Interesting perspective

http://www.uexpress.com/columnoftheamericas/

FROM UNIVERSAL PRESS SYNDICATE
COLUMN OF THE AMERICAS by Patrisia Gonzales and Roberto Rodriguez
U.S. SUPPORTS ANTI-DEMOCRATIC MOVES IN THE AMERICAS

It took spending several weeks in Mexico to remind us that the news in the United States is a product little different from any well-known brand, and that it comes to us filtered, diluted and highly censored.

This was most evident not simply in regard to the Iraq war, but also to the recent pardoning of four terrorists in Panama and the effort by the U.S.-supported opposition in Venezuela to depose their duly elected leader, Hugo Chavez.

A quick read of virtually any newspaper in Mexico gives one news not just about Mexico, but about the United States, the Americas, Africa and Asia, and the wars in the Middle East. As such, the average reader in Mexico is apparently better informed about the world than the average consumer of U.S. news.

It's difficult to appreciate the amount of censorship taking place in the United States because unless one is the object of that censorship, how would one even know it was occurring?

Censorship is different from the mere slanting of the news. From the view of the U.S. government, the U.S. military is spreading democracy worldwide. The view from seemingly everywhere else is that the United States is militarily intervening and occupying foreign nations illegally, while blackmailing nations into supporting the president's policies.

As a result, the United States appears to be losing allies and admirers fast. Actually, it's not the United States that is the object of scorn. As seen through unfiltered media, it is President Bush and his "arrogant cowboy attitude" that draws the world's ire.

Both my grandparents (live(d) in Venezuela) hate Chavez (as to millions of other Venezuelans) You know how polarized things are here in the states over Bush as president, imagine that times ten, add in the fact that the president (Chavez) disbanded the congress and is eccentric if not insane by the standards of many. If Mexicans get news that tells them Chavez is great, then their media is biases and filtered as well.

As a result, the United States appears to be losing allies and admirers fast. Actually, it's not the United States that is the object of scorn. As seen through unfiltered media, it is President Bush and his "arrogant cowboy attitude" that draws the world's ire.
"They" only like us if we are like them, and Bush loses?

If we were like them (even if Bush doesn't win again) there'd be no reason for any one of them to try to get here by any means possible.

We'd be nothing special, and not worth the effort.

Well ese the thread read "chicano's view of The US".

I'm here to give you the perspective from a latino.

If it were not for the US and it's gringos we still be riding buggies pulled by burros.
If it were not for the gringos we still be in the dark with candles.
if it were not for gringos we still be shieting in the outhouse.
if it were not for gringos we still be showering in the river ese.

So whatsss my perspective of gringos?. Buenos mal que estos vinieron o si no fueramos todavia pendejos!!.

Godless.

"A quick read of virtually any newspaper in Mexico gives one news not just about Mexico, but about the United States, the Americas, Africa and Asia, and the wars in the Middle East."

Funny, but every time I pick up a newspaper, its strange, but I seem to read about other countries, as well. I travel abroad on a fairly regular basis, and I manage to see the same news I see everywhere else. Slants do change, and priorities can change, but if you actually take time you can learn about what you need to know. I love when the U.S. press is accused of censorship... and my favorite has to be the accusations of the Zionist controlled media. Most likely, the problem was the fact that the guy read a newspaper for the first time in his life.

Well one must understand that there are two different South America’s the region is not homogenous. Regions like Mexico, Venezuela, Peru, etc are dirt poor nations in comparison to nations like Argentina, Uruguay, and Chile. (It is a largely racial distinction as well, Argentina, Uruguay, and Chile being more white and European then the other states).Anti-Americanism has been a common thread in the region for a long while now, and I don’t expect to ever change (there are credible reasons why). Latin America has to take responsibility for itself and it finally is. Now that Mercorsur is starting to work more efficiency economic integration and progress should begin to level off the anxieties of the US. To Godless:

If it were not for the US and it's gringos we still be riding buggies pulled by burros.
If it were not for the gringos we still be in the dark with candles.
if it were not for gringos we still be shieting in the outhouse.
if it were not for gringos we still be showering in the river ese.

Speak for yourself…not all of Latin America would have been in that boat.

I speak from experience. I'm a Venezuelan born individual. Ive been there and I've seen the dirt poor, fact is I come from dirt poor!!!. :mad:

When the spiniards came to SA the native indians were so dumb and stupid they thought of them as gods, only becuse they rode horses, This is why it was so easy to defeat them, with out ever the civilized people of Europe invading or visiting the Latin Americans and conquering we would still be behind the times by milleniums, these people were utterly stupid, the tragedy that we sustained from slavement by spain was quickly learnt and dealt with, Simon Bolivar fought to liberate Venezuela, Colombia, amongs others, Simon Bolivar origins family were spaniards, as well.

Los indios pendejos isieron nada!! get it?.

Godless.

"Los indios pendejos [estupidos] I've always thought highly of you, Godless but that's just racist.

"This is why it was so easy to defeat them."

Sin verguenza. If you really think the Conquistadores were so morally upright, and native S.Americans so inferior, I don't understand why you aren't campaigning for the re-election of W.

I speak from experience. I'm a Venezuelan born individual. Ive been there and I've seen the dirt poor, fact is I come from dirt poor!!!.

I am all those things except its Uruguay,also I was not dirt poor, quite middle clas. Plus I’ve been to most of Latin America.

When the spiniards came to SA the native indians were so dumb and stupid they thought of them as gods, only becuse they rode horses, This is why it was so easy to defeat them, with out ever the civilized people of Europe invading or visiting the Latin Americans and conquering we would still be behind the times by milleniums,

Again this is irrelevant in half the continent only in your “chimango” parts, see to me you probably have that native blood you so hate. To us you are part of the underdeveloped regions of the continent, so we don’t care much for your types. Be white or not. For you see our natives were all killed, and the mestizos we have where I am from are imports from Bolivia and the gang city. Venezuela on the other hand is mestizo. Our natives did not see us as Gods, they fought tooth and nail against our colonization, but we didn’t hold back.

Los indios pendejos isieron nada!! get it?.

This coming from a person North of Iguaçu falls means nothing. If you want to see racism come go to the Rio de la Plata…you wouldn’t like it with ur nasty form of Spanish.

Hype; How can it be racist when I'm a indio?.

Born in Maracaibo Venezuela, if it were not for my gringo step daddy, I still be living in squalor.

More like Shame. I feel shame that our people were so easy to be conquered, I don't renounce my heritage, though I do recongnise that it was ignorance that brought our downfall. Do I claim that is the case now?. Hell no!! But it was the case back when los conquistadores of Spain were running all over us like weeds.

I didn't mean to sound racist.

Spaniards that were born in the South Americas such as Simon Bolivar and others they were the ones to start the revolution to oust the Spain Conquistadores.

And yes Undecided the indios fought tooth and nail to assist those Spaniards that started the revolutions, but only after they have been led, not all of them were stupid, though much of my assertions come out of anger and it came out that way. The indios were very wise with the herbs and their simplistic way of living, we were very good farmers and irrigators, as well.

My problem perhaps brought here to the states as a very young child, most Mexicans I've ever met were dumb wits at times asking if Venezuela was part of Mexico. This happening at a young age brought the notion that the poor are in general very ingnorant. Even today my mom has been asked what part of Mexico is Venezuela, and this from adults almost her age 71 she and I can not just dismiss this as idiotic but outright ingnorance.

Godless.

And yes Undecided the indios fought tooth and nail to assist those Spaniards that started the revolutions, but only after they have been led, not all of them were stupid, though much of my assertions come out of anger and it came out that way.

You are talking in absolutes about a whole continent; can you be specific which indios? Where, and when? Because the indios from Uruguay at least didn’t have any pretensions they were rough warriors. To say that the indios were stupid makes you ignorant of history. Their empires being the Inca/Aztec were en par with the European empires in intellectual merit, and they were great cultures that have for too long have been overlooked.

The indios were very wise with the herbs and their simplistic way of living, we were very good farmers and irrigators, as well.

That is not true in a historical sense, it all depends on which indios you are blabbering about.

My problem perhaps brought here to the states as a very young child, most Mexicans I've ever met were dumb wits at times asking if Venezuela was part of Mexico. This happening at a young age brought the notion that the poor are in general very ingnorant. Even today my mom has been asked what part of Mexico is Venezuela, and this from adults almost her age 71 she and I can not just dismiss this as idiotic but outright ingnorance.

That’s because your corrupt governments haven’t taught you anything, and chances are they didn’t want the masses to know anything. Your societies, and governments compared to western states in the America’s are far behind in almost every way. The people aren’t stupid, its their governments and control of the elites in your nations that allowed that to happen.

Thanks for the clarification, Godless, obviously I took it the wrong way. I think history has rarely witnessed the culture shock of the Conquistadores. In our times, hostile little Greys hopping out of flying saucers and taking over our resources would hardly be more strange and devastating to our contemporary societies, as was the rude arrival of the Europeans in the Americas. I suspect the sense of shame is part of the cultural surrender and subjugation that befell the "Indios" (so ironic that you are even still misnamed as Indians). For everyone's wellbeing in an integrating world, racism and ethnic shame have both got to go, and be supplanted by respect and pride, wherever the "primitive" have been so traumatically confronted by the "civilized".

When the Spaniards came to SA the native Indians were so dumb and stupid they thought of them as gods, only becuse they rode horses. This is why it was so easy to defeat them. Without ever the civilized people of Europe invading or visiting the Latin Americans and conquering we would still be behind the times by millennia. These people were utterly stupid. The tragedy that we sustained from enslavement by Spain was quickly learnt and dealt with. Simón Bolívar fought to liberate Venezuela, Colombia, amongst others. Simón Bolívar family origins were Spanish, as well.

Los indios pendejos no hicieron nada!! Get it?

Godless.The Incas were not stupid. They were simply unfamiliar with the iron-age technology that the Spaniards had. It's a cliché in anthropology that "any sufficiently advanced technology is indistinguishable from magic." People who believe in gods, the supernatural, and magic can very easily believe that a person from a more advanced civilization is a god from a supernatural realm practicing magic.

Just look at the supposedly "highly advanced" Americans who fall for the stage magic tricks of faith healers. They believe they've been touched by the power of a god, when it's really all done with a huge clandestine staff of eavesdroppers, cold readings, miniature radios, psychology, and the power of suggestion. So 21st century American fundamentalist Christians are just as "stupid" as the Incas were!

The Incas, Mayas, and Aztecs may have been "behind the times by millennia," but that is not due to any flaw in their culture. It was simply because the people in Sumeria, Egypt, India, and China had a head start on the development of technology. Their ancestors had been in those regions for tens of thousands of years. They formed the world's first multi-species community with wolves/dogs in 13,000BCE. If you're familiar with my other postings you know my thesis that that one achievement laid the groundwork for civilization because it taught the small human tribes that they were capable of getting along with other "people" that they couldn't even talk to.

In the New World in 13,000BCE, on the other hand, the first humans had just set foot on this soil. Their cousins back in central Asia had an advanced culture by the standards of the era, but in 13,000BCE if you wanted to travel several thousand miles you left everything behind that you couldn't carry on your back, including what little science and engineering knowledge you had. They had to start over where their own ancestors had started twenty or thirty thousand years before.

The fact that in only 13,000 years the people of Central and South America invented agriculture, animal husbandry, cities, mathematics, written language, government, and stonemasonry -- and on top of that also discovered bronze metallurgy -- was an astounding accomplishment. It took the people of Mesopotamia two or three times as long to reach that stage of development. And it took them another couple of thousand years to progress from bronze to the steel technology that allowed them to conquer the Aztecs and Incas.

It is not correct to say that the people of the New World were not "civilized." Civilization does not require steel. The civilizations of the Old World made do with bronze technology for a long time before they learned how to mine and smelt iron. In fact, the earliest cities were built without metal, simply using the stone and flint technology of their hunter-gatherer ancestors. Civilization simply means the building of cities, which requires the cooperation of strangers and the division of labor, and creates a surplus of food and other necessities that fuels the much more rapid advancement of science, art, and philosophy.

The Aztec and Inca civilizations were developing at such a rapid pace, it's startling to speculate what they might have accomplished if they'd been left alone. By now they might well have invented steel, full rigged sailing ships, and eyeglasses, and discovered gunpowder, in a fraction of the time it took the people of the Old World. They might have formed an alliance with the Oriental civilizations that would have held the Europeans in check.

No hay que llamarles pendejos a los Incas, y absolutamente no es verdad que ellos no hicieron nada. Los pendejos son los líderes de nuestro país, quiénes no saben su propria historia y entonces deben repetirla. Su caída ocurrirá pronto. Los otros pueblos del mundo tendrán sus proprias oportunidades de dirigir su destino.

Como dijimos durante los años 1960, "Así rebota la pelota."

Thanks Hype for understanding.

Fraggle: stupid came out of anger. Hell all one has to do is look at what is left of the incas, aztecs, and mayans pyramids & buildings to understand these people were higly advanced in architect compared to the Spaniards Conquistadores, but they were still ingnorant of the betrayall that soon came after meeting these new people, to the Aztecs gold was so abundant they really didn't see the value to it as did the Europeans.

Some spaniards themselves were real ingnorant looking for such thing as "the fountain of youth". It seems my ancestors found it :) My mom @ 71 often gets mistaken to be in her late 50's, my sister 47 can easyly pass for mid 30's, me the youngest at 42 still get id to purchase beer some times.

Anyhow mysticism does make people ingnorant, specially those you spoke of, the ones that think got cured by some NUT touching their foreheads, or the one's that swear that a psychic helped them out, or told their fortune. Fortune telling, Tarot cards, Curanderas, and palm readings are big business here in the SouthWest, the reason? many latinos mystic believe in this crap. Mom don't but she claims that she can read the Tarot cards, to her it was a child's game. When visiting Las Vegas there were lots of these as well, I imagine people try to get an edge at gambling.

From the Aztecs I think they were the ones we get astrology from their depictions of the Sun in the middle and the 12 signs sourounding it engraved in their temples.

I've been reading some more on Venezuelan history, it seems my country has had a fight for democrazy for quite some time, and still we are pendejo indians with the likes of Chavez ruining our economy. Venezuela should not be were it is today, specially when we are sitting in so much oil and part of the OPEC cartel. Venezuelans opted to leave Chavez in power this past election, I think mainly do to standing up to Bush, however my brother that lives in Venezuela claims it's pretty bad down there, and he believes the elections were fixed.

Godless.

No hay que llamarles pendejos a los Incas, y absolutamente no es verdad que ellos no hicieron nada. Los pendejos son los líderes de nuestro país, quiénes no saben su propria historia y entonces deben repetirla. Su caída ocurrirá pronto. Los otros pueblos del mundo tendrán sus proprias oportunidades de dirigir su destino.

No quisas "pendejo" es una palabra muy incorrecta en este protesto, pero si ingnorante, de lo gue esta occuriendo, mi hermano me esplica gue uno esta muy occupado tratando de haser una vida en ves de estar poniendole el ojo a los politicos, si no fueran por los estudiantes gue son los gue se levanta contra la politica de nuestros tiempos, casi nadien supiera que es lo gue esta pasando. Pero los Venezolanos siempre luchan y los problemas se resuelven, lo unico que se nesesita es el mapa a la democracia.

Godless.

Undecided;

Mostly I was refering to the indios of Venezuela, Colombia, And nothern SouthAmerica.
By being Venezuelan that has been what I've mostly been refering to.

*That’s because your corrupt governments haven’t taught you anything, and chances are they didn’t want the masses to know anything. Your societies, and governments compared to western states in the America’s are far behind in almost every way. The people aren’t stupid, its their governments and control of the elites in your nations that allowed that to happen.*

Did I metion that these Mexicans were here in the States? no ingnorance is ingnorance no one tought me to pick up an atlas and see other nations, that came from curiosity, when I was a child I knew almost all latin American countries and their capitals, I've found that living here in the Houston area, Latinos, be it mexicans, guatemalans, cubanos, venezolanos, are not as quite ingnorant as were the mexicans closer to the border, I relate that to poverty, the poorer people are more ingnorant than the ones coming from middle class or upper class societies, the poor are just too preocupied to make a living other than learning geography.

Governments are not to be blamed for people's ingnorance, I know they are the ones that control the educational process, however when there's libraries provided, and people can pick up a book and read, about their origins, geography, or any topic either in spanish or english here in the SouthWest, government is not to be blamed. Its just pure laziness, brain lazy and no curiosity to learn something knew. Plus it would benefit governments to educate it's population well, so people can earn more money, they can get more taxes!!. ;)

Godless.

'I don't believe in the dogmatic postulates of Marxist revolution. I don't accept that we are living in a period of proletarian revolutions. All that must be revised. Reality is telling us that every day. Are we aiming in Venezuela today for the abolition of private property or a classless society? I don't think so. But if I'm told that because of that reality you can't do anything to help the poor, the people who have made this country rich through their labour and never forget that some of it was slave labour, then I say 'We part company'. I will never accept that there can be no redistribution of wealth in society. Our upper classes don't even like paying taxes. That's one reason they hate me. We said 'You must pay your taxes'.(chavez)

http://www.newint.org/issue309/Images/fist.GIF

Thats right, Colonista, your days of privilege are over. Conform or pack your bags and leave. Go back to where you came from. You are not wanted.

To the Aztecs gold was so abundant they really didn't see the value to it as did the Europeans.It's the Europeans who were "stupid" in that regard. From a practical standpoint, gold is not one of the more valuable elements in the periodic table. Because it's soft for a metal and chemically inert, it was useful in dental work and electronics until more modern synthetic materials replaced it. But the huge value that we place on gold -- thousands of dollars for one kilo -- is the result of mythology, not practicality.

Jung's famous popularizer Joseph Campbell said that money is the myth of our era. That is true in two different ways. In one sense, economics has replaced psychology and religion as our dominant philosophy. But in another sense, money itself is a myth because it does not exist in reality. It only exists because we believe it does and we all agree on the the details of that belief. Gold only has a high value because it is relatively rare in the Old World (remember that those people had many more thousands of years to rape their natural resources than the New World people did) and, therefore, can be used as a convenient medium for exchange.

The Aztecs and Incas had not invented money, so for them the only value gold had was its intrinsic value, as a material for creating art. To the Europeans, the value of gold was so much greater than that, that it was worthwhile to melt down all the beautiful pieces of art, form them into ingots, and send it back to Europe where the kings and the pope could lock it up in a vault.

Luego, ¿quienes son los pendejos? :)From the Aztecs, I think they were the ones we get astrology from: their depictions of the Sun in the middle and the 12 signs surrounding it engraved in their temples.No, astrology is an "archetype" in Jung's model of the human spirit. It occurs independently in different cultures at different times. Our twelve sun signs and the magic powers attributed to them go all the way back to ancient Babylon, long before there was any contact between the Europeans and Aztlán. The Chinese also have a zodiac with twelve signs. It's difficult to say with 100 percent certainty that they didn't get it from the Babylonians, but it's very unlikely since there was virtually no contact between the two peoples until the Iron Age, around 2,000BCE, and both astrological systems were well established by that time.

Did I metion that these Mexicans were here in the States? no ingnorance is ingnorance no one tought me to pick up an atlas and see other nations, that came from curiosity, when I was a child I knew almost all latin American countries and their capitals, I've found that living here in the Houston area, Latinos, be it mexicans, guatemalans, cubanos, venezolanos, are not as quite ingnorant as were the mexicans closer to the border, I relate that to poverty, the poorer people are more ingnorant than the ones coming from middle class or upper class societies, the poor are just too preocupied to make a living other than learning geography.

Why did u rehash what I said into different words? Waste of time no? Obviously in every country on Earth educational levels correspond to that of wealth here is a great site to tell you the “knowledge” of Hispanics. The Hispanics of the US are actually still less on the IQ then the average American:

http://www.sq.4mg.com/latino.htm

The top three nations on the list are mostly European nations (in terms of culture, race, and ethnicity):

Spain:99
Argentina:96
Uruguay:96

Although the GDP figures are from 2001, today Spain, Uruguay, and Argentina in that order in terms of GDP per capita. As you can plainly see those nations with larger “minority populations”, and a more segregated economic history have suffered.

Governments are not to be blamed for people's ingnorance, I know they are the ones that control the educational process, however when there's libraries provided, and people can pick up a book and read, about their origins, geography, or any topic either in spanish or english here in the SouthWest, government is not to be blamed.

That’s nonsense, governments have to blaimed, they provide “basic education” and that could mean just about anything. If you are poor you don’t have time to waste at school, your family needs you to work. How is that nations like Spain, Argentina, and Uruguay which have MUCH higher living standards, and educational standards do not have the same endemic problems that you mestizo nations have? Its quite simple, historically the mestizo’s and indio’s have not been given a fair shake at the wealth that the nation truly has.

Its just pure laziness, brain lazy and no curiosity to learn something knew. Plus it would benefit governments to educate it's population well, so people can earn more money, they can get more taxes!!.

That argument is not only the reason why your petty nations do not develop it is that racist sentiment that dooms your nations to eternal poverty. Don’t come crawling to our doors, they will be closed.

Hype; How can it be racist when I'm a indio?. because it feeds racism, would you agree with your statements, if they were directly directed at you, by some anglo? there is such a thing as self-hatred

Born in Maracaibo Venezuela, if it were not for my gringo step daddy, I still be living in squalor.

More like Shame. ok, so it is self-hate; lighten up, if you feel so bad about it, send money to start schools, tutoring programs, build libraries, literacy programs, college tuition assistance, etc...

I feel shame that our people were so easy to be conquered, I don't renounce my heritage, though I do recongnise that it was ignorance that brought our downfall. Do I claim that is the case now?. Hell no!! But it was the case back when los conquistadores of Spain were running all over us like weeds.
you need to know a little more about history, any Old World culture would have conquered the Native Peoples here for 3 very important reasons;
1) they were all stone-age people, check out the Smithsonian site'
http://www.si.edu/resource/faq/nmnh/origin.htm

2) they had no immunities against smallpox. measles, TB, etc... (it was like SARS, ABF, HIV of today, is to us), check out:
http://www.wwnorton.com/catalog/spring99/gunsgerms.htm

&
3) Spain, Portugal, France, England, the Dutch all had experience in all facets of war; massed armies, strategy, horses, muskets, cannons, treachery, ships, bribes, nation-building, coalitions, etc... (fighting to kill, check out the "flower wars" of the Aztecs)
http://www.ucalgary.ca/applied_history/tutor/eurvoya/eurowar.html
http://salc.wsu.edu/Fair_F02/FS28/Aztec%20social_classes.htm

I didn't mean to sound racist. but you did

Spaniards that were born in the South Americas such as Simon Bolivar and others they were the ones to start the revolution to oust the Spain Conquistadores.

And yes Undecided the indios fought tooth and nail to assist those Spaniards that started the revolutions, but only after they have been led,the implication is that Euros are the leaders, Native Peoples are the followers? that may be because they have all the power, money, political control, left over from the colonial period

not all of them were stupid, though much of my assertions come out of anger and it came out that way. The indios were very wise with the herbs and their simplistic way of living, we were very good farmers and irrigators, as well. among other things: do you need a list? use your browser

My problem perhaps brought here to the states as a very young child, most Mexicans I've ever met were dumb wits at times asking if Venezuela was part of Mexico. This happening at a young age brought the notion that the poor are in general very ingnorant. Even today my mom has been asked what part of Mexico is Venezuela, and this from adults almost her age 71 she and I can not just dismiss this as idiotic but outright ingnorance.

Godless.
and your point is? as Jay Leno demonstrates every so often on his "Jaywalking" segment, there's college students that don't know even simpler things,

so Venezuela isn't part of Mexico yet? I'll have to rectify that, as soon as I conquer the world!

Any Old World culture would have conquered the Native Peoples here for 3 very important reasons;
1) they were all stone-age people, check out the Smithsonian siteI haven't been to the Smithsonian's website recently but since I work in D.C. I have been to the Smithsonian several times over the past two years. Their treatment of the New World leaves a lot to be desired. I'm sure everyone knows that they just opened "The Museum of the American Indian." Thank the goddess that they finally gave up on that "Native American" handle -- I'm a "native American" because I was born in Chicago and my blood is 100 percent gabacho.

But even this brand new museum, whose construction had the collaboration of practically every tribe on both continents with more than fifty members and quite a few with fewer, even this effort is already being criticized for not maintaining the standards of scholarship that one would have expected.

For starters, it completely ignores the astounding results of recent research into the migrations from Asia, the results that absolutely nail the dates of the Second and Third Waves. It presents without a hint of controversy the Hupa tribe's contention that they have been in North America for more than ten thousand years and lay claim to all the human remains of that era that have been discovered on their territory. When in fact the original Na-Dene people from whom the Hupa and virtually every tribe west of the Rockies are descended didn't set foot on this continent until about 4,000BCE. Those bones belong to the distant Athabascan ancestors of the Olmecs and Incas, who were the only people in North America prior to the Na-Dene migration.

So I wouldn't put too much stock in the Smithsonian's attempt to place the New World's two civilizations in their proper place on the scale of man's cultural evolution.

There's no argument that all civilizations were first created by Neolithic ("late Stone Age") people. You can do some mighty high-quality civil engineering by shaping quarried rocks using nothing but the flint and stone technology your ancestors left you. But the Aztecs and Incas were way beyond that. They had learned how to mine copper and tin and how to smelt it into the alloy known as bronze. They had, in other words, entered the Bronze Age and had invented metallurgy, an incredible step forward in technology. Museums are full of metal objects crafted by pre-Columbian people. Even the Smithsonian has cases full of them with a pictorial display of the different types of bronze they got by alloying other metals such as nickel. The Aztecs and Incas even had art objects made of gold! You do not get such artifacts from a Stone Age people, mi hijito. If you can work gold you've got metallurgy. If you've got metallurgy you're automatically out of the Stone Age. Bienvenidos, mis hermanos, you are now a Bronze Age people. By definition!

So please, stop perpetrating the fraudulent claim that the entire pre-Columbian New World was in the Stone Age when the Europeans landed. The Incas and Aztecs (including their precursors, the Mayas and Olmecs) were Bronze Age peoples.

Venezuelan news gets raided.

http://www.vheadline.com/readnews.asp?id=22910

Godless.