge implants. You could learn the whole body of human knowlege in less time than it takes to cook dinner today. If we can learn to repair cells at the molecular level, we can and will learn what memory and thoughts consist of, at the molecular level. It will then be an easy step to give a revived person all the knowledge he/she needs to survive and prosper.
Hey, that makes sense, I guess. Neat idea.

I say everyones being under ambitious and that a cure for death could be found in the next 20-30 years if the world got together. But theres no chance of that happening is there. Death is wrong. Suffering is wrong. I guess since i have no chance of being frozen and the world will never get together like it needs to to defeat death that i'm going to be waiting until they can bring you back somehow without needing the body. But this sorta tech would take alot longer to develop. All the cyronics patients will have been living for ages.

I guess since i have no chance of being frozen You know that most cryonics organizations will accept a life insurance policy as payment, right? If you didn't know this, look into it. It'll cost you something every month until you die, but it is easier for most people than plopping down $50,000 - $150,000 at one go.

All the cyronics patients will have been living for ages.I hope so.

You know that most cryonics organizations will accept a life insurance policy as payment, right? If you didn't know this, look into it. It'll cost you something every month until you die, but it is easier for most people than plopping down $50,000 - $150,000 at one go.

I hope so.
ahhhhhh thepennny's dropped....you've twigged. itis a sCam dude. one that'd bleed your family dry. giveup on this daft dream already...!

ahhhhhh thepennny's dropped....you've twigged. itis a sCam dude. one that'd bleed your family dry. giveup on this daft dream already...!

Of course it's a scam! They are selling hope, and that is the remit of con artists, such as priests and vicars.

You two are entitled to die, if you so choose. Let's see, does penicillin offer hope? Does a heart transplant offer hope? Does genetic cloning offer hope? On and on and on. Scams? I think not.

cyonics is one of the few promises that can actualy deliver.

and in 50 years thing wont be THAT diffrent,look at the 50's to now,things are pretty much the same except a few more advancements in technology.


and yeah,100 years ago organ transplants were just a fanciful pipe dream of science fiction,now we can grow new organs in a jar and implant them[see the bladder thread for details,ive been watching this tech for years as i need a new stomach].

the jetsons had a pill you could swallow and it would look aroubd to see what was wrong,now we have pillcams with robot arms.

these same people who constantly doubt science are generaly the ones who say''just have faith in a higher power'',no self respecting atheist would ever put faith in an invisble man in the sky and shun the hopes of science.


science is the one true god and everyone will eventualy bow down to it[especialy after they cure the disease of religon].

heres another ''scam'' of science fact

http://www.videovat.com/videos/1506/jesse-sullivan-bionic-arm.aspx

That's cool, mars13. A real bionic man. Just imagine where we will be in a few decades.

unthawing people hopefully.

I'm amazed that more people aren't interested in this, or have no comment. What do the rest of you wankers think about cryonics?

I'm amazed that more people aren't interested in this, or have no comment. What do the rest of you wankers think about cryonics?
I don't think apathy is the problem. I think it's just that the forums are slow lately. That, or the subject has been exhausted.

I'm amazed that more people aren't interested in this, or have no comment. What do the rest of you wankers think about cryonics?

I think freezer burns on your ass will be a major problem that first has to be resolved.

I don't think apathy is the problem. I think it's just that the forums are slow lately. That, or the subject has been exhausted.

I wish some of the real scientists here would give a little input. Maybe I shouldn't have put this in the free thoughts section. Even though the subject may have been exhausted, I still can't help thinking that this is more important than most things.


I think freezer burns on your ass will be a major problem that first has to be resolved.We won't need our asses in the future. Hadn't you heard?

We won't need our asses in the future. Hadn't you heard?

Reminds me of this insect I saw on a documentary called The Wonderful World of Dung long ago. I don't know the name, but it spends months and months in its larval state eating and eating and eating but never shitting.....
Then it pupates and emerges in its adult form...
And the first thing it does is shit.
This enormous white turd that is larger than it is when it's done.

Imagine that....
Wonder what it would feel like taking a crap for the first time? Think it is surprised?


Anyway.
I think it would be funny if you wake up in the glorious future only to find that all the freezer people are seen as just another resource in a resource poor environment.
And a yummy resource too. So well-fed we were back in the golden age....
They like live food, by the way, they think of it as a novely as their usual fare is their own recycled shit.....

Enjoy.

You're being a little too pessimistic, invert, just like I've been.

Pessimistic? What?! What the hell is pessimistic about the idea of being unfrozen by futuristic cannibals?
Now. If they were sodomizing cannibals, that would be another story.....

Anyway.
Ok. The fact of the matter is that I would very much like to see what the future brings.
And I would don't much care for the idea of dying seeing as how I have no belief in an afterlife.

But, I will not pay the money that they're asking for a one in a million chance of being ressurected sometime in the future.

They do NOT have the technology to freeze people safely today. Instead, they're banking on the hope that the future will bring some type of technology or medical wonder that will be able to reverse the damage done to your body by the freezing process.
And for that they charge you how much?

You mention the cost of funerals earlier. They can be quite pricey. But, you can get by with a minimal payment. Several thousand minimum, I should think unless you're a derelict and the city burns your body for a mere 100 bucks or so.

The cost of being frozen is not comparable to funeral costs. Except, of course, in the case of the well-to-do who spend more money than they should on their dead bodies.


And. By the way.
I wasn't making a jibe at you earlier.
I thought it was funny that you thought I might have been though.
"Primitive screwhead."
Muaha!


As far as real scientists go, I suspect that most people are aware that the technology is not there yet. THey're not selling you a viable product. They're selling you hope.
Just like the religionists.
Hope for an eternal life.
And cryonics only costs money. You don't have to do anything drastic like accept Jesus Christ as your lord and savior. Or strap explosives on your chest and blow up a restaurant full of jews.

Ok. The fact of the matter is that I would very much like to see what the future brings.
And I would don't much care for the idea of dying seeing as how I have no belief in an afterlife. We agree here on both counts.
But, I will not pay the money that they're asking for a one in a million chance of being ressurected sometime in the future.
This is a value call. Would you rather most of your estate go to the government (even with the new legislation doing away with the estate tax, I'm sure it will be reinstated when the democrats regain power)? Or would you rather spend it on research into ending death for all future generations? That's your call.
They do NOT have the technology to freeze people safely today. Instead, they're banking on the hope that the future will bring some type of technology or medical wonder that will be able to reverse the damage done to your body by the freezing process.You don't know that the current technology is not safe, as it depends entirely on future technology. If you say that the current technology is not safe, you are taking a defeatist attitude and might be ruining your chance at immortality. I know what that sounds like, but I don't care. Small as it is, there is a chance at immortality. Which is more than can be said for previous generations.
And for that they charge you how much?Anywhere from $28,000 to $150,000. Is that really too much for a chance at seeing the future?


The cost of being frozen is not comparable to funeral costs. Except, of course, in the case of the well-to-do who spend more money than they should on their dead bodies.I think it is priced about right. Think about what you may be buying.

And. By the way.
I wasn't making a jibe at you earlier.
I thought it was funny that you thought I might have been though.
"Primitive screwhead."
Muaha!
Damn.

As far as real scientists go, I suspect that most people are aware that the technology is not there yet. THey're not selling you a viable product. They're selling you hope.
Which is more than I ever had with anything that is currently on the market.


And cryonics only costs money. You don't have to do anything drastic like accept Jesus Christ as your lord and savior. Or strap explosives on your chest and blow up a restaurant full of jews.The beauty and simplicity of science.

Well, I'd like to die, wake up once every hundred years for week long intervals until humanity is destroyed, and then go to heaven.

I would hate to have to wake up in the future and have to adapt to an alien environment. Plus, we need to stay out of their way. Like Duendy said, death is part of the cycle. If people don't die, then there is no hope, because all the incoming people are crowded out. No new people unless you kill off old people to make room. Do you know how bad that would be. If you believe in evolution, then think of this way. There is a good reason things die, because, if she wanted to, mother nature could have made us immortal. By mother nature I mean evolution. It is selfish to hog the next generation, and it is stagnant. So yeah, sucks to cyrogenics

If people don't die, then there is no hope, because all the incoming people are crowded out. No new people unless you kill off old people to make room. Do you know how bad that would be. No, do you? Do you think that humanity is stuck on this rock we call earth for eternity? Don't you think it's possible that we will someday learn how to put people in a spaceship and colonize other earths? Hell, if cryonics works, the problem of long-duration interstellar travel is solved already. Can you follow that?

If you believe in evolution, then think of this way. There is a good reason things die, because, if she wanted to, mother nature could have made us immortal.What did mother nature say to you personally on this subject? What were her reasons for her not wanting us to be immortal? I haven't talked to her in a while, so I could use a refresher course. Please, enlighten me.

By mother nature I mean evolution. It is selfish to hog the next generation, and it is stagnant. So yeah, sucks to cyrogenicsSucks to morons.

Well, say I die. If I wake up in the future and we have colonized other planets, there is still a problem. There is this problem that we can only expand at a certain rate, and ultimatly we will have to curb our births because that is exponential and will ultimatly catch up to out rate of expansion. We might solve that problem by enforcing birth control, but our record on earth has made me pessimistic about that. So, with the star travel, its a mabye/mabye not thing. And what if there are alien races, so we can't expand farther without starting an intersteller war? see last post.

And for your question, I'll let you think about it. Why is there death? Go talk to mother nature for me andreport back. SHe is really an intresting gall.

And yeah, sucks to morons. not much we can do about that though :(

actualy the technology to freeze your brain is incredibly advanced,theres almost no celluar damage anymore,your brain is flushed with a solution that doesnt form ice crystals and doesnt destroy the cells.

you can freeze and unfreeze cells now with no decay like the old methods.


and IF you get to live forever then its money well spent,id rather spend the money now then die and never spend it.

i cant think of a better use for money,can you?especialy if its life insurace money youll never see a penny of cause your legaly dead.