I live in Canada and we no longer have a culture.

I live in the burbs, but work in the heart of downtown Toronto. That statement couldn't be more true.

I'm all for immigration, but Canada as a whole is being way too accepting of everyone else's culture. So much so in fact, that we are losing are own. When Canada was founded, Christianity and Catholicism were at the forefront, with Catholicism most prominent in Quebec and the Martimes. In essence, we were a nation under God.

Now, it seems, we're a nation under many gods. People should be free to believe and worship whatever they want... however, I feel that those coming into our country should be adapting to the Canadian way of life, not the other way around.

So much so in fact, that we are losing are own. When Canada was founded, Christianity and Catholicism were at the forefront, with Catholicism most prominent in Quebec and the Martimes. In essence, we were a nation under God.

I think the phrase 'Christianity and Catholicism' is pretty telling. I can only assume that you are of Protestant background, seeing this as Christianity. I would guess that French Canadians would have a different view of this 'one nation'.


Now, it seems, we're a nation under many gods. People should be free to believe and worship whatever they want... however, I feel that those coming into our country should be adapting to the Canadian way of life, not the other way around

1) the first thing that strikes me is that Canada, like its southern neighbors, is founded on the principle of immigrants dominating current populations. I am thinking specifically of native canadians
2) what ways do you feel you need to adapt to the immigrants way of life?
3) isn't Canada and canadian culture vastly more influenced by the culture of the USA, specifically elite portions of the corporate and entertainment industries. These have radically altered the way business is done in Canada, how people think, what they strive for, how they measure success and so on.

Please stay on thread topic.
If you wish I can create another thread on Canadian culture from these posts here.

Isn't Canada a mixture of different ethnic migrant cultures from the colinization era or is it geographically confined to to regions where the Eskimo's and native Indians live?

Please stay on thread topic.
If you wish I can create another thread on Canadian culture from these posts here.

Pardon me and good call on the new thread.

Isn't Canada a mixture of different ethnic migrant cultures from the colinization era or is it geographically confined to to regions where the Eskimo's and native Indians live?

I'm not sure what you mean here. The 'or' throws me. Pretty much all of what is now Canada had native canandian populations AND it is also a mixture of different ethnic cultures that migrated to these same areas. They weren't so much migrant cultures, the Europeans I mean.

Now, it seems, we're a nation under many gods. .
wow, you are reverting back to the original state of canada (before the christians claimed it theirs)

Now, it seems, we're a nation under many gods. People should be free to believe and worship whatever they want... however, I feel that those coming into our country should be adapting to the Canadian way of life, not the other way around.

Just like Canadians adopted to the way of life of the indigenous people who were there before them?

Two wrongs don't make a right.

I don't think Canada was a religious nation(certainly NOT an overly catholic one - perhaps in some areas). There is a strong protestant and baptists upbringing in the west, but I don't think religion ever ruled the roost a the level of say, southern states.

The culture I was referring to was the old pioneer spirit of freedom, hard work, hockey(without needing 1000s of dollars), togetherness that seems to only thrive in northern climes. Even still one thing I am proud of is that I moved to the Toronto area from Alberta and NO ONE could really tell I was from Alberta. Canadians do have slight accent variation in the east(and we still ALL love our newfies), and of course Quebec(omg a whole other topic).

In these big cities, however I am noticing a trend for immigrants(and yes we do depend on our immigrants - even more so now because of the B.S cost of living), to sit back and stay within their community and rarely venture out of their comfort zones. Even to the point of sending kids to private schools that don't even speak English(though for practical reason do try to teach it).

New immigrants also will work for shit wages, put up with asshole bosses and generally act like slaves especially to cultural leaders in their communities. This does bring down the freedom level for Canadians as a whole. It is getting worse and is the most worrisome trend for myself, whom really values the extra freedom we enjoy by our unique geographic and political position in the world.

wow, you are reverting back to the original state of canada (before the christians claimed it theirs)

Absolutely. :itold:

Btw, what do the native Canadians think of the Christian Canadian culture?

Before you go knocking the way Canada was settled by Europeans, you REALLY better do some research. We've had some rough times and mistakes and some dirty history, but in no way compares to the Indian wars in the states. Not even close.

We've had some rough times and mistakes and some dirty history, but in no way compares to the Indian wars in the states. Not even close.

Oh?
Something in the news lately that you may have heard of is the settlement being offered to victims of Canada's Resident Schools where Native Americans (Native Canadians? Aboriginal peoples.) are being offered $10,000 for the first year and $3,000 for every year attended thereafter.

These schools were paradigms of abuse. Specifically created to 'cure' the natives of their culture. To deny them their heritage. Their language.

And they were mandatory.

The US had these schools as well. They were closed down in the 30's. Canada kept theirs open until 1998. I guess you could call that history. Certainly dirty.

And here we thought Canada was all liberal and stuff.
Ha!

http://www.irsr-rqpi.gc.ca/english/index.html
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Canadian_residential_school_system

Oh?
Something in the news lately that you may have heard of is the settlement being offered to victims of Canada's Resident Schools where Native Americans (Native Canadians? Aboriginal peoples.) are being offered $10,000 for the first year and $3,000 for every year attended thereafter.

These schools were paradigms of abuse. Specifically created to 'cure' the natives of their culture. To deny them their heritage. Their language.

And they were mandatory.

The US had these schools as well. They were closed down in the 30's. Canada kept theirs open until 1998. I guess you could call that history. Certainly dirty.

And here we thought Canada was all liberal and stuff.
Ha!

http://www.irsr-rqpi.gc.ca/english/index.html
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Canadian_residential_school_system

Yeah the catholics did not treat them well, as for the other residential system, did america ever pay for Indian schools?

Canadian Natives enjoy free education, hunting anywhere they fuckin want with a bow, fishing wherever they want, often a nice fat government cheque and are instantly hired for any government job they are remotely qualified for. Trust me, do not go there with me. They are first class citizens, the rest of Canada is second class.

I welcome more diversity in my part of Canada. I've lived in a white bread English Christian Ontario town and YUCK. My favorite part of most cities is the dynamic cultural mix...a big gumbo of ideologies, culture, religon, language.

Unlike the original posters I've no desire to return to a land where the culture was centered around the buffalo and a third of the population starved every year or died of sickness. I'm surprised that's their idealic Canada. I've also no desire to return to the myopic English Christian world that followed it, a racist culture treated natives, Chinese workers, and most everyone else as turds.

Oh?
Something in the news lately that you may have heard of is the settlement being offered to victims of Canada's Resident Schools where Native Americans (Native Canadians? Aboriginal peoples.) are being offered $10,000 for the first year and $3,000 for every year attended thereafter.

Not really on par with massacring people and starving them to death on reservations. Or smallpox-laden blankets.

We're talking about state-sanctioned abuse that lasted until 1998.

1998.

That's less than 10 years ago that the country of Canada decided to stop abusing its natives.

Come on, you're going to compare that with something that America did over a century ago?

Seriously?

We're talking about state-sanctioned abuse that lasted until 1998.

1998.

That's less than 10 years ago that the country of Canada decided to stop abusing its natives.

Come on, you're going to compare that with something that America did over a century ago?

Seriously?

You read the shit you posted? Where does it say it occurred in 1998? As far as I knew it was 1950s was the last abuse. Post the 1990s incidents. Do we want to go into what the U.S was doing in terms of abuse to Indians in the 1950s? How about blacks in the 1950s?

Yeah Canada hired cheap chinese labourers and made them even pay a head tax. Well the government at least gave them a package also. Just WTF has America ever apologized for or even tried to atone for? Like your link says all the government did was allow it to go on under the goddamed churches. Yes they still should have done something about it, there was some whistle blowing going on....kinda like what is happening now with the rapist priests.

We're talking about state-sanctioned abuse that lasted until 1998.

1998.

That's less than 10 years ago that the country of Canada decided to stop abusing its natives.

Come on, you're going to compare that with something that America did over a century ago?

Seriously?

In the sum total of quantifiable evil that a nation is accountable for? Of course. What is the US doing for the natives now? Donating blankets again?

What is the status of native Canadians?

Is their society similar to native Americans?

Do they have citizenship?

Do they live separately on reservations?

What is the rate of suicide and violence? Infant mortality?

What is the status of native Canadians?

Status? They get an "I'm an Native" Card(I thinking it's officially "Native status") which qualifies them for all kinds of free education, hunting rights and privileges. Some things can vary widely from the deal each Band signed with the government back in the day. Most bands that got a shitty deal in one way or another have since "renegotiated"(they setup road blocks, squat on property etc - without punishment police clashed with them once at Oka and it was such a mess it would require scalping's for the police to do anything to them again).

Is their society similar to native Americans?

No, of course not. Their society can vary widely from Blackfoot to Cree to Inuit to Huron. That's just within Canada. Huron and Iroquois in the states could be quite similar, I personally couldn't get into specifics.

Do they have citizenship?
Comon...

Do they live separately on reservations?
Yes, IF they want their "Treaty Money", "Pogey", "Band Fund". Some Band leaders give their people wide range however and some band leaders really fuck their own people over.

What is the rate of suicide and violence? Infant mortality?

They are very prone to alcoholism as almost all indigenous people in North America...and all that goes with that.


That's not all. If you are as little as 1/8th Native(and can prove it) you get "Metis" status(half-Native). Pretty much all the benefits of Native status minus the Pogey. My brother-in-law has it and he hunts all the time with his brother whom is a mountie(easily got in RCMP-because of Metis status).

Thanks, I know next to nothing about Canadian natives. Could you suggest a starting point for general info?

You read the shit you posted? Where does it say it occurred in 1998? As far as I knew it was 1950s was the last abuse. Post the 1990s incidents.

So, are you telling me that the settlement money is only being offered to natives who went to residential schools in the 50's and earlier?
Because that must be what you're saying.

Do we want to go into what the U.S was doing in terms of abuse to Indians in the 1950s? How about blacks in the 1950s?

Now why would we do that in a thread on Canadian culture? You realize that there is a logical fallacy which covers what you're attempting to do here? I'll allow you to do the homework in order to find out which particular logical fallacy you are committing. It shouldn't be difficult.

kinda like what is happening now with the rapist priests.

Now, this is off-topic. But, if I'm reading you correctly you're now trying to say that the US government is protecting pedophiles in the church?
Hmm.


By the way, native Americans have it pretty good too. Pretty much every benefit you've stated for native Canadians (that's really what they're called? They still live in America. North America. Anyway...) are also offered to native Americans. With the exception, I suppose, of guaranteed government jobs. I imagine that part of the 'remotely qualified for' condition entails assimilation into Canadian culture. Would I be correct in that?

It's a shame that more natives don't take advantage of the opportunities presented to them.


By the way, interesting factoid. There was an indian uprising in Seattle history. A number of tribes sided with the white settlers and helped them fight off the tribes which attempted to push them off their land. Now, I forget exact details but, if interested, I could dig them up in my reference materials.

The tribes which sided with the whites, for the most part, have vanished as organized tribes. Their peoples have no land, no special rights, no casinos. They vanished, for the most part, as a people.

The tribes which rose up against the whites, and were defeated (barely), have vast tracts of valuable land. All sorts of treaty concessions. Casinos. Autonomy. Etc. Etc.

Just an interesting little fact on the value of working with 'the man'. Although, it could be said that the tribes that helped the whites assimilated which wouldn't necessarily be a bad thing. I suspect that they weren't so much assimilated as pushed aside after their usefulness had expired.

You are going to call me out about going off-topic on an off topic-splintered thread?

On that note, is it your intention to derail a thread on "Canadian Culture" just on the mistreatment of some individuals in the past?

Yes I saw the cases - however i'm not going to read through them(to find out dates) to try and prove YOUR point. I'm asking you to, or shut the fuck up. All I said was I thought it happened in the 50s, I have heard no news stories, sound bites or anything to indicate the mistreatment was recent. The CBC(government) did a docudrama about the mistreatment and put it on the air for anyone with the patience to sit through shitty acting to watch. I did everything was going on in the 30s to the 40s and a bit in the 50s as far as I knew - go ahead and prove it wrong, you do the work.

Thanks, I know next to nothing about Canadian natives. Could you suggest a starting point for general info?

All I told you is first-hand, empirical. The Native affairs website probably has all the official story:

http://www.aboriginalaffairs.gov.on.ca/english/onas.htm

You are going to call me out about going off-topic on an off topic-splintered thread?

Not really asking you to stay on topic, note that I digressed a touch myself. Merely pointing out your logical fallacy. Can you name it yet?

On that note, is it your intention to derail a thread on "Canadian Culture" just on the mistreatment of some individuals in the past?

Heh.
Speaking about the topic is 'derailing' in Canadian Culture? Interesting.

Drinkin' the brew?

Anyway, quite frankly, I don't give a flying fuck about the 'mistreatment' of 'some individuals' in the past. Fuck 'em. Nothing to do with me.
I'm simply addressing the topic.
Which, in case you are a touch impaired, is on the subject of 'assimilation into Canadian culture'.
These residential schools are simply an example of how Canada has dealt with the topic in the 'past'. (Although, the 'past' isn't exactly the proper term seeing as how the last residential school closed its doors less than 10 years ago.)

But, hey, I'm sure they were just trying to instill the good ol' Canadian ideals of Freedom, Hard Work, Hockey, and Togetherness into the thick skulls of these poor pagans, yes?
It's for their own good. They have French and English, what need have they of their own respective tongues? They have the Bible and God-knows-what fables Canadians tell to each other on those Dark Winter Nights they surely have no need of their own histories and legends.
Poor stupid bastards. Don't even know what's good for them.
I mean, hell, they can hunt anwhere they want. (Even in your back yard?)
And they can get a job as clerk in some backwater government shack as long as they show proper respect to the white man's ways.
God, they got it good.

Yes I saw the cases - however i'm not going to read through them(to find out dates) to try and prove YOUR point. I'm asking you to, or shut the fuck up.

My 'point' is simply that the Canadian government is offering hush money to Natives that have spent time in Residential Schools. (This money is to prevent them from being able to sue for more money, you understand.)

My 'point' is already proven and I don't need to go any further detail to 'prove' said point.

Eh?

All I said was I thought it happened in the 50s, I have heard no news stories, sound bites or anything to indicate the mistreatment was recent.

Then you are not disproving jack shit, my friend. And I would suggest that it be you to kindly 'shut the fuck up'.

However, since your panties are in such a huge wad over this, I dug through the relevant documents and have found that the payment is offered to all who went to these schools prior to 1969. Not quite as close as '98, no. But still pretty goddamned recent.

The only reason that it is at all noteable in my eyes is that Canada is always seen as so damned liberal and morally upstanding. But, here they are, in the oh so recent past, stripping their natives of their culture, language, heritage.

Forced assimilation into the Great White North.

Because, while what is termed as 'abuse' was perhaps discontinued after a certain date, the practice of stripping natives from their families to cure them of their culture remained. I think that's abuse in itself.

Anyway.
It's just funny is all.
Canadians.

Here is what I found in the wiki:

Canada's treatment of its native peoples has been described as "Canada's Apartheid".[4] In 1966, Thomas Berger stated:

The history of the Indian people for the last century has been the history of the impingement of white civilization upon the Indian: the Indian was virtually powerless to resist the white civilization; the white community of B.C. adopted a policy of apartheid. This, of course, has already been done in eastern Canada and on the Prairies, but the apartheid policy adopted in B.C. was of a particularly cruel and degrading kind. They began by taking the Indians' land without any surrender and without their consent. Then they herded the Indian people on to Indian reserves. This was nothing more nor less than apartheid, and that is what it still is today.[5]

In the 1980s, the Urban Alliance on Race Relations, formed in 1975 by a group of concerned Toronto citizens, compared Canada's practices to Apartheid, and stated "Perhaps the most severe and yet overlooked example of discriminatory practices towards Canadians is to be found in the treatment of our own indigenous people, the Native Canadians".[6] Canada's citizenship laws (described as "apartheid laws") did not grant full citizenship to native peoples until 1985.[7] An op-ed by the same organization argued that "South Africa is not the only country where the Native population has been set apart legally, geographically and economically on a purely genetic basis," and maintained that Canadian state policies towards its indigenous people were similar in kind though not degree to those of apartheid South Africa :

For those who shy away from the suggestion that parallel exist between conditions in Canada and South Africa, it is important realize [sic] that "simply because the framework of apartheidism is not written into a constitution does not mean that it is not a component nor a reality nation." Although the laws and policies of the two countries are not the same as the existence of racial repression which allies them, and not the degree or extent to which it occurs. [sic] While the intensity of personal oppression varies considerably, the result is the same as in South Africa: "The native population has been herded on to reduced territories in order to make way for others."[8]

Even in the 21st century, according to Canada's Globe and Mail newspaper, "Economically, socially, politically, culturally, we have come to accept a quiet apartheid that segregates, and thus weakens, native and non-native society",[9] and in 2004 the Canadian Taxpayers Federation described Canada's Indian Act, and reserve system for native Indians, as "Apartheid: Canada's ugly secret".[10]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aboriginal_peoples_in_Canada


The Indian Act:

An Indian whose name is in the Indian Register established by the Act is said to have Indian status or treaty status. An Indian who is not registered is said to be a non-status Indian. Prior to 1985 status was often lost in ways which are now considered unfair. In Attorney General of Canada v. Lavell (1974), these discriminatory laws were upheld despite arguments made under the Canadian Bill of Rights. The Act was nevertheless amended in 1985 to restore status to people who had lost it in one of these ways, and to their children. Before the amendment, the ways in which status were lost were:

* marrying a man who was not a Status Indian
* enfranchisement (until 1960, an Indian could vote in federal elections only by renouncing Indian status)
* having a mother and paternal grandmother who did not have status before marriage (these people lost status at 21)
* being born out of wedlock of a mother with status and a father without.



http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Indian_Act_(Canada)

Canada's citizenship laws (described as "apartheid laws") did not grant full citizenship to native peoples until 1985.

Interesting. The piece I heard on this said the natives had no say in having their children torn away from them and sent to these schools because they were seen as wards of the state. Somewhat surprising that they had no citizenship.

I'm relatively sure that US natives have citizenship. They actually have a sort of dual citizenship. Their reservations are basically sovereign nations.

To further Nietzschefan's fallacy:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Indian_Citizenship_Act_of_1924

Not really asking you to stay on topic, note that I digressed a touch myself. Merely pointing out your logical fallacy. Can you name it yet?



Heh.
Speaking about the topic is 'derailing' in Canadian Culture? Interesting.

Drinkin' the brew?

Anyway, quite frankly, I don't give a flying fuck about the 'mistreatment' of 'some individuals' in the past. Fuck 'em. Nothing to do with me.
I'm simply addressing the topic.
Which, in case you are a touch impaired, is on the subject of 'assimilation into Canadian culture'.
These residential schools are simply an example of how Canada has dealt with the topic in the 'past'. (Although, the 'past' isn't exactly the proper term seeing as how the last residential school closed its doors less than 10 years ago.)

But, hey, I'm sure they were just trying to instill the good ol' Canadian ideals of Freedom, Hard Work, Hockey, and Togetherness into the thick skulls of these poor pagans, yes?
It's for their own good. They have French and English, what need have they of their own respective tongues? They have the Bible and God-knows-what fables Canadians tell to each other on those Dark Winter Nights they surely have no need of their own histories and legends.
Poor stupid bastards. Don't even know what's good for them.
I mean, hell, they can hunt anwhere they want. (Even in your back yard?)
And they can get a job as clerk in some backwater government shack as long as they show proper respect to the white man's ways.
God, they got it good.



My 'point' is simply that the Canadian government is offering hush money to Natives that have spent time in Residential Schools. (This money is to prevent them from being able to sue for more money, you understand.)

My 'point' is already proven and I don't need to go any further detail to 'prove' said point.

Eh?



Then you are not disproving jack shit, my friend. And I would suggest that it be you to kindly 'shut the fuck up'.

However, since your panties are in such a huge wad over this, I dug through the relevant documents and have found that the payment is offered to all who went to these schools prior to 1969. Not quite as close as '98, no. But still pretty goddamned recent.

The only reason that it is at all noteable in my eyes is that Canada is always seen as so damned liberal and morally upstanding. But, here they are, in the oh so recent past, stripping their natives of their culture, language, heritage.

Forced assimilation into the Great White North.

Because, while what is termed as 'abuse' was perhaps discontinued after a certain date, the practice of stripping natives from their families to cure them of their culture remained. I think that's abuse in itself.

Anyway.
It's just funny is all.
Canadians.

1969. ops i'm 10 years off, like I give a flying fuck.

I accept your indignant surrender.

And, anyway, I wonder what the odds are that the 'abuse' just stopped dead in 1969?
Also, who gives a shit about abuse when the true problem is not the children being smacked around (which would likely have occurred had they stayed at home as well) but rather that their culture was stolen from them by this need to cure them of their heathen and backward ways.
This is not addressed in the hush money.
Nor did it stop until 1998. Although, I do find it likely that it asymptotically approached cessation as school after school shut down thus allowing more and more native children to remain at home. A pity their parents had, by and large, already been stripped of their culture by then, but them's the breaks, eh?

At least now they have hockey.
Hurrah.

And, by the way, what do you make of the fact that native Canadians weren't even given citizenship until 1985. A little bit late on that one, eh?

Maybe there should be a Canadian Residential School system set up to cure you of your backwards culture?

I accept your wordy boring bullshit.

I accept your wordy boring bullshit.

Yes. That is taken as understood in your surrender.

By the way, you've just shown which culture you belong to. The ADD culture which has become prevalent of late.
Congratulations.
Do you receive a government stipend for this?

Anyway, run along and go play.
Play nicely.

Hum. There certainly do seem to be a lot of straw men around. Is this a cornfield?

Name one then.
I simply posted a link to a news item that surprised me. See, I was taken in by Canada's PR. Stupid me.

Anyway, I can't help how it was taken by others. I simply defend the position which I entered into with that post. Nothing more.

Hmm.
Actually, now that I think of it, since I'm the one defending my position, you must be saying that other people are presenting strawmen by attempting to force me to defend a position which I do not hold.
I don't think that Nietzschefan intended to do this, but perhaps I'm too trusting?

What is Canadian culture? I know the country is basically divided into French and English parts, both parts having very nice modern architecture (U.S. can't boast about such nice city planning). What else is there?

That's the thing, it's gotten so superficial(as such why I put "hockey") in there, but even that is not a commonality anymore. Well that's all I've got to say about it, i am not going to waste my time getting drawn into an argument I don't even care about(I really don't give a fuck for the natives, in case you didn't guess, I know what I have seen and experienced and I don't need to argue about it). Yeah like I said we no longer have any culture, not even watered down. Open country, come and go as you please.

Name one then.

Beer, stipends, ADD, the lot. The assumption of ongoing Judeo-Christian supremacy on the part of Canadians. Canada has treated its natives better, period.

Beer, stipends, ADD, the lot.

How are these strawmen? I'm not making anyone defend a position which they do not hold. I'm simply making judgements based on observations of behavior.

I note you didn't mention hockey.

The assumption of ongoing Judeo-Christian supremacy on the part of Canadians.

What assumption?

Canada has treated its natives better, period.

There's that fallacy again.
Do you know what fallacy I'm referring to?
You're a little brighter than the other fellow, I believe.

Ok let's play...

Why did Sitting Bull go to Canada?

i am not going to waste my time getting drawn into an argument I don't even care about

Then why all the hair pulling and jumping about? I simply brought up a news story. You seemed to take it rather personally.

I apologize if I offended your sensibilities, monsieur.


Heh.
By the way, speaking of Canadian culture:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=skCsyCbOpUA

Why did Sitting Bull go to Canada?

So his kids could go to Residential Schools?

You're not still on that fallacy, are you?

Not really on par with massacring people and starving them to death on reservations. Or smallpox-laden blankets.

Well since I imagine these comments were in part a response to my short aside, I would point out that I wasn't referring to genocide, just a general lack of respect for the culture of the people who lived their before you (and in no way was I implying it was any better in the US).

The fact of the matter is that cultures aren't stagnant and while immigrants may change what passess for Canadian culture the idea that they are going to harm, corrupt, or replace it is ludicrous. All the studies I've read show that after a couple generations the grandchildren of those immigrants will be more intune with mainstream Canadian culture than the culture of their ancestors anyway and will be listening to Celine Dion and eating poutine like the rest of you. The fact is that culture is pretty much determined by market forces today anyway and if you really want to preserve Canadian culture you should be much more concerned about international media conglomerates than some immigrants eating funny foods and belonging to a different religion.

Heh.
By the way, speaking of Canadian culture:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=skCsyCbOpUA

Yeah that's hilarious, I wish Quebec would separate.

Okay, y'all who don't know what culture means, I wasn't even asking you, okay? Tsk.

I'll be more specific. I want a real answer, because I don't know it and I should know it. Name some Canadian authors, movies, artists; list some traditions (for instance, U.S. likes to do barbecue and watch fireworks on Independence day, and Sunday is our football day); name some traditionally Canadian dishes (for instance, U.S. has a turkey day and we're crazy over steaks throughout the rest of the year); name some Canadian values (U.S. values land most of all and we always like to visit that ancestral home); name some historical events that are important for Canadians. I don't know any of this stuff because Canada never makes it into school history text books or the big news. Canada is so quiet it's easy to forget it's there. I know your population is in a very tiny number and spread out over a vast amount of land, and rumor has it that you spend winters underground.

Don't point at immigrants. U.S. has loads of them, like any other non-3rd world country, and they mostly do their own thing, but we have the people who have lived here for generations and those maintain what defines American culture.

Okay, y'all who don't know what culture means, I wasn't even asking you, okay? Tsk.

I'll be more specific. I want a real answer, because I don't know it and I should know it. Name some Canadian authors, movies, artists; list some traditions (for instance, U.S. likes to do barbecue and watch fireworks on Independence day, and Sunday is our football day); name some traditionally Canadian dishes (for instance, U.S. has a turkey day and we're crazy over steaks throughout the rest of the year); name some Canadian values (U.S. values land most of all and we always like to visit that ancestral home); name some historical events that are important for Canadians. I don't know any of this stuff because Canada never makes it into school history text books or the big news. Canada is so quiet it's easy to forget it's there. I know your population is in a very tiny number and spread out over a vast amount of land, and rumor has it that you spend winters underground.

Don't point at immigrants. U.S. has loads of them, like any other non-3rd world country, and they mostly do their own thing, but we have the people who have lived here for generations and those maintain what defines American culture.

This post deserves a reward.
One of my favorite Canadian Artists:
http://www.leonardcohen.com/

Author:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pierre_Berton

The most important Canadian day(and it ISN'T even a holiday in most provinces :(
http://www.vac-acc.gc.ca/remembers/sub.cfm?source=history/other/remember&CFID=18857506&CFTOKEN=34565424

Canadian dishes are ....odd like Poutine, inherited like pirogies, kubasa and samosas, unique like ketchup on kraft dinner!?.

Vimy Ridge was our breaking away from Britain(nationhood):

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Vimy_Ridge

Population is around 32million and huge majority is within 200 mile of the U.S.

Our Thanksgiving comes earlier, it's not all squished up with Christmas.

Our T.V in the 70s and 80s was mostly from the states, but we all watched the beachcombers (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Beachcombers) in the 80's and many of us watched North of 60 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/North_of_60) in the 90s. Many American movies and T.V shows(all the xfiles)including nearly all modern westerns are shot in Canada. "Open range" I particularly remember all the scenery. The recent Jesse James flick was shot in my home town of Edmonton, right at fort edmonton park - they shot the train robbery on the vintage train they run there, my cousin was an extra. His wife was a pregnant lady on the train, I don't know if they made the picture.

Many Comedians come from Canada, one does require a sense of humour to live here at times.

One of the biggest differences and one I am not sure I agree with, esp these days is the direction Canada took with Immigration. The government prides itself on the "cultural mosaic" ideal rather than the American "Melting Pot".

Lastly, if nothing else...Please read up on this guy. This is the closest thing to "hero" I have heard of and seen. I consider myself a fairly well read history buff.

http://www.terryfoxrun.org/english/home/default.asp?s=1

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/thumb/f/f2/Terry_fox_running.jpg/200px-Terry_fox_running.jpg

One of the most famous Canadian authors is Michael Ondaatje (a 1st generation immigrant) and one of the most famous Canadian directors is Atom Egoyan (also 1st generation immigrant). If I had time I could point to others to show how silly the original post was regarding the feara that immigrants might ruin Canadian culture.

One of the most famous Canadian authors is Michael Ondaatje (a 1st generation immigrant) and one of the most famous Canadian directors is Atom Egoyan (also 1st generation immigrant). If I had time I could point to others to show how silly the original post was regarding the feara that immigrants might ruin Canadian culture.

Never heard of them. What did they do?

I hate is when Canadians bring up authors, etc. that 99% of Canadians have never read as proof of some 'culture'.

Most Canadian 'culture' is phony. I've lived across the country and regions of Canada are no more alike than regions of the USA. Alberta is no more like Nova Scotia than it is Idaho or Nevada. Quebec is far different from BC than BC is like any of the 50 states.

The single element that makes up any glue is hockey and many Canadians don't give a crap about it. Just under 20% (mostly males and under 40) watch a full game on the television in a year.

Canadian culture in the main is Walmart, Mcdonalds and American Idol. Coca Cola, SUVs and the latest gizmo from Microsoft ( bought at an identical looking mall as found across the border in the USA).

How are these strawmen? I'm not making anyone defend a position which they do not hold. I'm simply making judgements based on observations of behavior.

Yes: judgements made out of straw.

There's that fallacy again.
Do you know what fallacy I'm referring to?
You're a little brighter than the other fellow, I believe.

If it isn't the fallacy of false authority, then I expect it must be the fallacy of my interest in this discussion.

Sad but true Oreodont, it's dying fast.

Yes: judgements made out of straw.

Do you know what a strawman fallacy is? Because what you're talking about isn't.

If it isn't the fallacy of false authority, then I expect it must be the fallacy of my interest in this discussion.

Sigh.
Et tu, quoque?


As to Canadian culture, don't you get together after Christmas to burn your christmas trees or something? Seem to recall seeing that on an episode of Northern Exposure.

And what about gravy on your french fries?

Do you know what a strawman fallacy is? Because what you're talking about isn't.[/quote

It's the same thing. You're setting up imaginary Canadian ideals. Pretty soon you'll have them all running around saying "eh" and drinking maple syrup.

[quote]Sigh.
Et tu, quoque?

:bugeye: How is that tu quoque? I'm registering my disinterest.

As to Canadian culture, don't you get together after Christmas to burn your christmas trees or something? Seem to recall seeing that on an episode of Northern Exposure.

And what about gravy on your french fries?

Being English and only a dual citizen, I can honestly say I've never seen the burning of Christmas trees. And only Quebecois use gravy on fries. Whole-hearted ingestion of gravy really seems, I don't know - more of an American thing, non? :shrug:

They make really bad horror movies, e.g. Shivers

This is true.

They did make a string of nice werewolf movies, however. "Cursed" or somesuch. Faint allegory to menstruation? Heh.

How is that tu quoque?

While it's not the classic "The US was mean to its natives so we can be mean to ours" it is a form of this argument in attempting to defend their treatment of natives by appealing to how natives have been treated elsewhere.

It doesn't matter that the US had all these indian wars and blah blah blah. The subject is Canada and its treatment of those who do not readily assimilate into its culture. Canada's behavior stands on its own.

It's the same thing. You're setting up imaginary Canadian ideals. Pretty soon you'll have them all running around saying "eh" and drinking maple syrup.

Umm. No.
The "drinkin' the brew" thing was just a bit of ridicule brought about by the hair pulling and flailing about. Not a strawman, since I didn't try to win an argument by attempting to make him defend from a position he didn't hold.

And the ADD thing was because he whined about wordiness. A common complaint around these parts these days. You can smell the rytalin in the air around here these days.

I can honestly say I've never seen the burning of Christmas trees.

I tried looking this up before because it seemed an interesting holiday but never could find confirmation. I believe it was done on Boxing Day, but all I could find out about boxing day is that masters and servants trade places or something?
Don't know. Like I said, it was an episode of Northern Exposure. The one where they flashed back to how Maurice picked up what's her name in Canada.


So. No gravy?
I do know that, at one time, there was an enormous amount of milk commercials on Canadian television. I think they've toned it down since then.

Boxing day is where we make sacrifices to Baal, beat the shit out of the wife, then go shopping all day buying cheap stuff to atone for it.

Ah. But you don't send the children to dance in the fire for Moloch?
Backwards people.

Never heard of them. What did they do?

Ondaatje is best known for writing the English Patient:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Michael_Ondaatje

Atom Egoyan's biggest film was the Sweet Hereafter:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Atom_Egoyan

Aren't the stick figures from south park canadian?

Yes. They worship Baal too.

they were quite cultural. could sing and dance. made movies.

Ondaatje is best known for writing the English Patient:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Michael_Ondaatje

Atom Egoyan's biggest film was the Sweet Hereafter:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Atom_Egoyan

Thanks, I actually am one of those rare people that liked English Patient. I love the era what can I say.

I found it!

http://www.canadianculture.com/

they were quite cultural. could sing and dance. made movies.

Also a lot of fart jokes. Their Canadian identity is certain.

Thanks, I actually am one of those rare people that liked English Patient. I love the era what can I say.

what era is that?

Wwii...

Aren't the stick figures from south park canadian?

Ha! Ha!

That sums up Canadian culture.

We actually have the culture police that runs around trying to stick their finger in the dyke of American influence. Gestapo-like bureaucrats that take out the scales and weigh 'Canadian' content as a % of television, radio, etc. It's insane. Big Brother gone wild.

One of the great advantages of the Internet is that folks are no longer trapped in the myopic immediacy of their own cultural surroundings. We also confuse 'American' culture with 'modern' culture. What we call 'American' is just as much a pan global assault that sweeps across the world....including the USA. American culture today is not the same as it was 50 years ago and individuals in the USA, as everywhere, are creating their own niche global cultures via the Internet. This science forum is a classic case.

Hopefully one day the idea of national borders will seem as absurd as they've become for empires based on religion.