My mom was just watching Star Trek: Voyager. It was the episode where Janeway was looking to forge an alliance with a Kazon faction so Voyager could more safely travel through the Delta Quadrant. I was sitting here at the computer and didn't see most of it, but I happened to come into the living room and catch the moment when a Trabe ship opened fire on something (I think some Kazon), and the Trabe leader Mabus beamed onto Voyager, happy about what happened.

Janeway was pissed. Her good will was exploited by Mabus, and now Voyager was in an even worse standing in the Delta Quadrant. Mabus explained that these people only understood violence, and Janeway said, "Maybe the only thing you understand is violence." Mabus tried to explain that it was necessary to gain an advantage, and wondered how she expected to get what she wanted. Janeway explained, "Not by making deals with executioners." And she beamed him back to where he came from.

At the end of the episode, the senior crew was sitting in the briefing room, talking about possible ways to defend themselves against possible Kazon attacks. Janeway gave a great speech. She explained that they could learn something valuable from their recent experience: The part of space they're in has very few rules, and so it's that much more important for Voyager to stick to their rules and principles, because they are the best allies they can have.

I was amazed that I was hearing these words. It's been a very long time since I've heard something so rational. It was so relevant to current events too. I was thinking to myself, "Captain Janeway fucking rocks!" I had to post about this.

Here's some information about the episode:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alliances_%28Voyager_episode%29
http://www.startrek.com/startrek/view/series/VOY/episode/68880.html

Note that this episode was aired in January of 1996. So no complaining about Hollywood's "liberal bias" against the Bush administration, or any similar conspiracy theories (read: bullshit).

I liked Star Trek: Voyager before, but now I like it so much more! :D

Mod, move this to SciFi please.

Also: Captain Janeway? Ewww. Just eww.

Kirk forever.

Captain Janeway? Ewww. Just eww.
Oh, I don't know.

Certainly, her hair dresser(s) should have been spaced before the original airing. (Pun Alert!!)

Her gravity plating may have been needing adjustment, but her warp core was worth realigning.

Mod, move this to SciFi please.

Also: Captain Janeway? Ewww. Just eww.

Kirk forever.

I'm going to allow this, as Captain Janeway does rock.

I'm going to allow this, as Captain Janeway does rock.

That, and it does concern politics.

Thanks Spider. :)

Also: Captain Janeway? Ewww. Just eww.

Misogynist? Disagree with my post and so you're resorting to immature banter? Or simply don't find her attractive?

Athelwulf...seems to curse a lot. anyways this isnt politics of this World.


Janeway was pissed. Her good will was exploited...

that set me on...
the vivid imagery...

http://belanna.faketrek.com/non/fakes3/kate104.jpg

Athelwulf...seems to curse a lot.

I wouldn't say "a lot". But I'm certainly not afraid of language that others may be.

anyways this isnt politics of this World.

It's relevant through its similarity.

that set me on...
the vivid imagery...

You have piqued my curiosity. Care to share this vivid imagery?

EDIT: Never mind. The pic just loaded.

Misogynist? Disagree with my post and so you're resorting to immature banter? Or simply don't find her attractive?
Voyager is all right. But Janeway has a wierd voice and her hairdresser seems to be the bastard son of princess leia's hairdresser. Now Seven of Nine....

that set me on...
the vivid imagery...

http://belanna.faketrek.com/non/fakes3/kate104.jpg

Is that really her? I see the link is "faketrek.com". If it is her, I may need to revise my opinion of her.

no need for revision...its fake.

Yes, I think Janeway is ugly as Hell.

But aside from her ugliness, she was a horrible captain.

The bullshit "principles" speech you gave was the biggest crock of self-righteous and vainglorious nonsense I've ever read. "We must keep our principles in a world that is evil!" That is exactly the same sort of crap that got her stuck in the Delta Quadrant and why they were there for seven years. They had numerous chances to return home.

God, what a horrible officer. Seriously. Beyond words.

And the show was horrific. The only good episode was the two-part one with the culture that tried to save itself by warping time.

She explained that they could learn something valuable from their recent experience: The part of space they're in has very few rules, and so it's that much more important for Voyager to stick to their rules and principles, because they are the best allies they can have.

Yeah, it's pretty easy to be self-righteous, liberal and pure ...when one has weapons that can destroy entire planets, and shields that can keep the enemy's weapons from harming you.

That's actually a good lesson in life, but I'm afraid Captain Janeway interpreted it all wrong!!

Baron Max

And the show was horrific. The only good episode was the two-part one with the culture that tried to save itself by warping time.
That was a good episode. Of course, the solution to the alien captains problem was obvious to me from the begining (removing the time ship from the time stream, since every change he made made things worse.) Of course the problem is, obviously, his past self is probably going to make the same mistakes.

It was somewhat similiar to a Simpsons episode where Homer invented a time machine while repairing a toaster. He goes back in time, sneezes, and kills all the dinosaurs. When he returns to the present, things are all messed up. He goes back several times trying to fix things with little success.

Yes, I think Janeway is ugly as Hell.


Of course she's ugly, not like gorgeous Maggie.

For the record: I'd like to see Maggie Thatcher naked.

The only time William Shatner can be credited with good acting is in Boston Legal.

Madanthonywayne:

That and he refused to accept "98 percent success". That was absurd. He should have known there was no way in Hell he was going to get higher.

Yes, I think Janeway is ugly as Hell.

Either this is misogyny, or your view of her personal appearance was colored by your bias against her values. Either way, it's funny to see you squirm and whine.

But aside from her ugliness, she was a horrible captain.

The bullshit "principles" speech you gave was the biggest crock of self-righteous and vainglorious nonsense I've ever read. "We must keep our principles in a world that is evil!" That is exactly the same sort of crap that got her stuck in the Delta Quadrant and why they were there for seven years. They had numerous chances to return home.

A few points:

First, the Caretaker had nothing to do with the fact they got stuck in the Delta Quadrant?

Second, she got them home in seven years when it would've taken seventy (if I remember the initially estimated figure correctly). What's more, she got the ship and its crew home in one piece, safe and sound. Is that a horrible captain?

Third, it's funny to see you say in one instance "To say we shouldn't default to primitive, animalistic nature is fucking liberal bullshit!", and then say in another, "We actually don't default to animalistic behavior; those evil boogie men do!".

God, what a horrible officer. Seriously. Beyond words.

And the show was horrific.

Methinks thou dost protest too much. Methinks also that you have a strong attraction to powerful, bossy, dominant women, that you secretly want to fuck Janeway's brains out.

Yeah, it's pretty easy to be self-righteous, liberal and pure ...when one has weapons that can destroy entire planets, and shields that can keep the enemy's weapons from harming you.

Buh?! :confused:

You mean to say it's easy to stay civilized when you can default to your animalistic nature and have the power necessary to kill someone in cold blood, with the touch of a button?

That's news to me!!!

That and he refused to accept "98 percent success". That was absurd. He should have known there was no way in Hell he was going to get higher.

Methinks also that you wouldn't survive in the military, which Starfleet basically is, if I'm not mistaken. You know full well that the captain's commands are law, and that her or his authority is not to be questioned.

NOW DROP AND GIVE ME TWENTY THOUSAND, PRIVATE!!!!!

EDIT: And another thing. What about when Scotty needed an hour, maybe two, to fix the warp core, and Kirk said "You got twenty minutes!". That's a common occurrence throughout each Star Trek series. But of course, you pick on Janeway for it. :rolleyes:

Athelwulf:

Either this is misogyny, or your view of her personal appearance was colored by your bias against her values. Either way, it's funny to see you squirm and whine.

It is not my misogyny - it is my heterosexuality.

First, the Caretaker had nothing to do with the fact they got stuck in the Delta Quadrant?

Of course. But her attitude was also part of the whole nonsense. Her poor commanding that had spies on board her ship, her nonsense with Chakotay, her care to get involved in that nonsense...

And hell, even if she wasn't fully to blame for that, she kept them stuck there for quite a great deal longer than they had to.


Second, she got them home in seven years when it would've taken seventy (if I remember the initially estimated figure correctly). What's more, she got the ship and its crew home in one piece, safe and sound. Is that a horrible captain?

Were it not for her future self saving their asses in the last episode, they'd have been there for 23 more years.

Third, it's funny to see you say in one instance "To say we shouldn't default to primitive, animalistic nature is fucking liberal bullshit!", and then say in another, "We actually don't default to animalistic behavior; those evil boogie men do!".

I suggest pragmatic approaches to things when faced with the reality of evil. Evil doesn't "place nice". One must respond with an equally vicious variety of good.

Methinks thou dost protest too much. Methinks also that you have a strong attraction to powerful, bossy, dominant women, that you secretly want to fuck Janeway's brains out.

I prefer Dr. Crusher and the miniskirt blonde from TOS that Kirk's evil twin tried to rape, thank you very much.

I wouldn't throw Dax out of bed, either. But she's only "okay" and I would feel gay as she was a man in her prior incarnation.

Methinks also that you wouldn't survive in the military, which Starfleet basically is, if I'm not mistaken. You know full well that the captain's commands are law, and that her or his authority is not to be questioned.

NOW DROP AND GIVE ME TWENTY THOUSAND, PRIVATE!!!!!

I was refering to the captain who had a problem with his 98 percent success rate.

I'd fuck Captain Janeway.
To humiliate her.

Try that on for mysogyny, wolfie.

You mean to say it's easy to stay civilized when you can default to your animalistic nature and have the power necessary to kill someone in cold blood, with the touch of a button?

Of course it is! When one has the power of life n' death over you, you tend to listen much more carefully to what he's saying ...even if he's always saying mamby-pamby, liberal, doo-gooder bullshit!

And have you ever seen, for example, a bully who picks on a kid twice his size even if the big guy is a quiet and shy?

Baron Max

It is not my misogyny - it is my heterosexuality.

So Janeway is a man?

Of course. But her attitude was also part of the whole nonsense. Her poor commanding that had spies on board her ship, her nonsense with Chakotay, her care to get involved in that nonsense...

And hell, even if she wasn't fully to blame for that, she kept them stuck there for quite a great deal longer than they had to.

Like the time the Q (henceforth Quinn) that was imprisoned in a comet was accidentally freed? And the Q from The Next Generation (henceforth just Q) came to do whatever it took to put him back in there, resorting to bribing Janeway with a chance to get back to Earth if she ruled in his favor in the asylum hearing? But then she ruled that Quinn's individual rights to die as he wished superseded the Continuum's "right" to force immortality on him, after which Q realized that Quinn was right when he said life as a Q had become a life of suffering due to their highly advanced state?

Were it not for her future self saving their asses in the last episode, they'd have been there for 23 more years.

Exactly. Pretty good captain, I'd say.

I suggest pragmatic approaches to things when faced with the reality of evil. Evil doesn't "place nice". One must respond with an equally vicious variety of good.

Teacher: Now Billy, you know that you shouldn't have punched Danny in the face.
Billy: But he started it!

I prefer Dr. Crusher and the miniskirt blonde from TOS that Kirk's evil twin tried to rape, thank you very much.

You don't care for women who have such authority yet maintain their femininity so well?

If this is truly the case, then to each his own. Although, it's gonna take more convincing to convince me that you don't secretly wanna do Janeway. :p

I wouldn't throw Dax out of bed, either. But she's only "okay" and I would feel gay as she was a man in her prior incarnation.

What? :confused:

How insecure of your sexuality are you, exactly, to feel gay for doing Dax?

I was refering to the captain who had a problem with his 98 percent success rate.

Yup. And I was referring to the fact that, because of this mentality, you wouldn't surivive in the military. Are you trying to tell me that a general doesn't have the right to expect 110 percent out of you? Sounds like yellow-belly talk, if you ask me. :rolleyes:

Of course it is! When one has the power of life n' death over you, you tend to listen much more carefully to what he's saying ...even if he's always saying mamby-pamby, liberal, doo-gooder bullshit!

Uh... no. Actually, it's the other way around. The power goes to people's heads, remember? Power corrupts, remember? When you yield such power, and no one can take it from you, a natural thought process is, "Hey, I can kill you with the push of a button if I so choose. And you know what? I think I just might do that, because you're annoying the fuck out of me!"

If what you say were true, Hitler and Stalin would've enacted liberal policies, caring for their people and trying to preserve their rights and improve their quality of life, rather than simply sending them to concentration camps or to Siberia to die a horrible death, just because something was somehow "wrong" with them.

No. It's much easier and very tempting to just default to being an irrational animal when you have such power. Even for some of the most civilized of people. After all, we are animals.

And have you ever seen, for example, a bully who picks on a kid twice his size even if the big guy is a quiet and shy?

This comment doesn't follow.

In fact, your comment serves to undermine your point.

Bullies who can pick on someone smaller than them and get away with it could resist the urge and be nice to them like they should. They could be civilized towards them and not bully them. But they bully because it's part of human nature to bully people in order to assert their dominance. And that is so tempting to some people, especially when they know they can get away with it, because sometimes it's hard to rise above your primitive tendencies.

Your comment doesn't follow because we're talking about when people have power. In your scenario, the big guy has no power. People act differently when they're not in a position of dominance.

People will sometimes default to primitive behavior when they have power and can get away with it. Because it's easy.

Get it?