http://www.popsci.com/popsci/images/science/sci0802cropcircles_A.jpghttp://www.memorologyllc.com/CropCircleInfo/Report3_2002-0711-1.htm

Crop-circle expert and Signs advisor Colin Andrews sorts circular trick from truth in Popular Science Magazine


When two men claimed responsibility for England's crop circles in 1991, the world let out a collective "case closed." But not Colin Andrews, founder of Circles Phenomenon Research International, who claims hundreds of them are unexplainable. Andrews, who is not a scientist, served as advisor to Signs, in theaters August 2; we caught up with him to get his take on all things (paranormally) circular.

—Ted Johnson


Popular Science: Hasn't it been proven that crop circles are hoaxes?

Colin Andrews Not necessarily. When Doug Bowers and David Chorley demonstrated their method of creating them with a plank, rope, and baseball cap, it dramatically affected the public's perception. But I've found that just over 80 percent appear to be manmade, with indications like soil depressions and trace marks. Twenty percent do not. There's something real here.

PS What?

CA They scream of intelligence. My gut feeling is that something is trying to get us to look at ourselves and how we respect or disrespect our surroundings. I get a sense that there is concern for our environment and our planet.

PS Ever seen one form?

CA No, but I've interviewed about 30 people who have. Their stories vary, but they agree on several features: The plants initially oscillate, then collapse with force and rotate within a vortex until they are lying completely flat on the ground. The process takes less than 10 seconds.

PS Have any formed recently?

CA Yes, 15 new ones arrive every day. Around 10,500 have been reported worldwide since 1975.

PS Ever created one yourself?

CA Oh yes. We've tried all sorts of things to replicate the features of the unexplained 20 percent. But we simply can't.

I've mentioned this multiple times before, perhaps I should give a slightly different method of explaining.

It's known that Surgeons can perform specific "Lazer" operations, where the lazer can make an incision without leaving too much damage in comparison to that of normal surgery.

Such Lazer skills allow the Surgeon to not even break the skin in some instances.

I mention that because the formation of a CROP CIRCLE can be done in much the same way, but utilising Communications equipment alongside a computer control to create Lazer treatment on a "Global scale".

At first the original CROP CIRCLES might leave scorched earth or crops, but with continued attempts electromagnetics was calibrated further. Corn and wheat when young and stillgrowing produces particular chemicals that feed it. These chemicals allow it to have a suppleness so that the crop can bend in the wind.

In this case you can look upon "Electromagnetic Stiffening" (A method previously noted used by MIT for the slowing down of a photon.) The basic idea is that using String theory, it's possible to quantum stiffen the artifical background radiation that surrounds the corn, and allows the bending of space.

These spacial bends cause the quantum entanglement to realign to the spacial folds, that only exist while the combined use of systems generates them.

These sort of "Pranks"/Experiments have been used by "The powers that be" while utilising systems that will always be referd to (or not refered to at all) as classified.

Unfortunately though, it's not a super race of aliens trying to communicate, just a board Radiology Operator/Technician caliberating his system.

He doesn't seem to mention what's inexplicable about the "unexplained 20%".

JamesR:

The fact that people take even .1%, let alone 20%, of crop circles "seriously" is quite inexplicable.

At least to me. ;)

I believe the word is "bollocks".

The case is closed, folks. Has been for a long time. these mysterious features the "true believers" always talk about, they never seem to be able to enumerate them. It is just a case of people being unwilling to give up dearly held illusions. Like christians, or people that think Banshee is a good moderator.

Originally posted by James R
He doesn't seem to mention what's inexplicable about the "unexplained 20%".

For that....you have to wait for the movie....:D

This was thoroughly debunked on by the UK's Channel 4 a few years ago. They got the Circle Makers to do their thing and filmed them in infrared. They then got the 'True Believers' to study the manmade Circle using their highly scienctific technniques, including dowsing. It was declared to be natural, one of the unexplained 20%. The tape was then sent to the believers and they where invited to comment, guess what, no comment.

The unexplained phenomena includes,

<ul>
<li>Wheat stalks bent at 'nodes' without snapping
<li>Elevated magnetic fields
<li>Anonymous magnetic fields, not aligned to true magentic North and only in the Circle.
<li>Dowsing rods go ape.
<li>Probably increased Orgone energy levels. I could be wrong on that one.</ul>

Of course, you could just read http://www.circlemakers.org. The web site of the guys who started this.

For that....you have to wait for the movie

This one you mean. (http://www.signsmovie.co.uk/)

Crop circles are real. SO what causes them?

No probable natural cause has been shown. All theories about natural causes involve other hypothetical phenomenon, so you end up "explaining" one mystery with another.

So they must be created deliberately by rational beings. Which rational beings are available that have the means, motive, and opportunity to create crop circle?

1) Homo Sapiens:

Means: Documented cases exist where humans have made very intricate crop circles. We have lasers, GPS devices, night vision devices etc. etc.

Motive: Humans are known to do anything to get fame, even anonymously. This is no more strange than painting a train.

Opportunity: There are about 6 billion humans on the planet.

2) Aliens:

Means: Sure. In all probability they will have ample means.

Motive: Its hard to guess at the motives of alien minds, but even to a very advanced technology, interplanetary travel is bound to be costly, so its a little hard to imagine that they have come here only to muck about in dark fields.

Opprotunity: The number of aliens on Earth is debatable, but they must be rare.

So, my dear Watson, we must conclude that with a probability of more than 99%, crop circles are made by humans.

:cool: Hans :rolleyes:

A very good summary of the situation. I like.

Welcome to the madhouse.

In reply to Northwinds comments, I say 'Up yours'. You have no proof to say that these 20% aren't real. If they have tried to recreate them, but failed, doesn't that tell you that it can't be man made.

Originally posted by Thor
In reply to Northwinds comments, I say 'Up yours'. You have no proof to say that these 20% aren't real. If they have tried to recreate them, but failed, doesn't that tell you that it can't be man made.

I really wish your comments made sense, so I could reply to them more completely. What do you mean by "real"? Yes, there are really circles of bent grain. So what?

If they have tried to recreate them, but failed, doesn't that tell you that it can't be man made.
But the guy claiming he can't recreate them is also the guy thryig to prove that aliens cause them. Sounds like a slight conflict of interest to me.

Well...whatever it is...another half a billion for Sama..lama..ding..dong...

Hi, thed, thx.:)

You know, even the folks who run around making crop patterns have an interest in maintaining an air of mystery. If somebody actually managed to convince the general populace that ALL crop patterns were manmade, circle makers would be turned into simple vandals overnight, and of course they are not interested in that.

Anyway, how can the fact that one fellow says he cannot copy particular pattern be taken as proof that it wasnt man-made? I can assure you that I couldnt paint the Mona Lisa ---- does that mean it wasnt man-made????

:rolleyes:

On the other hand, while I have never tried, I think I could make most of the crop patterns I have seen pictures of.

Hans

Originally posted by Thor
In reply to Northwinds comments, I say 'Up yours'.

Now, now. Let's keep this a clean fight. No need to invoke Godwin's rule before we even start.

You have no proof to say that these 20% aren't real.

Most importantly there is no proof they are NOT natural or caused by some mundane process. Only a small group of people claim there is evidence for supernatural involvement in the creation of these crop circles. Their evidence is highly suspect. As is said, extraordinary claims reqiure extraordinary evidence. Video footage of a crop circle magically forming or of a definite UFO creating one will suffice. Swinging a lump of lead around and declaring it 'evidence' of a mystical force does not.

As I said above, the worthies of www.circlemakers.org created a circle using mundane means. The circle 'believers' analysed it and declared it to be one of this 20% of real circles. Go Figure.

If they have tried to recreate them, but failed, doesn't that tell you that it can't be man made.

It says some one is not very skilled or has a vested interest. But still you are using the logical fallacy of, if I can't explain this it must be Aliens/Gaia/Supernatural.

What gets me about this is the assumption that some technologically advanced race with a knowledge of Physics way greater than ours, drives light years across the Cosmos to draw pretty pictures in a field. Why? What's the point? If they have some highly important spiritual message why not just land and deliver a speech.

I can see it know, Mankinds first mission to an extra-terrestial planet. The crew spend years in transit, or we have discovered a nifty FTL drive. We arrive to find a burgeoning industrial society on the brink of nuclear power and space exploration. The (now a highly evolved, peaceful humanity) observe the society from orbit and return home. It's decided that contact will be made and provide limited technology transfer. Another rew are despatched with a set of rules for first contact. Top of the list is, first draw meaningless patterns in fields to warn the knowledgeable we are here! Anyone see a problem with that approach.

I'm sorry, I got carried away. What I'm saying is that Northwind hasn't got any evidence to suggest that the 20% aren't made by something...different.

Some crop circles have the 'crop' bent at a certain area which is extremely hard to bend without actually snapping it in half. The crop circles have the crop bent, not snapped.

If these things are in open fields, how can someone maintain a good pattern. You'd need someone overhead to help guide them, these things are near perfect in design.
Scientist claim that the Earths own magnetic field is the cause.
A - Something that big in such a small area
B - How come it didn't affect any other fields nearby?

I've mentioned the use of electromagnetics in the creation and how it can bend corn.

You have to look at Electromagnetics being able to "Stiffen space", this has been known to have been done in an experiment that MIT did to slow down a photon.
(Stiffening spacetime with EM)

Since most people don't understand what EM would actually do to corn, I'm going to attempt to explain.

In all matter, there is microscopic holes and fissures. These exists where atoms entwine and where molecules don't take up the full area.

These holes and fissures, allow for radiation to penetrate deep in and through. The more holes and fissures (The more Porous the matter is) the more radiation can move through with ease.

This is known to happen otherwise radio and television signals around the world wouldn't get to their destinations.

The simple fact is that with EM it's possible to flood these fissures with polarised electromagnetics, which can allow corn to be bent. (Especially since wheatcrops when growing have the nutrients that are a kind of syrup that allows the stems to be supple.)

I thought I would explain how the stem can be bent, using an old trick that involves a cigarette and cling film.
If you try bending a cigarette, you'll probably break it, but if your Wrap the cigarette in cling film, it's possible to tie the cigarette in a knot.

This is not exactly the same, but the clingfilm is keeping pressure on the sides of the cigarette while it's being deformed much like EM radiation would be doing to a stem or area of stems.

This technique as I mentioned before is a bit more advanced than the planks of wood, but it ties in with the fact that people using this system are using a more sophisticated method and create Fractal and Geometric patterns, pretty much due to their qualifications and backgrounding.

Thor: It hasnt been proved that they were not made by aliens, but it can be deduced that they are most likely made by humans. So thats what I'm gonna believe till somebody proves they were made by aliens.

How to maintain a precise pattern? In the same way as we have done for millienna building roads, bridges, tunnels, buildings: By planning and measuring. Are you suggesting that the creatures that could build the Colloseum a 1000 years ago are not able to make an intricate pattern in cereal?

Stryderunknown: I'm an electronic engineer, and I have to say that you dont make sense at all. You are just shuffling a lot of techie expressions.


Hans

I'll again raise the case of the C4 documentary on crop circles. After the two guys made the circle (with boards and rope only, to a highly precise patter) none of the stalks where snapped. It was this, amongst other evidence, that led the believers to think it was a non man made circle. Cereals can be bent without snapping by standing on them.

What if there are other life forms that are involved?
What if the life forms are not humanoid?
What if some space child is doodling using a force pencil?
What if we have a non-corporeal life form that is begining to evolve?

I am surprised that how little imagination our sciforum members lately are displaying. This is not a forum to design system integration for Worldcom. OR CEO Cockpit for the Fortune 1000 companies so that our economy can get moving. (It has a place in another thread - I dont see that either)

This is the place to hangout - comeup with new ideas that may sound outlandish due to our present frame of reference. People still write science-fiction, from Jules Verne to HG wells - dont they?

Shame on you people, getting stuck in the present - and no imagination at all....

Its just that the world is so full of wonders, it seems a shame to waste time on invented wonders. I perfectly love fiction, and it can be as wild as it gets, but I dont like it to be presented as fact. I'm sure I'm boring, heheheh.

Oh, and I hope we meet aliens some day, but when(if) it happens, I hope they will make more sense than flattening crops.

Hans

They'll probably make less sense than a Frenchman on speed

'cause no-one has ever been accused or has been sued for the (already) millions of pounds and dollars of destroyed crop,

not ONE single farmer lying in the gras with his hunting-loaded-shooting-GUN has cauth any perpurtrator(s) in the act,...

No resonable guy would buy the story of dough and dave even after serious reasoning and debating and RESEARCH ,...
They supposedly admidded creating hundreds of circles over night: and in fact: when they where asked to form even a 'simple' pattern like a perfect circle: they failed even that,...

Remains: the strange phenomena who dwell besides the fact of the cirlcles: meaning: it's risen radiation levels, the bended crop (that now has been explained by stryder: but not yet proven out in the open by duplicators)

+ last but not least: all the symbols formed: represent the level of devellopment that the human race has attained throughout history and up until recent devellopments and revelations, yes even new inventions are depicted,....

This without even mentioning my intention of beign worldly famous for making these remarks on sciforums (ahem-ahem= choughing sarcastically) and ofcourse the arousing and invocation of: MASS-PANICKING of the people on these boards,...(and hopefully everyone who they come in contact with?)

Yes ofcourse you can and you may say bollocks! The inquisition also burned Galileo to death for a vision,....

But I would suggest: just keep an open eye like me: don't de-nounce but also not: declare!

Just facts people, just facts,...

Thx
:bugeye:

Now this is a crop circle!

http://www.mmcmetlab.com/sciforums/windmillhill200.jpg

Cool! I've had second thoughts about this. After all, a debate is a game, and why should I be confined to the boring, denouncing role? Of course it gives me the opportunity to flash my dazzling logic at everybody, still - - -

But I dont like the existing exotic theories. A theory should not be contradicted by 80% of the observations, it should be supported by most of the observations and preferably not contradicted by more than a few % (which can then be rejected as inaccurate, heheh).

Sooo: Some think that crop patterns (I call them patterns as not all involve circles) are natural phenomenon, others think they are made by aliens, but I say they are wrong: The crop patterns ARE the aliens! I'm not sure if each pattern is an individual, but time will shurely show.

After all, they show many characteristics of a life-form: They proliferate, they evolve, and they interact with their environment. But they are a parasitic life-form; not like Earth parasites that specialize in preying on a single species, no, these are pan-species parasites.

They prey primarily on plants, from which they draw their nurishment, and they can live from crop alone. Havent you noticed that fields everywhere often show irregular, semingly random patterns of flattened crop? We have been told that this is done by rain and wind, and surely enough they often appear after rain, but so do mushrooms. These patterns come when the alien parasites have only dumb plants to prey on, and they can get nurishment and survival from this.

But they can also prey on intelligence. For this, they lure humans into the fields, and, preying on the human's brains, they can evolve into more advanced things. This takes time, and we have only seen the beginning: The ever more complicated geometric shapes, but soon they will go further, and eventually, they will take over our planet and our minds!

Hans

Here's one too, but I suspect it was made by humans on their own accord:

---- how do you make the picture visible???

MRC_Hans,

Ummm... Evidence to back up those claims up would be interesting indeed.

Evidence? It is consistent with all the observed facts, that should be enough. Thats certainly better than most other theories for the things. -- Except the one about crop patterns being simply an advanced form of graffiti, but I've been told that's a boring theory.

Hans

It is consistent with all the observed facts

What I see as an observable fact and what you see as an observable fact vary greatly in detail. And what exactly are " all the observable facts?"

MRC_Hans,

My explaination was about Radiation and it's ability to penetrate matter. It wasn't meant as explaining electrical charges and the usage of conductivity through freefloating electrons.

If you think it's all technical jargon, you find somewhere thats outputting the prize money for how they are truly formed and I'll make the equipment with that money because I could prove it 100% accurate.

Well, I'm sure you can bend stalks with microwaves because they will heat the stalks and then they can bend. But microwaves will destroy the cells, and the crop will die. In most crop circles made in immature crop, the crop recovers more or less and keeps growing.

Microwaves dont penetrate matter through interatomic voids because even the shortest microwaves are several orders of magnitude larger than atomic structures. How well electromagnetic waves penetrate a given object is almost entirely depentent on the conductivity of the object.

Btw, it doesnt take big funding or clever scientists to make a microwave crop-bender. All you need is to rip apart a microwave oven and connect it to a small motor generator. But I would advice against it; you could easily fry your toes, or worse, heheh.

Mmmm, Pine-net, I wont really try to argue my latest "theory". What I mean is that none of the observations that I have heard of will contradict it. It was just something I dreamed up while driving home yesterday. The idea was not to pull anybody's leg, however, my point is that you can dream up any wild theory and then say "you cant disprove this", but we must look at what is documented and what is probable.

Hans

First of all I can't dismiss the possibility that at least some crop circles are not man made anymore than I can dismiss the possibility that alien life exists in the universe.

Simply put if we are the only intelligent life in the entire known universe, why did (insert deity of choice here) make the playground so unbelievably large? If a small galaxy can contain a few billion stars and the known universe say has billions of galaxies, then even if .0000001 percent of all the stars in the universe could possibly support an earth like planet and of those another fraction actually developed an intelligent life form, there is still an enormous amount of possible life out there. If you believe that we are part of some grand experiment then why put all of us on one somewhat obscure planet in middle of nowhere?

Even if a species eventually develops faster than light technology it would still take an enormous amount of time to explore even just one galaxy let alone visit others.

I have to agree with those who ask 'why the all the secrecy?' I don't know how many of these circles have been made during daylight hours, but from what I've read it seems only to happen late at night. Maybe our visitors are light sensitive? Space faring vampires maybe? Ok, you could argue that perhaps the technology used doesn't work as well when used thru the sunlight.

As for those who feel this all falls under the same conspiracy as UFO's and our governments, how is it that alien visitations are the only secrets they are capable of keeping for any length of time? Mankind needs its 15 minutes of fame? In all this time not one disgruntled employee hasn't spilled the beans? Not one piece of irrefutable piece of evidence has made it into the public eye?

It's not that I don't believe in alien life, I just don't believe we are that interesting for them to visit us, let alone hide themselves so well from view and play these mind games? It would seem to me if haven't figured out what they are trying to say that they would eventually tire of this method and land somewhere, get out and smack some sense into us.

If you have 3 to 4 people, some ropes and a few long sticks, plus a few flat boards - which are the tools used for man made crop circles, how many hours it would take to make one like in the posting by Pine_Net?

Any one 's guess?

Originally posted by kmguru
If you have 3 to 4 people, some ropes and a few long sticks, plus a few flat boards - which are the tools used for man made crop circles, how many hours it would take to make one like in the posting by Pine_Net?

Any one 's guess?

That picture is not a crop circle, it is a doctored picture.

microwaves are several orders of magnitude larger than atomic structures
my my, it seems to me you need to learn (http://www.healthfree.com/paa/paa0001.htm) about microwaves! (http://www.healthfree.com/paa/paa0001.htm)



That picture is not a crop circle, it is a doctored picture.
I bet you never even have seen one with your own eyes,....'cause if you would have seen one, you would know that you never could fake such a 'pattern' even if you had a whole week and all the personell that you wish for,....!!!:mad:

This is the link where I got my info about that crop circle that I posted. It seems it is not a fake, but I have never been there and have not taken direct readings.

Windmill Hill, nr Avebury, Wiltshire (http://www.cropcircleconnector.com/2002/windmillhill/windmillhill2002a.html)

Peace.

Originally posted by kmguru
If you have 3 to 4 people, some ropes and a few long sticks, plus a few flat boards - which are the tools used for man made crop circles, how many hours it would take to make one like in the posting by Pine_Net?

Any one 's guess?
I can do one better. I can *state*. Take the following crop circle:

http://www.skepsis.nl/gulden-tunnel.jpg
The 21 circles were created by 6 persons in two nights. One night was spent marking the circles, the 2nd night for flattening the grain. Flattening the grain took about 6 hours. Mind you, this was the first circle the group made. The group used PVC pipes for the flattening. The farmer was, as he usually is, in on it.

The same group created two more crop circles, one was created at the behest of the VRT (Belgium broadcasting company) for a program called the Dream Factory.

This is the last one the group created:

http://www.skepsis.nl/project-female.jpg

This one was created, again in 2 nights, by 15 persons.

Unfortunately the accompanying articles are in Dutch. I have however translated the last paragraph of the article, read it and you'll know why:

"What I notice mostly, after creating 3 crop circles, is that the creators, whether they've created a cricle before or not, get such an enormous energy boost from that what has been done by teamspirit. Everyone walks around for days with their heads in the clouds. I think it is pure groupart. Perhaps that is what the believers feel when watching the circles."

Read more (in Dutch) on the Dutch skepsis site (http://www.skepsis.nl/cirkelmakers.html)

OK, lets see:

The crop formation I have posted a picture of (you need to click the link, dont aska me why) took 16 hours (I dont know the number of people), and it was made in daylight as it was an advertising thing. It seems deceptively simple, but those letters constist of a LOT of arcs, angles and lines. Note also that two letters are not crossed by tramlines. What does this prove? Only that even VERY complex crop formations can be made by humans. Why are so many done at night? Well, without the air of mystery, how much publicity would they get?

Now, microwaves: That article is a curious mixture of honest tech talk, magic mumbo-jumbo, and conspiracy theory. Lets look at a few facts:

The article states that the frequency of a micro oven is 2.46 GHz, thats a wavelength of about 12cm (nearly 5 inches), hardly anything to interfere with molecules.

The article claims that microwaves work by moving the molecules creating friction, thats nonsense; the radio waves induce electric current in the food, which heats it by electric resistance.

The article talks about microwaves being AC based and sunlight being DC based --- thats basically nonsense, however its true that the energy in a microwave oven is narrow-band, as opposed to the broad-band sun radiation.

The article also states:
Radiation, as defined by physics terminology, is "the electromagnetic waves emitted by the atoms and molecules of a radioactive substance as a result of nuclear decay." Radiation causes ionization, which is what occurs when a neutral atom gains or loses electrons. In simpler terms, a microwave oven decays and changes the molecular structure of the food by the process of radiation. Had the manufacturers accurately called them "radiation ovens", it's doubtful they would have ever sold one, but that's exactly what a microwave oven is.

-- But this is directly wrong. Microwaves are not the same as ionizing radiation. Such radiation is on an entirely different wavelength (shorter) and energy level (higher).

The article cites some very strangely designed experiements to prove how harmful microwave ovens are. That is certainly not the normal way to conduct scientific experiements. I dont know if harmful effects exist or not, but if they could induce measureble changes in people's blood in a matter of days, heavy microwave users would be dying like flies by now --- and so would cell-phone users by the way.:bugeye:

I dont see it as an educational article, but an article by somebody with a crusade.

---- Guess all this is off-topic anyhow, sorry!

Hans

Originally posted by MRC_Hans

The article claims that microwaves work by moving the molecules creating friction, thats nonsense; the radio waves induce electric current in the food, which heats it by electric resistance.



You may be right but...here is what the web encyclopedia says:

A microwave oven uses microwaves to heat food. Microwaves are radio waves. In the case of microwave ovens, the commonly used radio wave frequency is roughly 2,500 megahertz (2.5 gigahertz). Radio waves in this frequency range have an interesting property: they are absorbed by water, fats and sugars. When they are absorbed they are converted directly into atomic motion - heat. Microwaves in this frequency range have another interesting property: they are not absorbed by most plastics, glass or ceramics. Metal reflects microwaves, which is why metal pans do not work well in a microwave oven.

In microwave cooking, the radio waves penetrate the food and excite water and fat molecules pretty much evenly throughout the food. There is no "heat having to migrate toward the interior by conduction". There is heat everywhere all at once because the molecules are all excited together. There are limits of course. Radio waves penetrate unevenly in thick pieces of food (they don't make it all the way to the middle), and there are also "hot spots" caused by wave interference, but you get the idea. The whole heating process is different because you are "exciting atoms" rather than "conducting heat".

Link: http://www.howstuffworks.com/microwave.htm

You might also like to learn that the resonation of particals trhough microwave bombardment create vibrations that are coined "Solitons".

(This just means a form of wavelength that can travel through a solid object, this can be proven by one of those businessman stress toys with 5 silver balls, where the energy is displaced through a swinging motion. The displacement is caused by the transversement of Solitons from one ball to the next.)

As for the mentioning of microwaves, I didn't say Microwaves in my statement, I mentioned Electromagnetic Flux.

Now before anyone jumps on the "Er.. but aren't they..." band wagon, I'm going to try and explain this simply, The use of Long wavelengths isn't what I was discussing, if they are too long then you don't have molecular control.

This is proven with Entropy, where something can fall into chaos over a greater period of time but seem ordered with a shorter period of time.

This means that the smaller length radiowaves are responsible for maniplating "Electromagnetic quantum stiffening", okay that sounds like a bunch of tech speak, but it basically means that wave formations coming in from multiple directions can cause "Matrices" (cross over points) that can create electromagnetic wells, but on scales that can manipulate matter.

Not microwaves.

I shall still be adamant about this being the No.1 plausible reason although I do know that people make crop circles, in fact I know of someone that investigates them and knows the circles makers, and who has even perhaps fallen into a field with a plank of wood.

Although that person is now suffering from M.E. (And I don't mean windows) to which I believe the people using this EM method have been interfering with him, for what ever reason I don't know.

Mmmm actually, the explanation on howstuffworks is not entirely correct, but all this belongs in a scientific forum, wheras this discussion quite properly goes on under Pseudoscience, so I'll rest my case.;)

Hans

http://www.mmcmetlab.com/sciforums/uk01df.jpg

Very cool pictures, thanks.

What practical use would there be for this technology, persides they mind bogling and eyebrow raising of pro and contra believers of Alien existence?

Maby we can de-formate the crop in that way, so that it already fits into our stomach,...so that we just have to swallow and not chew, to spare our teeth?

Stryder: Could you post the plans for the circuitry, so that some-one can built this devise? Is it simple to make? : I would LOVE to play a prank on my landlord: and de-formate her head!!!!! heheheh!!!

Thx!
:bugeye:

Originally posted by MRC_Hans
Mmmm actually, the explanation on howstuffworks is not entirely correct, but all this belongs in a scientific forum, wheras this discussion quite properly goes on under Pseudoscience, so I'll rest my case.

Your case is taking a rest...

In the meantime, why is it that a female can get away wearing male clothes and not vice versa?

Originally posted by kmguru

In the meantime, why is it that a female can get away wearing male clothes and not vice versa?
Because I look damn silly in a dress.

You look just fine in a dress, Adam, although the three inch spike heels are a bit much.

You guys missed the point by 5 miles (or 8 kilometers). Hans was talking about why we are talking about science in pseudoscience....:D

nobody seems to notice my reply here!!! I demand reaction!!! AAAH! Originally posted by Fukushi
What practical use would there be for this technology, persides they mind bogling and eyebrow raising of pro and contra believers of Alien existence?

Maby we can de-formate the crop in that way, so that it already fits into our stomach,...so that we just have to swallow and not chew, to spare our teeth?

Stryder: Could you post the plans for the circuitry, so that some-one can built this devise? Is it simple to make? : I would LOVE to play a prank on my landlord: and de-formate her head!!!!! heheheh!!!

Thx!
:bugeye:

Fukushi:

Your signature with that huge graphic takes up so much space that, it is easy to miss what you have to say....

Oops...I missed it again....:D

that 'huge' graphic is just a persiflage upon some of the board-members,..LOL

one of these days, I'll make a revision,....perhaps,.....maby,....

Fukushi,

Presently I can't do any Schematics as it appears a group is trying to kill me over recent information leaks, Since no governing or regulatory body is willing to accept any responsibility then it looks as if I'll have to prepare to defend myself.

I'm always prepared to help out some friends in need! So count me in! Let's make the first move! (it's a good defence, at least: so they tend to say);)

Stryder, I hope you survive. But schematics published would make it irrelevant to kill you, except maybe in revenge. Still, you'd have left something .........

Hans

I've just posted a really long winded but not fully conclusive post in Free Thoughts.

http://www.sciforums.com/showthread.php?s=&postid=142516#post142516

Simply put it explains the long version of whats been occuring to me.

I might of white lied a little about what I stated, but it is likely that I'm suffernig genetic damage from continued radiation bombardment. It looks like ME or some other ailment, but really it's HOMEOPATHY, it's a faked version creatd through the use of radiation.

That wy MCR_Hans I kept mentioning about radiology so much, as I have a rather large (as you could see by that post mentioned) complaint about it and those that misuse it.

My explaination of corn circles is just the tip of the iceberg, the equipment also ties with "mindcontrol", "telepathy", "UFO's", "Ball Lightening", "Hallucinations", "Ghosts", "telekinesis", "Hypnotism", "Psychics","Cult's", "Assassins" and probably even those bloody terrorists.

This is were you look and pull some big smile as if to say "what a conspiracy theorist", but in truth all those things have a scientific answer and some secrecy covering it up being a Scientific fact.

I would build the equipment but I shouldn't need to, really I should just ask the Rockafella institute if they wouldn't mind looking into it, perhaps even building a test system.

Or if your really lucky you might just find some information available on the internet about the Electromagnetic "Poltergeist" Laboratory, basically a lab filled with high end EM equipment that can levitate objects in it's central room (since the rest of it is filled with computers to process the data that necessary).

The people at this laboratory could prove the corn circles method quite easily.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/2191565.stm

Theres a new crop circle next to the busy M27 motorway near Southampton. It appeared in a field right next to the motorway and it is a big R in a cirle with speedlines. If I find a pic, I'll post it

Considering all the evidence, if anyone doesn't believe that crop pictographs are the work of people whose science is far more advanced than our planetary science then they would have to be something of an idiot, uninformed on the subject, or some kind of government agitator, or perhaps a combination of all three.

The latest remarkable crop pictograph that appeared on Wednesday, 15 August, 2002, is a rendition of a space person holding an information disc that is reminiscent of the Arecibo radiogram reply crop pictograph that appeared in August of last year in the same county of Hampshire. Lucy Pringle has some excellent photographs of them on her website,

http://home.clara.net/lucypringle/

The fact that the crop pictographs have been increasing in number and complexity over the years seems to indicate that they are meant to educate us while acclimatizing us to the reality that there are other intelligent societies besides what has developed on our planet. It must be done in this graduated fashion in order not to spread panic amongst the general population. Many of the pictographs seem to belong in series that denote components of machines such as engines and others that appear to represent electromagnetic or gravity fields.

This clearly is the most remarkable period of recorded history that is known to us and how we react to it will be a signature mark of our civilization. Wise people regard the crop pictographs with wonder and interest and fools dismiss them as hoaxes and try to suppress the knowledge of them. Fortunately for us whoever is applying them to our fields is easily able to outwit the amateurish people who are trying to keep the information from getting widely disseminated.

John, forgive me, but I'm an idiot. Could you please explain to me, in VERY simple terms, why it takes a more advanced thechnology than that of mankind to make geometric patterns in grops?

Why is it that creatures that can design microchips, buils vast bridges, put up sattelites, etc. etc. in your opinion cannot figure out how to make a crop pattern?

Also, while your'e at it, please explain about those very complex patterns that were made by human beings before withnesses? How come they could do that? I'm not talking about Dough's and Dave's old stuff, I'm talking about things like this:

http://www.circlemakers.org/Img/htv_top.jpg

Hans:bugeye:

Looks like a normal crop circle to me...:bugeye:

I think what you mean is (sorry can't remember much about it) a certain south american tribe that has long since disapeared that created cave-artsy looking creatures (I remember seeing a pic of a bird and a deer) in such a manner that it would only be seen if viewed from above. No one knows how or why they made these, but they did somehow. Would find a pic and post it if I could remember the name of the tribe or something.

It IS a normal crop circle. And it was made by humans. In late July 2001 by circlemakers John Lundberg, Rod Dickinson and Wil Russell.

Hans ;)

What is your opinion about them? is it a bunch of dowsing idiots making wheat fields unready, are there aliens out there trying to contact us, or a bit of both? or are all the believers 'far out' and are they just another "natural phenomenon"?

---
I personally believe they are all created by some guys loving to play with the farmer's treasures... might give it a try myself next season...who knows....what's out there

Hi Enqrypzion,

Threads are merged, because there is a lot of discussion done on this subject already...:)

ah k was wondering what happened :p I'll look up further down the board next time

The genuine crop circles can't be duplicated by people on this planet because, as with the cattle mutilations, the science involved is beyond our comprehension. When some skeptics say a piece of equipment was found in the field formation of the Alien Face, therefore the formation was made by a couple of locals, that is a goofy way to arrive at a conclusion. The government has been actively suppressing the dissemination of knowledge of crop circles and it is likely that it was one of their clowns who planted a small device in the field for just the purpose of creating a controversy over the legitimacy of the formation. That is typical of the kind of disinformation placment that the clowns in government are noted for.

Here is an article on the Alien Face formation at Winchester, showing that it is more complicated than anyone could make with sticks, and below it is a link to more pictures of it.

www.swirlednews.com/article.asp?artID=501

http://home.clara.net/lucypringle/

I've mentioned loads of times before, antenna arrays that have computers at each node, parallel processing the frequencies to respond in the correct manner to make the corn flatten with spacial stiffening through EM.

This should be noticed just through the alien picture alone and it's "Dot matrix" effect like the old sorts of printers use to output.

BTW, don't think that a picture of an "alien" means they exist, they are just a figment of your imagination (and can be made so with "holographic Hypnosis" while you sleep.)

The genuine crop circles can't be duplicated by people on this planet because, as with the cattle mutilations, the science involved is beyond our comprehension.

What science beyond our comprehension is needed to make a crop circle?

What, in your opinion, is the motive for the governments of multiple independent countries to suppress information about crop circles?

I agree that the "Alien face" formation is too complicated to make with sticks, but why do you think human makers would be confined to using sticks?

Hans

So, there seem to be two camps about how crop circles are made.

   1. A couple of dudes using planks and string (also a torch if it's a dark night).

   2. Aliens who:
      - have evolved beyond us
      - have travelled light years
      - have undetectable craft
      - have no better way to communicate with us than
         by smashing a picture into farmer Ted’s fields?

:rolleyes:  Please.

Stryderunknown, I don't know why you would keep repeating that dorky theory about stiffening space. Here's an article about some of the science involved in crop circles as tested by world renowned scientists. You guys that don't know anything about crop circles don't seem to realize that the word is out. It's the happening thing, man. Get with it, or be left behind with the non-thinkers.

http://thecropcirclewebsite.50megs.com/page16.htm

John

If you keep taking in the scent of that Sh*t your shoveling, there is no wonder why you can't get it through your skull that even the most demented alien wouldn't waste time drawing pictures for you to look at, don't you think they would be finding the intellectually elite and not bothering with some poor farmers field?

The more likely scenario is this:

The disk in the image is something with Code yes, but it just like the Crossword that was used to find Enigma coders, if you decode the message then people are going to be interested in you. With no fecking aliens.

Btw, my rudeness was just a mixture of the reflection of John's arrogance towards other forum posters and a late night. (Okay I got Tetchy.)

John simply Stiffening of space can occur with the bombardment of Muon's (If my memory serves me correct), If you look at that Crop image you presented in conjunction of that of other you'll notice something different.

Where corncircles can be generated through mathematics and a CAD program that uses "Point" methods of representation (Where the point is infinitely small but still exists) the crop shapes where fully formed, In this version as I mentioned before it's acted like a printer in lines because the Drawing/Illustration doesn't use the CAD point method. (Next time Circle makers try rigging your system for something similar to FLASH with the vector compatibility.)

The disk has been decoded, it was in simple 8 bit ASCII and contained a rather lame message in English. Now, of course, the hunt is on for the hidden messages in the text.

Now some text from the link that John feels we must know about or be left behind:

In the early 1990s, biophysicist William C. Levengood, of the Pinelandia Biophysical Laboratory, in Michigan, examined plants and soils from 250 crop formations, randomly selected from seven countries. Samples and controls were provided by the Massachusetts-based BLT Research Team, directed by Nancy Talbott and Dr. Levengood, who has published over 50 papers in scientific journals, documented numerous changes in the plants from the formations. Most dramatic were grossly elongated plant nodes (the "knuckles" along the stem) and "expulsion cavities" --holes literally blown open at the nodes -- caused by the heating of internal moisture from exposure to intense bursts of radiation. The steam inside the stems escaped by either stretching the nodes or, in less elastic tissue, exploding out like a potato bursting open in

Now this is a bit weird, since even hard-core Crop circle believers contend that about 80% of the crop circles are man-made. So how come he finds this mystrious changes in all of them (since no exceptions are made, we must assume that it is all of them)

And what kind of scientist is this who makes conclusions as part of his investigations?:

caused by the heating of internal moisture from exposure to intense bursts of radiation

The reported findings suggest that some heating occurred, but there is absolutely no basis for concluding that "intense bursts of radiation" caused it, thats pure speculation.

Back to the top-down approach --- see goofyfish's post.

And John: Stryder's theory about stiffening of space is neither more nor less sensible than the theory of aliens visiting Earth in order to stomp grain and stealing cow's asses, and the collective governments of the world covering up.


Hans

I don't believe that 80 % of crop circles are manmade, and no one I know believes that either. That's just another bit of propaganda that people who don't know enough of the facts are susceptible to. There are people who spread disinformation all the time. You have to think about what makes sense and try and filter out the stuff that is too simple minded or the stories which seem too pat to be plausible. I'd be more inclined to say that the ratio is more likely to be vice versa. The debunker crowd likely makes less circles and claim more.

Here are some scientists who are working on crop circles from a professional investigation;

www.bltresearch.com/proffcons.html

Here is one of their reports, including photographic evidence, in a peer reviewed science journal;

www.bltresearch.com/dispersion.html

There are scientists all over the world who take investigating crop circles seriously and they know the evidence rules out plankers or any other form of making crop circles that can be attributed to people using our existing knowledge about science. These scientists conclude that the circles are caused by a plasma vortex, for the simple reason that the scientific journal wouldn't publish it if the conclusion stated the circles were made by an alien intelligence. Both the scientists and the scientific journal know that a plasma vortex is not capable of making geometric and pictographic designs on it's own and that it must be directed by an intelligence. However, if they leave out the part about the plasma vortex being directed by an intelligence, they can publish without fear of retribution and still get the scientific knowledge about crop circles into the public arena.

MRC_Hans

I'm glad you stumbled onto that information because that is kind of what I was trying to explain with my theory. You see I say "Stiffening of Space" But I know that all mass occupies space. So my explanation was to try and explain how the very Super-positioning of atomics and their sub-atomics could be shifted through the use of stiffening.

I mentioned Electromagnetics because I was looking at a region that wouldn't produce too much heat afterall you wouldn't want a corn field to burst into flames.

Another small preposal is on the instances of Holographic projection through Halogen resonance, if you were to find the right frequencies and test corn of it's halogenic content then you might realise what occurs.

As for aliens??? Still I think not. It's something created for a couple of reasons;

One is subversion, keeping the populations attention diverted from anything else that is happening, after while we discuss in a pub or chatroom about the local corncircle your not being inspired by some potential leader of some movement against any particular cause.

Two, There are people out there that do Theology PhD'd, Now they could study religions that already exist, but there are so many problems with trying to work out the information that is missing in certain spaces (due to wars and time destroying the information), so it's understandible that they might invent a new religion to watch how it grows and shapes. (Just look at David Icke)

Three, Lets say you have equipment that can be used for Eave's dropping, subversion through the use of interacting with a persons mind (originally Anti-personnel) and your country exists in a state of peace, the people that would operate such equipment still need training. So they turn that equipment on such things as corn circles to work out how to manipulate sub-atomics without harming anyone and the onto messing with peoples minds (Usually targetting anyone that enters mental institutes or pushes people into them.)

I just read a paper that Jacques Vallee sent to me on this topic. It has a certain resonance that is hard to avoid. His contention is that crop circles are not the result of a couple drunks with a board screwing around in a field, nor do they represent ET. He suggests that it is earth based technology being tested....

excerpt -
"1. The early formations were simple circles, then circles with satellites. In later years more and more sophisticated and precisely-drawn geometric figures appeared.
2. Vegetation is bent because the nodes are exploded. The stalks are not broken and indeed the plants are often reported to start growing again.
3. All the significant formations were observed in an area in close proximity to major research facilities of the British defense establishment, often in controlled airspace.

So much for Aliens and Druids. These studies point to the crop formations as the result of sophisticated electronic warfare experiments conducted by defense contractors. The answer to question (1) provides the first clue: If you are trying to calibrate a beam, drawing a pattern on a wheat field can yield precision information within the diameter of one stalk over hundreds of feet, an ideal test situation. The answer to question (2) narrows down the type of energy that can be responsible, because the amount of heat radiation that needs to be coupled into one node of a stalk of wheat to vaporize the water content is a known quantity, as laboratory tests in France and in the United States soon established. The answer to question (3) points to the likely authors of the tests.

It is tempting to jump to the conclusion that some sort of space-based weapon is being developed. I am reluctant to assume this because of the cost involved. Even if satellites represent the ultimate platform for such a weapon, which does not seem obvious to me, the calibration tests can be carried out far more cheaply from a conventional aircraft. In those cases when witnesses on the ground have seen formations in the process of being created, they have described a reddish glow at ground level, with the vegetation bent over in a matter of minutes. This would be consistent with a beam directed at the field from a hovering dirigible, painting a figure very much in the same way as an electron beam “paints” a digital image on a computer screen. From conversations I have had with the investigators involved, the beam would be unlikely to be a simple infrared beam. Instead a combination of laser and microwave transmitters may be involved, or a form of maser. Perhaps the increasingly sophisticated tests are designed, precisely, to discover optimal combinations.

This leaves several issues pending: Why don’t witnesses see the supposed hovering platforms if they simply fly over the countryside? What about the “confessions” of the two retired men who claimed they made the circles with a two-by-four and a piece of string? And why do the experiments continue at a point where the technology seems to have reached a high level of perfection? I only have tentative answers to this new set of questions:

- Many years ago I gave a lecture on UFO research at Oxford University. One of the people attending, a physics faculty member, told me of an interesting personal experience. His hobby was to fly gliders over the English countryside. On one occasion, on a bright afternoon, he was astonished to see his plane reflected in a surface that appeared to be motionless in the atmosphere. He actually flew around the object and determined it was a perfectly reflecting cylinder. It is obvious that such a device would have “low-observable” characteristics – a visual stealth platform.

- What is suspicious about the two older men’s “confession” is that it appeared simultaneously on the front pages of international papers and on CNN the same day. Any published author familiar with the difficulty of getting media attention will know that it takes a very powerful public relations firm to get a story to the front page of the Wall Street Journal and the New York Times, Le Figaro and many other papers the same day. Where did the two pensioners get the kind of clout that would spin their claim around the planet? The result was instantaneous: The press and, more importantly, most scientists lost all interest in the story for 10 years.


- Why do the tests continue? I admit I have no good answer to this. It seems farfetched to assume that they have become more sociological than technological in nature, yet this could provide an explanation. Soon or later the truth will be known, and it can be used to discredit the community of paranormal researchers who have rushed to decipher alien scripts in the formations, or have hypothesized a return of the Druids, earth lights or messages from Gaia without first testing the basic physics of the situation. It may also be that such hypotheses have been coldly planted among the New Age milieu as part of a psychological warfare experiment, and that the real nature of the crop formations can thus be hidden from serious attention for a very long time.

Why would one need to develop such a beam? Destruction of incoming missiles (or simple confusion of their electronics) would be an obvious purpose, but several projects are already under way to produce such weapons, notably at Boeing and other defense contractors. But we may be wrong in assuming that the beam itself is a weapon; it might be used simply to guide a much larger amount of energy (contained plasma, or the fireball created by a nuclear explosion, for example) to its ultimate destination. The type of threat that is present in today’s world includes targets that one may not want to blow up, but rather to fuse inside a fireball. Such a target might be a biological laboratory, or a chemical factory, where dispersion of a pathogen is undesirable. Is that what the innocent designs in English fields are really telling us to get ready for? If so, their message may be far more ominous that any communication from ETs, friendly or not."

Jacques F. Vallee

I think this has a definate "ring" to it..... how about you?
Ted

That doesn't ring true for me at all, Ted. To start with, the government would never be out testing a new weapon system in some farmer's field. They have millions of acre of their own to test stuff on where no one can see what they are doing.

As I referenced in my previous post, there are scientists studying the crop circle phenomena and they find that the individual stalks are heated from the inside towards the outside. In a square meter of wheat, a common crop for crop circles to appear in, there are several thousand individual stalks. Some of the formations are several hundred meters square, so you can just imagine how many stalks must be heated individually from the inside out. The technology is far more advanced then anything our science is capable of, but that is only a part of the message. The precision with which this technology can be delivered is in itself as amazing as is the technology.

When anyone compares our science to the crop pictograph makers science, they are not observing what our science does in practice. The army has a far less than stellar record when it comes to intercepting big things like missiles, so they sure couldn't hit a few million stalks of wheat on the inside, without scorching any on the outside, no matter what kind of platform they were working from.

I've already assert my opinion, I have great reason purely for a bunch of "grass circles" that "Followed" me around for a bit.
Where ever I went there would be this circle, or two, or three or four. Not a solid one just the outlining.

I believe it has something to do with something else I've explained about but people take the usual opinion "it must be your head!".

It's daft though how a people I mention it too will readily believe that aliens are writing in corn, or that there is actual magic in mysticism, but they can't believe the evolution of science in the field of radiomanipulation.

It's been mentioned before that people say the wavelengths would be impossible, but at the end of the day you must have heard "We control the Horizontal, we control the Vertical" which is matricing at the heart.

I should really try to find some more on how our world exists in holographic layers, where if you were on one layer everything would seem the same (size, mass etc) because then you might see where science is going and has gone with string theory.

Afterall it would be easier to manipulate a whole corn field if the field is multiple layers that multiple systems all take control of one each, parallel processing the super-positioning of the corn.

But don't take my word for it, just watch out for the next corn image.

The explanation offered by Jaques is interesting... I don't buy it either. There are some very puzzling aspects to crop circles. I have no idea where it will lead. Recently Journalist Leslie Kean wrote an article regarding crop circles - I will attach it....

THE PROVIDENCE JOURNAL

Leslie Kean: Origin of crop circles baffles scientists
09/16/2002

SAN FRANCISCO

SINCE THE RECENT release of the movie Signs, crop circles have been thrust into the limelight. Major publications such as Scientific American and U.S. News and World Report have echoed the common belief that all crop circles are made by stealthy humans flattening plants with boards. This assumption would be fair enough if we had no information suggesting otherwise.

However, intriguing data published in peer-reviewed scientific journals clearly establishes that some of these geometric designs, found in dozens of countries, are not made by "pranks with planks." In fact, a study about to be published by a team of scientists and funded by Laurance Rockefeller concludes "it is possible that we are observing the effects of a new or as yet undiscovered energy source."

In the early 1990s, biophysicist William C. Levengood, of the Pinelandia Biophysical Laboratory, in Michigan, examined plants and soils from 250 crop formations, randomly selected from seven countries. Samples and controls were provided by the Massachusetts-based BLT Research Team, directed by Nancy Talbott.

Levengood, who has published over 50 papers in scientific journals, documented numerous changes in the plants from the formations. Most dramatic were grossly elongated plant nodes (the "knuckles" along the stem) and "expulsion cavities" -- holes literally blown open at the nodes -- caused by the heating of internal moisture from exposure to intense bursts of radiation. The steam inside the stems escaped by either stretching the nodes or, in less elastic tissue, exploding out like a potato bursting open in a microwave oven.

Seeds taken from the plants and germinated in the lab showed significant alterations in growth, as compared with controls. Effects varied from an inability to develop seeds to a massive increase in growth rate -- depending on the species, the age of the plants when the circle was created and the intensity of the energy system involved.

These anomalies were also found in tufts of standing plants inside crop circles -- clearly not a result of mechanical flattening -- and in patches of randomly downed crops found near the geometric designs. These facts suggested some kind of natural, but unknown, force at work.

Published in Physiologia Plantarum (1994), the international journal of the European Societies of Plant Physiology, Levengood's data showed that "plants from crop circles display anatomical alterations which cannot be explained by assuming the formations are hoaxes." He defined a "genuine" formation as one "produced by external energy forces independent of human influence."

A strange brown "glaze" covering plants within a British formation was the subject of Levengood and John A. Burke's 1995 paper in the Journal of Scientific Exploration. The material was a pure iron that had been embedded in the plants while the iron was still molten. Tiny iron spheres were also found in the soil.

In 1999, British investigator Ronald Ashby examined the glaze through optical and scanning electron microscopes. He determined that intense heat had been involved -- iron melts at about 2,700 degrees Fahrenheit -- administered in millisecond bursts. "After exhaustive inquiry, there is no mundane explanation for the glaze" he concluded.

In another paper for Physiologia Plantarum (1999), Levengood and Talbott suggested that the energy causing crop circles could be an atmospheric plasma vortex -- multiple interacting electrified air masses that emit microwaves as they spiral around the earth's magnetic-field lines.

Some formations, however, contain cubes and straight lines. Astrophysicist Bernard Haisch, of the California Institute for Physics and Astrophysics, says that such "highly organized, intelligent patterns are not something that could be created by a force of nature."

But Haisch points out that since not all formations are tested, it is unknown how many are genuine. Nor is it likely that such complex designs could evolve so quickly in nature. "Natural phenomena make mountain ranges and form continents -- they don't learn geometry in ten years," says Haisch, who is the science editor for the Astrophysical Journal.

In 1999, philanthropist Laurance Rockefeller made possible the most definitive -- and most revealing -- study to date. The BLT Research Team collected hundreds of plant and soil samples from a seven-circle barley formation in Edmonton, Canada. The plants had both elongated nodes and expulsion cavities, and the soils contained the peculiar iron spheres, indicating a genuine formation. The controls showed none of these changes.

Mineralogist Sampath Iyengar, of the Technology of Materials Laboratory, in California, examined specific heat-sensitive clay minerals in these soils, using X-ray diffraction and a scanning electron microscope. He discovered an increase in the degree of crystallinity (the ordering of atoms) in the circle minerals, which statistician Ravi Raghavan determined was statistically significant at the 95 percent level of confidence.

"I was shocked," says Iyengar, a 30-year specialist in clay mineralogy. "These changes are normally found in sediments buried for thousands and thousands of years under rocks, affected by heat and pressure, and not in surface soils."

Also astounding was the direct correlation between the node-length increases in the plants and the increased crystallization in the soil minerals -- indicating a common energy source for both effects. Yet the scientists could not explain how this would be possible. The temperature required to alter soil crystallinity would be between 1,500 and 1,800 degrees F. This would destroy the plants.

Understanding the possible ramifications of these findings, Talbott sought the expertise of an emeritus professor of geology and mineralogy at Dartmouth College, Robert C. Reynolds Jr., who is former president of the Clay Minerals Society. He is regarded by his colleagues as the "best-known expert in the world" on X-ray diffraction analysis of clay minerals.

Reynolds determined that the BLT Team's data had been "obtained by competent personnel, using current equipment."

The intense heat required for the observed changes in crystallinity "would have incinerated any plant material present," he confirms in a statement for the Rockefeller report. "In short, I believe that our present knowledge provides no explanation."

Meteorologist James W. Deardorff, professor emeritus at the College of Oceanic and Atmospheric Sciences at Oregon State University, and previously a senior scientist at the National Center for Atmospheric Research, states in a 2001 Physiologia Plantarum commentary that the variety, complexity and artistry of crop circles "represent the work of intelligence," and not a plasma vortex. "That is why the hoax hypothesis has been popularly advocated," he says.

However, he points out, the anomalous properties in plant stems thoroughly documented by Levengood and Talbott could not possibly have been implemented by hoaxers. Deardorff describes one 1986 British formation in which upper and lower layers of crop were intricately swirled and bent perpendicular to each other, in a fashion that "defies any explanation."

"People don't want to face up to this, and scientists have to deal with the ridicule factor," he said in a recent interview.

Adding to the puzzle, professional filmmakers have documented bizarre daytime "balls of light" at crop-circle sites. Light phenomena were observed by multiple witnesses at the site of the Canadian circle so meticulously examined under the Rockefeller grant.

Eltjo Hasselhoff, a Dutch experimental physicist, has taken on the study of what he describes as "bright, fluorescent flying light objects,sized somewhere between an egg and a football."

Scientists face real and serious questions in confronting this mystery. Could this be secret laser technology beamed down from satellites? Is it a natural phenomenon? Is there a consciousness or intelligence directing an energy form yet unknown to us?

"To look at the evidence and go away unconvinced is one thing," says astrophysicist Haisch. "To not look at the evidence and be convinced against it . . . is another. That is not science." It's not good journalism, either.

Leslie Kean is an investigative reporter and producer with Pacifica Radio based in the San Francisco Bay Area. She can be reached at lkean@ix.netcom.com

Online at: http://www.projo.com/opinion/contributors/content/projo_20020916_kean.21cb0.html

"Leslie Kean: Origin of crop circles baffles scientists"

Are they truly scientists of reputable backgrounding?

"Seeds taken from the plants and germinated in the lab showed significant alterations in growth, as compared with controls. Effects varied from an inability to develop seeds to a massive increase in growth rate -- depending on the species, the age of the plants when the circle was created and the intensity of the energy system involved."

Clandenstine introduction of GM crops?

"These anomalies were also found in tufts of standing plants inside crop circles -- clearly not a result of mechanical flattening -- and in patches of randomly downed crops found near the geometric designs. These facts suggested some kind of natural, but unknown, force at work."

Simply, Non-locality, it would take a matrix of differing points to make the final destination do what it does.

"A strange brown "glaze" covering plants within a British formation was the subject of Levengood and John A. Burke's 1995 paper in the Journal of Scientific Exploration. The material was a pure iron that had been embedded in the plants while the iron was still molten. Tiny iron spheres were also found in the soil.

In 1999, British investigator Ronald Ashby examined the glaze through optical and scanning electron microscopes. He determined that intense heat had been involved -- iron melts at about 2,700 degrees Fahrenheit -- administered in millisecond bursts. "After exhaustive inquiry, there is no mundane explanation for the glaze" he concluded."

What happens when you put something IRON in a microwave?

"Mineralogist Sampath Iyengar, of the Technology of Materials Laboratory, in California, examined specific heat-sensitive clay minerals in these soils, using X-ray diffraction and a scanning electron microscope. He discovered an increase in the degree of crystallinity (the ordering of atoms) in the circle minerals, which statistician Ravi Raghavan determined was statistically significant at the 95 percent level of confidence."

Of course the atomics is ordered, so would be iron filings with a magnetic.

"Also astounding was the direct correlation between the node-length increases in the plants and the increased crystallization in the soil minerals -- indicating a common energy source for both effects. Yet the scientists could not explain how this would be possible. The temperature required to alter soil crystallinity would be between 1,500 and 1,800 degrees F. This would destroy the plants."

Temperature is created through inconsistancies of holographic layers according to multiworlds/string theory. If the corn is being manipulated at many different levels that by all means it doesn't have to produce such heat to Spacial regions and would only produce it to atoms and molecules from the radioactive decay effect that radiation can cause (and also the creation of isatopes)

"Adding to the puzzle, professional filmmakers have documented bizarre daytime "balls of light" at crop-circle sites. Light phenomena were observed by multiple witnesses at the site of the Canadian circle so meticulously examined under the Rockefeller grant."

Ball lightening could easily be created through the matricing of a volume of free floating atoms/molecules, that could undergo a resonance effect caused by radioactive decay to cause a bright holographic likeness that would look like lightening but would be more like "St Elmo's Fire".

"Scientists face real and serious questions in confronting this mystery. Could this be secret laser technology beamed down from satellites? Is it a natural phenomenon? Is there a consciousness or intelligence directing an energy form yet unknown to us?"

Why do people just point up to Satellites, there's ground array's too. Well established radio antenna's that have to relinquish certain rights to the "Censorship schemes" that governments do enforce on information exchange not to forget their "Hidden channels".

[EDIT]
One thought I came across earlier was about the possibility of testing radio communication through non-locality so if a signal was transmitted it could be received at a different point other than what would be expect from a tracking system.

For instance soldiers walking around with headsets, could possibly be tracked via the headset if the signal was direct, therefore non-locality could be used to make the signal non-distinguishable from background sound.

This would mean that the crystalisation of soil could be used for mirroring the radiology, to aid extra doppler effects.

Another speculation:

Someone is testing a microwave laser from space and drwaing all those crop circles. Could be earthly origin. However if it is a proton beam, then that could be designed for antiballistic missile defense. But if that is the case, why give away the secret?

On the other hand, if the technology is extraterrestial origin, then most governments would get excited everytime one shows up. If they are not - then it is man made period.

I remember trying to explain about beaming through the atmosphere with satellites for another topic. Someone made me realise something abould what would occur if you were to try and bombard a singular plasma stream through the atmosphere, You would create a hole.

Which means over time you would do more and more damage to the ozone. So from an environmental perspective it makes sense to use a ground array. (and from a government perspective, can you imagine if another government caught your satellite pulling that stuff, they could blackmail your country into giving funds or technology otherwise the would expose your country for what it's doing)

I discovered some crAp circles in my back yard last week--very elaborate--I think my dogs may be responsible, but I can't be sure...

Well the grass circles I once had weren't from a dog, although one of them could have been down to a ring of toadstools.

(although you could question if any crystallation of soil might effect fungal growth)

http://in.geocities.com/cropcircles111/18aout/045.jpgm/cropcircles111/18aout/045.jpg

geocities!!@*&^*(&*(%$#

see stryders link below

my vote went for et doing their thing

Actually I think that pictures a fake, I've got the real one here.

Been on holiday. Back to the 80% man-made: That particular figure is the estimate of Colin Andrews, one GB "specialist". The estimate, however, could be 1% or whatever. The fact is that a number of very complex formations are provably manmade. These people document and publish their work, sometimes they get payed to do formations for advertizing. They even have a website: http://www.circlemakers.org/. Another fact is that the so-called experts are not consistently able to distinguish between documentedly manmade formations and those that the same experts deem "genuine".

Why is this so important? Because it proves conclusively that crop patterns CAN be made by humans. This means that all those "technique baffles scientists" statements simply dont hold water. It may baffle some scientists, but it can be done by humans.

Some people keep talking about "pranks with planks", some even talk about drunks; this is in order to make it sound impossible. Today's crop formation makers are serious (maybe crazy, but, serious) people, no doubt using lasers, GPS devices and other modern equipment. They design and plan their art carefully on computers before they set out into the dark fields, possibly they even rehearse the operation.

About those burst nodes: Have you actually walked to a field and bent a few stalks? Thats how stalks react when you bend them. Probably evolution made those staks cabable of surving being flattened ... dont forget that this happens all the time, naturally, during heavy rain and wind.

The plasma vortex: One serious problem with the plasma vortex is that it is a speculative phenomenon invented to explain crop circles. It has never been observed and no traces of it have ever been observed, exept crop circles. So its explaining one unknown with another ... and thats not science.

Top down deduction (Occam's razor if you will) says:

1) Crop patterns can be made by human beings.

2) We have no proof of the existence of aliens and even if they were here we, lack any motive for them to make crop circles.

3) There is no known natural phenomenon that can explain the complex and diverse geometric patterns we see.

Since humans are a known source of crop patterns and the only known source, it is reasonable to conclude that all crop patterns are made by humans. The fact that some scientists think otherwise and publish articles is interesting, but it doesnt make it a truth. But lets see what reviews those articles get.

Hans

Quote:
If they have tried to recreate them, but failed, doesn't that tell you that it can't be man made.

I think that says it all.

If they have tried to recreate them, but failed, doesn't that tell you that it can't be man made.

No. It just tells you that the people trying to recreate them aren't very good at it.

James.. If people have tried to make them and can't, but you say we arent good at it, then how can they be made if we arent good at it. Are you saying people are born being great at making crop circles?

James.. If people have tried to make them and can't, but you say we arent good at it, then how can they be made if we arent good at it. Are you saying people are born being great at making crop circles?
There is this thing called practise. Works wonders.

No. It just tells you that the people trying to recreate them aren't very good at it.
And several other accurate inferences, too.

My views have changed since my last post to some extent, I was all to happy to suggest that radiology would be used to bend corn stems, but I believe it's more to do with genetic manipulation through such equipment, Similar to the aspect of gene therapy. Which I'm sure you'll notice has been an issue with the current increase of genetically modified crops.

"I can assure you that I couldnt paint the Mona Lisa ---- does that mean it wasnt man-made????" da vinci was human???

"You'd need someone overhead to help guide them, these things are near perfect in design."
satelittes
hot air ballons
helicopters
infared camera stuck on a tree or a pole or on wires between two trees on different sides of the field
cherry picker could possibly do it whilst staying on the road
running out of ideas now

everyone is saying "this mustnt have been an alien because a human claimed responsibility or had a tape of themselves doing it
these aliens happen to have mind control rays and either got the people to make the cricles in a 'studio' onboard their ship or just faked the video
dont ask me reasons as to why they would do this. maybe its a coming of age that you must outsmart a civilization to become an adult, humans have done stupider things

The main reason I suggest it's not alien is "Why does it only occur to crops?", So we see these circles on Mars surface, where there is no life?

(In fact Mars would be the best place to leave an "Authentic message" since not many people can put it there.)