Jews believe themselves a Chosen People divinely chosen by God and those who are not Jews are Gentiles meaning heathens .
But this is the covenant which I will make with the house of Israel after those days declares the Lord. I will put My Torah within them, and on their heart I will write it; and I will be their God, and they shall be My people.
Jeremiah 31:31-34:
And God divinely presents real estate to his Chosen People .
And I will give to you and to your descendants after you, the land of your temporary residence, all the land of Canaan as an eternal possession and I will be a God to them.
Genesis 17:8
The Chosen People believe a Jewish Messiah will arise in Israel and he will smite Israels Gentile enemies .
I will raise up a prophet from among their countrymen, like you (Moses), and I will put My words in his mouth, and he shall speak all that I command him. And it shall come about that whoever will not listen to My words which he shall speak in My name, I Myself will require him
Deuterotomy 18:18-19:
The Jewish Messiah can only be Jewish
you may appoint a king over you, whom the Lord your God shall choose: one from among your brethren shall you set as king over you.
Deuteronomy 17:15
He must gather the Jewish people from exile and return them to Israel , in the process evicting and oppressing 5 million Palestinians and making their lives a 5th World hell .
And he shall set up a banner for the nations, and shall assemble the outcasts of Israel, and gather together the dispersed of Judah from the four corners of the earth
Isaiah 11:12
Then the Jewish Messiah will be murdered by the Chosen People themselves.
And after the sixty-two weeks Messiah shall be cut off, but not for himself; and the people of the prince who is to come shall destroy the city and the sanctuary.
Daniel 9:26
The Gentile nations will come against Israel to invade with the sole intention of destroying the Jewish people and the Chosen Peoples God will directly intervene to destroy the Gentile .
For I am with you', says the Lord, 'to save you; though I make a full end of all nations where I have scattered you, yet I will not make a complete end of you.
Jeremiah 30:11
God will then judge the nations depending upon their treatment of the the Chosen People .
In those days and at that time, when I restore the fortunes of Judah and Jerusalem, I will gather all nations and bring them down to the Valley of Jehoshaphat. There I will enter into judgment against them concerning my inheritance, my people Israel, for they scattered my people among the nations and divided up my land.
Joel 1:1-2
The Jews as the chosen people will then rule the world and we Gentiles will serve the Jews .
Foreigners will rebuild your walls, and their kings will serve you.
Isaiah 60:10
Ant the Gentiles will financially pay for it , of course , the funny thing is we are at the moment paying for Israel , so whats new ?
Your gates will always stand open, they will never be shut, day or night , so that men may bring you the wealth of the nations , their kings led in triumphal procession.
Isaiah 60:11
And those of us Gentiles who refuse this servitude to the Chosen People will be smitten down and condemned to eternally damnation .
For the nation or kingdom that will not serve you will perish; it will be utterly ruined.
Isaiah 60:12
And seeing we are in the Chosen Peoples eyes guilty for our Fathers sins we will have to bow down at the Chosen Peoples feet apologize and praise them !
The sons of your oppressors will come bowing before you; all who despise you will bow down at your feet and will call you the City of the LORD, Zion of the Holy One of Israel.
Isaiah 60:14

I believe this religion should have these offensive verses removed from their holy books , afterall the Chosen People themselves are succeeding in having this verse removed from Christian books .
When Pilate saw that he was not succeeding at all, but that a riot was breaking out instead, he took water and washed his hands in the sight of the crowd, saying, "I am innocent of this man's blood. Look to it yourselves. And the whole people said in reply, "His blood be upon us and upon our children.
Matthew27: 24-25

Again, Jews are not a race, Foley. One would have thought you'd learned that, at least.

Geoff

How can that be "racist" if Judaism is not a race? It is more of a "religious supremacy ideology", which is found in pretty much every religion, as usually people of one faith think that thier beliefs are right and another's is not. It's not really an uncommon or unique phenomenon among religions.

What of the 12 tribes of Israel, and their descendants?

I was under the impression that only a person with a Jewish mother can be real Jewish. I know there are some Jewish sects who allow others to convert, but I thought the majority of Jews believe in Jews by ancestry.

If Jews aren't a race, then what are people of Jewish ancestry(from Judah, son of Israel, son of Isaac, son of Abraham) classified as?

Peace.

You realize the whole "son of abraham, 12 tribes" thing is religous bullcrap, just like the flood and jesus, right?
Since that is nothing but religous bullcrap, there is no real Jewish race. There are middle-easter people who are of the Jewish religion, but there isn't a jewish ethnic group.

What of the 12 tribes of Israel, and their descendants?

I was under the impression that only a person with a Jewish mother can be real Jewish. I know there are some Jewish sects who allow others to convert, but I thought the majority of Jews believe in Jews by ancestry.

This argument has been dealt with already.

It's strange - when you post hatred of Jews, you claim they're not a race, so you can't be accused of racism. Then you claim they are a race, so you can accuse them of racism. Make up your mind.

Geoff

"Race" is usually defined as peoples who belong to the same genetic stock, however in biology it can also be defined as a taxonomic group isolated geographically as a division within a species.

Well, it's true that's a use for the term.

So, then, can anti-Jewishness be considered racism, Diamond?

Geoff

Again, Jews are not a race, Foley. One would have thought you'd learned that, at least.

Geoff

the KKK isnt a race unto themselves, but they are still racists. what foley is saying is that he thinks the Jews are racists because they believe that they are chosen to the exclusion of all others and that they believe they are a race of chosen people. whether this is true by scientific standards or not is beside the point. Hitler believed his aryan race to be supreme in the same way that foley is describing, but the aryans technically aren't a race either. we all know what happened there.

Again, Jews are not a race, Foley. One would have thought you'd learned that, at least.

Geoff
And here you construct a thread claiming that in fact Jews are a race !
New study finds that you get what you ask for ( http://www.sciforums.com/showthread.php?t=53002)
How can that be "racist" if Judaism is not a race? It is more of a "religious supremacy ideology", which is found in pretty much every religion, as usually people of one faith think that thier beliefs are right and another's is not. It's not really an uncommon or unique phenomenon among religions.
Strange to say but on mountain hares thraed you argued they were a race .
Jewish race myth (http://www.sciforums.com/showthread.php?t=51749&highlight=bronze)
Well, there is a hebrew race, and they still exist. Thier ties to Judaism have been strong enough since the early bronze age that it is sometimes referred to as the "jewish race"

Of course when it suits you they are a race and when it suits the argument like here the Jews become a religion .

Hmmm...

A Jew would be that group of people claiming to have descended from Jacob, therefore genetic stock would be a primary driver here. As well, Jews can be considered a classification of a similar culture and religion (Old Testament/Talmud) divided within society.

Can Jews therefore be considered a race?

The Jews see themselves as a race and a chosen people as well . The passages I quoted read like a supremacist utopia ?

as one of only 3 jewish people on this forum, i will reinform you for the last time, brian foley:

"chosen people" means that the jews have a greater responsibility toward the rest of humanity, to teach them and to be humanitarian above all other groups of people.

if you persist on spreading lies, i will report you every single time you post, and it wont be long before you are banned, im sure.
*reports this thread as inappropriate to the religion forum, as it relates to not religion, but racism.*

as one of only 3 jewish people on this forum, i will reinform you for the last time, brian foley:

"chosen people" means that the jews have a greater responsibility toward the rest of humanity, to teach them and to be humanitarian above all other groups of people.

if you persist on spreading lies, i will report you every single time you post, and it wont be long before you are banned, im sure.
*reports this thread as inappropriate to the religion forum, as it relates to not religion, but racism.*
You are not Jewish you are a liar , you originally claimed you were a Fundamentalist Christian and then later you claimed you were a Jew , you also told me you were American and here you are claiming that you are in fact a Jewish convert who is Turkish . You are a nut please leave me alone .

Todays lesson on working together (http://www.sciforums.com/showthread.php?t=53094&page=1&pp=20 )btw: im a convert, not a jew by heritage. im half turkish, remember?
And further more you added me to your ignore list .

Todays lesson on working together (http://www.sciforums.com/showthread.php?t=53094&page=1&pp=20 )
Brian Foley
This message is hidden because Brian Foley is on your ignore list.

havent read a sweeter thing all day.
It is fairly obvious you have changed your mind about ignoring me and you have gone back to harassing me at every opportunity , and by threatening to report every single one of my posts is evidence of your intention of deliberate harassment .

i am american with turkish heritage.

i was a fundamentalist christian when i was a teenager. you forgot to accuse me of being mormon, which i never claimed but you constantly insist on.

i am a jewish convert. we are called "noahide" jews. look it up, you australian bigot.
while you are at it, why dont you learn to speak english properly, racist fuck? im fucking tired of you sullying the intelligent content on this forum.

i am openly calling for brian foley to be banned.

Strange to say but on mountainhare's thread you argued they were a race .


Of course when it suits you they are a race and when it suits the argument like here the Jews become a religion .
Mountainhare's thread was a while ago. I have since changed my opinion to the one you see today. You see, unlike stubborn antisemites like you, I can see other viewpoints, and think logically, and change my opinions.

Mountainhare's thread was a while ago. I have since changed my opinion to the one you see today. You see, unlike stubborn antisemites like you, I can see other viewpoints, and think logically, and change my opinions.
No it was 2 months ago , and you have just been caught out on contradicting yourself .

i am a jewish convert. we are called "noahide" jews. look it up, you australian bigot.
Yeah suuuuuuuure , and Im Menachim Begins and Golda Meir’s lovechild .
while you are at it, why dont you learn to speak english properly, racist fuck? im fucking tired of you sullying the intelligent content on this forum..
This is rich , grammar advice from a poster who hasn’t have you heard of capital letters .
i am openly calling for brian foley to be banned.
Yeah close you’re eyes and a make a wish , wanker :)

And here you construct a thread claiming that in fact Jews are a race !

Strange to say but on mountain hares thraed you argued they were a race .

Of course when it suits you they are a race and when it suits the argument like here the Jews become a religion .

You utter, utter idiot.

I argued that there was no genetic differentiation between Jewish people - Occidental or Ashkenazim - and Palestinians, and that, in fact, they were not a "race" according to your and hare's definition. That was the entire crux of the argument. Trust you not to understand it, or to lie about your point.

Your real point of course, is that they're a race when it suits you; when you can accuse them of racism, for instance.

Is your hood on too tight?

Ignorant, ignorant arse.

Geoff

And here you construct a thread claiming that in fact Jews are a race !

I really hate to re-post on the same thing but I have to know.

Come on, now: are you really that ignorant about the thread, or are you deliberately misrepresenting me? Come on, for the love of Western civilization, let it be the second thing.

Geoff

No it was 2 months ago , and you have just been caught out on contradicting yourself .
Exactly, it was two whole freakin' months ago. You said it yourself.
I'm not contradicting myself if, since that old thread, I've change my opinion. And, obviously, I have, as indicated by my first response in this thread.
Let me reiterate in case you don't under-fucking-stand:
Judaism is not a race. Arabic palestinians, are an ethnicity. They are the ethnicity of which a lot of people of the Judaic belief system belong to. However, they are not, as you think, a race. Infact, when you think about it, races do not really exist, taxonomically or geographically. Ethnicity does. However, Jews are neither a race nor an ethnicity. They are just a religious culture, in the same manner Catholics have thier own cultural identity based on religious belief, but they are not a race or ethnicity.

You utter, utter idiot.
I argued that there was no genetic differentiation between Jewish people - Occidental or Ashkenazim - and Palestinians, and that, in fact, they were not a "race"

according to your and hare's definition. That was the entire crux of the argument. Trust you not to understand it, or to lie about your point.
Oh Fuck do I have to really start hauling up and searching your crap posts again , well here is one for starters .
Jewish race myth trash, and Khazarian converts (http://www.sciforums.com/showthread.php?t=53039&page=2&pp=20)
However, breeding within a homogenous subpopulation for a good, what? 5000 years? says to me strongly that they are indeed a "race", the term being

admittedly somewhat nebulous.
And here is the other more clear and concise where you actually say the Jews are a race .
Cartoons - bad for your health? ( http://www.sciforums.com/showthread.php?t=51969&page=8&pp=20&highlight=falasha+Jews)
Wrong again. One is offensive to the religious position of muslims - who, as you know, are not a race - and one to the existence of Jews, which are a race.
Oh and both threads are yours .
Your real point of course, is that they're a race when it suits you; when you can accuse them of racism, for instance.
I have always said Jews were nothing more than a religious group I have never said Jews were a race , could you lead me to where I said the Jews were a race ?
Is your hood on too tight?

Ignorant, ignorant arse.

Geoff
Speaking of ignorant arses could you answer my thread do you think those verses are indeed racist .

Exactly, it was two whole freakin' months ago. You said it yourself.
I'm not contradicting myself if, since that old thread, I've change my opinion. And, obviously, I have, as indicated by my first response in this thread.
Yeah sure , I found 2 other quotes from you about the Jews being a race you just got caught out , deal with it.
Let me reiterate in case you don't under-fucking-stand:
I understood clearly , you just didnt count on me using the sciforum search engine .
Judaism is not a race. Arabic palestinians, are an ethnicity. They are the ethnicity of which a lot of people of the Judaic belief system belong to. However, they are not, as you think, a race. Infact, when you think about it, races do not really exist, taxonomically or geographically. Ethnicity does. However, Jews are neither a race nor an ethnicity. They are just a religious culture, in the same manner Catholics have thier own cultural identity based on religious belief, but they are not a race or ethnicity.
What do you think of those verses , that is the subject of the thread are they a racist agenda as in the 21st century concept of racism . Should those verses be expunged from the holy books ?

he is just saying the same thing over and over again. can we get some moderation over here? if you arent going to ban him for not adding to intelligent discourse, at least delete the posts where he just claims the same thing over and over again.

[QUOTE=The Devil Inside]

"chosen people" means that the jews have a greater responsibility toward the rest of humanity, to teach them and to be humanitarian above all other groups of people.

QUOTE]

So these chosen 'humanitarians' are persecuting palestinians why exactly?

By the way, I have a very large extended Jewish family, so this is not racism its genuine question that has always puzzled me since I became aware of the conflict.

the people that are persecuting palestinians are not following the religion of judaism. thats why.

again, i request the banning of brian foley for extreme anti-semitism, and the intentional spreading of disinformation to create animosity toward a specific religion/people.

And here is the other more clear and concise where you actually say the Jews are a race .

Old post. I examined the evidence, changed my mind. "Race" in this manner applies, best case, in the old biological definition. But if you're saying that Jews are now a race so that you can attack them, I'd be happy to hold you to your definition, since you don't seem to be able to hold to any. So now you're a racist, then? You're admitting this?

Speaking of ignorant arses could you answer my thread do you think those verses are indeed racist .

No, they're not. Now could you answer, I don't know, any of my previous points?

Geoff

i truly wish foley ruled the world
master, i await your bidding.

/unsheathed/cocked/primed

i call for brian foley to be banned.

i forgot to post it last hour, so im saying it now TWICE.

ban brian foley.

he is just saying the same thing over and over again. can we get some moderation over here? if you arent going to ban him for not adding to intelligent discourse, at least delete the posts where he just claims the same thing over and over again.

If Foley gets banned then so should all the anti muslim/anti everyone posters, or do you think jews should get special treatment?

there is a difference between hate speech and anti"whatever" speech. brian foley engages in hate speech on a regular basis. he offers nothing of intelligent discourse on this forum.

he should be banned.

I have a better idea:

Let us hang Foley upside down from a tree and beat him until candy comes out.

nah, id just prefer it if he werent here at all. hanging him upside down requires his presence.

please ban brian foley.

besides, the candy that came out of him would taste like ass anyhow.

ban brian foley, please.

[QUOTE=The Devil Inside]By the way, I have a very large extended Jewish family, so this is not racism its genuine question that has always puzzled me since I became aware of the conflict.
Thats why I posted this thraed , I recall that the passion play in Munich Germany had to modify the and take out the blood libel where the Jewish crowd condemns the Messiah . Same thing as Mel Gibsons Christ movie that line waqs taken out .
When Pilate saw that he was not succeeding at all, but that a riot was breaking out instead, he took water and washed his hands in the sight of the crowd, saying, "I am innocent of this man's blood. Look to it yourselves. And the whole people said in reply, "His blood be upon us and upon our children.
Matthew27: 24-25
I can understand especially after WW2 why the Jews would wish that verse censored , its understandable . My point is these verses I listed in the thraed seem very archaic and outdated for our modern world . Regardless of the history of Jewish persecution I cant help but find these verses very extreme .
Old post. I examined the evidence, changed my mind. "Race" in this manner applies, best case, in the old biological definition.
Old post ! you have only been a member here since February ! And that first quote was from 3 weeks ago . Dont crawl out of it , I have PMed Mountainhare to come here and see this climb down .
But if you're saying that Jews are now a race so that you can attack them, I'd be happy to hold you to your definition, since you don't seem to be able to hold to any. So now you're a racist, then? You're admitting this?
Where did i say Jews were a race ? And on this thread I am discussing these verses which I hold to be supremacist ideology .
No, they're not. Now could you answer, I don't know, any of my previous points?
Okay , this from a poster who leads crusades about offensive Islamic verses and blod libels , finds the quotes about chosen people with a divine rod justice eventually ruling the world with all the worlds races serving them is acceptable . I expected you to argue you here , in fact you are running again Geoff , you are just proving and reinforcing my belief that you are just a anti-Arab bigot .
i truly wish foley ruled the world
master, i await your bidding.

/unsheathed/cocked/primed
And Gustav my Friend you will be my righthand , in fact the messiah !

If Foley gets banned then so should all the anti muslim/anti everyone posters, or do you think jews should get special treatment?
This thread is not anti-semitic I was requested by Jewish forum member Zephyr to construct a post on this particular subject .
Australian government 'Flog them' "gas them with the exhaust of your car" (http://www.sciforums.com/showthread.php?t=53363&page=2&pp=20) ALL religions believe they are a chosen people.
Christians dont , Buddhists dont in fact Jews are the only religion that does .Ah Foley, how thou hast fallen. Do some honest research and then try repeating that statement with a straight face. Better yet, start a topic in the religion forum and see how long your assertion stands. :rolleyes:
Simply I would like a discussion on this subject .

if you arent going to ban him
i request the banning of brian foley
i call for brian foley to be banned.
ban brian foley.
he should be banned.
please ban brian foley.
ban brian foley, please.
No one pays any attention to you ! You know you are truly a non-entity on scioforums ! :)

there is a difference between hate speech and anti"whatever" speech. brian foley engages in hate speech on a regular basis. he offers nothing of intelligent discourse on this forum.

he should be banned.

I don't agree, I think it depends what side of fence you sit on, nothing compares to the hate expressed in women inferior thread by Jaybee and the anti muslim vibe is anti muslim threads!!

This thread is not anti-semitic I was requested by Jewish forum member Zephyr to construct a post on this particular subject .

Simply I would like a discussion on this subject .

agreed, I think it is reasonable, especially in light of everyone deconstructing Islam.

I have wondered about this myself and as I say the largest part of my family are Jews. Maybe I should ask them?

Come on Jewish scholars, Diamond Heart (THE most patient tolerant muslim on the planet!) answered MANY MANY questions in the Isalmic threads please pay the courtesy of doing the same here? The 'chosen one ' theme is accurate, please explain it? Devil inside are you able to explain it, maybe you have done so and I missed it? Please direct me to the reply..thank you.

i cant count how many times i have explained the traditional jewish interpretation of the "chosen people" idea.
i dont care to do so anymore.

please ban brian foley, mods.

well can you direct me to the explanation?

Every group wants to believe they're the best.

well can you direct me to the explanation?
He has done it here
"chosen people" means that the jews have a greater responsibility toward the rest of humanity, to teach them and to be humanitarian above all other groups of people.
Yet he wont elaborate with any biblical or Torah verses to validate his approach to this chosen people concept .
Every group wants to believe they're the best.
How about offering up an explanation for these verses , you afterall readily voluteer your opinion on Islamic matters why not here ?

Old post ! you have only been a member here since February ! And that first quote was from 3 weeks ago . Dont crawl out of it , I have PMed Mountainhare to come here and see this climb down .

Yawn...ok. Already clarified what the analysis means. I considered Jews to be a race in the genetic sense before I saw the data, but the data indicates that they are a 'race', best case, in the sense that they're a culturally distinct group with marginal breeding isolation. I was wrong in my assumption about Jewish genetics, but then again I'm not into human genetics. Crawling out of what, exactly?

I'm pleased you noted that I've only been here a little while and already pwning you. :D You big sweetie. I think my membership's from December or November, though. Meh, whatever.

Where did i say Jews were a race ?

On this thread, dipshit. If you want to call those statements racist, then the Jews by definition have to be a race in your argument, since you claim they're excluding anyone not of the Jewish "race".

And then, of course, it follows that your constant belabouring of them is racist. :D Heh - can't have it both ways. Off you go: lick some cane toads before they're all gone.

Okay , this from a poster who leads crusades about offensive Islamic verses and blod libels , finds the quotes about chosen people with a divine rod justice eventually ruling the world with all the worlds races serving them is acceptable . I expected you to argue you here , in fact you are running again Geoff , you are just proving and reinforcing my belief that you are just a anti-Arab bigot .

Actually it proves you can't rub two neurons together. Lemme see...16 million Jews worldwide. Yeah, their world domination is real likely. I can't say I'm too scared. Moreover, it says God will give them all this, not that they should go out and chop off the heads of infidels unless they capitulate or convert. It doesn't say, for example, "strike at the necks of the unbelievers" or mirror the subtle fascist message of Q 2:256. There's a world of difference between the Judaic passages you cited and islam.

Seriously, I fail to see how you can be so dense.

Geoff

Yet he wont elaborate with any biblical or Torah verses to validate his approach to this chosen people concept .

it is a cultural interpretation of the idea of being a "chosen people".

i am not going to offer scriptural justifications because i am done arguing scripture with people on the internet, and i dont wish to seem "holier than thou" on a religious matter. i see all religions as being valid, as do almost all followers of judaism. you do not know a thing about the religion, but you spout your ill concieved opinion on a subforum that you once criticized me for frequenting. hypocrisy, anyone?

no follower of judaism interprets "chosen people" to mean that they are favored above anyone else. if you knew anything about the actual practice of the religion, you would know this. as it is, you only wish to defame the practitioners of any belief other than your own, which is deplorable.

brian foley=bigot.

ban brian foley, please.

Yawn...ok. Already clarified what the analysis means. I considered Jews to be a race in the genetic sense before I saw the data, but the data indicates that they are a 'race', best case, in the sense that they're a culturally distinct group with marginal breeding isolation. I was wrong in my assumption about Jewish genetics, but then again I'm not into human genetics. Crawling out of what, exactly?
So you finally agree with me and mountain that Jews are simply a loose confederation of converts consisting of many different races , nationalities and cultures .
On this thread, dipshit. If you want to call those statements racist, then the Jews by definition have to be a race in your argument, since you claim they're excluding anyone not of the Jewish "race".
No I never said anything of the sort on this thread , I have not said it was racist I said it was a supremacist ideology . Now I would like an explanation why you don’t find these verses offensive .
Moreover, it says God will give them all this, not that they should go out and chop off the heads of infidels unless they capitulate or convert.
God did tell them to take it by force and murder the inhabitants its completely within Exodus 6:2-3 (http://www.christnotes.org/bible.php?q=Exodus+6&ver=kjv ) please read it .
And some more :
God will kill men, have their children smashed, and have their wives raped (Isaiah 13:15-16).
God will punish children for the iniquities of their fathers and distant ancestors (Isaiah 14:21).
God will lay waste to entire cities and make the lands desolate (Jeremiah 4:7).
God will set people, animals, and even plants on fire because of his anger (Jeremiah 7:20).
God will send so much evil that people would rather be dead than suffer (Jeremiah 8:3).
God will give away the property of men, including their wives, to other men (Jeremiah 8:10).
God will kill young men, and their children will die from a famine (Jeremiah 11:22).
God will cause everyone to become drunk so father and son will kill one another (Jeremiah 13:14).
God will not hear the cries of the people or acknowledge their sacrifices (Jeremiah 14:12).
God will make people hungry enough to eat their own children and friends (Jeremiah 19:9).
God will burn entire cities with the inhabitants still inside (Jeremiah 50:32).
God will break people’s bones and knock their teeth out with stones (Lamentations 3:1-16).
God will force fathers and sons to eat each other and scatter their remembrance (Ezekiel 5:10).
God will be comforted by killing everyone with pestilence, plagues, and swords (Ezekiel 5:12-13).
God will lay dead bodies around idols and spread their bones around the alters (Ezekiel 6:5).
God will kill righteous men and forget their good deeds if they ever turn to sin (Ezekiel 18:24).
God will turn daughters into whores and wives into adulterers (Hosea 4:13).
God will kill children when they come out of their mothers’ wombs (Hosea 10:14).
God will tear people apart and devour them like a lion (Hosea 13:8).
God will kill children and unborn fetuses because their parents worship other gods (Hosea 13:16).
God will sell the children of Israel into slavery in a far away land (Joel 3:8).
God will kill inhabitants of entire cities if they have a corrupt government (Micah 3:9-12).
God will consume every living thing from the face of the earth (Zephaniah 1:2-3).
God will send people to steal Jerusalem, rape the women, and enslave the rest (Zechariah 14:2).
God will send plagues on people and animals to rot away tongues and eyes (Zechariah 14:12-15)
It doesn't say, for example, "strike at the necks of the unbelievers" or mirror the subtle fascist message of Q 2:256.
Yes it does ! What examples would you like of Biblical and Torah verses which speak of such actions ? Tell me and I will provide .
Seriously, I fail to see how you can be so dense.
Sounds like to me you are fucked on this thread .
i am not going to offer scriptural justifications because i am done arguing scripture with people on the internet,
Another cop out , you haven’t the mettle to engage me in a debate about religion you are a straw person .

How about offering up an explanation for these verses , you afterall readily voluteer your opinion on Islamic matters why not here ?
As far as I know, Moses said it.

As far as I know, Moses said it.
Moses only wrote up to the first 5 books of Exodus .

Hmmm, it sounds like God is describing a special relationship with these people because they have acted like He wants them to. It's not like the Jews all get together and decide what's in the bible, it was written a long time ago. They can't just change it, either. I mean, we all know ham isn't that bad for you, but many Jews still won't eat it. They do alot of things just because it's traditional.

Most Jews that I know don't have an enflated ego about it, in fact they seem to be the most self-critical people around.

Sure, this passage may seem to justify living in Israel, but it's interpretation may be questioned. In Judaism, there are places where they all debate what things from the Torah mean. I saw it in Yentil.

Moses only wrote up to the first 5 books of Exodus .

it is obvious that you know absolutely nothing on the subject.
exodus is ONE of the books in the torah, the torah is not called "exodus".

from here on out, you should stop pretending to know what you are talking about, and go back to your fucking redneck shed for the daily circle-jerk with cousin jeb and uncle zeke.
might give you incentive not to open your mouth anymore. remember what happened last time you opened it in front of those two?

'nuff said.

mods, will you please ban brian foley?

I saw it in Yentil.

yentil...haha. nice. :D

1) There is no such thing as race.
2) Yes some Jews are racist but so are some Christians and some Muslims.
3) I know some Xians that have converted into Judaism (like The Devil Inside) but I don’t know if the majority of Jews think this is OK or not OK.
4) Also, I know some Baptist (The Taliban of Xianity) that think the Jews are a race AND the chosen people and would be seriously confused to learn a Xian converted into a Jew. They’d simple say the converts aren’t real Jews and ignore any subsequent questioning.

Michael

Racial differences exist, Michael, regardless of whether or not you've been indoctrinated to think they don't. Rather than watching cutesy little adverts regarding white and black kids sharing a hug complete with tinkly sweet background music and forming your opinions based on what makes you feel better, do some bloody research.

no no no no

I think that "race" was a term that had meaning when people that "looked" differently "spoke" differently "ate" different foods, "worshipped" differently, "celebrated" differently etc.. then sure someone would say that those two peoples were of different "races".

For example, pre-WWII it was the norm in America to think that Poles, Germans, French, Italians were all different "races".
Now we don’t think that ….. do we?
The Chinese think China has 54 different "races" of Chinese. Does it?

Is there a racial difference between Germans and French? Between Tibetans and Hong Kong Cantonese?

As a matter of fact some people confuse the term race with religion, geography and nation.
I`m of the Jewish race (confusing religion)
I`m of the Japanese race (confusing nation)
I`m Asian (confusing region)

I told a Japanese once she was Aisan. She said, no I`m not I`m Japanese.

The term “race” had a lot of meaning 200 years ago but not now.

Define "race".
What is it?
How do you measure it?

Lets say there is a Chinese/Indian couple and a African/French couple, whose children marry and have a child who then converts to Judaism. What is that childs race?

Michael

So you finally agree with me and mountain that Jews are simply a loose confederation of converts consisting of many different races , nationalities and cultures .

No, that is incorrect. Occidental and European Jews and Palestinians have very low genetic differentiation. However, this group appears to have stronger genetic differentiation with other groups nearby, including European. The now-falsified "Khazarian Levites have high Y-chromosomal introgression, therefore all Jews are a 'loose confederation of converts' " hypothesis failed of its own merits when it was noted by me that the Levites comprise a tiny percentage of all Jews worldwide - perhaps 1%? The vast majority come from the (landholding) tribe of Judah and to a lesser extent Benjamin, which are not implicated in the above hypothesis.

So, no, I don't agree with you, in any way. Believe me, Foley: agreeing with you is the very last thing a person of intelligence would want to do.

Why is it that you struggle so hard to achieve: nothing?

No I never said anything of the sort on this thread , I have not said it was racist I said it was a supremacist ideology . Now I would like an explanation why you don’t find these verses offensive .

Your argument was that they were racist - ergo you think that the Jews are indeed a race. It seems that you need to convince yourself of your own supposed point: that Jewish people are not a race. I have no idea where you're going in this respect, and I suspect that you have no idea either.

God did tell them to take it by force and murder the inhabitants its completely within Exodus 6:2-3 (http://www.christnotes.org/bible.php?q=Exodus+6&ver=kjv )

And they're still doing this? My understanding was that the present situation arose because local Palestinians got angry over Jewish immigration and failure to submit under sharia. Of course, your position is that it's all the fault of the Jews, because your daddy couldn't wrap his head around the fact that the current troubles began long, long before he arrived and that the Jewish immigrants were responding in kind; long even before he was a glint in the milkman's eye. It's funny how short-term exposure to limited circumstances prejudice views, eh?

Yes it does ! What examples would you like of Biblical and Torah verses which speak of such actions ? Tell me and I will provide .

Provide what you like; then, illustrate how such messages are meant not as historical reference; then, cite how Jewish people are using such passages to justify their actions.

Geoff

Hmmm, it sounds like God is describing a special relationship with these people because they have acted like He wants them to.
The Jews believe only they have a special relationship with God which excludes Gentiles . And the Jews believe their God ends up making these gentiles the slaves ,whilst the Jews rule the world and all the worlds races and nations from their capital in Jerusalem .
It's not like the Jews all get together and decide what's in the bible, it was written a long time ago. They can't just change it, either. I mean, we all know ham isn't that bad for you, but many Jews still won't eat it. They do alot of things just because it's traditional.
Who wrote the Bible God or man ? You talk here as if you actually believe this Bible was written by God himself . The Bible is mainly a rip off from other religions stories such as genesis came from the story of Gilgamesh and samson from the Egyptians .
Most Jews that I know don't have an enflated ego about it, in fact they seem to be the most self-critical people around.
Self critical , could youn give me examples of this self criticism .
Sure, this passage may seem to justify living in Israel, but it's interpretation may be questioned. In Judaism, there are places where they all debate what things from the Torah mean. I saw it in Yentil.
Could you discuss the verses I quoted and tell me what you think of them.

it is obvious that you know absolutely nothing on the subject.
No you have no idea I have and another poster have tried to engage you on this and :
The 'chosen one ' theme is accurate, please explain it? Devil inside are you able to explain it, maybe you have done so and I missed it? Please direct me to the reply..thank you.
Yet he wont elaborate with any biblical or Torah verses to validate his approach to this chosen people concept .
This was your answer :
it is a cultural interpretation of the idea of being a "chosen people".i am not going to offer scriptural justifications because i am done arguing scripture with people on the internet, and i dont wish to seem "holier than thou" on a religious matter.
A cop out , you have no idea how to argue this point , because you have no scripture knowledge , so the matter is closed .
exodus is ONE of the books in the torah, the torah is not called "exodus".
I meant first 6 chapters of the book of the exodus , besides you arent Jewish so why would it bo ther you and secondly before I forget :

Todays lesson on working together (http://www.sciforums.com/showthread.php?t=53094&page=1&pp=20 )
Brian Foley
This message is hidden because Brian Foley is on your ignore list.
Now this will be the last time I answer you .

No, that is incorrect.
No , it is completely a retraction and stand down from your assertion here :
Cartoons - bad for your health? ( http://www.sciforums.com/showthread.php?t=51969&page=8&pp=20&highlight=falasha+Jews)
Wrong again. One is offensive to the religious position of muslims - who, as you know, are not a race - and one to the existence of Jews, which are a race.
So, no, I don't agree with you, in any way. Believe me, Foley: agreeing with you is the very last thing a person of intelligence would want to do.
Plenty here agree with me , there is a concensus here now on sciforums that we a dealing with an idiot called GeoffP .
Why is it that you struggle so hard to achieve: nothing?
I dont think so , on here alone I have accomplished yet again showing you caught out contradicting yourself . I ahve to wait for mountainhare to see this and join in , he is at uni studying , dont worry if ever someone has made himself look a total Arsehole its you .
I have no idea where you're going in this respect, and I suspect that you have no idea either.
I know where its going , once again 7 posts from GeoffP and true to form he has not even touched the verses i quoted in my thraed .
And they're still doing this?
Yeah , how many Palestinians have died since 1948 ?
Provide what you like; then, illustrate how such messages are meant not as historical reference; then, cite how Jewish people are using such passages to justify their actions.
Ahhhh , for starters isnt the Jewish claim to Israel a Biblical claim ? I mean you can read here how Israeli Jews are doing just that .Expert: Judea and Samaria belong to Israel (http://www.jnewswire.com/library/article.php?articleid=293)
Biblical birthright

The Jewish people further trace their right to the land to the Bible, which records Israel’s original settlement of the area in ca. 1500 BC under God’s direction.

In the pages of what is known as the Torah, the Almighty promises all the land from the Jordan River to the Mediterranean Sea to the descendents of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob as a perpetual possession.

Overwhelming archeological evidence attests to millennia of Jewish sovereignty in what is now Israel, the “West Bank”, Gaza and much of Jordan and southern Lebanon.

Yasser Arafat’s Palestinian Authority recently aired an “educational” television program claiming the biblical Hebrews were actually Arabs, that the land was dominated by Islam in biblical times, and that “Canaanite Arabs” built Solomon’s Temple.
Savvy ?

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Firstly, since anyone of any race can become Jewish by conversion, I don't think there is a question of racial discrimination. Instead I'll address the question of religious discrimination.

Of course there are some extreme Jews who see themselves as superior to people of other religions. There are districts in Israel where driving on Saturday (which technically breaks the sabbath) will have your vehicle stoned. Not very friendly.

But is this representative of all Jews? Well...

Is Fred Phelps (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fred_Phelps) representative of all Christians? He created the sites godhatesfags, priestsrapeboys, godhatesamerica, godhatescanada, and godhatessweden (.com). Mmm, sure likes the word 'hate'.

Are Saudi Arabia, a Muslim state which refuses entry into the country to Jews (not Israelis, Jews) and Afghanistan, which enforces the death penalty for anyone converting from Islam (recent news), representative of all Muslims?

(Is Brian Foley representative of Australians? :D Just kidding...)

Unless you have reason to answer 'yes' to any of the above questions, I believe that settles the question of "Judaism=racism?".


Now when I said 'research' I was thinking of something a little more two-sided, but since you've already come up with your view here are some alternative views:
Wiki (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jews_as_a_chosen_people) and some Christian site (http://www.godandscience.org/apologetics/racism.html).

The first link even contains an interesting section on something called 'quote mining'.

No , it is completely a retraction and stand down from your assertion here

Wrong again. I assumed they were; the evidence specifically indicates that they have no genetic divergence from Palestinians, nor between European and non-European Jews. Similar evidence also indicates differentiation between Jews/Palestinians and other groups. I am unconvinced as to whether they are or aren't a race.

Be that as it may, your position is that the above statements are racist. Ergo, you consider the Jews a race specifically when it suits your position or hatred to do so, which is patently ludicrous. If you now consider them a race in order to level the charge of racism against Judaism, then you must now also accept that you are, in fact, a racist.

Plenty here agree with me

Oh? Who? Diamond, the resident hack-and-slash queen? I assure you, her rabid homophobia and islamic supremacist stance - coupled with the fact that she just did a runner from the site - doesn't impugn her believability at all. Not a bit. ;) Or is this like the mythical "other sites" you said you'd heard about me on? (And are you ever going to illustrate which ones?)

I ahve to wait for mountainhare to see this and join in , he is at uni studying

Dumbass, I'm at uni teaching, and I can still write in. Or maybe mountain doesn't back you any more?

I know where its going , once again 7 posts from GeoffP and true to form he has not even touched the verses i quoted in my thraed .

You have no idea where it's going, and I already responded to them. Sad.

Ahhhh , for starters isnt the Jewish claim to Israel a Biblical claim ? I mean you can read here how Israeli Jews are doing just that .

And they didn't try to take it over militarily; they came in peacefully and refused to submit. How's that have anything to do with their religion?

Geoff

The Jews believe only they have a special relationship with God which excludes Gentiles .
I thought every group, religion or club excludes others by definition.


And the Jews believe their God ends up making these gentiles the slaves ,whilst the Jews rule the world and all the worlds races and nations from their capital in Jerusalem .
But it doesn't tell them to do it, just that God will favor them.

Who wrote the Bible God or man ? You talk here as if you actually believe this Bible was written by God himself . The Bible is mainly a rip off from other religions stories such as genesis came from the story of Gilgamesh and samson from the Egyptians .
I know, dude. But religious people feel that it was devinely inspired. Whatever it's origin, it is not the tradition to change it, only reinterpret it. The old testament also tells people to stone adulterers to death, but this is not popular nowadays.

Self critical , could you give me examples of this self criticism .
Every watch Seinfeld? ...or anything by Woody Allen?

Could you discuss the verses I quoted and tell me what you think of them.
I thought I was.

Yasser Arafat’s Palestinian Authority recently aired an “educational” television program claiming the biblical Hebrews were actually Arabs, that the land was dominated by Islam in biblical times, and that “Canaanite Arabs” built Solomon’s Temple.

That Yasser - always good for a laugh.

Seriously, Brian, find those sites yet? Get looking.

Geoff

Moses only wrote up to the first 5 books of Exodus.

*************
M*W: What you stated is confusing. What do you mean by your statement? What first five books are you talking about? Are you referring to "the Exodus out of Egypt?" Also, please provide some scholarly references to you statements.

There are districts in Israel where driving on Saturday (which technically breaks the sabbath) will have your vehicle stoned. Not very friendly.

I've driven through those areas.

These ugly children, with long sideburns will throw small rocks and yell at anything that moves... not enough to break windows, but it sure is annoying.

Yeah sure , I found 2 other quotes from you about the Jews being a race you just got caught out , deal with it.
And you just simply ignore anything anyone else says. Like I said, retard, I changed my opinion on the matter inbetween that two-month-old thread and this one. Perhaps you have a hard time understanding the concept that people have the ability to change thier opinions. Oh, wait, that's probably because you never do. You never listen to reason or any other people, only you misguided antisemitic view.

What do you think of those verses , that is the subject of the thread are they a racist agenda as in the 21st century concept of racism . Should those verses be expunged from the holy books ?
What holy books? To me, they are just storybooks, seeing as god does not exist and everything in the bible is bullcrap.

Unless you have reason to answer 'yes' to any of the above questions, I believe that settles the question of "Judaism=racism?".
No it really hasn’t I would like a discussion on the points and verses I raised in the thread and explained why none would constitute supremicism .
Now when I said 'research' I was thinking of something a little more two-sided, but since you've already come up with your view here are some alternative views:
Thank you but none are applicable to this thread , you asked me to author , but I woulds like a more indepth answer on those verses .
Wrong again…………….
Shut Up you Fucking clown more Bullshit cant you argue straight .
Oh? Who?
Gustav , mountain , spurious , diamond , Neildo plenty ! I have already pointed out the quote from another poster concerning your other forums , I wouldn’t waste time tracking you down , you are a wanker .
Dumbass, I'm at uni teaching, and I can still write in. Or maybe mountain doesn't back you any more?
Don’t worry cup cake I gotta show him this , you climbing down and being caught out contradicting yourself .
You have no idea where it's going, and I already responded to them.
Where I for the life of cannot find anywhere on this thread where you have addressed one verse .
And they didn't try to take it over militarily; they came in peacefully and refused to submit. How's that have anything to do with their religion?
Don’t avoid answering this question you clearly asked me in the last post where Jews have used Biblical dogma to justify their actions .
I thought every group, religion or club does this by definition
Which religious groups practice the same chosen people beliefs .
I know, dude. But religious people feel that it was devinely inspired. Whatever it's origin, it is not the tradition to change it, only reinterpret it. The old testament also tells people to stone adulterers to death, but this is not popular nowadays.
We were discussing the validity of the Bible and the beliefs associated with it , if the Bible was not divinely inspired then this must be a human concotion with supremacist overtones .

I would like it if you could lead me to a more serious Jewish critic of Judaism .
I thought I was.
You could statrt by explaining each verse or some of the verses as to why they are not racist .
M*W: What you stated is confusing.
Yeah it was confusing Im sorry , I had 2 differnet lines going and got a little ahead of myself I will clarify it here .
What do you mean by your statement?
Spidergoat said Moses wrote some I just enjoined .
What first five books are you talking about?
The 1st 5 books of the Bible which is known as the Pentateuch authoured by Moses .
Are you referring to "the Exodus out of Egypt?"
I was quoting the Exodus chapter 6 as an example of Gods bloodthirst .
Also, please provide some scholarly references to you statements.
.Pentateuch (http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/11646c.htm)

Yasser Arafat’s Palestinian Authority recently aired an “educational” television program claiming the biblical Hebrews were actually Arabs, that the land was dominated by Islam in biblical times, and that “Canaanite Arabs” built Solomon’s Temple.
That Yasser - always good for a laugh.

Seriously, Brian, find those sites yet? Get looking.

Geoff
Back the FUCK UP HERE !!!!!!!!! I demand you show where I said this !
I never said that , you have deliberately concocted a misleading quote , attached my name to this quote .

What I meant, Brian, is that every group by definition has exclusivity. This doesn't automatically lead to hatred of outsiders, but that is a danger. It doesn't say that you must hate anyone who isn't jewish, quite the opposite, in fact. Taken out of context, one could probably derive a racist ideology from it, but like Muslims, Jews as a whole are not a race. I didn't read in any of those passages the words "chosen people". I think most Jews are critics of their own religious texts, in fact this criticism is an institution in Judaism.

On this thread, dipshit. If you want to call those statements racist, then the Jews by definition have to be a race in your argument, since you claim they're excluding anyone not of the Jewish "race".
Geoff

so what you're basically saying is that its totally ok to be exclusive and discriminatory if your basis is creed and not race? youre arguing foolish fucking semantics, both you and foley. the point is its still detrimental to the world to hold this view, whether its held by a jew, a muslim, a christian, or an atheist, an american, a chinese person, or a kurd. it doesnt matter. the problem for me is that i think that jews, as far as i have experienced, place the neeeds of other jews above those of other people, often champion strictly jewish causes, and here's the kicker - are one of the only ethnic groups in the world who have demanded and won their own ethnic homeland, even if they did have to steal it from someone else. so you can prattle on uselessly about what race is and isnt, the bottom line is that whatever it is, it sucks and its bad for the world, and jews accuse other people of it all the time, but then balk when it comes to a little self-examination of their own actions and those of their community.

And you just simply ignore anything anyone else says. Like I said, retard, I changed my opinion on the matter inbetween that two-month-old thread and this one. Perhaps you have a hard time understanding the concept that people have the ability to change thier opinions. Oh, wait, that's probably because you never do. You never listen to reason or any other people, only you misguided antisemitic view.
Your first answer on here was that Jews were not a race yet on other threads you clearly stated that in fact Jews were a race . You in no way indicated in your answer on this thread straight up that you had changed your opinion on this matter . You were simply caught out contradicting yourself end of story .
What holy books? To me, they are just storybooks, seeing as god does not exist and everything in the bible is bullcrap.
Tell someone who cares .
What I meant, Brian, is that every group by definition has exclusivity. This doesn't automatically lead to hatred of outsiders, but that is a danger. It doesn't say that you must hate anyone who isn't jewish, quite the opposite, in fact.
Now we are getting somewhere , I personally believe the religious triangle of Christianity/Islam and Judaism are the most intolerant .
Taken out of context, one could probably derive a racist ideology from it, but like Muslims, Jews as a whole are not a race.
It does not matter here that the Jews are not a race we all know that they are simply a religious group , but the Jews do see themselves as a race .
I didn't read in any of those passages the words "chosen people". I think most Jews are critics of their own religious texts, in fact this criticism is an institution in Judaism.
The Jews refer to themselves as the Chosen people , the verses I listed refers to extreme cases of supremacism . As for critics I believe they are more discerners over interpretation .
youre arguing foolish fucking semantics, both you and foley
I simply constructed a thread on this subject because Zephyr a Jewish poster asked me to , I in no way am using any wordplay here I simply want these verses discussed and would like some answers from posters here who have no hesitation in highlighting extreme tracts from the Koran . Fair enough .

What you have said is true,

but the koran says the same shit
and I don't see you complaining Brian

Could it be you have double standards?

I simply constructed a thread on this subject because Zephyr a Jewish poster asked me to , I in no way am using any wordplay here I simply want these verses discussed and would like some answers from posters here who have no hesitation in highlighting extreme tracts from the Koran . Fair enough .

yeah man, it wasn't a criticism. i guess the point is that who cares, racism or not, what you call it doesn't matter because that doesn't alter the fact that its discriminatory and terrible.

Shut Up you Fucking clown more Bullshit cant you argue straight .

Awww, widda Foley all tired out. You need a nap.

Gustav , mountain , spurious , diamond , Neildo plenty ! I have already pointed out the quote from another poster concerning your other forums

Where, sheepdip? Where? This is pathetic. I'm not surprised Diamond - remember, the murderously homophobic wanna-be athiest hacker - is on side with you; I've settled my issues with mountain and if the rest actually disagree with me they could take issue with me themselves. Somehow I doubt the saner members of that group actually authorized you to be their spokesmonkey.

Don’t worry cup cake I gotta show him this , you climbing down and being caught out contradicting yourself .

Where I for the life of cannot find anywhere on this thread where you have addressed one verse .

No, I just addressed them en masse.

Don’t avoid answering this question you clearly asked me in the last post where Jews have used Biblical dogma to justify their actions .

Oh? And if the response to their arrival had been less violent, would the association have even had come up? Seriously.

Which religious groups practice the same chosen people beliefs .

All the Abrahamic ones.

Again, if you're arguing that those verses are racist, then that means that since the exclusion being made is Jews/non-Jews, that you're simultaneously saying that the Jews are actually a race. If so, then your criticisms of them are also racist.

Deal with it.

Back the FUCK UP HERE !!!!!!!!! I demand you show where I said this !
I never said that , you have deliberately concocted a misleading quote , attached my name to this quote .

Aww, Bwian need nap again? Easy, old timer - I should have specified that the quote therein was merely a supremacist citation with which you happen to fervently agree, and not something you'd be smart enough to write yourself. OK? All better? So sorry.

Geoff

so what you're basically saying is that its totally ok to be exclusive and discriminatory if your basis is creed and not race?

Not even close.

youre arguing foolish fucking semantics, both you and foley. the point is its still detrimental to the world to hold this view, whether its held by a jew, a muslim, a christian, or an atheist, an american, a chinese person, or a kurd. it doesnt matter. the problem for me is that i think that jews, as far as i have experienced, place the neeeds of other jews above those of other people, often champion strictly jewish causes, and here's the kicker - are one of the only ethnic groups in the world who have demanded and won their own ethnic homeland, even if they did have to steal it from someone else.

Semantics? Maybe.

But first off, although I can't speak to your experience, it isn't mine.

Second off, let's assume that perspective is true, and let's then put that perspective in perspective:

two thousand years of miserable, second-class treatment from Christian and islamic society at best, and before that, joy of joys: Roman domination.

fifty years ago, a lunatic backed by the most powerful nation in Europe tried to exterminate them all, and killed about six frigging million of them.

Sixteen million Jews, 2.1 billion Christians, 1.2 billion muslims in the world today, with overt hatred spewed at them from every mosque in the world, the echoes of the utterly ludicrous claim "Christ-killers" still resounding down through the ages, and a middle-aged reject from Cairns trying to indict them for the writings of a holy book that they don't follow explicitly - unless you've seen Israelis stoning any homosexuals to death lately?

And you wonder what right or reason they might have to be insular, or aloof?

jews accuse other people of it all the time, but then balk when it comes to a little self-examination of their own actions and those of their community.

But they don't. There are Jews all over who disagree strongly with Zionism, and with religious Zionism.

And assuming they actually are as insular as you say, why in hell would we require them to be otherwise? Can't they be as interested or disinterested in world affairs as you or I? Can't they have that right as individuals? Did you give any money to tsunami relief? How about New Orleans? Hiroshima? Chernobyl? Did you recognize Disabled Gay Inuit week? Why or why not? Do you belong to any groups that might or might not have done the same, or different? Are you a filthy Rotarian? How can we best categorize your failure to act - or your actions?

There are 16 million Jews in the entire world, and we somehow need them to pitch in for - what? Anything? Somehow the world's going to miss those 16 million donations against the over 6 billion that didn't fork over either?

Sixteen million people. For fuck's sakes, be the good whatever-the-hell-it-is- you're-pretending-at and leave them be.

Geoff

Semantics? Maybe.

But first off, although I can't speak to your experience, it isn't mine.

Second off, let's assume that perspective is true, and let's then put that perspective in perspective:

two thousand years of miserable, second-class treatment from Christian and islamic society at best, and before that, joy of joys: Roman domination.

the romans dominated the land of half of the countries in existence right now and destroyed whole cultures, the jews got off pretty sweet under roman rule. muslims killed and persecuted a lot of christians in their lands despite official tolerance of the sect, and lets also not even mention what most early christians went through at the hands of the romans. the point here is - get over it, everyone else has.

fifty years ago, a lunatic backed by the most powerful nation in Europe tried to exterminate them all, and killed about six frigging million of them.

right, genocide has only ever happened to the jews. forget about what stalin did to his own people, the kurds, rwandan genocide... its all inconsequential compared to what the jews went through, i know.

Sixteen million Jews, 2.1 billion Christians, 1.2 billion muslims in the world today, with overt hatred spewed at them from every mosque in the world, the echoes of the utterly ludicrous claim "Christ-killers" still resounding down through the ages, and a middle-aged reject from Cairns trying to indict them for the writings of a holy book that they don't follow explicitly - unless you've seen Israelis stoning any homosexuals to death lately?

have you seen any israelis bulldozing palestinian homes? killing kids for being out after curfew? hmmm i wonder why the islamic world doesn't like them. also, please dont act like the christ-killers thing has any credibility among anyone but some extreme christian minority or some neo-nazi retards.


And you wonder what right or reason they might have to be insular, or aloof?

oh, so now being god's chosen people and excluding everyone else in the world that isnt a jew is just "standoffishness". interesting.



But they don't. There are Jews all over who disagree strongly with Zionism, and with religious Zionism.

and there are lots who support it. if not with lip service, then with money.

right, genocide has only ever happened to the jews. forget about what stalin did to his own people, the kurds, rwandan genocide... its all inconsequential compared to what the jews went through, i know.
1. The kurds and tutsis I get, but what Stalin did was not genocide. He wasn't trying to destroy an ethnic or religious group. He was trying to consolidate his own power. Granted, he killed far more than either genocides, but his intent was not as sinister and vile as the those big genocides.

2. I'm guessing it is the sheer number of people killed in the Holocaust that makes it more of a stark reminder of the illogical insanity of genocide. Twelve and a half million people compared to the 900,000 dead in the Rwandan Genocide, and 50,000 Kurds killed in the Anfal Campaign. That's a 1250:90:5 ratio there.

Hapsburg, you can reduce that ratio:
250:18:1

Yeah, but 1250 seems more impacting than 250, what with it being a 4-digit number.
Besides, I'm not good at reductions. Fuckin' hate math...

What you have said is true,
I know .
but the koran says the same shit
Could you show me where in the Koran it claims moslems are a chosen people ? I would be very interested , and besides what stopping yo8u doing such a thraed .
and I don't see you complaining Brian
Complain about what ?
Could it be you have double standards?
I was requested by a Jewish poster to do this thread .
yeah man, it wasn't a criticism. i guess the point is that who cares, racism or not, what you call it doesn't matter because that doesn't alter the fact that its discriminatory and terrible.
What gets me here is those who pounce all over the Koran and even Christians completely change and become defensive and apologetic when the Jewish Torah is examined . the verses I quoted need simple answers yet the critics of my thraed seem determined to make this into a race vs religious group thread .
No, I just addressed them en masse.
Im sorry I missed where on this thread you addressed those quotes en masse , could you go over them again .
Oh? And if the response to their arrival had been less violent, would the association have even had come up? Seriously.
Sorry you are again avoiding the line of debate Here you said very clearly . Provide what you like; then, illustrate how such messages are meant not as historical reference; then, cite how Jewish people are using such passages to justify their actions.
And I gave this answer : Ahhhh , for starters isnt the Jewish claim to Israel a Biblical claim ? I mean you can read here how Israeli Jews are doing just that .
Now could I have a straight answer .
All the Abrahamic ones.
OK show me verses from the Koran and the New Testament which corroborate this claim .
Again, if you're arguing that those verses are racist,
Again making things up , I said the quotes were offensive .
Aww, Bwian need nap again? Easy, old timer - I should have specified that the quote therein was merely a supremacist citation with which you happen to fervently agree, and not something you'd be smart enough to write yourself. OK? All better? So sorry.
Christ this guy seriously cant be a University professor , Jesus what a total wanker your students must think of you . I mean you are totally thick no better yet dim witted is a more apt description , once again 8 posts from GeoffP and he still hasnt even touched the subject of the thraed .

I was requested by a Jewish poster to do this thread

there are 3 jewish folks on this forum that i know of. i have spoken intensively with one of them, and im pretty positive it wasnt him..


so in fact, you are spreading lies again..im QUITE positive of that.

get a life, brian fuhrer.

please ban brian foley.

Just so the rest of you understand Zephyr who I believe is a South African Jew requested I do this thread . Australian government 'Flog them' "gas them with the exhaust of your car" (http://www.sciforums.com/showthread.php?t=53363&page=2&pp=20) ALL religions believe they are a chosen people.
Christians dont , Buddhists dont in fact Jews are the only religion that does .Ah Foley, how thou hast fallen. Do some honest research and then try repeating that statement with a straight face. Better yet, start a topic in the religion forum and see how long your assertion stands. :rolleyes:

please ban brian foley.

This was your assertion:

Christians dont , Buddhists dont in fact Jews are the only religion that does .

This (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chosen_people) is why I think it doesn't hold.

This (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Quote_mining) is why I don't think I need to respond to your quotes; I dislike the strategy whomever its target. At my university there are Christian, Jewish, Muslim and other students who have no difficulty getting along with one another. Selecting verses from the bible or quran in an attempt to discredit an entire religion is sick.

the romans dominated the land of half of the countries in existence right now and destroyed whole cultures, the jews got off pretty sweet under roman rule. muslims killed and persecuted a lot of christians in their lands despite official tolerance of the sect, and lets also not even mention what most early christians went through at the hands of the romans. the point here is - get over it, everyone else has.

By all means, pick one unpleasantness out of the pile and attack it in order to discredit the rest.

right, genocide has only ever happened to the jews. forget about what stalin did to his own people, the kurds, rwandan genocide... its all inconsequential compared to what the jews went through, i know.

Holy hell, man - proportionally there are, again, how many Jewish people in the world? And how many of them were murdered? What percent would that be?

have you seen any israelis bulldozing palestinian homes? killing kids for being out after curfew? hmmm i wonder why the islamic world doesn't like them. also, please dont act like the christ-killers thing has any credibility among anyone but some extreme christian minority or some neo-nazi retards.

For a long time the Christ-killer "thing" was very, very much in vogue among the masses. Say about 2000 years give or take?

And as for the other accusations, have you wondered why the homes get bulldozed and why the kids always show up to throw rocks? Anything to do with shaheedism, say?

oh, so now being god's chosen people and excluding everyone else in the world that isnt a jew is just "standoffishness". interesting.

As mountain would say: red herring. Being or not being God's "chosen people" has nothing whatever to do with Jewish people being "standoffish". If they are the latter at all, it seems pretty clear to me they learned it from about 2000 years of being treated like shit by the other two so-called "Abrahamic" religions. Or do you think that that lovely dark period, when they could be robbed and tortured and extorted almost at will by the kindness of Christians and muslims around them on all sides, pressing ever inward, should have taught them trust for people outside their community? They're people too, you know, not bloody automatons.

if not with lip service, then with money.

And so support for Israel means inherent support for Zionism? Must I remind you who just won the Israeli elections?

Geoff

Could you show me where in the Koran it claims moslems are a chosen people ? I would be very interested , and besides what stopping yo8u doing such a thraed .

Off the top of my head, how about "theirs is the abode of hell", or "they abandon light for darkness"? Seriously, not even you could be that stupid on your best day.

What gets me here is those who pounce all over the Koran and even Christians completely change and become defensive and apologetic when the Jewish Torah is examined .

Well, zippy, it's a question of usage. Christians and Jews don't go around killing nonbelievers any more, for starters: a couple of little somethings we call the Reformation and the Renaissance. I think most Christians today - except, perhaps, yourself - have refuted those verses. It's that simple. It's when you start referring constantly to a book and a religion as being "utterly perfect" and the "way for all humans forever" and a mad bandit as being the "al-insan al-kamil, the perfect man" that people like me pounce.

the verses I quoted need simple answers yet the critics of my thraed seem determined to make this into a race vs religious group thread .

Again, no. Are you a troll? You cited racial distinctions in your argument. You. Ergo, you turned it into a racial argument yourself.

Im sorry I missed where on this thread you addressed those quotes en masse , could you go over them again .

Sure. My response to your question was: no. You're welcome.

Now could I have a straight answer .

I gave one. Can you?

OK show me verses from the Koran and the New Testament which corroborate this claim .

They're well enough known that I don't need to bother, thanks. You lose.

Again making things up , I said the quotes were offensive .

Did you go back and edit your post? :D

Christ this guy seriously cant be a University professor

Honestly, Foley, I can't imagine where I'd begin to care what you think.

Geoff

please ban brian foley.
Just ignore. Besides, I think it's against the rules to say that. I was banned once for it.

In the strictest sense, Brian, you could say some aspects of Judaism are racist, as far as;1: the prejudice that members of one race are intrinsically superior to members of other races.

However, as far as: 2: discriminatory or abusive behavior towards members of another race, I think the Jews are especially sensitive to this, based on being the victims of racism in the past.

I think I know your concern about this in relation to Israel and the Palestinians, but that prejudice is based more on experience than ideology.

[QUOTE=Brian Foley] Yeah it was confusing Im sorry, I had 2 differnet lines going and got a little ahead of myself I will clarify it here .

Spidergoat said Moses wrote some I just enjoined .

The 1st 5 books of the Bible which is known as the Pentateuch authoured by Moses .

I was quoting the Exodus chapter 6 as an example of Gods bloodthirst .

*************
M*W: Recent biblical scholorship would indicate that Moses never existed and the Exodus never happened. Even I, formerly, was a student of Moses' comings and goings, but later learned that Moses was just another name for another hero in history called Sargon, and the Ten Commandments were plagarized from the Code of Hammurabi. Genesis had at least three authors (all Egyptian), and the 'Pentateuch' doesn't really mean the first five books of the bible. Job was the oldest book written as a play and not Genesis as the story of creation. In fact, Noah's Flood was plagarized from the earlier Flood of Gilgemesh. The Flood stories were to have taken place prior to the myths of A&E in the GoE. And for the record, both the old and new testaments are so embedded in Egyptian astrotheology that they are nothing more than ancient astrological calendars referencing animals like rams, lambs, fish; elements like rain, wind, fire and air; numbers like 3 Mary's, 3 Magi, the trinity, 3 days Jonah was in the belly of a whale, 3 days between crucifixion and resurrection (an impossibility, I might add); 7 days in a week, 7th son(sun) of the 7th son(sun), 12 days of Christmas, 12 apostles, 12 months in a year, Mary was age 12 when she was impregnated, 12 tribes, and Jesus was age 12 when he was found at the temple; 30 days in a month, Jesus was 30 years when his ministry began, there are 30 degrees in every astrological sign; 40 days it rained, 40 days and nights Jesus prayed in the desert, Moses spent 40 years in the desert, and Jesus ascended on the 40th day; 144 (12x12) means wholly, entirely, and the alpha and the omega -- the entire orbit around the zodiac.

Moses has been ruled scholarly out as having written about his own death. The whole aura of the 'Pentateuch' reeks of Egyptian culture. The ancient Hebrews (Abiru) were Egyptian, and there is a very fine line between Egyptians and Jews (but don't tell them I said that!). The only true difference between Jews and Arabs is their holy books and land holdings. Genetically, they're the same. In fact, we all may be Egyptian offshoots.

All I'm saying is don't credit some guy named 'Moses' (there were quite a few of them in the 18 Dynasty alone, and 'Moses' isn't a name, it's a pharaonic title, and there were multitudes of Moseses in Memphis.

The actual chronology of the books of the bible were NOT, repeat NOT written in the order they appear in the bible. Just like the gospels, the earliest one written was Mark (Mars) circa 70 AD not Matthew (Ma'at or Mithras). Just for the record, Luke (Lucifer) and John (Oannes), Thomas (Tammuz), Peter (Ju-Peter), Paul (Apollo), for starters.

I have to run now, or I could go on forever, but I do look forward to your response.

This was your assertion:
Which was to JamesR which he asked of me , and you enjoined and requested I do this thread , so stop attempting to make out I deliberately authored an extremist thread .

Your first link about the Chosen People points out only 2 minority Christian Groups The Mormons and Seventh Day Adventists see themselves as a chosen people , these 2 groups hardly represent Christianity and are on the fringe . Nowhere does your link provide quotes concerning the Koran or the Christian nor the Hindu beliefs only to say that there are segments of opinions that consider themselves chosen , but not based on scriptural evidence . More importantly this link has the included the Nazi master race concept alongside the Jewish chosen people concept , so do you think this chosen people concept has supremacist overtones ?
This is why I don't think I need to respond to your quotes; I dislike the strategy whomever its target. At my university there are Christian, Jewish, Muslim and other students who have no difficulty getting along with one another. Selecting verses from the bible or quran in an attempt to discredit an entire religion is sick.
As for this 2nd link , I can only accept that as other than a cop out by you yourself , simply to make out I am simply singling out Jews and selectively taking quotes out of context from the bible to arrive at a skewered viewpoint that reinforces a point of view . You asked me to do this thread concerning this subject and I have complied , I even PMed you to come here and enjoin this debate . I appreciate your points , but you are really avoiding answering the quotes and whether they are offensive or not , and I would like it very much if you could address these quotes and provide an answer as to whether these quotes are indeed offensive and provoke the kind of ideological excess’s common to Zionism against other human beings , that is what is sick .

Off the top of my head, how about "theirs is the abode of hell", or "they abandon light for darkness"? Seriously, not even you could be that stupid on your best day.
Look , it is once again obvious you are simply going to proceed with this same type of divertive debate you display on every other thread you enjoin . You deliberately avoid directly answering any questions and bring in superfluous points to draw away from any conclusive end related to this thread . You have provided 12 answers on this thread none and I mean none have addressed any point this thread . Until you do I wont waste any more time answering any of your posts on this particular thread .

Just ignore. Besides, I think it's against the rules to say that. I was banned once for it.
The wonderful world of fantasy did thankfully put me on his ignore list .

Todays lesson on working together (http://www.sciforums.com/showthread.php?t=53094&page=1&pp=20 )
Brian Foley
This message is hidden because Brian Foley is on your ignore list.
Unfortunately he has decided to go back to stalking me ………yay
In the strictest sense, Brian, you could say some aspects of Judaism are racist, as far as;1: the prejudice that members of one race are intrinsically superior to members of other races.
Racist or better supremacist .
However, as far as: 2: discriminatory or abusive behavior towards members of another race, I think the Jews are especially sensitive to this, based on being the victims of racism in the past.
I said that over the Holocaust and the Jewish community wanting to delete ceratin passages from Matthew concerning Christs crucifixion and the blood curse being understandable .
I think I know your concern about this in relation to Israel and the Palestinians, but that prejudice is based more on experience than ideology.

Zionism is an ideology , in fact Jews never entertained returning to Israel , it became a facet during the European empire and colonization days of the 19th century . Nowhere does the Torah mention returning to that land until the Messiah comes . that fact is that Zionist have given The Chosen people a newer and more sinister meaning , namely because Zionism has created victims in the Palestinians .

M*W: Recent biblical scholorship would indicate that Moses never existed and the Exodus never happened. Even I, formerly, was a student of Moses' comings and goings, but later learned that Moses was just another name for another hero in history called Sargon, and the Ten Commandments were plagarized from the Code of Hammurabi. Genesis had at least three authors (all Egyptian), and the 'Pentateuch' doesn't really mean the first five books of the bible. Job was the oldest book written as a play and not Genesis as the story of creation. In fact, Noah's Flood was plagarized from the earlier Flood of Gilgemesh.
I clearly see your point , concerning the Bible , this work is nothing more than a concoction of man , Stories as you pointed out such as Samson did indeed derive from Egyptian folklore and more importantly the Story of Gilgamesh which I did a post on here last year is what the Genesis of the Bible has directly ripped off .
The Flood stories were to have taken place prior to the myths of A&E in the GoE. And for the record, both the old and new testaments are so embedded in Egyptian astrotheology that they are nothing more than ancient astrological calendars referencing animals like rams, lambs, fish; elements like rain, wind, fire and air; numbers like 3 Mary's, 3 Magi, the trinity, 3 days Jonah was in the belly of a whale, 3 days between crucifixion and resurrection (an impossibility, I might add); 7 days in a week, 7th son(sun) of the 7th son(sun), 12 days of Christmas, 12 apostles, 12 months in a year, Mary was age 12 when she was impregnated, 12 tribes, and Jesus was age 12 when he was found at the temple; 30 days in a month, Jesus was 30 years when his ministry began, there are 30 degrees in every astrological sign; 40 days it rained, 40 days and nights Jesus prayed in the desert, Moses spent 40 years in the desert, and Jesus ascended on the 40th day; 144 (12x12) means wholly, entirely, and the alpha and the omega -- the entire orbit around the zodiac.

That is extremely interesting that numerology coupled with astrology I shall look into that further . It seems from what you put forward here is that the earlier books of the Bible as in the order we have them today is firstly due to mainly Egyptian and Babylonian(Iraqi) influence . How much of the later Old Testament was influenced by the Greek thought of Alexanders time ?
Moses has been ruled scholarly out as having written about his own death. The whole aura of the 'Pentateuch' reeks of Egyptian culture. The ancient Hebrews (Abiru) were Egyptian, and there is a very fine line between Egyptians and Jews (but don't tell them I said that!). The only true difference between Jews and Arabs is their holy books and land holdings. Genetically, they're the same. In fact, we all may be Egyptian offshoots.
But did the Jews actually reside in Egypt as claimed ? Clearly from this link the American archaeologist Mark Lehner and Egyptian archaeologist Zahi Hawass say that no Jews built these structures and they cannot find any trace of where the Jews lived in Egypt .
Who Built the Pyramids? (http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/nova/pyramid/explore/builders.html)
In fact the Red Sea crossing has been dismissed as well .
All I'm saying is don't credit some guy named 'Moses' (there were quite a few of them in the 18 Dynasty alone, and 'Moses' isn't a name, it's a pharaonic title, and there were multitudes of Moseses in Memphis.
I only implied Moses authored these books as to fit in with the line of debate for the sake of the argument . Moses did not obviously author these books , or if this character Moses existed he simply plagiarized the Iraqi Gilgamesh epic .
The actual chronology of the books of the bible were NOT, repeat NOT written in the order they appear in the bible. Just like the gospels, the earliest one written was Mark (Mars) circa 70 AD not Matthew (Ma'at or Mithras). Just for the record, Luke (Lucifer) and John (Oannes), Thomas (Tammuz), Peter (Ju-Peter), Paul (Apollo), for starters.
I realize there were additions , I believe over time additions were made as the ancient Hebrews came into contact with other neighbouring cultures . You can see with the New Testament that it really reads like Greek Philosophy current at the time Israel being under Roman rule .
I have to run now, or I could go on forever, but I do look forward to your response.
Yes I have enjoyed your post and thank you I have learnt some interesting items such as that numerology lesson which I shall investigate further ,

But did the Jews actually reside in Egypt as claimed ? Clearly from this link the American archaeologist Mark Lehner and Egyptian archaeologist Zahi Hawass say that no Jews built these structures and they cannot find any trace of where the Jews lived in Egypt .
Who Built the Pyramids? (http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/nova/pyramid/explore/builders.html)
In fact the Red Sea crossing has been dismissed as well .

*************
M*W: The reason they could not find any trace of Jews/Hebrews living in Egypt is because they weren't Jews/Hebrews, they were Egyptians. Hebrews evolved out of Egyptians, their name was changed to give them a distinction, but they were nothing more, nothing less, than Egyptians.

Who built the pyramids? I don't know, but it wasn't the Jews. I personally think that the Egyptians at that time were an advanced race. Why else would they place the pyramids in alignment with certain stars? They were really into the gods from the skies (space beings). I'm still quite skeptical on their existence. I guess you could rightfully say that as far as ETs go, I'm agnostic.

I tend to think that some kind of anti-gravity was used and the pyramids may have been built from top to bottom rather than from ground up. The world is full of pyramids, not just Egypt. They all appeared around the same timeline. Why are the Aztec, Mayan and Peruvian pyramids so similar to the Chinese temple pyramid etchings when these countries were separated by the vast Pacific Ocean? I don't know, but I'm inclined to believe that the Titan's did exist and it would have been quite easy for a Titan to stack a bunch of small boulders together without any effort.

Regardless of how the pyramids were built, or if there were any real sky gods, we know for sure humanity existed and evolved. As long as we look beyond our own dimension for some kind of creator god, we limit our own creative power and become our own adversary.

As long as we look beyond our own dimension for some kind of creator god, we limit our own creative power and become our own adversary.
Thanks for that interesting post MW , I find the Egyptian angle very interesting .

I can now safely decalre to Zephyr that I have accomplished what he dared me to do in this thread and have held the assertion that Judaism is a supremacist religious/ideology .No argument was put forward successfully to disprove this assertion .

The matter is now closed .

as long as there is bigotry in the world, no issue resembling this will be closed.

you are a bigot.

please ban brian foley


spidergoat: i thought that the rule was no "threads" could be started about banning a certain person. if i am doing wrong, moderators please pm me to say so. :)


please ban brian foley.

so stop attempting to make out I deliberately authored an extremist thread .
I'm not. However, the assertion I quote is what I was responding to in the other thread, the reason I suggested you create a thread in this forum, and the assertion I am responding to here.

Your first link about the Chosen People points out only 2 minority Christian Groups The Mormons and Seventh Day Adventists see themselves as a chosen people , these 2 groups hardly represent Christianity and are on the fringe . Nowhere does your link provide quotes concerning the Koran or the Christian nor the Hindu beliefs only to say that there are segments of opinions that consider themselves chosen , but not based on scriptural evidence . More importantly this link has the included the Nazi master race concept alongside the Jewish chosen people concept , so do you think this chosen people concept has supremacist overtones ?

Firstly, I've shown that it isn't "Jews are the only religion that does", unless you say that none of the other groups you mention are religions.

Secondly, we're talking about whether the ideology is racist. Mormons may be a fringe group, but are they racist? Have Mormons ever wiped out an ethnic group, or performed ethnic cleansing, or blown up a busload of civilians? They may be more assertive in their faith, but how does 'fringe' equate to 'racist'?

Thirdly, here you manage to discern between some Christian groups and others. Now if you look at my first link (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jews_as_a_chosen_people#Views_of_chosenness_by_the _modern_Jewish_denominations) you would see that different Jewish groups have different views too. Did you notice this?

So not only isn't it "Jews are the only religion that does", within Judaism there are different viewpoints. Just like Christianity has different levels of extremism in different groups? Or Islam?

As for this 2nd link , I can only accept that as other than a cop out by you yourself , simply to make out I am simply singling out Jews and selectively taking quotes out of context from the bible to arrive at a skewered viewpoint that reinforces a point of view . You asked me to do this thread concerning this subject and I have complied , I even PMed you to come here and enjoin this debate . I appreciate your points , but you are really avoiding answering the quotes and whether they are offensive or not , and I would like it very much if you could address these quotes and provide an answer as to whether these quotes are indeed offensive and provoke the kind of ideological excess’s common to Zionism against other human beings , that is what is sick .
I don't have time or desire to do so myself, but it's easy to select similar quotes from the New Testament or Quran. It's not a cop-out; it's just that I don't think it's worthwhile responding to something that can be used to incriminate almost any religion equally. The assertion "Jews are the only religion that does" is still false.

Regarding Zionism, I agree that the situation in the ME is less than ideal. But does ethnic cleansing of Jews in Arab lands (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jewish_exodus_from_Arab_lands) mean that all Muslims are supremicist racists? Does the KKK mean that all Christians are supremicist racists? If not, how can you possibly infer that Israel represents all Jews?

Really, I think most people on this thread would agree that I've shown that:

Non-Jewish groups also hold to the 'chosenness' concept. (E.g. Christians believe that in the New Testament their chosenness is added to, or replaces that of the Jews)
In these groups only extremists use this concept to defend supremism. The same is true in Judaism.

If from this Foley wishes to argue Jews are still somehow more racist than Christians or Muslims, then I suspect he'll make himself look either foolish, or bigoted, or both.

Could it be Brian, that you are totally loseing this argument?

A word of advice, give the fuck over.

:m:

zephyr...he already looked foolish and bigoted BEFORE he even made this thread. he once went through all my posts in order to try and make me look confused, or as a liar.

he asserted that i said i was mormon, when i am most certainly not.
he said that my heritage was a lie, and still clings to this because he has nothing else to claim. these are examples of personal attacks he makes on people who happen to disagree with him. several times in other threads, i have given scriptural evidence for what i have stated on this thread, but he couldnt take the time to look THOSE up, because they might make him seem foolish for saying i never said those things.

he is a troll. nothing more.

please ban brian foley.

What was all that whining about diversion, anyway?

Foley doesn't like straight answers; he doesn't deal in them, and they confuse him, like looking into a car's headlights, or seeing something shiny.

Geoff

Firstly, I've shown that it isn't "Jews are the only religion that does", unless you say that none of the other groups you mention are religions.
No you havent , you have shown a link which gives Christianity , Islam and Hinduism as examples saying their religion according to their scriptures is the true faith , but in no way does these faiths say that their practitioners are the chosen ones of God . And again in your link Nazism and Zionism were the only ideologies which called their followers the Chosen .
Secondly, we're talking about whether the ideology is racist. Mormons may be a fringe group, but are they racist? Have Mormons ever wiped out an ethnic group, or performed ethnic cleansing, or blown up a busload of civilians? They may be more assertive in their faith, but how does 'fringe' equate to 'racist'?
Actually Balcks could not be Mormons , and up until 1976 this was enforced , the only black in heaven was the slave of Joseph Smith the founder of Mormonism , that is no bullshit .And there are extreme groups within that sect which have set about murdering others an example to set pure Mormonism such as polygamy , the was a case in the 80's .
Thirdly, here you manage to discern between some Christian groups and others. Now if you look at my first link (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jews_as_a_chosen_people#Views_of_chosenness_by_the _modern_Jewish_denominations) you would see that different Jewish groups have different views too. Did you notice this?
Look I know you have very progressive Jewish groups which are liberal and you have very fundamentalist groups . All sects of Judaism be they liberal , conservative or fanatic still hold to that concept that they are a chosen people and God divenely gifted them land .
So not only isn't it "Jews are the only religion that does", within Judaism there are different viewpoints. Just like Christianity has different levels of extremism in different groups? Or Islam?
But on this thread we are discussing Judaism not other religions , you are really trying to spread the blame out and say "well they do it so why cant we". Just address it do you think that the term chosen people is racist and offensive in our modern world ?
I don't have time or desire to do so myself, but it's easy to select similar quotes from the New Testament or Quran. It's not a cop-out; it's just that I don't think it's worthwhile responding to something that can be used to incriminate almost any religion equally. The assertion "Jews are the only religion that does" is still false.
I take that as an admission that you cant provide any tracts from any other reliogion which compares with Judaism's exclusiveness . Judaism is a very unique religion in that they believe they are Gods chosen people , the Christian and Islamic texts clearly reinforce that concept of Jews as well , as those 2 religions grew from that tree .
Regarding Zionism, I agree that the situation in the ME is less than ideal. But does ethnic cleansing of Jews in Arab lands (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jewish_exodus_from_Arab_lands) mean that all Muslims are supremicist racists? Does the KKK mean that all Christians are supremicist racists? If not, how can you possibly infer that Israel represents all Jews?
What do you mean ethnic cleansing those Jews left in an orderly fashion , such as Iraqi Jews as they had airlifts , and besides not all Jews left these arab countries Iraq and Iran still have sizeable Jewish communities . There was plenty of American Jewish pressure on those nations to get them to send their Jewish populations to Israel . Same as after WW2 those European Jews who survived werent allowed to immigrate to the New World most were put on boats to Palestine . In effect Israel was artificially created .
Really, I think most people on this thread would agree that I've shown that:
You havent shown anything and most people on this thread are of a extremely pro-Israel bias and as you well know an equally bigoted towards Islam .
Non-Jewish groups also hold to the 'chosenness' concept. (E.g. Christians believe that in the New Testament their chosenness is added to, or replaces that of the Jews)
In these groups only extremists use this concept to defend supremism. The same is true in Judaism.
And again no religion other than Judaism holds that their practitioners are in fact the chosen people . 5 million Palestinians were displaced into refugee camps and today suffer unimaginable oppression because a group of people see themselves as Gods Chosen People and seeing their God gave his people a nation they dispossesed an entire people of the lives .
If from this Foley wishes to argue Jews are still somehow more racist than Christians or Muslims, then I suspect he'll make himself look either foolish, or bigoted, or both.
There you go again , making himself the victim , clearly you asked , or better yet , dared me to do this thraed and here you are attempting to make out I have deliberately and volutarily constructed an anti-Semitic tract . Thats why this thraed hasnt been locked up because the mods are aware of why this thraed has been constructed . Stop playing the victim and start answering the questions .

Once again no religion be it Christianity , Islam , Hinduism , Bhuddism etc claim they are a chosen people . Now I laid out several quotes which 3 of them ie: the Chosen People , Gods gift of Israel and the persecution of Gentiles is justified in those verses and currently Israel is prosecuting those policies because of Biblical writ . Can you explain the Jewish scriptual justification of these policies towards non-Jews .

Could it be Brian, that you are totally loseing this argument?

A word of advice, give the fuck over.

:m:
Good you must of seen where on this thread where the concept of "The Chosen People " was tackled head on , because I for the life of me cant find it , could you show me where I cant seem to find it ? Or better yet why dont you address it , put your mouth on the line .

for being done talking about this, you sure wont shut up, foley.

please ban brian foley for extreme anti-semitism.

He should be banned on the grounds of stupidity, not anti-semitism.

Man, does this factory worker guy ever shut up about the evil Jews?

No you havent , you have shown a link which gives Christianity , Islam and Hinduism as examples saying their religion according to their scriptures is the true faith , but in no way does these faiths say that their practitioners are the chosen ones of God . And again in your link Nazism and Zionism were the only ideologies which called their followers the Chosen .

And the difference between "chosen people" and "those that will inherit the kingdom of God etc etc" is....?

But on this thread we are discussing Judaism not other religions , you are really trying to spread the blame out and say "well they do it so why cant we". Just address it do you think that the term chosen people is racist and offensive in our modern world ?

LOL - of course not! But you say any use of "chosen people" terminology is exclusionary (and I can't believe I have to give Foley his proper terminology, but it's better than letting him stagger around in the dark), then wouldn't you consider Diamond's commentaries exclusionary also? She's talked at least once about muslims being allah's "chosen". BTW, you said "racist" again - and here you keep telling me you think Jewish people aren't a race! :D Sort out that Khazar thing yet? LOL

I take that as an admission that you cant provide any tracts