I ... um ... er ... right. Anyway, how loud is too loud? A woman who was banned from making loud noises during sex has lost an appeal against her conviction. Caroline and Steve Cartwright's love-making was described as "murder" and "unnatural" at Newcastle Crown Court. Neighbours, the local postman and a woman taking her child to school complained about the noise. Mrs Cartwright, 48, from Washington on Wearside, lost the appeal against a conviction for breaching a noise abatement notice. She argued she had a right to "respect for her private and family life" under Article 8 of the Human Rights Act .... .... Next door neighbour Rachel O'Connor told the court she was frequently late for work because she overslept having been awake most of the night because of the noise. She said: "The noise sounds like they are both in considerable pain. I cannot describe the noise. I have never ever heard anything like it." The court heard Sunderland City Council recorded levels of up 47 decibels. Mrs Cartwright was appealing against the abatement notice, which was imposed in November 2007, and a subsequent Asbo, banning the couple from "shouting, screaming or vocalisation at such a level as to be a statutory nuisance". She has since been accused of three counts of breaching the Asbo, but has denied the charges and will stand trial at Newcastle Crown Court on 14 December. (BBC) Now, forty-seven decibels doesn't seem that loud, but if you're keeping your neighbors awake? I mean, come on ... that's what, 47 dB in the street? I'm torn here, because I'm not convinced scaring the hell out of passers-by with your orgasms is necessarily a human right. Still, though, the idea that a woman is about to stand trial for being too noisy in coitus strikes me just so. I mean, okay, okay. I get it. She sounds like a beached whale ... being carpet bombed. But—I don't know—aren't there more important things going on? To the other, I'm not sure what the neighbors should have done. Maybe called in a possible assault or whatever whenever they heard this unfortunate chorus of lust. I mean, if it sounds like murder, or people in considerable pain, I'm not comfortable telling people to simply ignore it. One of these days it will be a murder, and people won't notice because they just figure it's that poor woman across the street who is utterly, unquestionably incapable of having sex without sharing her experience with the town. Flip a coin. But this is just ... it's futile. Absurd. Insane. Ah, humanity! ____________________ Notes: BBC. "Noisy sex woman loses appeal bid". BBC News Online. November 10, 2009. News.BBC.co.uk. November 10, 2009. http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/england/wear/8352729.stm
"I think your bedroom is right next to our kitchen. We hear you through the wall sometimes. Jaime (embarrassed) - "Oh my god". Neighbor - "That's her!" At about 5:45.
Instead of barring her from making loud noises during sex, why didn't the court simply order her to install some sound proofing sufficient to keep the neighboors happy? Expecting someone to change the way they fuck under court order is pretty damned ridiculous. Might as well throw a man in jail for snoring.
Exactly! You cant tell people not to have sex the way they want to have it, rough or not. The solution to this problem is to distribute ear plugs and make it mandatory for all little boys and girls who pass next to the house to wear those earplugs as well as all the neighbors.
This and that Well, I think that might be a bit simplistic. Consider the article's phrasing, which includes a quote from the abatement order: Mrs Cartwright was appealing against the abatement notice, which was imposed in November 2007, and a subsequent Asbo, banning the couple from "shouting, screaming or vocalisation at such a level as to be a statutory nuisance". (BBC, boldface accent added) "At such a level as to be a statutory nuisance" — I think soundproofing would satisfy the court. Look, I think we've both known people who just don't like the idea that anything they do is in any way wrong. Imagine you're a police officer responding to a mundane noise complaint. Fuckin' cops. Can't tell me what to do with my speakers inside my own house, right? Except it's not what I do inside my own house that is in question; it is, rather, the effects taking place outside my house. It is perfectly possible to face your speakers out the window and not disturb the neighbors. Nor do you have to restrict yourself to Rachmaninoff and Joanne Brackeen. Maybe it's your garage band. In either case, soundproofing would work: the question is whether or not you disturb other people. So I have it in my mind that when originally confronted with the statutory question of how much noise they were making, the Cartwrights might have become indignant. After all, Mrs. Cartwright has thrice been cited for violating the abatement order. And it's easy enough to see: How dare they! People are distressed enough at having to keep their stereo or car quiet enough to not wake the neighborhood. They get upset when the police respond to a DV that originated with a simple noise complaint. And, well, your point is not dismissed lightly: "Expecting someone to change the way they fuck under court order is pretty damned ridiculous." But for that, I intend to turn to our man Draqon .... • • • Sir, I've gone over this a few times in my head, and I'm having a hard time not making it sound condescending. Thus disclaimed: Peter: Yeah, Brian, you're doing the same thing that Mia Farrow did to that Oriental guy that Woody Allen brought home from the circus. Lois: Peter, hold onto that thought because I'm going to explain to you when we get home all the things that are wrong with that statement. But first .... (Family Guy, "Barely Legal") Please Register or Log in to view the hidden image! Hold onto that thought .... Peter (l.), with Brian and Meg at the Barrington Hotel So how to say this gently? Um, okay, look: When it comes that you are more integrated with the marketplace, and have greater experience comparing your investment to the returns it brings, you will find that there are some serious problems with your statement. There is no question that these people can have sex however they want to have it, rough or not. The actual question is whether they need to disturb a measurable portion of the town every time they do. Right there is the first problem. Secondly, and getting back to Madanthonywayne's phrasing of the issue, the court apparently had serious doubts about Mrs. Cartwright's story. The idea that one simply cannot help being loud is nearly bogus. At best, it implies some manner of psychological dysfunction. Because the truth is that you'll find that with some lovers it just doesn't take much to get them loud. You could be having a slow, leisurely, low-effort union and bring a woman to plaster-cracking shouts. Similarly, you might pound a lover like a pro wrestler and she won't make a peep. Some months ago, I was cleaning out my car and heard the sounds of coitus coming from a neighbor's apartment. He, of course, was quiet; I couldn't even hear his punctuating grunts. But I could easily time their rhythm by listening to the sounds she was making. This was a very natural sound; I know because I've made it before. While being fucked. When I'm the one doing the penetrating, I'm pretty quiet; when I'm the one being drilled? It's a little harder to be mouse-silent. But even so, I'd have to make some sort of deliberate effort in order to wake the neighbors. You can actually see it in porn. The grunts and squeals and screams are overdubbed, and what you see is always different than what you hear. Go out and watch some amateur porn. You know, home videos and the like. You'll find that the louder the participants, by and large the more artificial the expression. And that's the thing. More people I know get their idea of what sex is supposed to look and sound like from pornography than from their own experiences. So even when a woman is giving a proper hummer in a video, it always sounds really weird compared to reality. I have no doubt that Mrs. Cartwright enjoys such expressions of her satisfaction, but I am very dubious about the claim that she cannot help herself. But, just like anything else, it is a question of how people like to fuck. Let's say you find a woman who wants you to dress up in a nurse's dress and then rape her senseless. There is nothing wrong with that. But if your neighbors across the street hear her shouting and screaming, and furniture breaking, and you yelling about how she likes it when you force it up her ass like that—maybe you're having the best sex of your life, but you have no right to be upset if the cops come knocking on your door because someone has called in a potential assault. And this, sir, is at the heart of the question: I would normally write off such absurdity as a joke, but it fits your history, so I'll give it some serious consideration. To reiterate an earlier point: ... I'm not sure what the neighbors should have done. Maybe called in a possible assault or whatever whenever they heard this unfortunate chorus of lust. I mean, if it sounds like murder, or people in considerable pain, I'm not comfortable telling people to simply ignore it. One of these days it will be a murder, and people won't notice because they just figure it's that poor woman across the street who is utterly, unquestionably incapable of having sex without sharing her experience with the town. When I was a kid, I grew up on a lakefront. And it was common to hear children shouting in alarm, or screaming, "Help!" when nothing dangerous was afoot. Over time, you become accustomed to it. This can be problematic. I don't react very quickly to such noises in my environment. Indeed, I've found myself in the odd position before of being the only person in a group who isn't looking for the source of the problem. And explaining that apparent nonchalance? Actually, it isn't that I don't care, but that sort of shouting isn't strange to me. Or car alarms. They're nuisances these days, and it's hard to see what use they actually serve. In truth, nobody I know pays attention to the damn things. Someone could jack a car out of the lot right below my window and if I noticed, my first thought was, "Oh, good. They finally turned off that fucking alarm." My brother's car has been smashed and grabbed twice in the last month in Seattle. It certainly has an alarm; I know because I've set it off before. But nobody gave a damn. The things go off all the time in this area, sometimes simply because a bird flew through the motion-sensor range, or a heavy truck rattled by on the highway. So what should the Cartwrights' neighbors do? They can't literally call the police every time there is a coital noise disturbance: "We're responding to a reported possible assault." —What? I was just fucking my wife! "Ah. I see. Beg pardon, sir." —Yeah, and tell those nosy neighbors to keep out of our business! "Are you suggesting that when your neighbors hear what sounds like an assault they shouldn't call the police?" —No, I'm saying those fucking busybodies should mind their own damn business! Imagine it's you being beaten senseless by a roaming gang of chavs, or getting a stick crammed up your ass by a bunch of drunk morons who think you're gay. And imagine the neighbors do nothing. They hear your pain, they hear you screaming, but just put in their earplugs and mutter, "Eh, dude's just having some fun. Nothing for us to worry about." At least, in bleeding to death in the bushes outside your home, you'll have the comfort of knowing nobody stuck their damn nose into your business. ____________________ Notes: BBC. "Noisy sex woman loses appeal bid". BBC News Online. November 10, 2009. News.BBC.co.uk. November 10, 2009. http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/england/wear/8352729.stm
