Hi guys,
I have always wondered with all these droughts n people dying due to lack of water, why ahve we with all these advances in technology, not been able to create water artifically..After all it seems like a simple process of combining hydrogen and oxygen..at least to me it looks simple..

is it becoz of the cost involved...but then so many countries in the middle east spend billions of dollars in building desalination plants?

is it becoz of the dangers involved in handling hydrogen as it is very highly explosive in nature...but surely there are so many industries which do create / handle / store hydrogen..surely there r in built safety procedures by now..

Hoping to have all the xperts give in their comments n broaden my insight ;-)

cheers

It's because we don't have any way to get enough hydrogen. You need a lot of hydrogen gas to make water. We get hydrogen industrially by stripping the hydrogen atoms off of fossil fuels.

In theory the arabs could live from their huge oil reserves alone:

The oil could be stripped from hydrogen which could be made into water, the remaining C, H and N etc... atoms could be the building blocks for food and medicines....


Technological feasable YES, economical NO (not yet) , it's cheaper to import food and have old fashioned dessalination plants...

But this Universal Molecule Assembler is the kind of technology we need if we are to colonize space.

There never will be a shortage of water supply in the world as 72 % of the world is coverd in water, the real issue is weather or not humans decide to work for the beeter of each other, by using the technology that exist, of which they have gained by years of working togeather in various ways. invention!
the event of provideing water to any land mass which would include the sahara desert is a mattter of piping the water. where in sea water can be conveteed to fresh water simpley by running sea water over porus rocks for X number of miles. the requirement is that a trench is dug by use of tractors, the trench is x number of miles long, the trench is then filled with porus rocks and then sand, it is preferable to run the water from the hottes region to the coldest, but it can operate the oppostie, after the trench is complete the wall holding back the sea wter is opened or tore down, and the water travel the length of the trench, as the water travels the length of the trench the impuities are removed after x number of distance travelled, the saline or salt weights it self out of the water during the night hours and is abosobed as is the inpurites. at the end of x number of miles the water is pure water.
the same procces occurs in nature, called mountian river water, moutian river water in addtion to falling from the sky and melting from ice, flows over miles of mountiain rocks called river rocks which make it some of the purist water avialable, this is true above a certain elevation, where much of the river ways are coverd with rock instead of silt, as you get father down the river the water picks up impurites from the silt and later must be fliterd and clorine or florine added to it as well it must be filtered and then placed in reseviors, however if you pipe the water from the upper elevations there is no need to filter the water as it is clear craytal montain water.
The same proccess that occures in nature can be used for sea water, once you come to the fact of how water pruifcation occurs naturally on earth, the procces above is a major advancement, and would be the procces of fresh water in the future, it will eleiminate the advent of any desert on earth, regardless of how large the desert is, run water to a desert is a good circumstance because deserts are exstremmly cold during the night, causing saline or salt to sink in the river trench and seperate from the water, later the salt can not re enter the water as it can not gain enough tempture as the water refelcts the sun light from the bottom therfore the water just keeps getting purer with less saline. what is even better about the proccess is that when the trench has say aborbed a large amount of salt and impruirties, the sea inlet can be closed and treactors can clear out the trenc and you have concentrated layers of many minerals that can be used by industry or private persons, such eleiminates strip mining and refine procces by X precent. later the sea inlet can be opened and the proccess began again. such a practice would produce tons and tons of mineral resources, example some rivers have gold bottoms which is why early gold panners would pan rivers.
A goverment investment in new technology regarding filters developed by several companies and individuals, would be a good cause as some of these fliters clean sea water in to fresh water with just the use of a filter and water at high pressure.

In end result it is a matter of those countries that are willing to build twenty mile trenches 100 mile trenches, even the great wall of china size trenches to have a endless supply of fresh water for agriculture needs and whatever. failure to make use of this natural technology can be moer costly than a commitment to national water suppply by the metahod. after all it is not exspensive to run a tractor and dig a ditch or to find rocks on the earth. lastly it up them to decide.
DWAYNE D.L.RABON

HYDROGEN IS EXSPLOIVE WHEN IN A ATMOSPHERE OF OXYGEN, WHEN IN A ATMOSPHERE OF OXYGEN AND IGNITED THE HYDROGEN BURNS AT VERY HIGH TEMPTURES IN THE PROCESS OF BURNING HYDROGEN AND OXYGEN FORM WATER. THE DANGER OF WORKING WITH HYDROGEN IS THE EVENT THAT HYDROGEN AND OXYGEN WILL MIX, IF YOU SPRING A LEAK THE HYDROGEN WILL LEAK OUT AND THE OXYGEN WILL SEEP IN WARD TO THE TANK,OF HYDROGEN A IGNITON BY A STATIC CHARGE, SPARK ECT... WILL CAUSE FOR IT TO IGNITE AND BECOME EXSPLOSIVE, MEANING THE HYDROGEN WILL OXIDIZE QUICKLY CAUING A EXSPLOSION, THE EXSPLOSION OCCURS FASTER THAN THE CHEMICAL PROCCESS OF WATER FORMATION, THERFORE A EXSPLOSION IN STEAD OF WATER, THE AFTER EVENT OF EXSPLOSION RESULTS IN WATER. THIS BURNING OF HYDROGEN IS ONLY VERY DANGEROUS WHEN A CONTAINMENT OF HYDROGEN IS USES, MEANING THAT IF YOU BURN HYDROGEN IN OPEN AIR YOU GET JUST A VERY HOT FLAME, THE DANGER IS WHEN THE EXSPANSION OF THE BURING GAS IS PREVENTED BY COMPRESION OF A CONTAINER AS WITH ANY GAS UNDER CONTAINMENT, WHEN THE COMPRESION EXCCEEDS THE STRENGTH OF THE CONATINER WALL A EXSPLOSION OCCURS, IF THE CONATINER IS DESIGEN TO HOLD THE FORCE OF THE EXSPLOSION SUCH AS IN A CAR ENGINE NOTHEING HAPPENS BUT WHEN YOU OPEN THE CONTAINER IT WILL BE FULL OF WATER. BECAUSE HYDROGEN BURNS SO HIGH IN TEMPTURE MOST MATERIALS WOULD JUST MELT, THIS MEANS THAT A EXSPLOSION WILL OCCUR, IF YOU COULD CONATIN HYDROGEN IN SARAN WRAP THE SARAN WARP CONATINER WOULD MELT BEFORE THE PRESSURE OF THE HEATED GAS COULD BECOME A EXSPLOSION THIS MEANS IS WOULD BE A VERY BRITE FLAME AND THEN A POOL OF WATER OR MIST, IF YOU HAVE HYDROGEN IN A CONATINER AND THE HYRDROGEN IS FORCED OUT OF THE CONATINER YOU CAN BURN THE HYDROGEN WITH A EXSLOPSION, THIS IS WHAT IS DONE IN WELDING, AND IN EGNINES SUCH AS ON THE ROCKETS. IN GENERAL HYDROGEN IS ONLY EXSPOLIVE WHEN IT IS IN A ATMOSPHER OF OXYGEN, OTHER WISE IT IS SUBJECT ONLY TO A THERMAL RATE OF EXSPANSION, MEANING THAT IT WILL BUILD UP PRESSURE AND THEN BREAK THE CONATINER WHICH ALLOWS OXYGEN TO CAUSE IT TO BURN AND EXSPLODE, THE SAME CAN BE SDAUD FOE NITROGEN BUT NITROGEN DOES NOT EXSPLODE, IT JUST EXSPANDS AT A HIGH RATE, MANY ELEMENTS IF HEATED TO THE TEMPTURES OF THE SUN WILL BECOME EXSPLOSIVE. HYDROGEN BURNS VERY HOT. TO UNDER STAND HOW HYDROGEN WOULD BURN IN A BALLON YOU CAN LOOK AT PICTURES OF THE HINDENBERG ZEPPLIN, A HYROGEN BALLON THAT WAS DESTROYED MANY YEARS AGO, AND WAS THE CAUSE FOR CHANGE TO THE USE OF HELIUM.
THERE IS HYDROGEN RISING IN THE AIR ALL AROUND YOU, EVERY DAY IT ESCAPES FORM THE ATMOSPHERE OF THE EARTH.
WHEN WORKING WITH HYDROGEN YOU MUST REMEMBER THAT IT BURNS HOT AND VERY QUICKLY, AND TO AVOID HIGH CONCENTRATION OF IT UNDER PRESSURE AND EXSPOSED TO OXYGEN, IF HYDROGEN IS RELEASED IN TO THE ATMOSPHERE IT WILL ESCAPE VERY QUICKLY, THERE IS NO EXSPLOSION IN SUCH A RELEASE, TO BE EXSPLOVIVE IT MUST BE EXSPOSED AND CONTAINED UNDER PRESSURE, OTHER WISE IT JUST BURNS VERY HOT. IN BOTH CASES MAKING WATER.
DWAYNE D.L.RABON

THE HINDENBERG AND HYDROGEN THE MYTH ABOUT CONATINING HYDROGEN (http://www.clean-air.org/hindenberg.htm)


http://www.jerseyboardwalk.com/hinden.jpg


DWAYNE D.L.RABON

Of course it didn't help that the Hindenburg was painted with rocket fuel as well. :bugeye: Had that not been so, it might not have been quite as tragic, since any fire from hydrogen would have been at the top where it was escaping, and only as the hydrogen became exposed to the air. Assuming the hydrogen was the ignition point in the first case, I had thought the spark ignited the paint, which then quickly spread. The hydrogen was just another fuel thrown in the mix.

The hydrogen in the Hindenburg did not ignite first. It was something in the skin or in the H2 cells.

You know they burn thousands of cubic yards of natural gas at the well because it's too expensive to ship it?

Well according to record excluding the events of sabatoge? the hindenberg whent up in flames because a charge built up on the out side of the ship and ignited the hydrogen the was sepping from the letoff vaules sattioned in the top, of the ballon. here the gases that where being letoff by the descent, (possibbly a automatic pressure release which is in ballons of advanced designed) mixed with the oxygen and where ignited, the intense heat that traveled in to the vaule melted the fabric and aluminum frame sending energy down the aluminum frame as thermal energy, exspanding the hydrogen in compartment holding sacks, this reduced the energy nessacary per area relative absortion area, causing the hydrogen to burn. the reason that the hindenberg did not explode as a exsplovise is that there was not great amount of compression build up by the shell, no compression occured as a event that even though the hydrogen was concentrated it burn so hot that the conatiner melted before any compression could be build up, therfore as sooon as the hydrogen was ignited it melted the container and loss prressure, it just goes to show how fast and hot hydrgoen burns.
the events of the first ignition near and in the letoff vaules was enough to melt the fabric container and the aluminum frame in seconds, therefore it would have burned the hydrogen sacks the entire length of the hindenberg in a matter of miuntes and seconds, releasing the compression and burning off.
A example of how fast that happen is that if you look at how fast a match stic would burn, by the time it was half burned or so the hydrogen would have been burning off, this means that the flames you see in the pictures of the hindenberg buring are pictures of the shell which was made of fabric burning, as the hydrogen was already burnt, and had seeped into the atmosphere before it even got a chance to burn.
The hindenberg was a event that happen to simular ballonist in the early days of hydrogen balloning a source of energy ignites the hydrogen at the valve, in the early days of balloning some ballons igntied from the seepage of the hydrogen gas from the shell of the container membrane, meaning where the pressures increases the hydrogen seeps through the shell, like pouring water through a piece of paper or filter, becuase the hydrogen seeps though the membrane of the shell if a heat source or energy source the shell igintes burning a hole it the shell membrane and burning up the hydrogen, leaving the passangers to fall to the ground, this seepage happen in the earlt days as some ballonist did not make the proper kind of shell membrane to hold the hydrgen, or more plainly they just would use any kind of fabric that would hold the hydrogen long enough for them to get in to the sky. hydrogen is considered to be a very difficult gas to hold for long periods of time even by the exsperts, and is way hydrogen and helium are stored at low tempture as many gases.
The success of ballonist in the early day was to to the event that hydrogen escapes so fast that even if a near by charge is in the air near the ballon it is difficult for the charge to travel to the ballon as the hydrogen is traveling so fast, as well the wind blowing the hydrogen here and there causeing gaps. as the hydrogen seeps thorugh the ballon, the compression changes all over the ballon at different rates meaning that some seeps thorugh here and some seeps thorugh there, and for these reason, wind, pressure change on seepage, and hydrogens fast esacpe rate, many early ballonist ended up being safe and pleasnt jouneys.
DWAYNE D.L.RABON

Point, Dwayne: One major reason the H2 didn't explode was that it is stored on the cells pure, diluting it with air decreases the bouyancy. Thus the only hydrongen that could burn was th egas escaping.

Dwayne,

http://www.hydrogennow.org/Facts/Safety.htm

The Facts on the Hindenburg Disaster:

1. The bags of hydrogen that provided the lifting force for the Hindenburg were NOT the main contributor to the fire. The surface of the ship was coated with a combination of dark iron oxide and reflective aluminum paint. These components are extremely flammable and burn at a tremendously energetic rate once ignited. The skin of the airship was ignited by electrical discharge from the clouds while docking during an electrical storm. This reaction has been proven chemically for years, and was demonstrated with actual remnants of the Hindenburg sixty years later, which burned as vigorously as on the day of the disaster.
2. The hydrogen burned quickly, safely, above the occupants. When the escaping hydrogen was ignited by the burning skin of the airship, it burned far above the airship, and was completely consumed within 60 seconds of the ignition. During this period of time, the airship descended to the ground from the 150-foot docking tower.
3. Almost all deaths were caused by jumping or falling from the airship. Of the 35 deaths from the disaster, 33 were caused by jumping or falling. Only two deaths were caused by burning, and it is likely that those two were from proximity to the burning skin of the airship, or from the stores of diesel fuel that were ignited by the covering. Whereas the hydrogen burned within one minute of ignition, the diesel fires burned for up to ten hours after the ignition.
4. The Hindenburg would have burned if it had been filled with inert helium gas. Even if the Hindenburg had not been lifted by hydrogen, the ignition of the covering would still have happened, and would then have set ablaze the diesel stores, resulting in the same disaster.
5. The main cause of the disaster was pilot error. The only way to prevent the disaster would have been if the pilot had chosen to land in better conditions elsewhere, which was very feasible, considering he had had enough fuel remaining to reach all the way to California.

I read you JAXOM
DWAYNE D.L.RABON

The important thing to remember is that hydrogen is a way to store energy; it's not a source of energy. Even if we switched to a 'hydrogen economy' tomorrow, we would still be just as dependant on nuclear and coal power plants to provide us with energy.

People keep complaining about a lack of a distribution system. Can't we use the pipes and tanks used for natural gas? This system is already designed for large volumes of volatile gas. Most NG appliances could probably be modified easily to burn hydrogen instead.

Originally posted by Gifted
People keep complaining about a lack of a distribution system. Can't we use the pipes and tanks used for natural gas? This system is already designed for large volumes of volatile gas. Most NG appliances could probably be modified easily to burn hydrogen instead.
Natural gas is stored as a liquid at high pressures in tanks, at room temperature. Hydrogen cannot be stored so -- it needs deep cryogenic temperatures to be liquid at attainable pressures.

A tanker truck carrying a "load" of hydrogen gas at 3000 psi would not be very cost effective at all.

- Warren