Canada has more recoverable oil reserves then Iraq.

I heard this long ago, but it took me a while to come here. In 2002 Canada was estimated to have a respectable 4.8 bbl in proven reserves. Then in 2003 the figure was revised upwards to a staggering 174 billion:

If the latter figure is true, that would mean that the Canadians have even more oil then Saudi Arabia. But the problem I have with this, or rather the issue that I raise is this. It is not oil as in crude oil, but rather in the Oil Sands of Alberta and Saskatchewan. Is it as of this time economically viable to have oil sands put into mass production? I would imagine that it would take a significantly more complex process to convert the sands into oil. I would also imagine that it would be cheaper to extract then normal oil. One cannot deny that this discovery is important, but can it really translate into a massive increase in oil production?

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The fact you just realized this is appalling. The Alberta Tar Sands have always been know to hold reserves of oil overshadowing any other reserves found anywhere. The cost of extracting it hinders its viability - for now. But will most definately become a valued reserve in the future - after we suck available reserves from countries more dependant on that reserve.

 

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The fact you just realized this is appalling.

Sir I didn't just realize this as you said, re-read what I said:

The cost of extracting it hinders its viability - for now.

What could make it economically viable?

 

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Personally to Undecided:
Next thing on US war list.... muahahahahaha

 

Okay, my oversight.

And I'm a little off too. The Tar Sands are, right now, economically viable. The extraction will remain economically viable as long as the price of oil stays high.

 

Well, it is good to know that a lot of oil is out there should you really need it in the future, but here are some concerns why we should not rush the tar sands right now:

http://www.longwaves.net/2002/msg02719.html

 

Here is a very interesting page about the economics of mining, describing why we might run out of gas economically before we run out of gas physically

http://dieoff.com/page143.htm

This explains, why the Dutch government , having a really large natural gas reserve, has long term contract to import some cheaper russian gas, so that we still have ez exploitable reserves when gas is getting not really scarce
, but too expensive to mine everywhere.

The oil companies are well aware of this and it's not coincidentaly that some of them are already flirting with hydrogen or renewable energysources, just to be prepared.

And what to think of Shell, claiming it can not really account for 20 percent of it's projected reserves, I think that the oil is really there, but it's in an economic sinkhole. the first signs of the Dajals return, run for the hills

 

I have heard about the environmental damage that all this oil extraction has done in Alberta, they did it on the CBC. Farmers are understandably angry, and this will effect the long term health of Albertans and Canadians for this oil. I just wonder how much per barrel for instance does it cost to get it from a sand based source, compared to the traditional ground based source. Oil prices are expected to go down this year, and wouldn't then Alberta have to increase its production of oil sands to keep up the economic viability?

Also about Alberta, Whitewolf mentioned a political situation. The situation being that the Americans would invade Canada, no rather I believe that the Albertans would actually do one of two things:

i) Join the US
ii) Declare independence.

If Ottawa does something that puts in jeopardy the economic viability of Alberta in the long term, I don't think the more conservative Albertans are going to stand for liberal economic policies, like in the Trudeau era. Albertans will become selfish and they will forget that they are part of a federation...

 

Let's see, if we were to attempt to make oil from scratch, from plants that are alive today, it has been estimated that it could cost upwards to about a billion dollars per gallon. It is a nice, very nice, source of complex carbon molecules, the basis for many synthetics, some very valuable and not had through other means. Should we really be burning the stuff?

 

Mr. Chips: you can get oil from many plants without much effort at all, just by squeezing them (soy/hemp/palm oil). These kinds of oil are not that different and can probably be cracked down to the lighter oils that are used in industrial processes.

Certainly there are techniques for creating longer-chain hydrocarbons from short ones like methane (which is trivial to get). There are many techniques for getting oil; most are too expensive while it can still be gotten out of the ground, but the day will come when farmed oil/grain alcohols/other forms of hydrocarbon will be inexpensive enough to be used over mined oil.

 

Genetic engineered crops might improve hydrocarbon yields, plasma "eat anything" combustion engine might take out the need for cracking the oils, cars skeletons from nanotubes might reduce weight drasticly, but still we yet to see some of these important breakthroughs that we have been speculating about for years already, to avoid the economic sinkhole of oil production/transport needing more oil than you actually pump up, wich is slated for around 2040 for many countries if these improvements in efficiency can not be made.

But I trust human nature here, if we feel we really need it, we will find a way

 

Yeah, let's go into Canada and trash the sucker. Sure, Canada has some of the greatest tourist spots in North America, but we can trash it for oil. I'm going to Canada for my vacation this year - if only to ski (or learn to), and drink alcohol. But I must say that my previous trip to the North left me in wonder.

Does Bush still want to go into the Alaskan tundra and drill for oil? If he does... I'll build an oil refinery on the lawn of the White House. Let's see how he likes his enviroment screwed with.

 

"But I trust human nature here, if we feel we really need it, we will find a way"
We already do need it. The hole in the ozone layer is twice the size of england, it takes a global temperature change of 9 degrees to cause another ice age, and by the end of the century at this rate it will change by 10.5 some scientists say. These wars bush is starting are causing the loss of innocent life, causing billions (upwards of 600 billion) of tax dollars paying for the military, why? corperate greed, our industry is based on the consumption of oil and for the first 50 years of industrial america the barrels of oil were a dollar a barrel, then once marijuana/hemp (the only feasable alternative) was illegal the price went up to 40$ in less then 10 years! bush has recently excluded suvs from the emmisions control acts and with 15 mpg being the average on these, toyota and gm have both said they have the technology to mass produce cars with 60+ mpg and suvs with 40+. They estimated another 280,000,000 barrels of oil being needed for all the suvs, and iraq would provide 580,000,000 more then twice what they needed! untill corperate america crumbles under its own weight every citizen in north america will be slaves to the oil monopolys that stuff our banks! while the american public is all distracted by their american idols and millionaires, toxic levels of rocket fuels are being found in california letuce, and in water all across middle america, but are required to deny any knowledge of their findings... look up the toxic emissions any wood/pulp/recycling mill creates and find out what bush has done to help? well, he has given huge tax cuts to them, dismissed laws opposing offshore factorys from dodging tax laws, in fact the riches 1% got 46% if the last tax break hes given, but you dont see this on msnbc or cbc or fox, its all just "people died here, your government saved people here, storms brewing here, stock markets up! job layoffs up! the suspect is a black male, and now a word from our sponsors." "thank you Lau Lou, and im Eric Storm, thats all for the 10 oclock news, signing off" and now its election days and, whats this?? dean completely humiliated himself, (rejoice) and kerry took the majority vote! kerry says "Americans deserve a principled foreign policy backed by an enlightened self-interest and undoubted military might" oh greeaat.. so your planning on cleaning the air, fixing our schools, giving us jobs, AND building a stronger millitary, and enforcing laws better, and giving college students a chance, all in "100 days to change america"??? this guy has more strings attached to him then a marionette, and nowhere on his site does it address marijuana issues, or gay issues, or racism... but hey, hes only potentially the leader of a country, your country. i live in canada and unforunately my economy is based on yours, my society is based on yours, my laws and beliefs.. its a shame really. Well somehow, this got way off topic. peace-
(ps just say KNOW - www.marijuana.com)

 

About Alaska if you really want to read it:

http://www.eia.doe.gov/pub/oil_gas/petroleum/analysis_publications/future_production_ans/alaska.pdf

Although I am not sure if ANWAR oil extraction is a go? Does anybody?

 

1) There is a section in the Constitution (I think, or it might be another document) stating that Canada can become a state of the U.S. at any time.

2) Canada has a very poor military, they can't even fund the troops they have in Iraq.

Anyone ready for an invasion?

 

Joking aside, I wait patiently for the ends to meet. Once oil runs out and the environment deteriorates the future of America is an inevitable dictatorship. Only when people have their cars confiscated will they wake up to what is happening.

 

2) Canada has a very poor military, they can't even fund the troops they have in Iraq.

I hope this is a joke, because Canada isn't stupid enough to be in Iraq.

Joking aside, I wait patiently for the ends to meet. Once oil runs out and the environment deteriorates the future of America is an inevitable dictatorship

America doesn't have to wait until the oil runs out, China and other large developing states are going to eat more and more of the world's share of oil. I think I could soon see oil wars, or oil politics beyond measure.

 

Oops, my bad, not a billion a gallon, more like a million a gallon. I've seen more than one source for this but here is a quote from Buckminster Fuller, "``...We have pointed out that the geologist Francois de Chardenedes wrote for me a scenario of the technology of nature's producing petroleum which disclosed that the amount of energy employed by nature as heat and pressure for the amount of time required to produce each gallon of petroleum, if paid for at the rate at which the public utilities now charge retail customers for electricity, must cost over a million dollars a gallon. "

Yes, we can get lots of different kinds of oil from lots of different sources but the kind we get from the ground apparently is quite unique and readily converted into various drugs and plastics that are difficult to make otherwise. I am still of the opinion that our dependency on burning oil and natural gas is evidence of our lack of civilization.

 

My mistake. I meant Afghanistan. (You know, those Orwellian news stations really mess me up.)

 

I was under the impression that soem calculations for producing biofules from crops would need to have most of our agricultural land under crops, to replace our current oil usage. And depending on where you look, arable land is decreasing.