Catcher in the Rye.....the human condition

Is this a truth of real life?

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Sounds like an EXCELLENT book

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It is ...but it depends from which perspective you view the truth

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Or maybe Holden should just go back to listening to System of a Down and slitting his wrists like all rich brats with too much time on their hands.

 

Finally someone gets it...Holden wasn't anything to think about...he was a rich white brat who got the best in life so he had to make misery for himself just to feel alive...Amen Xev..AMEN

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RE:IXL777

The loony who killed John Lennon was inspired by the book. (Saw an interview with him on CNN. He killed Lennon because he became phony...)

Sallinger meant (and means) the we are ourselves and real only as/when children. When we grow up we spoil everything. How true!

 

I've read the book, I enjoyed it, you can download the e-book on Kazaa although I don't know if that is legal

 

LOL. No, it isn't...

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Then again, downloading games, music and movies isn't either

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Re: RE:IXL777

[
Sallinger meant (and means) the we are ourselves and real only as/when children. When we grow up we spoil everything. How true! [/B][/QUOTE]

I agree, from innocance to morons!

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Re: Re: RE:IXL777

Funny...for some it is the other way around

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A characteristic of the human condition or just a condition which all humans must go through to become human. Holden is trying to become a human, he discovers at the end that this lonliness, this state that he is feeling is typical to life. Then realzing that this isolation is part of what a human is. To become human one must suffer through this. It is a part of who we are. The loss of innocence that we own is natural, I believe that we all must lose our innocence to become fully human, it is what we are meant to do. Now is Holden going insane? Well at the end we see him in the mental insitution but perhaps he is just an oversensitive youth. Holden doesn't want to let his innocence leave him, but to move on in his development of becoming an adult he must and thus the conflict and the eventual resolution that we see at the end of this amazing novel.

 

Holden thank to much. His point was this; everyone reads way to much into crap. Even that lady on the bus who though he was Rudolf Schmidt.

And as Xev put it, he is a rich spoiled kid who never worked. He doesn't have the right to complain about anything, I'm having to work my way through college, he didn't, fuck him.

(All goth's are rich. I hate goth's.)

 

RE: Abdiel

You are born human. Holden doesn't want to accept "typical life" because accepting that is a loss. He turns for help to his 5 years old sister, to show him direction which he feels is losing. Children have something which we lose while we grow up. (Clint Eastwood said about acting: its like becaming 5 years old again, you must dissolve yourself to became open to experiencing something fully again to live yourself in a very diffrent existence - or something like that...)

 

Just because you have money doesn't mean you can't be depressed, lonely or miserable.

I had a communications professor that had various rules for gratifying human relations, one rule was:

"Don't be so judgemental"

 

IXL777,

You just stole what I said. Exactly what I said. If your going to rip off my post at least be half way decent about and change some of the words around.

Well wait, were you quoting me? If you are then use some form of something to show that your quoting me.

 

Procop you have said that we are all born human, there I must disagree. My disapproval lies probably in what we define a human as. What you are saying, that we all are born human, is, at least to me ridiculous. Just because we were born doesn't make us truly human, my justification is that humans must endure relationships and the processes of life.

For example say that (I think this was actually done once) we took a newborn babe and locked it in a room, keep it alive and such. Would the babe be a human? I mean truly human, of course it was born a human, at least it had the body and all the necessary abilities to become a human but just for the reason that we're born doesn't necessarily guarentee the experiences of a human. Thats what we are in the end, after our bodies die off whats left, what made us who we are throughout our lives, what made us human?

Holden is growing older in this novel, part of him wishes to become an adult and part of him wishes to stay a child, innocent. That was my main point that losing our innocence is a natural part of growing older and should not be discouraged. In the end I'm not saying that newborn babes are not human for they very well are what I am trying to proclaim in some strange fashion is that to become a full fledged human we need the experiences througout our lives which will aid us along the way.

 

RE:Abdiel

Well we have human genes and these are determinat for eg. our IQ. This IQ will come out even in separation. You do not have to accept that growing up includes/necessitates becoming a "phony". Sallinger wrote more books all of them basicaly proposing the idea that we "unnecessarily" change ourselves in "phonies". But he was a recluse, sort of. A comparision comes to my mind. In the WW I wounded soldiers were treated with a medicine (a cream) was put in their wounds to desinfect them. It did cure the wound but the soldiers were mutilated horribly. It came out that there was an another medicine (at that time) much softer which would cure them too without the mutilations but the doctors believed that the first medicine was more effective. You do not have to change drastically when groving up, it is not necessary, thats, I guess, what Sallinger wanted to say.

 

fredx:

No, but come the fuck on - Holden could hire fucking hookers, he didn't have to be depressed or miserable.

The rich can be depressed, lonely and miserable just like the rest of us - it's just that their pain is amusing.

Coffee:

Bingo. Why should some brat who never had to work a day in his life bore the rest of us with his whining about his lost innocence? Fuck, I never had innocence to lose and you don't see me moping around.

As Rodney Orpheus says:
Money's wasted on the rich.

 

Was he a goth? well I'm conflicted, goths are the biggest phonies on the planet.

But I can relate to not wanting to become an adult homo-sapien. They are horrible horrible creatures.
Why should he work? Would you join the army if you were anti-war? Well its the exact same thing.
"Working" is joining and helping the force of evil.
I don't know what he has against humans but I consider them a pest which they clearly are. I don't work for this reason. At least thats my excuse, I'm also lazy and work is hard.
I'm looking for a career that won't help society, preferably one that will hurt it. I don't know what that is yet.
I don't like humans, why am I forced to take their side in the war against the world? Why am I judged for not assisting them in devouring the planet? Oh yeah ... humans are the judges...
Well I don't care what you flesh and bone diseases think.
If it is true that the unemployed are a burden on society than perhaps that is the career I have been looking for ... how convenient

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*relaxes*

 

RE

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r Lou Natic

Have you considered a post in the goverment?