Carrot and Stick Morality

It was Post War Suburbia. Nice people moved from the Cities and conspired to have their children raised correctly. I did not even hear the ‘f’ word until I was 14. In School we were told of these places called ‘Reform School’ where the rule-breakers were sent to live a life of perpetual heartbreaking penance.. Although we were given no specific descriptions, we were all lead to believe children there lived in the utmost misery. Children who went to Reform School, for instance, never came back. That was scary enough in itself.

Were children of this neighborhood scarred for life by this imposition of grave emotional trauma. No. In fact, the working class High School I graduated from had the highest Graduation Rate in the State, and attracted more Scholarship Money then the next several districts put together.

Our Parents had created for us a suitable learning, and living, environment.

Exactly what was the essence of this Suitable Moral Environment. Fear. We were lead to believe that the consequences of inappropriate behavior carried a horrifying risk.

Louis the XIV once explained that if Penalties were exorbitantly terrifying, then they would rarely ever need to be exercised. If the very thought of certain torturous punishments would chill the blood cold and turn the hair white with fright, then it is safe to assume that nobody would ever consider exposing themselves to such an unacceptable risk.

But today we have sixteen year old slutty girls whoring around because they think the benefits are worth the risk. We have sixteen year old boys stealing cars, carrying guns and selling drugs. Again, because it is perceived as worth the risk.

In this we all get what we ask for. If we didn’t want our daughters turning into sluts and living like whores, then why do we tolerate it? If we didn’t want our sons to steal cars, shoot at each other and do drugs, then why do we tolerate it? The Penalties we impose are considered mere inconveniences.

Right now Society encourages labor. Act like a good slave and you get enough money to handle house and car payments. There should be more. Work hard and behave well, and each of us should get the Cornucopia of Plenty. But behave badly… well, the consequences of that should be unthinkable.

Well, unless there really is such a thing as “brainwashing”. I would love to go to China and find out if the ‘Re-education Camps” actually work… whether Scumbag Bourgeois Predatory Exploiters can actually be turned into Heaven-Fearing Big-Hearted Men of the People. But if People cannot be systematically re-educated to be fit members of our Community, then they should be used as pitiful examples of the horrible consequences of Moral Failure.

I read a book a few years back entitled "End of Work". Its premise was that Robotic and Computerized Equipment would to Our Civilization was to the Roman, a Source of cheap Productive Capacity that would put Free Labor out of Business. For instance, Productivity has gone up several hundred percent in just the last decade, simultaneously as Employment has gone down... Technology is taking up the slack and then some.

But the Distribution of Wealth within All Civilizations has been 'Wealth for Work'. Yet Work is being diverted from Human Beings to Capatal Machines -- the Capatalists have figured out a way to keep all the Money.

If Civilization is to survive, Wealth will have to begin to be distributed for other reasons then in strict exchange for Labor. I would propose that People get paid for Moral Compliance.

When Rome faced the same problem because Slavery was so cheap that Free Labor could no longer compete in the Market, it was decided to have a Policy of ‘Free Bread and Circuses’ – Roman Citizens across the Empire were fed and amused with funds from the State… it would prevent idle minds and hands from turning to Social Rebellion and Criminal Activity. Rome only collapsed later when its Oligarchs refused to contribute into the Taxations that made it all possible. Rome just like our Civilization had Rich People who will involve themselves into Politics simply to Destroy Government by eroding the Tax Base.

Exactly what was the essence of this Suitable Moral Environment. Fear. We were lead to believe that the consequences of inappropriate behavior carried a horrifying risk.

Oh!! poor old Leo, were you were brought up by fear. Fear is the cause of your mental corruption, it's fear that has entangled your sense of perception, thus you don't see reason, nor understand logic, you were made to fear them.


But today we have sixteen year old slutty girls whoring around because they think the benefits are worth the risk.

And haven't we have had this through all of lifetime?. Young teen girls whoring themselves is nothing new Leo. Even Jesus fell for a whore. She washed his feet, and he protected her from being stoned to death. Do you think she deserved to be killed? or could you have been the ONE to cast the first stone?



We have sixteen year old boys stealing cars, carrying guns and selling drugs. Again, because it is perceived as worth the risk

They know the danger Leo, they are revelious "like your Jesus" was considered to be revelious. Both the car theif teen and Jesus have in common they both wanted to defy authority, they both pay the price. Though I think Jesus' punishment was a bit more excessive, than our teens. Do you suppose we should crusify our teens or just simply hang them?



In this we all get what we ask for. If we didn’t want our daughters turning into sluts and living like whores, then why do we tolerate it? If we didn’t want our sons to steal cars, shoot at each other and do drugs, then why do we tolerate it? The Penalties we impose are considered mere inconveniences

And again what do you cosider a just punishment? The likes of the bible, would have them put to death, the likes of the Torah would stone them to death, the likes of Qua'ran would mained their body parts, girls stoned to death, or get their heads cut off for "ruining their temple with drugs". So what do you deem just punishment?



Right now Society encourages labor. Act like a good slave and you get enough money to handle house and car payments. There should be more. Work hard and behave well, and each of us should get the Cornucopia of Plenty. But behave badly… well, the consequences of that should be unthinkable.

Ok!! we'r moving from morality to social economics? We'r not slaves Leo, people have choices work for your own effort, or depend on others for your livelyhood. Like priests. Were do you suppose the "Cornucopia of Plenty" will come from leo?. Pat Robison? he's a tv evangelist worth more than $200millions and still begs for more.


Well, unless there really is such a thing as “brainwashing”. I would love to go to China and find out if the ‘Re-education Camps” actually work… whether Scumbag Bourgeois Predatory Exploiters can actually be turned into Heaven-Fearing Big-Hearted Men of the People.

What yelous of the bourgeois, capitalists, then are you just looking for a handout.? You've got to earn your own living how you do that determines your wealth, however not all efforts are honest and cinsere. Take for instance Pat Robison, his ministry is worth more than $500 million he personally owns diamond mines in Africa, and yet begs every sunday for more! This asshole does not earn his money, he don't produce shit, but lies deceptive religious dogma, and full of crap, as many other fucking priests, do every fucking sunday they pass the godamn plate to collect dues from patrisioners. It's the dum ass gullible people faults for making these sob's rich.

Take for instance Bill Gates, he produces something of value, that has benefited the world in unparralell comparison to the asshole above.

Godless.

Young teen girls whoring themselves is nothing new Leo. Even Jesus fell for a whore. She washed his feet, and he protected her from being stoned to death. Do you think she deserved to be killed? or could you have been the ONE to cast the first stone?

Godless.

Nothing new, but we have Statistics and Demographics now and can study trends. We KNOW that there are more slutty amoral girls then ever before, in our Statistical Histories. The Trend is Up.

Yes, you make a good point about Mercy. But so did I, but you did not catch it -- that extremely horrible punishments seldom need to be repeated. So, Yes, examples need to be made.

Otherwise we have a Universal Tolerance for Promiscuity. Is that better? Let us look back at Victorian Middle Class Society, available to us through a huge library of Literature, and determine whether their Morality Based Culture was not intrinsically happier then our 50% Divorce Rates and Our Single Parent Households.

Leo has a completely valid point. Negative reinforcement is a powerful
way to influence another person's behavior; however, it can easily
be overdone to various temperments and lead to permanent psychological
damage.

On the flipside, positive reinforcement is also a powerful way to influence
another person's behavior. It helps people achive and exceed their potentials
and grow in a manner that negative reinforcement does not allow.

Leo has a completely valid point. Negative reinforcement is a powerful
way to influence another person's behavior; however, it can easily
be overdone to various temperments and lead to permanent psychological
damage.

On the flipside, positive reinforcement is also a powerful way to influence
another person's behavior. It helps people achive and exceed their potentials
and grow in a manner that negative reinforcement does not allow.

Positive and Negative Reinforcements, when Public, go way beyond the individuals directly involved. The other children who witness such episodes of Reward or Punishment are provided with a Model of their Universe which offers things to Hope for and things to Fear. Hope tells them that they can be Happy. But Fear tells them that they must stay within certain Socially Accepted Boundaries while pursuing this Happiness.

Reinforcement is actually all about the individual no matter what's
influencing it. Societal-based reinforcement is an accretion of individual
reinforcement styles and philosophies. It's typically slower to change than
an individual's reinforecment preferences but is very effective IF the
expectations of desired behavior are coherent, realistic, and non-
contradictive.

Nothing new, but we have Statistics and Demographics now and can study trends. We KNOW that there are more slutty amoral girls then ever before, in our Statistical Histories. The Trend is Up.

The only reason there are more Leo, is because more people exist in our society. No civilization, in the world history has been perfectly pure of religious based moral value. Because the religious moral value is not moral but immoral, by extending very excessive punishments for miniscule crimes. If a teen desides to be a slut, it's her sorrounding enviorement which makes this decission warranted, it's the upbringing of her parents, that were not able to teach her to be moral for herself, but for the benefits of others, it is a low self-steem issue, becuase the religious dogma does not teach self-steem, but fear, fear warps the mind, and people do unreasonable acts. Self esteem is not a given, it's a learned from your rearing of children, if parents fail in essence to teach a good moral values, with the benefit of self esteem, circusmstances are that the teen girl will grow up with low-self esteem and lack of self-respect.



Otherwise we have a Universal Tolerance for Promiscuity. Is that better? Let us look back at Victorian Middle Class Society, available to us through a huge library of Literature, and determine whether their Morality Based Culture was not intrinsically happier then our 50% Divorce Rates and Our Single Parent Households.

Well people are not been encarcerated, for promiscous sex, to me this a step forward. The church nor government should be in between the affairs of two consenting adults. We don't need baby-sitters. Though the religious rights are fighting hard to make it criminal. A prostitute who sells her body for sex, and the Jon who pays for it, are not guilty of anything, no crime has been commited. They are both consenting adults, it's the "better than thou" moralists that make these acts illegal. Yet they don't understand that they are the ones been immoral, by encarcerating consenting adults, for a victimless crime.

As for the Victorian middle Class? are you kidding? these people were not happy but stuck perhaps in a relationship they were not happy with, divorce was illegal, and there was promiscous sex during those times too Leo, you just don't read about it, you've not lived it, but its only "human nature" it's happened sinse the times of Jesus. Look at King David.

Godless.

Societal-based reinforcement ....is very effective IF the
expectations of desired behavior are coherent, realistic, and non-
contradictive.

A splendid argument for a Traditional and Monolithic Culture. It is only amidst a system of Cultural Relativisms where anything is tolerated that contradictions and incoherencies arise.

A coherent and non-contradicting Moral Monolith does take time to arise. The Catholic High Middle Ages was a product of almost a Millenia of Moral Cultural Refinement.

Nothing new, but we have Statistics and Demographics now and can study trends. We KNOW that there are more slutty amoral girls then ever before, in our Statistical Histories. The Trend is Up.

I don't think so.

Nothing new, but we have Statistics and Demographics now and can study trends. We KNOW that there are more slutty amoral girls then ever before, in our Statistical Histories. The Trend is Up.

Not to mention that we know that there are more perverted old men who continuously speak of girls and women as though they are sluts. Your perversion knows no bounds Leo. And to think that you have a daughter. I pity that poor child of yours. To have grown up with a father who sees women as you do.

Not to mention that we know that there are more perverted old men who continuously speak of girls and women as though they are sluts. Your perversion knows no bounds Leo. And to think that you have a daughter. I pity that poor child of yours. To have grown up with a father who sees women as you do.

So I am perverted for having perspective. I am an old man. I knew the world when there was still some innocence left. I wish it were not so, but most every girl IS a slut. Is it NOT true that girls nowadays rather think they have the Worst Reputation of all their friends, if they AREN'T sexually active?
They are proud that they sleep around. On Television we see sitcoms where the Single Female Characters laugh at anybody who admits that they may have gone a few months without Sex, as though that is entirely unheard of among the Cool People.

Again, I recommend you get some perspective. The Shelves of Literature are still relatively full of Victorian Romances (they are cheap to publish because they are in the Public Domain, and they have a literary quality that remains unsurpassed). You will find the depiction of a Moral Society. Compared to that Society, which is almost within living memory, Modern Women with almost no exceptions are sluts. It is not my fault. I see it, but I did not make it happen. By defending them, you make it continue.

Leo:

I wish it were not so, but most every girl IS a slut.

The evidence seems to be against you on that point.

Is it NOT true that girls nowadays rather think they have the Worst Reputation of all their friends, if they AREN'T sexually active?

Where do you get this stuff from? You must stop seeking out the naughty girls, Leo.

The Shelves of Literature are still relatively full of Victorian Romances (they are cheap to publish because they are in the Public Domain, and they have a literary quality that remains unsurpassed). You will find the depiction of a Moral Society.

Victorian society was no more moral than today's society. It is just that overt sexuality was frowned upon. But don't let that fool you. A lot went on behind closed doors.

Compared to that Society, which is almost within living memory, Modern Women with almost no exceptions are sluts.

Your nostalgia is touching, Leo, but perhaps it's time you took off the rose-coloured retro-goggles.

So I am perverted for having perspective. I am an old man. I knew the world when there was still some innocence left. I wish it were not so, but most every girl IS a slut. Is it NOT true that girls nowadays rather think they have the Worst Reputation of all their friends, if they AREN'T sexually active?

No it's not true Leo. You view women this way, yet you fail to take into account that boys are just the same if not worse in many cases. Not all girls sit there wanting to have sex with as many people as possible. You view women through your own skewed mentality.

They are proud that they sleep around. On Television we see sitcoms where the Single Female Characters laugh at anybody who admits that they may have gone a few months without Sex, as though that is entirely unheard of among the Cool People.
Yes Leo. Because everything that happens on TV and in sitcoms is so true and real and is so representative of the real world. :rolleyes:

Again, I recommend you get some perspective.
I think it is you who needs to get not just some perspective, but a whole lot of perspective. You do not appear to know where fiction ends and fact begins.

The Shelves of Literature are still relatively full of Victorian Romances (they are cheap to publish because they are in the Public Domain, and they have a literary quality that remains unsurpassed). You will find the depiction of a Moral Society. Compared to that Society, which is almost within living memory, Modern Women with almost no exceptions are sluts. It is not my fault. I see it, but I did not make it happen.
Victorian romances? Leo, those books are known for the fact that sex simmers just under the surface. It is never spoken of directly, but indirectly. The moral society you speak of in these romances is only what your own fantasy wished to see. Your view of modern women as sluts shows that you live in a complete fantasy, where fiction has become reality. You do realise that if a woman is a slut, then men are just as guilty of the crime you accuse women of?

By defending them, you make it continue.
Hmm? Surely you would not be so ignorant as to call me a slut, now would you?

Compared to that Society, which is almost within living memory, Modern Women with almost no exceptions are sluts. It is not my fault. I see it, but I did not make it happen. By defending them, you make it continue.

And you make this assumption by the VERY few that you've might of had? Your heart been broken Leo, that you persist to take it out on women. And why the hell not can a woman enjoy herself sexually for the mere pleasure of living?

If you were to get laid every week-end by different women would you call yourself a MALE SLUT?. Or a stud? (doubt that you are getting any) Perhaps this is what what you need.

Go get laid Leo, and quit bashing women. Or are you so old that perhaps you've got problems in that department?. Then for god's sake man go get some Viagra and get a pice of ass. ;)

Godless.

Leo:


Your nostalgia is touching, Leo, but perhaps it's time you took off the rose-coloured retro-goggles.

I can't help to feel I am being lectured by a seventeen year old geek who didn't receive much of a liberal arts education. You simply do not have any idea of how things used to be.

Victorian romances? Leo, those books are known for the fact that sex simmers just under the surface. It is never spoken of directly, but indirectly. The moral society you speak of in these romances is only what your own fantasy wished to see. Your view of modern women as sluts shows that you live in a complete fantasy, where fiction has become reality. You do realise that if a woman is a slut, then men are just as guilty of the crime you accuse women of?




George Eliot, and Thomas Hardy are not 'sex simmers' ... you can therefore confine your reading to them. Strictly speaking the Bronte Sisters (Charlotte, Emily, and Anne) were not Victorian, or just barely. Jane Austin was definitely pre-Victorian, but the Moral View is exactly what I would like you to see. Read them. With only one exception, all these authors are Women.

You simply do not have any idea of how things used to be.
And you simply have no idea of how things actually are.

Godless(quote)
Then for god's sake man go get some Viagra and get a pice of ass.
----------------------------------------------------------------
do you or dont you believe in God Godless
just letting you know that you make yourself look like
an asshole when you mention God as if he existed

Philosopher Philocrazy

Hi Bells tell me about it (asses)

No it's not true Leo. Not all girls sit there wanting to have sex with as many people as possible. You view women through your own skewed mentality.



Look at your defense of them -- that they are not scheming every waking moment to get laid. Is that the most you can offer. Now lets compare that to a real Morality in which girls would feel ashamed to imagine themselves having premarital sex, and that they entirely expect to remain faithful in marriage.

More details of how it used to be. A boy had to be properly introduced to a girl. There was always a chaperone. "Walking together" was considered an 'engagement'.

Now I would be surprised if 2% of the girls who get married had not slept with less than 10 boys already. I would be surprised if 20% of the girls getting married for the first time are not already mothers.

If I had a son, I would tell him to hold his nose and walk past the entire stinking lot of this filthy generation.

And you simply have no idea of how things actually are.

Isn't that what I am talking about.

Oh! I get it! I am talking about what easy sluts girls are, while you apparently are not getting any of it. Well, I have news for you. It is the same few Good Looking Bad Boys that are getting them all. Of course the pointy headed geeks aren't being let in on the action.

Go to a club. yes they won't let you inside, but stay out front and pay attention to the action. All those couples leaving and getting into cars are going off to get laid. And yes, you are not one of them. Sometimes being funnylooking and socially awkward has the same result as Virtue, but you throw it all away by being envious of them.

And you make this assumption by the VERY few that you've might of had? Your heart been broken Leo, that you persist to take it out on women. And why the hell not can a woman enjoy herself sexually for the mere pleasure of living?

If you were to get laid every week-end by different women would you call yourself a MALE SLUT?. Or a stud? (doubt that you are getting any) Perhaps this is what what you need.

Go get laid Leo, and quit bashing women. Or are you so old that perhaps you've got problems in that department?. Then for god's sake man go get some Viagra and get a pice of ass. ;)

Godless.

I am a man who was in his prime at the height of the Sexual Revolution. I can look back and largely conclude that it is a myth that women can find happiness and fulfillment in life by being promiscuous. More often then not it makes emotional cripples out of them. It is what we call, nowadays, "baggage".

Leo:

I can't help to feel I am being lectured by a seventeen year old geek who didn't receive much of a liberal arts education. You simply do not have any idea of how things used to be.

Wrong on all counts, Leo.

Go to a club. yes they won't let you inside, but stay out front and pay attention to the action. All those couples leaving and getting into cars are going off to get laid.

Get your mind out of the gutter. You're making a whole lot of assumptions based on nothing more than your own fantasies.

Leo:


You're making a whole lot of assumptions based on nothing more than your own fantasies.



I'm not some young kid full of fantasies. I've been there. College, Army, and I travelled the World. I've dated. And I've never been just some pinhead. And so I actually might have more of a perspective of what is going on then people protected by the shelter of their natural geekiness.

Again, all you need to do is take a good honest look at Popular Culture. I know they are horrible but read a few modern novels. Go to the movies. Watch some TV. What, do you think that they are not presenting some likeness of Our Culture?

Condoms now sell better than Beer and Birth Control Pills to unmarried women represents over 50% of the market. And you still think I am making it all up when I question the Morality of the Modern Woman.

You know, if you think you can get more action by defending the girls from mean old Leo, then go for it. But I hope you don't take yourself seriously.

Who are all these immoral women having sex with, Leo? It wouldn't (shock horror!) be men, by any chance, would it?

Why are you fixated on women? Why not rant about modern male culture?

A splendid argument for a Traditional and Monolithic Culture. It is only amidst a system of Cultural Relativisms where anything is tolerated that contradictions and incoherencies arise.

A coherent and non-contradicting Moral Monolith does take time to arise. The Catholic High Middle Ages was a product of almost a Millenia of Moral Cultural Refinement.

I would disagree on this point. Contradiction and incoherency arise from
human error (mistakes). Mis-comprehension, mis-interpretation, and
acceptance of assertions as 'true' without considering actual fact are
some of the primary forces for contradiction and incoherency.

I would agree that a reasonable, coherent, and non-contradicting set of
behavioral expectations can be designed, developed, deployed, and
enhanced over time.

Isn't that what I am talking about.

Oh! I get it! I am talking about what easy sluts girls are, while you apparently are not getting any of it. Well, I have news for you. It is the same few Good Looking Bad Boys that are getting them all. Of course the pointy headed geeks aren't being let in on the action.

Go to a club. yes they won't let you inside, but stay out front and pay attention to the action. All those couples leaving and getting into cars are going off to get laid. And yes, you are not one of them. Sometimes being funnylooking and socially awkward has the same result as Virtue, but you throw it all away by being envious of them.

It sounds like there is an entire market for geek-clubs. You should
patent this idea Leo.

Philodumbass;

do you or dont you believe in God Godless
just letting you know that you make yourself look like
an asshole when you mention God as if he existed


I said it as mere expression!! dumb ass.

Godless.

Look at your defense of them -- that they are not scheming every waking moment to get laid.
Well being a grown woman Leo, I know that I do not spend every waking moment scheming 'to get laid'. I don't know of any woman who does. Unlike you who spends every waking moment thinking that is what women think about and then running to your visions as some sort of confession or to repent yourself of your sick and perverted thoughts.

If I had a son, I would tell him to hold his nose and walk past the entire stinking lot of this filthy generation.
Instead you have a daughter, who forms part of 'the entire stinking lot of this filthy generation'.

Oh! I get it! I am talking about what easy sluts girls are, while you apparently are not getting any of it. Well, I have news for you. It is the same few Good Looking Bad Boys that are getting them all. Of course the pointy headed geeks aren't being let in on the action.
Oh I understand fully where you are coming from. You see all women as being unclean and sinful. Maybe your hatred of women stems from the treatment you received from your mother, or maybe a pretty girl spurned you in your youth. Maybe you were not one of the 'good looking bad boys' who ever got any, therefore all women are sinful.

Go to a club. yes they won't let you inside, but stay out front and pay attention to the action. All those couples leaving and getting into cars are going off to get laid. And yes, you are not one of them.
I have been to many clubs Leo. And seeing that I usually leave the club with my partner to go home, I guess that for you I would be one of them. And seeing that we usually have to drive home, I guess that a little old pervert such as yourself would stand outside and look at people leaving and getting into their cars and think to yourself that you bet they were going home to get laid.

Sometimes being funnylooking and socially awkward has the same result as Virtue, but you throw it all away by being envious of them
You really shouldn't talk about yourself that way Leo. You are the one sitting there saying that all women are slutty because they get into a car with men to drive home. For all you know, some of those women may be going home accompanied with their brother or friend after a night out. Do not project your social inadequacies and perverted fantasies onto others.

. I can look back and largely conclude that it is a myth that women can find happiness and fulfillment in life by being promiscuous.

I can relate to that, and agree to it, Leo however I dont see myself as some ritious holier than thou person to dictate to others what morality is or should not be. If a woman is sexually liberated, that's her perogative to be as promiscous as she likes, all I'm saying Leo is; Who the hell do you think you are in order to judge?.

For what we've have seen here at present your dillusional, take your dreams literally as divine messages from agels, hear voices, a male shobinist, (b-carefull even your own daughter might not always keep her pants on) on who you keep calling sluts, specially when you came to this world via Sex, If most women are sluts are you including your own mother with this generalization?. your daughter? See where I'm getting at Leo?.

I had a similar experience once. A young woman going through a divorce kept telling us at work "that all men are assholes" she kept saying to the point were I just got pissed off, I knew she had two sons. So I stated to her; If all men are assholes, when your kids grow up to be men, are they going to be included in the asshole catogory sinse they will be men?" She ofcourse got deeply insulted but I was right.

Godless.

I can relate to that, and agree to it, Leo however I dont see myself as some ritious holier than thou person to dictate to others what morality is or should not be. If a woman is sexually liberated, that's her perogative to be as promiscous as she likes, all I'm saying Leo is; Who the hell do you think you are in order to judge?.

Godless.

In the Sixties and Seventies everyone thought that Free Sex would solve all the problems of the World. It only made things worse.

Who am I to judge? Why not me? Do you think everyone should shut up and there should be no Moral Dialogue in Society? Do you think we should just let everything drift aimlessly and hope for the best.

Dialogue is better than no dialogue. Thought is better then mindlessness.

Thought is better then mindlessness.
welcome to the world of atheism.

Fundamentalism Leo means never having to say "your wrong."

The mind of the fundamentalist is like the pupil of the eye:
the more light you pour on it, the more it will contract.

THE PSYCHOPATH - The Mask of Sanity

Antisocial Personality Disorder

an extract leo

"Likeable," "Charming," "Intelligent," "Alert," "Impressive," "Confidence-inspiring," and "A great success with the ladies": These are the sorts of descriptions repeatedly used by Cleckley famous case-studies of psychopaths. They are also, of course, "irresponsible," "self-destructive," and the like. These descriptions highlight the great frustrations and puzzles that surround the study of psychopathy.

Psychopaths seem to have in abundance the very traits most desired by normal persons. The untroubled self-confidence of the psychopath seems almost like an impossible dream and is generally what "normal" people seek to acquire when they attend assertiveness training classes.


Socially Adept Psychopath

quoted from the novel

'John had one overriding dream; to become a judge. Here was the greatest reward possible for a psychopath: to put on the royal robes of the judiciary - to become a demigod - to have others plead to Him and beg His indulgence, to have everyone rise in awe and respect when He entered the room, for His word to literally be law, to be able to create an almost endless amount of human misery, just because He could, to punish summarily anyone who, quite correctly, displayed contempt for Him, to have the power of life and death over people, to be granted the only royal title available in the United States: "Your Honor".

What is it that S.A.Ps are attempting to achieve? Once again a quote from the novel may explain that.

'John House slept soundly. In his dreams he and his kind had finally succeeded in reshaping the world into the image they wanted: the dark ages had returned. Once more the plague swept unchallenged over the country side. John could hear the voice crying out in the mud street in front of his hovel: "Bring out your dead!"

John was in his glory. This was life the way it was supposed to be. He was the new Torquemada: randomly selecting anyone who was unscarred by smallpox for a session on the rack; since anyone who had escaped disfigurement had obviously signed a pact with the devil. Here at last was an era where John and his kind could feel good by comparison: with so much misery around him John knew he was better off than those he could see dying in squalor and ignorance. John reveled in the suffering of all about him. He did what he could to make that suffering worse; no agony was so great that John House could not add to it.'

It is difficult to believe that huge parts of society have been built with the guidance of the mentally ill; but they have been. The average person is heavily invested in doing things the way Psychopaths want them done, and is unaware that the things that the S.A.Ps have them doing are psychopathic.

you wont see any resemblance to you, leo, but others will.

deleted.....................

I can look back and largely conclude that it is a myth that women can find happiness and fulfillment in life by being promiscuous. More often then not it makes emotional cripples out of them. It is what we call, nowadays, "baggage".

Leo,

And your conclusion is a model based on observable, testable, and
reproducible fact! Kudo's to you Leo. You've embraced a sound line of
thinking here that has led to a well supported THEORY!

There are a few revisions to the theory that I will propose. There exists
a timeframe every month where human females have a significantly
increased drive to have sexual relations with a different partner. Satisfying
the drive tends to sustain hapiness and fulfillment if there is a stable,
reliable, and agreeable primary partner existing at all times. The choice of
side-partners during this monthly sexual drive is heavily influenced by
symmetry. Male sweat can be interpreted by females. The more summetrical
their bodies are, the more satisfying and arousing a famale finds the scent.
Apparently, symmetry is an indicator of health and females would be
attracted to partners whom would have increased chances of producing
healthy babies.

Well, as for old novels: In "Jane Eyre", a man says to a Jane Eyre:

"You were made for labor, not for love."


Because she had a plain face and wasn't regarded as beautiful -- she was thought not to deserve love.

Makes me shudder everytime I think of it.

Bells: [deleted]
*************
M*W: Bells, you hit the nail on its head! [deleted]

Bells: [deleted]
*************
M*W: Bells, I got to thinking about this, and I've come to the conclusion that Leo suffers from vagina envy. It was unfortunate that he was born without a vagina, and he's jealous of all those, young and old, who have been blessed with one! The vagina is Leo's fatal attraction. The vagina is a very powerful God-given thing. The vagina lures innocent men to their death! [deleted] Not only that, Bells, [deleted] believes he is a superhero who has been sent to Earth by angels to stamp out all non-virgins and other fornicators, both male and female, who have had sexual relations. [deleted] comes to save humanity in the name of the Queen of Heaven, whose vagina he believes is his! Now, let's all sing [deleted] superhero song... anda one, anda two:

[deleted] ~ Lyrics by Medicine*Woman

Here he [deleted] to save the day!
You know [deleted] is on his way!

[deleted]

Being fearless as he fights,
You know [deleted] has got the whites!

[deleted]

His alter-ego is the [deleted]!
His other name -- [deleted]!

[deleted]

[deleted]

Wow, when M*W is motivated she is motivated.

M*W: love your song, about [deleted], especially the rhyme with [deleted] excellent.
bells :[deleted]
mustafha:read your post, and the similarity's are uncanny.

Oh, my. Some indeed are made for labor, or not even that.

Whilst i can understand leo's point of view its rather exaggerated, more women do sleep around than ever before. The reason for this is that we live at a point in time where society is more equal than ever before and where they are free to whore around like men do, and some exercise the right they have to live that way, but not all. If your unlucky enough not to know anyone who isnt like that then i feel sorry for you leo you are missing out on something special and increasingly rare, but dont complain about it, if men do it then so will women, no matter how much anybody disapproves of it, its a primal instinct few can resist.

Now lets compare that to a real Morality in which girls would feel ashamed to imagine themselves having premarital sex, and that they entirely expect to remain faithful in marriage.
Leo please refrain from comments like this where you single one sex out, both do it, men aswell, and theres nothing immoral about premarital sex.

M*W hellarious song. that was outstanding.


Leo my advise would be, get some Viagra find a chick in a bar, or a whore house and get laid.


:D

Godless.

Leo,

The problem with sex and religion has nothing to do with women. There were some statistics published several years ago although I can’t find a link now, but they found that young men think about sex about once every 6 minutes and young women about twice a week.

The real issue in a male dominated religion such as Catholicism is that men are being taught to feel guilty about their constant sexual desires where women are the objects of those desires and then they blame women for their own male lack of control. Islam has similar serious outdated views on sexuality.

And the quite unnatural requirement for priests to be celibate has seriously backfired with widespread sexual abuse of children by Catholic priests (about 1 in 25 priests in the USA are affected) and now I believe recent findings show that some 50% of Catholic priests are homosexual.

While homosexuality itself is not wrong, it is after all a natural biological variation in humans as it is everywhere else in the animal kingdom. But the problem with Catholic priests is that they believe it is wrong. Hypocrisy run rife again as we see so often in supposed pious religionists.

But sexual abuse of children and apparently almost all were young boys is unforgivable.

And then Leo has the nerve, audacity and hypocrisy to say that all girls are sluts – holy cow what a mess.

It has been necessary to edit out a number of insults posted to this thread. Keep it civil, please, or the thread will be closed.

Leo please refrain from comments like this where you single one sex out, both do it, men aswell, and theres nothing immoral about premarital sex.

I single out the Decline of Feminine Morality because it is a Decline. That men act like animals is probably not much of a change. But when Women toss out Virtue, it is a Treasure they are throwing away, and I think it fair to regret their loss, even if it only brings them to the same level as the Men who had impoverished themselves long before.

It has been necessary to edit out a number of insults posted to this thread. Keep it civil, please, or the thread will be closed.

My apologies where I contributed to the nastiness. I suppose I can get my point accross equally well with those who are intelligent enough to appreciate it, if I use a degree of euphemism.

At the time I thought that being plain in my language, even if it were shocking, would serve the purpose of revealing to these Modern People exactly in what terms their Great Grandparents would describe them.

But once shocked I suppose I lost their attentions. When the Blast travels faster than the Bullet, the startled Bird is always Missed.

But once shocked I suppose I lost their attentions. When the Blast travels faster than the Bullet, the startled Bird is always Missed.
I read a few of your posts, you lost them when you, started talking about visions.
I wiil continue to read your post just for the amusment factor as I dare say most other members do.

Much talking is the cause of danger. Silence is the means of avoiding misfortune. The talkative parrot is shut up in a cage. Other birds, without speech, fly freely about.

I single out the Decline of Feminine Morality because it is a Decline. That men act like animals is probably not much of a change.
But perhaps it should be changed, perhaps men should be the ones setting the example? Why should a woman be expected to behave better than a man? Men have declined in morality too, gone are the days of the gentleman, neither sex should be singled out.

but lemming, your forgeting the hermaphrodite.
leo, will be offended.

but lemming, your forgeting the hermaphrodite.
Perhaps they are the only moral ones left.