This is mainly directed at atheists. Do you find christianity to be interesting?

If you don't, is that a reason for not believing it is true? - of course not, you will probably say, but just a thought...

If you do find it interesting, what parts?

If you don't find christianity interesting, but find religion interesting then comment that too if you want.

This is just plain curiousity from my side, thought that maybe they just don't find it interesting and we all learn better when we are interested in something.


DISCLAIMER:
I don't want to imply that we can only believe what we are interested in.
I don't want to imply that believing comes from learning (you have to believe what you learn).
I don't want anything bad with this post (wow, why haven't anybody thought about this before).

I think your idea is very valid.

I've been surrounded by Christian culture most of my life and so it does appear boring and dull while the cultural aspects associated with other religions seem interesting, beautiful, and mysterious. But, that doesn't make their religion any more plausible to me.

you have to believe what you learn

:rolleyes: Isn't that the way atheism works?

I think the history of how Xianity came to be what one would call Xianity today is interesting. But then again, I also think the same of Islam and the Qur’an. Or the affect the Iliad or Aeneid had on how Greeks and Romans imagined their beginnings and worldview - its really fascinating. The stories societies tell to teach one another and for a collective cohesiveness - really does reflect on the human psyche - which is, one could say, interesting :)

This is mainly directed at atheists. Do you find christianity to be interesting?
no :p

If you don't, is that a reason for not believing it is true? - of course not, you will probably say, but just a thought...
no ,the reason is, its idiotic,it teaches lies, fairy tales and fantasies,
www.skepticsannotatedbible.com
www.atheists.org

§our§tar:

you have to believe what you learn

Isn't that the way atheism works?
*************
M*W: No. That is the way xianity works.

I find Christianity to be interesting to the same extent that I would find a loaded gun pointed at my head interesting. I am very highly motivated to understand the mentality of my assailant so I might be able to render him inert and avoid a disaster.

My religious beliefs completely depend on my mood. Well, amount of life experience also counts. I did find Christianity interesting for a while because of ethics it promotes (those were the days when I really wanted to become a saint-like person). I never really got into close contact with it until my art history classes where, obviously, Christianity looks very pretty.

What discourages my beliefs regarding many religions is the way they treat individuals. Christianity keeps saying people are bad. I can't believe in that. We are all inherently GOOD from birth, without any sin; believing the contrary is self-destructive. (etc, etc, etc.... I can bring up many things Christianity says that contradict what I learned in life, and that has nothing to do with science.)

I call myself an atheist because I can't stick to any particular religion for too long, I always find things wrong with it. I can also make my own religion. Anybody read Cat's Cradle by Vonnegut? Some good religion that's described there.

My religious beliefs completely depend on my mood. Well, amount of life experience also counts. I did find Christianity interesting for a while because of ethics it promotes (those were the days when I really wanted to become a saint-like person). I never really got into close contact with it until my art history classes where, obviously, Christianity looks very pretty.

What discourages my beliefs regarding many religions is the way they treat individuals. Christianity keeps saying people are bad. I can't believe in that. We are all inherently GOOD from birth, without any sin; believing the contrary is self-destructive. (etc, etc, etc.... I can bring up many things Christianity says that contradict what I learned in life, and that has nothing to do with science.)

I call myself an atheist because I can't stick to any particular religion for too long, I always find things wrong with it. I can also make my own religion. Anybody read Cat's Cradle by Vonnegut? Some good religion that's described there.Christianity don't say people are bad. Christianity say that no one is good except God and that we are all sinners.

Christianity is for the sinners, so that they can be saved through Christ that died for our sins. But we have to accept that the world isn't OK as it is now, we can't just let it be. The change must come from within, so we must accept that we are sinners too.

If we are sinners then we are adding to the total misery, we can't afford having our eyes closed.

It's like a butterfly effect, the sin you do to someone is at high risk of being forwarded to hurt not only the one you made the sin to, but also to others which are completly innocent (even if the first person wasn't), it could also by upbringing be added to children (for example certain types of contempt) so that they forward it to other people, and so on...

So what you do to a single person, DOESN'T effect just that person, it affects people around him, you are a part of a chain, where things you say get forwarded along that chain, if you don't forward the sin that others has put on you, then you break that chain. See? You may break a chain that has millions of links.

Sure there are many other chains, and the sin will take a different way, but you have done what you could.

Don't take me wrong, everything isn't bad, there are chains that forward good stuff also, where someone does something good to you and you feel that you want to make good to someone else too. You should be part of that chain instead, or better yet, you could be the link that stops the sin while forwarding something good instead, thus making your own good chain? You do know where all chains end don't you? It ends and begins with God.



So we aren't totally lost after all.



The above is my beliefs on chains that are around the world, and I know that to some degree it's correct.

The above isn't pure christian thought, there are indications in the Bible about this though (original sin as an example of sin that can be passed on).

But the thing I wanted to say, in essence is this: People in general aint bad, but no one is good except God.

Christianity say that no one is good except God and that we are all sinners.

But people are good! Some do more bad things than others, but people are good! Humans do have inherent kindness, caring, sympathy, love, other stuff.... It's destructive to one's self-esteem to keep thinking he is filthy with sins all over for the rest of his life. Besides, "good" and "bad" are relative, interests are bound to conflict somewhere.

Yes we do "bad" things. But why call it a sin? Why scare people with a hell? Why can't people simply be civilized (at the modern day, not earlier in history)? Why can't a person act with consideration about pains and pleasures of others and effects of his own actions? Christianity seems to promote a sort of cowardliness and bribe people into doing good things. There's no virtue in that.

Christianity is for the sinners, so that they can be saved through Christ that died for our sins. But we have to accept that the world isn't OK as it is now, we can't just let it be. The change must come from within, so we must accept that we are sinners too.

The world isn't okay is due to God's incompetence and imperfect creation. Maybe it's not really God you are worshipping but Demiurge.

This is mainly directed at atheists. Do you find christianity to be interesting?
The bible is an interesting story and im more fascinated by why people believe it and how it came to exist, church sermons however seem to have the highest death rate due to boredom.(maybe everyones just sleeping though)
If you don't, is that a reason for not believing it is true? - of course not, you will probably say, but just a thought...
It seems as though you feel the reason nobody believes it is because its boring, that would actually just be the reason nobody goes to church, how interesting something is does little for how true or believable it may be.
This is just plain curiousity from my side, thought that maybe they just don't find it interesting and we all learn better when we are interested in something.
Of course we learn better when we are interested in something, but thats quite irrelavent as to whether or not somebody would be a christian, you dont believe something because it is interesting, or do you think middle earth and hobbits exist because they are interesting?

The bible is an interesting story and im more fascinated by why people believe it and how it came to exist, church sermons however seem to have the highest death rate due to boredom.(maybe everyones just sleeping though)

It seems as though you feel the reason nobody believes it is because its boring, that would actually just be the reason nobody goes to church, how interesting something is does little for how true or believable it may be.

Of course we learn better when we are interested in something, but thats quite irrelavent as to whether or not somebody would be a christian, you dont believe something because it is interesting, or do you think middle earth and hobbits exist because they are interesting?No, but if I was really interested in it, then I would have a far better chance at understanding it.

I don't like football very much. Thus I know next to nothing about it, if I were in a middle of a football argument then I wouldn't have much to say.

But we have to accept that the world isn't OK as it is now, we can't just let it be.

Why can't we just let it be? Each does his own part in his own small world, and that is enough. People think up these strange utopias and try to enforce them.... It does only more harm than good.

I agree with your thoughts on the chains. It doesn't have to be pure Christian thought, it is a thought that is based on experience. See, we really can learn from experience!

Why can't we just let it be? Each does his own part in his own small world, and that is enough. People think up these strange utopias and try to enforce them.... It does only more harm than good.

I agree with your thoughts on the chains. It doesn't have to be pure Christian thought, it is a thought that is based on experience. See, we really can learn from experience!And I agree with you! I've seen this by experiance, not by the Bible. Though talking FROM experiance, I can say that I've had many experiances confirmed in the Bible, when suddenly realising that AHA! that is what it's talking about, before I didn't know, since I couldn't relate to it, but when I could relate to it, I realised that this was exactly what I had experianced.

The hard part is avoiding a bad experiance because of something said in the Bible, cause before you had the experiance you didn't know that it was the experiance that the Bible referred to, since you didn't know it's "shape".

I understand why you ask "why can't we just let it be". But we can't, it's like seeing a crack without fixing it. To just let it be would be lazy. On the other hand though, each crack isn't for you to fix. And besides the world is doomed anyway, but in the meantime we should fix the cracks we see. Since the world is still "useful". You know that your car will break down in a couple of year (or less) but still you fix problems with it cause it can still be useful. But sooner or later everything breaks down.

So what cracks should we fix?

Of course the ones that we can fix. If you see a crack, don't just walk past it, maybe you are destined to fix it?

(mumble...mumble...but then I would anyway wouldn't I...mumble...mumble)

There are problems that are beyond you, but it can be easily fixed by someone else. God has a job for everyone. Everyone has a purpouse.

No, but if I was really interested in it, then I would have a far better chance at understanding it.
I feel your trying to say atheists dont understand christianity because they arnt interested in it, the bible is a book, you need an average intelligence to read and understand it, regardless of interest, its the people that are more confusing and difficult to understand. Also understanding doesnt make any of it correct which as far as im aware is where most of the dispute lies.
I don't like football very much. Thus I know next to nothing about it, if I were in a middle of a football argument then I wouldn't have much to say.
I get your point but i dislike certain sports, i still know a bit about them, sometimes i even watch them, i dislike books, i can still know authors and storylines, you are right we learn better when we are interested in something, we also enjoy ourselves more, but it doesnt mean a different level of truth and knowledge are reachable.

Though talking FROM experiance, I can say that I've had many experiances confirmed in the Bible, when suddenly realising that AHA! that is what it's talking about, before I didn't know, since I couldn't relate to it, but when I could relate to it, I realised that this was exactly what I had experianced.

Could you not have learned the same thing without the Bible telling you what conclusions to make? I did not have a religious upbringing of any sort, yet I still have basic ethics and consideration for others. I'll be brave and say I'm as kind as I can be, but not because Bible promotes kindness.

Of course the ones that we can fix.

And how do we fix cracks? I have no idea what's best for the world, so I don't attempt. Many times, I have no idea what's best for each individual, even the ones that are close to me. Each knows what's best for himself and does his best to fix things for himself; in need of assistance, they search for help. I can only do what I'm asked to do. So.... What cracks can one fix?


Christianity is a very wide-spread religion. It has made impact all over the world, historically and culturally. The Bible has been often discussed ever since it was written. It would be ignorant not to know what Christianity is about. That's why, I think, most people are interested in at least getting to know the basics.

Christianity say that no one is good except God and that we are all sinners.
.
see thats what doesnt make sense,
some people do bad $hit so you could call those sinners,
however most people are good,
and many many people are totaly sinless Im sure,
saying that everyone is a sinner b/c Adam and Eve disobeyed God is illogical.
(its a fictional story anyway) ;)

www.geocities.com/inquisitive79/index.html

I feel your trying to say atheists dont understand christianity because they arnt interested in it, the bible is a book, you need an average intelligence to read and understand it, regardless of interest, its the people that are more confusing and difficult to understand. Also understanding doesnt make any of it correct which as far as im aware is where most of the dispute lies.I don't say atheists in general don't understand christianity. Of course some don't, because they never felt like they wanted to know. But I am saying that the ones that are interested in it, understands it better. Wouldn't you agree on that?

Search and you will find. If you don't search then you don't know what to find! You don't know when a point is made, if you don't search for that point (or allready have it).

I get your point but i dislike certain sports, i still know a bit about them, sometimes i even watch them, i dislike books, i can still know authors and storylines, you are right we learn better when we are interested in something, we also enjoy ourselves more, but it doesnt mean a different level of truth and knowledge are reachable.There are a basic level in where we can find knowledge in the Bible, but the nature of the Bible makes it possible of finding higher levels of knowledge within the same text.

It's said that the words written in the Bible weren't made of human understanding, and thus cannot be understood by humans. It was made by spirit and thus can be understood with spirit.

See what comes to you.

Could you not have learned the same thing without the Bible telling you what conclusions to make? I did not have a religious upbringing of any sort, yet I still have basic ethics and consideration for others. I'll be brave and say I'm as kind as I can be, but not because Bible promotes kindness.Would it be wrong if you were nice because of the Bible?

Some people need some promotion.

And how do we fix cracks? I have no idea what's best for the world, so I don't attempt. Many times, I have no idea what's best for each individual, even the ones that are close to me. Each knows what's best for himself and does his best to fix things for himself; in need of assistance, they search for help. I can only do what I'm asked to do. So.... What cracks can one fix?Obviously we should start with ourselves...and if you see a crack that you believe that you could fix (outside or inside)...then fix it. You have abilities too. If you don't feel confident that you can fix it, then wait, everything doesn't have to be made at once. Next time you see it, if you are ready, fix it. Or maybe you'll see that someone else has.


Christianity is a very wide-spread religion. It has made impact all over the world, historically and culturally. The Bible has been often discussed ever since it was written. It would be ignorant not to know what Christianity is about. That's why, I think, most people are interested in at least getting to know the basics.Ok. Remember when you were a child? You thought that when you found something, you were the only one. This shows the true nature and appreciation of things.

If you are interested in it because you've heard so much about it, then I guess that is ok too. But then you have to be humble to actually appreciate it. To see that this is the world, this has been written in the world. In reality, by real-world people, following what they felt to be the spirit of truth.

Otherwise it won't matter, but just reading it can open up some doors too I guess. People that don't see will see and people that don't hear will understand.

see thats what doesnt make sense,
some people do bad $hit so you could call those sinners,
however most people are good,
and many many people are totaly sinless Im sure,
saying that everyone is a sinner b/c Adam and Eve disobeyed God is illogical.
(its a fictional story anyway) ;)

www.geocities.com/inquisitive79/index.htmlEveryone are sinners.

Everyone can make a mistake, but everyone has also done wrong knowingly.

You can't escape it, but with Gods help you can protect yourself.

What is illogical?

What is fiction?

I'm generally atheist and I find Christianity very interesting. Christians, for the most part, aren't. If atheists don't find it interesting that is probably because it has little relevence to their daily life, and I don't blame them. For atheists, the Christian God, the greek Gods, and the Gods of the Aztecs are the same sorts of inventions. Religion doesn't have the variety of roles in society that it used to. The study of comparative religion is especially fascinating, as we can see an "evolution" of religious thought corresponding to other changes in human culture, like the rise of civilization and agriculture.

Religion is a kind of mental technology, providing a shared ideology that unifies the population, defines their role in society and the universe, and gives comfort to a rapidly evolving primate now capable of self-reflection. Wether it is true or not is kinda beside the point. Religions have offered up a variety of bizzare ideas to humanity, and Christianity is no exception (original sin, Satan,etc...). It is interesting that Jesus didn't design Christianity himself, and would probably disagree with many of it's forms, and also that it has adapted over the years to scientific truths, like the earth revolving around the sun. It's also interesting that the concept of Jesus sacrificing himself for humanity emerged from a long tradition of sacrifice, which probably orginated from human sacrifices, then evolved to just animals (more practical, and who doesn't like a good barbeque), then to single acts of sacrifice like Abraham and Isaac (which didn't have to actually happen to be significant), then the sacrifice to end all sacrifices of Jesus (whew, finally we're done with that).

I'm generally atheist and I find Christianity very interesting. Christians, for the most part, aren't. If atheists don't find it interesting that is probably because it has little relevence to their daily life, and I don't blame them. For atheists, the Christian God, the greek Gods, and the Gods of the Aztecs are the same sorts of inventions. Religion doesn't have the variety of roles in society that it used to. The study of comparative religion is especially fascinating, as we can see an "evolution" of religious thought corresponding to other changes in human culture, like the rise of civilization and agriculture.

Religion is a kind of mental technology, providing a shared ideology that unifies the population, defines their role in society and the universe, and gives comfort to a rapidly evolving primate now capable of self-reflection. Wether it is true or not is kinda beside the point. Religions have offered up a variety of bizzare ideas to humanity, and Christianity is no exception (original sin, Satan,etc...). It is interesting that Jesus didn't design Christianity himself, and would probably disagree with many of it's forms, and also that it has adapted over the years to scientific truths, like the earth revolving around the sun. It's also interesting that the concept of Jesus sacrificing himself for humanity emerged from a long tradition of sacrifice, which probably orginated from human sacrifices, then evolved to just animals (more practical, and who doesn't like a good barbeque), then to single acts of sacrifice like Abraham and Isaac (which didn't have to actually happen to be significant), then the sacrifice to end all sacrifices of Jesus (whew, finally we're done with that).I think I understand what you are saying. But I feel that after all, there is a truth behind it all, and if we find that truth then I believe that it would be very consistent with christianity, and also explain the other religions.

Since I'm a christian myself, I believe that it is the truth. I also believe that in the eyes of the truth we will find explanations to everything. Actually not only find it, but rather become a part of the explanation, so that we can accept everything that has been and understand why, not by external methods but by the wisdom of God (which penetrates everything in it's smallest part, is purer than light and thus can see the insides and outsides of everything). Not that I know this is the way it works, but I think that it's something similar to that.


...man has alot of motives, but the essence of any religion is the Truth. If the Truth part is missing, then the religion will fade away faster than light.

(the religion must have some kind of idea of what the truth may be, otherwise we would eventually loose comfort in it).

Would it be wrong if you were nice because of the Bible?

yes as it would be hypocritical.
If God does exist, presumably He'll know I don't really believe in Him, that I'm pretending to believe in him on the off chance that He might really exist. If He's willing to accept me if I just "Go through the motions" then I suspect just being a good person will also be enough.

Would it be wrong if you were nice because of the Bible?

I, personally? Yes. I don't think it's genuine enough to be nice because a book said so, or because I'm scared, or because I'm bribed. Someone once said to me that I should stop living in books and start living in life. That person was not particularly wise, but it sounds right that life experience should be received from life, not from a book.

Another thing. How do you find out that you have to fix the world if you are already saved by believing in Jesus? You yourself said that this world is doomed. (Here is anothier question: why do you think the world is doomed? You may die, all humans may die, but the universe will go on :p ) I heard once about this Jewish rabbi. He, as all religious Jews, expected the messiah to come the next day. So he lived in a room with a chair and a desk and nothing else. Obviously, no messiah came in his lifetime.

Some people need some promotion.

As centuries go by, fewer people need promotion. Many don't find the promotion persuasive enough. That's where you get a lot of atheists.

I'm generally atheist and I find Christianity very interesting. Christians, for the most part, aren't.

I disagree. Christians are an utterly interesting folk. Some are saint-like, some are manipulative. The Bible itself may be a boring long read, but the interpretations and uses of it are so fascinating, down to each detail! I was inspired to finally read the book by the goodness of some Christians I knew personally.

Ok. Remember when you were a child? You thought that when you found something, you were the only one. This shows the true nature and appreciation of things.

I searched for many things in the Bible. Besides personal search for explanations of different phenomena, I also wanted to see where all of these various conclusions and debates come from. I did find some issues for debate. However, I did not find explanations I looked for. What I read seemed contradictory to what I experienced; so I discarded my spiritual interests in the subject.

Someone once said to me that I should stop living in books and start living in life. That person was not particularly wise, but it sounds right that life experience should be received from life, not from a book.



This Person may have recognized that you were ready for the Next Step -- that you had read enough. The same Person might have looked at some others and thought, with equal sincerity, that they were ignorant slobs who could only benefit by reading a few good books.

My own opinion is that much can be learned from All Accumulated Human Knowledge. Why should every person be made to reinvent the Wheel? A good Library is like your own personal "Owners Manual" for your Physical Body and your Spiritual Self.

I, personally? Yes. I don't think it's genuine enough to be nice because a book said so, or because I'm scared, or because I'm bribed. Someone once said to me that I should stop living in books and start living in life. That person was not particularly wise, but it sounds right that life experience should be received from life, not from a book.Being nice obviously isn't something you learn. But by reading the Bible you can become motivated at being nice, and you can be able to see when you start to get lost and thus keep track.

If you see someone be nice, then you can feel that you want to be nice too and it wouldn't be hypocritical or false. Taking others as an example isn't wrong. It's the same with the Bible, it describes many nice things that you can identify with.

Another thing. How do you find out that you have to fix the world if you are already saved by believing in Jesus? You yourself said that this world is doomed. (Here is anothier question: why do you think the world is doomed? You may die, all humans may die, but the universe will go on :p ) I heard once about this Jewish rabbi. He, as all religious Jews, expected the messiah to come the next day. So he lived in a room with a chair and a desk and nothing else. Obviously, no messiah came in his lifetime.I don't have to. But it would be easier for me if I do good things, moral is strengthen that way.

How do I find out that I have to fix the world?

What does that have to do with being saved?

We should fix the problems we see that we can fix. By reasons stated.

You don't stop eating just because your body will die eventually.

There are meaning in the world yet. There are meaning with you being alive yet.

As centuries go by, fewer people need promotion. Many don't find the promotion persuasive enough. That's where you get a lot of atheists.Maybe it's because people are too afraid to be persuaded instead of seeing the truth behind it. If you are nice then it isn't because someone try to persuade you into it. It's because you see the truth behind the words and understand why people are so eager to persuade you. You don't get nice because of the persuation itself, you get nice by accepting the truth behind it and understanding why.

yes as it would be hypocritical.
If God does exist, presumably He'll know I don't really believe in Him, that I'm pretending to believe in him on the off chance that He might really exist. If He's willing to accept me if I just "Go through the motions" then I suspect just being a good person will also be enough.You simplify it too much, nothing is that simple.

If you don't believe in Him then you don't. You'll feel that you don't believe.

But if you want to believe then you can pray to understand how you can believe. If you are really honest in your attempt, then I believe that God will help you.

Believing isn't buildt by arguments, it's something truly genuine, something in it's own essence. Beyond any argument.

If you constantly give arguments as to why you believe (or give others arguments), then you can tell that you are starting to loose that belief.

You should rest in your belief.


A sidenote here:
Doing something, is also above arguments if you do it by faith.

I disagree. Christians are an utterly interesting folk. Some are saint-like, some are manipulative. The Bible itself may be a boring long read, but the interpretations and uses of it are so fascinating, down to each detail! I was inspired to finally read the book by the goodness of some Christians I knew personally.
It was a gross generalization, I do know several very interesting Christians, they tend to be more unorthodox in their views and practice, but I wonder about the many who seem to equate its values with dullness. Maybe it has less to do with the religion itself than the groupthink dynamic of a church.

This is mainly directed at atheists. Do you find christianity to be interesting?
If you don't, is that a reason for not believing it is true? - of course not, you will probably say, but just a thought...
If you do find it interesting, what parts?
If you don't find christianity interesting, but find religion interesting then comment that too if you want.
This is just plain curiousity from my side, thought that maybe they just don't find it interesting and we all learn better when we are interested in something.

I found christianity interesting, I learned it, analysed it, cracked it, got bored after.

I found christianity interesting, I learned it, analysed it, cracked it, got bored after.Why did you crack it? What method did you use? What did you find out? What makes you think you are right?

Remember; you walk the way to your goal. What was your goal?