http://www.charlierose.com/guests/condoleezza-rice

She did shock Rose when she pointed out that there are no intentions to leave Iraq at all.

Such a honesty can be dangerous to one's political standing....

Such a honesty can be dangerous to one's political standing....
Not from anyone who agrees with her assessment.

It's a very big world out here -- far bigger than the small one you and your friends are offering we who possess very little faith in your over-riding authority to decide what's right for us all.

Since we're out here, in the bigger world, and you and your friends are not, what you and your friends believe to be real actually isn't all that important, in the scheme of things, to those outside your tight-knit little group here.

All sound and fury, signifying ... what was that, again?

http://www.charlierose.com/guests/condoleezza-rice

She did shock Rose when she pointed out that there are no intentions to leave Iraq at all.

Well denying it is simply pointless now.

She did shock Rose when she pointed out that there are no intentions to leave Iraq at all.

Taken out of context, no doubt.

Baron Max

Or perhaps they will stay forever as Iraqs police force.

I like Condie.

~String

Dr. Rice is particularly unfortunate. I've seen one of the brighter, more tempered political minds in my circle somewhat heartbroken by her role in these affairs. Simply put, he accepted the Bush selection in 2000 because that's the way it goes, and he defended Condi Rice for the first part of the term in large part because of her Stanford University credentials (the common link between them). As time went by, however, my friend could not deny the breadth and diversity of Bush-administration disasters. He, like me, did not really think things could get as bad as Bush has gotten, and he certainly did not expect the people in that administration he respected--e.g. Colin Powell and Condi Rice--to fall so low. Powell redeemed himself, but Rice has shown herself irredeemable (except, perhaps, before God, if one is to believe in such things).

Anybody could have looked at the "Bush Doctrine" back when it earned that name and realized that we were getting into a perpetual war. Many people, in fact, did. Of course, they were derided as "anti-American", paranoid, reactionary, and so on.

Strangely, one person who did see the problem with that particular national security strategy was Bill Clinton, who apparently rejected the plan years earlier as barbaric.

Has anyone noticed Ms Rice successfully handling any kind of difficult political task, so far in her tenure as Cabinet Minister ?

An articulate sycophant, and a loyal minion, and a projector of image, has only so much value. For example, we had a Secretary who went shoe shopping during Katrina, when the entire administration was in full fuckup mode and millions of people needed someone to do something right at the federal level. There wasn't a competent voice to be found in the higher executive offices of the US Federal Government then, and her office was no exception.

...we had a Secretary who went shoe shopping during Katrina...

Yeah, because THAT is a factor.

Guess what, during the Kobar Towers bombing, Clinton held up the traffic at Cleveland Hopkins Airport in order to get a haircut. Big deal.

Look-- I get it, you guys think that Condi is horrific-- THAT is totally valid, but to state shit like, "she went shoe shopping" negates the obvious: EVERYBODY in Washington goes about their busy lives no matter WHAT is going on, on Earth. It happened in the Clinton administration, and is happening during the Bush admin.

You wanna' talk about how shitty Bush and Condi are, do your best. But to fool yourself into thinking that her shoe shopping escapades are anything different that what Albright did when she did an interview on the mall about her broche and scarf choices, is nothing but ridiculous.

~String

Yep, the three year olds go tattling to Mommy, Condi is eating the cookies, she is bad, but as mommy looks at them, they have cookie crumbs dusted all over their face and down their shirts, and tells them the cookies are for every one. Yes if your a liberal you can have a life outside of Politics, and it shouldn't be touched, even if it is having oral sex with a intern in the oval office, But if your a Conservative, and go shoe shopping, Bad Condi, your not attending to your job, you need to go, no personnel life for you.

But if your a Conservative, and go shoe shopping, Bad Condi, your not attending to your job, you need to go, no personnel life for you.
- - -
Look-- I get it, you guys think that Condi is horrific-- THAT is totally valid, but to state shit like, "she went shoe shopping" negates the obvious: EVERYBODY in Washington goes about their busy lives no matter WHAT is going on, on Earth.
Guys, the Secretary of State browisng the shoe aisles in preparation for a night out, and not late at night or on a weekend or on call near the office either, exactly when the shit was hiitting the fan in New Orleans and Federal agencies under her supervision were coming unglued, is what we are talking about here. It was during a serious malfunction of government, in response to a much bigger disaster than the Khobar Tower bombings (which were much more competently handled, btw), and the competent folks were putting cots in their offices. We're not talking about having a personal life when there's nothing immediate to do on your off hours. We're talking about clueless and careless and worthless in times of trouble.

And of course it was just one, passing, easily grasped and googled example.

Instead of righty-whining, try coming up with something that Condi has accomplished in Federal office. Anything.

Meanwhile, her accomplishments in private sectors are not as hard to trace - and Chevron is paying tens of millions in fines to adjudicate a couple of them:

http://www.nytimes.com/2007/05/08/business/08chevron.html?_r=1&oref=slogin

By imposing surcharges on the sale of crude oil, the Iraqi regime skimmed about $228 million from its oil exports.

A report released in 2004 by an investigator at the Central Intelligence Agency listed five American companies that bought oil through the program: the Coastal Corporation, a subsidiary of El Paso; Chevron; Texaco; BayOil, and Mobil, now part of Exxon Mobil. The companies have denied any wrongdoing and said they were cooperating with the investigations.
- - -
According to the Volcker report, surcharges on Iraqi oil exports were introduced in August 2000 by the Iraqi state oil company, the State Oil Marketing Organization. At the time, Condoleezza Rice, now secretary of state, was a member of Chevron’s board and led its public policy committee, which oversaw areas of potential political concerns for the company.

I like Condi. What is there not to like about a person who was named after an oiltanker?

P.S.: String, I seriously OVERESTIMATED you. Who the fuck cares about the Khobar towers???

P.S.: String, I seriously OVERESTIMATED you. Who the fuck cares about the Khobar towers???

Glad I could disappoint.

I wasn't defending Bush. I wasn't trying to say tha Khobar was a biger deal than Katrina, or say that Clinton was some horrible person for holding up the airport, as conservatives were trying to posit (which, to me is nonsense). But, Syzygys-- I wouldn't expect someone of YOUR limited intellectual capacity to understand that, since my point was obvious enough to read.

The point is this: I am not a fan of George Bush, or the foibles that seem to be the overriding charactersitc of his administration, but how about keeping the debate real? The best you can do is try to twist shoe shopping into an issue with internal management. (BTW-- just in case you don't understand how the US government works, the Sec. of State doesn't deal with affairs INTERNAL to the United States-- so what SHOULD she have been doing during Katrina?)

Could Katrina have been handled better by the Bush Admin? Absolutely. Does Condi's shoe shopping IN ANY WAY impact ANYTHING of substance? No.

~String

excuse moi, but I never brought up Katrina! :) You came with a non sequitur...

I actually congratulated Condi for her modesty.

Now let's get back to our scheduled programming, with somebody more worthy to debate...

Does Condi's shoe shopping IN ANY WAY impact ANYTHING of substance? No. It illustrates the context in which we are supposed to accept assertions of her competence and diligence.

The evidence does not point that way. She appears to be, as almost every other W appointee has proven to be, incapable or indifferent or actually oppositional in her official duties.

And it's easy to Google. If instead one chooses the embarrassing results of recent trips to the ME, the sycophantic and loyalist reiteration of domestic Republican talking points when discussing US foreign policy initiatives, the apparent uselessness of her input as National Security Advisor during the setup of the post-Clinton Federal anti-terrorism response both before and after 9/11 (all the gains of the Clinton administration frittered away within months, then either a panic response or a coldblooded power grab after the attack), the Googling gets complicated and posts get too long.