Case of the Atheists vs C20 - Petitioned by Medicine*Woman

Initial Response by c20H25N3o: Make your petition if you must. You will have to provide hard evidence. I'm sure James R is an intelligent guy who will see that you are trying to ban me because you do not like me talking about my faith because it is not your faith. By trying to ban me you are saying, "See our God is bigger than yours because we can ban you and shut you up". Go for it.

*************
The Prosection :M*W: You haven't provided any hard evidence for what you preach! It's your constant preaching without providing evidence for debate. Didn't you read the rules about preaching? I don't care what other people believe. As long as they don't preach, I enjoy reading what they write -- in fact, I may learn something I didn't know. There is no way I am trying to say "my god is bigger than your god," since I don't believe in the existence of a god. Again, you lie and you preach. We all know about christianity on this forum. We don't need your constant preaching. If we wanted to be christians we would be christians. Most of us have been christians and we saw the truth. Christianity wasn't the truth. Why do you continue to preach about your delusional God?
*************
James R. c20's delusional preaching is becoming quite annoying. I pasted the rule for him about preaching on sciforums, but apparently c20 hasn't read it, nor has he provided any scholarly evidence to back it up. c20 is not able to debate matters we present to him. He just preaches and pushes christianity even more. His posts would offer genuine topics for debate if he would just provide the evidence. Failing that, his fate is in your hands.

Witness For the Defense: Lori_7

Evidence, evidence!!! You guys are like broken records! And what evidence may I ask do either of YOU offer up for anything you believe?????? Where is YOUR evidence??? A Christian can refer to the Bible just as you can refer to any book or website. A Christian can refer to personal experience regarding a spiritual interaction or phenomenon just as anyone else can, including an abductee, a telepathic, a lucid dreamer, or the like. A Christian can refer to the same events and things of this world and offer up an interpretation of them, or an understanding of them according to their own perception, just like you can. You want to act as if YOU are unbiased??? HA!!! Everyone is biased. Everyone has their own limited perceptions and their own paradigms. The only being who's opinions and offerrings are unbiased is God Himself. As a matter of fact it is your own bias which is causing you to post this ridiculous request regarding c2o in the first place.

If you will actually read the forum rules that you posted *handing you some eyeglasses and a hooked on phonics textbook*, they were created to prevent flaming behaviour. Now look at c2o's behaviour. Nope, no flaming there. I would have to say that c2o is probably the most mild-mannered, humble, and meek poster out here. Maybe you should petition to have me banned, or yourself banned, or snake banned or probably anyone else before c2o.

You say that c2o does not answer your questions, and that is a lie. He answers your questions honestly, respectfully, and in accordance with what he has been taught through life experience, the Holy Spirit, and the Bible. He does not claim to be right all of the time. He values the opinions of others, and says so often. And he in no way shape or form belittles anyone, says he's better than anyone else, or tries to shove his beliefs down anyone's throat.

What's the matter MW? Been thinking about Jesus lately? Is it bugging you? I can't imagine why you feel so threatened by c2o, as he has never voiced a threat of any kind or anything even close to it. So what exactly is making you feel so threatened?

C20's Plea - Not Guilty

Defense statement:

This is a religion forum. The main debate here is between atheism and theism. I have written what I have written with a clear conscience and without malice. I happen to have a belief in God. Plain and simple. I see God in the life and resurrection of Jesus Christ who is the one spoken of in the Holy Scriptures as authorised by the Vatican in Rome. It is this Jesus whom I have been speaking of. Jesus as you know is the central figure at the very heart of Christianity, the faith I profess. I profess my faith here because the title of the forum is 'Religion' of which Christianity certainly comes under as a category in the context of a message board forum. I have found that from the outset I have been attacked here on SciForums for talking about my faith in a Sub Forum entitled 'Religion'. I have not deleted any of my posts and anyone may judge how I have been treated for themselves for professing my faith in God albeit in a Christian context. As Lori_7 quite rightly points out, we have Christian churches everywhere we go. It is the largest faith in the modern world today. At the heart of Christianity is the figure Jesus. What would you have me speak of? I talk about the life and death and ressurection of Jesus Christ and I try to put it in a modern day context so that people may understand what Christianity is all about. It is about love. We say God is Love. We defend our God when He comes under attack, not because we feel He needs defending, but because it grieves us to here it. In defending God we are soothing our own spirits which find the blasphemies that are uttered an abomination. God blesses us in our faithfulness. I tell you this but you deny me. You say I am delusional. I tell you I am not. I believe that you dont believe me. I know that you do not believe me. But what of it? What is that to me? Should I stop talking about Christianity in a Religion sub forum because you and a few others do not believe me? I do not need others to support me here, to justify me. I do not need to provide evidence as you put it. I am not here to provide evidence to you or anyone else! Who do you guys think you are? This is a free forum available to the public but you treat it like it is your personal domain. You do your best to make people feel uncomfortable expecially people professing a Christian faith. I have put up with much patiently as others will testify. I am called a hypocrite when I have a different point of view as someone else! Why because I am a Christian? What Christians aren't allowed the same rights as other people now? Christian's arent allowed to have a different view as someone on here without being called a hypocrite? What rubbish. Grow up a bit. Wipe the cack out of your eyes. You are just forum post monkeys. Just like me. Everyone's opinion has gotta be respected right? That means mine too folks. You guys do not own this website as much as you like to think you do, it is run by David Watanabe in Melbourne, Australia who I would like to thank for making this website available to us. Thank him too yeah? And let's be nice. It is free after all.

Let James R decide.
My conscience is as clear as a bell.

Thanks

c20 :m:

c20, your sentence guilty as charged.

c20, your sentence guilty as charged.

That's a verdict not a sentence.
A sentence would be like "C20 you are banned for 1-Infinity seconds"
I'll wait for James R to decide. He is the moderator.

Thanks

c20

Ah.. Christians, always wanting to play the role of martyr. :bugeye:

SnakeLord: Ah.. Christians, always wanting to play the role of martyr. :bugeye:
*************
M*W: Where there is possible guilt -- there is likely a possible defense.

I must say though, you do seem to display the traits of a sociopath, c20.
I think fahrenheit had it right when he posted this.


Glibness/Superficial Charm
Language can be used without effort by them to confuse and convince their audience. Captivating storytellers that exude self-confidence, they can spin a web that intrigues others. Since they are persuasive, they have the capacity to destroy their critics verbally or emotionally.



Manipulative and Cunning
They never recognize the rights of others and see their self-serving behaviors permissible. They appear to be charming, yet are covertly hostile and domineering, seeing their victim as merely an instrument to be used. They dominate and humiliate their victims.



Grandiose Sense of Self
Feels entitled to certain things as "their right." Craves adulation and attendance. Must be the center of attention with their own fantasies as the "spokesman for God," "enlightened," "leader of humankind," etc. Creates an us-versus-them mentality



Pathological Lying
Has no problem lying coolly and easily and it is almost impossible for them to be truthful on a consistent basis. Can create, and get caught up in, a complex belief about their own powers and abilities. Extremely convincing and able to pass lie detector tests.

this is a excerpt, you are displaying some traits.

http://www.home.datawest.net/esn-re...rtcls/socio.htm

it appears to me c20, that you've somewhat shot yourself in the foot, with this post.
you have sentenced and found yourself guilty, well I've come to think of you as an amoeba for you lack of any intelligence, so you proved that.
but really your more like a flea, frigging irritating.
how I wish I had some flea spray.
and before you say I hate you, as i've said I dont know you to hate you, but I can dislike the way/what you write, and as thats just preaching and psychoanalizing people, I think I'm entitled.

SnakeLord: Ah.. Christians, always wanting to play the role of martyr. :bugeye:
*************
M*W: Where there is possible guilt -- there is likely a possible defense.
I dont think so M*W, he's put all his cards on the table and lost.
he is really what we all believe, him to be.
guilty guilty guiltyguiltyguilty

mis-t-highs: I dont think so M*W, he's put all his cards on the table and lost. he is really what we all believe, him to be.
guilty guilty guiltyguiltyguilty
*************
M*W: No doubt! What I meant was when someone is guilty of something they need to find an alibi. In his losing case, his only excuse is he defends himself with the bible and christianity. Therefore, the verdict is guilty as charged, and the sentence is death by ignorance.

In defence of C20 I would like to offer the court some evidence:

I offer you examples A, B, C, D and all the way to Z 100 times over, that show the problem not to be one of 'excuses', but instead one of ignorance.

His level of intelligence is highly questionable, and as a result, one should find him innocent merely because he has no ability for anything other than preaching. We've all seen how he cannot distinguish what a question is, and how he fails to comprehend most statements and sentences.

I would ask the court to indulge that he not be hanged just yet, but that the medical team be given a chance to analyze and study this specimen as much as modern day science will allow.

I would not necessarily question his intelligence, but he obviously has a stong faith, he is unmoveable in his beliefs, so how should he be able to discuss?

Also, I do not base my beliefs on simple personal preference, I normally take biological, anthropological, physical and historical facts as a basis for my arguments.
And yes, I am biased. To find truth, you need to be biased, just as someone who rather clings to elaborate lies and anachronism.

Whatever you do with C20, I think he is a pitiful existance.

I would ask the court to indulge that he not be hanged just yet,

but rather be thrown to the lions? ;)

Aww.. that was a bad joke.. :(

no southstar, I thought it apt, in the biblical sense.

I must ask. Why does everyone want c20 banned for his belief?

I'm hardly one to show support for c20 and his beliefs, but why ban him for not believing as we athiests do?

Personally I find him to be a hypocrite and a hateful bigot, but that's just me. If he is to be banned for his beliefs, it would only be fair and correct that we also be banned for our beliefs. We hold our views quite strongly, why shouldn't he hold his faith just as strongly.

Having said that.... Yes he preaches constantly, and that is against the rules of this forum and annoying as hell. c20, if you've been warned about preaching, why do you persist in continuing in this manner? I'm sure that even you can discuss religion and not preach. Many others do, so maybe you should follow their example and not preach in this forum. If you persist in being a religious gimp, then that is your choice. We on the other hand do not want you to preach to us. If you can't respect that, then don't throw a hissy fit when you face the consequence of your own actions.

I am called a hypocrite when I have a different point of view as someone else! Why because I am a Christian?
I don't call you a hypocrite because you're a Christian. I call you a hypocrite because you profess love and tolerance, when in reality you hate and are a bigot. There are many non-Christians who are also just like you in that regard and they, like you, are hypocrites.

What Christians aren't allowed the same rights as other people now? Christian's arent allowed to have a different view as someone on here without being called a hypocrite?
Now you have a small inkling of what homosexuals go through every day of their lives. Sucks not to be allowed the same rights, doesn't it? Sucks to be different to everyone else, doesn't it?

This is amusing. Here you are saying that your rights have been infringed, when you have stated in other threads that homosexuals should not be given the same rights as everyone else because they are different and because you find them abhorrent. And here we are, in the religious forum, where fellow members find you abhorrent for your views and beliefs and you are crying foul. Maybe I should turn your own argument on you and tell you that you should tell us how you would benefit all of us by having the rights you think you deserve? Isn't that the argument you used for homosexuals? That they should be able to show to society how they would benefit the whole by being homosexual before they are allowed any rights? Well c20, maybe now is the time for you to show to us how you being a Christian would benefit all of us in this forum, before you are allowed any rights and before you are allowed to remain a member. Just a heads up though c20, from what I've read so far in the responses to you in this forum, no one, with the exception of Lori, appears to be buying your argument, so this should be very difficult for you. It's horrible to be different and treated as such isn't it c20? Consider this a taste of your own medicine, if you will. Hmmm... maybe there is a God after all... scratch that... maybe one does get what one deserves in the end, and c20, you deserve it all. :)

Should you be banned? I vote no. If you continue to preach, then yes because you are willingly breaking the rules that govern the rest of us, but even though you are a hateful little specimen of a man, you should be allowed to have your faith.

Bells: I must ask. Why does everyone want c20 banned for his belief?
*************
M*W: NO ONE wants c20 banned for his BELIEFS -- it's the PREACHING that is annoying. Oh, poor c20, he's such a victim -- of his own doing! We've all tried to debate c20, but he refuses to debate. We've asked c20 direct questions we wanted him to answer, but he couldn't answer them. Then he posts asking others to find the answers for him! On sciforums, members who are of other faiths or of no faith at all should debate the issues or simply not reply to a post that angers them. We are still waiting for his answers to our questions. How long must we wait?

Ahh ok. Ermm I did mention the preaching thing in my previous post... At least I think I did. Anywho... Personally I know if he keeps up the preaching, I'll just ignore him... pretend he's not there.

As to how long you must wait? Heh.. good luck. There are still many questions that I've asked him that he's completely ignored, simply because he knows that if he answers them truthfully, he will realise that he is a bigot. So he doesn't answer them. Cowardly yes, but still amusing to watch. In short my dear MW, he won't answer the questions because he simply can't. He either does not know the answer or he's scared to answer them lest they betray his true feelings.

Guilty!

Yup he's a god botherer of the most annoying kind but the court should be merciful as religion is, as we know, a thought disorder.

Dee Cee

Yeah, I'd fight with my life for peoples right to believe any sort of mysticism they want. But the guy sounds like walking cliche - spouting the same circular arguments constantly. Of course he got banned it would just help feed is ''woe is me the persecuted xtian'' BS. But if he stays . . . any chance of putting a cliche-filter on him? :)

Maybe the dude is really a troll who is actually purposefully sounding like a lobotimized Pat Robertson?

For myself - I came to this forum to discuss religion with those who also have a religion. Perhaps to refine the fine points of my religion with like-minded friends. Instead what I have found is non-religeous hecklers flaming and attacking Christians to the point where like-minded Christians cannot have a decent conversation.

I, for one, think it is quite appropriate for C2o, or anyone else, to express their views without fearing reprisal and insult as the atheists on this forum are wont to do. I have never seen C2o flame anyone, but I have seen (and been the target of) many flames, primarily from the so-called prosecution on this thread.

What is the old saying... Oh yes - Physician Heal Thyself. Or maybe for this lot, it would be more appropriate to say - He who smelt it, dealt it!

America is a society where non-theists are the openly discriminated against minority, so whining about heckling and such from beLIEvers always seems a bit insecure. But anyways, the point of this sub-forum I think is to keep religious debates at least mostly confined to one section of Sci-Forums. Or do you think its cool for C20 to tell us all we are going to hell (though you don't think thats a ''flame'' it seems) but not ok for us to debate the message and messenger?

Maybe you want a Christians-Only discussion forum? That would be fine with me, see if they will make one for you.

America is a society where non-theists are the openly discriminated against minority, so whining about heckling and such from beLIEvers always seems a bit insecure. But anyways, the point of this sub-forum I think is to keep religious debates at least mostly confined to one section of Sci-Forums. Or do you think its cool for C20 to tell us all we are going to hell (though you don't think thats a ''flame'' it seems) but not ok for us to debate the message and messenger?

Maybe you want a Christians-Only discussion forum? That would be fine with me, see if they will make one for you.
I didn't say I wanted a Christians-Only forum (which would probably be very hard to define anyway), I just don't want to spend all my time pointlessly arguing whether there is any such thing as God. There is no answer to this debate since neither side can prove anything nor provide any evidence to support their view. That's the whole point. If there was proof, we would call it Science! What is the point of such a discussion?

It seems like a Religion Forum would pre-suppose a Religion - any Religion.

Since only 1/3 of humanity are Christians, and even within that 1/3 of humanity there are wildly conflicting interpretations of things . . . the burden of ''proof'' doesn't rest on non-theists.

If religion in no way affected a non-theists life, then it wouldn't make sense for us to be in this forum. But when evangalists sit in on foreign policy meetings with my f*cking president . . . when my tax dollars get diverted to ''faith based'' issues . . . when my president says he doesn't even think non-believers should be considered citizens . . . when every dollar I spend has a specific mono-theistic judeo-christian slogan printed on it . . . it becomes our business too.

End of rant. :)

Well, then go live in a society where the majority agrees with you. That's how the America's got started. Most of the original colonies were started by Christians fleeing persecution who wanted to live in a society of like-minded people. Although there has been a concerted effort to secularize America, it seems there is still at least a slim majority who want our culture and government to be based upon a basic set of moral guidelines as outlined in the Judeo-Christian religion. That's the whole point of a Republic. We had to put up with eight years of debauchery under Clinton - now its our turn for a little while.

What has this to do with my good colleague C2o having the fortitude to speak the truth despite the attacks and flames of intolerant non-believers.

Bullshit - the government of the United States of America is not, in any sense founded on the Christian religion

Many Religious Right activists have attempted to rewrite history by asserting that the United States government derived from Christian foundations, that our Founding Fathers originally aimed for a Christian nation. This idea simply does not hold to the historical evidence.

Of course many Americans did practice Christianity, but so also did many believe in deistic philosophy. Indeed, most of our influential Founding Fathers, although they respected the rights of other religionists, held to deism and Freemasonry beliefs rather than to Christianity. This country was founded on the ideals of FREEDOM for everybody to worship or not as they please.

"Christianity neither is, nor ever was a part of the common law."
-Thomas Jefferson, letter to Dr. Thomas Cooper, February 10, 1814

Turn your comment around . . . if you WANT to live in a society where there is state sponsered religion - move to Iran.

----------------------------

Hopefully Democracy can mean more than two wolves and a sheep voting on whats for dinner . . . .

Well, then go live in a society where the majority agrees with you. That's how the America's got started. Most of the original colonies were started by Christians fleeing persecution who wanted to live in a society of like-minded people. Although there has been a concerted effort to secularize America, it seems there is still at least a slim majority who want our culture and government to be based upon a basic set of moral guidelines as outlined in the Judeo-Christian religion. That's the whole point of a Republic. We had to put up with eight years of debauchery under Clinton - now its our turn for a little while.

What has this to do with my good colleague C2o having the fortitude to speak the truth despite the attacks and flames of intolerant non-believers.

David, what does "history" say though concerning those colonies? You're talking about pre-US constitution colonies. Yes, all or most were created under "Christian" charters or whatever. But that is not the document we live under. "Man has been endowed by his creator with certain, unalienable rights" was not necessarily a Christian statement. Deists were influential in the founding of this nation.

Wow - old GW could have been looking into the future with this one. Wordy but accurate:

"Of all the animosities which have existed among mankind, those which are caused by a difference of sentiments in religion appear to be the most inveterate and distressing, and ought to be deprecated. I was in hopes that the enlightened and liberal policy, which has marked the present age, would at least have reconciled Christians of every denomination so far that we should never again see the religious disputes carried to such a pitch as to endanger the peace of society."

-- George Washington, October 20, 1792

We had to put up with eight years of debauchery under Clinton

Ho Ho.
What debauchery would that be?
So whats gods prescribed punishment for extra marital fellatio?

Y'know modern xtians are sounding more like muslims (http://www.submission.org/sexual.html) with every passing day.
Bush on one side Osama on the other and us poor fuckin' normal folk stuck in the middle. :(

Meanwhile back at the topic....
You'll hear a lot of non-believers say "Worship how and who you want just don't ram it down my throat"
I guess thats the problem with c2o.
Dee Cee

David, what does "history" say though concerning those colonies? You're talking about pre-US constitution colonies. Yes, all or most were created under "Christian" charters or whatever. But that is not the document we live under. "Man has been endowed by his creator with certain, unalienable rights" was not necessarily a Christian statement. Deists were influential in the founding of this nation.
Yes, I agree. The America's existed for a century and a half prior to the writing of the Constitution. Those original colonies (most but not all) were founded as Christian communities and lived under Christian laws.

But, we are getting off the topic.

Why is C2o being persecuted for speaking (writing) his Christian beliefs - on a Religion Forum? Why can't we get past this unprovable question - true or false - about whether or not God exists - on a Religion Forum? Why can't I discuss Religion with fellow Christians, without being inundated by hecklers - on a Religion Forum?

Why can't we discuss how absolutely screwed up religion is, and its evil influence on the world . . . in a religion forum without getting heckled by Christians?

:)

I personally think C20 can talk all he wants in the Religion section here. Its when he preaches at us in other sections that it gets old fast.

Yes, I agree. The America's existed for a century and a half prior to the writing of the Constitution. Those original colonies (most but not all) were founded as Christian communities and lived under Christian laws.

But, we are getting off the topic.

Why is C2o being persecuted for speaking (writing) his Christian beliefs - on a Religion Forum? Why can't we get past this unprovable question - true or false - about whether or not God exists - on a Religion Forum? Why can't I discuss Religion with fellow Christians, without being inundated by hecklers - on a Religion Forum?

At least one reason I think people are annoyed with C20 is his constant preaching. And I know in C20's worldview, he is doing what he is supposed to be doing, "preaching the Gospel", so I personally will not blame him. But to some, and to me also, it gets on my nerves to see the.. well, how can I put it? Demonizing of non-Christians on this forum. I know he is doing it out of sincerity, or at least I think he is. Maybe if he.. toned it down somewhat it could help. After all, if Paul really "became all things to all people", then I suppose he might have put his gospel in a more friendly tone.

I think that's the problem many are having with C20. And that's why he's getting the backlash he's getting. So I see the reason why C20 is doing what he's doing, and why people are reacting to him as they are.

And I agree with you, there shouldn't be hecklers. But C20 has brought some of this on himself with the way he has preached the "gospel". It all depends on how you want to look at it. But if he's willing to .. just put it in a different, less demonizing language, maybe people would be more receptive to it. Perhaps he's been doing that very thing lately. Or I have gotten used to his posts. ;)

At least one reason I think people are annoyed with C20 is his constant preaching. And I know in C20's world view, he is doing what he is supposed to be doing, "preaching the Gospel", so I personally will not blame him. But to some, and to me also, it gets on my nerves to see the.. well, how can I put it? Demonizing of non-Christians on this forum. I know he is doing it out of sincerity, or at least I think he is. Maybe if he.. toned it down somewhat it could help. After all, if Paul really "became all things to all people", then I suppose he might have put his gospel in a more friendly tone.

I think that's the problem many are having with C20. And that's why he's getting the backlash he's getting. So I see the reason why C20 is doing what he's doing, and why people are reacting to him as they are.

And I agree with you, there shouldn't be hecklers. But C20 has brought some of this on himself with the way he has preached the "gospel". It all depends on how you want to look at it. It's an offense to the Greeks. ;) But if he's willing to .. just put it in a different, less demonizing language, maybe people would be more receptive to it. Perhaps he's been doing that very thing lately. Or I have gotten used to his posts. ;)
Yes, I suppose that view is a valid one, but it certainly seems the Christian Slamming from the other side is still much worse - just look at the Thread Subjects, you don't even have to read the content to notice that Christians are not welcome here.

Yes, I suppose that view is a valid one, but it certainly seems the Christian Slamming from the other side is still much worse - just look at the Thread Subjects, you don't even have to read the content to notice that Christians are not welcome here.

That's because we all have ideas in our mind when we see things. Like a Christian who sees a cross in a public place. It's great to him. But to a Jew, it could be a symbol of persecution, and death, and he could hate and fear that symbol for what it stands for. When some see "Christian", they think of the worst things imaginable. Crusades. Inquisition. etc. And to a Christian, when he thinks of an atheist, he may immediately equate that person with being immoral.

But yea, I'd probably agree with you that there is a strong anti-Christian slant.

Well, since we live under the Christian Taliban here in the USA -- our jobs, friendships, maybe even safety at risk if we were as open about our non-theist stance as they can be about their religious stance . . . we'd not feel deperate for places to vent. But we are desperate. It America you truly do risk your way of life if you dare come ''out of the closet'' about being a freethinker in many communities.

So we grab the few safe opportunities we have to openly discuss things!

Wow, I never even met this guy, but from what I understand he is a hypocritical christian. I'm not saying that all christians are hypocritical, but there are a good majority....

C20, can I give you a bit of advice that my uncle (who is an adament christian) told me concerning this issue? He said that there is no place in the bible that condones the way that fundamentalists preach the gospel in a discontenting manner. In Jesus' words, it tells christians to go and speak of him the way that he did. Jesus did that through gaining a relationship with the person that he was trying to convince of his cause. He then provided himself as a servant to that person, but if you notice, he never told them why he acted this way before they showed some interest. You cannot push your beliefs on others, it causes more rejection, you have to show people what you are about, and if they become interested in the way that you do things, you then explain it all to them.

I would just suggest to stop pissing people off with your beliefs. It's fine to express the way that you feel and what you believe, just dont do it in a negative way that demeans others.

:bugeye:

BTW C2O...

Wanna tell us the christian significance of the name you've chosen for yourself?;)
Perhaps I can even guess your denomination.
you don't wear a big colourful wool hat to church by any chance?
One that only you can see..

:D Dee Cee

Yes, I suppose that view is a valid one, but it certainly seems the Christian Slamming from the other side is still much worse - just look at the Thread Subjects, you don't even have to read the content to notice that Christians are not welcome here.

Christians are very welcome here. As long as they follow the norm of providing supporting evidence and using logic to defend their faith there is nothing wrong. When they start calling nonbelievers names like "brooding vipers" is when there is an obvious problem.

We had to put up with eight years of debauchery under Clinton

Ho Ho.
What debauchery would that be?
So whats gods prescribed punishment for extra marital fellatio?

Don't you know Dee, good Christians don't go in for marital fellatio. It's dirty to put one's mouth down there. But put an old man in priestly robes and a young boy in altar boy robes in front of him, and fellatio is then ok. Christians have devised a plan for those men as well. Move them onto another area where people just don't know that their children are at risk, and the process begins all over again. But it's ok right? Their leaders of their Christian communities right? Now excuse me while I spit out the gorge that's just risen into my mouth..

Yes, I agree. The America's existed for a century and a half prior to the writing of the Constitution. Those original colonies (most but not all) were founded as Christian communities and lived under Christian laws.
David, that is not a good argument. Christians were also known to slaughter the natives under those 'Christian laws'.

Why is C2o being persecuted for speaking (writing) his Christian beliefs - on a Religion Forum?
I think the problem here is that c20 does not just speak of his Christian beliefs. He preaches them and tries to ram them down our throats. I don't give a shit what c20 believes in. To each their own. But when he tries to ram his Christian preachings down our throats, and we say stop and he doesn't, then that is an insult and an abuse. His views are often bigotted, hateful and hypocritical and when faced with his own views, he retreats behind the Bible and tries to preach his way out of his own hypocrisy.

He doesn't discuss, he tries to convert. There's a big difference.

I don't think he should be banned for discussing religion, but when he preaches, against the rules that govern the rest of us, then something must be done. He either stops preaching or he doesn't and face the consequences.

Don't forget David, it was c20 who started this thread. Not anyone else. It was he who sought the persecution of others in the form of this thread. He opened his own can of worms and now he must be able to eat it without complaint.

When they start calling nonbelievers names like "brooding vipers" is when there is an obvious problem.
Heh.. I'd forgotten about that.

You know what it is that you people want? A Christian-bashing forum. Well then, rest assured because that is exactly what you have. Congratulations. You win. Hm...do you win? Maybe you should ask yourselves what the prize is.

I could cite where every one of the "accusers" have repeatedly, and I mean repeatedly as in almost every time they post, broken the "preaching rules" that they are accusing c2o of breaking. It's not that c2o isn't answering their questions...it's that they don't like his answers...plain and simple. And that my friends amounts to no crime on his part...just poor taste on your part.

Wow, I never even met this guy, but from what I understand he is a hypocritical christian. I'm not saying that all christians are hypocritical, but there are a good majority....

C20, can I give you a bit of advice that my uncle (who is an adament christian) told me concerning this issue? He said that there is no place in the bible that condones the way that fundamentalists preach the gospel in a discontenting manner. In Jesus' words, it tells christians to go and speak of him the way that he did. Jesus did that through gaining a relationship with the person that he was trying to convince of his cause. He then provided himself as a servant to that person, but if you notice, he never told them why he acted this way before they showed some interest. You cannot push your beliefs on others, it causes more rejection, you have to show people what you are about, and if they become interested in the way that you do things, you then explain it all to them.

I would just suggest to stop pissing people off with your beliefs. It's fine to express the way that you feel and what you believe, just dont do it in a negative way that demeans others.

:bugeye:

That's the whole point...HE DOESN'T DO IT IN A NEGATIVE WAY THAT DEMEANS OTHERS. That's what they are guilty of themselves. What he does is expresses the way that he feels and what he believes, and he does so in a mild-mannered and humble way...AND has as a reference The Holy Bible and Jesus Christ. There are no more well-known nor widely accepted references available. This is a witch-hunt. And you point your fingers at the churchies...you people are worse!

That's the whole point...HE DOESN'T DO IT IN A NEGATIVE WAY THAT DEMEANS OTHERS. That's what they are guilty of themselves. What he does is expresses the way that he feels and what he believes, and he does so in a mild-mannered and humble way...AND has as a reference The Holy Bible and Jesus Christ. There are no more well-known nor widely accepted references available. This is a witch-hunt. And you point your fingers at the churchies...you people are worse!

Lori, here's the point though. You think it's not in a negative way that demeans others, because you believe in the Bible, right? So if C20 calls people a "brood of vipers", it's fine to you, isn't it? But to those who don't believe in the Bible, it can be offensive. You can understand this, right?

And who are "you people"? Are you including me in that? Have I attacked him? Just wondering why you don't put your language in more specific terms, unless you are including me. Are you? Didn't I defend him? While also defending a non-Christian viewpoint?

Lori, here's the point though. You think it's not in a negative way that demeans others, because you believe in the Bible, right? So if C20 calls people a "brood of vipers", it's fine to you, isn't it? But to those who don't believe in the Bible, it can be offensive. You can understand this, right?

You know what? I read this thread and guess what I'd call it...yep, an f'ing brood of f'ing vipers. I call it like I see it. You people have a problem with honesty? You don't like being called a viper? Don't be one.

Lori, here's the point though. You think it's not in a negative way that demeans others, because you believe in the Bible, right? So if C20 calls people a "brood of vipers", it's fine to you, isn't it? But to those who don't believe in the Bible, it can be offensive. You can understand this, right?

And who are "you people"? Are you including me in that? Have I attacked him? Just wondering why you don't put your language in more specific terms, unless you are including me. Are you? Didn't I defend him? While also defending a non-Christian viewpoint?

No, I'm not including you...I'm speaking generally to those who know who they are.

You know what? I read this thread and guess what I'd call it...yep, an f'ing brood of f'ing vipers. I call it like I see it. You people have a problem with honesty? You don't like being called a viper? Don't be one.

I don't have a problem with honesty. I have a problem with incorrect honesty though. Read it again if you wish. Ask C20 if he considers my attitude toward him to be "viperous". Ask him. I'm curious what he'll say. If he thinks that, then fine.

No, I'm not including you...I'm speaking generally to those who know who they are.

:) :)

My problem with this whole thing is not so much what anyone has done or not done, or said or not said, or that rules have been followed or not. My problem is the outrageous hypocrisy on the part of many....accusing him of doing the very same thing that they themselves do on a regular basis. The only reason the "rules" were ever brought out was because they didn't like what he was saying, not how he was saying it, or the format within which he was saying it. And I thought that religious people were hypocrits...they have nothing on some of you out here. I thought that it was the churchies that loved to point their fingers in judgement? I see that they don't have that market cornered like I thought they did after all.

You know what it is that you people want? A Christian-bashing forum. Well then, rest assured because that is exactly what you have. Congratulations. You win. Hm...do you win? Maybe you should ask yourselves what the prize is.

On the contrary, most of us want a forum where religion can be discussed in a calm rational manner, sans preaching.

I could cite where every one of the "accusers" have repeatedly, and I mean repeatedly as in almost every time they post, broken the "preaching rules" that they are accusing c2o of breaking. It's not that c2o isn't answering their questions...it's that they don't like his answers...plain and simple. And that my friends amounts to no crime on his part...just poor taste on your part.
So we all quote the bible and tell people how they are wrong according to what the bible teaches? And Lori, I commend you for defending c20, but you must accept the fact that he repeatedly does not answer questions. Any question that he faces in regards to his beliefs, that he knows if he answers truthfully will contradict those teachings, he does not answer. He's not the only one who does it and he won't be the last. If we don't like his answers when he actually answers a question, we tell him so, and what do we get in return? Instead of a rational answer, we are preached to. We do not wish to be converted Lori.

That's the whole point...HE DOESN'T DO IT IN A NEGATIVE WAY THAT DEMEANS OTHERS.
He doesn't? He is the same individual who called homosexuals abhorrent and disgusting is he not? Regardless of the fact that homosexuals were also taking part in that discussion. You don't consider that to be negative or demeaning? And when it's turned on him, he cries foul.

What he does is expresses the way that he feels and what he believes, and he does so in a mild-mannered and humble way...
Yes, telling others that they are evil, disgusting, abhorrent, blood of vipers, etc, so humble and mild-mannered. :rolleyes:

AND has as a reference The Holy Bible and Jesus Christ. There are no more well-known nor widely accepted references available. This is a witch-hunt. And you point your fingers at the churchies...you people are worse!
I don't consider the bible or Christ to be widely accepted references.

And Lori, you forget who started this so called witch hunt. It was c20 himself who started this thread and instigated all this hoopla. It was he who decided to be a martyr, no one forced him to start this thread.

You know what? I read this thread and guess what I'd call it...yep, an f'ing brood of f'ing vipers. I call it like I see it. You people have a problem with honesty? You don't like being called a viper? Don't be one.
Again, it was c20 who started this thread. That would make him the biggest viper of the lot, wouldn't you say?

No, I'm not including you...I'm speaking generally to those who know who they are.
Yes I know who I am, but thank you for reminding me.

The only reason the "rules" were ever brought out was because they didn't like what he was saying, not how he was saying it, or the format within which he was saying it.
Yes, we don't like being preached to. That's the whole point of this thread.

My accusers are right. I am a hypocrite. I profess the love of Jesus and yet I would not treat all people equally. I am a sinner. Only God is good. Jesus died for everyone. This is why I exalt Him. Pay no mind to me. I am just a man like you. A sinner like you.
I am sorry for the upset I have caused you. I am not your judge. And I am sorry.

peace

c20

Yo jurydudies,

In defense of c20 I must say that I don`t find him offensive or rude as much as passionate. As a self confessed wierdo, I even find him endearing. He is looking at the world through his reborn eyes and I think he is applying honesty from the unique perspective of his belief. On this forum we can choose what we read or who we debate with. Empower/Disempower, the choice is yours. He certainly comes across as "happy", and that is something this world is in serious need of.

Ahem.

Yeah - this whole thing is a bit out of hand. Who gives a damn what silliness he beLIEves in. "Religions change, beer and wine remain" -- he just needs to stop interjecting Babble thumping (excuse me - BIBLE thumping) cliches into every thread he belongs to in sections other than religion. He can preach away in this one, if he does it enough - maybe he'll get his own little section where he can just babble away to himself.

Anyways, even if this is one small section of the world where Xtians are being called on the carpet - so what? Here in the USA at least we live in a society where this RARELY happens - though they are so insecure and sensitive that if out of 1000 little messages/symbols one sees in a day about religion . . . just ONE is critical of it, then they think they are "persecuted'' and get this ''we are martyrs'' garbage going.

Here in America, on the streets, on TV, the Radio, in Newspapers - the ratio of pro-Christian to anti-Christian messages is 1000 to 1, at least. So if the ratio of critical thinkers is higher here on the SCI-forum, so be it. There are thousands of devoutly Xtian discussion groups on the internet for them if they want that.

Life in our anti-christian America (http://www.sciforums.com/showthread.php?p=714078#post714078)

C2o - Jesus too called the intellectual elite of his time vipers and hypocrites. I just have one scripture for you:
Matthew 7:6
Give not that which is holy unto the dogs, neither cast ye your pearls before swine, lest they trample them under their feet, and turn again and rend you.
You can judge for yourself what are pearls and who is swine.

Jesus too called the intellectual elite of his time vipers and hypocrites

Ah so thats where he got the phrase from and he didn't even credit it. I believe plagiarism is not allowed round here....
"the intellectual elite of his time" What? You mean the Sanhedrin? I thought they were priests.

So if jesus is allowed to dis the local theocracy why can't we be accorded the same pleasure? (and it is a pleasure)

I'm sorry I'm trying to cut back on the viperish behaviour but I can't help myself. Never mind, I know god will forgive me even if the christians don't.

Dee Cee (callsign Viper 1) :cool:

BTW CO2 did you find god before or after you started using LSD?

BTW [B]CO2 did you find god before or after you started using LSD?

After.

After.

But I consider that He found me rather than the other way round. There is one hell of a difference.

peace

c20

C2o - Jesus too called the intellectual elite of his time vipers and hypocrites. I just have one scripture for you:
Matthew 7:6
Give not that which is holy unto the dogs, neither cast ye your pearls before swine, lest they trample them under their feet, and turn again and rend you.
You can judge for yourself what are pearls and who is swine.

Hi David,

Thanks for your support. I am learning an important lesson here though.
These people are not swine. They are flesh and blood like I am. If they are swine then so am I. We are just men born of women after all. Nothing is really trampled. The text is there for all to see. For all human eyes that have an interest. The words go in. What happens after that is God's business.

your brother

c20 :m:

Ah. After. "He" found you after you started using LSD.

Ok.

You do know, C20, that historically psychedelics have been used to help a variety of people/tribes/superstitions ''see'' their gods/goddesses/totems/demons and etc?

Perhaps c20 needs to be forgiven his habit of descending into raving. Timothy Leary always said you need to be sure of having a proper set, setting and guide before tripping. A few powerful trips without such . . . anything can happen to your mind. And no amount of discussion will ever dissuade him now from what he just *knows* he has seen/felt/heard.

But, we can still demand that the ravings be in proper context and place on this board.

After

Go figure...

I never found god with lsd. Found a hair in my mouth once but I never was able to fish the bugger out. ;)

Dee Cee

My past LSD use and my subsequent conversion to Christianity are related in the grand scheme of things yet remain unrelated in the context you would have them conjoined.


peace

c20

C2o - Jesus too called the intellectual elite of his time vipers and hypocrites. I just have one scripture for you:
Matthew 7:6
Give not that which is holy unto the dogs, neither cast ye your pearls before swine, lest they trample them under their feet, and turn again and rend you.
You can judge for yourself what are pearls and who is swine.
Well I'd hardly call the people here the intellectual elite... :p

Dee Cee (callsign Viper 1)
Stand in line Mr D, I think you call sign is probably Viper 5 or 6. ;)

I never found god with lsd. Found a hair in my mouth once but I never was able to fish the bugger out.
Maybe next time you should be careful to make sure that the carpet you're licking is not molting or shedding.

Ok, I've just disgusted even myself... moving right along...

These people are not swine. They are flesh and blood like I am. If they are swine then so am I. We are just men born of women after all.
Walk in a man's shoes before you judge them. Next time you're judge people as being blood vipers, swine, abhorrent, disgusting, etc, imagine how you'd feel if others treated you the same way. You expect tolerance, but such tolerance won't be shown until you are tolerant of others.

My past LSD use and my subsequent conversion to Christianity are related in the grand scheme of things yet remain unrelated in the context you would have them conjoined.


Uh huh.


When on a nice acid trip back in College I saw a sexy ghost and she sidled up and began whispering lewd and hot promises into my ear - it too was real, and the coincidental use of LSD at the same time as the visit from the sex goddess are "related in the grand scheme of things yet remain unrelated in the context you would have them conjoined".

You expect tolerance, but such tolerance won't be shown until you are tolerant of others.

Have we reached a mutual agreement then?

peace

c20 :m:

You stop preaching and being a bigot, sure we have an agreement.

Thought this might help everyone ...

tol·er·ance ( P ) Pronunciation Key (tlr-ns)
n.
The capacity for or the practice of recognizing and respecting the beliefs or practices of others.

Leeway for variation from a standard.
The permissible deviation from a specified value of a structural dimension, often expressed as a percent.
The capacity to endure hardship or pain.

peace

c20

You stop preaching and being a bigot, sure we have an agreement.


Tolerance tolerates Bells, unconditionally.

peace

c20

You see tolerance tolerates the practises as well as beliefs. I tolerate you. But that's all it is. Tolerance. I cannot agree with you. I can only bear you. Give you leeway to practise the things you practise. I must not be told to like the things you do. The moment you do that you are imposing your will on me which of course will never be tolerated in a system of free will.
You preach freedom for homosexuals and the like. I preach the death and ressurection of Jesus Christ. I will tolerate your preaching. You tolerate mine. Do we still have an agreement?

peace

c20

You see tolerance tolerates the practises as well as beliefs. I tolerate you. But that's all it is. Tolerance. I cannot agree with you. I can only bear you. Give you leeway to practise the things you practise. I must not be told to like the things you do. The moment you do that you are imposing your will on me which of course will never be tolerated in a system of free will.
You preach freedom for homosexuals and the like. I preach the death and ressurection of Jesus Christ. I will tolerate your preaching. You tolerate mine. Do we still have an agreement?

peace

c20
How rich of you c20. You don't tolerate c20, you judge and you try to convert. While you continue to judge others and refer to them as being disgusting, abhorrent, evil, don't expect others to be tolerant of you or your beliefs. Call it the defense mechanism that is built in all creatures. You preach the death and ressurection of Christ, yet you refer to others as being abhorrent and all the rest of the vile things you've said in the past. Do you not see the irony in that?

You preach about a system of free will, but won't allow it for certain groups in society. Have I asked you to like homosexuals? No, I merely asked that they be afforded the same rights as everyone else, including you. Is my saying that we should all be free to be who we are imposing my will on you? As I said to you before c20, tolerance begets tolerance. It works both ways.

You wish to preach to us, we will preach to you. You continue to judge others in the manner that you have been doing, then you too shall be judged. It's a two way street.

Thought this might help everyone ...

tol·er·ance ( P ) Pronunciation Key (tlr-ns)
n.

The capacity to endure hardship or pain.

c20


Curious that in your whining and moaning you forgot this part of the definition.

Why ban anyone?
It is a discussion forum and he is saying what he believes. Preaching or not, you can decide not to listen or agree.

It is always interesting to keep an open mind and see what others think. You can sometimes get a new prospect that you have never thought or will never think of.
Even if here comes a Satan worshipper, it will be interesting to know his beliefs.

Edit: typo fix

Curious that in your whining and moaning you forgot this part of the definition.


A two way street no?

Phillipians 2
14 Do everything without complaining or arguing,

Phillipians 2
14 Do everything without complaining or arguing,

A two way street no?

Look, C2O, all the people here are asking for is for you to debate without preaching. As someone said (I cannot remember who) we do not want to be converted, the same way you do not want to be friends with any homosexuals. WE state our point, you state a counter-point that does not consist of hate or conversion tactics. Do you understand why people are upset? I don't necessarily think that you should be banned, but I think that now that this has been brought to your attention (with your prodding) you should cut it out. Nobody likes to hear a hate-filled or biggoted message, it simply dows not go along with what you are preaching yourself. If people want to be converted, they will notice a message in your post, or the way that you are so devoted to this, and will have to find it on their own. You can walk with them, but you cannot force them to walk.

"You cannot lead a horse to water and make him drink, but you can lead a horse to water and make him awfully thirsty." Try that approach, and I bet you will be quite a bit more respected, and a lot more successful.

Best of wishes.

A two way street no?

Not every road has two ways.

Sure you can make him drink - just feed him some salt, he'll drink!

Sure you can make him drink - just feed him some salt, he'll drink!


lmao

Not every road has two ways.

Jesus speaks in Matthew 7:13, "enter ye in by the narrow gate:
for wide is the gate, and broad is the way, that leadeth to
destruction, and many are they that enter in thereby."

It really is that cut and dry. Black and white. Like text on a page.

Jesus speaks in Matthew 7:13, "enter ye in by the narrow gate:
for wide is the gate, and broad is the way, that leadeth to
destruction, and many are they that enter in thereby."

It really is that cut and dry. Black and white. Like text on a page.

In Deut 21:20-21 it says that you should kill unruly or rebellious children.

In Num 31:17, Deut 20:13, Psalm 137:9, and Lev 26:29 it says you should kill the children and babies of enemies.

In Ex 35:2 it says you should kill anybody who works on a Sunday.

AND (before the "But thats OT" BS gets pulled out)

In Matt 5:17-19 it says that all the OT laws still apply in the NT.

It really is that cut and dry. Black and white. Like text on a page . . . oh wait, it *IS* text on a page! :)

c20H25N3o: Jesus speaks in Matthew 7:13, "enter ye in by the narrow gate: for wide is the gate, and broad is the way, that leadeth to destruction, and many are they that enter in thereby."

It really is that cut and dry. Black and white. Like text on a page.
*************
M*W: Biblical scholars don't know who actually wrote the Gospel of Matthew, but for this moment, let's assume Matthew transcribed what Paul dictated to him about the Jesus he never knew. No one truly knows what Jesus may have said, because Paul created the mythology of christianity. The 'narrow gate' that Paul had Matthew write was he, himself -- Paul. Paul was the 'narrow gate' he convinced people to enter in. It's not as cut-and-dried as you believe. Have you ever read a periodical called Biblical Archeology Review? This journal reports the research of biblical scholars.

It matters not who wrote it. The words are power.

Really? Cool. So since it says in Deut. 17:6 that we should kill anybody who is accused by at least two people of wickedness . . . my friend and I can go around town and do a little ''clean up''? :)

(I'm kidding of course BTW)

"enter ye in by the narrow gate: for wide is the gate, and broad is the way, that leadeth to destruction, and many are they that enter in thereby."

Let me break it down.

Here is a voice that is for you undeniably...


enter ye in by the narrow gate:


... it seems to be a life and death decision giving voice advising you to take the narrow gate whatever that might be.


for wide is the gate, and broad is the way, that leadeth to destruction


I was right! The wide gate, for which the path seems to be widely traveled (broad is the way), leads to destruction!

Destruction sounds nasty. How do I avoid destruction? Err... narrow gate stupid! What the flip is a narrow gate? What the hell is this voice on about?

Now I am panicking. How the hell do I avoid destruction? Well I am not convinced that I am not destroyed so I must be on the wide path thing. Dang! Help! What am I to do?

Then I start to think "I need eternal life here"

Then I start to remember I am reading the bible.

Then I ask God

Then He says "My grace is sufficient for thee"

Then I rest.

Twas Grace that taught my heart to fear and was grace my heart relieved.

Then I have a whole heap of questions of God. Then the Spirit of God takes me to high places where I see more clearly though still very dimly. I crave the fruits of the spirit. My life is being transformed.

The unspiritual man does not receive the gifts of the Spirit of God, for they are folly to him, and he is not able to understand them because they are spiritually discerned. The spiritual man judges all things, but is himself to be judged by no one. "For who has known the mind of the Lord so as to instruct Him?" But we have the mind of Christ. {1 Cor 2:14-16 RSV}

http://www.pbc.org/dp/stedman/1corinthians/3577.html

Jesus speaks in Matthew 7:13, "enter ye in by the narrow gate:
for wide is the gate, and broad is the way, that leadeth to
destruction, and many are they that enter in thereby."

It really is that cut and dry. Black and white. Like text on a page.

Either you are an idiot or you can't read:

It still doesn't mean all roads go both ways :m:

Either you are an idiot or you can't read:

It still doesn't mean all roads go both ways :m:

This is a public website. The traffic is bound to go in all directions. Web traffic. From all over the world. Thanks David Watanabe for making it publicly available to us.

I have no idea what you mean by one way traffic in this context. Unless you are suggesting that you have a right to supress me and my words because you do not like the look of my text on a page? It is harmless enough. I express my faith and it angers you. I have no idea why. I try to make peace with you and you do not accept it. What more can I do with you?
Go to my profile and click "Ignore this User" if it will make things easier whilst browsing freely on SciForums. The same goes for anyone else. It's what the ignore button is for. Use it if you must, else shut up. You have your say and I'll have mine. If I'm banned it will not be your decision. It will be James R's decision and I will respect that decision.

God bless

c20

enter ye in by the narrow gate: for wide is the gate, and broad is the way, that leadeth to destruction, and many are they that enter in thereby."

Let me break it down.

Here is a voice that is for you undeniably...have you not learned anything (this is you, "you must listen, I must convert you" preach, preach, f@*#ing preach. ) f@*# off.
we dont want, I repeat want to be converted.

have you not learned anything (this is you, "you must listen, I must convert you" preach, preach, f@*#ing preach. ) f@*# off.
we dont want, I repeat want to be converted.

Use the ignore button. Easy.

Either you are an idiot or you can't read:

It still doesn't mean all roads go both ways :m:
I'm watching to see if anyone will deplore SouthStar for using the word idiot in the same fashion everyone seems to attack C2o for using the word Viper... No takers yet... I wonder why? Could it be that there really is Hypocrisy here?

Maybe C2o is right!

This is a public website. The traffic is bound to go in all directions. Web traffic. From all over the world. Thanks David Watanabe for making it publicly available to us.

I have no idea what you mean by one way traffic in this context. Unless you are suggesting that you have a right to supress me and my words because you do not like the look of my text on a page? It is harmless enough. I express my faith and it angers you. I have no idea why. I try to make peace with you and you do not accept it. What more can I do with you?
Go to my profile and click "Ignore this User" if it will make things easier whilst browsing freely on SciForums. The same goes for anyone else. It's what the ignore button is for. Use it if you must, else shut up. You have your say and I'll have mine. If I'm banned it will not be your decision. It will be James R's decision and I will respect that decision.

God bless

c20
I had a short talk with one of the moderators after someone tried to have me banned a few months ago. It seems that the moderators as a whole have to agree to ban someone - not just the opinion of one moderator - or so I have been told.

I had a short talk with one of the moderators after someone tried to have me banned a few months ago. It seems that the moderators as a whole have to agree to ban someone - not just the opinion of one moderator - or so I have been told.


Thanks. I will of course respect any decision :)

to use ignore is to lose half of the debate, even if the would be ignorie, has nothing worthwhile to say, it still helps to follow a thread.
all anybody wants is for you, to stop preaching and start debating.
it's that simple.

I'm watching to see if anyone will deplore SouthStar for using the word idiot in the same fashion everyone seems to attack C2o for using the word Viper... No takers yet... I wonder why? Could it be that there really is Hypocrisy here?

Maybe C2o is right!

I strangle my fingers from writing the same of someone else here.

Do you mind actually looking at the contexts of our independent statements before making such a stupid comment?

See here for a parallel before replying:
http://www.sciforums.com/showthread.php?p=714484#post714484

I strangle my fingers from writing the same of someone else here.

Do you mind actually looking at the contexts of our independent statements before making such a stupid comment?

See here for a parallel before replying:
http://www.sciforums.com/showthread.php?p=714484#post714484

In that link we have altec telling me I should love God with all my mind body soul by wait for it """reading books""". I have done nothing but express my love for God and Jesus and was speaking of how I had been transformed by it. I was and have been worshipping God's great grace. This is why I was asking altec if he was blind. It is interesting in context is is not??? Wake up will you!

peace

c20

to use ignore is to lose half of the debate, even if the would be ignorie, has nothing worthwhile to say, it still helps to follow a thread.
all anybody wants is for you, to stop preaching and start debating.
it's that simple.

I cannot debate faith . It is not a debatable thing to the one who holds it. I can discuss it but I cannot debate it. I can tell you how I feel about things. I can tell you what I know of God. I can share with you my experiences of life through discussion and taking questions. I cannot negate my faith for your sake. I believe I should share the Good News. I am not saying you have to listen. It is your choice. Pointing to apparent discrepancies in the Bible does not change my faith. My faith is internalized. Solid. Developed over 14 years with the help of the Holy Spirit whom others here have testified to receiving upon believing in Him. I see God's anger and God's mercy. His mercy is life to us. Eternal life.
If you want to communicate with me where I am you must talk to me accepting that my faith cannot and will not be changed by you. I have built my house on very very solid foundations. I am happy to discuss my faith but I cannot debate it. I beg at least that much respect for a man's faith.

peace

c20

In that link we have altec telling me I should love God with all my mind body soul by wait for it """reading books""". I have done nothing but express my love for God and Jesus and was speaking of how I had been transformed by it. I was and have been worshipping God's great grace. This is why I was asking altec if he was blind. It is interesting in context is is not??? Wake up will you!

peace

c20

Blind in the Bible usually means "ignorant". I fail to see how that is farther than a stone's throw from "idiot" in this context.

Nothing to squabble over any way.

c20H25N3o: I cannot debate faith . It is not a debatable thing to the one who holds it. I can discuss it but I cannot debate it.
*************
M*W: People restrained in rubber rooms cannot debate their delusions either. They can talk about their delusions 24/7, but they cannot debate it. The reason -- they can only see the delusion -- but they cannot see through their delusion.
*************
c20: I can tell you how I feel about things. I can tell you what I know of God. I can share with you my experiences of life through discussion and taking questions. I cannot negate my faith for your sake.
*************
M*W: Delusional people can tell us how they feel about their delusions. They can tell us everything they know about their delusions and how their delusions affected their lives. They interact naturally with their delusions, because they believe their delusions ARE real -- and they ARE real in their minds. Religious people are delusional. How many times have you seen a devout christian who was just a normal guy?
*************
c20: I believe I should share the Good News. I am not saying you have to listen. It is your choice.
*************
M*W: Delusional people desperately want to share their delusions with everyone they meet. Of course, most of us know they're delusional and we don't listen. That is our choice.
*************
c20: Pointing to apparent discrepancies in the Bible does not change my faith. My faith is internalized. Solid. Developed over 14 years with the help of the Holy Spirit whom others here have testified to receiving upon believing in Him. I see God's anger and God's mercy. His mercy is life to us. Eternal life.
*************
M*W: You cannot see beyond your delusion just like the people restrained in rubber rooms cannot see beyond theirs. Your 'faith' has overcome your own being. You've had 14 years to create your delusion, and I feel certain that you do have a close solid internalized belief that you are filled with the 'holy spirit.' Many delusional people believe they are invincible, that they could beat sin and death. Delusional people always trust and believe in their delusions, because that's all they have. They have no reality. They are addicted to their delusions. Fantastic delusions can be very addicting. They feel that they have 'special' knowledge -- a knowledge that is only imparted to them. They delusions lead them to telling the world about their 'special' knowledge, because no one else experiences their delusions like they do. Not only will delusional people never experience eternal life, they've lost the reality of this life. That's why god made rubber rooms. Your delusions tell us that is where you should be.

If you want to communicate with me where I am you must talk to me accepting that my faith cannot and will not be changed by you. I have built my house on very very solid foundations. I am happy to discuss my faith but I cannot debate it. I beg at least that much respect for a man's faith.

peace

c20[/QUOTE]

Thanks David Watanabe for making it publicly available to us.

Yo! Porf be careful when you sit down you might do this lad some damage. :)

C2 we might be cruel to you but the chances of your getting banned are pretty close to zero.

What would us vipers do without you?
Dee Cee

c20H25N3o: I cannot debate faith . It is not a debatable thing to the one who holds it. I can discuss it but I cannot debate it.
*************
M*W: People restrained in rubber rooms cannot debate their delusions either. They can talk about their delusions 24/7, but they cannot debate it. The reason -- they can only see the delusion -- but they cannot see through their delusion.
*************
c20: I can tell you how I feel about things. I can tell you what I know of God. I can share with you my experiences of life through discussion and taking questions. I cannot negate my faith for your sake.
*************
M*W: Delusional people can tell us how they feel about their delusions. They can tell us everything they know about their delusions and how their delusions affected their lives. They interact naturally with their delusions, because they believe their delusions ARE real -- and they ARE real in their minds. Religious people are delusional. How many times have you seen a devout christian who was just a normal guy?
*************
c20: I believe I should share the Good News. I am not saying you have to listen. It is your choice.
*************
M*W: Delusional people desperately want to share their delusions with everyone they meet. Of course, most of us know they're delusional and we don't listen. That is our choice.
*************
c20: Pointing to apparent discrepancies in the Bible does not change my faith. My faith is internalized. Solid. Developed over 14 years with the help of the Holy Spirit whom others here have testified to receiving upon believing in Him. I see God's anger and God's mercy. His mercy is life to us. Eternal life.
*************
M*W: You cannot see beyond your delusion just like the people restrained in rubber rooms cannot see beyond theirs. Your 'faith' has overcome your own being. You've had 14 years to create your delusion, and I feel certain that you do have a close solid internalized belief that you are filled with the 'holy spirit.' Many delusional people believe they are invincible, that they could beat sin and death. Delusional people always trust and believe in their delusions, because that's all they have. They have no reality. They are addicted to their delusions. Fantastic delusions can be very addicting. They feel that they have 'special' knowledge -- a knowledge that is only imparted to them. They delusions lead them to telling the world about their 'special' knowledge, because no one else experiences their delusions like they do. Not only will delusional people never experience eternal life, they've lost the reality of this life. That's why god made rubber rooms. Your delusions tell us that is where you should be.

If you want to communicate with me where I am you must talk to me accepting that my faith cannot and will not be changed by you. I have built my house on very very solid foundations. I am happy to discuss my faith but I cannot debate it. I beg at least that much respect for a man's faith.

peace

c20[/QUOTE]

Worry about your own state of mind M*W.
I am a father of four, hold down a very good job as a senior analyst in which I earn a good deal of money (to support all these little monkies ;) ). I have a beautiful, intelligent caring wife who loves me very much and laughs when you call me delusional. She feels sorry for you. She says that you will probably get over your issues with Christianity soon enough.

God bless

C20

but does she laugh at everybody, when they call you delusional, or do you only show her selected threads, we all feel extremely sorry for you.
some of us have called you more than delusional, if the traits you display are correct, and I am absolutely sure they are now.
then she would be easily controlled a "stepford wife."


what I'd like to know is, why you constantly question your gods will.

but does she laugh at everybody, when they call you delusional, or do you only show her selected threads, we all feel extremely sorry for you.
some of us have called you more than delusional, if the traits you display are correct, and I am absolutely sure they are now.
then she would be easily controlled a "stepford wife."


what I'd like to know is, why you constantly question your gods will.

She knows exactly what it is I say. She has read all of your comments and smiles because she knows me and knows my faith. Her faith is very simple "Jesus loves me and that is enough for me and mine". She knows I am passionate about the Gospel. I have been since we met. The fact is she is a witness to my love and she loves me deeply so your words seem like folly to her. My children are beautiful well adjusted human beings who know their dad's love for them. They are top of their class at school and are extremely popular.
We know the gospel is hard on unbelievers. We have had many years of seeing the truth being rejected and despised by people who refuse God's love for them. It comes as no suprise to us. The more people push away from the truth the harder it is for them to accept it. It is easier to call a Christian delusional rather than back track and ask yourself why a senior analyst who earns £40000 a year and has four kids, a nice house and a gorgeous wife to boot would spend his precious time talking about a carpenter who lived 2000 years ago. Surely this guy must be delusional???
But I tell you I am not. My wife would tell you I am not. My kids would say "You do not know my dad. You should hear the wonderful stories he tells us. My dad is the best dad in the world." My boss (bless her cotton socks) would say "Without him this operation would not work"
You just cannot accept that I might be speaking the truth. Which of course I am. Do not take my word for it. Ask the thousands and thousands of Christians around the world whether they think Jesus came as a human being or not. Ask them whether Jesus is Lord or not. They will say He is Who Is because He says "I AM THAT I AM".
I rejoice when you call me delusional because I know my words have made their mark. You are fighting me now. Better to fight me than be indifferent to me. If you are luke warm I will spit you out.

peace

c20

Your delusional madness has also led you and your wife to a thick state of denial I see.


;)

Your delusional madness has also led you and your wife to a thick state of denial I see.


;)

Yes. Obviously :D

She knows exactly what it is I say. She has read all of your comments and smiles because she knows me and knows my faith. Her faith is very simple "Jesus loves me and that is enough for me and mine". She knows I am passionate about the Gospel. I have been since we met. The fact is she is a witness to my love and she loves me deeply so your words seem like folly to her. My children are beautiful well adjusted human beings who know their dad's love for them. They are top of their class at school and are extremely popular.

Let me guess. They attend christian school, where they will go until it is time for them to be off to Bob Jones University. That way they will always be popular and have friends? No?

We know the gospel is hard on unbelievers. We have had many years of seeing the truth being rejected and despised by people who refuse God's love for them. It comes as no suprise to us. The more people push away from the truth the harder it is for them to accept it. It is easier to call a Christian delusional rather than back track and ask yourself why a senior analyst who earns £40000 a year and has four kids, a nice house and a gorgeous wife to boot would spend his precious time talking about a carpenter who lived 2000 years ago. Surely this guy must be delusional???

The gospel is not hard on unbelievers. We, just like you, are set in our ways, and have reasons for believing what we do. That is what we have been trying to tell you alla along. We do not need you to convert us, and we do not want you to convert us.

By the way, there are many a drug addict and drunk that have the same sort of life, and that is their way of rationalizing the idea that they do not have a problem.

But I tell you I am not. My wife would tell you I am not. My kids would say "You do not know my dad. You should hear the wonderful stories he tells us. My dad is the best dad in the world."
You just cannot accept that I might be speaking the truth. Which of course I am. Do not take my word for it. Ask the thousands and thousands of Christians around the world whether they think Jesus came as a human being or not. Ask them whether Jesus is Lord or not. They will say He is Who Is because He says "I AM THAT I AM".

That is the point. You think you know the truth. I think I know the truth. What it comes down to is beliefs. And you cannot change another persons beliefs. We see you, and you are the epitome of why we arent christians.

I rejoice when you call me delusional because I know my words have made their mark. You are fighting me now. Better to fight me than be indifferent to me. If you are luke warm I will spit you out.

peace

c20

We are not fighting you, only mocking you. Your words have had no mark on me. I have met many stronger and more faithful christians than you, and ones who are not hypocritical. Ones who truly feel love in their heart and do not have room in there for bigotry. Those are the ones who have a mark, and you are not in that class. Believe me.

She knows exactly what it is I say. She has read all of your comments and smiles because she knows me and knows my faith. Her faith is very simple "Jesus loves me and that is enough for me and mine". She knows I am passionate about the Gospel. I have been since we met. The fact is she is a witness to my love and she loves me deeply so your words seem like folly to her. My children are beautiful well adjusted human beings who know their dad's love for them. They are top of their class at school and are extremely popular.
We know the gospel is hard on unbelievers. We have had many years of seeing the truth being rejected and despised by people who refuse God's love for them. It comes as no suprise to us. The more people push away from the truth the harder it is for them to accept it. It is easier to call a Christian delusional rather than back track and ask yourself why a senior analyst who earns £40000 a year and has four kids, a nice house and a gorgeous wife to boot would spend his precious time talking about a carpenter who lived 2000 years ago. Surely this guy must be delusional???
But I tell you I am not. My wife would tell you I am not. My kids would say "You do not know my dad. You should hear the wonderful stories he tells us. My dad is the best dad in the world." My boss (bless her cotton socks) would say "Without him this operation would not work"
You just cannot accept that I might be speaking the truth. Which of course I am. Do not take my word for it. Ask the thousands and thousands of Christians around the world whether they think Jesus came as a human being or not. Ask them whether Jesus is Lord or not. They will say He is Who Is because He says "I AM THAT I AM".
I rejoice when you call me delusional because I know my words have made their mark. You are fighting me now. Better to fight me than be indifferent to me. If you are luke warm I will spit you out.

peace

c20
why do you still constantly, question your gods will.

it made us unbelievers,who the hell are you to question your gods logic, or do you believe yourself to be better than your god.

Let me guess. They attend christian school, where they will go until it is time for them to be off to Bob Jones University. That way they will always be popular and have friends? No?


None of us even attend church my friend.


The gospel is not hard on unbelievers. We, just like you, are set in our ways, and have reasons for believing what we do. That is what we have been trying to tell you alla along. We do not need you to convert us, and we do not want you to convert us.


feel free to hit the ignore button anytime.


By the way, there are many a drug addict and drunk that have the same sort of life, and that is their way of rationalizing the idea that they do not have a problem.


Bless them.


That is the point. You think you know the truth. I think I know the truth. What it comes down to is beliefs. And you cannot change another persons beliefs. We see you, and you are the epitome of why we arent christians.


Press ignore. easy


We are not fighting you, only mocking you. Your words have had no mark on me. I have met many stronger and more faithful christians than you, and ones who are not hypocritical. Ones who truly feel love in their heart and do not have room in there for bigotry. Those are the ones who have a mark, and you are not in that class. Believe me.

I cannot compromise on what I believe to be evil. I also do not compare myself to others. That is what the heathen do for self justification.

peace

c20

We know the gospel is hard on unbelievers. We have had many years of seeing the truth being rejected and despised by people who refuse God's love for them. It comes as no suprise to us. The more people push away from the truth the harder it is for them to accept it.

Well, for one, I dispute the reason that Jesus would have had to die for the sins of mankind, because I fail to see the logic behind "original sin"="eternal death", or even if you want to say "one sin"="eternal death". That standard is ridiculously unfair, unrealistic, and impossible for a truly "loving" God to expect out of anyone, considering he supposedly created us in the first place. So it doesn't register in my mind as "justice", but as insanely cruel. You don't advocate the idea that one should be burnt at the stake for the most minor "sin", do you? And so that's how I see this clause in the Christian idea of atonement.

So when this clause fails, I fail to see why Jesus would have needed to die. And even if he would have, it would have been the epitome of injustice to put the "wrath" of God on a supposedly innocent Jesus, even if he willingly offered himself as a sacrifice. If I went up to you and told you to go ahead and stab me in the heart, do you think a court would say "Ok, this guy volunteered to be killed, so there will be no punishment for you because we don't consider what you did to be murder"? And even if you say that God didn't literally murder Jesus, but the Romans did, God's "wrath" was still on Jesus during that time, right? So it was colossally unfair, at least as to how I see it.

And if God's "wrath" were on Jesus, how does he have any left for "unbelievers"? If all of the sins of the world were really paid for by Jesus, then why do we need to accept it? Wouldn't it already have been paid for, whether we accept it or not?

And if you say God won't automatically forgive us if we don't want it, then why doesn't he just destroy us then? Why does he need to put us in hell? If he's omnipotent, he can destroy us, can't he? And I mean annihilation when I say destruction.

So Christianity fails in basically everything I consider to make sense. ;) And "Paul" may have recognized this when he said the "Gospel is foolishness to those who are perishing". Maybe that's because he knew it WAS "foolishness". ;)

c20: If you want to communicate with me where I am you must talk to me accepting that my faith cannot and will not be changed by you. I have built my house on very very solid foundations. I am happy to discuss my faith but I cannot debate it. I beg at least that much respect for a man's faith.
*************
M*W: No one wants to 'change your faith,' so quit playing the victim card. If all you are willing to do is 'discuss' your faith (i.e. preach to us), this is not the right forum for you. We come here to debate religious issues -- not to be preached to or converted back to false beliefs. Your attitude about our beliefs is one of hate and fear. That's neither healthy nor appropriate for you OR the other members of this forum. What you are saying is that you really don't want to discuss anything, you just aim to preach. There are many christian forums where they would welcome you to come and preach and feed each other with your similar delusions.

c20H25N3o: Worry about your own state of mind M*W. I am a father of four, hold down a very good job as a senior analyst in which I earn a good deal of money (to support all these little monkies ;) ). I have a beautiful, intelligent caring wife who loves me very much and laughs when you call me delusional. She feels sorry for you. She says that you will probably get over your issues with Christianity soon enough.
*************
M*W: I'm happy for you, c20, that you have the life that makes you happy. You seem content with it. That's all that matters. I also have a wonderful life. I raised four children ALONE. I educated myself and have been on faculty at a medical school teaching medical students, doctors, nurses, residents, etc., for a number of years, and now I am at retirement age feeling gratified at what I and my family has accomplished. I've lived a very full life and have no regrets. My grandchildren are who I live for now. They make it all worthwhile. With my children, I received my battle scars, with my grandchildren, I received the medals. So, I need no pity from anyone. I served my country honorably, I raised my children honorably, I am honored by my grandchildren, and I live a peaceful, happy life. God did not give me all these blessings; I gave myself these blessings. Jesus didn't die for us, but I would, and my children would. We have eternal life already, and do you know how we know it? I've traced our family tree back to the time of Charlemagne who was the most prolific king of all. In essence, everyone alive today is related to Charlemagne somehow. But as late as the 1300s we all have a common ancestor. In other words, we are all related, and, therefore, already have eternal life through our DNA. I believe if a person is not happy inside, they search for delusions to make them happy. I don't believe in delusions, I believe in reality. The only way one could see reality is to give up their delusions. I don't think you are able to do this, and the members of this forum want to debate realities not delusions. I believe you would be happier among your own kind, (christians), although your presence here gives us much to smirk about, because, unfortunately your posts are comic relief for us. You should ask yourself the question, "where is the right place to express my beliefs?" I'm sure god will give you the right answer.

I cannot debate faith . It is not a debatable thing to the one who holds it. I can discuss it but I cannot debate it. I can tell you how I feel about things. I can tell you what I know of God. I can share with you my experiences of life through discussion and taking questions. I cannot negate my faith for your sake. I believe I should share the Good News.

There is a difference between faith and dogma. Faith is based on a core of truths that can be defended, dogma cannot be defended because it doesn't exist on a platform of truths. You cannot defend your faith because it is dogma even to you.

But, this is a place for debate. This is not a place for preaching. That is why people are upset with you, and why the evidence shows you are breaking the "No Preaching" rule. You can accept that, and move on to a place that accepts your preaching, or you can continue to break the laws of these forums by preaching your dogma.

I am not sure whether it is right or wrong to exist in such a dogmatic state, but I do know that your actions on this board break the rules and is therefore wrong. There are plenty of other places that would embrace and adopt your dogma as their own, but this is not one of them and there are rules against it. So please stop preaching, and think about not visiting the Religion forum at all on this site if you cannot follow the rules. Be a man and accept that for this place to exist, rules must be followed as they must be in life.

www.worthyboards.com

http://forums.christiansunite.com

www.gospelfortoday.org/gftforum/

www.freejesus.net/home/viewforum.php?f=159

www.nwcreation.net/discusschristian.html

www.churchquest.com/forum/

www.e4god.com/forums.htm

http://pub8.ezboard.com/bchristiandiscussionzone73070

http://www.unicorne.org/orthodoxy/avril2003/forum.htm

www.biblegate.org/links/Forums/

http://www.polajenko.com/forum/truth

http://www.gmrnet.org/discussion_forums.htm

http://www.fresh-hope.com/forums/index.php

http://www.faithtofaith-facetoface.com

http://www.christianweb.ca/forum/index.php

http://www.christianboard.com/

---------------------------------------------------------

So C20, those are just a few of the THOUSANDS of Christian discussion forums out there. There are many more such forums out there then there are forums like this out there.

Soooooooo . . . . . . why the F* would you want to hang out someplace where your rants are generally not enjoyed?! When you could be in a place where you would be welcomed with open arms? You will convert nobody - so any self-rightous ideas about ''helping us'' are idiotic.

Go be with your own kind. Tell them about how you did Acid and then God found you. They'll be psyched, you can verbally pat each others backs and give each other virtual ego reach-arounds.

www.worthyboards.com

http://forums.christiansunite.com

www.gospelfortoday.org/gftforum/

www.freejesus.net/home/viewforum.php?f=159

www.nwcreation.net/discusschristian.html

www.churchquest.com/forum/

www.e4god.com/forums.htm

http://pub8.ezboard.com/bchristiandiscussionzone73070

http://www.unicorne.org/orthodoxy/avril2003/forum.htm

www.biblegate.org/links/Forums/

http://www.polajenko.com/forum/truth

http://www.gmrnet.org/discussion_forums.htm

http://www.fresh-hope.com/forums/index.php

http://www.faithtofaith-facetoface.com

http://www.christianweb.ca/forum/index.php

http://www.christianboard.com/

---------------------------------------------------------

So C20, those are just a few of the THOUSANDS of Christian discussion forums out there. There are many more such forums out there then there are forums like this out there.

Soooooooo . . . . . . why the F* would you want to hang out someplace where your rants are generally not enjoyed?! When you could be in a place where you would be welcomed with open arms? You will convert nobody - so any self-rightous ideas about ''helping us'' are idiotic.

Go be with your own kind. Tell them about how you did Acid and then God found you. They'll be psyched, you can verbally pat each others backs and give each other virtual ego reach-arounds.

I can't believe that you just posted what you did...this is hideous and an outrage, and contrary to everything that this board is supposed to be about. You should be ashamed of yourself. It is YOU that needs to find a new home where everyone agrees with YOU. Apparently that is what YOU are looking for, not c2o, and I would hope, not the majority of the people on this board. A debate forum in which everyone agreed and believed the same? That would make for a boring read and a lack of learning anything new now wouldn't it? What's the matter...afraid to learn? You sound just like a Nazi!

There is a difference between faith and dogma. Faith is based on a core of truths that can be defended, dogma cannot be defended because it doesn't exist on a platform of truths. You cannot defend your faith because it is dogma even to you.

But, this is a place for debate. This is not a place for preaching. That is why people are upset with you, and why the evidence shows you are breaking the "No Preaching" rule. You can accept that, and move on to a place that accepts your preaching, or you can continue to break the laws of these forums by preaching your dogma.

I am not sure whether it is right or wrong to exist in such a dogmatic state, but I do know that your actions on this board break the rules and is therefore wrong. There are plenty of other places that would embrace and adopt your dogma as their own, but this is not one of them and there are rules against it. So please stop preaching, and think about not visiting the Religion forum at all on this site if you cannot follow the rules. Be a man and accept that for this place to exist, rules must be followed as they must be in life.

dog·ma ( P ) Pronunciation Key (dôgm, dg-)
n. pl. dog·mas or dog·ma·ta (-m-t)
A doctrine or a corpus of doctrines relating to matters such as morality and faith, set forth in an authoritative manner by a church.

I am always happy to back up my statements with the Holy Book as authorised by the Vatican in Rome. I often do. It is the message that people object to. I cannot help that. When challenged I respond with the truth of my faith. I cannot for example make compromise with the world. This is against my religion. This is what I mean when I say I cannot debate my faith. I mean I cannot make compromise with the world. I am still at liberty to talk of my faith as is a muslim, a hindu, a sikh, an atheist (loosely speaking) or anyone else who holds a belief. Because I am a Christian who speaks of matters of Christ (Not suprising given my faith :rolleyes: ) I am expected to shut up and go to another forum? Enough already. Ignore me or hold a petition to have me removed for being a Christian and talking about the Christian faith in a forum dedicated to Religion. If I am asked to leave the site by the general consensus of the people put in charge to make such decisions I will not make any fuss. I will go without questioning their authority.

I'm watching to see if anyone will deplore SouthStar for using the word idiot in the same fashion everyone seems to attack C2o for using the word Viper... No takers yet... I wonder why? Could it be that there really is Hypocrisy here?

Maybe C2o is right!

What about delusional liar? And without one shred of "evidence" that is repeatedly demanded by the hypocrit? Well, it sounded pretty demeaning and hateful and arbitrary to me. So much so that I lashed out at him in response and in anger. So in essence, his preaching led to flaming behaviour, which the forum rules seek to prevent.

I answer questions and am called either delusional or a liar. I cite references and they are called false. You don't have to like my reference...whether it be the Bible or my personal testimony...you don't have to believe it to be true either...but in this forum...it is just as valid as your own. Your own? Oh yea, and what are those exactly?

It's not that c2o doesn't answer questions, it's that some people either don't understand his answers, or they just plain don't like them. If he doesn't provide the associated scripture quoted from the bible to support his answer then he is criticized, and if he does then he is called a thumper.

You should ask yourself the question, "where is the right place to express my beliefs?" I'm sure god will give you the right answer.

He did. But you will not like it. He said "You are already doing it"

peace

c20

no c20 you said that, why will she not like what you say to yourself.
when I was a child, I played with toys soldiers, and I made the talk to each other, but I never once believed that they could really talk, I was just playing at fantasy.
now I've put away childish things.
this is why we believe you xians to be delusional, because you talk to yourself and believe you are talking to someone else.
they have padded cells for such people, your one of the lucky ones, your still out.

You forgot the rest of the definition of Dogma;

2. A formally stated and authoritatively settled doctrine; a definite, established, and authoritative tenet.

3. A doctrinal notion asserted without regard to evidence or truth; an arbitrary dictum.

Look, you might not believe the Bible is the truth but I do. Why is that so hard to accept? I like to talk about it. It gives me hope and it gives others hope. Surely that cannot be a bad thing? Why try and tear it apart? Why try and prove me a hypocrite? Why try and do anything at all? Look if I am a fool to you so be it. Let me be a fool for you. Humour me. If you cannot bear me just ignore me. I wont take it personally. I promise.

peace

c20

I can't believe that you just posted what you did...this is hideous and an outrage, and contrary to everything that this board is supposed to be about. You should be ashamed of yourself. It is YOU that needs to find a new home where everyone agrees with YOU. Apparently that is what YOU are looking for, not c2o, and I would hope, not the majority of the people on this board. A debate forum in which everyone agreed and believed the same? That would make for a boring read and a lack of learning anything new now wouldn't it? What's the matter...afraid to learn? You sound just like a Nazi!

Oh please - "hideous and an outrage"? If this ranks that way for you - then you've lived a much more sheltered life than most of us!

I do believe he has every right to babble about whatever he wishes. But - so do I. Including saying everything I did. And, its ironic that you metion Nazism since I HONESTLY believe the seeds of a fascist government are sprouting quickly in the USA now . . . and that folks like C20, even if he himself has innocent intentions, are among the most powerful tools of this growing theocratic corporate totalitarian feudalism.

I have two children, I'm scared for them. I think at the current rate, we are likely to see our right to even speak freely in a forum such as this disappear. And perhaps even a knock on the door in the middle of the night . . .

Paranoid? Maybe, I hope so. But I'm also certain that if we don't call it as we see it, and keep a sharp watch - then we *definately* have no chance.

So, in short sweetie . . . I'll continue to say whatever I please. And you should do the same.

I wont take it personally. I promise.

The very argument is that you have performed contrarily with your belittling comments and all. I'll send you a PM when I have time ok?

no c20 you said that, why will she not like what you say to yourself.
when I was a child, I played with toys soldiers, and I made the talk to each other, but I never once believed that they could really talk, I was just playing at fantasy.
now I've put away childish things.
this is why we believe you xians to be delusional, because you talk to yourself and believe you are talking to someone else.
they have padded cells for such people, your one of the lucky ones, your still out.

You make foolish judgements about me. As I have said, I am not delusional. You mock me because it comforts you to do so. As long as I am wrong, you are right. As long as I am delusional you are sane. But you make terribly fool