Just wondering if you think based on all available knowledge (that you have) if companies are right in treating customers as important to their survival, yet the moment they are broke or have no way of relating to the companies objectives are seen as nothing. I hate places that pretend they care, when in fact they are only concerned with themselves. I think a good example of this is Office Max.

Office Max Policy

1. Sell 20 dollars worth of merchandise to anyone walking through the doors
2. Monitor anyone entering the store using their headsets and inform other workers of the person entering, then proceed to find them
3. Upsell, if they need paper suggest ink, if they need ink suggest paper, etc.
4. Sell insurance policies for Office Max

These are just some things they do, I had an interview there once and they had been telling me about all this, it's very disturbing to know someone will always, no matter what, try selling me 20 dollars worth of stuff. It sickens me to think they think this way, sick BSTD's!

Makes perfect sense in a capitalist system. A company that thrives by making money through retail would of course want to sell as much as possible. However, as a consumer, I'm annoyed by the persistance of some sales representatives. "Having trouble finding anything?"
"No, the big sign over the aisle clearly tells me there is 'paper' here. Thanks though."
"Oh, sure! No problem. If you have any questions, my name is Schmuck and I'll be over here."
"Thanks Schmuck, but I'm okay."
"Sure, sure! Oh, by the way, are you interested in this high quality paper with the glossy finish? It's our best product in stock."
"No, Schmuck, now fuck off."
"Okay, sure! Just remember, I'll be right over here."

It's either this attitude or the half-assed uncaring sales personality:
*silence*
"Hi, can you help me find something?"
"What is it?"
"Well, I was looking for some high quality paper..."
"There is a sign that says 'paper' over there, above the aisles."
"Oh-kay... thanks..."

I hate places that pretend they care, when in fact they are only concerned with themselves.

Well, that's exactly the way humans usually are, so it stands to reason that human-operated businesses will be the same way. What'd you expect ...love and kindness and compassion and tenderness and charity and...?

Baron Max

Yeah I guess I was :-( You mean those things don't exist anymore & cries....

Well, that's exactly the way humans usually are, so it stands to reason that human-operated businesses will be the same way. What'd you expect ...love and kindness and compassion and tenderness and charity and...?

Baron Max
Appeal to nature. Fallacy. Next!

Just wondering if you think based on all available knowledge (that you have) if companies are right in treating customers as important to their survival, yet the moment they are broke or have no way of relating to the companies objectives are seen as nothing. I hate places that pretend they care, when in fact they are only concerned with themselves.
Ever seen ads. They actually hire psychologists to help them manipulating you into buying. They also create your entire culture. That;s not the worse though. The worse is that they focus on children, because they are not well developed yet and they usually give in to peer pressure more then adults.So they simply manipulate our children through their ads.... :bugeye:

These are just some things they do, I had an interview there once and they had been telling me about all this, it's very disturbing to know someone will always, no matter what, try selling me 20 dollars worth of stuff. It sickens me to think they think this way, sick BSTD's! I couldn't agree more!

I think you and TruthSeeker should get together right away and form a company that does everything it can NOT to sell anything. It'll be HUGE I tell ya! Huge!

~Raithere

Hey! No straw mans here. :bugeye:

I didn't say they don't need to sell their merchandise. What I criticized was their advertising ethics- that's all that I did. It's a very valid critique, with plenty of factual evidence and logic.

Hey! No straw mans here. :bugeye:

I didn't say they don't need to sell their merchandise. What I criticized was their advertising ethics- that's all that I did. It's a very valid critique, with plenty of factual evidence and logic. What then are you objecting to? Doesn't it make sense to create your advertisements to appeal to those people who might buy your products? If someone comes into your store doesn't it make sense to show them things they might want to purchase?

~Raithere

No. They should give them away. In fact just put them in the bin, they're rubbish. We, the people, are tired of your shoddy crap. Today is International 'Buy Nothing' Day.

Buy Nothing Today.

No. They should give them away. In fact just put them in the bin, they're rubbish. We, the people, are tired of your shoddy crap. Today is International 'Buy Nothing' Day.

Buy Nothing Today.

Excellent. Stores are closed today in Finland because it is independence day. Should make it easier to buy nothing.

But then again, there is always the internet for shopping!

What I mean really is that most of what people do buy isn't even in their possession anymore. they most likely got rid of it long ago, thus things that people buy or desire are merely fantasy's that serve no purpose. I see the point that companies must sell, but I also see the point they should exist instead of pushing sales on people. They should be like that store that use to be around every corner, it didn't suggest what you should buy but merely was there when you needed it, like 711?

What I mean really is that most of what people do buy isn't even in their possession anymore. they most likely got rid of it long ago, thus things that people buy or desire are merely fantasy's that serve no purpose. I see the point that companies must sell, but I also see the point they should exist instead of pushing sales on people. They should be like that store that use to be around every corner, it didn't suggest what you should buy but merely was there when you needed it, like 711? You're joking, right? 7-Eleven spend $216 million on advertising last year (http://www.sej.co.jp/investor/irtool/ar2005/pdf/ar2005.pdf).
And if you've ever walked into the place they use all kinds of marketing gimmicks.

Or is it just salesmen you object to?

~Raithere

I think he just realized he is just meat.

What then are you objecting to? Doesn't it make sense to create your advertisements to appeal to those people who might buy your products? If someone comes into your store doesn't it make sense to show them things they might want to purchase?
I am objecting to their unethical advertising practices, such as manipulating children. I am also objecting to manipulating people's minds in order to create useless "needs" and further agravate the state of this world's environmental distress. :bugeye:

As productivity grows, the amount of the stuff being peddled on the market must grow much faster so all those freed hands were kept busy doing something, no matter how insane, useless and destructive that something is. On the other hand, "consumers" must be made to want that newly created something through brainwashing on the planetary, national and local scales. And brainwashing and agressive peddling are absolute necessities because if consumption will be kept at the current levels the magnificient economy will be flushed down the drain sooner or later. Consume more or perish, there is no other way.

That holds true for companies and the needs of consumers. People won't perish if they needlessly buy trivial things like bubble gum and breast implants, but they will need things like beef jerky and bottled water.

Just wondering if you think based on all available knowledge (that you have) if companies are right in treating customers as important to their survival, yet the moment they are broke or have no way of relating to the companies objectives are seen as nothing. I hate places that pretend they care, when in fact they are only concerned with themselves. I think a good example of this is Office Max.

Office Max Policy

1. Sell 20 dollars worth of merchandise to anyone walking through the doors
2. Monitor anyone entering the store using their headsets and inform other workers of the person entering, then proceed to find them
3. Upsell, if they need paper suggest ink, if they need ink suggest paper, etc.
4. Sell insurance policies for Office Max

These are just some things they do, I had an interview there once and they had been telling me about all this, it's very disturbing to know someone will always, no matter what, try selling me 20 dollars worth of stuff. It sickens me to think they think this way, sick BSTD's!


so don't shop there.

As productivity grows, the amount of the stuff being peddled on the market must grow much faster so all those freed hands were kept busy doing something, no matter how insane, useless and destructive that something is. On the other hand, "consumers" must be made to want that newly created something through brainwashing on the planetary, national and local scales. And brainwashing and agressive peddling are absolute necessities because if consumption will be kept at the current levels the magnificient economy will be flushed down the drain sooner or later. Consume more or perish, there is no other way.
That's ridiculous. This system is destroying our planet and our psyche! We are better off finding a new system that is not based on consumption!

That's ridiculous. This system is destroying our planet and our psyche! We are better off finding a new system that is not based on consumption!

Yeah, let's force people to not want things. Let's change human nature, re-wire our genetic code. Make us not want to improve our lot.

The reason some people hate capitalism and democracy is because those systems give people freedom. And some people just can't stand what other people do with their freedom. They want everyone to have the same ideals, and live just like they want them to, not how the people want to live. So they try to coerce and guilt people into their lifestyles. It's disgusting.

It reminds me of the first French revolution. The revolutionaries were convinced that if they won the right for every man to vote, that the peasants would vote the rich out of power. They had the first vote, and the rich won. The peasants didn't vote the way the revolutionaries wanted them to. So they had another revolution... eventually leading to the totalitarian state of Napoleon.

What kills me about liberals is that they love to throw around the term "fascist" as a way of shutting down arguments, but they are just as fascist as the fanatics to the right. Both sides want homogeneity of ideas, liberals just want those ideal-holders to come in an array of colors.

[QUOTE=swivel;1225500]Yeah, let's force people to not want things. Let's change human nature, re-wire our genetic code. Make us not want to improve our lot.
Au contre my dear, there are multibillion industries making people to want things which they don't really need (and don't want shortly after purchase). There are people whose job is stuffing the same thought again and again in people's head - "you are what you consume, you'll not be quite human/happy without this thing and that thing, your individuality is expressed by the things you buy, etc.". Ironically, the things you want to buy are determined not by you, so all the mass "individuality" in the world is shaped by a few thousands people. As a result, dull uniformity everywhere.

What freedom are you talking about? humanity is considered as moldable, easily programmable biomass without much intristic freedoms. You better read what kind of diabolical tools advertising is using to shape us. Freedom my ass. Even concept of what is freedom is stuffed in people's head by the system. 200 years ago, freedom was owning a farm and relative independence. Today freedom is working for a paycheck and boss and experiencing all degradations of the work place. Shopping one thing which make such a "freedom" more or less tolerable. When one shops he feels himself "free", he's no longer disposable wipe he's master of Wal-Mart.

The reason some people hate capitalism and democracy is because those systems give people freedom. It seems that you mix two things "freedom to choose out of 20 kinds of cereal" and freedom per se. Beside shoping selection, your freedoms are highly constricted that's unless you are willing to starve under bridge. Faceless market is as totalitarian and constrictive (besides selection of cereals) as J. Stalin.


And some people just can't stand what other people do with their freedom. I think it's clear that your freedom is not your freedom since the very concept of freedom didn't originate in your head but was implanted.

They want everyone to have the same ideals, and live just like they want them to, not how the people want to live. So they try to coerce and guilt people into their lifestyles. It's disgusting.
Yeah my dear, that what market economies usually do. Somebody else desides what are yor ideals and tastes should be (and actively shapes them). As a result - dull uniformity everywhere. Soviets had more diversity of culture, tastes, etc. than the free market dwellers despite limited consumer choices.

Both sides want homogeneity of ideas, liberals just want those ideal-holders to come in an array of colors. The only homogeneous thought I would propel is the thought - " how are you choices affect others, world, nature your children and grandchildren, why do you make those choices?" I guess I'm fascist too.

Yeah, let's force people to not want things. Let's change human nature, re-wire our genetic code. Make us not want to improve our lot.
OMG, read what was said. Most of the things we consume are CREATED needs. And stop the human nature bullshit, that's a bad fallacy that's always used when people don't have a better excuse. :bugeye:

The reason some people hate capitalism and democracy is because those systems give people freedom. And some people just can't stand what other people do with their freedom.
That's retarded at best. The capitalist system CREATES NEEDS. WHere is your freedom when you need more and more stuff! :bugeye:

Is a guy smoking down the street free?

They want everyone to have the same ideals, and live just like they want them to, not how the people want to live. So they try to coerce and guilt people into their lifestyles. It's disgusting.
Yes, that's exactly what corporations do... :rolleyes:

OMG, read what was said. Most of the things we consume are CREATED needs. And stop the human nature bullshit, that's a bad fallacy that's always used when people don't have a better excuse.

....
Did you learn a new term?
Dumbass.
Sorry you can't accept the way things work.

That's retarded at best. The capitalist system CREATES NEEDS. WHere is your freedom when you need more and more stuff!

People create need. If they didn't want it, they wouldn't buy it.
Or do people not have free will?

Yes, that's exactly what corporations do...

So it's all the corporations fault, because they force people to buy stuff. Right... LoL!

People create need. If they didn't want it, they wouldn't buy it.
Or do people not have free will?

Small correction: relatively few people create need. What you want and need can be easily programmed, after all you're a social animal not a fly. Free will depends on the environment, environment is shaped as to direct the free wills in the right direction. We live in the highly managed societies J.Stalin had no hopes to create.

Small correction: relatively few people create need. What you want and need can be easily programmed, after all you're a social animal not a fly. Free will depends on the environment, environment is shaped as to direct the free wills in the right direction. We live in the highly managed societies J.Stalin had no hopes to create.

Then tell me, what do I want?

Then tell me, what do I want?
I can tell you what you do NOT want - the things that are not on the market.

I can tell you what you do NOT want - the things that are not on the market.

I want a hovercar and one of those tricorder devices in Star Trek. Real ones.
A pet dinosaur would also be cool.

I want a hovercar and one of those tricorder devices in Star Trek. Real ones.
A pet dinosaur would also be cool.

There is a thin line between want and dream. I mean "want" as something "real" that you can actually get. I would call it active want. For some reason people tend to believe that market is there to serve their wants (which is true from time to time), but on the other hand it's much more convenient (and way more profitable because of the mass production) for the faceless market to shape the "want" of the crowd on grand scale. So you may think of your wants as yours, but actually they are not quite yours.

For example, I want to buy fresh local vegetables. Willing to pay more. But there are none, zilch. Where in the hell is market to satisfy this need? Market is here, it's just hooking up people on (convienient&super profitable) processed food. Have you compared numbers of ads for fresh vegetables with numbers of ads for coke or McD?

....
Did you learn a new term?
Dumbass.
Sorry you can't accept the way things work.
Ok... I just HAVE to give you and Baron vidoes, because it seems you guys are too lazy to read articles that goes against your narrow naive view of the world So here it is....



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http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_nk2_rk0FLw&mode=user&search=

Synopsis:
""In this powerful new video, Juliet Schor scrutinizes what she calls "the new consumerism"--a national phenomenon of upscale spending that is shaped and reinforced by a commercially-driven media system. She argues that "keeping up with the Joneses" is no longer enough for middle and upper-middle class Americans, many of whom become burdened with debilitating debt as they seek to emulate materialistic TV lifestyles.

Drawing on her academic research, Schor explains the cultural forces that cause Americans to work longer hours and spend more than they can afford in order to participate in a consumption competition with others. The video illustrates with numerous examples how more and more products are being used as social communicators to demonstrate material success. The Overspent American challenges the inevitability of the consumer lifestyle by proposing alternatives to the work and spend cycle that has so many Americans feeling trapped and unfulfilled. The video draws attention to--and ultimately raises serious questions about--the costs (both financial and societal) of relentlessly searching for happiness and identity through consumption. ... (more) ""


... AND...


<object width="425" height="350"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/yaMh8KGfkTM"></param><param name="wmode" value="transparent"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/yaMh8KGfkTM" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" wmode="transparent" width="425" height="350"></embed></object>
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yaMh8KGfkTM

Synopsis:
""While advertising is the visible component of the corporate system, perhaps even more important and pervasive is its invisible partner, the public relations industry. This video illuminates this hidden sphere of our culture and examines the way in which the management of �the public mind� has become central to how our democracy is controlled by political and economic elites. Toxic Sludge Is Good For You illustrates how much of what we think of as independent, unbiased news and information has its origins in the boardrooms of the public relations companies.

PR critics include PR Watch founder John Stauber, cultural scholars Mark Crispin Miller and Stuart Ewen. Toxic Sludge Is Good For You tracks the development of the PR industry from early efforts to win popular American support for World War I to the role of crisis management in controlling the damage to corporate image. The video analyzes the tools public relations professionals use to shift our perceptions including a look at the coordinated PR campaign to slip genetically engineered produce past public scrutiny.

Toxic Sludge Is Good For You urges viewers to question the experts and follow the money back to the public relations industry to challenge its hold on democracy. ""


People create need. If they didn't want it, they wouldn't buy it.
Or do people not have free will?
It's called "perception management"....

A little bit about perception management....

<object width="425" height="350"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/9eNs-CjxUu4"></param><param name="wmode" value="transparent"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/9eNs-CjxUu4" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" wmode="transparent" width="425" height="350"></embed></object>
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9eNs-CjxUu4&mode=related&search=

There are many companies that specialize on perception management...

A litttle bit about the this unethical business practice...
http://www.disinfo.com/archive/pages/dossier/id248/pg1/index.html

So it's all the corporations fault, because they force people to buy stuff. Right... LoL!
Get your stuff together. I'm not impressed by brainwashed people.

I really don't understand why embedding doesn't always work... :(

You always want more than you have.

Or maybe that's what the corporations want you to believe... :rolleyes:

[QUOTE]
Au contre my dear, there are multibillion industries making people to want things which they don't really need (and don't want shortly after purchase). There are people whose job is stuffing the same thought again and again in people's head - "you are what you consume, you'll not be quite human/happy without this thing and that thing, your individuality is expressed by the things you buy, etc.". Ironically, the things you want to buy are determined not by you, so all the mass "individuality" in the world is shaped by a few thousands people. As a result, dull uniformity everywhere.

What freedom are you talking about? humanity is considered as moldable, easily programmable biomass without much intristic freedoms. You better read what kind of diabolical tools advertising is using to shape us. Freedom my ass. Even concept of what is freedom is stuffed in people's head by the system. 200 years ago, freedom was owning a farm and relative independence. Today freedom is working for a paycheck and boss and experiencing all degradations of the work place. Shopping one thing which make such a "freedom" more or less tolerable. When one shops he feels himself "free", he's no longer disposable wipe he's master of Wal-Mart.

It seems that you mix two things "freedom to choose out of 20 kinds of cereal" and freedom per se. Beside shoping selection, your freedoms are highly constricted that's unless you are willing to starve under bridge. Faceless market is as totalitarian and constrictive (besides selection of cereals) as J. Stalin.


I think it's clear that your freedom is not your freedom since the very concept of freedom didn't originate in your head but was implanted.


Yeah my dear, that what market economies usually do. Somebody else desides what are yor ideals and tastes should be (and actively shapes them). As a result - dull uniformity everywhere. Soviets had more diversity of culture, tastes, etc. than the free market dwellers despite limited consumer choices.

The only homogeneous thought I would propel is the thought - " how are you choices affect others, world, nature your children and grandchildren, why do you make those choices?" I guess I'm fascist too.

Just because there are advertising exec's figuring out how to make you want THEIR product does not prove that the buyer is torn between buying NOTHING and wanting THEIR thing. You are making a huge mistake here.

The advertising exec is not competing against the consumer, even if some of them mistakenly think that they are. They are competing against OTHER advertising execs. People are as wealthy now as ever before. Poor people have an OBESITY problem, when just 4 generations ago you could identify the poor due to their gaunt faces and bony arms. Now we swim in food and wonder what to spend all the rest of this money on.

We are wealthy, wealthy, wealthy. Middle-class people own two homes, a few cars, a boat, a few TV's. Minority home-ownership is through the roof. People on welfare are not complaining that they are starving, they complain that they can't afford their cell-phone bills. And they might have a point, todays necessities are yesterdays utopian fantasies.

With all of this excess money, what do you suggest we do with it? Burn it? Give it to other people? And what should those other people do with it? You might say we should work less, but we already work half the hours that people did in the 19th century, and LEISURE TIME is a brand-new concept.

It is only natural that people would want to take this wealth, and all this new free-time, and DO SOMETHING FUN WITH IT. It isn't like this fun is coming at the expense of other things, it is coming from the time that we no longer spend trying to feed ourselves with a subsistence living. 5% of the population of the US feeds the other 95%.

You are in an unthinking, deluded fantasy that you have never sat down and fully questioned or reasoned out. And you should. Forget what your peers are saying, and what feels fun and rebellious to say and actually start from scratch. Read a few history books so you can see how much better the world is today than at any other time in recorded history. Read a few psychology books so you can grasp what the human condition is, what drives the animal that we are. Read a few economics books to understand that free trade is about UTILITY and not the place-holder of money. So you will get that all market interactions benefit BOTH SIDES.

I feel for you, and wish you luck.

THE CENTURY OF THE SELF
Monday 29 April - Thursday 2 May 2002 7pm-8pm


Adam Curtis' acclaimed series examines the rise of the all-consuming self against the backdrop of the Freud dynasty.

To many in both politics and business, the triumph of the self is the ultimate expression of democracy, where power has finally moved to the people. Certainly the people may feel they are in charge, but are they really? The Century of the Self tells the untold and sometimes controversial story of the growth of the mass-consumer society in Britain and the United States. How was the all-consuming self created, by whom, and in whose interests?

you can read it at http://www.bbc.co.uk/bbcfour/documentaries/features/century_of_the_self.shtml.

You can download radioadaptations in mp3 at
http://www.radio4all.net/index.php?op=result&action=series&series=Unwelcome%20Guests&nav=&
Programs 315-318. Each program compressed in 2 28Mb files. Excellent listening.

Just because there are advertising exec's figuring out how to make you want THEIR product does not prove that the buyer is torn between buying NOTHING and wanting THEIR thing. You are making a huge mistake here.

The advertising exec is not competing against the consumer, even if some of them mistakenly think that they are. They are competing against OTHER advertising execs.
Yeah you are so right. Execs compete with each other in front of a corporate guy who's deciding which exec will brainwash you better. You underestimated marketing industry (which is not only ads but also entire mass cult). Even people who say that their choices are not affected by the outside world could not be more wrong (including me).


People are as wealthy now as ever before.
You mean government statistics lies about stagnant wages and vanishing job security/health insurance in the past 25 years? Those damn liers. What about trade deficit, 3 minimum wage jobs nose to nose just to stay afloat, jobs be gone, average 2 paychecks away from being a homeless, zero savings, huge consumer (and federal) debts, dollar losing its value every day, etc., etc. I'm afraid the timing of a consumer feast is somewhat displaced.

Poor people have an OBESITY problem, when just 4 generations ago you could identify the poor due to their gaunt faces and bony arms.
Yeah, you are right again, but you've forgot to mention that nutritious food is really expensive these days even if one makes more than average salary. 5 servings of vegetables per day my arse, who can afford that (not to mention rubber taste that your money can buy)? But cheap frenkenstein food is affordable, mix there no neighborhoods to walk, chronic depressions, despair and you'll get obesity among poor and not so poor. BTW, if times are so good why 30% of population is on some kind of antidepressant? Sure those 30% have money to pay for drugs, so times must be really good.


Now we swim in food and wonder what to spend all the rest of this money on.
You call that stuff you swim in - food? Sorry man, you don't have a clue what real food should be and taste.

We are wealthy, wealthy, wealthy. Middle-class people own two homes, a few cars, a boat, a few TV's. Minority home-ownership is through the roof. People on welfare are not complaining that they are starving, they complain that they can't afford their cell-phone bills. And they might have a point, todays necessities are yesterdays utopian fantasies.
You owe it, if you paid it off (even then you don't actually own it, you rent it from government). But to become a tenant in Ucle Sam's estate you should pay bank off first. How many of those?


With all of this excess money, what do you suggest we do with it? Burn it? Give it to other people? And what should those other people do with it? You might say we should work less, but we already work half the hours that people did in the 19th century, and LEISURE TIME is a brand-new concept. What excess money you are talking about? USA and its consumers have basically no free money to call their own but debt.

Ok... I just HAVE to give you and Baron vidoes, because it seems you guys are too lazy to read articles that goes against your narrow naive view of the world So here it is....



<object width="425" height="350"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/_nk2_rk0FLw"></param><param name="wmode" value="transparent"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/_nk2_rk0FLw" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" wmode="transparent" width="425" height="350"></embed></object>
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_nk2_rk0FLw&mode=user&search=

Synopsis:
""In this powerful new video, Juliet Schor scrutinizes what she calls "the new consumerism"--a national phenomenon of upscale spending that is shaped and reinforced by a commercially-driven media system. She argues that "keeping up with the Joneses" is no longer enough for middle and upper-middle class Americans, many of whom become burdened with debilitating debt as they seek to emulate materialistic TV lifestyles.

Drawing on her academic research, Schor explains the cultural forces that cause Americans to work longer hours and spend more than they can afford in order to participate in a consumption competition with others. The video illustrates with numerous examples how more and more products are being used as social communicators to demonstrate material success. The Overspent American challenges the inevitability of the consumer lifestyle by proposing alternatives to the work and spend cycle that has so many Americans feeling trapped and unfulfilled. The video draws attention to--and ultimately raises serious questions about--the costs (both financial and societal) of relentlessly searching for happiness and identity through consumption. ... (more) ""


... AND...


<object width="425" height="350"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/yaMh8KGfkTM"></param><param name="wmode" value="transparent"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/yaMh8KGfkTM" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" wmode="transparent" width="425" height="350"></embed></object>
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yaMh8KGfkTM

Synopsis:
""While advertising is the visible component of the corporate system, perhaps even more important and pervasive is its invisible partner, the public relations industry. This video illuminates this hidden sphere of our culture and examines the way in which the management of ?the public mind? has become central to how our democracy is controlled by political and economic elites. Toxic Sludge Is Good For You illustrates how much of what we think of as independent, unbiased news and information has its origins in the boardrooms of the public relations companies.

PR critics include PR Watch founder John Stauber, cultural scholars Mark Crispin Miller and Stuart Ewen. Toxic Sludge Is Good For You tracks the development of the PR industry from early efforts to win popular American support for World War I to the role of crisis management in controlling the damage to corporate image. The video analyzes the tools public relations professionals use to shift our perceptions including a look at the coordinated PR campaign to slip genetically engineered produce past public scrutiny.

Toxic Sludge Is Good For You urges viewers to question the experts and follow the money back to the public relations industry to challenge its hold on democracy. ""



It's called "perception management"....

A little bit about perception management....

<object width="425" height="350"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/9eNs-CjxUu4"></param><param name="wmode" value="transparent"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/9eNs-CjxUu4" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" wmode="transparent" width="425" height="350"></embed></object>
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9eNs-CjxUu4&mode=related&search=

There are many companies that specialize on perception management...

A litttle bit about the this unethical business practice...
http://www.disinfo.com/archive/pages/dossier/id248/pg1/index.html


Get your stuff together. I'm not impressed by brainwashed people.

Blah blah blah.
You don't understand it enought to write a synposis?
Unfortunate.

There is a thin line between want and dream. I mean "want" as something "real" that you can actually get. I would call it active want. For some reason people tend to believe that market is there to serve their wants (which is true from time to time), but on the other hand it's much more convenient (and way more profitable because of the mass production) for the faceless market to shape the "want" of the crowd on grand scale. So you may think of your wants as yours, but actually they are not quite yours.

For example, I want to buy fresh local vegetables. Willing to pay more. But there are none, zilch. Where in the hell is market to satisfy this need? Market is here, it's just hooking up people on (convienient&super profitable) processed food. Have you compared numbers of ads for fresh vegetables with numbers of ads for coke or McD?

And I want lead pipes, handguns, and broken ribs.
The only market is the carck market.
Marginal returns there are shit.
Where the hell is the market to satisfy the need?

Yeah you are so right. Execs compete with each other in front of a corporate guy who's deciding which exec will brainwash you better. You underestimated marketing industry (which is not only ads but also entire mass cult). Even people who say that their choices are not affected by the outside world could not be more wrong (including me).



You mean government statistics lies about stagnant wages and vanishing job security/health insurance in the past 25 years? Those damn liers. What about trade deficit, 3 minimum wage jobs nose to nose just to stay afloat, jobs be gone, average 2 paychecks away from being a homeless, zero savings, huge consumer (and federal) debts, dollar losing its value every day, etc., etc. I'm afraid the timing of a consumer feast is somewhat displaced.


Yeah, you are right again, but you've forgot to mention that nutritious food is really expensive these days even if one makes more than average salary. 5 servings of vegetables per day my arse, who can afford that (not to mention rubber taste that your money can buy)? But cheap frenkenstein food is affordable, mix there no neighborhoods to walk, chronic depressions, despair and you'll get obesity among poor and not so poor. BTW, if times are so good why 30% of population is on some kind of antidepressant? Sure those 30% have money to pay for drugs, so times must be really good.



You call that stuff you swim in - food? Sorry man, you don't have a clue what real food should be and taste.


You owe it, if you paid it off (even then you don't actually own it, you rent it from government). But to become a tenant in Ucle Sam's estate you should pay bank off first. How many of those?


What excess money you are talking about? USA and its consumers have basically no free money to call their own but debt.

So basically you deny that people can make choices for themselves.
That's definitely the way to get people on your side!

Or maybe that's what the corporations want you to believe... :rolleyes:

What an easy attitude.
How convenient for you.

So basically you deny that people can make choices for themselves.
That's definitely the way to get people on your side!
That's impossible, a kid is watching something like 23000 TV ads before he'll hit sweet 16 (that's not counting other ways mass cult shapes him). Sure, we can pretend that nevertherless a kid can make his own choices. Yes, he can. A programmed processor can make his own choices too:) If you'll have time read/listen "century" of self" I've posted links to few messages above. I can't make a point accross better than that.

That's impossible, a kid is watching something like 23000 TV ads before he'll hit sweet 16 (that's not counting other ways mass cult shapes him). Sure, we can pretend that nevertherless a kid can make his own choices. Yes, he can. A programmed processor can make his own choices too:) If you'll have time read/listen "century" of self" I've posted links to few messages above. I can't make a point accross better than that.

Well.
I've never had that problem.
It still seems a problem of self determination.
How am I responsible for ignorance?

Only fools spend.
Isn't that right?
A fool and his money....
Why should it matter to me?

Tell me.
It's not like corporations are here to save what I care about.
Even without them, fools would still take what I derive pleasure from.
At least this way I can still turn a buck.

Here's what I got:
http://www.katt.com/images/uploads/coors%20light%203.gif

Here's what I want:
http://www.angelfire.com/wi/beercans/images10/fc524.gif

What an easy attitude.
How convenient for you.
On the contrary, it's very convenient FOR YOU! All you need to do is to accept it!How easy and convenient is that? :rolleyes:

It's also very convenient to dismiss an entire post full of evidence through a dumbass excuse. :rolleyes: