$$$$$

It has come to my attention lately that attending college is somewhat expensive in the US and that some students would be better of studying abroad.
Why couldn't an college-level education be free? Some of the foreign students are better of in their country, where they get federal funding to go to school.

I lost my scholarship so now i can pay for myself. I have to pay about $ 6000 a year for tuition alone (Maryland). Out-of-staters are worse of, they practically pay twice as much. My sisters is studying in Germany and it seems that she has it somewhat easier than me if it comes to financing an education. I know that that taxe rates over there are considerable higher in some places but it still seems to work out. Some things just annoy me....

come to canada.
Maryland what program? physics? cs? I hear its suppose to be a good school.
You pay the high tuition because isn't american school supposed to be nicely designed?

Public higher education should be free to everyone. In the US, it would not be necessary to increase the debt or even have broad tax increases.
A third of Bush's recent tax break for the wealthy would cover the tuition of public colleges.

In US, Governement run colleges (Community colleges) are considerrably cheaper due to their main source of revunue being government money. Private colleges are a rape up the ass expensive and more prestigeous the college the more you pay...even extensive scholarships do not help much since you still end up paying incredible amounts of money.

It depends whether or not should a student pay so much. For buisness or law students a degree from a highly regarded college is neccessary...for students where your work speaks for it self (graphic designer, photographer, Illustrator) then a cheaper college is fine since it all about practice and creativity.

Come to Australia. Here we have a government loan scheme paid back via the taxation system based on your income level. A decade ago, tertiary education was totally government funded (unfortunately, I didn't get to take advantage of that).

Come to finland...it is basically for free...

Education is after all a sign of civilization.

There are public colleges and universities that charge far less than what you have stated in many states. There are scholorships, loans and grants that are available if you want to research where to get them. 50 percent of all college graduates never pay back their debts after they finish their education. It is bothersome that many students never get anything from their education for many college educated people emd up in very low paying jobs that they don't need the college education for to begin with.

I can't go to Canada, Finland nor Australia, I am temporarily stuck in Maryland :rolleyes: .Btw My major is electrical engineering. Another issue is the escalating prices of school books. Many of the text books cost over one hundred dollars. So bassically if you are a full time student you can expect to pay $ 500 alone on books per semester. That can seriously draina students resources.

Another bad thing about this is that the bookstore is likely to replace the books they currently have in stock within a one to two year time period.

The students are going to buy the books as usuall and waste their money.
The only difference between the old and new books that the bookstore sells is that new books are usually a newer edition(with minor changes i might add).
Just because a book has been used for three years doesn't mean that it has to get replaced with a new edition. But of course i can understand that there are some exceptions.I have learned the hard way that the best way to get rid of old books or aquire used books is via student networking. :cool:

Come to speak of it, my bookstore offered me $ 3.00 (yes, three US dollars) for a $100+ dollar circuits book that had "minor" water damage. :bugeye:
What a bunch of B$#% $h!+.

Have you ever thought about these online colleges which are way less expensive to use and you can do it at home in your spare time. I went to online colleges for engineering degrees using Google:

http://www.google.com/url?sa=U&start=2&q=http://www.online-university.us/electrical-engineering-degree-online.htm&e=7800

http://www.google.com/url?q=http://ad.doubleclick.net/clk%3B5705172%3B8156880%3Bo%3Fhttp://www.ntu.edu/google&sa=l&ai=ANb-mGuRMAJa4CQsqoBOskLvBay6hFYtm3fQpVOPCzIAkOBfeQT7RB IgAYaBAAAAAAA

I've heard this arguement before in school normally I just tell people to do four years in the military then they wouldn't have to worry about college costs, currently in Illinois there's a state grant that pays 4 years of tuition for 4 years of active duty service most states don't have it. But honestly, I think college should be at least cheaper. I'm currently going to community college using the G.I. Bill, when I was 18 I understood the only way for me to get into college would be if I could get Uncle Sam to pay so I did more than four years active duty and it was worth it. Check out peligrants and anything you can get from the government or take out a student loan, most people never pay them back anyways.

If you don’t pay back the student loan then you can’t finance a house. Doing military service in exchange for tuition money has of course a downside, part of which is certain--the four years of control of your life that you forfeit. If Republican rule holds there will likely be more wars and danger of death or illness for the soldier. Also Bush has shown that he is willing to lengthen soldiers’ tours of duty, breeching the sign-up agreement. Consider working to pay off an education at the cheapest college or else spending that time & far less money to educate yourself on your own. Many employers care only that you can well do the job; the university certificate per se is worthless to them. Rather than risk being killed in the battlefield, you risk a few days camping on the doorstep of an employer until they consent to verify that you can do the job despite your lack of a formal education.

This is off topic but, We lost more people on from automobile accidents then at war does that mean we should stop driving our cars? I guess battlefield death is some how more horrible then automotive death. I wasn't trying to push military enlistment because I know for some people its not an option just explaining an alternative.
Zanket said "a few days camping on the doorstep of an employer until they consent to verify that you can do the job despite your lack of a formal education"
I doubt self-trained Electrical Engineers get hired no matter how long they camp.

No, you should drive carefully and avoid the military. Electrical engineers might need a certificate but software engineers don’t. Go figure.

You can study programing language on your own and get computer certification, instead of getting a degree in the field. I know people who've done it.
Not trying to insult software engineers but I think Electrical engineering requires more knowledge than programing. Why avoid the military? Being afraid of death wont prevent it.

I’d avoid the military because it seems silly to give up 4+ years of control of your life, with risk of death/injury/illness, just for college tuition that’s worth only about $25K or so. This topic is about $$$ for college education. Time & risk are worth money. Joining the military to pay for school seems by far the most expensive way to go. Because you’ve given up control you can’t opt out--a friend of mine chose the military route and regretted enduring all that misery for its relatively small benefit. Alternatively an industrious person can learn a programming language in a few months, bank $25K excess income in one year of employment, and then go to college to learn his/her desired skill.

The military has more benefits than just college, and here in the U.S. there's alot of different ways to get into college.

I can't go to Canada, Finland nor Australia, I am temporarily stuck in Maryland :rolleyes: ..

Nobody is ever really stuck. It might take some willpower and organization to make a decision to go and then actually go somewhere else. But usually it is extremely easy in hindsight to move to another place.

I guess you are right :D

bogus, i lost my scholarship too, and ironically it was in a electronics school also (DeVry)
im no longer going to that school cuz i got fed up, with all the BS and Financial Aid crap- does anyone else see the pattern in ANY College? Their Financial Aid is ALWAYS a god damned HASSLE - always giving you the Runaround??
maybe government funded would help solve this.
to comment on the Self-Teaching route, ive been teaching myself computers and computer graphics and i am fairly well (and hold a current job in that field) but that isnt going to get you anywhere. or i should say it isnt going to get you far...
to advance u really need a formal education. sad, but true.
its the reason im going to school for Graphic Design now, instead of electronics.

Loans are the best thing for poor students like me and you (in the united states), and with co-signers you can keep the rate down a bit. theres millions of ways to get the money for your education, and even possibly get some extra cash in your pocket- you have to search for it tho, its hidden so not everyone uses it, get it ?

on the military note- that is no way to go about getting your education. unless you want to go into the force , then dont bother - this option should be used only if you had some interest in joining the military - not solely because u want someone to pay for your education.

Zonabi, i think you are right about the military options, that a person should not go into the military just to get money for college. Some things just suck....

i have to disagree i'm going to a 4 year college tuition 40,000 total and then med school 250,000 us dollars + when 100% tuition covered for 4 years the military sounds like a very nice option, that im am going to do instead of living in debt!! :m: !

Financial Aid covers a lot, but it is a huge hassle to sign up and stay eligible (even the slightest shift in income can make you no longer eligible for Aid). But we also have other kinds of student loans, grants, scholarships. There are a lot of ways to pay for school in the United States. But I agree, it is way too expensive. As for free higher education, if that happened, than a college degree would be lowered to the level of a High School diploma. Everyone would have one, and you would need something else to be considered more valuable to an employer. Capitalism may have it's downsides, but it's the reason why college graduates make more money than high school graduates.

I've heard this arguement before in school normally I just tell people to do four years in the military then they wouldn't have to worry about college costs, currently in Illinois there's a state grant that pays 4 years of tuition for 4 years of active duty service most states don't have it.

If you're going to join the military to get a college education then you should go ROTC; not only do you come in as an officer - and consequently get paid much better than an enlistee - but they truly pay for your college(*see my later comment). Even if you don't qualify for a four year scholarship 3 year scholarships are stupidly easy to get.

i have to disagree i'm going to a 4 year college tuition 40,000 total and then med school 250,000 us dollars + when 100% tuition covered for 4 years the military sounds like a very nice option, that im am going to do instead of living in debt!! !

Uhh, the G.I. Bill only pays for all your college provided it's under a certain amount. Also, as your pot leaf so perfectly exemplifies, the military reduces your freedom significantly; aside from the obvious things like being forced to move, their goal in boot camp is to make your personality into a form that they can get the best results from.

Note what Wikipedia has to say about it: It is a "buy in" program; active duty members pay $100 into the program monthly for 12 months; when they use the benefits, they receive as of 2005 $1034 monthly for a maximum of 36 months if the veteran is enrolled full-time. Part-time veteran students receive less, but for a proportionately longer period. Veterans from the reserve have different eligibility requirements and different rules on receiving benefits. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/GI_Bill

Also, the military treats their soldiers (both current and former) like shit:

... Working with the CIA, the Department of Defense gave hallucinogenic drugs to thousands of "volunteer" soldiers in the 1950's and 1960's. In addition to LSD, the Army also tested quinuclidinyl benzilate, a hallucinogen code-named BZ. (Note 37) Many of these tests were conducted under the so-called MKULTRA program, established to counter perceived Soviet and Chinese advances in brainwashing techniques. Between 1953 and 1964, the program consisted of 149 projects involving drug testing and other studies on unwitting human subjects...[10] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Project_MKULTRA

There are a lot of ways to pay for school in the United States. But I agree, it is way too expensive. As for free higher education, if that happened, than a college degree would be lowered to the level of a High School diploma. Everyone would have one, and you would need something else to be considered more valuable to an employer. Capitalism may have it's downsides, but it's the reason why college graduates make more money than high school graduates.


In the Netherlands and Finland you can't go to university unless you pass the test. In the netherlands that means completing successfully 'pre-university' school, which can only be done by the smartest top percentage. Not by the richest. In Finland you have to pass a special exam. So instead free education lowering the college degree, it actually raises the bar.

i have to disagree i'm going to a 4 year college tuition 40,000 total and then med school 250,000 us dollars + when 100% tuition covered for 4 years the military sounds like a very nice option, that im am going to do instead of living in debt!! :m: !
You might want to think about that a little more carefully. The average starting salary for a doctor is usually around $150,000, varying a little depending on what field you go into. This means that you are very likely to lose money if you spend 4 years in the military and get a free education in exchange.

Using your numbers, your total education will cost around $410,000. This would put the value of your time in the military at about $102,500/year. Of course they’ll also pay you a salary, so call it $125,000/year. In order to get that $125,000/year, you are giving up the $150,000/year that you would have been making if you hadn’t gone into the military and had simply taken out loans and become a doctor 4 years sooner. In other words, you are effectively paying around $25,000/year to be a soldier instead of a doctor for 4 years.

You would be much better off financially if you simply get loans and then pay them off with your enormous doctor’s salary. Here's a link to consider: http://www.studentdoc.com/july_surv.html

That’s just in the short term. In the long term you will probably end up losing hundreds of thousands of dollars, since doctors with decades of experience can earn much much more, up into the $250,000 range. Assuming you retire at the same age, those four years as a doctor that you lost to the army will translate into a much larger loss in salary, since it’s effectively cutting off your last, highest-paying years.

You might want to think about that a little more carefully. The average starting salary for a doctor is usually around $150,000, varying a little depending on what field you go into. This means that you are very likely to lose money if you spend 4 years in the military and get a free education in exchange.

Using your numbers, your total education will cost around $410,000. This would put the value of your time in the military at about $102,500/year. Of course they’ll also pay you a salary, so call it $125,000/year. In order to get that $125,000/year, you are giving up the $150,000/year that you would have been making if you hadn’t gone into the military and had simply taken out loans and become a doctor 4 years sooner. In other words, you are effectively paying around $25,000/year to be a soldier instead of a doctor for 4 years.

You would be much better off financially if you simply get loans and then pay them off with your enormous doctor’s salary. Here's a link to consider: http://www.studentdoc.com/july_surv.html

That’s just in the short term. In the long term you will probably end up losing hundreds of thousands of dollars, since doctors with decades of experience can earn much much more, up into the $250,000 range. Assuming you retire at the same age, those four years as a doctor that you lost to the army will translate into a much larger loss in salary, since it’s effectively cutting off your last, highest-paying years.

well first off, i do not believe that doctors make an average salary until completing their residency :confused:. I know my friend at Yale Med. always complained about his salary and other hassels like the rate on his Profession insurance that cost's MD's an Arm & Leg. Bottom line all the hard work put in to becoming a Doc, and all the trouble and probation being placed on the new docs by the General Doctor/ surgeon (what ever the field) for the first few years doesn't seem to be worth it! IMO of course, but the perks you get later down the line are pretty much unmatched besides politics.

Another issue is the escalating prices of school books. Many of the text books cost over one hundred dollars. So bassically if you are a full time student you can expect to pay $ 500 alone on books per semester. That can seriously draina students resources.
Come to speak of it, my bookstore offered me $ 3.00 (yes, three US dollars) for a $100+ dollar circuits book that had "minor" water damage. :bugeye:
What a bunch of B$#% $h!+.
That's why I kept most of my textbooks. I figured it was better to keep them for reference than to get three dollars for a
$100 book.

That's why I kept most of my textbooks. I figured it was better to keep them for reference than to get three dollars for a
$100 book.

That seems a bit harsh. I know my school will give you a good percentage of your money back as long as it's in good condition. "Water damage" is hardly minor, especially when dealing with books.

well first off, i do not believe that doctors make an average salary until completing their residency
True, but since you have to do residency either way it doesn't really matter.

No more uneducated people so no jobless after 25 years hence lot of taxes collected there off, a very powerful country.

No more uneducated people so no jobless after 25 years hence lot of taxes collected there off, a very powerful country.Sadly, a large percentage of jobless people are well-educated.

Sadly, a large percentage of jobless people are well-educated. I hope I am wrong, But I am sure that out of that large percentage of educated jobless people none are gona die hungry ?

Depends where they live.

Often well-educated people are jobless because they hold out for good jobs. Someone with a master's degree could easily get a job cooking burgers, but they would probably hold out for something better.

And what are we going to eat in the meanwhile? imaginary burgers?

As for free higher education, if that happened, than a college degree would be lowered to the level of a High School diploma. Everyone would have one, and you would need something else to be considered more valuable to an employer. Capitalism may have it's downsides, but it's the reason why college graduates make more money than high school graduates.

Um, getting a college degree should depend on ability to learn, not daddy's pocketbook.

Um, getting a college degree should depend on ability to learn, not daddy's pocketbook.


Everyone has the ability to learn, a college degree would be worthless because everyone would have one. I like the idea of a tough admittance test that spurious talked about, if it's going to be free make sure it is tough as hell to get in. Making a college degree so easy to attain would basically turn college into an extended high school program.

Marks are usually a good indicator of intelligence, but what about those who fall just below the line? That would be denying many smart people the shot at an education simply because they dislike memorization. And you want to do that to increase the value of education?

The goal be to educate as peole as much as possible, not keep them uneducated for the sake of a slave class which can be easily found in 3rd world countries. Remember, its a global economy. More education = better jobs country wide. Good karma.

Marks are usually a good indicator of intelligence, but what about those who fall just below the line? That would be denying many smart people the shot at an education simply because they dislike memorization. And you want to do that to increase the value of education?

Nonsense. I sucked big time in pre-university school. The worst grades ever. In university I ended up in the top 10%.

Everyone has the ability to learn

To varying degrees, yes. It's generally considered impossible for someone with Angelman's Sydrome to learn how to speak. Similarly, you or I couldn't learn as many languages as someone with savant ability in that area.

a college degree would be worthless because everyone would have one. I like the idea of a tough admittance test that spurious talked about, if it's going to be free make sure it is tough as hell to get in. Making a college degree so easy to attain would basically turn college into an extended high school program.

Huh? If everyone has food and air, does that make them worthless? Would you care to try going without either of those?

Marks are usually a good indicator of intelligence, but what about those who fall just below the line? That would be denying many smart people the shot at an education simply because they dislike memorization. And you want to do that to increase the value of education?

If you can't pass a test to be admitted into college, you don't belong there. Take some more high school credits and than take the test again.

The goal be to educate as peole as much as possible, not keep them uneducated for the sake of a slave class which can be easily found in 3rd world countries. Remember, its a global economy. More education = better jobs country wide. Good karma.

Agreed, but college is called higher education for a reason. It's for learning specialized skills, we need people working in factories and warehouses such as UPS and FedEx, janitors, people pumping gas, taxi drivers, bus drivers, mail men(and women), etc. Those jobs are important to maintain our infrastructure, I would say much more important than the corporate jobs. We need people to not attend college and work in those "lower-class" jobs if we are to avoid collapse.

Nonsense. I sucked big time in pre-university school. The worst grades ever. In university I ended up in the top 10%.

So true. My high school grades were terrible, but I still scored well on my tests. Add that to the credits I'll be completing in community college, and that was enough for the University of Nevada, Las Vegas to accept me. I'll be attending UNLV by the winter term if I can finish my required credits in CC quick enough.

To varying degrees, yes. It's generally considered impossible for someone with Angelman's Sydrome to learn how to speak. Similarly, you or I couldn't learn as many languages as someone with savant ability in that area.

I was not aware we are talking about disabled students. Unless they are mentally challenged schools have ways of accomodating them, so I don't see the problem there. As for savants, they have a great ability to memorize things, but they don't understand a damn thing of what they are learning. For all intents and purposes, they are mentally challenged. I'm sure there are rare exceptions though.

Huh? If everyone has food and air, does that make them worthless? Would you care to try going without either of those?

We are talking about an optional advance in education, comparing college to food and air is ridiculous.

I was not aware we are talking about disabled students. Unless they are mentally challenged...

Disabled / mentally challenged is a relative term ... there's almost always someone who can learn faster. (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tathagat_Avatar_Tulsi) But whether that's injustice is another debate...

we need people working in factories and warehouses such as UPS and FedEx, janitors, people pumping gas, taxi drivers, bus drivers, mail men(and women), etc. Those jobs are important to maintain our infrastructure, I would say much more important than the corporate jobs. We need people to not attend college and work in those "lower-class" jobs if we are to avoid collapse.

You can never win with capitalism - if new technology comes along to automate jobs, there will be fear of too few jobs and too many workers. If you educate people, there's the fear of too many jobs and too few workers! :D

We are talking about an optional advance in education, comparing college to food and air is ridiculous.

My point is that education should be a basic right, not some resource to be doled out to a select portion of the population.

Everyone has the ability to learn, a college degree would be worthless because everyone would have one.

You make it sound like a college education is some magical object you can be given - wave it and the doors of opportunity open. But it's not about the certificate, it's about what a person learns and gains from going to college. The degree is only proof of getting certain, minimal marks.

Personally, I think anyone who is smart enough and prepared to work hard enough to gain from it, should be able to attend higher education. Denying it for any other reason seems shortsighted in the extreme.

The system in some European countries - where university education is free, but if you fail you have to pay to repeat the year - seems the best for now. At least it gives everyone a chance.

It is one of the greater injustices that good education is restricted to a subset of the population. There is no good reason to assume that only rich people produce smart children.

There is a subdividision in education in for instance the Netherlands based ob learning capabilities. At some time points children have to do a test and it is assessed to which education form children are best suited to. This is not a bindind agreement but a serious advice. Some parents go against it and send their children to pre-university school despite a lower advice. In a pre-university school the first 1-2 years are usually shared with a lower tier of education. At this point it can still be evaluated to go on with pre-university schooling or to step down a layer (which would still be a 'college' level of education i guess).
You can even start lower and work your way up to pre-university level. It is not that once a decision is made you are stuck with it. So it is not a matter that a mistake will lead to a fixed and closed off future.

If you can't pass a test to be admitted into college, you don't belong there. Take some more high school credits and than take the test again.

No.. what I mean is that it's ridiculous to write a test designed statistically so that only 10% of the people will pass it. That's basically an IQ test.

What entrance exams should test is to see if you have the minimum level of knowledge required. IE here we have something called 'effective writing'. You need to achieve a certain english grade in high school or write some sort of english test in university before 2nd year.

No.. what I mean is that it's ridiculous to write a test designed statistically so that only 10% of the people will pass it. That's basically an IQ test.

What entrance exams should test is to see if you have the minimum level of knowledge required. IE here we have something called 'effective writing'. You need to achieve a certain english grade in high school or write some sort of english test in university before 2nd year. An entrance test is always discriminative.

No.. what I mean is that it's ridiculous to write a test designed statistically so that only 10% of the people will pass it. That's basically an IQ test.

What entrance exams should test is to see if you have the minimum level of knowledge required. IE here we have something called 'effective writing'. You need to achieve a certain english grade in high school or write some sort of english test in university before 2nd year.

Oh, I see. I agree, that's the kind of test I had in mind when I replied to your post.


An entrance test is always discriminative.

Yeah, only to the people who don't belong in college yet. I.E. people who don't posses enough knowledge and need to continue taking high school level courses until they are able to pass the test. If you allow people who do not posses the minimum amount of knowledge required to succeed in a college level class to attend college, you are just setting them up for failure.

....
Yeah, only to the people who don't belong in college yet. I.E. people who don't posses enough knowledge and need to continue taking high school level courses until they are able to pass the test. If you allow people who do not posses the minimum amount of knowledge required to succeed in a college level class to attend college, you are just setting them up for failure. This is discrimination and obstruction in freedom to pursue education.

This is discrimination and obstruction in freedom to pursue education.

How is telling someone to take high school level classes so they can succeed in college "obstruction in freedom to pursue education"? That's what community college is for, if they want to waste money to take college courses only to fail them, than the community colleges will be happy to take their money. But when it comes to a university, you need to posses a certain amount of knowledge to get in.

How is telling someone to take high school level classes so they can succeed in college "obstruction in freedom to pursue education"? That's what community college is for, if they want to waste money to take college courses only to fail them, than the community colleges will be happy to take their money. But when it comes to a university, you need to posses a certain amount of knowledge to get in. If They want to waste money whats the problem, They should always atleast be allowed to give exams, what if they pass say in next 7 years ?.

If They want to waste money whats the problem, They should always atleast be allowed to give exams, what if they pass say in next 7 years ?.


Than they are allowed in, that's what we've been saying the entire time. Have you actually been reading the posts? I take it English isn't your native language?

Capitalism may have it's downsides, but it's the reason why college graduates make more money than high school graduates.

That's changing (leveling) gradually. Quite a number of college degrees are sure tickets to poor house.

Often well-educated people are jobless because they hold out for good jobs. Someone with a master's degree could easily get a job cooking burgers, but they would probably hold out for something better.

That is BS. I was there. I was down to $100 in checking account, about to live under bridge. Tried to get any job to stay alive and couldn't until I lied on applications (hid that damned useless 3.95 GPA education). Therefore, if one is deep down on his luck in getting a job in the field, education (especially a lot of it) is just like a stone on one's neck. That "transferable skills" BS from books never works. One must be "premanufactured" and "preprogrammed" for a job (fresh graduates don't count) or one should know right people in the right places; or, one must die under bridge with all that education.

come to canada.
Yes, go to Canada. If you want to pay $12,000 a year.... :rolleyes:

Go to Scandinavia instead. Education there is free.

Well, if ya' can't afford something, should you be able to enjoy it? Why is it some of you think that every-damned-thing should be free to you just because you want it? Does that actually make any rational sense to you?

Baron Max

Education should be free. If it is not, then you are practically ensalving people. Education should be a right, not a privilege.

Education should be free. If it is not, then you are practically ensalving people. Education should be a right, not a privilege.

Well, hell, if that's the case, shouldn't food be free long, long before education? I.e., a person who has starved to death surely can't be in need of an education!! So ...food should be free. But then where does one cook and eat it? Oh, a home! So a home should be free, too. And gas and electricity should be free so as to cook the food and keep the home warm/cool. Oh, and cars should be free so we can go get the food!

Hey, I have a great idea .....let's just make everything on Earth free to anyone who wants it ...no matter what it is or how expensive it is. Great idea, huh?

Baron Max

Food practially is free. Go to a soup kitchen or food hamper.

Modern society has a surplus of food AND idiots.

Well, hell, if that's the case, shouldn't food be free long, long before education?
Well, yeah! Absolutely! Haven't we discussed this before?

I.e., a person who has starved to death surely can't be in need of an education!! So ...food should be free. But then where does one cook and eat it? Oh, a home! So a home should be free, too.
Slippery slope....
But, yeah. Home should be free too. But that's harder to do.

And gas and electricity should be free so as to cook the food and keep the home warm/cool.
Well, you don't really need those things to survive. But having them free is obviously helpfull...

Oh, and cars should be free so we can go get the food!
That's going very far. But someday, who knows?

Hey, I have a great idea .....let's just make everything on Earth free to anyone who wants it ...no matter what it is or how expensive it is. Great idea, huh?
It's not that easy. Unless you can erradicate scarcity, it is really not easy at all to do that....

Food practially is free. Go to a soup kitchen or food hamper.

Modern society has a surplus of food AND idiots.
Yes.
It is still not that easy to find free food though....

That is BS. I was there. I was down to $100 in checking account, about to live under bridge. Tried to get any job to stay alive and couldn't until I lied on applications (hid that damned useless 3.95 GPA education). Therefore, if one is deep down on his luck in getting a job in the field, education (especially a lot of it) is just like a stone on one's neck. That "transferable skills" BS from books never works. One must be "premanufactured" and "preprogrammed" for a job (fresh graduates don't count) or one should know right people in the right places; or, one must die under bridge with all that education.
And I’ve known many phd graduates who preferred to be unemployed for months rather than take a job that paid less than $50,000/year. Anecdotal evidence is wonderful, isn’t it?

By the way, what was your degree in?

College education is useless. You gotta be an entrepeneur. And that is a whole different education...

I mean.... do you rather work at a clothing store getting paied $8 an hour to sell more then $100 worth of inventory or own the store and get paid to do anything? (Besides setting up the store, of course).

:eek: :bugeye:

And I’ve known many phd graduates who preferred to be unemployed for months rather than take a job that paid less than $50,000/year.

To do that you got to have: 1) money or momma's basement; 2) reasonable chances to find that > 50k job; Not every Ph.D. holder have those prerequisites. And I can tell you, for survival sake (just for survival, no fancy jobs, etc.), having no $/job and having a Ph.D. is a way worse than having no $/job and having community college or HS school diploma.


By the way, what was your degree in?
My degree is quite meaningless. I did graduate work in materials science and got a Ph.D. in "systems engineering". It's my fault though. Should have never enrolled there. That kind of "degree" is a way for the engineering school to provide graduate labor for professors without having necessary means to maintain variety of graduate programs. They have fancy, to say the least, definition of "systems engineering" there too. However, I have never intended on science career (seen enough of 40 years old postdocs, slimebags and futility). However, entry level engineering jobs are effectively off limits to a Ph.D. holder, no experience for "experience" only jobs, graduate work on something of zero commercial value (a big NO to get an R&D job in industry) + meaningless degree from a 2nd tier school. Quite a loser :), :(.
In two words, I'm screwed for life. I was looking for a suitable job 8 months (before running of $) to no avail. Had I been looking 8 years more, results would have been just about the same.

From experience of my utter failure I can tell you, if you really want that Ph.D.: avoid 2nd tier graduate schools (under normal circumstances), do graduate work in something that interests industry (i.e. industry, not government pays for). As much as they tell you, "it doesn't mater, what your thesis is about, you can always change directions along the road", it's not the case, it matters a lot, it pretty much defines your career destiny.

OK, now you can feel better :) You can't be greater loser than me.