I have a request, if anyone could help me out with it. I need to know the best way to help along a few visitors.0

I was having a sleep over, with a friend of mine from high school, at my parents house. My parents moved into the house not more than a year before I moved out and for the first three months I had been sleeping upstairs until my brother shipped off to the army.

The basement of the house is like a full apartment, will all the strappings, two bedrooms, a laundry room, a kitchen, bathroom, a small closet that leads into a Panic Room and the living room. The hallway leads back to the bedrooms and passed the closet, and is seperated from the living room by a picture window like hole, big enough for me to lay on when I was living there and stretch out fully. Since I'm 5'11, you get the point about how long it is, and it's probably about half my height wide.

the basement apartment leads out a door into a small entry where you can either go left to the stairs up to the top floor, or straight, through two other doors out into the garage. The garage goes (or course) through another door out into a small sheltered enclosure between the two side stairs.

So much for the pre-story. I have the nervous habit of always closing and locking my door, so, as i had done years before and will ever do, I locked my door that night and crawled into bed. My friend was sleeping up against the wall by the time that I snuggled up with her back to back and closed my eyes, drifting into a deep and dreamless sleep.

I woke, at 3:43 exactly, staring straight ahead and into the glaring red numbers of my alarm clock, and was about to go back to sleep with an annoyed grunt when I noticed that the door was open to my room. I am a light sleeper, and if my friend would have gotten up and gone out the door, leaving it open, I would have woken up because she had to crawl over top of me to get out of the bed. I was about to nudge her awake when I heard someone moving around out in the main rooms and she woke up of her own volition. We lay there, completely scared out of our minds as shadows dances around on the wall that could be seen through the open door.

Then something started laughing. It sounded like the gleeful laughter of my five year old cousin, and there was the sound of something hitting the floor with a tha-thunk like a basketball. It was about that time that I decided that I wanted to get up and close the door. So I crept out of the bed, with Crystal clutching my back when our feet hit the carpet, and we tiptoed to the door together. we both tried that door, both pushing as hard as we could do quietly and neither one of us could get it to close. I will admit that I am not that strong, but I am strong enough to pin a full grown man in an elbow lock and break his arm if I need to, I am strong enough to close a door.But I couldn't.

Anyway. We got to the door, and the laughing moved away from us as we got closer to it, even though it was in the other room. Despite Crystal's protests, I got her to go with me out into the hallway, and with her hiding behind me, we met my cat, standing in the center of the hall, fur sticking straight up, with wide glowing eyes, for the first time in my life she hissed at me and then she turned and ran toward the door that lead out of the basement.

To make a long and terrifying trip short, we walked down the hall, through the kitchen and through the doors that were open when they had been closed and locked by myself before going to bed, outside into the cool March night. The whole way, following the laughing and ball bouncing and running sounds of a five year old boy. we saw plenty of shadows, but no person. We followed it up to a partial fence that is up near the south side of the yard, away from the house. The laughing faded away up there. We ran back into the house...
And didn't sleep for weeks after that, though the little boy didn't come back again until the last time I slept at their house.

As for fact? I talked to the neighbors and I got the land deed about two months later after another incident happened in the basement, and all the neighbors told me this story. The family that lived there before the ones that sold us the house, the original builders of the house, had moved out after one day when the father was outside, having set up a box of some sort against the fence, he began shooting at it for target practice. It wasn't until he moved the box to put it back into the shed that he found his son crumpled up in the bottom of it with his ball. All the neighbors that had lived there long enough to know about it said that the kid must have crawled into the box while his father was inside loading the gun. The little boy was shot right in the head. There are still bullet holes in the fence from the target practice sessions.

Along with this story I have a request. If anyone can think of a way to help out a little five year old ghost that was killed by his father, please tell me. I would like to get the little guy on his way, I feel sad for anything that would have to endure that silence of my parents house for long. Maybe I will tell you about the older man who I haven't been able to get a name for, or a story for that also resides in our basement. I am more concerned about him. He is a great deal more threatening it feels like.

That is the scariest, likewise, the saddest story.

Have you tried contacting the little boy? If you do that, you should try telling him that he is dead, and that he can go home to his family...if they're dead now as well. Unfortunately, if you contact him you will likely also contact the older man at the same time. If you say things alluding to the fact that you are aware of their presence, and just talk to them to try to calm them down when they have you a little scared...they might get used to it and become pesky and attention hogs. Remember to tell them that they are not living anymore, that they can rest now.

If that doesn't work, I would say move out. Ghosts are tricky and are often put into a dormancy rather than leaving altogether.

I recommend trying the ghost trap! (http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/Arena/7451/images/aarontrap.jpg)

I'd stay away from proton packs, however.... they can get a bit tricky. Particularly when you cross beams from other proton pack users.

Anything that anyone else can think of? I am completely serious about these attacks and my mother told me that they have been hearing things in the basement crashing into the walls lately, they don't see anything moved when they go down there, but I trust my mom not to be telling me falsehoods, mostly because she doesn't believe in spectors.

Dark Eyed Beauty - We tried contacting the child using a board and a few of my close friends that seem open to the concept. Living in the bible belt of Minnesota it is hard to find people willing to believe in spirits of this nature. In the middle of the session, another presence manifested itself, which I will give a brief synopsis of now.

I didn't see this manifestation that night, as I had moved from the circle to go upstairs to deal with my mother who just got home and wondered why I was in the basement with five of my various friends from school in the middle of the night. But the account that I got from the five, when I talked to them all later seperately and together is this. (P.S. I trust they aren't leading me astray)

Moments after I had left the basement, the indicator on the board began to move, as it hadn't been before I left. (they joked with me later that it was because the spirit was too scared of me to talk with me there) They don't remember if the indicator spelled out any words, but they all remember that it was sliding toward the edge of the board as though it were trying to get off of it. At one point, all of them but for my friend Dustin had their fingers off the indicator and it was still moving. I don't know about all your experiences with Uigi boards, but the few times I've used them, I have never had something like that happen. It may be possible but I am not sure.

After the board started screwing around, all of them have told me that they all got a queasy sickened feeling and it started to get really cold in the room they were in. One of the girls, (who is sort of weak stomached) got up and ran to the bathroom which is just around a wall, though because there is an open picture window, it's not in another room or anything like that. She said that the moment she turned around the wall and her feet hit the kitchen tile, she felt better and it was warm again. Dustin said that the feelings lasted for about ten minutes and then subsided.

The last feelings, I have actually felt before and I term it as this. Cold, sickening, emotions are touched by the sensations. In other words, if you are angry already, going into the room makes you livid. I remember the worst fights in that room with my mother when I was still living at him, it is as though the negative feelings are increased.

My brother, when I asked if he had any experiences in the basement, told me that he thought he was just drunk but he remembered seeing a tall man with black hair and shadowed eyes wearing a red plaid shirt and tattered jeans with work boots on glaring at him in the living room when he came home one night. he said that he saw the guy when he walked into the kitchen, sitting on the couch, and when he stepped into the living room to investigate, the man was gone. Thinking that he had hallucinated, he just ignored it and hadn't thought about it again until I had talked to him that day.

Whether you believe me or not. There you go.

I would like to get the little guy on his way,

elaborate.

Well I know that there have been instances that people have been able to contact a presence like this and kindly ask it to vacate, or help it along it's way to wherever it should be. The child doesn't seem to be violent or hurtful, just confused, sad, maybe even a little unmindful of what has happened to him. Or else it could just be a lingering impression of the violence that was committed. I just would like to know if there is anyway to find out which it is. Or if there is a way to give the boy a stepping stone onward or someplace if it is actually a spectre.

Originally posted by FerretQueenDaphni
Anything that anyone else can think of? ... and my mother told me that they have been hearing things in the basement crashing into the walls lately, they don't see anything moved when they go down there,

I was kidding about the ghost trap. You have to admit it was humorous... that is if you've ever seen Ghostbusters.

But I would recommend a good rat trap.

I bet you simply have an intrusion of rodents. Call an exterminator and have them inspect. I bet they'll find droppings and gnaw marks. I used to have roof rats at an apartment I once rented.. it sounded like a party going on in the ceiling and walls.

Whatever you do... whatever you believe.... don't pay anyone to come channel, excorcise, or to conduct any other hocus pocus... they're many people who are out there to take your money and will show you some "proof" that they are needed. You won't be able to get rid of them. Whether ghosts are real or not is irrelevant. I do know that con artists are real and waiting for opportunity.

Try Orkin first... they have a warranty.

I guess that the best way is to try to put yourself in his situation, if he is aware then there is something after death, then there has to be a solution, there has to be something he can do. If you could contact him somehow; tell him to be honest and that his father is there to teach him something as is the boy to teach his father something, the two has to help eachother.

One way to see it is:
Since the father shot him he is feeling guilty, and since his father shouldn't feel guilty about it the boy feels guilty since he is (in his mind) the cause of his father's guilt.

This results in a feeling of meaninglessness, which prohibits them to do anything about it. I want to scream it to them; "There is more!!", they aren't alone, they have to find the way out! The only way is to be honest to eachother, it isn't easy when the feeling of meaninglessness have taken overhand. Don't try to fool death, death fools you. There's allways a way out, but the most obvious way may be wrong or it may be right, being honest you don't need to find the "obvious" way, you've got to find the true way, the "obvious" part comes later.

That's what I think anyway...if you are going to contact the boy (or his father) then you have to put it in "if this is your situation then...", not just tell them to do things.


Maybe that wasn't the answer you were looking for, but it's the best I can come up with.

I bet you simply have an intrusion of rodents. Call an exterminator and have them inspect. I bet they'll find droppings and gnaw marks. I used to have roof rats at an apartment I once rented.. it sounded like a party going on in the ceiling and walls.

I don't think that rodents sound like a young human child Skin Walker. ;)

As for the rest of it, I was trying to find the father this last week, the father or the mother or some part of the family that was left remaining, but apparently after the child was killed, the mother died about two months later, one of those died of a broken heart things they said *shrugs*

The father was killed in a car accident about a year later. That was all the family the boy had, at least that I can get a handle on.

Something about this doesn't quite ring true with me.

At best, I think you're mistaken. At worst, I fear you may be making the whole thing up.

Think what you like James. :) The wonderful part about this is that, I -know- there are people out there who aren't going to believe me, and I -know- because I live in Minnesota, where people are about as open minded as a boulder beneath four inches of concrete. I know my truth. You know yours. If it isn't enough proof for my sincerity that the only thing I have requested is help, then that's alright.

But honestly, if you live close enough to Minnesota I'd be happy to give you a tour of the house and grounds and I am sure I can talk my parents into letting you spend a month there. I'm sure a month or less can prove my honesty or dishonesty, whatever it is that you want proven.

It as at least as likely for a rodent to sound like a human child as is the existance of "ghosts" and "spirits."

I have heard cats make sounds that are uncannily similar to that of a child, particularly when they are quarreling among themselves.

Why do you believe you have a dead person "living" in your home? What evidence do you have that such things can exist outside of tall tales and mythology?

I'm always fascinated by the willingness of people to believe, so I ask these questions out of that fascination... not to be critical.

Well, let's work through this. Are you willing to consider the possibility that you <b>haven't</b> seen a ghost?

Let's take your second post first, since it is easier to deal with.

<i>my mother told me that they have been hearing things in the basement crashing into the walls lately, they don't see anything moved when they go down there...</i>

This is a second-hand report. You don't know exactly what the sounds were which your mom heard, so you assume they are the same kinds of things you've heard. That may or may not be true. These sounds could be many things apart from ghosts. Water pipes can make sounds. So can mice. So can expansion and contraction of metal objects under varying temperatures. There are many other possibilities.

<i>We tried contacting the child using a board and a few of my close friends that seem open to the concept.</i>

In other words, you have a group of people who <b>want</b> to believe in ghosts and spirits. Not the kind of people who are in the best position to take an objective look at things.

<i>But the account that I got from the five, when I talked to them all later seperately and together is this. (P.S. I trust they aren't leading me astray)</i>

I wouldn't necessarily be so sure. I think that <b>they</b> probably also believe that certain things happened, so I'm not saying they have lied to you. But you can't take everything they say at face value, because there's no way to verify that what they have told you is true or accurate.

<i>Moments after I had left the basement, the indicator on the board began to move, as it hadn't been before I left.</i>

It is not unusual for this to happen. In fact, in most sceanes, the indicator moves quite a lot, apparently with nobody consciously willing it. In fact, though, people are subconsciously pushing it around.

<i>They don't remember if the indicator spelled out any words, but they all remember that it was sliding toward the edge of the board as though it were trying to get off of it.</i>

I've had that happen to me, when I was the only person touching the thing. It was very freaky at the time, but now I understand that <b>I</b> was actually pushing the thing, even though I thought I wasn't.

<i>At one point, all of them but for my friend Dustin had their fingers off the indicator and it was still moving.</i>

I'm sorry, but I just don't buy this part. It is based on hearsay from your friends. I think they've exaggerated the story to make it sound more impressive to you. I'd really push them on this if you want to find the truth.

<i>I don't know about all your experiences with Uigi boards, but the few times I've used them, I have never had something like that happen. It may be possible but I am not sure.</i>

I'm betting it never happened.

<i>After the board started screwing around, all of them have told me that they all got a queasy sickened feeling and it started to get really cold in the room they were in.</i>

This kind of thing is also common in sceanes. It's all to do with the power of suggestion and people's minds. If one person suggests to the others that it is getting cold, suddenly everybody will start concentrating on that, and agree it is getting cold. It's group psychology at work - nothing more. Same with the queasiness.

<i>My brother, when I asked if he had any experiences in the basement, told me that he thought he was just drunk but he remembered seeing a tall man with black hair and shadowed eyes wearing a red plaid shirt and tattered jeans with work boots on glaring at him in the living room when he came home one night.</i>

Have you considered that perhaps he <b>was</b> just drunk?

<i>Whether you believe me or not. There you go.</i>

You should look at why you believe it.

Perfectly fine for someone to not believe. Hell, I don't believe in god, why should I expect everyone to believe in spirits and spectors or anything like that.

What lets me believe in it, is that I know that there are a great many things out there, that are unexplainable, no matter the rational interest into the topic. I believe in fate, the joining of people with bindings below the surface and intertwining us together. The things that I have seen in my life, and the things that I have been able to have the honour to interact with, have all opened my mind to the ideals that there is something happening below the surface of the tangible and touchable. Skin and surface are all well and good, but the meat, the blood, the things that we can not see, are the things that are the more interesting and more unbelieveable. I consider myself rational enough that when I hear a bump, or a crash or a rattle at the door, a creak of the floor above me when no one is home, I will immediately think to myself; cat...wind...house shifting. My first thoughts aren't; ghost...phantasm...pull out my uigi board.

What you believe, what I believe, they could be two different things, they could be from different worlds and different philosophies. But this is what I believe, and this is for Skin and James. I believe in the world beyond that which you can see, it is there and it has always been there. I believe in my family and my friends, (for your doubting James) whether they are merely hearing/seeing things, I will not have it infered that they are lying or leading me astray on what they see or hear or experience. I would not want them to doubt me, I will not doubt them. I am resonably intelligent, which means that I will not take their word without understanding that there is a margin for human error. But I will take their word, that it is what they are finding is the case. So, for the rest of the conversation if you would please not infer that my closest loved ones are lying to me that would be great. Thanks.

I believe that if you are quiet and listen, that the past can come back to you in the form of vivid memory. I believe that people, while we live, we leave an impression on this world in the things that we loved and the places that we were most at home. I believe that those people that are open enough to it can catch it and will know that is what they get when they feel it. Good or bad. I believe that if you sit, and are open, you can feel the people around you, their peace, their aura, you can feel the sea of humanity that on a regular basis goes unknown and unfelt.

As for spirits and spectors, since I don't believe in heaven or hell, I can not say that I believe they are waiting to go to either, but I know that being caught on this earth is not the end game. I think that it can happen. I know it can happen. I love my family, I love my friends, and the other people that I love, I love them so damned much, that when I die, I -know- I will try my hardest to stay, to linger and touch their faces at night, whisper in their ears and wrap around them while they sleep. I will forever linger here and make sure that I can see them grow and blossom and flourish. It lets me believe that I will not be gone from their lives.

Believe me or not, it is what I believe. You have your faiths, your true inspirations, you have your gods or your visions or your nightmares, your truths, your plausible provable logic. And I will have mine.

paranormal beings such as spectres, E.T.'s, etc really freak me out when talked about by real people, *quiver* its fine for me in movies but not on a computer haha, *shiver* ok well this was a peice of my wonderful mind... :D

Originally posted by FerretQueenDaphni
I don't believe in god, why should I expect everyone to believe in spirits and spectors or anything like that. ...

I believe in fate,...

something happening below the surface of the tangible and touchable...

the things that we can not see, are the things that are the more interesting and more unbelieveable.

I believe in the world beyond that which you can see, it is there and it has always been there...

since I don't believe in heaven or hell, I can not say that I believe they are waiting to go to either, but I know that being caught on this earth is not the end game...

when I die, I -know- I will try my hardest to stay, to linger and touch their faces at night, whisper in their ears and wrap around them while they sleep. I will forever linger here and make sure that I can see them grow and blossom and flourish. It lets me believe that I will not be gone from their lives...

It appears to me that you are motivated by the things that motivate those that cling to beliefs of god and religion: the fear of dying; the fear of it all coming to an end.

The fact is, there is no reason to believe that humans have a soul, spirit or consciousness that does anything but cease to exist in death.

Most people and most cultures of the world have evolved to explain this in some fashion or another... reincarnation, eternal salvation, planes of existance.... but the only credibility that proponents have ever been able to muster is John Edwards. And even he's failed to demonstrate that he has any real talent beyond a decent ability at a cold read.

Originally posted by FerretQueenDaphni
Believe me or not, it is what I believe. You have your faiths, your true inspirations, you have your gods or your visions or your nightmares, your truths, your plausible provable logic. And I will have mine.

Of that much I've no doubt. I can only say that if your beliefs are working for you, more power to you. Personally, I think the world would be much better off if people would just come to grips with the idea that this is it. You get no other chance at a life. Then people would live each day like it counted. People say they do, but they don't. That's the lie they tell themselves because in the backs of their minds, they're sure they get another chance somewhere, somehow. Life just simply isn't viewed to be as precious as it should. That's what I believe.

FerretQueenDaphni:

<i>What let's me believe in it, is that I know that there are a great many things out there, that are unexplainable, no matter the rational interest into the topic.</i>

That's where you and I differ. I don't think there is anything out there which is ultimately unexplain<b>able</b> - just things which are so far unexplain<b>ed</b>. See the difference?

<i>I believe in fate, the joining of people with bindings below the surface and intertwining us together. The things that I have seen in my life, and the things that I have been able to have the honour to interact with, have all opened my mind to the ideals that there is something happening below the surface of the tangible and touchable.</i>

What you call "fate", I call "coincidence". Yes, people are connected in subtle ways, but not in paranormal ways. Yes, things happen below the surface with people, in the subconscious and in their private thoughts, but there are no mystical forces guiding these things, as far as I can tell.

<i>I consider myself rational enough that when I hear a bump, or a crash or a rattle at the door, a creak of the floor above me when no one is home, I will immediately think to myself; cat...wind...house shifting. My first thoughts aren't; ghost...phantasm...pull out my uigi board.</i>

My <b>second</b> thoughts aren't ghost, phantasm etc. :)

<i>I believe in the world beyond that which you can see, it is there and it has always been there.</i>

Why? Based on experience and anecdote, I assume.

<i>I believe in my family and my friends, (for your doubting James) whether they are merely hearing/seeing things, I will not have it infered that they are lying or leading me astray on what they see or hear or experience.</i>

Even unwittingly? I'm not saying they are deliberately dishonest, necessarily.

<i>I am resonably intelligent, which means that I will not take their word without understanding that there is a margin for human error.</i>

I suspect you don't appreciate just how wide that margin is.

<i>I believe that if you are quiet and listen, that the past can come back to you in the form of vivid memory.</i>

Great. So do I. But only in your mind.

<i>I believe that people, while we live, we leave an impression on this world in the things that we loved and the places that we were most at home. I believe that those people that are open enough to it can catch it and will know that is what they get when they feel it. Good or bad. I believe that if you sit, and are open, you can feel the people around you, their peace, their aura, you can feel the sea of humanity that on a regular basis goes unknown and unfelt.</i>

That's a great warm and fuzzy feeling you have there, but is it verifiable or testable? I don't think so.

<i>As for spirits and spectors, since I don't believe in heaven or hell, I can not say that I believe they are waiting to go to either, but I know that being caught on this earth is not the end game. I think that it can happen. I know it can happen.</i>

How can you be so sure?

<i>I love my family, I love my friends, and the other people that I love, I love them so damned much, that when I die, I -know- I will try my hardest to stay, to linger and touch their faces at night, whisper in their ears and wrap around them while they sleep. I will forever linger here and make sure that I can see them grow and blossom and flourish. It lets me believe that I will not be gone from their lives.</i>

What if it just isn't possible? Wishing doesn't always make it so.

<i>Believe me or not, it is what I believe. You have your faiths, your true inspirations, you have your gods or your visions or your nightmares, your truths, your plausible provable logic. And I will have mine.</i>

Fine. Sometimes it can be good to question your strongest beliefs. It's always confronting to do so, and some people prefer never to do it. Others continually question themselves, in the hope that they will come out wiser for the experience.

I have no qualms with believing that each day could be the end. I live and I love as I can, and I offer all that I can to the world around me for that very reason. What I think of as life after death is not termed that in my head. There is -no- life after death. There is only what lies beyond. Life is life. That is all. You can not duplicate or transcend it. You get one shot and as much as you see me as someone that fears death and hides behind my outdated ages old belief in the spirits that guide, I do know that. Do you live each day that when you lay down at night, you can close your eyes and know that you did not waste a second? Did you spare no expense of love, of heart? Were you pinned down by the world itself, by life itself to do things that were not enjoyement but toil? If you say that every facet of your life was a treasure of the moments you will be a liar. No one can know how many seconds pass them by until they are dead and look back on the days that they filled. We live, we hurt, and we carry on as though it was nothing more than a pin prick.

Most peoples and most cultures have come to rationalise the unknown in some way or another, but I find it amusing that no matter what the rationale, there is always, in every race, creed, culture, nationality, people; there are the dreamers and the believers and the understanders of the fantastical. If someone wasn't there saying; there is more, who would have produced the music, the art, the literature and the beauty in this world. Everyone questions their life. Everyone wonders what is beyond the veil. To live and die, to live again, to die in lifetimes beyond, to forget what was once done and to do it again. To live and die and find that magickal release of god or the pain of eons of hell. Whoever you are, wherever you are, at some point you question. You can say you don't, you can say that you are perfectly serene with the ideal of death. But when it comes to your door, you can not tell me that you will not have the moment of panic, that you will not have a thought during your life, wondering what will become of you in the forever that lies beyond.

I think, I know, I believe that the world would be better if people would understand that it is -okay- to wonder if there is more. It is -okay- to question what lies beyond. It is -fine- that there are dreamers and hopers and see'ers that want to find visions in silence and spirits in life. Instead of looking at life and seeing the moments that I have missed, have wasted, I want to look back and know that I was not complacent with my ideals, I dreamed and I believed. As for what happens after I die. It will be nothing compared to life, Not a shred. But It will be my chance to watch my family, even from a distance. If I am wrong and I go directly to hell without passing go, I will face that when I come to it. Until then....

Sorry, James, you posted while I was. As for the rest of it. You can believe of my understanding of all of this what you want, you have that option. You don't have that right, as you don't know me well enough to say, that I may not understand the margin, or my touchy feely cosy notions. But free speech and all of that gives a wide open harbour for your words.

(Also I have to add that I have been misspelling a word through my posts, pointed out by my friend Kris. Ouija. *facepalms* Seriously I -did- know how to spell it, it just seemed to get shortened and mutilated through the posting process. And or I had a stupid moment My greatest apologies..)

Ouija. *facepalms* Seriously I -did- know how to spell it, it just seemed to get shortened and mutilated through the posting process. And or I had a stupid moment My greatest apologies..)
Thats alright... JamesR kept misspelling seances...

I still think its rats. :D

That is a really interesting story......incedentally, were is this place because I would love to visit it......can you tell me?

It's in Minnesota Guyute, and if you haven't gathered, :D It's my parent's house, so... you probably wouldn't be able to just stroll on up and ask my mom if you could ghost hunt in her basement. Like I said, if you live close enough I'd be happy to give a tour of the grounds, after you've gone through the long bloodletting process of me deciding you aren't a creepy internet psycho :P

Don't be discouraged, Daphni. No matter what anyone around might say of you, it is very difficult for any person to take authority on something they have not immidietly experienced. Therefore, those who do not believe you express only their opinions, not what they or anyone else can validate and document.

I'll say that there is however, no way to validate your claim from an impirical point of view AT THIS TIME. However, when one says that everything is in pricipal testable in physical reality, they are making a self supporting argument. Can one PROVE that everything in the world is testable and explainable ultimately? Obviously not, since no human being has an onipotent point of view from which to make that judgement. Therefore, the claim that all is testable is in itself an untestable, unproveable philosophy.

There are lots of interesting things in this world which science cannot currently explain. Who is to say if it will ever be able to or not? Science is still limited by the human senses, no matter how advanced they might be compared to previous animals.

Originally posted by FerretQueenDaphni
It's in Minnesota Guyute, and if you haven't gathered, :D It's my parent's house, so... you probably wouldn't be able to just stroll on up and ask my mom if you could ghost hunt in her basement. Like I said, if you live close enough I'd be happy to give a tour of the grounds, after you've gone through the long bloodletting process of me deciding you aren't a creepy internet psycho :P




HAHAHAHA......Nah, I am not a internet psycho. Plus I live in connecticut, so, it is a great distance away:rolleyes:. Thats a funny image though, walking through your house...lol...your parents, I have done that before with my friends parents and they were like"What the Hell"...lol.......Well, good luck with your gastely friend, try a siance or a ouije board. Mabye just try to talk with the spirit, invite it into the room? It seems to me like it isnt very ill natured. Good Luck.



If i am ever in Minnasota I will give you a call:p

Peace,

-Guyute

Originally posted by Xevious


There are lots of interesting things in this world which science cannot currently explain. Who is to say if it will ever be able to or not? Science is still limited by the human senses, no matter how advanced they might be compared to previous animals.

Wise words ;) Thank you and I agree whole heartedly.

Guyute: If you ever are in Minnesota and you give me a call, I will be -sure- that you are an internet psycho. :D Thanks.

Hmmm...I have been branded....it was only a joke.:( :( :(

And I was only being sarcastic. No harm meant, none taken, all is well in the city of love....erm...or snow.

:rolleyes: ok, good, Well good luck anyways. I wish I could experiance a visitation as good as your's. Have fun with it.


Peace,

-Guyute

I mis-spelled "seances" because I'm so used to typing "sciences". And yes, I noticed before, along with the spelling of "Ouija".

I generally don't correct people's spelling on sciforums (including my own), unless they actually use the wrong word and it alters the meaning of what they are saying. Everybody makes typos.

Relax.... I was just trying to make the gal feel a little welcome :cool:

It didn't quite seem fair us both teaming up on her.... :D

Hi there,

Try contacting your local spiritualist church. A medium will know what to do. :)

Heres a true story that happened recently in NZ.

A large retail department store was built over an old railway station site.
There was a huge turnover of staff who reported odd things at night whilst stacking shelves etc.
It turns out that a little girl was killed in a shunting accident on the site of the old station, and was hanging around.
Anyway, the council brought in the local minister and a few others and sent her on her way. There is no activity now.

The hard part about living where I live, is that the people around here are so hardened against anything like this happening, it makes it difficult to find allies, moreover people that are knowledgable in the means of spiritual activity. For people around here, god is in his heaven and all souls go to him. That and a strict dislike for anything that borders on different. Good suggestion however, thank you..

And SkinWalker, thank you for making me feel welcome, I did feel a little crushed against the alter of my beliefs between you and James. But it's all good.

James, in no way is this a chastise, but I just feel like I have to suggest a little bit of chilling on that forceful stubbornness I sense? If the world was black and white, don't you think you'd miss the shades of gray?

Not every critical thinker here is going to chasize you, Daphani. Why don't you go look at the "PseudoScience" forum sometime? I post in there more often and I get the feeling that is right up your alley.

FerretQueenDaphni:

Too often, I see people wasting valuable portions of their lives with stuff which is just not supportable. It's not that I am stubborn and set in my ways, so that I'm not open to new ideas. That is an easy accusation to make against a skeptic, and one which is delivered almost as a matter of course by believers.

The thing is, the balance of reliable evidence simply does not support the existence of things such as ghosts. It can be difficult to explain individual cases, but that difficulty is <b>always</b> a result of lack of information and remoteness from the scene, in my experience. Whenever these things are checked out properly, they are found to have mundane explanations. Either people are mistaken, or they are lying, or there's some explanation which was not obvious to anybody until skilled investigators took a look.

I'm fairly confident that none of this will sway you at all. You'll go away still believing I am blind to the truth, closed-minded etc. etc. You saw what you saw, and you couldn't possibly have been mistaken in your interpretation of your experiences, could you?

I see people wasting valuable portions of their lives with stuff which is just not supportable.

I'm fairly confident that none of this will sway you at all. You'll go away still believing I am blind to the truth, closed-minded etc. etc. You saw what you saw, and you couldn't possibly have been mistaken in your interpretation of your experiences, could you?

Is it up to you James, to save the world from the "irrationality" of others? Who may I ask put you in charge of that, and how does your point of view have the philosophical superiority to merit you the right to engage in thought policing? I don't think I need to remind you of the times the scientific community was not only wrong but arrogantly dismissive of the claims of the masses.

When one says that everything is in pricipal testable in physical reality, they are making a self supporting argument. Can one PROVE that everything in the world is testable and explainable ultimately? Obviously not, since no human being has an onipotent point of view from which to make that judgement. Therefore, the claim that all is testable is in itself an untestable, unproveable philosophy.

In the end James, no one really has the right to speak with authority on anything outside their immidiate experience. This lady is claiming to have the poka-dotted Dragon in her basement yes, but I don't see her charging admission, do you? She's never made the claim that this is direct proof of the existance of Ghosts, has she? For that matter, is she putting her life on hold while she deals with this? You nor anyone else is uniquely qualified to make the judgements you have made. To believe otherwise is truly arrogance.

Xevious:

<i>Is it up to you James, to save the world from the "irrationality" of others?</i>

No, but if I can help in some small way I would consider that a good thing.

<i>Who may I ask put you in charge of that, and how does your point of view have the philosophical superiority to merit you the right to engage in thought policing?</i>

There's no thought policing happening here. All I have done is suggested an alternative way of looking at things. I'm trying to stimulate discussion, not shut it down.

Also, I have never claimed philosophical superiority, whatever that may be.

<i>I don't think I need to remind you of the times the scientific community was not only wrong but arrogantly dismissive of the claims of the masses.</i>

Who said scientists are perfect?

<i>When one says that everything is in pricipal testable in physical reality, they are making a self supporting argument. Can one PROVE that everything in the world is testable and explainable ultimately?</i>

No.

<i>Obviously not, since no human being has an onipotent point of view from which to make that judgement. Therefore, the claim that all is testable is in itself an untestable, unproveable philosophy.</i>

I agree completely.

<i>In the end James, no one really has the right to speak with authority on anything outside their immidiate experience.</i>

I disagree. It is not necessary to experience something directly to have an informed opinion about it. I don't need to drink hydrochloric acid to know that it would be harmful to do so, and I think I would be quite justified in warning somebody who was about to have a drink of it not to do so.

<i>This lady is claiming to have the poka-dotted Dragon in her basement yes, but I don't see her charging admission, do you? She's never made the claim that this is direct proof of the existance of Ghosts, has she?</i>

No. I am more concerned for her personal development than for any negative effects her story may have on other people.

<i>For that matter, is she putting her life on hold while she deals with this? You nor anyone else is uniquely qualified to make the judgements you have made. To believe otherwise is truly arrogance.</i>

I have not claimed to be uniquely qualified in any sense here. I have merely applied my own experience and knowledge towards coming up with what I consider to be a reasonable working hypothesis, given the information with which I have been presented so far. I'm not stopping anybody from viewing the matter differently.

Which judgments of mine do you think are particularly arrogant and dismissive here? I am interested to know.

I see people wasting valuable portions of their lives with stuff which is just not supportable.

Whenever these things are checked out properly, they are found to have mundane explanations.

I don't think there is anything out there which is ultimately unexplainable - just things which are so far unexplained

Yes, people are connected in subtle ways, but not in paranormal ways.

Either people are mistaken, or they are lying, or there's some explanation which was not obvious to anybody until skilled investigators took a look.

These are just a few examples, but in all of these your sentence strucure is defenitive. These are all claims or better worded, presented as fact - statements. Maybe I'm misinterpriting you and if so I apoligize, but the way you worded these statements is very authoritive.

If I'm totally misreading you I apoligize greatly, but it just seems to be so.

Xevious:

It's just my opinion. Any authority read into it comes from somewhere else. On the other hand, I have looked into paranormal phenomena quite extensively - certainly enough to form an informed opinion on many of them.

If you like, add "I think that..." or "In my experience ..." or "According to what I know..." to the start of all those parts you quoted sections. Of course, I think that should be understood as added to everything anybody posts on sciforums.

Fair enough, James. Again, apoligies if I was too heavy handed.

Hmmm, an interesting story.

From my understanding, Ouji boards are a bad way to go. You wont learn anything and the thing playing on the other side of it is usually not nice. You should try finding out who that man could be.

I have had 2 experiences somewhat like that.

number 1, blue mountain, canada.

Driving up blue mountain, its a ski resort as well as a community.

We kept driving and driving and we got stuck in the snow eventually. We passed a road and to me it looked as if something was hopping on the side of the road. Once we got stuck we started turning the car around and passed that same road. I had 3 friends in the car and they all just felt something bad following them.

They told me to go faster. Now, this was in january, going down a snowy mountain road. The temperature was perfect (coincidence) for the car not to slide. We could've just slide off the side of the road off the cliff but we had to get off that mountain really quick.

Whatever was there was pissed that we had passed.

I just couldnt feel it :(.

But we made it away, down the mountain and the thing still kept following us. No matter how fast i went, it was always the same distance away and all my friends were scared.

My one friend had this weird growling thing going on, he claims to have a beast inside of him that sometimes comes out.

We all made it home safely and the thing eventually stopped following us at the city limits ( i think)

Story number 2

Lots of friends at my big house. We were all in the basement and we moved into a huge open space inside the basement. My friends looked around and said that they could see 3d movies going on in the pictures on the wall. They saw and felt some of the walls, something about a gateway and different pillars.

Somebody had to be driven home and they asked me to do it because they wanted to get a feel for the place without me around. I left, i had a really bad feeling about leaving my friends in that place (not just because there were like 4 teens in my home, but something different), so i raced to his home and then my home. And when i got back my fear in the pit of my stomach dissapeared.

The candles were lit, and my friend dawn was on one side of them, and surrounding the candles were my other 3 friends. My friend richie was talking to dawn, back and forth something about having to die, and a canvas being wiped clean. She snnuffed out the candles and the room went dark. I looked at my friend matt, richie and kevin and i could see them fine. I looked at dawn and all i saw was a dark outline of her, her 2 arms, and 1 extra black arm that was reaching to the ground while the other one was reaching towards the candles.

I looked to a pillar behind me and between it and the wall and i saw these 2 huge blue eyes in the shape of a tigers just looking back at me. My friend dawn has a friend or familiar maybe thats a big tiger.

Richie tried to touch her arm later in the night, and my friends were partially paralyzed to the spot. One person was completely paralyzed, the others only partly. Then richie said something about " the cavalary arriving" and that something else had entered the room.

I tried to touch dawn and she hissed at me, and richie told me to touch her and once i did the other 3 were released.

So i held on to her and she fought me for a while struggling while the others tried to help. She talked to me and told me i had a choice, i could let in whatever was in her and save her, but i said, no way. I couldnt have helped her if something else had been in me and besides, i was about to be my family's only child, without my knowing.

Richie touched her and he got very very sick a few days later.

Eventually we were told by something talking to kevin to go out in a specific order and that everything would be better then.

I and matt went out, he felt like he was being held down by something once he got outside and he told me to get away from him. I waited and waited but i went inside and that seemed to have broken whatever opportunity we had. So everybody got outside of the house and went home, whatever was in her talked to me and said you failed, and that dawn was going to die.
'

She's fine, havent had a reoccurance of anything like that in a while but it really puts you in touch with difficult situations. Do not get caught up in trying to rationalize it, you'll just delude yourself into believing it never happened.

I've also had friends over and they just feel ghosts, or something in the darkness that they cant quite make out.

I've seen balls of light dancing around the room once, not very vividly.

Thats about it for me.