Something that havent been discussed it "mediums" and psychics.

What do you feel about them? Are there any truth to it? or is is just BS..

-------------------------

Enlighten me !

hi,

well I guess I should ask do you belive..you probably have mixed feelings on the subject..so do I. Though I am a Psyic, and a empath ( I can feel what others feel, and understand what they are thinking or talking about immediatly if I am close by) so I guess my answer would be a definate yes..but at the same time what some people say they can do still makes me wonder if I am crazy. Hope this is help. Yours Zygos

Hi

Well. I have been experimenting with some "branches" of it called psychotronic energy, and other related things.
i do feel that some of them out there are full of it, but once in a while there seems to be someone of "knowledge".

I dont have your abilities though :)

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Just waiting for my peabrain to boot into English :\

H-kon,

Sorry but your just full of it, everybody has the able to use these powers (I have used them all my life) all you have to do is have a willingness..Tell me about your powers, for I have found the path of fate often leads me into good people.

Yours Zygos

I really don't know if there is such a thing as ESP, Mindreading etc. but I do know that I do readings all which are fake, I learned the techneics though books and things. Even though almost every person who I have, being forwarned that I have no paranormal abilities, thinks I have been bang on with their readings, some even say to me afterward that I am really a psycic and just don't want to admit it..

Oh well It can be faked I have proved that.




------------------
(Midnight@golden.net)
(Ouch.my.head)
(http://home.golden.net/~midnight/)

hi,

do you mean when you fake a reading that you say what ever pops up in your head. That you often choose your words..

Yours zygos

=Quote
do you mean when you fake a reading that ou say what ever pops up in your head. That you often choose your words..
=End Quote

No,
I work from basic human traits and slowly narrow down the field, its not a hard trick, anyone can do it. Once you break the surface it gets very easy..


------------------
(Midnight@golden.net)
(Ouch.my.head)
(http://home.golden.net/~midnight/)

hi,
Oh I was just wondering because what a Psyic connection is. It does intrigue me that you would do negatives on people instead of just using your own powers.

Zygos

Yes, most people out there claiming to be psychic are probably using this method of narrowing down possibilities. But. Throughout my entire life, or at least as far back as i can remember, i have had ideas and feelings about my surroundings jump into my head unasked for by me. This is not to say that i possess special powers, because if these are in fact real impulses that originate from OUTSIDE of my head it seems that everyone would be capable of this. If this is not a mild form of clairvoyance, mind reading, esp or what have you, then it must be a sort of hysteria or a subjective interpretation of the known 5 senses , maybe wishful thinking :)( though this was happening before i ever knew of such things).

Zygos

Im interested to hear what your experiences are, you sound like you're familiar with Neil Slade?

This is getting to be a very interesting conversation. For me.. Well. its the same with me as with the last post before me mentioned.. But you can be trained to learn this stuff. that i know. I happen to touch the surface of this, as with millions of other people on this planet.

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"All i say is keep looking".

I'd caution people against detecting 'clairvoyance' within themselves. A notorious psychological phenomenon is most likely at work here -- correlation. Thing is, everybody gets various thoughts, feelings and dreams that do not make sense, all the time. However, such events are unimportant and are quickly forgotten. However, if soon after a stray thought an event occurs that correlates to that thought, this 'prediction' is firmly retained in memory. So as time passes, you retain memory of the very few coincidences, and you forget the much more plentiful 'psychic' failures.

Similar effects play a role in the so-called psychic sessions. The 'psychic' may be wrong on quite a few counts, but whenever they hit close to the truth, the 'amazing' aspect of that overshadows the multiple failures, and is the effect that is retained in memory. Coupled to an expectation of the psychic's success, this can eventually lead to a rather irrational belief in the psychic's fidelity. Similar things can be said about the 'prophets' out there (yes, *including* Nostradamus).

Thing is, in experimental settings, where every prediction (right and wrong) is equally recorded, psychics do awful. In fact, they do no better than any other person. On binary predictions (e.g., is the ball behind my back blue or red?) the performance of psychics is 50% -- purely random guessing.

This is not to discount the few purported cases where extremely specific and accurate visions/predictions have occured. However, I do advise extreme caution in these matters, as it is very easy to go astray and into la-la land. And the paucity of strong evidence, coupled with irreproducibility of such evidence, leaves me rather unconvinced.

------------------
I am; therefore I think.

Whoops!
Since i am a Norwegian, I am not sure if i put the right topic here. I wanted to see if there were someone else "experimenting" with this. i am not a psy person, I'll explain what i do :

There is a term that i call "Psychotronic Energy" It is not like clairvoiance, which i cant do. I have had those "incoming" stuff in my head, but I am not alone there. I guess everyones got them. Be it Psy abillities, or instinct. So I am not hoping to be a "Nostradamus" There are very few of those people, and i am actually glad that i dont have them.. enough of that. Here is what i do :

The human body consists of roughly 50 trillion cells. All those cells have some form of current in them. Otherwise , you would not be able to move your arm.

What i do, is that i meditate, not like Yoga or something, just relaxing on the bed, or on a couchwith my eyes closed. With them closed, I look out, but still inward .. If you do that. you somehow manage to focus, makes your brain work. What happens is that so many thoughts are passing through your mind. Once i had like a pre-view of WWII with pictures that i could not remember that i have seen. And when i am lucky, after maybe 20 minutes or so. .it says boom!!, and my whole body has this energy that i cant describe.. If you try to force yourself out of it, you'll get extremely tired, and your day will basically be screwed up ( did it the first time i "managed" it). Well. While this "energy" that i feel maintaines for more than 5 sec, you get the most wonderful experience. You are almost "guided" in a labyrinth, with no clue of where you are going. You start feeling a very fast pulse feeling in the "dent" in the middle of your forehead, and somekind of preasure on both the left and the right side of your head.
After maybe 5-10 more minutes ( got my eyes closed) I start to go back to a more "sleepy" feeling, and i open my eyes..

Well. This didnt sound much i know. but what happens when i do all these things?

I am totally calm, my voice lowers a notch, every muscle is relaxing. You feel alert, calmer. In a way. I feel "free". My concentration really improves.

One strange thing that i have noticed since i started doing this, is that I almost always know who is calling, before i pick up the phone ( No i dont have called ID ;)) That could be nothing, or it could be something. I dont know. I dont claim having any "powers" in any way..

One thing i have to say though is that i remember much more of what people have said, remember much more of what i did last week than i did before.
What this means to me, and the point of it is that the human brain can be trained. DOnt we use only 10-15% of our brain only? So i figured that its gotta be a way to use some of the rest too. I dont know if this is how you do it, but it sure helps me.

What do you other guys do. Do you have a "ritual" like i have, or?

Guess this dont sound too sane huh?



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"All i say is keep looking".

Zygos:

Would be nice to read what you are doing, and what it is doing.

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"All i say is keep looking".

hi,

Well First off Humans are now ranging more around 17-23% brain compasity(were trying for 28), and that is because of these "psy" abilities. For you see our brains are quite poweriful, but we don't use all of our brain. And for some people (such as boris) who haven't used this new part of the brain Can't (or won't belive) the Psy could exist because it make no sense to them. but it is real "in a lot" of cases(even though everybody has the power). Now as for that energy you speak of, that is what I do...I am as many before me practice "Magik" (the K is used to show it is not illusional)..though many would disagree that it exists, that's what I do in a nutshell. If you wish a furthur explanation one would have to belive in certain things though(such a psy not being dilusional, or illusional).

Yours zygos

Life is like no other in the universe

Guys, I don't want to get bogged down in debate on this topic, but I just can't let you get away with this % brain utilization crap.

We use 100% of our brain, all the time. Just as you use 100% of your heart muscle to pump blood. It is what you use the brain for that makes a difference.

In fact, the vast majority of our brain is not even devoted to higher cognition. Over a quarter of our brain does nothing except process the sheer influx of information from the two retinas. Primate visual system is among the most advanced on earth, and it shows in terms of brain utilization. Huge chunks of our brains are also devoted to processing other sensory input, like sound and touch. And very significant portions of the brain are devoted to generating and coordinating behaviors, manipulating memory, maintaining an internal model of the surrounding scenery, and recognizing various objects, as well as integrating sensory input across modalities, computationally transforming and filtering binaural and stereoscopic input from eyes and ears into an integrated 3D representation, and so on. In fact at any moment, no matter what you are doing, most of your brain keeps plugging away in the background without you being consciously aware of the enormous computation that is taking place. On average, even if you are a professional athlete, 40% of all calories your body burns are burned in the brain.

The 10% utilization is a nearly century-old <u>myth</u>. It came from the observation that lobotomies, which removed a large chunk of the orbitofrontal cortex, didn't seem to affect the patients all that much. So, some doctor concluded to a journalist that large portions of the brain (perhaps as large as 90%) are not really in use. This immediately got into the press, and was trumpeted all over the world. The myth has persisted ever since. The truth is, the frontal lobotomies did indeed severely affect people, but in ways a little more subtle than the doctors were looking for.

Today, we know that no region of the brain goes unused. All you can do is simply intensify activity in certain regions over the normal level. However, such control extends only over limited, mutually exclusive subsets of brain regions. Because the brain is highly interconnected and interdependent, overutilization of large portions of the brain leads directly to seizure! So, attempting to overexcite large portions of the brain might not be a good idea at all. Additionally, raising activity in regions of the brain is quite expensive metabolically, and quite exhausting in the long run (not to mention that overuse of any organ leads to deterioration thereof; all things are good in moderation.)

Finally, let me brush on the issue of the brain's control over the body. The brain contains or controls most of the endocrine system, which includes the parasympatetic nervous system and endorphins. This allows an individual, through extended training, to learn to control such things as the heart rate or the perceived levels of pain. The 'high' you feel through your meditations could simply be due to a certain degree of conscious control you have managed to gain over the release of endorphins into your blood stream. These are the hormones that are released during injury to minimize pain, or during sexual orgasm to give pleasure. Your description of heightened awareness followed by a relaxed state is in fact reminiscent of what happens during a sexual orgasm -- only in your case the experience seems to be less intense and more prolonged.

But anyway, I suspect you are not looking to be debunked but to be sympathized with, judging from your post. So, I'll leave the issue here and let you have your fun...

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I am; therefore I think.

Every comment is welcome here.. but i have to ask you if you can prove what you are saying. Every other doctor and scientis says that we only use a small portion of out brain, so how can you verify that we are using all 100% of it?

Other than that. I must say that you seem not to accept other peoples opinions and experiences

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"All i say is keep looking".

I think its the whole science has progressed and the myths haven't.

But thats just me.. and Im kinda funny in the head..




------------------
(Midnight@golden.net)
(Ouch.my.head)
(http://home.golden.net/~midnight/)

hi,

Boris I am corrected, it is not that we are not using the entire brain, but we don't have the use of all the neural pathways possible, I know you cannot disagree with this because the sheer # of them are endless. And what I mean in my percentages in what percent of the total we are using. In other words humans are evolving to allow for the use of more neural pathways.

Yours zygos

Midnight:
I agree. But since the old brain hasn't evolved either, we still find the old myths evocative. I think that science fiction attempts to fill the gap you mention. I am not sure that it succeeds, since it looks forward, unlike myths. I'm a big fan of Joseph Campbell btw.

zygos:
I suspect you are summising, rather than making a statement based on experimental measurment. Although the number of axons and dendrites is huge, it's not "endless"; experimental measurement has shown that it's between 10^11 and 10^13. The role of the glial cells may add even more effective compute complexity also.

I would hazard the conjecture that, if the human brain is to be made "more capable" while at the same time preserving its overall shape and size, that the representations carried around the brain would become semantically richer.

Here's a straw man I just thought of:
I don't think, for instance, that "overclocking" the brain (like hackers do with their new Pentiums) with higher frequencies would work -- a whimsical and nonsensical idea, since the tissue itself is designed to respond at certain frequencies.

Doing what i do, is not like overclocking the brain ( i do it on computers). To do an analogy using computers i would say this:

Windows is defined as slow, but you can you anything you want with it. Now lets say i cleaned the hard drive, and installed BeOS. The same computer would be just as fast as it was, but BeOS makes it go even faster with better coding (crash less) faster applications..more juice out of your system that is.The same goes for Linux for that matter.

You see. Its not like doing this as having special powers.( My computer still cant do stuff by itself using BeOs which i do) You just use what you have in a different way so that you can get more juice squeezed out of your system, without having to upgrade.
Was that clear enough?

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"All i say is keep looking".

Zygos.

I would still like to hear of your experiences :)


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"All i say is keep looking".

H-kon,

Sure, you're talking about the efficiency of an operating system in analogy to the efficiency of the brain. However, it's not clear that the brain has such a thing as an operating system. It looks to be a (somewhat) hierarchical, self-organised web of computational elements. There is certainly no "program", since it is not a von Neumann machine.

So what do you think of the conjecture in my previous post?

Aww, all right. If you guys insist, we'll digress from the forum's topic a bit.

1) All brain pathways are utilized. In fact, a biochemical mechanism exists which prunes away pathways which are not utilized, or come in conflict with the pathways in use. For your information, a newborn has something like twice the number of neurons, and many more connections, than an adult. However, all those connections are jumbled and conflict with each other -- that's why early in life humans don't show much cognitive capability despite their brain size. Gradually, through pruning and rearranging neurons and connections, the brain cleans up its architecture and optimizes itself to the specific environment within which it operates. In this light, every last connection in your brain is in use; if it wasn't it would have severed itself.

2) Although the brain isn't a von Neumann machine in a classical sense, it can be viewed as a Turing machine. The commonality that brain shares with computers is not architectural; it lies in the fact that in the brain, the program and data are represented in the same way within the same hardware, just like they are in the computers' memories. The brain is a bit more than just a classical computer, however, because in the brain it's not just the program or data changing, but the hardware itself is constantly changing, and is itself a representation of both the program and the data.

3) My statement concerning brain utilization comes from reviewing many lesion studies which show that damage to practically any area of the brain results in impairment of some set of cognitive capacities. The statement is also supported by funcional brain imaging, which measures brain activity changes as subjects perform tasks. Thanks to functional imaging, post-mortem chemical pathway tracing, lesion studies,and even single-cell recording, we have now mapped a variety of functions and behavior modules to the cortex, to the extent that we now know that not even a square millimeter of the cortex goes unused.

4) The basic cognitive capacities of humans seem to have remained unchanged for the last few millennia. What makes the average modern human more intelligent than an average Bronze Age human is the amount of education. Because the brain exhibits a great deal of plasticity early in life, the volume and richness of information and experiences to which the brain is exposed in the early years has a hefty impact on that brain's cognitive capacities further down the line. Given that, it is reasonable to assume that a modern human retains more of the infantile brain pathways due to the greater deluge of more varied experiences early in life. Thus, we can be said to be utilizing our cognitive architectures more efficiently now than humans did a few millennia ago. However, we are indeed fully using all aspects of our current cognitive capacity at one time or another.

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I am; therefore I think.

hi,

Ok first off there is not a limitless amount of connections, but there are lots of them none the less. Now I will pretend today that I agree with you boris, and instead of challenging you, I will ask you (Isn't that better?). Now Boris the psyic abilities have been measured, and pretty much been shown to exist in some people (encluding Einestein),and to be pretty accurate (87%) explain how in your mind this is possible.

"asking the ego is a dangerous thing"
Yours zygos


[This message has been edited by zygos (edited July 18, 1999).]

How exactally was it measured? Is it like the "testing for Jedi" in starwars. Or more of a you walk around with a divinging rod helmet on for a week and monitor the results.



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(Midnight@golden.net)
(Ouch.my.head)
(http://home.golden.net/~midnight/)

LOL ;)

Aloysius:

There is no way of overclocking your brain i agree with that.. but it is like using your brain in a more efficient way so that you can do more, remember more.. somekind of tweaking it if you understand me. Not having special powers, but just waking up the sleeping tissue we all are wearing.


As for Boris:

I am sorry to say this Boris, but either are you living in a box, or I am too open minded. You take science far too seriously. Not long ago. Lobotomi was a good thing to do, it just takes a while before someone says *whoops* and stops doing that. I myself believe in science, but i have a moderated releationship to it. If I was to believe that science was allways right. I would have learned that 2 years ago, Coffee was good for me, 1 year ago, coffee was not healthy, and now it is healthy again.. Science doesnt have a "true face" but then again, i guess thats why it is science huh?

I suggest that we REALLY use around 5-10% of our mind total. If we were to use 100% of it, we would not be able to store what we learn other than in the short term memory, if you dont suggest that our brain expands that is?

I have to congratulate you Boris being the first guy i know that use 100% of the mind. Then you will admit that you know everything. that you speak all the languages of the world, that you really know everything about everything. that whenever i have a question about something, you would know the answer to it.

Today there are computers being made that is about the size of a grain of salt. The information that can be stored onto it are unimaginable, and are 100 million times faster than the computer that you and i are typing on. Our mind can store a bit more than that wouldnt you think? Or are you suggesting that a brain is inferior to that technology?

The fact is that no one knows how much information our mind can store. We know somewhat where the different things are stored in our mind, but we have no idea WHATSOEVER what the capabillities of our mind is, how it works, and why it works as it does.. If we did, then hey.. Why hast Artificial intelligence advanced that much? Why arent there biological machines out there?
We know nothing about a brain at all!!!

A tad off topic, but i had to say this.

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"All i say is keep looking".

[This message has been edited by H-kon (edited July 19, 1999).]

Zygos:

I would be very interested in seeing the actual scientific paper(s) from which you are quoting your figures. To my knowledge, no such unequivocal demonstrations had ever occurred.

H-kon:

I'm afraid that neuroscience is a bit farther advanced than the science of nutrition. :)

Using 100% of the brain does not mean being the smartest person ever, or knowing everything. Just as you use 100% of your energy intake from food, you use 100% of your white/gray matter. However, you can use the food energy for growing fat, or you can use it for growing muscle. Similarly, you can use the brain for constructing the next GUT, or you can just waste it in idle cycles watching TV.

Brain capacity is not infinite, and is not even all that large, contrary to popular misconceptions. The fundamental storage unit in the brain is the synaptic junction. Here's a back-of-the-envelope estimate of their numbers: ~100,000,000,000 neurons x ~30,000 synapses/neuron / 2 (since a synapse are shared between two neurons) = ~1,500,000,000,000,000 -- or on the order of 1 quadrillion synapses -- per adult human brain. In computer terms, this roughly corresponds to 1 petabyte within a factor of 10 or so. While at brain's tiny scales and high energy efficiencies such storage is beyond current technology, massive archives are even now being constructed that are capable of carrying over a petabyte of information. However, the brain's storage mechanism is not binary, nor digital. Rather it's analog and is further capable of being nonlinearly modulated in a variety of modes. Storage is accomplished not like a binary recording on tape or disk, but like a holographic recording on a film -- every synapse contributes to storage of multiple data items to various degrees. Hence, the overall information capacity of the brain is quite a bit more than a petabyte, but should not be much more than something on the order of exobytes (10^24 bits.)

You are quite right; this is something far beyond any present computer technology. However, one should note that not all of that information-carrying capacity is used for knowledge; the vast majority of it is gobbled up by behaviors, emotions, skills, locations, objects, qualities, etc. Also, large amounts of this information are not really data, but programs -- synaptic connections that form networks for everything from analysis of sensory signals to smooth interpolation of movement, to inducing sleep/wake cycles, to governing hunger and satiety. So I would expect that the final useful (for abstract knowledge) information-carrying capacity of the brain is well under an exobyte, and quite possibly on the order of merely petabytes or even less.

Theoretical maximums are one thing, though -- the reality is typically a bit less enthralling. As I mentioned before, the brain is highly interconnected. As such, it is bound by necessity to spend a lot of its resources simply buffering different processing areas from mutual interference. Also, due to physiological limitations memory can't just be stored anywhere; typically it is stored right next to the particular modalities that are involved in that memory's generation. Thus, memories of sounds reside in the auditory corteci, visual memories are located in the supplementary visual corteci, more abstract memories are located near associative and speech processing centers. Then there are metabolic limitations tied to the fact that learning is tiresome. Therefore, you are forced to expend greater amounts of time and energy whenever you need to absorb large quantities of information. Couple this with the constant degradation of memory due to overwriting with new memories and pure noise, and you face a fundamental limit on the amount of knowledge that can be retained by any human individual, no matter how gifted. Granted, some of us have better memories than others due to the fact that no two brains are alike -- but there exists a limit beyond which no human will ever reach, save through genetic or cybernetic enhancement.

All of which amounts to the fact that it is physically impossible for any human being to ever know everything that is known to the human civilization in general, because the present knowledge of our civilization must have already exceeded the exobyte.

Concerning discussions of the brain's 'speed', one must remember that 'megahertz' is not everything. Architecture ultimately matters a whole lot more than mere clock frequency. While the fastest CPUs of today are reaching into the gigahertz range, the human brain operates at a measly 50 hertz! Nevertheless, even an insect brain leaves today's supercomputers in the dust. How could that be?

Well, for one we have the tremendous storage and retrieval capacity built right into the CPU. But far more importantly, brains are massively parallel machines. Even an insect's brain contains on the order of hundreds of thousands of neurons, with the total number of connections numbering in billions. All of those connections and all of the neurons are computing simultaneously, not one at a time, and therein lies the trick. A thousand little ants will build an anthill much faster than a single large, fast, and powerful ant. A million straws will hold the weight that snaps a steel cable. Not even the most powerful computer of today could simulate such a 'simple' thing as an insect brain in real time. That's not only because the processing and storage requirements are mind-boggling, but the behavior of neurons and neurotransmitters is computationally expensive to model, putting the overall computational demands beyond even the systems that are currently capable of simulating nuclear blasts.

When we talk about improved utilization of our neural architecture, we don't mean increasing the frequency of operation (it's a physiological limit dictated by our body temperatures, our brain sizes and the related thickness of our axons, and diffusion rates of ions across our cellular membranes, among other things). We mean a more efficient neural network formed through extensive training. Just as you can build up your muscles with exercise, you can build up the sophistication of your brain. However, just as it becomes more difficult to pump iron with old age, the brain also quickly looses the bulk of its flexibility -- only it does so much faster, and is quite rigid by the time puberty is over. That is why it is so vital to intensively educate and stimulate children -- because the quality of their early education will strongly impact their performance for the rest of their lives. Now, I hope by now it's becoming clearer what I mean by 100% brain utilization. We utilize 100% of what we have -- which is quite different from what we could theoretically or potentially have, if our genetics and early education were optimized to the limit -- and definitely quite different from what is not theoretically possible even for a human brain.

<hr>

I hope this discussion somewhat clears up the reasons why artificial intelligence has not advanced all that much. The simple truth is that our present technology is simply not yet adequate to successfully compete with the natural design. Give it another century, and you'll see artificial animals (perhaps even artificial humans) roaming the solar system.

I hope it is also quite clear that we understand a great deal more about the brain than we do about coffee :) The pity of it is, that neuroscience is still viewed as too advanced, and its basics are not included in the regular general education curricula. Thus there's a lot of ignorance out there with respect to the current knowledge about the brain. But I hope you keep asking -- so I could keep answering, and hopefully we could all learn something. (Anybody want to start up a separate thread on mind/brain?)

Oh, H-kon:

For your information, I am on my way to becoming a neuroscientist. So I think it's rather necessary for me to believe at least in the basic tenets of my future profession, wouldn't you agree? :) I would be the last to proclaim that science is always right. However, you have to distinguish between two basic branches of science: theoretical and applied. Whereas applied science concerns itself with conducting experiments and testing theories, theoretical science merely builds theory. While the individual experiments can give incorrect or inconclusive results (as in the case of your coffee), when many hundreds or even thousands of different experiments are staged to test a certain phenomenon, a reliable picture inevitably emerges. Typically, only once that happens, theorists go to work and try to explain the observed pattern.

Thus, theories are never wrong -- at least not with respect to the fundamental patterns that they were designed to explain. However, theories can be incomplete -- and end up predicting behavior that is not observed, or failing to explain newly-observed behavior. The general statements I made about the brain are basic knowledge among the medical and biological establishments for at least half a century; they are not result of theory, but rather of redundant experiment. And since theories are expected to converge toward the true answer, I'd say that so far the 'psychic' phenomena are not being viewed in a favourable light -- they do not correllate with any experiment or theory up to now; they do not even have basic cause-and-effect hypotheses behind them. That is why I am so interested in examining Zygos' sources for claims that psychic phenomena have been established with 83% certainty. If any such demonstration had indeed occurred and is reproducible, then the current theories would have to change. Until that point, however, the mystical phenomena are being consigned to the same pile of drek as the alchemists' claim of turning lead into gold.

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I am; therefore I think.

[This message has been edited by Boris (edited July 19, 1999).]

Boris

that was quite the long read , but Sounds as if you don't think humans will expand their brain size . Wouldn't more info introduced earlier in life expand size ? And would't the larger brain be repeated with each generation? If not how did we arrive at our current brain size

keep the information coming appreciate the lessons!

H-kon and Boris:

You both seem to have taken my piece of spontaneous whimsy about overclocking the brain, and made it into a discussion point. It wasn't intended to be a serious proposal!

Particularly, my "conjecture" was to increase the richness of semantic content in the information flow across the synapse.

In terms of information theory, this would be equivalent to increasing the number of bits per message, all else being constant. In communciations theory terms, this analogises to increased bandwidth. The Broadband Brain. You heard it here first :)

I've been a member of the Neural Network Society since its inception in the 80s (I'm member number 400-something of ...what?...50,000 now?) so I go back a ways on this. I have never, however, worked professionally in the field, being a lowly electronics engineer (aka lapsed physicist).
I get the journal every month, but, Silicon Valley being what it is, currently I'm 6 months behind in my rwading of them!

I have at times been very excited by these neural network engineering attempts to "model cognition". I like the simplicity of Carver Mead's approach ("let the device physics do the talking"). He's just come out with a super new neural camera called the Foveon; check it out!

I also like the fact that it took Stephen Grossberg many years to educate people about his Adaptive Resonance Theory (ART); one can find genuine complexity in the simplest architectures. As Boris points out, architecture is everything (including, I hazard, boosting the bandwidth, as I conjecture above). With the right architecture, a simple little neural circuit is capable of Principal Component Analysis! (extraction of eigenvectors). I find this fascinating.

Boris:

Quite a long post, but you have quite many errors which i am going to address shortly.



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"All i say is keep looking".

hi,

Well first off Boris, the 83% is an average of many attempts, but unfortunitly I cannot say the exact source (it was on TLC I think) and as for my other information, I get it directly, through a channel.. And of course most people are skeptics of channelers (including at times myself), but often what I get is what is being got by someone else around the globe. And I guess like any belief it can't really be proven through documentation, but I personly I know its true though experience (I.E. when someone talks about what another channeler in saying, and I got in a month earlier). And I guess my only other proof is that as a rule I don't read what other "psys" are saying.

"I'm a skeptic too!"
Yours zygos

Lots of Input here.
I'm a skeptic of UFOscience and I have
quite a bit of information to back myself
up.
I used to be a believer, but not anymore.
Well, I sure straightened MYself up
two years ago.

As for psychic activity - It can all
be explained scientifically, not
by some goobedy gobly crap that you
find in religion or tabloid magazines.

I'm not writing much now cause I have
other things to do now.

-Dan

God:

As I said, brain architecture can be optimized through better nurturing early in life. Alternatively, one could tinker with genetics, or in quite a few decades, perhaps design cybernetic enhancements.

The main problem with actually increasing <u>brain size</u> is that the human head is already hazardously large and presents grave threat during birth. We have evolved flexible skull plates that enable a baby's head to actually deform as it passes through the birth canal, but even such deformation has its limits. To evolve yet larger brains, we'd have to tinker with our genome, and either make the women's birth canals wider, or enable human embryos to continue embryological development past birth -- similar to, for example, Kangaroo embryos. Either way, we are talking about significant change here, and I don't believe it will happen any time soon.

Aloysius:

Synapses are merely points of contact between cells; the actual information is transmitted along axons in the form of voltage potential waves. I'm sure you are aware of that; my point is that to increase 'bandwidth', we would have to increase the information-carrying capacity of the axon. I don't see how this could be easily done, other than speeding up ion pumps and making the axon wider to, respectively, enable closer spacing of spikes, and to increase signal propagation speed to something above 20 m/s. Both of these modifications are bad ideas, because increasing axon diameter will dramatically increase brain size and also signal travel distance, and making the ion pumps faster would likely make them more energy-hungry, which could lead to a need for vastly expanded and enriched circulation system, which would again balloon the brain and put additional extreme demands on the rest of the body. If you have any other ideas, I'd be fascinated to hear them!

H-kon:

I'm waiting for your expose.

Zygos:

That's what I thought.

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I am; therefore I think.

Boris:

Like you, I don't think physical changes are very practical, and the repercussions on the entire human body have to be paid for...somehow.

Therefore, when I say "semantically richer" signalling, I mean that the *meaning* per spike (an abstract measure, but at least discussable) increases.

Are you familiar with Lempel-Ziv data compression? (all the "zip" programs use a variant of it). The basic idea is that a dictionary exists either at the encoder, or within the message itself, or at the decoder, or some combination thereof. Possessing such a "shortcut dictionary" allows the sender to send references to larger blocks than single letters. Abstractly, one would send a line instead of the five characters "s-t-i-c-k".

There are numerous ways to compress data: vector quantisation, wavelets, fractals, Fourier-based approaches (like JPEG, H.263 and MPEG), etc. In the communications domain, we have also many different ways to squeeze higher bandwidth down narrow pipes (like telephone wires - QAM, WDM, etc.).

All of these approaches produce the equivalent of a richer semantic for the message, because it has been condensed in some way or other. It's in this spirit that I meant a more "efficient" brain.

Boris:

I am going to do this short.. I have a master headache today, but i will give you a full reply, either on this forum, or by E-mail..
----------------------------
I am very surprised Boris since you are becoming a neuroscientist that you dont even know that if we had used 100% of our food intake, we would not have intestants to process the food.. Why do you think you are going to the bathroom? Simple flaw Boris...
I really hope that you do not believe that?


Second.. How do you get the data that you are suggesting? You are mixing neuroscience with quantmechanics. Neuroscience is as you may know a very new study. You pull random numbers from the sky, and try to create something to touch afterwards. Your abstract theories and hypothesis are not valid simply because that no scientist on this planet can look me straight in the eye and say that they know how the brain works. Unless you are the first that is?

You cannont prove anything! You say. " It should not be.. I would expect ..again.. your opinions and theories

I hope that you can provide me/us with some facts, and i will do the same thing.
This has been a short reply due to my migraine, but i had to answer just a little so that you would not think that i would retreat on this subject.

So get of your high horse Boris, and provide me/us with some factual studies and numbers, and i will do the same.

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"All i say is keep looking".

Aloysius:

Actually, the brain already compresses data on many levels. For example, the retinas filter out much of the visual information; most of the information that V1 gets from the retinas is related to edges. Neurons in V1 are known to have Gabor wavelet-like receptive fields, and it has even been shown that artificial neural networks automatically learn Gabor representations when they are forced to optimally encode such things as location of the object within an image, for example. The auditory cortex gets input from the cochlea in the form of roughly a Fourier decomposition of the sound signal. It has been demonstrated that artificial neural nets do something very similar to PCA when forced to encode images within a narrow set of neurons. You can think of the eigenvector/eigenvalue representations that are formed as a sort of Hoffmann compression on vector sets. Our senses are indeed highly evolved and thus quite efficient; there's little reason to suspect that our brains are any less optimized. Actually, if such a thing as backpropagation learning is even approximated in the brain, it will automatically tend toward the most compact encoding schemes possible, especially if resources are limited. Now granted, if the resources are overabundant, at least artificial neural nets tend to get lazy and settle on the first satisfactory encoding that works. However, I suspect that with the brain's crowded schedule and rigid physiological data I/O specs, there is not much flexibility when it comes to freedom of representation formats. But supposing that the brain is not able to optimize its encoding in 100% of the cases -- how do you propose we help it do that?

H-kon:

When I mentioned food, I was talking about utilization of the energy we get from digesting food, not about all energy present in food (most of which we cannot extract)! But the intestinal tract would be there in any case, since it is used precisely to extract energy. What were you talking about?

The numbers I cited are not random at all. The number of neurons in adult human brain has indeed been measured to be around 100 billion. Axonal arborization of various neuron types ranges from 100,000 to 5,000 connections, making around 30,000 on average across all neuron types (weighted average by abundance of each neuron type in the brain). Granted, my final numbers concerning total information-carrying capacity are guesses -- but they are educated guesses based on real data, and I believe are within at most factor of 100 of the truth. I went through the simple derivation for you; if you disagree with any step in my reasoning, let's discuss it -- you might even set me straight if I missed something!

We don't yet know how the brain works as a whole. However, we have pretty good ideas about how certain sections of the brain work, for example primary and secondary visual corteci, auditory nuclei, certain thalamic pathways, hippocampus, colliculi and many others. We certainly have an extremely good idea when it comes to the brain's anatomy and its cellular structures and mechanisms.

My condolences on the migraine...

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I am; therefore I think.

Boris

Correct me if I'm wrong , but I read that humans have the largest brain . If thats true it would be true that size = intelligence. it would also reason that nature has gotten the most that it can out of brain architecture.it does not take a great number of cells to increase the memory capacity ( I think ) so we are not talking of great increases of size within successive generations.
I know infant birth weights are on the rise , is there any studies showing the same for head/brain size?

It's <u>relative</u> brain size. What that means is, you weigh the brain, and you weigh the body without the brain; then you divide the brain weight by body weight -- and get the percentage of body weight devoted to the brain. Humans have the largest brain-to-body ratio, but <u>not</u> the largest brain (I believe the whales have the largest brains).

Birth weights are on the rise obviously because of better nutrition and less exertion for mothers. The same reasons why the human race on average is constantly growin taller. But as far as I know, the brain-to-body weight proportion has not changed in humans (I have not seen any results showing that).

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I am; therefore I think.

Good post as usual Boris. Just some random responses:

1. I recall the Gabor paper from Linsker, and the PCA papers from Sanger and Foldiak, and the cochlea stuff from Mead.
2. I'd say backprop was physiologically unlikely, since it uses a global representation of state (memory), whereas the brain appears to process much more in a nearest-neighbour kind of style.
3. I think you mean Huffman, not Hoffmann.

So, you ask how one proposes to improve the encoding? Well - I don't know! :)
Chances are, it's already in some sort of local efficiency maximum, and the nearest better one lies aways away. To get there from here probably requires some major architectural lurches...this way lies major mutation!

Perhaps in vitro gestation may lead the way to genetic freedom on brain size. There is then no birth canal to restrict cranial volume.

Aloysius:

Yeah, I mean Huffman. (What did Dustin have to do with it? Man....) You can tell, I'm terrible with names.

Interesting idea about artificial gestation. But why stop there? Might as well engineer entirely new artificial brains to begin with. Or what the heck, while we are at it, create entirely new artificial life from ground up using deliberately optimized technologies and mass-produced replaceable parts... Who knows, perhaps that indeed is the future -- the next epoch of evolution, a switch over from natural selection to artificial creation. The ultimate irony, heh?

There's an interesting philosophical sidenote to all this... If you are willing to resort to artificial gestation combined with genetic alteration, or even outright construction of artificial life, you forever doom humanity (or whatever it transforms into) toward a technological subsistence. The ultimate dilemma is this: do we want to increasingly depend on our external knowledge and resources, or is a more self-contained approach preferable?

(I have this unexplainable feeling we are weering off further and further away from this forum's topic. :))

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I am; therefore I think.

Boris -

Well, I must admit it's a stretch to assign the last few posts to the "Credibility of Psychics" :) :). Let's just say we're examining the microstructure of the problem :/

Interesting point about tech reliance on artificial humans. I guess the trick is to produce organisms which remain capable of successful breeding despite the absence of the mechanisms which created them. Even though Daddy has a bionic leg-strengthener, and Junior doesn't, Junior can still procreate, despite his leg envy...

If increased intelligence requires increased birth canals, I opt that we all stay dumb ( and snug! tee ! hee! )

My light hearted 2c. worth......

Three cheers for Dave!

That's about the most downright sensible post I've read :)

Why does everyone always want more cycles per second?

Take our computer example for a second. Suppose you have a 16 bit computer running at a gigahertz. now compare that to a 64-bit computer running at 250 MHz. Now how about a 100 million bit computer running at 50 Hz. Now suppose that bit is actually a word or image or phrase. Ie you have a 100 million unit computer running at 50hz. And each unit holds 1 MB of information. And this computer can analyzes and form analogies. So once it see's a dog, anything that looks like a dog, get the "class" of dog, and so on. So instead of the brain storing all new information, it classifies this information, maybe even in different "storage areas"

Now suppose you stop thinking in simple word concepts and start thinking in paragraph or image concepts. Or in concepts so large that the entire image at one time could not be held into your "main memory" at once.

People don't need bigger brains, they just need to figure out how to use them.

Spook:

You're suggesting the same idea as I am, but in a differerent way. I was calling for a "richer representational semantic" in the brain.

I noticed that most everyone like to think that "everyone" has some psi ability, and it's just that some know how to use it, and others don't.

MOST people are accessible: they broadcast like a screaming banshees to real telepaths and empaths. MOST people have as much mental self-control as a child in what they think about (note: they don't have to ACT to think about it...).

However, most are completely unable to use psi abilities at all. This is only partially due to a lack of training or natural skill, and mostly due to genetics: the few really good ones come from strong matriarchal psi lines. For those with some of the potential, genetic drift prevents them from harnessing their abilities, as it is very weak and easily ignored/misunderstood.

Most people would then say you've got two groups, the psi and the norms. I prefer "norm" to "mundane." Doesn't sound patronizing or insulting. They're just "normal." Can't find fault in that.

But wait! There's one more: Negapaths. Negapaths is the name given to those who have NO ability, don't broadcast, and just aren't there... People have called them different names: mind-blinds, soulless, black holes. It's hard to describe it well, but there are people who have the trait of being able to block all psi phenomenon in their immediate area. When they walk though a crowd, you can feel them, not through direct observation, but from what there isn't. They move like a hole through the crowd, a place where you can't detect anything... gives me the chills when I think about it...

I've met two people like this: none knew their "condition." One I met as part of my job, and we spoke over lunch... Very unnerving to be around a person like that for a while... The other was just moving in a crowd at the mall... didn't see him or her, but know they were there.

So, there are three groups:

Norms - John and Betty Q. Public, with 2.3 kids and 1.7 pets. They live a nice normal life, and never even think seriously about psi. They don't believe in in, but they'd love to get their hands on it. After all, predicting the stock market and reading the boss's mind would get them great advantages... as long as no one else had them.

Psi - Those with latent or open psi ability, including telepaths, empaths, telekineticists, prescients, and others. Ranging in ability from crisis-indiced psi to full consious control, and everything in between. Tired of the usual stupid norm questions like, "if you're for real, why don't you win the lotto or buy stocks and get rich?" Most psis understand that while important, money is not the end-all, be-all of existance. Also, why attract attention to yourself? Better the "psychics" attract the attention, and let the media and population think of it as a amusement or joke.

Negapaths - Mind-blind, and most don't know it. The one I met was very depressed, and coudl not understand why his life was in the pits. He was never married, women were not attracted to him (average looking, but not bad), he advanced slowly at his job, and had few friends. I've heard of others who live fairly normal lives.

Which group are you in? Well... almost everyone is a norm, with very few psis and even fewer negapaths. I don't know if there is a "balance" to it (there probably should be), but there shouldn't be too many psis without a cooresonding number of negapaths...

Anyone else encounter them? A hairdresser friend once had one come it for a haircut: she started to vomit, and asked another to do it instead... She only got better after he left.

Oh, well... better them than me...

Could you're friend really be called mind-blind? It sounds like a self esteem problem or lack of social skills more than anything psychic.
Once you're down in the dumps, it's hard to get up there again...you say his job advancement sucks, never married, no women, very few friends ...what sort of personality would you radiate if this was your life we were talking about? Why don't you help him take a step up and return some of his confidence, or perhaps suggest professional help to lift his esteem?
Life is what you make of it - mostly - but a guy who may lacks the skills to make it to the top fast or score well with chicks or be the centre of attention is more a reflection of character than anything else. If he feels his station in life is not much higher than where he is, why would you promote him?? He doesn't display leadership qualities so he stays where he is till he does! If he isn't a smooth-talker, how can he sell himself to a strange woman? It doesn't matter too much if you're a stud looking dude, without the personality to back it up, you won't have good grounds for a relationship to develop.
Take him out and introduce him to some of your freinds, only show interest in his stories when there positive, ignore him when he moans. Teach him to give positive output when he interacts. This alone could change things for him for the better.
I base my suggestions on tried methods that I have used with the very sort of persona you have described with outstanding results. Why not help him instead of whinging about him on this board?? :)

First of all, he is not my friend: he is a business associate I met over several occasions. I would not want to introduce him to my friends: he is VERY unsettling to be around... when you know what they are...

This isn't discrimination or shunning, but a matter of self protection: would you hang out with a person that make your physically ill by their mere presence? I don't hate him: I have no feelings toward him whatsoever. I have my own problems to deal with that i cannot change, and he has his own. I cannot imagine what his life is like, or even his thoughts...

I think I could tell the difference between the depressed and a negapath. I've been depressed to the point of suicide for a while before now, and got quite close on several occasions. I've also met and spoken with a lot of depressed people: depression is not a cause of negapaths, it is part of what they are. They are depressed because of what they are, not vice versa.

Truly depressed people are "norms." To an empath, that's bluntly obvious. Depressed people are far more introverted mentally that normal people, but not not anything like a negapath.

I am not going to help him in any way. i CANT'T help him: there is nothing to help him with! He knows and understands that he will not be successful. He knows and understands he will be alone for the rest of his life. He is resigned to it, just like the rest of us are resigned to our lot in life. I sure didn't ask for what I have. No one I know of did either, but we accept it and live out our lives.

Let's say I can help him: I find another negapath who likes him, and the two get married after a long, awkward courtship, and have kids. More negapaths! If he found a woman who loved him and accepted him, he would still be what he is. If he won the lottery, it would not change what he is. No actions that he or anyone else around him could take would change what he is.

You said that "Life is what you make of it - mostly..." He cannot change that one aspect of his life anymore than you or I can grow a new kidney for the hell of it. That one aspect dominates his life: he is stuck with it, and the only way out is suicide. Suprisingly, he hasn't even considered that. In his place, I would have definitely thought about it, if not actually did it.

He actually tries to be positive: he is willing to help when people need help, he likes kids (kids don't like him), and wants to be more open... but no matter what he tries, he gets the same results. He is discouraged, but not toally obsessed with depression.

I am not "whining" about his condition: I haven't said "Gee, why doesn't the guy just get away from me? Can't he get a life on his own?" And, his persona is not the same as what he is: there are a lot of depressed people, but only a few of them are negapaths.

My purpose was to find out if others have met or observed negapaths, not to complain about this one. If i was complaining, that would imply I care at least a little, whether it be him or about his annoying me. In fact, I do cnot are at all...

<center>What a crock of sh*t! </center>


Do some more serious research into psychic phenomena and related personas before you recommence spurting unequivical crap as per the above post.


[This message has been edited by Dave (edited September 08, 1999).]

>Do some more serious research into psychic phenomena and related personas before you recommence spurting unequivical crap as per the above post.
-----
If there is indeed such a thing as "serious research into psychic phenomena". :) You are right about one thing. It seems like a lot of BS.


Question: Have any of you people tried for the one million dollar reward being offered for demonstration of such ablilites as many of you claim to have?

Didn't think so. Perhaps the... how did it go again..Negapaths are employed so no one can collect the reward. :)


Blacktubby,

"Psychologist B.R. Forer found that people tend to accept vague and general personality descriptions as uniquely applicable to themselves without realizing that the same description could be applied to just about anyone. Consider the following as if it were given to you as an evaluation of your personality."


(P.S. Just so you all know, I used to be a "hard core believer". I believed in the loch ness monster (amongst the dozens of elusive mythical monsters), creationism, alien visitations, psi etc.)

Thanks for sharing, Blacktubby... So, what's the rest of your story?

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Have a great day!

The rest of my story? Basically it started with my increasing interest in evolution. I wondered how the scientific community could possibly accept such a foolish theory as evolution. What about the missing link? What about the sheer biochemical improbability of life’s sophistication coming about by chance? What about all the things that darwin's theory can not explain?

At the time I did not yet comprehend the fact that evolution is a theory. It is not supposed to be perfectly refined. That it occurs is, of course, factual. The central fallacy of my beliefs was that I assumed because the theory is still evolving it is without foundation. (strange, but a common conception amongst the creationist crowd..)

When I reached this conclusion, I inevitably began applying the same sort of inquiry into creationism. I realized I had to be honest with myself. Where evolution was a still developing but very comprehensive theory, creationism had nothing to show but assumption after assumption. It searched for evidence that a God created the earth, where evolution simply examined the evidence and asked "why?"

Of course I don't think I could have really looked at the knowledge that I had at that point and continued to seriously believe the tales of ufo's abductions, monsters etc which saturate our media and surround our daily life.

Probably the reason for my intitial reluctance to accept the truth is the spiritual sense of wonder I gained from contemplating the possibility of other life, the protection of a benevolent god etc. I get the same "spiritual" sense of joy now by enjoying art, nature, liturature, or having a good debate.


(Naturally most people will percieve the immaturity in the flow of thought in most of my posts, The unconscious repetitions which I do not always catch etc. Intellectually I am not yet fully developed. (being that I am still only a youth) It however it takes only a little honesty to see the self deception in the paranormal mindset.)


Blacktubby

[This message has been edited by Blacktubby (edited September 14, 1999).]

Greetings from The Ancient One. My name is Micheal. I am a psychic/metaphysical practitioner in Canada. As a professional psychic i can safely say this business is like any other. You have your good guys and your bad guys. Be careful when choosing a psychic comparison shop,talk to people who have used this particular reader...Remember we are all psychic,be wary of psychics who tell you otherwise.

>Greetings from The Ancient One. My name is Micheal. I am a psychic/metaphysical practitioner in Canada. As a professional psychic i can safely say this business is like any other. You have your good guys and your bad guys. Be careful when choosing a psychic comparison shop,talk to people who have used this particular reader...Remember we are all psychic,be wary of psychics who tell you otherwise.
---------------------

And then there are the psychics who will tell you to be wary of those who tell you everyone is psychic. ;)

You are, however, right in one respect. We are *all* capable of self deception.

BLACKTUBBY

Interesting response and you are correct.
That is why i tell people to be sure.If it
doesnt feel right dont do it.I have turned down more readings than i've ever done and i've done a hundred times more readings for free than i have ever charged for.I also advise people on what to look for to know you're being scammed.

One of the reasons i drift in and out of the business is the dishonesty,the other is the prejudice.I have been told i was going to hell,called the devil and had my life threatened so one more person questioning my
integrity is of no concern.

Years ago i financially secure.Then i lost everything in a failed business venture. I even lived on the streets for a few months.I would go days without eating or sleeping.I stilldid most of my readings for free.My friends thought i was nuts.I do this because i love it.

I have been wrong before and i'll be wrong again.But i have NEVER been dishonest.Its
what i pride myself on.

FOREVER IN PEACE
MICHEAL

Well, I don't have any more psychic ability than most (or at least, I don't think I do). But I did know a guy named Joe Weems in high school who could read minds. No, it wasn't a parlor trick, he wasn't faking it - none of those things all the skeptics like to propose.

I had heard it from other people who knew him, but was skeptical myself. So one day I decided to test it for myself. I sat next to him in English class, and decided I would send him a mental message. The entire message was, "Belinda likes you" (okay - it was kind of a juvenile message, but I was just a kid!). I concentrated on that message for a couple of minutes (we were supposed to be reading our books at the time), and finally he looked over at me and said, "What are you doing?" I played innocent and asked him what he meant. He said, "You're trying to tell me something" I asked him what he thought I was trying to tell him. He said, "Something about Belinda - that she likes me?" Indeed, that was the entire message. And I didn't prompt him at all, nor did I tell anyone else I was going to test him. This was absolute proof for me that some people can read minds. I don't have proof about any other sort of psychic ability, but I do know at least that much for myself. And anyone else who knew Joe Weems very well knows it, too.

So, why don't you look up Joe, tell him about the million dollars up for grabs to anyone who can past the paranormal test and both of you retire ? :)

Searcher,

I believe you because I personally know
someone who can tell what you are thinking about. She as proved her ability
to me over and over again.Also, she would freak out a lot of people she worked with and even scared some quite severely.If you are say thinking about cleaning your room she sees this in her mind by way of a mental picture probably the same one you are thinking about.She has read my mind many times and says some people are
easier than others. Sometimes I have a mental gaurd up as she says and she cannot see what I'm thinking about . A
year ago she worked with someone who also had her ability and they would communicate back and for without saying a word!!This is the honest truth believe it or not.

Alien

Dave,

I have no idea what million bucks is up for grabs, but if I had any contact with Joe, I would certainly pass that on to him. I haven't seen Joe since about 1974, and he's never shown up at any of the reunions (I've been to all of them myself). But thanks for thinking of us.

Alien,

I was able to put a mental guard up with Joe, but only by not thinking about anything. I had a tendency to be on guard all the time around him. It was a little uncomfortable being around someone who always knew what you were thinking, even though I liked him very well.

That would be interesting for two people to be able to communicate back and forth to each other like that. Could they do it "long distance" or did they have to be in the same room, building, etc.?

Searcher,

You can read up on the $1 million prize at <A HREF="http://randi.org/">http://randi.org/</A>.

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I am; therefore I think.

Searcher,
Here it is - still unclaimed and the prize pool is still growing. Last count $1.112 million !!
http://www.randi.org/research/challenge/index.html

Send out a psychic message to Joe and see if long distance telepathic comms is possible with him.
Kind regards,
Dave.

Searcher,

I know what you mean when you know someone is reading your thoughts sometimes I am aware she is doing it,
its a weird feeling. As far as long distance goes, absolutely at least she can do it and I'm willing to bet Joe can too.

Alien

Boris & Dave,

Thanks for posting that website. It's funny, but the first question they ask is, "Can psychics really sense hidden secrets and help the police solve crimes?" Of course they do! This is common knowledge! It really makes me wonder what their criteria is! Maybe it's set up so no one could pass their test?

Funny you should mention that, Searcher,
Here's one unhappy and dubious guy who warns off about the challenge!
Check out the rules and what he thinks:
http://www.psicop.com/PV-970716-1b.htm

Regards,
Dave

Common knowledge to you; an unproven claim to me. Randi's demonstrations are set up as double-blind experiments, in a very scientific fashion. You can't cheat your way through, and you can't trick the audience into believing your "powers". The only way to pass the test is to actually use your powers to acquire information which you did not previously possess, and which you cannot obtain through any other means (such as questioning the participants, or deducing facts from interactions with them, for example.)

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I am; therefore I think.

[This message has been edited by Boris (edited October 10, 1999).]

Boris,

I think Riley G is right the whole thing sounds fixed to me.

Alien

I've got a question. A lot of times when I am in the car or in a public place, I will see an event happening and remember it from some other time, almost like de ja vous. I can't tell the future, but this tends to happen a lot. It also goes in stages. Like right now, I havent had it happen lately because Ive been busy with school, jazz band, and volleyball. But when I don't have any after school activities going on, this tends to happen a lot. Now these events are not significant in any way, like I once saw a lady walking briskly down the street and I seemed to remember this very vividlyI don't know that i'm going to see something in advace, it just hits me and gives me this feeling of, "wow, i have seen this before!" I never used to be a big believer in psycics, and I'm still not really. I do believe that some people just excell at some sort of "sixth sense." So does anyone have anything to say about my little happenings?

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I'm really not a shorty.

Maybe you're using a part of your brain that most people don't get in touch with very often. That's what I think deja vu is.

i see it has been a while since anyone wrote in but i wanted to post something because this really hits home for me.
alien i believe you could be talking about me. i don't claim to be psychic. i am very empathetic to people though. i know exactly how people feel in a situation that i myself might never have experieced. it's overwhelming sometimes so emotional for me that i am left feeling their pain, happiness, sadness, etc., for days or even weeks.
those who i am close to ie. spouse, mother, or best friend i become so empathetic towards that sometimes it seems as though i do read their minds. my mother and i have had experiences between us where we answered questions outloud that had not been spoken. the conversation usually goes something like this:
silence
i hear her ask me something and so i answer usually a yes or no.
she then replies that she didn't ask me that but that she had been thinking it.
afterwards i realize she's right no one had said anything.
there have been cases with people i care for deaply where something traumatic has happened in their lives and i know about it.
i've spooked the crap out of people by calling then and asking them what happened. usually they respond with "how did u do that". sometimes these are old friends. one particular old boyfried i still get that way with even having not spoken to him now in over a year.
i can get inside people's heads and know what they are thinking just having been around them very briefly. it scares a lot of people. i think they see it as an invasion of their privacy. i can understand, there are places in our minds where we feel uncomfortable allowing other people access.
i don't mind talking about this. it's part of what makes me who i am. it is in my family, passed to me from my mother. i don't view it as weird or supernatural. it's just how i am.
i'll be happy to entertain questions or comments on my e-mail, seeing as how i'll probably not make it back to this page for a while. just please type in a topic so i'll know or i won't open the email, security first and foremost.

Dave,

Thanks for sharing that! Sorry, but I didn't see it until today. That was interesting, and I think the guy has a valid point.

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www.indigenousrocks.com (http://www.indigenousrocks.com)

I do believe in 'psychic' ability, at least in part. I think a lot of people have been in a situation where they could read someone's mind. I personally am extremely tuned into my husband. I know what he is going to say before he says it most of the time. I will know his dreams when I wake up sometimes, very bizarre. I also used to be able to read my Mother's mind as a child. Very handy - I never got caught doing bad stuff because I always knew when she was trying to sneak up on me. :)

A theory I have is this - our thoughts are electrical impulses, right? And just like the radio signals we broadcast from point to point on Earth, they could be read by an exterior source, like from the moon. So when my husband is sitting there thinking "I wonder if there are any apples left in the fridge?" his electrical patterns of thought might be 'broadcast' though the air. Since I spend a lot of time with him and am very familiar with him, those patterns are recognized by me, and I can say "nope".

We've gotten to the point where he doesn't even ask me how I knew what he was thinking. I can't explain it, I can't do it on purpose, but I get the message anyway. I can sometimes read other people like this, but it happens most frequently with my closest friends and family. Of course, a part of that could very well be non-verbal clues - posture, breath patterns, etc. But it's soooo accurate and detailed when it happens I'm not inclined to believe that's the whole answer.

Here's a question - has anyone here ever done, or heard of someone that can communicate psychically with animals?? I ask this because I have heard my cats talk to me on 3 seperate occasions. Always I audibly hear my name, like it's spoken.

The first time it happened, I dismissed it. I was walking into my bedroom, and my mom's cat meowed at me. At that same instant, I heard a strange voice call my name. I looked at the cat, then looked around the house. I was alone. I thought I had imagined it.

2 years later, my kitten called my name, in the same way. I heard his little meow, and someone calling my name urgently. I first looked for the person calling me (heard my name twice) because they sounded hurt. Again, I was alone in the house. Next I looked for my kitten. His claw was caught in a drapery, all twisted and pulled. Definitely a sore paw. (Poor pooper!) Third time it happened, same cat - grown up. Came home from work, he meowed, someone said my name. That last one was about 6 months ago. It's beginning to bug me out. 2 different cats, three seperate occasions. Never my dog, or rabbit, or ferret, or any of the other pets I've had. Just cats. No other words either, always just my name being called. My husband thinks I'm nuts. Anyone have any ideas??

SkyeBlue,

I was able to relate to the first half of your post - my husband and I seem to read each other's minds quite a bit, and we're not able to control it either. As a kid, I was often been able to avoid getting in trouble by knowing that I was being watched or listened to; or that I was about to get caught doing something, although not always quite in time to get out of it.

I've also been able to walk in my bedroom when I was a kid and know that my mother had been in there snooping (which was later confirmed).

I've also suddenly known when my children were doing something they shouldn't be doing (my mother had this ability as well).

I don't really know how this sort of thing works, but I'm sure that you're pretty close to the actual explanation.

As for the second half of your post - about the cats - I've never heard about or experienced such a thing in my life! But then, I've always had dogs. Does your real name sound anything like a cat's meow, by any chance? Like Nell, for example? Just wondering...

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www.indigenousrocks.com (http://www.indigenousrocks.com)

Searcher -

Nope, my real name IS Skye. I haven't heard of anyone else having this happen either. It's not the same as when I 'read' my husband - with him it's like his thoughts are my thoughts, floaty, abstract kind of pictures and scenes and impulses. With my creepy cat-thing I actually audibly HEAR my name being called, it's so realistic it freaks me out because my first thought is always that there's a stranger in the house. It's only happened when I'm alone, so I can't ask anyone else if they heard anything.

The worst part is - I don't really believe it myself! The first couple of times it happened it didn't bug me, I figured it was my imagination. But that third time, it's just too many times, y'know?

Hey, maybe I'm not the psychic one - maybe I keep getting psychic cats!! LOL, I've had probably 20 different cats in the last 7 years or so, that's only 1 in 10 that can talk to me....

Reily G is a load of crap..

I used to brouse the news groups that he would shoot his pathetic mouth off in. EVERY time he made a perdiction about something it had already happend and he would claim that He perdicted it in advance. (actually he is still doing it with the Egypt air crash).. The guy is full of shit.. we tried to get him to agree on a simple test.. which was this.. "Tell me My Middle name" We set up a time day, location where I would be stareing at my Birth certificate.. he was too use his remote viewing power and see my middle name.. a very controled and fair experement in my opinion..

after he refused this test saying that it was a unfair test of his abilities.. (well after about 4-5 weeks of avoiding the test) I told him I would go to where he was to make it easyer, He refused and avoided again)

The guy is full of crap.. he manulipates vague "perdictions" such as "There will be a very bad storm" and claims he perdicted tornados.. (which are very common) Huricanes (which are very common) a building wall falling down on a sunny day (he claimed this was due to strange weather patterns that he perdicted).. the guy is full of himself..

The door is open but nobodys home..



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(Midnight@golden.net)
(Ouch.my.head)
(http://home.golden.net/~midnight/)

SkyeBlue -

Merry Meet! I am fascinated about your experience with cats "speaking" to you. Do you believe in totem spirits and familiars?

I keep finding your posts and you sound like you might be what I like to call "a witch in denial". I'm not trying to convert you to witchcraft, or anything. I am really getting a strange feeling about you.

Communication with animals is a strong sign - I'm going to make a guess, you tell me if I'm right. You've been feeling a calling towards a power larger than yourself lately, and it keeps getting stronger and stronger, especially very recently? My feeling is that the Gods & Goddesses are trying to tell you something. Do you still live with the cat that talks to you? I think he/she could possibly be a familiar to you. Familiars choose us, not the other way around. I would be interested in finding out how you got that particular cat, if you don't mind. If the cat came to you, I'd say almost for sure he/she's a familar that seeked you out.

I've never known a witch lucky enough to have actual audible communication with a familiar, if this cat is indeed a familiar you really have something special. Luck be with you, m'dear!

Lady -

Greetings!

Umm, woah, where to start? Yes I do still own that cat. He's my favorite of the bunch (I'm a sucker for animals - 1 dog, 4 cats and a bunny is the current count). His father was a stray in the neighborhood that adopted us. His dad got hit by a car, and then a week later my neighbor's cat had kittens. This little guy looked so much like his daddy I had to take him. He's been an absolute joy ever since. Don't know if that means anything to you...

I can't say I believe in Gods & Goddesses, and though I do find the idea of a totem spirit or familiar to be a nice idea, I can't really say I believe it either. But, then again, I don't believe in speaking cats either... Very confusing. What's a familiar supposed to do, anyway? I never really thought about that before, I always thought that was a myth having to do with the witch hunts or something. I thought it was just the (accused) witch's pet...I guess I should do a little research!

"Witch in denial" - that kinda makes me laugh. (No offense!) I don't know though, maybe you're right. I guess I'm more inclined to believe in some of the pagan 'truths' than I am inclined to follow any organized religions. I really like the flexibility and self-restrictions and self-responsibility that seem to be the norm in the 'earth religions'. Karma...I think it exists, but I am not really buying the idea that it follows over from life to life. What poor etherial secretary has the task of making sure the karma carries over to a new incarnation? Now THAT's a crappy job! I've looked into the sort of "white bread American" religions, and they don't fit well in my mind. I read your other post, somewhere, about the 'pyramid of power'. That sounds close to what I feel is right, but I don't buy the God & Goddess stuff. Sounds too good to be true, know what I mean? There's all these Gods & Goddesses just floating about, waiting to do favors? Maybe I just don't get it.

Okay, and now I'm just delaying. You're kinda spooking me out a bit, Lady. You've pretty much hit the nail on the head with your guess. Though, it's more like I "know" there's something out there, and I'm trying to match something to it. But, yes, lately it's been getting more intense. More Deja-vu (sp?), more dreams coming true, more 'gut' feelings being verified... It's getting weird!! I came to this forum to sort of sound my impressions out on others - I figure that if I AM close to some kind of truth, I must not be the only one to have discovered it! So far, the ideas and guidance I've gotten from everyone here has helped a lot - some I disagree with, some I agree with. It's inspired me to do more and more research, and I must admit that witchcraft is suprisingly close to what I already felt was the answer. Does that make any sense? I guess what I'm doing is trying to find those that agree with my beliefs and impressions, and see what ELSE they know.

It's been a very confusing, but rewarding few months, and that's about all I'm sure of anymore. :) But I'm trying to keep my mind open...

SkyeBlue -

A familiar is something like an assistant to a witch. A familiar shouldn't be treated like an ordinary pet, but more like a friend. Of course, if you're like me, you DO treat your pets like friends, but that's irrelevant to what I'm trying to say. :)

Animals have better senses (both physical and spiritual) than most humans do, and sometimes while casting a spell I can watch my familiar to see her reactions which helps me strengthen or weaken the spell if it's too strong or too weak. It takes a while to learn your familiar's body language, but once you do, they're invaluable. Familiars don't have to be cats, by the way. Any animal can be. My familiar happens to be a beautiful African Grey parrot named Luna.

SkyeBlue - it sounds like you ARE finding the path to witchcraft. Don't worry that it doesn't all make sense yet. I studied for 2 1/2 years before I felt like I could accurately call myself a witch, I'm still learning 2 years later, and I will continue to learn until the day I die. It doesn't happen overnight, and like anything worthwhile it does take a lot of hard work. Just keep your mind open, your eyes open, and your heart open and you WILL find truth. Ask questions, meditate on the answers you get. Nobody is the same, so what works very well for one witch is totally ineffective for another. If you hear something that you don't entirely agree with, it's perfectly okay to take what DOES sound right and discard the rest.

Witchcraft is a very individual thing - you should feel free to personalize anything, there's no 'wrong' way to do it, if you're being true to yourself. That's the most important point I can try to make. Another thing is to be choosy whom you allow to mentor you - make sure they're not a charlatan or cultist. Anyone claiming that they know the RIGHT way or the ONLY way is NOT a true witch. I suggest several different mentors, and most important is to read, read, read everything you get your hands on. Amidst all the words all the authors have placed on the pages, there are truths.

I must be off. Blessings to you all. :)

Lady O' The Green-Where were you when I needed you? ;)

As much as I have walked away from religion, some part tells me that the door is still open should I choose to come back. In my quest for inner peace, I found it only in my books. I met so many charlatans and frauds that the crystal dream was shattered. I kept seeing so many claiming to know the One True Way that I left witchcraft for the same reason I left Christianity and Catholicism. No path seemed right for me except for the philosophies of the Gorin No Sho, which centered around Zen. I followed that path, which led me away from following the dogmas of others and then left me to find my own path.

The freedom of my path is, I suppose, better than being dragged around in chains by spirit-merchants, but you have presented a comfortable angle for me to remember.

Thank you for leaving a light on for this wandering soul. :)

Skye Blue,
I have a friend who has recently discovered that he can 'communicate' with animals and that he can heal them when they're sick, his hands radiate an intense heat when he's healing.
I used to have another friend, who once told me that during an evening of intense meditation, his cat spoke to him and told him that in a previous life he (the cat) used to be a Scotsman and that so did my friend and that they came from the same village! my friend was Nigerian by the way. A few months later my friend told me that he'd got really pissed off with his cat because it was urinating all over the house and that it had urinated on his bed. I asked him what he did about it, ' Oh,' he said, ' I drove him about 10 miles from the house and left him in the woods!'
This friend was a strict vegetarian, animal rights activist and a 'kind of' Buddhist. I said to him, with a tongue in cheek, 'But your cat was a Scotsman, you were from the same village. How could you do that to him?'
He said,'It was just too much man, the place stank of cats pee'.
So much for looking after ones own, eh?

Oxygen -

Merry Meet, m'lady!

Thank you for the lovely comments, you've given me my warm fuzzy for the day :)

I firmly believe that each person should, and really needs to find their own path where spirituality is concerned. Our brains function best with symbols - from the words we speak to the art we make, to the religions we follow, it's all based on symbols. Since symbols vary from culture to culture, it seems absurd to me to say there's only ONE way to find the spiritual "truth". For example, a raised middle finger in one culture may be an insult, in another culture it could be a come-on. Is one wrong and the other right? Preposterous!

I am glad you have found a path that works for you, Oxygen! Spiritual fulfilment is a wonderful thing. Just don't forget to keep growing and learning. :)

Tablariddim - that's awful, what your friend did! Sounds like his poor feline friend had a bit of trouble, so he abandoned him like a sack of garbage. According to my beliefs, your friend will have some heavy karma to deal with stemming from that, if he hasn't already. I can't imagine doing something like that! Communicating with another beast on such a level is a precious gift, and he threw it away. Literally!!

I also know someone that has healing hands. Intense heat, just as you said, radiates from her hands. Oh, talk about a marvelous massage... I have a little of that - I don't get the heat like she does, but when I touch someone, I can tell where they hurt. By concentrating I can see it in their aura's too, but I usually have to be touching the person's skin. That's more of an empathic kind of thing though. I can't heal as well as she can, though.

I think healing hands is a pretty common thing - I have heard of several other people with that particular gift, though I haven't met them all. The girl I do know, it seems to run in her family - both her mother and aunt also have the ability. Her mother is a midwife and I hear she is VERY popular with new mothers - I guess having someone able to pull pain away from you would be handy while giving birth! :)

I must away again. Luna calls for me, she must want a treat.

Tab' - Ouch, I agree with Lady, here. Your friend ought to be dumped off in a forest somewhere! Sounds like Kitty had a bladder infection to me. :( Poor little one!

Do you know if your friends could audibly hear the animals? Or was it something through a trance/meditative state? I've heard of people communicating through a trance or whatever, but not actually hearing them with their ears. Of course, I guess I could be mistaken about hearing them - maybe it WAS a 'telepathic' or similar communication and my brain just interpreted it as actual sound. I wish I could have somehow had a tape recorder going or something. Sigh.

Lady - Thanks for the scoop on familiars. You've given me some food for thought. You didn't mention the Gods & Goddesses, though. What's their story? I mean, why do they grant wishes or spells or prayers, or whatever? What's their interest in us? Why should they care? If they aren't good or evil, they wouldn't feel obligated towards us, or feel like doing good deeds, right? I've found a lot of literature about the god/esses but nothing clarifies my questions. Sorry if I'm pestering you, but this is kinda the one 'hanging' point I have in following any religion - I just can't bring myself to believe in some superintelligent superpowerful being(s)... And, hey, thanks for answering my questions without TELLING me how things work. I appreciate your feelings that each person must find their own path - it sits very well with me. :) Give Luna a cracker for me!

SkyeBlue,

I'm with you on the Gods & Goddesses thing. I have also been very interested in Wicca, but deep down inside I'm just not a religious person. I mean, I really don't feel that I'm capable of worshipping anyone or anything, if it ever comes to that, not to mention that I have a hard time even believing in the idea of Gods and Goddesses. I prefer the idea of communicating with whatever spirit presents itself to me that I find agreeable, as a student might communicate with a respected teacher. But worship is simply out of the question for me. That is the one "hanging point" I have with every religion I've flirted with so far.

But I also agree that there is a strong draw for me to Witchcraft and there has been for many years (for nearly as long as I can remember). For awhile, I even felt there was a spirit of some sort in my home who was letting me know he was there and waiting to help me whenever I was ready. I just never reached that point, I guess. I haven't heard from my "spirit friend" for many months now. It may sound odd, but I really do miss feeling his presence, and even the little things he occasionally did to let me know he was around.

Lady, do you have any ideas about this? The most blatant thing my spirit friend ever did to announce his presence to me was to turn on a light about 2 seconds after I had just turned it off - and it came back on with an audible "click". I think he did it to get my attention and let me know that instead of hitting the snooze bar on my alarm clock, I had accidentally reset it. I would have been late for work that morning if he hadn't gotten my attention that way. At any rate - whatever his intentions, as soon as the light came back on, I wondered if he was trying to tell me something, and that was all I could think of - and as it turned out, that's exactly what had happened. There were many other incidents, but that was the boldest thing he ever did. I was also very often able to feel his presence, usually as if he were standing just behind my left shoulder. Does that mean anything to you?

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www.indigenousrocks.com (http://www.indigenousrocks.com)

Mmm, ah, oh. Merry Meet, good morn' to all!

Searcher & SkyeBlue, you're right, I did skip the God and Goddess in my last post. Mea culpa!

The God and Goddess, and the other "minor" gods and goddesses are probably the most tricky part of it all. I'll try to explain my thoughts on the subject, but keep in mind this is only MY interpretation. :)

The gods and goddesses don't need to be worshipped, per se. I think there are perhaps multiple meanings to the word worship, depending on your faith. When *I* say I am "worshipping" a god or goddess, I use that phrase to mean I am asking for their help, or thanking them for thier help. It's not the "oh, great goddess, you're so wonderful and powerful...". That's just sucking up, to my eye! ;)

I don't think they're all-powerful or all-knowing, either. They're tainted by humans - they aren't the pure power that runs the place. They're just the lightbulbs that the electricity makes glow, if I may use a clumsy analogy. They can make mistakes, they can be lazy, they can get angry, get flattered, all the same stuff humans experience.

I beleive the gods and goddesses were formed by human thoughts - our minds grab onto that pure power and try to shape it into something we are more able to understand and relate to (symbolism!). The more minds creating the same shape, the more distinct that shape becomes, and the more power it gets. That's why I call to the "christian" god sometimes in my spells - there are a lot of minds shaping that particular god, he must have quite a bit of power. I usually call on him when I am asking a favor for one of my Christian friends - that person might get best assistance from the God they praise is my hope.

BUT, if you aren't comfortable dealing with the gods and goddesses, guess what? You don't have to! You can try to influence the pure power all by yourself. It might be a little more difficult, because you will have to do so much at once - pull the power down to a useful level, shape it to your intentions, and then direct the power to your will, but it certainally can be done. Remember, it's all about the symbols. If the god/desses aren't symbols that you are comfortable with, you are probably better off not using them. If you wish, you can try to create your own power, your own god/dess. That's essentially the same as trying to deal with the pure power, only you are adding a symbolic presence to the power, which might make it easier for you to relate to. Or, you can deal with the 'lesser' powers - animal spirits, magical herbs and stones, etc.

As always, I suggest doing what feels the most natural to you. Your mind already knows what symbols are powerful to you, just clear your mind and use what comes to you. That's the most effective way to find your path that I can think of. Searcher - you sound like you already do this - whatever spirit presents themselves to you is the one you should run with, be it a god, goddess, animal spirit, or anonymous helper.

Searcher - your spirit friend is very interesting! I notice you call it a 'him' - I think that's important. I think there's probably been a lot more communication between you two than you probably realise. I can't know why he stopped visiting you, perhaps you needed a little guidance for a time and that need has passed, or perhaps he feels you are aware of him and he doesn't need to present himself so blatantly to you anymore. I have a feeling he'll come back to you if you need him and ask for him to. As to what exactly he was, well, that's a hard one. Could be a minor god, could be an animal spirit, could be a human spirit that hasn't integrated back into the power yet. I think if you meditate on it, and ask him who he is, he might tell you. Or he might not. Some of these guys are tricksters, and he might enjoy giving you this little mystery. Interesting that you always felt him by your left shoulder. What does "left" mean to you? Are you right handed? The spirits deal in symbols, he might have been trying to tell you something by 'touching' you on that side, or, maybe that's just where he felt most comfortable.

I'm sorry, I think I'm not being too helpful. But I think YOU are the only person that can answer those questions. The symbols are in YOUR subconcious, and none but you can 'read' them.

Okay, it's way to early for me. I must away. Merry Part, my ladies. :)

Lady -

Wow, this is good stuff here. I don't think I've heard them explained quite that way before. Let me see if I'm understanding...

They (gods & goddesses), might or might not help us, depending on if they feel like it, or are moved by our wishes/spells/prayers? I guess if humans did 'form' them, maybe some are formed more helpful than others... They exist because we made them, mmmm. Gotta think on that, but I can't object off hand. It certainally is easier to think of them as symbolic forms of power - I agree humans are symbolic thinkers. I have crazy dreams that prove THAT to me! :) What do you think of dream analysis, by the way?

I have to say, when you talk about making your own god, it reminded me of that Depeche Mode song "Personal Jesus". ;)

Oh, crud. I gotta go back to work. More later, from me.

Lady, I have to say I'm sure glad you joined our little group here. You have such a great view on things, I feel like I'm learning a lot from you. :) Thank you!

Lady,

You do have some interesting ideas - and I like them! "Sucking up" would be exactly how I feel about what goes on in church - that's what I can't stand about it!

As for why my spirit friend seemed to be on my left side most often, I have no idea myself. I am right-handed, and the "left" can mean a number of things - one can be left-brained (more mathematical and logical), or lean to the left politically (more liberal); the heart is one the left side; in dog-training, the left side is the submissive side; the left hand is less important than the right hand (to a right-hander, that is)...that's about all that comes to mind right now. I'm not sure what it means to me - I'll have to meditate on it a bit more, I guess. But at least you've given me some new things to think about!

You are a breath of fresh air here, Lady! I hope you'll stick around awhile. :)

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www.indigenousrocks.com (http://www.indigenousrocks.com)

Lady,
do you wiggle your nose with a ding aling aling sound, when casting a spell?

Tab'- Heh, heh, I used to try to wiggle my nose like that when I was a kid. Never got the hang of it. I can't wiggle my ears, either. :(


Searcher - Isn't the word "sinister" derived from the latin word for left? Not that your spirit-friend seems sinister or anything, he actually seems pretty cool.

SkyeBlue,

You're right! Sinister is derived from the Latin "sinestra", which means "left". And do you remember the cartoons with the devil on one side trying to talk the cartoon character into doing something wrong, while the angel was on the other side trying to talk him into doing the right thing? Which side was the devil on? Wasn't it always the left side?

You may have a point there, but I never felt my friend was evil (only because he never did anything I could interpret as being evil). But now that you mention it, I do remember asking at one point that if there were any evil spirits around me that they be on their way. That might have been what did it, you think? That's a disappointment - I really liked the guy!

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www.indigenousrocks.com (http://www.indigenousrocks.com)

Tablariddim -

:) No, no, I can't wiggle my nose like that. And unfortunately the noises that come out of my nose aren't "ding aling aling" noises!

Searcher & SkyeBlue-

:) Thank you for the compliments! I love sharing my views with all of you! In the past, I have been called 'student' and I have been called 'teacher', but who learns the most, the person listening, or the person explaining? I think perhaps I should be thanking all of you for helping me to examine the craft again, through fresh eyes!

Searcher -

On to your question...since you didn't list "evil" or "sinister" with your original list of left-associations, I don't think that's a valid symbol for you. This makes me think that your friend appearing on your left side was not symbolic of evil for you.

Whatever the image of evil was in your mind when you made your wish is what would likely be effected by the wish. So if you said "evil leave me" and pictured as evil anything that would cause malicious harm, that's what would be included. If you pictured anything that was strange or unknown as evil, that is what would be affected. So, it is really dependant upon what you were envisioning when you made your request. Could you have accidentally included your friend? If so, it sounds like you just asked them to leave, perhaps you can invite him back.

If you did shoo him off accidentally, he might be a little brat when he first comes back though. Don't be surprised or nervous, I've known many a spirit to throw a temper tantrum, but they always have come out of it. And they seem to be grateful for a little understanding afterwards. Sheepish, even! :)

SkyeBlue -

:) I had that song in my head when I wrote that, as well.

Dream analysis...I do believe in it, but I am always skeptical of anyone who claims to be able to interpret OTHER people's dreams. I don't trust those "dream dictionaries", they might be okay for getting a broad sense of a dream, assuming the author and the reader share the same cultural environment. I think dreams are our conscious mind and our subconscious minds merging. Like the phrase "sleep on it" - I think our subconscious minds are much more clever and thoughtful than our conscious minds are. I call it 'hindbrain' and 'forebrain'. Our hindbrains are always aware of the details - I think that's why hypnosis works so well for crime witnesses and the like. I believe our hindbrainds are more richly symbolic, and I think the hindbrain accounts for the bulk of our personalities. I think that's a big part of learning witchcraft; teaching our hindbrains and forebrains to communicate on command. Not always an easy task, especially if you are scared or angry or otherwise upset while trying to cast a spell. Training and practice help overcome that, though.

But, I digress! SkyeBlue, yes, you are understanding what I am saying. I think our spells help compell the God/desses to our bidding, but they can refuse. BUT, (and you'll get sick of hearing me say this) you need to find out what they mean to YOU, if they do indeed hold ANY meaning for you. A meaningless symbol is like a cobweb drinking vessel; it won't do you any good to slake your thirst even though it looks pretty! (Hey, that's pretty clever, I'll have to remember that one!) ;)

Merry Part lovies, I am between computers and borrowing a friend's - my PC caught a virus that ate my hard drive. :( That's okay I wanted a new computer anyway. (At least that's what I keep telling myself.)

Lady -

Sorry to hear about your computer! Mine has been acting up as well. I sure hope it gets all straightened out for you!

I really like your cobweb drinking glass analogy. I'll have to remember that one. Mind if I use it now and then?

You know, Lady, it's so wonderful, all this witchcraft. I have believed for so many years things that are so, so close to what I keep reading about withcraft. I always wondered if I'd find a religion that matched my beliefs, and now I kinda feel like I have. I believe in science, and witchcraft is a perfect blend of spirituality and the clockwork of the universe.

I told my husband last night that I wanted to study witchcraft seriously. I had a strange rush of energy when I said those words, and I think this could really be something powerful for me. I expected him to poke a bit of fun at me, but he didn't. He was concerned at first, but I began to explain what it REALLY is about, and soon he was nodding his head at what I was saying. :) He understood it quite easily, and perhaps soon he will begin to study it too? Anyway, we went shopping last night and I picked up Silver RavenWolf's "To ride a Silver Broomstick". It seems to be on every "must read" list for new witches, so I figured it would be a good place to start.

I have figured out my interpretation of the God and Goddess, too. It came to me this morning, as I was driving here to work. I love nature, I love the moon, I love the sun, I am a literal tree-hugger. (If I'm ever angry or upset, hugging a tree has always had an amazingly peaceful effect on me, I don't know why.) So, I realized this morning that I have always spoken to the Green Mother. I have always spoken to the moon, and the sun. So, to me, the God is the Sun and the Sky - the Gold Father, the Blue Father. The Goddess is the Moon and the Earth - the Silver Mother, the Green Mother. That might sound really obvious to you, but for some reason I didn't ever realize that what I was doing was speaking to a God and a Goddess. :) So, I feel like they already know me, I've been asking them for balance in my own life for some time now!

I'm excited even though I know I have a long journey of study ahead of me, a lot of discipline I will need to learn if I ever want to cast an effective spell (which I do!), and a lot of inner truths to find. I have been doing a lot of the inner searching for a long time though, so I feel like I'm well on my way. But, I will be patient, and thourough. I will learn, and learn, and learn. As always. :)

Anyway, I do have to get to work. I'm just so glad to have made this decision, it was a long time in coming, and I'm confident that it's going to turn out to be the right decision for me. I just wanted to share it with you, Lady. I hope you get a computer soon, I can't wait to hear from you again!

I only have a second, so this must be brief.

SkyeBlue -

Congratulations on your decision to "Pick up the broomstick" so to speak. I hope you find many new truths in your journey. I recommend keeping a log of your thoughts and anything new you learn. Go back to earlier entries and add to them as you add to your knowledge. I am here for you if you wish to ask any questions! Just remember that I may not use the same parts of the power you do, take everything I (and anyone else says) with a big fat grain of salt. :) Use what comes naturally to you, and you will not go wrong.

Merry Part, I must