I just can't figure out god's reason for being such a spitful dick. my reason for thinking this is that my uncle has aids, he also is gay. many Christians have said he has aids because he is gay, that it is a punishment from god, but he didn't get it from being gay, he got it from being raped as a child, and the reason he is gay is also from this. so why is god such an asshole to let this happen, and (even though he didn't)if he did get it from being gay why would god be such a hateful prick? Please if you can explain tell me!


Thomas-not my name it's a song i like :D

You have a physical body, all the free air you need to live, you get the most magnificent sunsets imaginable, and even a computer to play on to bitch about why God is such a dick?! You figure it out. The key is looking within yourself, and begin being thankful you are not a quadraplegic, that you have your site, your health, and your body to move with, go where you wish, a mind to think what you want, and set goals and accomplish with your free will. You probably get to eat rather easily too. You even may have some time to read, and enjoy learning with your mind. Think it through and quit your yellow bitching and whining.

God is not to blame.... the rapist is... and those around him as a child who allowed said occurance to turn him gay...

God gave us life and the will to live it... and thats all.

Its not Gods' fault that humans are perverted assholes... religion tells us to be good.

if you want to blame someone... blame the rapist, your uncle.. and all his gay buddies.

If you fall and scrape your knee is it God's fault??

if alot of wackos run around with the bible shouting things...
is it God's fault?

if you have a precious piece of pottery in your hands, and you drop it?
is it God's fault..? NO...

its your fault... its mans fault...


if you owned an ant farm... and one day a tunnel collapses and many ants died.....

should they scream and yell at you... the human for letting it happen?

are you an evil dick 'cause you allowed it to happen??

no...

-MT

Hahahahahaha, funny but god is supposed to be omnipotent, why didn't he stop it from happening Huh? tell me


Thomas

i'm not a dick because god could have stopped it right?

Thomas

because he wants to see how stupid his children are for not seeing things in a broader picture..........thats why he allowed the internet to be invented so you can vent your spleen and show what a narrow minded thinker you are, instead of taking the high road, and quit childishly calling names, and placing blame, etc., and instead get on with improving your own life, so you can bless others, and find out the truth........and use your brain yourself and increase your thinking capacities.......... and be a blessing to others instead of a curse.......... and share love, because you HAVE that option, instead of whining about how wrong everything is in the universe..........because your own personal ego perception is so limited, and your apparent need to blurt out silliness is so unlimited............. man you have so many chances! Why are you blowing it?!

would you want to controll every action of your children?

their every step.... would you plan it out for them?

would you want them to have free will or be programmed machines?

Dont blame God becuase you are free to make mistakes...

Dont blame the creator 'cause you dont have pyschic powers.

dont be stupid.

-MT

MT-Its not Gods' fault that humans are perverted assholes... religion tells us to be good.

if you want to blame someone... blame the rapist, your uncle.. and all his gay buddies.

This is something my uncle had no control over, it wasn't his gay buddies, it was him being raped when he was 14, your just as big of a dick as god, there fore you can call your self god, all might MT prais his judgmentle ways

Thomas

You have a physical body, all the free air you need to live, you get the most magnificent sunsets imaginable, and even a computer to play on to bitch about why God is such a dick?! You figure it out. The key is looking within yourself, and begin being thankful you are not a quadraplegic, that you have your site, your health, and your body to move with, go where you wish, a mind to think what you want, and set goals and accomplish with your free will. You probably get to eat rather easily too. You even may have some time to read, and enjoy learning with your mind. Think it through and quit your yellow bitching and whining.

I'm not bitching about myself i am bitching for my uncle

Thomas

Kerry shirts-thats why he allowed the internet to be invented so you can vent your spleen and show what a narrow minded thinker you are, instead of taking the high road

So if god allowed the internet to happen did he allow my uncle to be raped

answer kerry

if your going to blame God... then let us place blame in the order in which it actually lays...

the first is the rapist...
the second is those who allowed him to turn gay because of it.
the third was the local police, and gov't who allowed the rapist to walk the streets.
the 5th is the state Gov't... and the 6th is the national Gov't...

and after you are done blaming the all the earth... then you can start with the heavens...

-MT

if your going to blame God... then let us place blame in the order in which it actually lays...

the first is the rapist...
the second is those who allowed him to turn gay because of it.
the third was the local police, and gov't who allowed the rapist to walk the streets.
the 5th is the state Gov't... and the 6th is the national Gov't...

and after you are done blaming the all the earth... then you can start with the heavens...

-MT


No, god could have kept this man from walking the streets, that government doesn't see everything, but god does right?


Thomas

please respond

again... you are supposing that God gets involved in our daily lives...

people are always ready to blame God when bad things happen.
people are always ready to praise God when good things happen.

people are stupid....!

God created the heavens and the earth to facilitate our existance....

isnt that enough... ?

personnaly i will consider myself lucky if there is an afterlife.

-MT

I'm not bitching about myself i am bitching for my uncle

Then you are both needing to forgive and forget, and move on with your lives, count your blessings that you CONTINUE to have (the guy didn't take your uncle's eyes did he? He didn't cripple him with a baseball bat did he? He didn't poke out both his ears did he? He didn't literally cut off his nose and lips did he? He didn't whip him 75 times and scar his entire body for life did he? He didn't pour gasoline on him and light him as a human torch to burn 95% of his body in third degree burns did he?

The key when tragedy strikes, is NOT to keep it, and relive it and relive it, and let IT rule your life. The key is to forgive......NOT for the offender's sake, but for your and his own sake, and get on with the joys and blessings of your life.
I am sorry this tragedy occurred. But with every tragedy, comes a blessing in disguise once we let go of the tragedy and move on, and count it for our own experience, and learn from it, and HELP others through their tragedies. The man whos son was stolen from him and then MURDERED in cold blood, did NOT just quit life, and complain forever about it. He organized, he got NATIONALLY televized shows going for kidnapped children, and he has helped find THOUSANDS of children for others. Now THERE is a lesson in that for us who have tragedies.........

dont be stupid.
Why don't you stop being a blind moron? Any concept of a omnipotent god that can see all and knows is illogical, because, logically, if this "god" exists and is "all-loving", it would stop pain and suffering of humans by intervening. But, it doesn't. So, either god is a fucking asshole or it doesn't exist.

or, G-d is not all loving....
thats what i think anyhow.

Why doesn't God stop all wars and all evil which humans cause in their ignorance? -- Where would our free will be then? -- God can't force people to do right. Even if God helped us so much that we would come back to the garden of Eden, we would instantly be tempted to sin because we did not come there by our free will.

I just can't figure out god's reason for being such a spitful dick. my reason for thinking this is that my uncle has aids, he also is gay. many Christians have said he has aids because he is gay, that it is a punishment from god, but he didn't get it from being gay, he got it from being raped as a child, and the reason he is gay is also from this. so why is god such an asshole to let this happen, and (even though he didn't)if he did get it from being gay why would god be such a hateful prick? Please if you can explain tell me!


Thomas-not my name it's a song i like :D

We all have free will and there is a price to pay for sin. Some pay for it in this world some pay for it in this world and the next world.

The rapist sin is his and your uncles sin is his own. Death comes to all you and i included.

God has made a way to remove the penalty of sin from us in eternity. Although sin in this world carries a penalty no matter what happens in eternity. Homosexual intercourse is sin. One either agrees with God on that or they rebel against Gods will. God knows our minds. God has all wisdom and all understanding. May your uncle repent and accept Jesus as His Savor and may the rapist who raped your uncle do likewise. Both can be saved.


All Praise The Ancient Of Days

Homosexual intercourse is sin.

Why? At that time, Moses also said that some food should not be eaten. It was because they were not good for the health. Things are different today.

Homosexual intercourse is sin.
Why?
Where has your God said this?
Is this in the same book that one minute says you should retaliate "an eye for an eye" and another minute says you should just "turn the other cheek"?

And do you really believe this?

I just can't figure out god's reason for being such a spitful dick. my reason for thinking this is that my uncle has aids, he also is gay. many Christians have said he has aids because he is gay, that it is a punishment from god, but he didn't get it from being gay, he got it from being raped as a child, and the reason he is gay is also from this. so why is god such an asshole to let this happen, and (even though he didn't)if he did get it from being gay why would god be such a hateful prick? Please if you can explain tell me!

Thomas-not my name it's a song i like :D
*************
M*W: Welcome to sciforums, Thomas. I am sorry for the tragedies your uncle has experienced, and I admire you for your compassion.

It's always easier to blame 'god' for our unfortunate experiences. In fact, I suppose that's why the religionists believe in it. Of course, it was not your uncle's fault that he was raped, and I'm sure the anguish he feels hurts him tremendously as well as your empathy empassions you. I would just like to say that 'god' cannot be blamed, because 'god' doesn't exist. There is no 'god' who could have prevented this tragedy. How convenient it would have been if a 'god' had been there to change the course of your uncle's history. In fact, how great it would have been if a 'god' had been there for the rest of humanity in our times of need. He was never there. 'God' only exists in the minds of the needy.

There's probably not a lot that can reconcile your uncle's condition, but for starters try and realize that it's not his fault for having AIDS or for being gay. No 'god' abandoned him in his time of need. I would say that one way to resolve the issues of his unfortunate condition would be to reach deep into his heart to forgive the rapist for what he has done. And, certainly, to also forgive himself, even though he was totally innocent of guilt. He does need to forgive himself of any guilt he may have for his condition.

I would also give you the same advice. Your compassion for your uncle is admirable, and certainly there is no wrong-doing in that. Perhaps, you can help him release the anguish from his heart, and help him to realize that forgiveness heals all wounds. Some people call this 'god.' It's not any 'god,' but it is the most powerful thing a person could do for himself. Forgiveness makes them whole.

I just can't figure out god's reason for being such a spitful dick. my reason for thinking this is that my uncle has aids, he also is gay. many Christians have said he has aids because he is gay, that it is a punishment from god, but he didn't get it from being gay, he got it from being raped as a child, and the reason he is gay is also from this. so why is god such an asshole to let this happen, and (even though he didn't)if he did get it from being gay why would god be such a hateful prick? Please if you can explain tell me!

god aint no dick b/c he doesnt exist,sure you will get all this free will excuses,etc but when you come right down to it,
if god existed and created all,
and was all good he would have created men UNABLE to do evil ,wrong and still have free will,
and if he was all mighty he sure could do it!anything s possible with god they say!
but instead he made sin devil evil and all the natural disaters that is IF he exists...

he got it from being raped as a child, and the reason he is gay is also from this.
That's so stupid. You don't just turn gay, let alone from being raped.
And aids is not a gay disease anyway, heteros can and do get it. in fact, there are many more heteros with aids than there are gays with aids.

in fact, there are many more heteros with aids than there are gays with aids.
that just goes to show that you learn something new every day
and the above quote is something i didn't know.

God created the heavens and the earth to facilitate our existance....

Typical narrow-minded, egotistical, self-centered theist response, believing that the universe was created for our existence and personal enjoyment.

Kerry,

because he wants to see how stupid his children are for not seeing things in a broader pictureHis children – stupid? Gosh what an atrocious designer for making things stupid.

..........thats why he allowed the internet to be invented so you can vent your spleen and show what a narrow minded thinker you are, instead of taking the high road, and quit childishly calling names, and placing blame, etc.,Doesn’t explain why he designed evil and allows it to roam free and cause havoc, pain and suffering, unless of course he is as accused.

and instead get on with improving your own life, so you can bless others,What and allow this evil bully of a god get away with his atrocious behavior?

and find out the truth........Are you claiming you know the truth?

and use your brain yourself and increase your thinking capacities..........Does that apply to you as well?

instead of whining about how wrong everything is in the universe..........I think the thread is about how a god can be so wrong, and he seems to have a point.

Mosheh,

if your going to blame God... then let us place blame in the order in which it actually lays...OK.

the first is the rapist...Or God for designing rapists.

the second is those who allowed him to turn gay because of it.Nothing wrong with being gay – this shouldn’t be in the list of things to blame.

the third was the local police, and gov't who allowed the rapist to walk the streets.Or God for allowing rapists in the first place.

the 5th is the state Gov't... and the 6th is the national Gov't...Agreed and they are all run by theists since atheists can’t get elected.

and after you are done blaming the all the earth... then you can start with the heavens...Nonsense you have it backwards. You start with the master architect – that can be the only real area to blame.

Of course once you realize that gods and master designers/creators don’t exist then everything then makes sense and we are entirely on our own to protect ourselves the best we can.

adstar,

We all have free will and there is a price to pay for sin.And God designed sin because?

And he designed us to sin because?

And with his omnipotence he couldn't have designed us without the tendency to sin as well as having full free will because?

If nothing bad ever happened, then nothing good would happen.

Because we would know no difference.


The man who raped your uncle is bad, the rapist should be put to death and that would be good.

What God does for me is give a higher power to ask what is right from wrong and how to act on these situations.

But hey, what do I know, I'm Jewish.

What God does for me is give a higher power to ask what is right from wrong and how to act on these situations.

When a god can so easily wipe the earth of thousands of people in a flash, how can anyone ask of him what is right or wrong?

But hey, what do I know, I'm Jewish.

Hey, no ones perfect.

When a god can so easily wipe the earth of thousands of people in a flash, how can anyone ask of him what is right or wrong?
Yes, maybe God could "so easily wipe the earth of thousands of people in a flash" but why do you think God would or has done that?

(Q)
I see you think of God as a male, any reason why?

Cris-I think the thread is about how a god can be so wrong, and he seems to have a point.

Yes thank you for seeing this thread as it is

Thomas

Thomas,

Welcome to sciforums BTW.

i see that quite a few presume to know the mind of the almighty

BLASPHEMOUS!!!

Cris:
His children – stupid? Gosh what an atrocious designer for making things stupid.

He didn't. He made them free, and they are allowed to show how stupid we all are....... :D

That's so stupid. You don't just turn gay,

Sure you can.

Sure you can.
*************
M*W: Cite some evidence or shut the fuck up.

Kerry,

He didn't. If people are stupid, as you claim, and God designed and created humans then he is also responsible for their stupidity, right?

He made them free, and they are allowed to show how stupid we all are....... OK, so he made them stupid, and free. As the designer he is still responsible for how his creations turn out. If they fail in any way then it shows he was a poor designer, right?

gustav,

i see that quite a few presume to know the mind of the almightyOnly the theists.

Okay, enough of this bullshit.

God created us in his image. He left out two things the ability to choose between good or evil and life eternal. Why? becuase we were better off without these things. Now the problem came when we ate the fruitof the Tree of Knowledge, thus gaining the ability to choose between good or evil. Now we had commited the first sin. Now sin is the things we do tha goes against God's wishes. While he is omnipotent he also loves his children. If he were to make us behave we become puppets and are no longer his children.

Why? My daughter behaves and she's still my child.

Why? My daughter behaves and she's still my child.

Yes and is she still your child when she misbehaves? the answer again is yes.

However if you turned your daughter into an automaton who could never do anything but what you allowed is she still your daughter?

Why?
Where has your God said this?
Is this in the same book that one minute says you should retaliate "an eye for an eye" and another minute says you should just "turn the other cheek"?

And do you really believe this?

Leviticus 20
13 'If a man lies with a male as he lies with a woman, both of them have committed an abomination. They shall surely be put to death. Their blood shall be upon them.

This is the Word of God. The physical act of sexual intercourse between two males is an abomination and I believe this.



All Praise The Ancient Of Days

QUOTE=Cris]adstar,

And God designed sin because?[/QUOTE]

No God designed free will and that free will was used to obtain the knowledge of Good and evil/



And he designed us to sin because?

He did not design us to sin originally we where without sin.



And with his omnipotence he couldn't have designed us without the tendency to sin as well as having full free will because?

He did. but as i have said. We used our free will to discover sin.



All Praise The Ancient Of Days

Yes, maybe God could "so easily wipe the earth of thousands of people in a flash" but why do you think God would or has done that?

If he did, he is a cruel and unjust god and is not worthy of worship. Or, gods don't exist and things happen in nature that can kill thousands of people in a flash, ie. tsunamis.

(Q)
I see you think of God as a male, any reason why?

Theists have always refered to god in the masculine. What religion refers to god as a female? None that I'm aware.

I suspect that if women were treated equal to men throughout the ages, they would have had a say as to what should have been written in scriptures. If that were the case, gods might be refered to as eunuchs.

However if you turned your daughter into an automaton who could never do anything but what you allowed is she still your daughter?

If I was the one that 'created' her, then yes. Ok, it would make me a lousy father, but she would still be my daughter. Of course it could get worse.. she could then do something I disallowed her to do, but would I drown her for it? No. Would I give her an eternal suffering in a pit of fire? No.

What has happened here is an absolute failing on the part of the parent. It's like me leaving an open bottle of bleach in my child's playpen. I tell my child not to drink it, but alas.. my child does not have any knowledge of what's good or not, and so drinks it. The typical halfwitted religious fool will claim it free will - and yes, my child would have free will to drink or not drink the bleach - but without the understanding of the consequences, of what good or bad means, then the only one at fault is me.

What actually makes me sick to the core are freaks trying to justify the actions of this being. It put the universes only talking snake right by the tree, it put the tree there, it did not provide adam or eve with the required understanding to be able to make the proper decision, and then has the audacity to try and blame humans for it. It is disgusting.

Adstar,

Can't you think for yourself? Do you really think you should do everything they say without thinking? Use your living God given brain instead of relying on a dead book. The translations are not exactly the same as the original texts. Nothing is original.

This is the Word of God.

No, Christ is the word of God.

The physical act of sexual intercourse between two males is an abomination and I believe this.

Your head is as hard as a rock, ie. you're an idiot.

He did. but as i have said. We used our free will to discover sin.

Then why the fuck did he create us? He must have known that we were going to sin. It's was mistake.

If he did, he is a cruel and unjust god and is not worthy of worship. Or, gods don't exist and things happen in nature that can kill thousands of people in a flash, ie. tsunamis.

Tsunami's are necessary things. God causes them. He doesn't favor humans, he looks at everything from a universal perspective. If you see the big picture tsunamis aren't evil. Evil does not exist. Evil is good.

What religion refers to god as a female?

Many religions have "female" gods.

Tsunami's are necessary things. God causes them.

I won't bother inquiring as to why tsunamis are necessary or why god causes them since your response will once again show your lack of contact with reality.

Evil does not exist. Evil is good.

"Contradictions do not exist. Whenever you think you are facing a contradiction, check your premises. You will find that one of them is wrong."
~~Ayn Rand

Many religions have "female" gods.

I stand corrected, and shocked.

Sure you can.
Lol, what mw said "Cite some evidence or shut the fuck up."
http://www.soulforce.org/article/644 -scientific evidence that homosexuality is biological.
The only evidence there is that people can choose not to be homosexual is those people who claim they were but aren't homosexual anymore. However, they consider them not homosexual anymore just because they don't have sex with the same sex anymore. They may still feel an attraction to the same sex, but they're still considered heterosexuals. And besides, there's a lot of pressure from society to change. Society turns them into just self-hating homosexuals desperate to be heterosexual, and they'll lie to themselves in order to not go to hell... which many think they'll do if they're gay.
Also...
The American Psychological Association's position is that human beings cannot choose to be either gay or straight, and that sexual orientation is not a conscious choice that can be voluntarily changed. In fact, the Association goes even further, stating that

"Even though most homosexuals live successful, happy lives, some homosexual or bisexual people may seek to change their sexual orientation through therapy, sometimes pressured by the influence of family members or religious groups to try and do so. The reality is that homosexuality is not an illness. It does not require treatment and is not changeable." 1
The American Psychiatric Association has stated that

"Clinical experience suggests that any person who seeks conversion therapy may be doing so because of social bias that has resulted in internalized homophobia, and that gay men and lesbians who have accepted their sexual orientation positively are better adjusted than those who have not done so."
Other organisations such as The American Academy of Pediatrics, American Counseling Association, American Association of School Administrators, American Federation of Teachers, American Psychological Association, American School Health Association, Interfaith Alliance Foundation, National Association of School Psychologists, National Association of Social Workers, and National Education Association have developed and endorsed a statement in 1999 reading:

"The most important fact about 'reparative therapy,' also sometimes known as 'conversion' therapy, is that it is based on an understanding of homosexuality that has been rejected by all the major health and mental health professions. The American Academy of Pediatrics, the American Counseling Association, the American Psychiatric Association, the American Psychological Association, the National Association of School Psychologists, and the National Association of Social Workers, together representing more than 477,000 health and mental health professionals, have all taken the position that homosexuality is not a mental disorder and thus there is no need for a 'cure.' ...health and mental health professional organizations do not support efforts to change young people's sexual orientation through 'reparative therapy' and have raised serious concerns about its potential to do harm."

wikipedia, ex-gay.

TW Scott,

God created us in his image.So what does that mean? That we look like him, or that we have his behavior patterns? What?

He left out two things the ability to choose between good or evil and life eternal.Ahh a critical error for Christianity then.

Now the problem came when we ate the fruitof the Tree of Knowledge, thus gaining the ability to choose between good or evil. Now we had commited the first sin.Not so fast. Sin is only meaningful if we have the free will to choose to sin or not. That’s why Christians make such a big thing about the importance of free will. But as you have clearly stated we did not have the ability to choose between good and evil, i.e. we would not know it was bad to sin. We would only have known it was wrong AFTER the fruit was eaten. A catch-22, a trick created by God, right?

Now sin is the things we do tha goes against God's wishes.Assuming we have the ability to choose between right and wrong, which we didn’t before eating the fruit.

While he is omnipotent he also loves his children. If he were to make us behave we become puppets and are no longer his children.But as the designer why did he include a tendency to sin when he could have included the tendency to always do right instead. If we are his design then if we malfunction, i.e. do things he didn’t want, then that’s his fault not ours. It makes no sense to punish something because of a poor design.

Leviticus 20
13 'If a man lies with a male as he lies with a woman, both of them have committed an abomination. They shall surely be put to death. Their blood shall be upon them.

This is the Word of God. The physical act of sexual intercourse between two males is an abomination and I believe this.*************
M*W: Do you believe Moses wrote Leviticus? Moses, himself, was known to have homosexual affairs like with his own brother Aaron, but I think you should look deeper into this. A man "lying" with a man is a reference to the placement of two sky bodies being at the same perspective to the sun. These "sky bodies" were considered by the ancient humans to be mostly male gods. My interpretation (I tried to find a reference online) is that one of the planets may have lined-up with the sun or another planet, hence the reference of a 'man lying with a man like he lies with a woman.' It doesn't have anything to do with homophobic human sexuality like your church teaches.

TheAlphaWolf,

Sexual orientation can be changed with sheer will power, but most people can't do that, nor would they have reasons to do so. Heterosexuality isn't biological either, it's all created by the mind. What is biological is the sexual power itself. Heterosexuality is more usual since people identify themselves with their body, which under present order of nature shows only one side, so they feel like the opposite sex is their complementary half. However, in reality, the mind is neutral, so it's possible to like whatever sex.

TheAlphaWolf: Lol, what mw said "Cite some evidence or shut the fuck up."
http://www.soulforce.org/article/644 -scientific evidence that homosexuality is biological.
*************
M*W: I have no doubt that homosexuality is biological. My comment to Happeh was to Happeh and not regarding homosexuality in general, but I appreciate your cited article.
*************
TheAlphaWolf: The only evidence there is that people can choose not to be homosexual is those people who claim they were but aren't homosexual anymore. However, they consider them not homosexual anymore just because they don't have sex with the same sex anymore. They may still feel an attraction to the same sex, but they're still considered heterosexuals. And besides, there's a lot of pressure from society to change. Society turns them into just self-hating homosexuals desperate to be heterosexual, and they'll lie to themselves in order to not go to hell... which many think they'll do if they're gay.
*************
M*W: Yes, I know, and this is sad. I've known male and female gays who struggled with their orientation because their parents rejected them. That seems to be the deeper hurt.
*************
TheAlphaWolf: Also... The American Psychological Association's position is that human beings cannot choose to be either gay or straight, and that sexual orientation is not a conscious choice that can be voluntarily changed. In fact, the Association goes even further, stating that "Even though most homosexuals live successful, happy lives, some homosexual or bisexual people may seek to change their sexual orientation through therapy, sometimes pressured by the influence of family members or religious groups to try and do so. The reality is that homosexuality is not an illness. It does not require treatment and is not changeable." 1
*************
M*W: I totally agree. Having taught medical students during my career, I noticed that many of the gay students chose to go into psychiatry. This was just my observation and not a confirmed study. There is a tremendous need to help young or even older people deal with gay issues.
*************
TheAlphaWolf: The American Psychiatric Association has stated that "Clinical experience suggests that any person who seeks conversion therapy may be doing so because of social bias that has resulted in internalized homophobia, and that gay men and lesbians who have accepted their sexual orientation positively are better adjusted than those who have not done so."
*************
M*W: True.
*************
TheAlphaWolf: Other organisations such as The American Academy of Pediatrics, American Counseling Association, American Association of School Administrators, American Federation of Teachers, American Psychological Association, American School Health Association, Interfaith Alliance Foundation, National Association of School Psychologists, National Association of Social Workers, and National Education Association have developed and endorsed a statement in 1999 reading: "The most important fact about 'reparative therapy,' also sometimes known as 'conversion' therapy, is that it is based on an understanding of homosexuality that has been rejected by all the major health and mental health professions. The American Academy of Pediatrics, the American Counseling Association, the American Psychiatric Association, the American Psychological Association, the National Association of School Psychologists, and the National Association of Social Workers, together representing more than 477,000 health and mental health professionals, have all taken the position that homosexuality is not a mental disorder and thus there is no need for a 'cure.' ...health and mental health professional organizations do not support efforts to change young people's sexual orientation through 'reparative therapy' and have raised serious concerns about its potential to do harm."

wikipedia, ex-gay.
*************
M*W: Thank you for posting this. I especially agree with the section on prenatal hormones as I have 30 years' experience in this field. I hope all the religionists read it.

Adstar,

And God designed sin because?

No God designed free will and that free will was used to obtain the knowledge of Good and evilSo? If we have the capacity to commit sin then that is part of his design. Why did he design us that way if that was not what he wanted? With omnipotence he could still have included free will plus the tendency not to sin, instead of free will plus the tendency to sin. Why did he choose one way rather than the other?

“ And he designed us to sin because? ”

He did not design us to sin originally we where without sin.Then if he was a competent designer we could never have sinned. If we performed outside of the design then something failed in the creation process. Either way it is God’s fault not ours.

“ And with his omnipotence he couldn't have designed us without the tendency to sin as well as having full free will because? ”

He did. but as i have said. We used our free will to discover sin.And we did that because? Why would we use our free will to sin unless we were designed to do that?

You cannot escape this. If God so wanted it we could have had free will and a zero sinless attitude. If we sin it is because we were designed that way and that is what he wanted. It cannot be otherwise given an omnipotent god.

So this scorpion is walking along by a river, trying to find a way across. Eventually a fox walks along, so the scorpion asks: "can you take me across the river on your back?"

The fox looks at the scorpion and says: "If I let you on my back you will sting me and I will drown".

The scorpion looks at the fox and says: "If I sting you we will both drown".

The fox thinks about it for a minute and eventually says ok. The scorpion climbs on the foxes back and they start going out into the river. Halfway across the scorpion stings the fox. As the poison works it's way through the fox's blood stream he says: "now we're both going to drown, why did you do it?"

The scorpion replies: "I couldn't help it, it's my nature".

In summary: Man does not do that which is not in man's nature to do.

(Basically I have reworded Cris' last response).

Leviticus 20
13 'If a man lies with a male as he lies with a woman, both of them have committed an abomination. They shall surely be put to death. Their blood shall be upon them.

This is the Word of God. The physical act of sexual intercourse between two males is an abomination and I believe this.

kool ...now did any of you believers did any motherfucking thing about those kid molesting priests of yours ,NO!
why the fuck not???
until you do what your god comands you to,youre a fucking HIPOCRAT.

kool ...now did any of you believers did any motherfucking thing about those kid molesting priests of yours ,NO! why the fuck not??? until you do what your god comands you to,youre a fucking HIPOCRAT.
*************
M*W: I understand your anguish. Unfortunately, the victims probably didn't speak up until they were adults, probably thinking that no one would believe them. There's also the phenomena of repressed memories. Personally, I don't think the Catholic Church nor any other christian church has done enough to reconcile for their crimes of lust.

But, don't think it's just the Roman Catholic Church, although it tends to have the most pedophiles, anyone who gets into church leadership should be suspect. I'm not just talking homosexuality, here, pedophilia is not homosexuality nor vice versa. It truly has put the RCC in the evil perspective, and I am not surprised by this. I'm the only person I know who has been to The Vatican and felt its evil so much that the skin of my back crawled.

God created us in his image.
so we look like god?
and what is god male or female?

He left out two things the ability to choose between good or evil and life eternal. Why? becuase we were better off without these things.
why wouldnt the ability to choose right from wrong be esential to mans life and survival?


Now the problem came when we ate the fruitof the Tree of Knowledge, thus gaining the ability to choose between good or evil.
now just hold on a sec,
dont say WE b/c WE didnt eat anything,

Now we had commited the first sin.
NO WE havent commited any sin,
IF god who is supposedly all knowing ,you know the from the begining of time till the end and everything in between..
he must have KNOWN what Adam and Eve will do and still he set things up to unwind the way they do..
why did he put that tree of knowledge in the garden in the first place?
why not create man with the knowledge and free will too,God is supposedly all mighty he can do anything or can he?
or did he just like to see his son crucified so you can be forgiven for this so called sin which God created in the first place...

the whole story is just too WACK for anyone with half a normal brain to take seriously

Now sin is the things we do tha goes against God's wishes.
fine lets kill all those who work on Saturdays,and stone all those girls that aint virgins when you marry them,
hey God says so after all
www.evilbible.com


While he is omnipotent he also loves his children. If he were to make us behave we become puppets and are no longer his children.
you ARE a puppet dude,
if god created all ,
and knows all,
its all predestined and you have no free will at all you are just like a computer program in gods play.he knows that you pray tomorow and at what time he knows if your prayers will be answered or not he is all knowing aint he?
yeah takes a bit of brain work and meditation,Im sure you'll get it eventualy

Sexual orientation can be changed with sheer will power, but most people can't do that, nor would they have reasons to do so. Heterosexuality isn't biological either, it's all created by the mind. What is biological is the sexual power itself.
No it isn't. Haven't you been listening? Where is your evidence? You can talk all you want, but give me evidence.
no reasons to do so? Many homosexuals would LOVE to be hetero, but they can't.

I just can't figure out god's reason for being such a spitful dick.... so why is god such an asshole to let this happen, and (even though he didn't)if he did get it from being gay why would god be such a hateful prick?

I can answer this. The entity being reffered to as 'God' simply doesn't exist. The 'assholes' in this scenario are the rapist and the folks whom told you your uncle's suffering was a justified punishment. Seems like there are alot of 'assholes' in the world (the latter category being the most abundant). Bitching about them is fine I suppose and doing something about them is far more rewarding.

Crunchy cat, everyone in the world has perfectly good reasons to be the way they are. No human is evil, they're only lost and forsaken.

No it isn't. Haven't you been listening? Where is your evidence? You can talk all you want, but give me evidence.

I'm not interrested in giving evidence. I say what I know, then I go to hell.

no reasons to do so? Many homosexuals would LOVE to be hetero, but they can't.

Do you want to know you can change orientation? Just fantasize sexually about the sex you want to be attracted to. It may take 2 weeks or so.

Ok. Do you want to know how they can become heterosexual, or at least, bisexual? They just fantasize about women sexually.
Right. Do you speak from personal experience?
Tell you what, if you're homo/hetero sexual, try to become the other one. It's no big deal, you can go back to being whatever you were before right?

You're right, for me, it's no big deal, but everyone's not like me. To control the natural forces in our body, one has to know them. That's how Moses divided the Red sea.

Crunchy cat, everyone in the world has perfectly good reasons to be the way they are. No human is evil, they're only lost and forsaken.

Everyone in the world behaves the way they are due to their genetics and behavioral reinforcement throughout their lives. No human is 'evil' nor is any human 'good'. Those are subjective ideas that don't exist outside the scope of human thought. People can and will be exploitive and depending on the nature and situation, of the exploitation, someone usually ends up not having a pleasant time. The uncle in this case was exploted as a child and as an adult.

"Contradictions do not exist. Whenever you think you are facing a contradiction, check your premises. You will find that one of them is wrong."
~~Ayn Rand

There was nothing wrong in what I said. I was talking about two different perspectives. From the human subjective personal perspective, evil exists, but from God's objective impersonal perspective there is no good or evil, only the divine. "Opposites", like good and evil, exist only in the mind (illusion), not in "reality".

Adstar,

So? If we have the capacity to commit sin then that is part of his design. Why did he design us that way if that was not what he wanted? With omnipotence he could still have included free will plus the tendency not to sin, instead of free will plus the tendency to sin. Why did he choose one way rather than the other?

Then if he was a competent designer we could never have sinned. If we performed outside of the design then something failed in the creation process. Either way it is God’s fault not ours.

And we did that because? Why would we use our free will to sin unless we were designed to do that?

You cannot escape this. If God so wanted it we could have had free will and a zero sinless attitude. If we sin it is because we were designed that way and that is what he wanted. It cannot be otherwise given an omnipotent god.

cris you either have the inability to understand or you are disregarding the clear explanation because you want to. Either way discussing it with you is at the moment a waste of time.


All Praise The Ancient Of Days

adstar,

cris you either have the inability to understand or you are disregarding the clear explanation because you want to. Either way discussing it with you is at the moment a waste of time.I'll take that to mean I have confronted you with a fundamantal paradox that you refuse to accept and can't explain. Such is Christianity. My explanation of your errors and my questions are perfectly clear. You need to think beyond your religious programming and indoctrination.

“ Originally Posted by TW Scott

God created us in his image. ”


Scorpius- so we look like god?
and what is god male or female?


LMAO God is a fucking hermaphrodite, lol

Thomas

Actually I was referring to the ability to think abstractly.

so we look like god?
and what is god male or female?

why wouldnt the ability to choose right from wrong be esential to mans life and survival?

Why animals are able to and they survive just fine.


now just hold on a sec,
dont say WE b/c WE didnt eat anything,

Actually yes Eve did than Adam

NO WE havent commited any sin,
IF god who is supposedly all knowing ,you know the from the begining of time till the end and everything in between..
he must have KNOWN what Adam and Eve will do and still he set things up to unwind the way they do..
why did he put that tree of knowledge in the garden in the first place?
why not create man with the knowledge and free will too,God is supposedly all mighty he can do anything or can he?
or did he just like to see his son crucified so you can be forgiven for this so called sin which God created in the first place...

the whole story is just too WACK for anyone with half a normal brain to take seriously

God greated nothing you are mixing omnipresent with prescient. Omnipresent means he is everywhere. Prescient means you know things before they happen. God is omnipresnet and has limited prescience, mainly large events.

fine lets kill all those who work on Saturdays,and stone all those girls that aint virgins when you marry them,
hey God says so after all
www.evilbible.com

that is Mosiac law not gods law.

you ARE a puppet dude,
if god created all ,
and knows all,
its all predestined and you have no free will at all you are just like a computer program in gods play.he knows that you pray tomorow and at what time he knows if your prayers will be answered or not he is all knowing aint he?
yeah takes a bit of brain work and meditation,Im sure you'll get it eventualy

I have it and you obviously don't

adstar,

I'll take that to mean I have confronted you with a fundamantal paradox that you refuse to accept and can't explain. Such is Christianity. My explanation of your errors and my questions are perfectly clear. You need to think beyond your religious programming and indoctrination.

Your too predictable cris.


All Praise The Ancient Of Days

Your too predictable cris.

And you're not?

Is it not possible that GOD, the creator of the universe, doesn't care about
the sins of humanity or, to be more general, humanity at all. We seem to think that we as humans are so important to GOD. If there is other life existing in the universe aside from us, why would we be special? Is it not
just as likely that GOD could care less about our insignificant little planet given
the utterly incomprehensible vastness of the cosmos? Should we not then
appreciate the opportunity given to us and take full responsibility for our own
actions as a sentient species instead of blaming our creator for what we
consider "sin". We should accept that "sin" is still in our nature as a species
who is still evolving from more primitive animal like tendancies. If you owned an ant farm would you care how the ants treated each other in one container
out of a million or would your conscerns lie on the whole. :m:

Oh Thomas,

I am sorry that you are going through this pain. I can completely understand your anger. I have wonderend too, and asked people, how could God allow "this"!? What can one possibly learn from "this". And by "this" I mean excruciating, unfair pain and humiliation.

I dont have any answer to this, I am sorry. But nevertheless, firstly you should stop calling names to god as it might offend other people....

Secondly a message for Moshes Thezion.....What thw heck do you mean by saying it is people's faukt that he turne dout to be "gay"!!! Wait a minute! Is being gay asin or something?? How could you say soemthing like that?

Anyway coming back to Thomas, I kind of agree with Kerry shirts here, we should atleast start from counting our blesssings. It still doesnt answer your question Thomas, but it will give some "at least some" relief of some kind.

Actually yes Eve did than Adam
so you are a sinner b/c these people disobeyed god,

and you dont see anything wrong with such injustice this story tells you?
why should anyone have to be thought of a sinner b/c of someone elses disobedience???

only reason they force this idiocy down your throat is to SELL you jesus=the cure for this so called sin they invented,b/cthere never was any Adam and Eve



God greated nothing you are mixing omnipresent with prescient. Omnipresent means he is everywhere. Prescient means you know things before they happen. God is omnipresnet and has limited prescience, mainly large events.

you still didnt get it ,
read on
www.geocities.com/inquisitive79/vindicate.html

First you can sin just by having the wrong thought. Can you claim to be innocent completely?




Second, I read it, biggest crock of bullshite next to you I have seen.

You do understand that even if God were fully omniscient that does not mean God is prescient.

You do understand that even if God were fully omniscient that does not mean God is prescient.
no, it's not possible, to know literally everything, means exactly that, "everything" past, present, future. it cannot mean anything else, therefore it must mean to be prescient.
your just not getting it.

omniscient: knowing everything as it happens

prescient: knowing everything before it happens

om·nis·cient

Having total knowledge; knowing everything: an omniscient deity; the omniscient narrator. .

1. One having total knowledge.
2. Omniscient God. Used with the.
http://dictionary.reference.com/search?q=omniscient


Omniscience
Omniscience is the capacity to know everything, or at least everything that can be known. In monotheism, this ability is typically attributed to God. It is typically contrasted with omnipotence. Omniscience is sometimes understood to also imply the capacity to know everything that will be.
http://www.reference.com/browse/wiki/Omniscience

TW Scott, you still dont seeem to understand, is it to hard to comprehend.

Omniscience is sometimes understood to also imply the capacity to know everything that will be.

It says sometimes, not most of the timel, all of the time, or even half of the time. there are examples in the bible that prove God is not completely prescient or even completely omniscient.

In Sodom and Gammorrah He did not know that only one righteous man would be found.

In Eden He did not know that Adam and Eve had eaten of the tree of knowledge until they wouldn't come before Him becuase they were naked.

He did not know that Moses would break the tablets with the Ten Commandments on them when the prophet saw the golden cow.

Sure he saw all the really big or important things, but not the small ones.

so lets get this right, your insisting that your god does not know everything, therefore is not all powerful.
and thus fallible, not perfect. then why do you worship it.

the bible is a badly written book. but having read it I have to agree that god does'nt know everything: when Moses smashed the first set of tables in a fit of anger, because the Israelites chose to worship the golden calf. and God said he'd make a new set of tables containing "the words that were on the first" (Exodus 34:1). However, as we see on the second page, the second Ten Commandments in no way resemble the first set.
so yes your god is not all knowing, pretty useless infact.