Why is it that conservative men always seem to put 100% of the blame for unwanted pregnacies on women? After reading comments from conservative men (at other websites) such as "a woman has the right not to have sex," " a woman has the right to keep her pants on," and "women should be virgins until they are ready to take responsibility for their actions," I wonder where the men fit into this. Aren't they at least 50% responsible? Even moreso if they are the ones pressuring women into sex?

Yup.

Conservative men are really good at telling others to take responsibility, but not so good at taking responsibility themselves.

Originally posted by Northwind
Conservative men are really good at telling others to take responsibility, but not so good at taking responsibility themselves.

I agree.

Aren't they at least 50% responsible? Even moreso if they are the ones pressuring women into sex?

No. If a woman can excersize full dominion over her body, she is 100% responsible for what happens to it. *Excluding rape, of course*

Originally posted by Xev
No. If a woman can excersize full dominion over her body, she is 100% responsible for what happens to it. *Excluding rape, of course*

I disagree. Men are at least 50% responsible for the pregnancies they help create. And women have the right to end pregnacies that they do not wish to continue. If this right is removed our society will crumble.

well you have to hand it to women who have sex... they're brave. They do it even though they can't run away from the pregnancy like thier lovers can.

I disagree. Men are at least 50% responsible for the pregnancies they help create. And women have the right to end pregnacies that they do not wish to continue. If this right is removed our society will crumble.

I'll submit that there is a social responsibility, but not an ethical one. If you claim there is an ethical one, then the father has a 50% interest in whether the woman aborts.

It takes two to tango. Men are 50% responsible for any pregnancy.

A father has an ethical right to participate in the decision as to whether a pregnancy is to be terminated or not. In my opinion, the extent of that right should depend on the father's willingness to care for any child which results. The right should be at most a 50% say in any decision, however, which always leaves the woman in control of her own body. Ethically, though, the man's opinion does not count for nothing, even if effectively he cannot force things to go his own way (which is as it should be).

What cowards are these that can't comprehend that consequences bely action. Cowards and fools I say...those who can't grasp their own futures as it dangles inches from their fingertips.

Personally, I find the phrase "50% responsible" rather silly.... Aren't we 100% accountable for our own actions and hence the consequences of our actions on our bodies? Even more absurd is the thought that a man/woman is more than "50 % responsible" for the consequence of pregnancy if he/she has "pressured" their partner into intercourse... Pressured???? Excuse me???? Why is victimization so popular?? Beats the hell out of me. I was always taught that the power to decide what happens to my body is completely mine. In this world, you must protect yourself and stop fucking expecting someone else to take "50 % of the responsibility"

You have resources....if you're going to fuck don't be stupid, and if think you "can't help" acting stupidly because you are easily "pressured" , then I encourage you to buy a fabulous dildo and get off your urges in a way that won't fuck over the rest of your life, or some one else's. Maybe even complete celibacy is an option you should deeply consider until you pull your head out of your ass.

Think boys n girls.....THINK.

much respect

Jaymie

Originally posted by James R
A father has an ethical right to participate in the decision as to whether a pregnancy is to be terminated or not. ... The right should be at most a 50% say in any decision, however, which always leaves the woman in control of her own body.

Doesn’t it leave her in 50% control? I think the father should not have this right, for the practical reason that the father is indeterminate at that stage of the pregnancy. The father may be one of several men of unknown identity.

why james?

i agree with xev

if a woman can abort whenever she wants then suffer its her problem

if they change the laws so a court can STOP an abortian at the request of the father then you should also have a legal responcability to care for a child if the mother DOESNT abort

but while you try and force fathers to pay without giving them the right to chose its hipocritical

xev question for you
if we change the laws so men HAVE to pay for a child and that the mother cant abort without the aproval of the courts (so the father has a say too) does that mean if a father blocks a mother aborting in favor of rasing it himself that the women has no responcability for it after birth?

If it was entirely the man's 'fault" (ie. rape), the man is 100% responsible and should be made to pay. The woman is free to do whatever the hell she wants.

If is was entirely the woman's fault (ie. rape, for example screwing some dead drunk guy at a party), the woman is 100% responsible and should be made to pay. The man should be free to decide exactly what happens with the resulting pregnancy.

If it was a joint decision to shag, they are equally responsible for the outcome.

please... screaming is not a good way to debate.

people look up at the section your in please

dont infect my section with religiouse garbage please

It's a fair enough request. But that's the problem with this topic. The only support conservative men have for their persecution of women is the Bible. An unfortunate condition for the discussion ....

thanx,
Tiassa :cool:

i think abortions should be illegal except in cases of rape and if the mothers life is at risk

other than that it should be what should happen AFTER the child is born

there as plenty of couples who are infertile, gay couples who would love to adopt

BOTH sides should be finatully responcable for it and the father should be able to stop an abortion if he wants to keep the child

i dont care if the state has to pay to look after the mother till she gives birth either

um dose that cover a non religiouse anti abortion stance?

jullette all i can add to you is i wish your mother had aborted YOU

Asguard posted:
"jullette all i can add to you is i wish your mother had aborted YOU"

My mother? What has she to do with this? She had sex because she wanted to. Having me was not something she intended to do, so why should I be indebted to her? The Eskimos leave their parents out on the tundra when they can no longer support themselves, many other dead cultures consider it acceptable to kill parents. I owe my parents nothing.

This thread was meant to address conservative men and their attitudes toward abortion and, more precisely, women. The double standard conservative men can also be addressed, but let's stay on the primary purpose of this thread.

Im a consertive man (cough cough) I mean teenager,and my attitude on abortion is that it should be illegal.I see no extrodanary diffrence between a fetus and a new born or toddler.As to my views on women,and their responsibility or whatever you said,I belive it takes two people to make a baby and it should be up to the same two people to decide what to do with the child.Now I can think of two exceptions two this I think maybe it MIGHT be ok for a woman to have an abortion if she has been raped,ill have to think about that some more.The second reason is if a doctor has two choose between the mother or the baby,but that is a diffrent kind of abortion.

Originally posted by snow
Im a consertive man (cough cough) I mean teenager,and my attitude on abortion is that it should be illegal.I see no extrodanary diffrence between a fetus and a new born or toddler.As to my views on women,and their responsibility or whatever you said,I belive it takes two people to make a baby and it should be up to the same two people to decide what to do with the child.Now I can think of two exceptions two this I think maybe it MIGHT be ok for a woman to have an abortion if she has been raped,ill have to think about that some more.The second reason is if a doctor has two choose between the mother or the baby,but that is a diffrent kind of abortion.

Yeah, yeah... the same old discussion that pertains to 1% of all abortions. The other 99% are caused by the child just being unwanted. I don't "like" abortion, but it must remain illegal.

What are your opinions on conservative men's attitude towards abortioin and women. I think that conservatives want all women to be "barefoot and pregnant." But they claim that's not what they are for. :rolleyes: I'm slightly confused about your statements.

First, you say abortion should be illegal. Then you say that the mother and father should "decide what to do with it." ???

When she told me she thought she was pregnant, I looked at her in disbelief. Not because she was pregnant, but because she was telling me in the middle of a fight after we had just gotten plowed on Guinness and Tullamore Dew.

I asked her to go to the doctor to find out.

Come Monday morning, she collapsed at work. Inasmuch as I thought I might be getting a quick and cheap route out of fatherhood, the situation was still disturbing.

But, at the hospital, they told her she definitely was pregnant. She enrolled in their prenatal program on the spot.

Point being: I was left out of the decision to keep or abort the child.

As much as it bugged me ... This is the way it should be.

That she lied about contraception is another story entirely. But you don't really think I'm going to leave my offspring to such sinister devices, do you?

The sad thing is, that after all of the politics and pride, because of some of state law, while I could intervene in an adoption (not an abortion, though) I am not presently the legal father of my own child.

I love the law as pertains to reproduction. It's so screwed up. And largely because of conservative men who demonstrably don't understand the issues involved.

Remember--you need a license to have a pet, and any two twits can have children.

Men--if you are considering reproducing, make sure her divorce is finalized. Otherwise you get to roll on the floor in the hospital in front of a social worker laughing like Jesus just tripped on someone's liver and landed on his holy ass. I have no idea who's responsible for this ridiculous law.

thanx,
Tiassa :cool:

Tiassa:

The law is even more ridiculous than you describe. In some states, a divorced father is required to continue paying child support even if a DNA test proves he is not the biological father of the child. Even if he can prove who the father actually is. I guess it's supposed to be "in the best interest of the child", but it seems like there should be a better solution.

Did you have a DNA test done in your case?

What are your opinions on conservative men's attitude towards abortioin and women. I think that conservatives want all women to be "barefoot and pregnant." But they claim that's not what they are for. :rolleyes: I'm slightly confused about your statements.

hmmn I believe that while the pregency does take two people only the mother can actually have the abortion the male has no say whatsoever unless the woman asks him and still she dosent have to take his advice.I wouldent treat any woman who's had an abortion any diffrent from a woman who hadent but to myself i'd have less respect for her.


First, you say abortion should be illegal. Then you say that the mother and father should "decide what to do with it." ??? [/B][/QUOTE]

Yes I think abortion should be illegal but as of right now it isnt ,sorry for the confusion but what I meant was since right now abortion is legal both parents should have a say in whats going to happen

Did you have a DNA test done in your case?Yes and no. The mother and I both had our chromosomes scanned for various possible birth defects and diseases (cystic fibrosis, Down's syndrome, &c.) and they've done the same for Emma Grace to make sure there's nothing they've missed, but we've never put the three together because, as the social worker advised, it doesn't matter. Overwhelming physical evidence that this is my daughter changes nothing in the eyes of the law until the husband in absentia (MIA for five years and counting) is located and signs a piece of paper waiving his right to call himself a father to this child. And yes--even though they've been separated for years before Emma Grace arrived, he is still liable for child support. Once we find him, getting his hancock on the waiver shouldn't be a problem.

But, yes, we know this is my offspring.

thanx,
Tiassa :cool:

You know, I think the "spirit of the law" is usually lost to the letter. It's amazing to me Tiassa, that you are in the situation you're in. I'm lucky the chick I knocked up hadn't been married, or I'd likely find myself is a similar situation. I really dug her (and still do) but when I found out she was preggers.. I really kind of wanted here to do the bad deed... cuz I was NOT into the idea of chillens. Then she passed some badness if you follow and I though I too had found the quick road to a responsibility free life. Turned out.. not.

It was interesting though that when she almost accidentally lost the baby, I actually started thinking "no fucking way I can ask her to abort this punkin". I personally think abortion is wrong, but should be a matter of choice for the chicka. If the girl is lucky, she'll recieve wise council and be able to make the appropriate decision for herself. I personally think adoption is a better route especially considering all the parents who can't do it but want children... however... I don't have that female thing where you connect with the child and don't wish grown women (whom society already has quite an investment in) to die in the alleys with shoddy doctors performing shoddy procedures... or however you say that where it sounds better than what I just said.

Regardless... I can't believe how amazing my girls are and I'm SO freakin glad they were not aborted. Precious Precious punkins... so much more so than I could have possibly conceived before looking into their amazing little eyes... *hugs his girls*

Eh, I was really only writing to say, wow, I can sort of relate from a "near miss" kind of perspective... I'm sorry to hear of the crappy crap. Oh.. wait, I had a point. That was: Why can't a judge intepret the law on a case per case basis such that it makes sense for that case? I'm sure sometimes there is no lattitude such that they might be able to do so, but other times it seems that the cases become mechanical to the judges, and the result given a particular scenario.. preordaned... THAT is fucking sad. Short sighted laws lead to a pissed off populous.

Originally posted by John Mace
In some states, a divorced father is required to continue paying child support even if a DNA test proves he is not the biological father of the child. Even if he can prove who the father actually is. I guess it's supposed to be "in the best interest of the child", but it seems like there should be a better solution.

A man accepts joint financial responsibility with his spouse when he gets married. A husband is responsible to his wife’s children until maturity unless another man takes over that responsibility. The non-biological father cannot prove who the real father is without the consent of the real father, who otherwise will not be forced by a judge to submit to a paternity test when the non-biological father has been called “Dad” for years. As it should be I think.