In writing this message, I wish to relate some very simple truths about Christianity.

According to the mandates, guidlines, messages and teachings of Jesus Christ (as recorded in the Bible), and in using the same as a means to measure 'whether or not' an individual is truly a "follower of Christ," we see there are in this world, true Bible believing, Christ-following Christians; those whom profess to be Christians (but truly are NOT); and those whom by their own admission are NOT Christians.

I contend (and I challenge anyone to refute this), that if all man followed the teachings and example of Jesus Christ, that ours would be a world that would suffer few of the ills that plague it today. Sin, evil and suffering would still exist (as they will until His return), but to a degree that would pale in comparison to the current levels. This my friends, is the way Jesus meant and wanted it to be. The example that was His original Disciples is the 'perfect' example as to what living the 'perfect' Christian life would be. For us, striving to achieve a level of righteousness 'close' to that of His original Disciples would mean we were living our lives as true-Christians should. However and most unfortunately, this is rare in our world today and I'll now tell you why:

MAN HAS DISTORTED, MANIPULATED, IGNORED AND REDIFINED THE WORDS AND TEACHINGS OF JESUS CHRIST FOR HIS OWN BENEFIT AND PERSONAL GAIN.

Who is responsible for this you ask? First and foremost by those whom profess Christianity (but do not practice it), primarily the ROMAN CATHOLIC CHURCH and the PAPACY. I firmly believe Catholicism to be "the great prostitute" of Revelation:17, for it fits perfectly the written depiction of it. Unfortunately, when a non-Christian person thinks of Christianity they immdediately think of and subscribe to the Roman Catholic example. This is tragedy of great magnitude and has painted Christianity in a negative light for all of the world to see. Fortunately, the 'true' Bible-believing and discerning Christian was given warning of Catholicism (as well as other religions) as found in 1 Timothy:4, 1-4. It reads: "Now the Spirit speaketh expressly, that in the latter times some shall depart from the faith, giving heed to seducing spirits, and doctrines of devils; speaking lies in hypocrisy; having their conscience seared with a hot iron; Forbidding to marry and commanding to abstain from meats, which God hath created to be received with thanksgiving of them which believe and know the truth. For every creature of God is good, and nothing to be refused, if it be received with thanksgiving." I find it interesting that Catholicism claims the Bible to be God-breathed and inspired word, yet forbids its priests and nuns to marry and commands abstaining from the eating of meat (now only during Lent, but at one time it was every Friday and Lent).

Do not be deceived into believing that Roman Catholicism is the ONE TRUE Christian Church, for nothing could be any farther from the truth. Doing so is why you see such hypocrisy and heresy practiced amongst its professing members. In large part, Catholicism is why non-Christians view Christianity as being hypocritical. Lastly, this is why many Protestent - Evangelical Christians have ignored or manipulated other truths as found in the Bible; they're aware of the truth regarding Catholicism but are content with finding a 'comfortable' place of existence between true-Christianity and Catholicism.

In conclusion, I contend that professing Christians need to do all he or she can, to be true followers (Disciples of Jesus Christ), 'sacrificing self' and putting into practice the example
given us by Jesus and His original Disciples, no matter how difficult it is to do so. If this was done, much of what is written on message boards such as this one would reflect a genuine respect for Christianity and possibly even a desire by non-Christians to know more of Jesus and His message in the Bible.

If you've read this and have gained any understanding, please refrain in the future from referring to all Catholics as being Christians. Know them by their actions and what they practice. Rosary, Ash Wednsday, praying to statues of dead saints or Mary, considering the act of 'taking communion' to actually be the consumption of Jesus Christs body and blood, are all blasphemous acts of heresy towards God and these are not Christians!

True Christians are not perfect nor will ever be, and we all need to become living 'modern Disciples' of our Lord Jesus Christ, according ONLY to the examples given to us in the Bible. If a professing Christian behaves otherwise, he is not abiding with the will of God for his/her life and the fruits (or lack of them) in their life will be obvious.

May God Bless Us All -

Disciple of Jesus

Originally posted by Disciple of Jesus
I contend (and I challenge anyone to refute this), that if all man followed the teachings and example of Jesus Christ, that ours would be a world that would suffer few of the ills that plague it today.

True Christians are not perfect nor will ever be, and we all need to become living 'modern Disciples' of our Lord Jesus Christ, according ONLY to the examples given to us in the Bible.
They'd be fewer ills, but still some. And great division as well; the Bible forbids (or frowns upon) Christians mixing with non-Christians.

Not sure I agree with some parts of the Bible - the whole concept of slavery, for example. I'd rather not live in a society that advocates that. Not to mention being rather lenient on punishing rapists.

christianity should be regarded as the lie that it is. it should NOT EVER be regarded as truth.

Originally posted by Firefly
They'd be fewer ills, but still some. And great division as well; the Bible forbids (or frowns upon) Christians mixing with non-Christians.

Not sure I agree with some parts of the Bible - the whole concept of slavery, for example. I'd rather not live in a society that advocates that. Not to mention being rather lenient on punishing rapists.

Greetings Firefly -

Thanks for your reply. Yes there indeed would still be ills but as for great division because of Christians being forbidden to mix with non-Christians, this is not so and here's why. Jesus made an example of mingling with tax collectors, drunkards, prostitutes and the like, 'sinners' (as some disciples put it), and was always questioned as to why He did. His reply was the same; that all fall short of the glory of God and that all men were at one time or another, dead to sin. His most resounding rebuke was made upon saving a prostitute from certain death (by stoning) at the hands of an angry male crowd. He said to them, "let he who has not sinned 'with' this woman, cast the first stone" (paraphrased). With that, 'every' man in the crowd dropped their stones and walked shamefully away. Jesus then told the woman, "sin no more" and sent her on her way. We were told not to "yoke" ourselves (or become one) with sinners, not disassociate ourselves from them. As for slavery, Jesus did not advocate slavery and in fact, He admonished 'masters' or 'bosses of others' to treat their 'servents' or employees generously with fair pay, respect and kindness. Also, He had asked that 'servents' perform their employment duties "as unto God," even when their 'master' treated them unfairly harsh, so as to send a message of 'righteous submission to authority', to the unrighteous who witnessed this behavior.

Thanks again Firefly and all the best to you.

In His Name -

Disciple of Jesus

Disciple of Jesus, why have you come here, a fairly secular website, and begun a thread about who are the "real" followers of Christ? What do you wish to accomplish with this thread?

As for slavery, Jesus did not advocate slavery.

:rolleyes: One need not read Hegel to realize that the existence of masters presupposes the existence of slaves.

Now perhaps I'm stupid, but doesn't giving advice to slaveowners implicitly reify a slaveowning society?

Also, He had asked that 'servents' perform their employment duties "as unto God," even when their 'master' treated them unfairly harsh, so as to send a message of 'righteous submission to authority', to the unrighteous who witnessed this behavior

The wretched and vile character of Christianity has rarely been better demonstrated. Christianity is indeed a religion for slaves.

I didn't read your entire post before, but I just did. At first it seemed as though you had a point, but you are just another one of those fundies who claims that "Catholics" are not Christians, even though every single last church can trace its roots back to it.

Originally posted by wesmorris
christianity should be regarded as the lie that it is. it should NOT EVER be regarded as truth.

Greetings Wesmorris -

Thanks for the reply, written in regard to my post. Although I personally disagree that "Christianity should be regarded as a lie," I respect your opinion, and you too for that matter. Do you practice any religion at this time or no? You don't have to answer, I was just curious. All the best to you -

In His Name -

Disciple of Jesus

Originally posted by Disciple of Jesus
Greetings Wesmorris -

Thanks for the reply, written in regard to my post. Although I personally disagree that "Christianity should be regarded as a lie," I respect your opinion, and you too for that matter.

Kind words. Would you have spoken them were it not for your religion?
Originally posted by Disciple of Jesus

Do you practice any religion at this time or no?

No, I basically loath all forms of organized religion. Technically I view them as viruses of the mind.
Originally posted by Disciple of Jesus

You don't have to answer, I was just curious. All the best to you -

Of course I don't, but you are being quite kind and respectful, quite deserving of an answer.

Oh, and I respect you too.. I haven't read your other posts besides this one and the one I originally responded to. However, I have a hard time respecting the decision you've made to buy into a lie. It's not because I don't want you to be happy, it's because your lie isn't contained within you.. it was spread to you and will likely spread to others. I have children and fear for their minds. I do not wish them infected as I would assume you would do given the opportunity and lack of knowledge of my will (as I assume you are respectfull, since you appear that way thus far).

*shrug*

One thing to add:

IMHO, a reasonable person can only accept religion as a theory. To adhere to it as if it were fact is a sign of mental weakness IMHO.

Originally posted by wesmorris
One thing to add:

IMHO, a reasonable person can only accept religion as a theory. To adhere to it as if it were fact is a sign of mental weakness IMHO. I perfer to think of religion as a bad painting of spectacular scenery.

Originally posted by Turduckin
I perfer to think of religion as a bad painting of spectacular scenery.

That's a nice way to put it.

[/quote]
We were told not to "yoke" ourselves (or become one) with sinners, not disassociate ourselves from them.
[/quote]

I would like to expand on this.....

to 'yoke ourselves' is an obscure term.......

a yoke is the thing that is placed on two oxen for plowing to distribute the burden of the plow evenly........so picture a christian and a non-christian as an oxen and a rabbit respectively........now yoke them together and its totally uneven.......now if it were two oxen, or two rabbits it would be fine (tho rabbits wouldn't do so well either but thats a different problem).... it is said that it is easier for a non-christian to pull the christian down than for a christian to pull a non-christian up.......we can see thats true from the illustration, there's almost no way that rabbit is going to grow even to the oxen, but because of the load that oxen could fall to the rabbit. So that is why we're not supposed to be 'yoked' to non-christians.

Another way of looking at it is to picture strings being tied between hearts each time people interact........the less the people know each other or like each other the less strings there are and vise versa................so if you're dating someone there are going to be a lot of strings, especially the longer you've been together..........now say one of the people becomes a christian (or is a christian already) and discovers the unevenness we talked about before, they are going to need to break it off, but the more strings there are the harder that is to break...............so if you're already a christian then you should avoid creating that many ties to non-christians because the emotional strain is terrible and eventually if that person doesnt even up with you its going to be awfully hard to cut those ties.

So there are two metaphors I guess for you to consider!

Originally posted by wesmorris
Kind words. Would you have spoken them were it not for your religion?

No, I basically loath all forms of organized religion. Technically I view them as viruses of the mind.

Of course I don't, but you are being quite kind and respectful, quite deserving of an answer.

Oh, and I respect you too.. I haven't read your other posts besides this one and the one I originally responded to. However, I have a hard time respecting the decision you've made to buy into a lie. It's not because I don't want you to be happy, it's because your lie isn't contained within you.. it was spread to you and will likely spread to others. I have children and fear for their minds. I do not wish them infected as I would assume you would do given the opportunity and lack of knowledge of my will (as I assume you are respectfull, since you appear that way thus far).

*shrug*

Hello Again Wesmorris -

In reply to your first question, yes...I personally would share kind words if it weren't for my religion. That's just the way I've always tried to communicate with others, in any forum. However, as I'm sure you've discovered in reading many posts on this message board...kindness is not always prevelant.

To be honest with you Wes, I can accept the fact that you have a hard time respecting the decision I've made "to buy into a lie." Your beliefs lead you to feel that way and that's just how things are. It would be foolish of me to think that I will not continue to encounter people who's beliefs are in complete contrast to mine. Over the past 16 years, I've learned to accept the fact that beliefs or disbeliefs on any topic are entirely personal to any individual. That in part is what makes us all so wonderfully unique!

I'm glad to hear that you do indeed fear for your childrens minds. However, in my opinion...irradicating religion at this point would not make this world a safer place in regard to their mental or physical well-being. Yes, in theory there would be (and would have been) less wars, divisions amongst people, etc., but the reality is that religion does exist and attempts to now ban or outlaw religion would be futile and the ramifications of doing so, immense.

My wife and I have 6 children (3 boys, 3 girls - ages: 18, 16, 15, 13, 9 & 6) and we too fear for them. The pressures of this world on them are enormous, and the norms of right-and-wrong have become increasingly blurred. As parents, we strive to be positive role models for them. Do we mess-up along the way? You bet. They've been brought-up to act with respect, kindness and compassion towards others. We've encouraged self-respect, self-discipline and self-motivation. Do they mess-up along the way? You bet. Just like mom and dad, they'll never be perfect, and we're understanding of that. Their religous upbringing has been Christian, and they understand (of course to varying degrees) the message and example of Jesus as found in the Bible. Over the years, they've recognized and reported the difference in positive (or socially acceptable) behavior between Christian and non-Christian kids. In school, in public and elsewhere they've noticed 'negatively' different actions, attitudes and behaviors from what they see at home or when in the company of their Christian peers. However, our 18, 16, 15 and 13 year-old's have and are dabbling in their respective social cultures. Smoking pot, cigarettes, drinking, sexual stuff, cussing, etc. have been experimented with and as far as we know, could continue as part of their lifestyles. At these 4 childrens ages (all over 13), we realize that we no longer have as much control over their actions. When they've fallen, we don't PICK them up...we HELP them up. We hold them accountable, and they rightfully face any inherrent consequence of their behavior. We are aware, that at some point in time, they ALL could turn from Christianity. Doing so would be their decision, and right-or-wrong, for good-or-bad, one they would have to persoanally live with. Would we disown or ostricize them for making that decision? Absolutely not. Once they've reached the age of recognition (which has been 12 -13 years for them), what they do with their belief's and spiritual lives is entirely up to them. We do and have done our best to lay a solid Christian foundation for them to build upon...IF they should so desire. That is and will be their choice, for what message would we as Christians (my wife and I) be sending if we didn't allow them that freedom?

In closing, I'll say that being a Chrisitan and living a Christian lifestyle is a personal choice, a covenant made between an individual and God. Only a fool would believe that he could force another to do this, regardless of whether or not that individual is his child. And, only an idiot would love his child any more or less for the choices in life that child makes.

~ Disciple of Jesus Christ

Hey, DoJ, stop avoiding me.

Originally posted by notPresidentAndrew
Disciple of Jesus, why have you come here, a fairly secular website, and begun a thread about who are the "real" followers of Christ? What do you wish to accomplish with this thread?

Greetings notPresidentAndrew -

My apologies...I've not been trying to avoid you, but rather I've replied to Wesmorris' posts in attempt to NOT "avoid" him. Anyways, here I am and I'll now reply to yours.

The reason I've come to this website and have made subsequent posts... is that I've read statements made by other professing Christians (I wont mention names) that have become increasingly bothersome to me.

Secondly, these statements have prompted me to begin a thread that addresses the issue of true-Christianity vs. psuedo-Christianity. Being a 'practicing' Christian, I do righteously take offense to the fact that other 'professing' Christians make statements in this and other forums that encourage non-Christian peoples to see us ALL as being hypocritical, mean-spirited and uncompassionate liars. As you had obviously read, I hold Roman Catholicism and its heretical teachings responsible for a great deal of the outcry against modern Christianity. Understand that Jesus of the Bible (who's message and teachings I strive to follow) would also rebuke the religion of Catholicism, since so very many of its practices and beliefs are a blatant 'blasphemy' towards God.

What I wish to ultimately accomplish here, is to get the message across to non-Christians that far to many professing Christians (especially Catholics) do NOT follow the pure and unadulterated teachings of Jesus Christ, as recorded and depicted in the New Testament of the Holy Bible. I'm sure that statement can be contested, but the behaviors of most Catholics (and some Protestents as well), unfortunately prove otherwise.

In His Name -

~ Disciple of Jesus

DOJ...

what church do you belong to? just curious.. not gonna use it to make inflammatory comments..

if you dont belong to any specific sect of christianity, are u practising your personal version of christianity?

sorry.. im in a bit of a rush.. i just read snippets of what you'd written.. i'll come back and read all of it...

:rolleyes: Can you name one church that did not somehow stem from the Roman Catholic Church?

If I told you my beliefs you would most certainly say that I am not Christian, even though I consider myself to be. Most people here are atheists, and don't have a positive or even neutral view of Christianity to begin with, so the "non-Christians" you speak of certainly aren't doing any harm. Like Jolly said in the Free Thoughts forum, you aren't going to change anyone's mind via a message board. These are best used for discussing music and crap like that. You can't change the world with vBullliten.

I've been discussing "real" Christianity, fundamentalism, and Catholicism a lot over the past few months. Maybe this is a message from God.

Oh, and syc, I'm a liberal Christian who conforms to neither fundamentalism or Catholicism. Just thought you might want to know.

Originally posted by notPresidentAndrew
I didn't read your entire post before, but I just did. At first it seemed as though you had a point, but you are just another one of those fundies who claims that "Catholics" are not Christians, even though every single last church can trace its roots back to it.

Greetings nPA -

I'm not so sure I'm "just another fundie"...but rather one that holds accountable (to what is Biblical) those whom profess to be Christians. If Jesus were present in the flesh today, he'd look around at the sorry state of modern Christianity and just shake His head in disbelief.

And I (along with many others), prefer to trace the roots of the Church back to Jesus...since that is indeed where it started and where the Church (especially the Catholic Church upon its advent) should have kept its focus. However, along came the first great heretic (the pope), and any subsequent claims of being a 'Christian' religion should have been disregarded.

Catholicism was actually warned against in the Bible before it ever existed. Read 1 Timothy 4: 1 - 3, and discern for yourself what its probable standing in Gods eyes would be. Lastly, reading 1 Timothy 4: 6 - 7, will explain why it is I share this message.

In His Name -

~ Disciple of Jesus

The Bible was composed by the Catholic Church, therefore they are the ones who have the right and responsibility of interpreting it (whether you believe or not the Church has this right, not the individual). Do you take the Bible literally? Or do you interpret it? If so, how?

nPA,

you aren't going to change anyone's mind via a message board. These are best used for discussing music and crap like that. You can't change the world with vBullliten.I believe you are quite wrong. There have been two members here at least who have clearly stated that their beliefs were significantly changed because of the revelations made available through this message board.

And if I ever had any doubts about the value (or lack thereof) of religions before I started here then that is no longer the case. I have read the many thousands of posts here and there have been a few out of that large number that have been truly enlightening. Wisdom I suspect I would not have otherwise discovered.

This is a place where people come together and talk about such issues. Where else does this occur in such a productive manner? Message boards like this are appearing all the time. Never in the history of mankind has there been such an incredibly useful and interactive message system.

When people talk and listen in such a way then yes I do believe that such a medium can change the world.

Originally posted by sycoindian
DOJ...

what church do you belong to? just curious.. not gonna use it to make inflammatory comments..

if you dont belong to any specific sect of christianity, are u practising your personal version of christianity?

sorry.. im in a bit of a rush.. i just read snippets of what you'd written.. i'll come back and read all of it...

Greetings Sycoindian -

In response to your question; I belong to a non-denominational, evangelical, Christian Church. The membership is comprised of individuals with Catholic, Lutheran, Pentecostal, Baptist, Buddhist, Islamic and Presbetyrian backgrounds, to name a few that come to mind.

As for what "version" of Christianity we (or I) practice, I'll answer by saying; our beliefs and subsequent practices are based on the non-ceremonial, fundemental teachings of the Gods 'Holy Spirit' inspired Word as found in the Bible (both the KJV & NIV are referrenced), spoken through God's Old Testement Prophets and His Son Jesus Christ (as recorded in the books of the New Testement by the Apostles).

Thanks for asking and I hope that covers it adequetly for you, reply back with any questions you might have.

In His Name -

~ Disciple of Jesus

Originally posted by notPresidentAndrew
The Bible was composed by the Catholic Church, ... That is a remarkably naive statement possessing far more irony than you might imagine.

Originally posted by notPresidentAndrew
The Bible was composed by the Catholic Church, therefore they are the ones who have the right and responsibility of interpreting it (whether you believe or not the Church has this right, not the individual). Do you take the Bible literally? Or do you interpret it? If so, how?


Hello Again nPA -

In response to your post, I encourage you to visit the following (very enlightening and informational) website, written in regard to the history of the Bible.

http://www.greatsite.com/engbibhis/

I'll soon reply to your questions, but for now I have to say goodbye. I will however quickly add that EVERY CHRISTIAN man, through the power of Gods Holy Spirit that dwells within him...has not only the ability, but also the right to interpret the words of the Bible. To believe otherwise is based soley on the teachings of mortal man and has no Biblical validity.

In His Name -

~ Disciple of Jesus

What about Christian Women? Or do they not count? :rolleyes:

Originally posted by Disciple of Jesus
..., I encourage you to visit the following (very enlightening and informational) website, written in regard to the history of the Bible. Actually, the history of the English Bible, occurring a full millenium after the formation of the NT Canon. Don't you bypass a lot of history that way?

Originally posted by Disciple of Jesus
as for great division because of Christians being forbidden to mix with non-Christians, this is not so and here's why.
Jesus (in the NT testament) tells believers not to associate with unbelievers. I can give you a reference if you don't know the passage yourself.

What about Christian Women? Or do they not count? Wo-men are men. Man, (when not dictated other wise) when used as a noun describes the the entire line of descendants, not just a male.I didn't read your entire post before, but I just did. At first it seemed as though you had a point, but you are just another one of those fundies who claims that "Catholics" are not Christians, even though every single last church can trace its roots back to it. This statement is blatantly false, as being part of that religion, I could answer you. How could the "Roman Catholic church" be the root of christianity, when the "Romans" were one of the most well know oppressers of the early church?

Disciple of Jesus,


I was touched by your Faith( rare) Have you heard the prophet of the Laodicean Age- William Marrion Braham

Originally posted by Firefly
Jesus (in the NT testament) tells believers not to associate with unbelievers. I can give you a reference if you don't know the passage yourself.

Can you give me that reference? I know of one, but I want to see if its the same... btw, what does NT stand for?

Originally posted by Lady
Disciple of Jesus,


I was touched by your Faith( rare) Have you heard the prophet of the Laodicean Age- William Marrion Braham

Greetings Lady -

Praise be to God that you are touched by my Faith; as I too have been touched (and blessed) by the Faith of others!

Yes, I have heard of William Marrion Branham although I do not know much about his prophecies. If you would please share a website address I'd be happy to take a look at it. Thank you and may you share in Gods blessings always -

~ Disciple of Jesus

Originally posted by Firefly
Jesus (in the NT testament) tells believers not to associate with unbelievers. I can give you a reference if you don't know the passage yourself.

Hello Firefly -

Sure, I would like to see the Scripture passage that you're referring to. Thanks.

I assure you, the ONLY admonishment that we as Christians are given (in regard to our associations) is to 'not become' like the 'non-Christians' we may associate with. And as I had outlined before, the examples (and there are many) given us by Jesus in His associating with the 'sinners' of the time, was proof of His desire for us to do the same. In closing, I'll leave you with a Scripture verse that reflects what the Christian relationship with the world (and its inhabitants) should be:

"Do not conform any longer to the pattern of this world, but be transformed by the renewing of your mind. Then you will be able to test and approve what Gods will is, His good, pleasing and perfect will." - Romans 12:2

In His Name -

~ Disciple of Jesus

Originally posted by ConsequentAtheist
That is a remarkably naive statement possessing far more irony than you might imagine.

He's right. The bible created the catholic church.

I know of one, but I want to see if its the same... btw, what does NT stand for?
NT stands for New Testament. ;)

The verse I was talking about was 2 Conrinthians 6:17, though I was using Gideons, not KJV. However, according to the online KJV (http://www.ccel.org/bible/kjv/2_Corinthians/6.html) I think the point still stands:
14 Be ye not unequally yoked together with unbelievers: for what fellowship hath righteousness with unrighteousness? and what communion hath light with darkness?

17 Wherefore come out from among them, and be ye separate, saith the Lord, and touch not the unclean thing; and I will receive you.
Is that the one you were thinking of, DoJ?

And a thought on your quoted verse - the "pattern of the world" could be said to be Christianity, as it is apparently the dominant relgion of the world. Secondly, renewing your mind... by considering other religions, perhaps? ;)

Originally posted by williamwbishop
He's right. The bible created the catholic church.

I meant that the Catholic Church selected what books went into the Bible.

And CA, quit spamming everything I said. If you have an arguement to make make it, but quit it with the contemptous replies to everything I say.

http://branham.org



D.O.J




** I have a photo of him on the paranormal thread as well..check out his life story

Originally posted by notPresidentAndrew
I meant that the Catholic Church selected what books went into the Bible. The group that voted on Christian Canon was hardly the same as today's Catholic Church. If you doubt that, look into the history of, e.g., the Coptic Orthodox and Greek Orthodox Church.
Originally posted by notPresidentAndrew
And CA, quit spamming everything I said. If you have an arguement to make make it, but quit it with the contemptous replies to everything I say. What I said was: "That is a remarkably naive statement possessing far more irony than you might imagine." I believe the statement to be accurate.

If you're interested in a good overview of Canon history, you might wish to read The Formation of the New Testament Canon (2000) by Richard Carrier (http://www.infidels.org/library/modern/richard_carrier/NTcanon.html).

Well, yeah, the Church has changed quite a bit over the last 2,000 years.

Originally posted by Firefly
NT stands for New Testament. ;)

The verse I was talking about was 2 Conrinthians 6:17, though I was using Gideons, not KJV. However, according to the online KJV (http://www.ccel.org/bible/kjv/2_Corinthians/6.html) I think the point still stands:

Is that the one you were thinking of, DoJ?


ah, I thought maybe you meant a version....

2 Cor 6:14-18 is much more about marriage (and dating is simply a way to get to marriage) as I previously outlined than just being friends with non-christians............YOKED is the key word there!

How do you know it menas yoked in marriage and not yoked in friendship or by association?

Originally posted by Firefly
How do you know it menas yoked in marriage and not yoked in friendship or by association?

because there are other verses refering to friendship with unbeilevers and being yoked is more than just being friends (friends come and go) , being yoked is being tied to someone for life