This is a weird thing to think about, but i think about it a lot. How would the United States citizens react to belonging to a communist government. I, myself, am in favor of communism so that is why i think about it, you on the other hand might be some patriotic bastard, but it doesn't matter i would still enjoy to hear anybody's comments of the subject and feel free to email me

-Kyle(Yo Girlfriend still love me)

In a discussion called Considerations on Capitalism, in the Ethics forum, I brought up a comparison of individualist objections to Communism: e.g.--state control of medical decisions, educational decisions, financial decisions, &c. And then I pointed out that we accept these controls if they come from our employer, who has no obligations to anything but the bottom line. It seems we'll accept Communist ideas, as well as their detriments, as long as we call it something else. Thus, I submit the answer:

Americans would reject Communism as long as it was called Communism. Dress it up a little bit, and they call it free enterprise.

The only real difference is who owns what; after you settle the state/institution/individual question, the only real question is how to maximize the labor potential, and therefore profitable contribution, of the individuals who serve the economic combine.

thanx,
Tiassa :cool:

The communist system is a pretty shitty one, the only way I can see it working is if the country was completely isolationist, including no trade with other countries. First and formost the communist system without a profit margin cannot compete, economically with captialism.

Plus there's the whole human rights and freedoms issue.

So shitty that for over seventy years the capitalist countries have
shit in their pants and done everything they could to see that it
failed.

Matter of fact, we're still doing it with Cuba! Do you really think
Cuba, particularly now that the 'Cold War' is over, is any sort of
a threat? And if not, why is the embargo still being enforced?

How would the United States citizens react to belonging to a communist government.


EXACTLY THE WAY THE MAINSTREAM MEDIA TELLS THEM THEY SHOULD ACT.

The communist system is a pretty shitty one, the only way I can see it working is if the country was completely isolationist, including no trade with other countries. First and formost the communist system without a profit margin cannot compete, economically with captialism.

Plus there's the whole human rights and freedoms issue.


/me points to China and Cuba.

Your right in a sense, if the world was communist then the communist system would work, but while the rich get richer and the poor get screwed over and out there is no win win situation.

Quote:

Plus there's the whole human rights and freedoms issue.
______________________________________________






I think you are talking about the countries that use dictatorship instead of communism, but call themselves communist. Like China. In Marxist communism there is a ruler but only for a while until the country gets going then there is no government.


Thanks everyone that replied

The problem should never have been with a methodology and this has been what was put forwards. I know that through politics Communism was put forwards as something to hate and fear, and to limit the blame for things against a politician or government.
(a diversionary tactic)

Perhaps the real people that were "feared" wasn't the populous of such countries run by Communism, but just the "ruler", their premiere.

This has meant that alot of racial tension was spawn from both sides by the politicians, and while this was being done one countries people would overlook any degredation, while the other would lessen on their "free-thoughts".

At the end of the day, mankind comes from the same roots, so we shouldn't be hating a country that has a different way of life, or allow propaganda of any kind motivate us into becoming a linch mob.

I can see that perhaps a state run country might have problems with secret police, and people disappearing without people asking where or why because of fear for the state, but a state run health service, or school service shouldn't be a problem. If only if you looked at the humanitarian grounds, the right to health and the right to education.

These sort of values shouldn't be polluted with "The need for greed", namely not being able to get treatment or an education because you can't afford it. Afterall you can "work" if your well and are trained.

Also the State running of certain companies would mean that benefits, security, safety and many other issues can be addressed, But this doesn't mean that the politicians that are voted into power should be the ones "running state companies".

Originally posted by Yo_girlfriend_still_love_me
Quote: In Marxist communism...

I think you are talking about Socialism. I believe this system was to be effective when society becomes completely industrialized, and will only work under those conditions. This would explain why it hasn't worked to this point. I also believe this would be the intention of a one world government taking control, though the NWO idea is pretty frightening indeed. Compared to our recent history, the idea of an NWO reeks of fascism. It would be a very difficult transition, one that would likely destroy us all. The future is a blank slate, and it's certain that change will come of it. The question I ask myself is, if the world integrates a system to govern all nations, which style of government would this be?
For quite some time, I've followed 'conspiracy theories' from a distance. Though they hold very little weight in how I conduct my daily life, you can see many of the past theories coming to fruition daily. It's a frightening idea that what we've built in this society may not be for the best in shaping the diplomacy of the future. I guess I bought into it all, because I'd really like capitalism to work. I'd like to have the comfort of the bigger house, the nicer car, the freedom of having a savings to be able to vacation at will. Then I realize my own greed when I see homeless people, prostitutes, drug addicts, etc. All in some way victims of an unbalanced system of greed and mismanagement of good will. The buddhamind will not let me look down on these people. No matter where our future is headed, our best attempt will have to include a compassion for humanity, a unity and brotherhood of all.
This is not what comes to mind when I consider the effects of a NWO. But in a futuristic industrialzed society, a radical change will be paramount to our common prosperity.
In this future, I would not object to Socialism, in fact I'm losing focus of what it is I object to today...

Marxist Theory is different from straight up Socialism yes some of Karl Marx's ideas where derived from what is now known as socialism but they are two different things.

I find Communism is another utopia that, in reality, does not work. Communism is a system that works against human nature - looking at Communist russia this is very clear.

Communism in Russia was established for the 'benefit of the proletariat' by Lenin & the Bolsheviks, supposably for their own good. Notice that within a year of their assumption of power, a secret police (the Checka) had been created on Lenins orders, and all other political parties were systematically eliminated to assist Lenins rise to power. Even early Russia, idolized by many as a communist utopia, was a corrupted tyranny ruled by Lenin.

As a side not, communism is portrayed to be the antithesis of democracy. Ideally, this is not the case, and the political theories are compatible.

>>In Marxist communism there is a ruler but only for a while until
>>the country gets going then there is no government.

Problem is that once a ruling group get a hold of power, it is hard to pursuade them to give it up. Has government in china weakened any in the past 50 year? Not that I've noticed.

Also, communism is the sacrifice of individual prosperity/freedom to the benefit of the whole. Don't know about you, but I relish MY freedom.

"From each according to his abilities,
to each according to his needs!"

What could be more Utopian?

Hummm ... A kabutz?

I think the problem most USA people have with communism is they don't know what it is. They were told that the USSR was communist, and that the USSR was the bad guy after WW2, and they simply assumed that oppressive and crumbling state was communism. Well, it's not. I believe Marx used as his model of communist society the bushmen of the Kalahari. A society in which there is no value placed on material goods other than when they may be required for use by anyone at any time. Decisions about the community were made by the whole society. The USSR was actualy Socialist: Union of Soviet Socialist Republics, or whatever. The state was in control of the public assets, the state made the decisions. In a communist society, the people own the public assets, and the people make the decisions. McCarthy and his ilk spread the idea that democracy and communism were at opposite ends of an idealogical spectrum, but that was always crap. Democracy would work best in a communist state. If we all had voting terminals in our homes for example, and the public assets were owned by the people, we would have a democracy in which all major decisions were made by the people for the people.

Anyway, the entire idea that communism is EVIL (tm) was brought about by McCarthy-ist BS propaganda and has nothing at all to do with what communism really is. Communism is the most fair system for the people. If all citizens have an equal vote, then the state's progress is entirely up to the people.

(You can't point to the USSR and say "The problem is, it isn't fair because a few people get greedy and get all the power", because as I said the USSR was socialist and not communist.)

Western culture (Caucasians) and Communism do not mix, period. Leave it to the Orientals. Same for Moslem religion too. There are many things white folks can not do...do not fight it...it is the nature of man... :D

What Oriental state has ever managed to get communism working? If you'r thinking China, they're Socialist too.

Thank you SovietSputnik and Adam for telling us shit that we already know. I know that there has never actually been a "communist" government. The only way that they could have been a communist government was if after they siezed the land, which they did, they were suppose to redistribute it to the public, which they did not. Thank you for the replys anyway.

Originally posted by Adam
What Oriental state has ever managed to get communism working? If you'r thinking China, they're Socialist too.

Does that mean, true Communism, like true Christians - are hard to find - or are they one and the same? :confused:

Here are some links you guys might want to check out:

http://www.newyouth.com
http://www.marxist.com
http://www.trotsky.net
http://www.socialistappeal.org
http://www.socialist.net
http://www.marxists.org
http://www.eserver.org/marx/
http://ccparty.4mg.com
http://www.1917.com (Russian)
http://www.militante.org (Spanish)

IRC Server: irc://irc.newyouth.com:6667 or go to http://enap.host.sk/chat.html

Here's a great document by Leon Trotsky:

http://www.newyouth.com/archives/classics/trotsky/if_america_should_go_communist.html

Enjoy :)

Could not access most of the URL's posted, and one of those is under construction.

Any idea as to what's going on?

you had to put 'www.' in front of the URL.

Hey communism in America what a great idea! We can all walk around with no shoes and make bombs for a living and praise Castro. Not to mention that communism means that were all athiest, screw Jesus who needs him? Communism will never happen in the USA and if we were communism at least we wouldnt have to worry about anybody bombing us because we would already be a third world country. (this is all sarcasim for you commies who cant comprehend it)

You know, just so that Microsoft products become state property, those states that are holding out on dropping the law suit against Microsoft may just declare, they are communists....:D

(this is all sarcasim for you commies who cant comprehend it)Thanks for the reminder, but I think everybody, not just the Communists, already knows that the one thing you should never do is accept a Capitalist at face value. ;)

thanx,
Tiassa :cool:

Hey all. I am writing a term paper on how Communism as a whole has affected the United Stated from 1900 to present time period now. Any links or info would be very helpfull. Thank you for your time. :)

the majority of you are all saying that communism doesn't work.
look at your own government today and tell me one thing that they're doing right. communism is the ONLY remedy to all of our economical and social problems. i don't care about cuba, china, or north korea. their problem is, they don't have their domestic policies set correctly. that's the only problem communism had faced throughout history, nothing was applied correctly. what has capitalism actually done for you? it's not a democracy. eg: who's the current sec. of army? Tom White, also, the former vice president of enron. you see what they want you to see, you hear what they want you to hear, you think what they want you to think. see, everything is run by the rich. they don't represent us, and they're the ones responsible for our economic downfalls, then why should we let them do whatever they want?
Represent the working class! [ http://www.newyouth.com ]

Not that communism is evil its a political system like any other but the fact that I know if I work harder I will get nothing more than the man on the side of me slacking would eventually cause me to slack also its human nature. What would be the point if there is no incentive. I know work for the betterment of society and lets work together and make the state the best it can be. Ya Ya whatever people need incentive on a personal level reason to strive to improve, and even though intensions might be in the right place the betterment of society isnt enough.

Originally posted by The Metatron
Not that communism is evil its a political system like any other but the fact that I know if I work harder I will get nothing more than the man on the side of me slacking would eventually cause me to slack also its human nature. What would be the point if there is no incentive. ...

True to a point. That is why USSR blew up. People there were Caucasians who grew from a barbaric civilization with get something for nothing blood. On the otherhand Chinese consider the growth of their society is the incentive. The easterners believe Communisim is a noble philosophy where you provide service according to your ability but receive your benefits as per your needs. It is similar to some religious philosophy. But humans have a tendency to mess things up.....

Just trying to be helpfu: do you guys know about the ten planks thing? it's a really interesting article of communism in the U.S.. To me, its very biased, and i dont agree with a lot of it, but still interesting. look it up in google: ten planks.

I think that the problem with many modern attempts at communism is that they began with starving countries with no infrastructure. It's not all that surprising that they came up with more of the same.

So who becomes a doctor and who cleans out the sewage? That problem never bothered me much. You've got to do something with your life. Would you rather go to sit around on your butt and get so bored you kill yourself, or would you rather go to school and learn how to perform operations, or would you rather build up some muscles digging ditches. I know I'd rather be in school- I like being in an intellectual atmosphere and digging ditches doesn't seem very cool. I know other people are sick of classrooms and would like to hang out with their friends doing simple manual labor. Remember that college wouldn't cost money and it wouldn't leave you in poverty for the duration, so there would be a lot fewer drawbacks to getting an education. I think surprisingly few people would sit on their butts until they get bored to death. Even the ultra rich in modern American society do labor- they just call it hobbies. They fly planes, build model trains, and go to cooking classes- whatever. It's all work. And it is all work that can be made productive.

Yes, things might get a little unbalanced. But things are plenty unbalanced right now as it is. Everyone wants to be a dot com executive, despite the fact that dot coms aren't doing much to make anyone's life better. And nobody wants to be a teacher despite the fact that we need teachers desperately. I think that allocating occupation by personal interest/talent is at least as reasonable as allocating it by someone's personal economic ambitions tempered by their ability to pay for education.

So what about people that take more than their fair share? When you ask a person why they want to be wealthy, the answer is often "security". So what if you knew that you were going to be secure, and that you and your family would never be at risk for starvation or extreme deprivation. Well, you wouldn't need to constantly seek that security. You wouldn't need to take more than your fair share. It wouldn't ever occur to you to hoard all the bread or to take more goods than you have use for. It'd be pointless. There would be no reason.

But human nature is selfish, you say? Maybe. But human nature doesn't stop us. It is human nature to screw every attractive person of the opposite sex you see, but we certainly don't do that. One of the great things about society is that it gets around some of the nastier aspects of "human nature". I'm a little doubtful that selfishness in the form of not working and hoarding goods is human nature, anyway. We've never lived in a non-capitalist society. We only know the current worldview, and while it is hard to picture a different one, that doesn't mean that a different one can't exist.

For what it's worth, I consider strongly socialist countries like Sweden to be examples of ways in which bits of communism can be successful.

Peace.

As Chagur pointed out...

"From each according to his abilities,
to each according to his needs!"

And as kmguru also reminded...

The easterners believe Communism is a noble philosophy where you provide service according to your ability but receive your benefits as per your needs.

...A primary problem accompanying any societal philosophy or system set up “for the people” is that there are some fundamental questions that as yet have received only unsatisfactory answers.

1. Who is the appropriate person or group to determine what each of us is capable of “donating” to the continuance of the welfare of one’s fellow communists?

2. Who determines what you or I are worth, and how much each of us should give? And what real recourse would we have if we disagree with the “state’s” decree?

3. And who has the right to tell an individual what his/her needs are? How is anyone other than said individual qualified to judge that person's true needs?

Just for starters...

I think there are relatively few Americans who can honestly claim to be 100% satisfied with the U.S. mixed economy (which is not a true Capitalist‘s economy). And there is truth in many of the posts offered here from those who are dissatisfied with either (or any) politico-economical system. That’s because no system thought up by man thus far is perfect; it has not been perfectly modeled. And none will ever be perceived as perfect because there have been, and still are, other factors such as religions, and as kmguru pointed out, there are various cultural backgrounds at odds, and... all of which (and more) are competing on different levels for the time, energy and output of Mankind all over the world, every minute of every day.

We are indeed moving toward becoming a global community, and I expect the ‘growing pains’ of this will be felt for several generations to come if the endeavors succeeds. In any event, Man has much to learn and to understand about how best to live, work, and thrive among his neighbors, and with himself. Until Mankind does some serious growing, a pure Capitalist or Communist system will not suffice for any majority.

We might do better to keep looking and learning rather than condemning and heralding what we only poorly understand, however... discussions such as these can aid that kind of growth.

Thx,

Counterbalance

Originally posted by goofyfish

For what it's worth, I consider strongly socialist countries like Sweden to be examples of ways in which bits of communism can be successful.
Peace.
I Agree there probably is a happy medium between communism and democracy even in our commercially charged system (USA) there are bits of socialist ideology wellfare, medicaid, social security etc. I probably am guilty due to years of indoctrination, of thinking of communism as the big Iron Curtain political system of the cold war, and probably should look with an open mind at what communism was truely meant to be. I agree whole heartedly with your take on State funded higher education.

It is human nature to screw every attractive person of the opposite sex you see, but we certainly don't do that.

Some people do...including my son...I keep telling him, beauty is only skin deep...then I gave up....:D

Cuba is really a bad example of Communism. Castro is more of a dictator than the true spirit of Communisim. Also who ever picks up the thought of Communism, they have a tendency to build it the opposite of freedom, democracy, new ideas and so on and label it as communism. Life is not black and white...

Just two days ago, I got a telephone call from a so called research organization (they identified as such) asking me, if I am "Pro-choice" or "Pro-life" on the abortion issue. When I answered I am 'neither', the caller (a man - duh!) did not know what to do. Thanked me and hung up. I did not fit into the one or the other so that he could ask me more questions and probably ask me for donations depending on which one I am.