America is like the customer who walked into a gun store, purchased a gun on credit, and then used it to rob the same gun store...

Exactly.

and it turned out to be the most powerful and richest gun shop in the history of gun shops.

I just love happy endings.

I hear a lot of bitching about capitalism but no offer of alternative governance.

Simply put, there are only 2 things that motivate enough of the populous to make a society work. And neither of them is public welfare and care for the fellow human.

1) Money
2) Religion

which of the two do you want ruling your life?

What society are you talking about Michael. The society which was dominated by Money and Religion in the first place? If we are to live in a beautiful society we have to ask ourselves the question do we want powerful interests whether big business houses or churches ruling our day to day life? And bitching about capitalism is the 1st step.

When you drive a car ..does the car start at 60 MPH ..no it has to go thru subsequent torque level changes which you do not see ....We as a society should start disarming the large corporations which rule the minds of the people ..like Media houses...You will be amazed to learn that a free society like America just has 3 corporate houses owning 99.99% of the airwaves.

I had a chance to visit CNN HQ in Atlanta ..and you know what they do ..they monitor other networks for story ..and the moment they see the rating go up they change their format to show the same stories ...

If I would be the president and had to sell a lie like Bush and his gang did I just need to invite the 3 - 5 corporation CEOs and threaten them (with Sanctions) or bribe them (with tax benefits).

Capitalism is alright till it does not make corporations rule the public policies..

actually money and religions are symtoms not cause. The only thing that rules people is POWER. The king in the middle ages used threat of force as did the roman empire and as does the US in other countrys, other people have used religion, in the west its money. Pick your poision but the cause is the same, cirtan people want more power and will do anything they can to get it

America is like the customer who walked into a gun store, purchased a gun on credit, and then used it to rob the same gun store...
Actually, real America is the gun store owner who can spot a commie/socialist/wealth-redistributive Progressive and properly dispatch the felonious scum.

Only capitalists actually have credit they can pay for. ;)

and it turned out to be the most powerful and richest gun shop in the history of gun shops.

I just love happy endings.

It's more like it's a Walmart gunshop paying most of its employees minimum wage and discarding them at will and a few rich stockholders.

I hear a lot of bitching about capitalism but no offer of alternative governance.


Social democracy.

Social democracy.How is "social" democracy different than normal "democracy"?

Social democracy is Capitolistic isn't it?

I still think its either money or religion. And actually its really a little of both. I'd rather have the equation shift to the money side with as little religion as possible.

money or religion

Then the military junta governing Myanmar is run by... money, I suppose?

actually money and religions are symtoms not cause. The only thing that rules people is POWER. The king in the middle ages used threat of force as did the roman empire and as does the US in other countrys, other people have used religion, in the west its money. Pick your poision but the cause is the same, cirtan people want more power and will do anything they can to get it
You're missing an important distinction between these various methods of persuasion. Under capitalism, one is free to do as one wishes. Money is exchanged in return for services or goods. The exchange is VOLUNTARY. The medieval King used force alone. No choice was allowed. Capitalism is nothing more than economic freedom.

Then the military junta governing Myanmar is run by... money, I suppose?hmmmm yeah money.

How is "social" democracy different than normal "democracy"?

Social democracy is Capitolistic isn't it?

A different focus makes a lot of difference. Just compare finland with the US. The US, a 1st world country, but just go 2 blocks down the road and you are in the 3rd world. Finland, 1st world all over with benefits such as free healthcare, free education, labour laws.
But then again, you can always dream in the US one day you will be part of the elite, the superrich that control the lives of other people. Fat chance of course, unless you never thought statistics was a proper science.

America is like the customer who walked into a gun store, purchased a gun on credit, and then used it to rob the same gun store...

huh? I don't see the relation of an economic system of free market and open competition to what was just described. Want to give an example of what the you're talking about?

I hear a lot of bitching about capitalism but no offer of alternative governance.

Capitalism is not a system of governance, it is an economic (or maybe socioeconomic) system.

A different focus makes a lot of difference. Just compare finland with the US. The US, a 1st world country, but just go 2 blocks down the road and you are in the 3rd world. Finland, 1st world all over with benefits such as free healthcare, free education, labour laws.
But then again, you can always dream in the US one day you will be part of the elite, the superrich that control the lives of other people. Fat chance of course, unless you never thought statistics was a proper science.Yeah I agree, although I think the US would be just fine as is if it wasn't for the American people spending all their money on their millitary. If it wasn't for that then the average joe would be fine I'm sure.

Michael

PS: I moved to the AU because the USA sucked so much.

PPS: Don't the Finish have a homogenious society (unlike the USA) and also a hell of a lot of oil? Those two things can make a difference yea?

Capitalism is not a system of governance, it is an economic (or maybe socioeconomic) system.well I'd say socioeconomic, they kind of go hand in hand huh?

PPS: Don't the Finish have a homogenious society (unlike the USA)
Yes.


and also a hell of a lot of oil?
No oil whatsoever. You are probably referring to Norway. Finland is mainly depended on the primary indstry of foresting and related industries and technology (nokia).


Those two things can make a difference yea?
The biggest difference is the socialist attitude towards running their society. And the mindset of the fin makes him succesful in business life too.

The Finnish system is relative new. They were forced into a strange relationship with the soviet union after WW2. Not quite an east block country, not quite free from the soviet union's control. They had to walk a tight rope between the west and the east.


from wikipedia:
After the Second World War, neutral Finland lay in the grey zone between the western countries and the Soviet Union. The "YYA Treaty" (Finno-Soviet Pact of Friendship, Cooperation, and Mutual Assistance) gave the Soviet Union some leverage in Finnish domestic politics and included a guarantee whereby Finland promised to defend her territory and airspace against Germany or her allies, which meant in practice NATO. Many politicians, like President Kekkonen (1956–81), used their relations with Moscow to solve party controversies, which meant that the Soviet Union gained even more influence; other people worked single-mindedly to oppose the Kremlin. The society had also a strong tendency of self-censorship regarding Finno-Soviet relations and the press was often reprimanded or given instructions in handling Soviet-related issues. There was virtually no criticism or objective discussion of communism or the Soviet Union in Finland during those years. This phenomenon of self-censorship was given the name finlandisation by the German press. However, Finland maintained a democratic government and a market economy unlike most other countries bordering the Soviet Union.

The post-war era was a period of rapid economic growth and increasing wealth and stability for Finland. In all, the war-ravaged agrarian country was transformed into a technologically advanced market economy with a sophisticated social welfare system. When the Soviet Union fell in 1991, Finland was surprised and suffered economically, but was free to follow her own course. She joined the European Union in 1995, where she is an advocate of federalism contrary to the other Nordic countries that are predominantly supportive of confederalism.

It's a weird country with an unique recent history. Maybe that made it possible to make a relative fresh start with social values combined with economic development. For instance, bureacracy is basically absent when you compare it to the US or the Netherlands.

Maybe all nations need a fresh start????

well I'd say socioeconomic, they kind of go hand in hand huh?

Do you mean society and economy go hand in hand, or that government and socioeconomics go hand in hand?

Do you mean society and economy go hand in hand, or that government and socioeconomics go hand in hand?Good question.

Well society and economy certainly go hand in hand. Don't they? I'm thinking Amish versus mainstream America.

But I wouldn’t exclude government from the equation. As the societies change to either become wealthier (or less so) or land owners gain most of the land (or citizen have a chnaece at private land ownership) … then the government will probably reflect that and be lead by a different group of representatives. For example, Communist China was surely related to the large landlords that had ruled china intermittently for the last 3000 years, only punctuated by the various revolutions. People wanted change and gave it a go. But now they realize it sucks just as bad and so they’re trying something else, I’m sure soon the government will reflect that change.

So all three I suppose.

Thanks for the post, yeah I was thinking NorwayMaybe all nations need a fresh start????
Yeah it does seem like that.

maybe it has something to do with owning land. When private land ownership ends people get bitchy real quick.